All they want is the Harlem Globetrotters

By Tony Attwood

“Many fans will only remember success because that’s the only reason they started supporting them in the first place.”

That comment came from Phil Banyard of Nottingham Trent University who has studied the psychological effects of failure among fans.   He continued…

“It’s not much different to watching the Harlem Globetrotters – you go to be entertained every week and expect them to win at the end of it. You’re paying to watch a formulaic movie, where you know what the outcome is going to be.”

I’ve felt such an analysis was real for quite some time – and the feeling was particularly brought home to me in the League Cup match this season, where many people who don’t normally see Arsenal were able to get tickets.   The reaction of those around me, and indeed the report Drew gave me from the lower tier, suggested that the crowd on that occasion were specifically expecting the Globetrotters.

And that was earlier in the season when Arsenal were heading for top of the league – a position we held for much of the season.

Indeed it was as if someone had given them a video of Thierry Henry’s goals, and they had interpreted it not just as two or three minutes from each game, but how football actually looks in the flesh.

And when they found it wasn’t, they jeered.

I also think this Globetrotter analysis helps understand the action at least a bit of the action of a few people who call themselves supporters.  For it seems to me that writing to a blog to tell the publisher of the blog that he is an total idiot (or far worse) is a bit dumb – but it can be a venting of anger when one comes from the position Globetrotting position.

The Globetrotters don’t win so you write to a supporting blog and tell them what you think.

But then writing to the blog to tell the person you earlier called a total idiot to complain bitterly that your comment was not published, and that this non-publication of your commentary is proof that everything said in the blog is wrong, and that the editor is a fascist is, well, on another planet.

It is a bit like the man who goes to the doctor to complain about headaches.  The doctor asks, “what do you do all day?”

The man says, “I bang my head against a brick wall.”

The Doctor looks at him, gives him a full examination, and then says, “Best thing to do is stop banging your head against a brick wall.”

It is like that because if one feels that Untold is that awful, why do even click on the page?  Of course everyone is welcome to read, and as I have often admitted here, I do occasionally take a look at the Daily Mail, although only after a couple of preliminary paracetamol.

But to write in and complain about their stance, well…

I’m also reminded of the guy who wrote in this week saying that he had never read any evidence to suggest that Arsenal get a disproportionate amount of wrong referee decsisions.    Presumably the guy either hadn’t read many of the pieces with evidence in, or had read but had not thought it was evidence.

Now if that latter were the case the sensible thing to do would be to write in and explain why he thinks the evidence is flawed, with some examples.  Then we can have a debate.   But no, he just made the point and moved on to a diatribe against the site.

(Actually that reminds me of the Tottenham supporters who wrote in and said our analysis of their games was flawed because they hadn’t had a penalty all season.  That was amusing, as the whole point of the piece was that they hadn’t had a penalty all season and they should have done.  Sometimes there’s no way to remove the blinkers.)

Heads, brick walls…

However was has become clear in the last couple of months is that there is a real resolution within the plucky band of Arsenal supporters who actually go to games, and that has been good to see and hear.  It is as if we are closing ranks against the Globetrotters, and saying, this is what it really means to be a football supporter.  And we’ll be doing that tomorrow at Wembley just as we have been always.

I also think this awareness of what being a supporter is, is why I started writing the Anniversary Files on the AHS blog.  Getting on for 4000 dates are now recorded in the files, recording Arsenal’s past in a way that has never been done in such depth before.

Interestingly even such a mundane venture as that has been the subject of abuse from fans, those who rather than helping correct an error, which I suppose suggests that knocking anything that is done becomes a habit from which it is hard to escape.

So, yes, globetrotters.  I think that’s a fair analysis.


The full anniversary file is published on the Arsenal History Society blog

81 Replies to “All they want is the Harlem Globetrotters”

  1. Rubbish analogy. People expext a contest, not a sham Harlem Globetrotter spectacle. And Arsenal aren’t even giving a smidgeon of effort in the big matches. If the club is on the decline, you don’t ‘support’ the status quo, you kick up a stink. Which the majority of the support is now doing.

  2. Tony, do wander in here now and then to see your latest episdode of ‘Everyones fault but Arsene’s’ and how you justify the latest beating.

    I won’t disect your post today but can’t believe you have now moved to a position of patronising many sections of the ‘Arsenal family’. hard working, money paying supporters who you now have labelled as ‘Globetrotters’. This notion of someone being more an Arsenal fan than someone else is boring, left to the young and outdated given we have a huge global following also.

    Loks like you’ve adopted the TalkSport model here, saying stuff to get hits. It works, hats off to you but your credibility took a massivehit today with that patronising ‘my dicks bigger than yours’ post.

  3. It can indeed if we lift the FA cup but I think that will really only paper over the cracks of what has been another groundhog season. We’re just making the same mistakes, lacking mental strength and that transfer or two that will propel us to higher glories and for a club of our wealth it’s just not good enough.

    We’re still found wanting in the same areas. How does that get instilled in new players when we have an almost Yoda-like manager who prides himself on understanding the psychology of the game better than anyone. I genuinely don’t understand how that works. I think for the majority of fans it has nothing to do with trophies, it is about the club and manager deceiving us and their complete refusal to use the resources generated by the supporters to improve the playing squad. Going into the season with the striking options we did was unforgivable. Playing Giroud every game until he was knackered and Ramsay and Ozil until they were injured was retarded. The annual collapse that everybody in football predicted hurt more than ever considering the announcement of record commercial deals and the £140 million in the bank, more than all the other teams in the PL combined. Going from top in January to fighting for fourth in April- predictable but nonetheless sickening. The humiliations at City, Anfield, the dump across the river and Goodison, I don’t think I have even fully absorbed them yet.

    FA Cup or not this season has been a huge disappointment if you are an Arsenal fan. Of course for thiose who are Arsene FC fans, and there are many, it’s their job to paint it as a success.



  4. Hi there,

    I’m all for balanced views, but how someone can constantly find excuses for year on year of failure is beyond me?
    This is not an accident, this is not a one off. It happens every year. Every year we have the injuries, the excuses, the moaning at the refs, the inability to analyse the opposition, the playing of players out of position… it goes on and on.

    This is ARSENAL… Not Arsene’s club. Please stop defending him. Support your club, YES… but also want the best for it. Strive for the best. Are we doing that? NO.. we are selling the fanbase short every season. Millions to spend, but a total lack of ambition to compete.

    This year is the final straw for a lot of fans. This blog remains perhaps the only Pro-Wenger blog out there.

    I am not here to say your views are wrong, but you are certainly in the minority now Sir.

    Good day to you

  5. good work tony! 🙂

    Could I ask you two things? 1) what do you think the main reason that we went from contenders to strugglers for top four is? and 2) What are reasons that(your answer to 1) has happened?

  6. Maybe Ox thought he was playing for the Harlem Globetrotters when he handled the ball in the area. 🙂

  7. Thanks Mr. Attwood for your enlightening articles (especially in the last few days).

    The inordinate desire of our generation for a ready made (instant) success is the root of impatience as displayed by some ‘fans’ today.

    Fast food (junks), instant coffee, cash now, accelerated degrees, bottom line, results, etc…are all norms now. Even Christians of today quickly forgot that Abraham waited for 25 years for a ‘SURE/GUARANTEED’ promise of a child. Today, people seems not to be interested in ‘processes’. Just result/success at all cost (including morals and values).

    For me, Arsenal are just about entering into the era of harvests for the labours of the past 9 planting years. This is not the period to give up on AW.

    Why do teams need supporters? Simply because of times they won’t be able to stand alone. Now is such time.

    I am a supporter of The Arsenal, manager and players like UA. If you are one of us, stand up and be counted anywhere you are on this planet!

    Arsenal, let’s go for the kill tomorrow. Wigan be weary.


  8. I agree with some of the things Dwayne said most especially that of our strike force,as experience as Arsene is he goes into a season with one striker and we are competing in 4 competition,he always tells us Bendtner is good enough but the moment Sanogo came Bendtner is not good enough again,for Arsene to prefer a youngster from Ligue 2 tells d whole story. This whole striker scenario was quit clear for everyone to see from the start of the season but Arsene still refuse. I know Sanogo has the potential to come good someday but is he worth all gambling our season
    Over? Definitely not.

  9. Steiner, I can’t believe you actually expected your comment to be published.

    There am I writing a piece about the sadness of people who have nothing else to do other than abuse blog writers, and you reply by abusing the blog writer.

    There’s something wrong somewhere.

  10. Damilare – all good to write a post like that but in reality means nothing. Like Wenger press conference if you like.

    Processes – isnt 9 years a long enough ‘process’ for you?

    Again we (the majority of arsenal fans) feel the need to tell you that we are not asking for guarnteed success and trophies…we want the club to use their resources to compete, do everything a club can do to compete. You may be content with failure every season but knowing we can do better but choose not to try is criminal. Before you say it, no one is saying spend all the money. yes use the money to buy proper talent but look at your backroom credentials also, improve there, improve training sessions, tactics, stat guys, nutrition etc etc….there is so much more we can do than just buying players but we simply are not trying. Its the same old stuff every season and the result is the same.

  11. ME ! ME !ME ! Don’t the AAAA say the darnest things ?
    Tony , I think its time you have a simplified section for the slow readers on here. Maybe in cartoon form or … (slaps head !)..the Muppets to narrate .They’d surely will understand better ., or at the very least be quiet .

    Kids Just Think Differently

    I’m a huge fan of Bill Cosby’s old show: “Kids say the darnest things”. Because nothing can beat the innocence and inexperience of a child when it comes to funny lines. They sometimes say things that adult comedians would just never think of saying, and it’s all the more hilarious for it!

    “Close the curtains,” requested our 2 year old granddaughter, sitting in a pool of bright light. “The sun’s looking at me too hard.”

    My friend asked our grandson when he would turn 6. He replied, “When I’m tired of being 5.”

    Seeing her first hailstorm, Mary Sue, age 3, exclaimed, “Mommy, it’s raining dumplings!”

    As I frantically waved away a pesky fly with a white dishtowel, my granddaughter observed, “Maybe he thinks you’re surrendering.”

    A friend’s grandson, 4, was reading with his granddad about Adam and Eve. He asked, “Is this where God took out the man’s brain and made a woman?”

    Announcing to daughter Lori that her aunt just had a baby and it looked like her uncle, she said, “You mean he has a mustache?”

    When I asked our grandson if he could name the capital of Florida, he fired right back, “Capital F!”

    While shampooing our son, 4, I noted his hair was growing so fast he’d soon need it cut. He replied, “Maybe we shouldn’t water it so much.”

    My daughter told her 5-year-old that their van was going to be fixed. Instantly, the small fry assumed, “Oh, it’s going to the tire-o-practor?”

    Impressed by her 5-year-old’s vocabulary, my friend complimented the young scholar, who nonchalantly responded, ” I have words in my head I haven’t even used yet.”

    His Mom informed her son, Brian, that she was going outside to get a little sun. “But Mommy, he gulped, “You already have a son. Me!”

    When our son asked about two look-alike classmates at school, we told him they were probably twins. The next day, he came home from school all bubbly and said, “Guess what! They are not only twins….they’re brothers!!”

  12. Tony,
    Glad your plucky band will be at Wembley to offer all-out support, as many of us (not less plucky) will do likewise at our respective screens.

    This said, earlier this season you were trashing the FA cup as a has-been waste-of-resources etc. and pissed off about the inconvenient scheduling, etc. Now that you’ve come back to appreciating that it’s (AFC in FA C) somehow worth your time, I’ll conclude on a note that we both and all brands of AFC lovers can agree. From AW:

    “The great thing about the FA Cup is everyone can dream of winning it at the start of the season. In the championship [Premier League], only seven clubs can dream of winning it. Last year Wigan won the FA Cup, this year you have Sheffield United in the semifinal and that kind of dream, open to everybody, makes the competition special. In the championship you can talk and talk, but we know the biggest budget will win it; that open dream [of the FA Cup] is what makes this competition special in football.”
    CYOG – one heart, one love.

  13. The only reason some find the need to post on your blog is because you misrepresent Arsenal with your phony sanctimonious claptrap drivel and thus need to be corrected

  14. there is no greater feeling than holding a cup/medal. you hunger for more. that’s what will happen if we win this yrs FA Cup.

  15. I want to congratulate you writers at Untold Arsenal. It seems just about every article has comments where it appears the people only glanced at the headline, and skipped straight to abusing the club, Wenger and this website; or if they do bother read the article, it goes in one ear and out the other. Arleady several of the commenters here have completely missed the point of this article.

    Well done and keep up the good work supporting the club.

  16. Eemie

    You said, “This whole striker scenario was quit clear for everyone to see from the start”

    Quite true. What we saw from the start was that we had Podolski and Theo who could be strikers, with Sanogo coming through as a possibility, and Bendtner who could be used – and indeed was used. Sanogo’s problem was never his talent but his injury background, but as he got his strength back so he moved above Bendtner.

    Everything in football is a gamble, but the decision to go with Giroud (just try comparing his first two seasons at Arsenal with Henry’s in terms of goals scored) Theo, Podolksi, Sanogo and Bendtner was a perfectly legitimate call.

    Where we lost it was through having Ramsey, Walcott and Ozil injured at once. If one of them had stayed fit we would have been in a much better position.

    So the real issue is, why so many injuries. You will find the answer on this site.

  17. She wore – thank you for totally proving the point of my piece. Of course Untold is in the minority of blogs – although we tend to reflect the vast majority in the ground at each match. But every year has been the final straw – were you around four years ago for the “thrown my season ticket away” season?

    In terms of the Arsenal, and the club’s history, this has been a brilliant era, and continues to be so. So in that regard it is fine for Arsenal. (That’s not how I view it, but it seems to be how you view it in relation to the past).

  18. How do we view this era in relation to the past?

    Tony, I guess it depends on how you determine success over the longer period. Maybe you like Arsene value consistancy over the highs and lows that many football fans come to expect over the years. I can see the value of consistantly finishing in the top 4 with all the monetary benefits it brings but to me that’s all a bit souless. Over the years I’ve been happy to see the good times (league championships, cups etc.) and the bad times (finishing below Spurs, Ipswich, Southampton, even flirting briefly with relegation on occasion) knowing that this is all part of the ebb and flow of the game. This makes the good times feel all the better.

    I don’t worry that finishing in the top 4 will be a disaster, given a choice between that and the cup and I’d take the cup every time. Perhaps a year without CL football could benefit our league challenge as it has for Liverpool this season? What I’m saying is that perhaps it’s time those in charge of the club stopped thinking in terms of financial logic and started taking a more adventurous approach. If we take a few risks and fail so be it, better that than continue with the cautious approach and settle for another just about on par season.

    Each to their own I guess.

  19. I am a long term Arsenal supporter from abroad (Australia). i don’t pay 1000 pounds, or there about, for a season ticket, however I do buy an Arsenal Jersey almost every year and buy the same for my two boys. i do stay up or get up at obscene hours of the morning to watch and support Arsenal. It hurts to see Arsenal slip from ist place, to end up in a struggle for 4th place. I do however accept though, that for people who pay 1000 pounds or so for a season ticket, it would hurt even more. And you are all entitled to feel upset and even angry.
    But lets have a logical, practical and structured view of this situation.
    I reckon if you asked Arsene Wegner now , after experiencing games without players like , Wilshire , Walcott , Ramsey , Ozil, and even Gibbs and Kochienly , I think Arsene Wenger would admit that he should have strengthened . However, he is not able to predict injuries to this amount of players, at the same time in the middle and further up the park. While I think he has been a magician for us to do what he has done for Arsenal , he is not superhuman.
    While the question of why we have so many injuries MUST be asked and acted on , the following must also be considered. If I am correct Walcott was injured in a type of tackle he did not have to make. Wilshire was injured in a poor tackle against him while playing for England. Fair enough Ramsey and Ozil may have played themselves into injury.
    Take 4 to 6 starting players out of the top 4 teams and they will all struggle.
    In Sydney were I still play football for fitness and fun, my mates have started turning up to training with their Liverpool jerseys that I haven’t seen for 5 years and acting like Liverpool have won the title. Where was their team the last 4 years ? Not In the top 4.
    But good work to Liverpool and Rodgers , they rallied around their start striker (who wanted to leave ) (who said Arsene wasn’t looking to add ) (Hugain included) and with a good spirit and togetherness , they have a strong chance of winning the title. Now is not the time to implode. Lets support Arsenal and do what Liverpool have done. It could be worse.
    Tottenham have spent their $100 million pounds on players and where are they ?
    Simply spending money is not the answer ……… it has to be the right player at a reasonable price.
    Where is United this year ?
    We are not Chelsea and we are not Man City, we cannot spend the obscene amount of money they have and will. And even that is being looked at closely by those Financial Fair Play Rules or whatever they are called. And even then, they are still not without weakness, they beat us fair enough and that is why they are above us , but they too have dropped some very unexpected points.

  20. The word today for the AAAA is vacuous.

    1. without contents; empty: the vacuous air.
    2.lacking in ideas or intelligence: a vacuous mind.
    3. expressing or characterized by a lack of ideas or intelligence; inane; stupid: a vacuous book.
    4. purposeless; idle: a vacuous way of life.

    Look ! They even have a picture !

  21. Tony,

    Your comment about reading Daily Mail should make your point to those who are actually here to read and not just out to insult you for holding a view contrary to theirs. There is nothing wrong with reading a blog/site that holds a different opinion but I consider it pathetic to be writing in to complain or abuse writers who, in Untold Arsenal’s case, have made clear their ideological position.

    Sometimes I blame some of us regulars for engaging in what I consider pseudo intellectual debates with these people. It is a waste of time and it only causes unnecessary aggravation while souring the mood of the blog community. I cannot recall when one negative commenter’s mind has been changed – EVER.

    Anyone who feels strongly enough to comment on a blog is not seeking enlightenment. They are often trying to assert their own or possibly, ram it down the throats of those who object.

  22. Tony … is it a ‘brilliant era’ when you haven’t won anything for nearly TEN years?!

    I would never throw my season ticket away. Now that is pointless. Agree the club needs support… but theres a limit to supporting the club and not the way it is currently run. There are so many glaring mistakes that even the stupidest media / critic person can see. Everyone except Arsene.

    You said it yourself above… we were going into the season with Sanogo and hoping that Theo and Podolski would fill in upfront. This is NOT a winning mentality. Champions plan their squad and address deficiencies. This hasnt been done in a long time and it has to stop.

    You also mention going into the season with these options was a legitimate call. Yes, if you don’t want to win anything or compete. Which ultimately we haven’t when it matters.

    We all know the main reason all these players are injured is because Arsene mostly plays the SAME team every week. You just can’t do that. Giroud has been garbage since January. Hes dead on his feet because hes been totally overplayed. So has Ramsey, so has Theo and so has Ozil. As usual, total mismanagement. Dress it up how you want, but there’s no excuse when the opportunities were that to strengthen.

  23. Bootoomee – saying pseudo intellectual doesnt make your argument sound intellectual. I agree no one should post on any blog and insult the writer, that is uncalled for. You either agree or dont with his opinion HOWEVER it does not stop you presenting an argument who trying to change someones mind. As you say a negative posters mind cant be change nor can a positives (I am yet to work out who are the negative ones, i guess its relative considering your own position). If there is no point in debating opinions, we may as well all just pack up and go home.

  24. @Brickfields

    Very good, I enjoyed that link, but we have reclassified the AAA as weasels – this is because there are nazi links with the “sewer rat” phrase. Although to be honest I am not sure that “weasel” is sufficiently repugnant to describe the AAA.


    No. We all enjoy Brickfield’s jokes and comments – if you want to submit a YAAAP (yet another anti Arsenal post) there are many sites dedicated to that form of backstabbing.

  25. “Anyone who feels strongly enough to comment on a blog is not seeking enlightenment. They are often trying to assert their own or possibly, ram it down the throats of those who object.”

    lets just disable the comments section then. No one should feel compelled to comment on a blog. brilliant stuff.

  26. @Brickfields

    “Vacuous” is probably about right for the AAA, but those young ladies looked a class above normal AAA recruits!

  27. bjtgooner – hypocritical. No one should have an opinion then? didnt think my post was anti-arsenal or back stabbing at all. I was talking about improving things at the club which will benefit the club. perhaps you should read the post comment first, then one more time to understand it. Then once you feel youve truly grasped it, drop a comment. It does seem like people are very uncomfortable talking about glaringly obvious problems at the club. I guess if we all stay quiet it will go away eh. Support the club please, always think of the club first, it will help us progress. I do appreciate that people are scared of change however and take comfort from inertia and familiariy. Don’t be afraid, remember we didntgo from Chapman straight to Wenger, there were several managerail changes in between too. It will all be ok in the end. Have no fear.

  28. I supported Arsenal because one sunny Saturday (late afternoon, the dukes of hazzard was on the telly) he came home from work and had with him some stationery sets for kids…one was ManUre and one was Arsenal. It was early May 1979 (although I did not know that, I was 5). My elder sister got first pick…I had what was left – the rest is a beautiful history.

    I was the Arsenal Fan in my friends circle group at school. It was odd to be the odd one out, surrounded mostly by Liverpool, Palace and Millwall fans (with some Spurs and ManUre). That’s SE23 for you!

    Guys the feeling I experienced when we lost to ManUre in 1983 Fa Cup semis was the first truly sick feeling I had.

    Guys the feeling I experienced when we beat Spurs in the league cup semi’s (Littlewoods cup) in 1987 was the first ecstatic feeling.

    The suffering never ends as a fan, it goes on and on and on. No matter who you support.

    TONY – mate, keep up the great work Old bean.

  29. Why the need to insult posters bjt? Likening people to animals isn’t exactly clever and adds nothing to the debate. I could refer to ‘AKB’s’ (not that it’s a term I would usually use) as ‘Lemmings’ if I felt so inclined. Interesting that ‘sewer rat’ has been abandoned because of alleged Nazi overtones when you consider that the Nazi’s ruthlessly controlled their state media to prevent any unpalatable opinion being heard. Rather ironic really.

  30. Ash79,

    I don’t come to Untold to advertise my intellectual prowess. I am actually turned off by those who do. If anyone thinks that a football fans’ blog is the right place for them to show their intellectual chops, then they can’t really be genuine intellectuals. Football fandom is an emotional enterprise. Other than verifiable facts, all other debates are neither here nor there.

    Since you’ve been arguing with fans with opposing views on football blogs, how many of them have you been able to show the errors of their ways? How many have conceded that you are right and they are wrong? You might as well get a christian to concede to a muslim that Islam is the right path to salvation or vice versa.

    Because Untold Arsenal is a blog that is POSITIVELY supporting Arsenal players, Manager and board, those who come here to call us deluded because we don’t buy into the notion that the club is doomed by one of its main actors (usually Arsene Wenger) are the negative fans. I know they don’t see themselves as such and from your comment, neither do you but I hope you understand the terminology now even if you don’t agree with it.

    Finally, I come to Untold Arsenal to rub minds with other fans of similar disposition. We don’t always agree but we see and support the club from similar point of view. There are thousands of other blogs for those who want to support the club with a different bent. Actually, there many more of those and very few of this. It is not too much to ask to be left in peace to wallow in our collective delusions here.

  31. Bootoomee – so you rather someone didnt present a counter view to yours? Youmay not and there’s nowt wrong with that however you do leave yourself open to the risk of it happening when its a blog witha comments section talking about a subject shared by millions who hold differing opinions.

    Not here to ‘change’ anyone, if anything i really do want to understand why you hold the views you do and what it would take to change your views? how bad would things need to be? what woudl need to happen? wouldnt make you wrong or right its your view

  32. right, enough of this, day’s almost over and no work has been done.

    For tomorrow, lets set aside all differences and get behind the lads.

    Enjoy your semi-final day people.

    Come on Arsenal!!

  33. @andy1886

    You should perhaps ask the more relevant question why certain posters come onto this site repeatedly to attack the team and manager.

    I abandoned the “sewer rat” term because when another contributor pointed out the nazi link, I did not wish to to either offend anyone from the Jewish Religion or have anyone think I had the slightest nazi sympathy. I see that in your efforts to try and be clever you attempt to be offensive – and yet you complain I am being offensive if I describe the AAA in zoological terms – a bit hypocritical of you?

  34. Ash79,

    Get over yourself dude!

    It’s only football, we are not talking about world peace or some important philosophical topic here.

    In case there is a misunderstanding about my position with the so called negative posters, here is my stand:

    I don’t think that only those who agree with Untold Arsenal’s mission statement should post here. Neither do Tony and Walter or none of such comments would ever be published. It is not uncommon for blogs to have the counter-policy on comments but Untold allows all to express their opinion, as long as they are not offensive.

    I usually scroll past whiny and negative comments. Life is too short and I refuse to argue with any fan who thinks they know better than Arsene Wenger on how to run the team. If they are so good, they should be managing a premier league club rather than whining on the Internet. You may love to hold ‘intellectual’ debates like that but I don’t.

    I have seen countless threads hijacked by a regular Untolder and a Doomer that soon becomes a vicious cycle of redundant arguments. I don’t do that and I think that if less Untold regulars engage in those arguments, we’d have less of the Doomers around. In this instance, I am not trying to convince you of the validity of my position, I am just telling you what they are.

    On that note, I bid you farewell and terminates this conversation.

    All the best to our darling Arsenal tomorrow.

  35. moan moan moan.
    We are a possible 180 mins away from a “trawfie” (that now is papering over the cracks of course…. sigh) and all some can do is moan moan moan

    Why don’t you start to f*cking support the club when it needs you most!!!!!

  36. Walter – who’s moaning? I think the post by Tony is a moan. I don’t see anyone else moaning. All I’m hearing from people is –

    Don’t ask me any questions
    Don’t engage me in a debate
    I don’t want to hear a counter view to mine
    If you do not agree with me YOU are a doomer and YOU are moaning

    It isn’t any wonder that many many fans view this place as a den of delusion. All I want to know is why people hold these views but im not allowed to ask that as people get upset.

    Wow. Just wow.

    Why don’t you support the club ALL THE TIME instead of when there’s a sniff of a trophy? Be constructive, lets help the club move forward, yes..forward.

  37. @Ash79

    Your first comment @ 2.16 pm – wasn’t that a moan? Or are your too hypocritical to see it?

  38. The message –

    One summer, a drought threatened the crop in a small town. On
    a hot and dry Sunday, the village parson told his congregation,
    “There isn’t anything that will save us except to pray for rain.
    Go home, pray, believe, and come back next Sunday ready to thank
    God for sending rain.
    The people did as they were told and returned to church the
    following Sunday. But as soon as the parson saw them, he was
    “We can’t worship today. You do not yet believe,” he said.
    “But,” they protested, “we prayed, and we do believe.”
    “Believe?” he responded. “Then where are your umbrellas?”

  39. My wife and I were in a church service. There was an older gentleman in the audience near the front who would periodically interject a “Praise God” or “Amen, brother”.
    During the sermon, the pastor began speaking about Solomon and mentioned his 700 wives and concubines when the old man said “Lord have mercy”.

  40. BLAH , BLAH !

    The minister just had all of his remaining teeth pulled and new dentures were being made.
    The first Sunday, he only preached 10 minutes. The second Sunday, he preached only 20 minutes. But, on the third Sunday he preached 1 hour 25 minutes.
    When asked about this by some of the congregation, he responded this way:
    “The first Sunday, my gums were so sore it hurt to talk. The second Sunday, my dentures were hurting a lot. The third Sunday, I accidentally grabbed my wife’s dentures and I could not stop talking!”

  41. The truth from the mouths of babes.
    Goodnight guys ! Don’t let the AAAA bug you none !

    A Sunday school teacher asked her little children, as they were on
    the way to church service, “And why is it necessary to be quiet in
    One bright little girl replied, “Because people are sleeping.”

  42. Okay, bootome have a point, time to make ash to it’s origin; ash…

    Huffftt… You are no longer a big matter…

    Ps still do me wonders, why none of you show up when UA made a post on the spuds? Hmmm….. Many theories goes through my head..

    Ah but well….

  43. Misread the news… Not the semi… My bad…

    Move along now, nothing to see here… :E

  44. @Dwyane
    (April 11, 2014 at 10:58 am)
    Your 1 comment, cut-n-pasted from 2 comments posted on an article from here: :troll:

  45. Tony; Bootome
    An old man and a young boy were traveling through their village with their donkey. The boy rode on the donkey and the old man walked.

    As they went along they passed some people who remarked it was a shame the old man was walking and the boy was riding.

    The man and boy thought maybe the critics were right, so they changed positions.

    Later, they passed some people that remarked, “What a shame, he makes that little boy walk.” They then decided they both would walk.

    Soon they passed some more people who thought they were stupid to walk when they had a decent donkey to ride. So, they both rode the donkey.

    Now they passed some people that shamed them by saying, “How awful to put such a load on a poor donkey.”

    The boy and man said they were probably right, so they decided to carry the donkey.

    As they crossed the bridge, they lost their grip on the animal and he fell into the river and drowned.

    The moral of the story?

    If you try to please everyone, you may as well just kiss your ass goodbye.

    Thankfully Tony & Walter know this.

  46. We are all supporters of AFC and have both enjoyed the good times and the bad times (okay too many for too long) but we must still support the team to the end.

    AAA is a myth, every supporter can and should have his/her opinion. Unless you support another club then posting any comment does not make you AAA. It seems unless you tow the party line that everything is dandy at the Emirates then you’re classed as AAA. This is totally ridiculous and something that should belong in the school playground. It simply is not wrong to be upset at the continuous capitulation shown by Arsenal teams over the last few years. Yes have faith in Wenger and the current squad but if you’re going to use this as an argument then back it up with why (poor officials and conspiracies for the last 9 years is simply not a realistic argument).

    There’s a tendency with some of the members on this board to suggest 4th place is preferential to winning a trophy (i.e. the FA cup). Let’s see how many still believe this during and after the semi-final tomorrow. I would gladly accept the FA cup and playing in the Europa league (with a chance of winning the damn thing) rather than just making up the numbers in the CL.

    I do not consider myself anti-Arsenal (lets be honest anti-Wenger is the actual sticking point) I just want what’s best for the club. Wenger suddenly pulling rabbits out of a virtual hat is just not something I and many other supporters are willing to hold our breath for.

    I have an opinion and now I’m ready for the usual deluge of crap to rain down on me.

  47. @5th Gen Gooner
    I would refer you to Bootoomee’s April 11, 2014 at 2:48 pm post replying to Ash79.
    You are welcome and entitled to your opinions of course you are. We just don’t want them rammed down our throats on Untold where we come to discuss things with like minded supporters of a particular positive pro Wenger disposition. Why would you go to Conservative Party meetings if you are a Labour supporter for any other reason other than to heckle and disrupt in the certain knowledge you would be ejected from that meeting if you didn’t shut up.

  48. Mr. Attwood, glad that the site is up again. (or could there be problem with my internet connection since afternoon? I have limited and expensive internet access though)

    @Ash37 11:58am,
    1. ‘but in reality means nothing…’ What you called reality is an opinion.

    2. 9 years? No not too long a process for me. There was a 10 year post Highbury plan. Imho, Arsenal is even ahead of that plan now. Ash79, you must have been following Arsenal long before me, so you have celebrated at least a trophy while I’m still waiting for my first. The waiting days are almost over now.

    3. ‘Again we (the majority of arsenal fans)…’ Majority? By what statistics please?

    4. ‘we are not asking for guaranteed success…we want the club to use their resources to compete…’ I’m glad to hear this because with our resources, we have competed (still do) for the best part of the season until the injuries explosion.

    5. ‘buy proper talent,…backroom credential, training…, tactics, stat guy, nutrition….’ ‘we simply are not trying’. Ash79, that was indeed harsh. AW tried buying Suarez. Not getting him and the reasons why shouldn’t be AW’s fault. And my questions for you are:
    a. Mention players that were available, affordable and better than the following players during the summer and winter transfer windows: Giroud, Ramsey, Walcott, Poddy, Carzola, Wilshere, Arteta, Flamini, Sagna, Gibbs, BFG, Kos?

    b.If you were the manager, and you could replace any of the players above (given you have enough money), how would you give everybody playing time, maintain team balance and guarantee immediate team chemistry?

    c. Without injuries to key players since December 2013, would you have bought in January?

    d. Would we not have won the league without those injuries?

    For ‘AW doesn’t do tactics’ campaigners, read on how Arsenal defeated manure in the cup final using Arsene Wenger’s tactics. Who gave him the idea then? Yeah I know, the ‘real/true’ fans did. 😉

    The real AAA should be fans of other clubs and if you are not against Arsenal but disagrees with the spirit behind this blog, I recommend Le Grove and others in the ‘majority’ for you. Trust me, you will feel at home there. Afterall they are ‘realistic’ Arsenal fans.

    And Brickfields Gunners, thanks as usual for those kid says.


  49. @ Damilare – How’s the little one ? Doing well I hope .They grow up very fast , so enjoy every minute of it .
    My oldest turned 21 this week . I still remember when I first held him in my arms for the first time. Still feels it was just yesterday !
    10 years may seem like so long to some , but in that time Arsenal has had some fleeting moments of joy and cause to celebrate ; and truthfully ,it has been a great ride for me personally .
    When the good times roll soon , it will be a forgotten blip in time . Patience is a virtue and good things come to those who wait .

  50. Women are unique!


    Honey, a car hit me when I was out of the office. Paula brought me to
    the Hospital. They have been taking tests and X-rays. The blow to my head
    has been very strong, fortunately it seems that it did not cause any serious
    injury, but I have three broken ribs, a compound fracture in the left leg, and
    they may have to amputate the right foot.


    Who’s Paula?

  51. Tony
    That opening quote is so true, sums up the majority of fans in today’s game. Brilliant article.

    Regarding the blogger that said they hadn’t read any evidence to show a disproportionate amount of bad decisions against Arsenal, where have they been these past 8 years? Even if someone were to choose to deny there’s a concerted effort by officials in the PL to shaft Arsenal, what would they make of our performances in Europe? In the past 3 or 4 years, and more importantly this season, we faced the mighty in Europe in the shape of Barcelona, Dortmund, Bayern, etc, and have beaten them as well lose to them. All these sides are better than Everton, Liverpool, even Chelsea or City. But we never “collapsed” against these sides. Yet we go to places like Everton, Anfield etc and we are supposed to be exposed for what we are? I say the real barometer of how good Arsenal is can be gauged against their performances against the best in Europe. And I don’t recall being ’embarrassed’ by any of our performances in Europe. Why, because the refereeing standards are much better there,and the sides in Europe don’t play to the ref’s weaknesses like they do in the PL.

  52. Is it me or is a pattern developing where we get a (usually previously unknown) poster come on here and spend the next few days getting involved with all commenters and posting hundreds of comments. Then they quickly disappear only to be replaced by another. Nothing wrong with people expressing their opinion, but I just wish they would stick around a lot longer to fight their corner than this blitzkrieg style spamming of the site then disappearing.

  53. @ AL – Its been always like that for a very long time.He thinks that by changing his name we cannot make him out.
    For some reason he gets pissed of at me when I post jokes.I never give them the pleasure of ‘engaging’ with them ,but go on the offensive by putting jokes or articles that mock them.Pisses them even more .
    Me , who never preaches tactics nor ‘sermon ‘ AW how the team should play or who to buy .Me , just a long time supporter of Arsenal.

    And just like the Sith there are always two.One the main arsehole and the second ,the avowed and sycophantic arselicker ,who gobbles up all that is crapped !
    Occasionally an alleged Jedi or two (turned to the dark side by the promise of trowphies!) would try to praise them as being the new age messiahs and make a fool of themselves.

    Just scroll on and soon they go away.

  54. Seems appropriate here .

    Six-year-old Angie and her four-year-old brother Joel were sitting in church. Joel giggled, sang, and talked out loud .
    Finally, his big sister had had enough. “You’re not supposed to talk out loud in church.”
    “Why? Who’s going to stop me?” Joel asked.
    Angie pointed to the back of the church and said, “See those two men standing by the door? They’re hushers.”

    A six year old boy was overheard reciting the Lord’s Prayer at church service. “And forgive us our trash passes as we forgive those who passed trash against us.”

  55. After a church service, a little boy told the Pastor, “When I grow up, I’m going to give you some money.”
    “Well, thank you,” the Pastor replied, “that would be very nice of you,” he smiled, “but why?”
    “Because my daddy says you’re the poorest preacher we’ve ever had.”

    “I hope you didn’t take it personally, Reverend,” an embarrassed woman said after a church service, “when my husband walked out during your sermon.”
    “I did find it rather disconcerting,” the preacher replied.
    “It’s not a reflection on you, sir,” insisted the church goer. “Ralph has been walking in his sleep ever since he was a child.”

  56. From…

    Two elderly excited women who were sitting together in the front pew of church with a fiery preacher. When this preacher condemned the sin of lust, these two ladies cried out at the top of their lungs…
    When the preacher condemned the sin of stealing, they yelled again… “PREACH IT REVEREND!”
    And when the preacher condemned the sin of lying…they jumped to theifeet and screamed.
    But when the preacher condemned the sin of gossip, the two got quiet and one turned to the other and said, “He’s done quit preaching and now he’s meddlin’.”

    A preacher was telling his congregation that anything they could think of, old or new, was discussed somewhere in the Bible and that the entirety of human experiences could be found there.
    After the sermon, he was approached by a woman who told the preacher, “I don’t believe the Bible mentions PMS.”
    The preacher replied that he was sure it must be in there somewhere and that he would find it for her.
    The following week, after service, the preacher called the woman aside and showed her a passage which read, “And Mary rode Joseph’s ass all the way to Bethlehem.”

  57. You’re absolutely right Brickfields, best to ignore them and starve them of the attention they’re really after.

  58. AL,

    But what about those who are only here to engage in ‘intellectual’ debates on how best to manage Arsenal FC? Aren’t you denying them of their “freedom of speech” by not letting them ramble on about how doomed Arsenal is until their ‘insightful’ opinions and suggestions are adopted by the club?

    Come on man, please don’t scroll past their long winded (or copy and pasted) comments. Please respond to them. It is true that you might lose several minutes of your life that you’ll never get back but at least you would have done the great service of massaging the ego of some Internet nitwits ….sorry ‘experts’.

    The feeling of self importance of some of these people is pathetic and saddening.


    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    “Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance.”

    “The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.”
    Elbert Hubbard

    “He must be very ignorant for he answers every question he is asked”

    “There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.”
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.


    “What’s the difference between ignorance and apathy?”
    “I don’t know; and I couldn’t care less.”

    A witty remark attributed to the late teacher-thinker-poet Ari was “We are all ignorant -some of us even of our ignorance.”

    If ignorance is bliss, most of the AAAA must be orgasmic.

    Q: What is the definition of gross ignorance?
    A: 144 blondes.
    ( If you answered 144 AAAA , you’d still be right !)

  61. @Brickfields

    If one is looking for light bulb jokes, how is it that “gobetrotters” has synonyms of “lawyer” and “bureaucrat”?


    At half time, West Brom ahead of spuds 3-1, and Sunderland holding Everton 0-0.

  62. Bootoomee
    Hadn’t seen your comment as I hadn’t been back since about midday. Yes, it’s pathetic really. They come on here and try and act like/assume some kind of authority when in reality they are just sad little t**ts.

  63. Al so we got hammered at Anfield because of referees,at Goodison too? Ha ha.Still there won’t be any more CL for a while so you and the team had better get used to it.If you despise the PL so much why don’t you go and watch another League,we don’t want your kind thank you.

  64. @ Gord – Sorry ,just saw your comments .So whats common between those three ?
    Shifty , crafty , and sleight of hand ball carriers ?
    Slam dunk opponents and foes without an afterthought ?
    Money making public entertaining machines ?
    ‘Bull’dozers – ” Can you believe this shit ?”
    Over the top rabble-rousers ,circus performers and court jesters ?
    Never having to do a honest day’s work but still play ball ?
    Swift buck and ball passers ?
    Brownie points gained from downtown ,uptown and everywhere in between .
    Bending over backwards to score points ?
    Netting suckers ?
    Limelight seekers and flashbulbs aflashing ?

    My head’s starting to hurt . Sometimes I wonder why I get into these ‘conversations ‘ with you !

  65. Sorry Brickfields. I just thought it odd to find jokes about lawyers and bureaucrats, when I was looking for globetrotters. You spend more time with jokes than I, maybe you had inside knowledge?

    I just seen your collection of error stuff when I switched to this page, so something is out of whack that will need fixing later in the day. I will guess a file got deleted or renamed.

  66. @ Gord – Cool man ,just joking . Always like to stretch the old funny bone whenever I get the chance .Only exercise I’m getting of late .
    I just click on and get sent to some really funny sites and they seem more spaced out and weirder than me.
    Most of the time I ‘ll be giggling so much that I would be surprised if the wife thinks I’m chatting /flirting online !

  67. …I wouldn’t be…
    This blue thingy comes out when I click the mouse and the word disappears . Where do deleted words go ? Are they safe ? Happy ?

  68. its not that we collapsed,what hurts the most is dat noone was bothered when we were top with 7 points.and as expected we capitulated and reverted back to the usual dogfight for 4th place.(which we may lose now cos everton is on a strong run)

  69. Great article Tony.

    I think it helped me clear a few things for myself.

    I bloody HATE the globetrotters. I bloody hate WWE as well. If you want to see a show, then football is definetly not for you. Sports is not for you.

    And yes, sports is for me – I follow A LOT of sports, perhaps too much. On the other hand, I don’t go to the theatre.

    When the team plays beautifully I’m thrilled, of course. But then again I am also thrilled when they play ugly, all heart and never-say-die attitude (which is why I’m a bit upset lately but that’s another story).

    I don’t remember people complaining when we were delivering great results in the beginning of this season. I don’t remember too many people apologizing for saying that Ramsey was crap (for years) or for saying that Wenger should leave. And that’s ok. But truth is we had a very good squad that delivered very consistently so nobody said “yes but it will all fall to pieces because X, Y and Z will be injured”.

    In addition to the fact that Arsenal DID try to sign 2 strikers, and the fact that from where I am standing there is no line of unemployed world class strikers out there waiting for us – I think that the club handled it’s transfers quite reasonbly. Or at least – after we signed Ozil, nobody said that we didn’t sign anyone and will collapse later on this season.

    Also take into consideration that some players that play week-in-week-out just don’t get injured. Or at least for very short periods – Yaya Toure is crucial for City. He played most of their games. Gerrard for Liverpool, same as Suarez for them. On the flip side, look at Juve – they lost Pirlo, their most important player, for only 14 days, and it was enough to be ousted by Galatasary in the CL.

    So, should Conte have bought a replacement for Pirlo ? First question is – IS there a replacement for Pirlo? I don’t think so, and in the same way there is no replacement for Walcott.

    Second and more important question – if there WAS a replacement for Pirlo (and Walcott) – would you buy him just to have him warm up the bench and wait for his chance? And more importantly would a player as good as Pirlo (or Walcott) agree to sit on the bench for most of the season ?

    These are just examples of how irrelevant and futile the criticism of “how we should have handled things…” is.

    To me the only valid complaints can be for not showing enough heart on the pitch and having the other team want it more than us. Sometimes circumstances can damage the spirit – and it’s up to the manager and the team to get over it, BUT – and it’s a huge but – that’s probably the no. 1 area where us fans can contribute, to help lift the guys’ spirits up. When we fail to do it, we have to blame ourselves as well.


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