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April 2021

Arsenal – Tottenham: one costly mistake but what a fighting spirit

By Walter Broeckx

The start of the match was very one sided. The totts installed a kind of bus and their only thought was about defending. Just Adebayor up front and every now and then on a few rare occasions he got a bit of support from Chadli and Eriksen.

But it was Arsenal that tried to pass their way through their defense. It lead to a few chances. Some dangerous crosses like the one that had to punched away from under the crossbar from Oxlade-Chamberlain. Welbeck made an excellent run from in our own half but Kaboul just managed to block his shot.

Wilshere almost had a shooting change after a corner was diverted to him on the edge of the penalty area but the ball wouldn’t end up in a perfect shooting positing. A bit later it did fall better but Jack his shot was straight at Lloris.

Meanwhile the ref let a first hard challenge from Lamela go but he had no mercy when Oxlade-Chamberlain came in late. A bit later another yellow card for Jack Wilshere when he came in a bit silly.  Lamela also got his yellow card a bit later.

One of the turning points was when Arteta suddenly went down to the ground without contact. His calf seemed to suffer from an injury and he had to be replaced by Flamini. As if that wasn’t enough a bit later a Tottenham defender clearly kicked Wilshere on the ankle in the penalty area and the ref as predicted in our previews gave nothing. The biggest scare was would the ankle of Jack hold it? Apparently it did for now as he could return after a brief spell on the sideline.

After that a hard and low shot from Oxlade-Chamberlain had to be parried by lLoris with a strong hand.

Those two injuries caused a bit of holding back from Arsenal and it gave the former Middlesex team the chance to also come forward a bit. Adebayor almost got a chance but he forgot that he has a left foot and dithered too long.

The worst possible finish of the first half had yet to come. Ramsey who had been working hard and was involved in lots of attacks suddenly held his hamstring. Two muscle injuries in the first 45 minutes. It was match over for Ramsey and Cazorla came one for the extra time in the first half. Adebayor had a low shot that looked to be going wide palmed away by Szczesny in to a corner that lead to nothing. Arsenal the better team in the first half but nothing to show for it on the score board.

The second half was all Arsenal even more than the first half. Cross after cross, situation after situation in the Tottenham penalty area. But the ball just wouldn’t go in. And then came the almost only shot from Tottenham in the second half on the Arsenal goal. Flamini got caught in possession and Eriksen could nick the ball away to Lamela who found Chadli who scored with a low shot.

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At such a time you realise what a cruel game football is. You boss the game with a statistic flashing on my screen saying we had 80% possession and a great deal of chances and still  we were 0-1 down. To them of all teams. You started thinking : surely it isn’t going to be one of those days.

But the team didn’t let their heads drop. And under Özil who directed his team like the world class player he is we started attacking their goal. Waver after wave after wave after wave. I must say that Kaboul was amazing for them I think he made some 20 clearances on dangerous crosses.

When a free kick from Özil found the head of Mertesacker the whole stadium thought the goal had arrived. But Lloris managed to stop the ball on the line and push it away before it went in. No goal said the goal line technology and I think it was right.  And more thinking: surely this isn’t….

But the team kept on attacking. Oxlade-Chamberlain ran his right flank and caused all kinds of troubles but it just didn’t happen. Meanwhile Tottenham had reverted to a let’s kick them down whenever they attack. I must say that at first sight the ref handled it well and dished out enough yellow cards to stop some of them from overdoing it. But more on that in the referee review of course.

Alexis came on for Wilshere who was targeted by their players and his boot was even kicked out without there being a ball near to him. Wilshere already on a yellow was a risk. Alexis came on and he did play a part from the left side.

Chambers produced a stunning shot that just sailed over the crossbar. That would have been a hell of a goal. But still 0-1 behind and only some 16 minutes left. The attacks kept on rolling towards the Tottenham goal like the waves on the beach. When Lamela miskicked a clearance the ball came to Alexis who gave it inside. Cazorla produced a low shot that hit a few players, Welbeck tried to finish with his left foot but miskicked it but behind him came Oxlade-Chamberlain who cannoned the ball in the back of the net. Joy in the Emirates and at my home.

After that we tried to win the game and had several chances but it just wouldn’t happen any more. They wasted time, the ref even giving a yellow for it, but it wasn’t one of those days. It was only half one of those days. We should have won this match. If our finishing would have been a bit better but we didn’t finish the chances we had and that is something we have to blame ourselves for. One mistake cost us 2 points.

But the best team, Arsenal, didn’t get what they deserved. But that is why football is sometimes a cruel game. Or half a cruel game.

Now the worry is about the injuries. Fingers crossed it isn’t too bad.



120 comments to Arsenal – Tottenham: one costly mistake but what a fighting spirit

  • Mandy Dodd

    Thanks Walter, as you say, some fighting spirit shown.
    Lessons from today…..think we have to do a bit better when we get corners, maybe missing OG a bit there.
    Also, Shad… have to work harder! Of course this is not your fault you have just arrived, but too way many non contact soft tissue injuries!…..or are they as a result of earlier kickings?
    But well done the boys for keeping at it when it appeared at times it would be one of those days

  • jayramfootball

    We did indeed show fighting spirit – but only when we conceded. We showed nothing much at all until that point. It was poor. But after the Spurs goal we really came alive.

    I thought Ozil was outstanding in the second half and Alexis really changed the flow of the game when he came on.

    Overall a poor result at home to Spurs – who are really not very good. Weakest I have seen them for a long time and I don’t see them as serious top 4 contenders. With Liverpool’s awful form it may be that top 4 is easier than we might have thought this year.

    A word on the ref – I seriously do not know how Spurs ended that game with then men. WTF is going on here with these refs and Arsenal??? Lennon gets let off a second yellow when he committed a professional foul on Chambers running into the penalty box from the wing, Kabul could all game and I don’t think he even got a booking and the shin high studs up tackle on Ozil – how in the world was that not a straight red????

  • Leon

    Only a loser could be happy with that result.

    Once again it was two points dropped rather than one gained.

    Wenger has not taken this club forward, we have not improved and this season the overwhelming feeling has been one of disappointment.

    I wish to god that Wenger would take his leave, admit that he can take this club no further and just go.

    A wonderful legacy has been destroyed by him thinking that he can compete with the best managers out there – he cannot and because of that Arsenal will continue to suffer, continue to under perform and will simply be fighting it out for qualification for a competition they have absolutely NO HOPE of ever winning.

    This is not Arsenal moving forward, this is Arsenal stuck in a rutt where nothing is elected of them

    Today was a BAD result….

  • Nick

    Your English, including the inexplicable use of the passive sense, is abysmal. Your knowledge of football is woeful. How did you get this

    * partly edited *

  • partha

    i think arsenal players should get accustomed to the fact that they will have teams defending with 10 men. played pretty well after conceding but after 85 minutes a little urgency was needed. also a little less profligacy would help. shots from distance sometimes help break stubborn defences as they charge to get a block in. thats where cracks open up

  • jayramfootball

    Thats way over the top @Leon! The second half was a good performance. No doubt we need to improve defensively and Wenger needs to find a better balance in the team – we are just too open. You are just OTT because of the pain of not beating a poor Spurs team.


    Leon, you and your ilk are the biggest kind of dickheads the world have ever seen.

  • partha

    @leon i am perfectly happy with the result. but there is room for improvement

  • Josif

    I remember when Walter wrote about Ramsey how all his game needed was less fear of killing someone by scoring more goals.

    That pretty much sums up my view on The Ox. I have a feeling we have a lot of goals in him waiting to be scored. I’ll say it again: he can be as good as Wayne Rooney at top of his game used to be, except not that ugly.

  • partha

    and thay idiot got himself sent off. dont know how utd will line up if they get a single injury to an attacker

  • partha

    its that and not thay

  • partha

    what is the latest update on arteta and ramsey?

  • Walter, yeah we could have had the 3 points. We showed good passing and attacks in 2nd half.

    But there is one MAJOR thing that the following are responsible for in today’s match, manipulation of truth.

    1.Premier League
    2.Michael Oliver, the Assistants and the fourth official.
    4.The Channel who was responsible for broadcasting this match.
    5.The commentators

    That is the header by mertesacker and the save by lloris.
    When Lloris touched the ball it was on line.
    But the ball started to roll back in the follow-through. It crossed the line.

    But here is the trick, if it crossed the line the GLT (Goal Line technology) should have showed the main Referee Michael Oliver the “GOAL” on his watch. Strangely the game carried on.

    Normally on any shot, attempt, foul, mis-kick, save, etc. they show 1-3 replays of it right after it happens. But on Mertesacker’s header the main broadcasters (don’t know who it was) DID NOT show replay after it happened. In fact after at least 5 five minutes guess what they showed ?

    They showed in Goal Line camera, the ball moving forward and Lloris saving it and then PAUSED IT AT THE EXACT MOMENT IT WAS SAVED and showed NO-GOAL. Nothing was else was shown throughout the match. Nothing of that incident, zero, nil, nada. The follow through of ball was never shown after Lloris saved it. What is the use Goal Line Tech ??!!!

    We were ripped-off 3 points !

  • bob mac

    Wonderful performance.

    Ozil sublime yet again.

    Well done all round.

  • Mandy Dodd

    WTF is going on with these refs and Arsenal…..a very very good question Jayram. Will wait for the review on this one, but did seem they got away with a lot.
    They are a poor side, nothing like the players Poc clearly wants. Kaboul played the game of his life…..think Loris did rather well too at times.
    Yes, we should have finished them off.
    Football is a game. Games are decided by mistakes….but we really have to stop these costly self inflicted mistakes.
    Ozil seems to like playing with Alexis…..and theo will soon be back, I expect us to become much more clinical in coming weeks

  • Sammy The Snake

    Only Chelsea and Gunners unbeaten so far, but we have 10 points against their 16.
    I feel we are just one or two steps away from being superb, but injuries keep pulling us back.
    I worry about next Saturday game with Chelski without Arteta and Ramsey. That’s in addition to OG, and everyone else.

  • jayramfootball

    Wow I just saw the Merts header – over the line and as the post above says it is VERY strange that the goal line technology was paused at the point before it crossed the line AND Sky refused to show it – waiting 2 minutes before showing a partial representation of the truth. This is pretty blatant.

  • Mick

    The boss says that Arteta and Ramsey will definately both be out for next weeks Chelsea game.

  • eezzee

    Leon, you need a brain transplant. Give the team time to gel, the seasons only just started. That will turn out the best that spurs will play all season and probably their best possession stats as well As for wenger leaving , don,t be a complete moron

  • para

    Sometimes i get the feeling that (some?) PL games are scripted, much less CL games.

    Anyway, ignore me.

  • WalterBroeckx

    September 27, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    Your English, including the inexplicable use of the passive sense, is abysmal. Your knowledge of football is woeful. How did you get this

    My dear Nick.

    yes it might be.

    But you know, it doesn’t bother me that much if it comes from you. As English is in fact my third language.
    So I suggest you write an article about this match in Dutch. you know the language of Martin Jol.
    And then you can write one in French. As that is my second language.
    And if you want, you can also write it in German. As that is my fourth language that I can speak, read and write.

    And as it was written in the heat of the battle, things might have been wrong.

    But I am waiting for your article in at least 2 other languages.

  • jayramfootball

    If the image linked of the tackle on Ozil is allowed against Arsenal without a red card then it is no wonder we get so many injuries.

    The fact it was not a straight red is a disgrace – we literally have to get a player with a broken bone in order to get a red card decision from a ref!

  • bjtgooner

    It was overall a great display of attacking football from our team from start to finish. The Spuds were totally outplayed; unfortunately, we gave away a totally unnecessary goal, but apart from that error the Spuds were dominated and very lucky to get a point.

    I think the early injuries hampered us, apart from losing key players, Wenger’s numerical choices for later changes were therefore limited.

    Oliver was certainly very lenient with the Spud thugs – some of whom should have had a second yellow & one possible straight red – look forward to the ref report.

    The Wilshere penalty – definite kick on his ankle – but the comment from “Jumie Rubbermouth” was “not enough in it for me” – what a biased asshole!

  • Yassin


    Now that shows we are being cheated on, and not incompetence from the ref.
    And the TV broadcaster is in it too.

    This is total cheating, and it is so obvious and this has to trigger total anger from all Arsenal Fans.

    See we are not deluded on here on untold, they CHEAT and this time no way this can be called but cheating. waiting for 5min to manipulate the replay? what do they think we are fools? We will see, if this goes by unnoticed by our fans, then we are truly fools and deserve this!!!

  • AL

    Thank you! I screamed goal when lorris fumbled with that save. The replay was stopped before loris was prone on the ground, and I shouted they stopped the camera before the vital moment. Just glad someone else saw what I saw. That ball crossed the line, I replayed it over and over.

    As for the match we bossed that game, and the reason we didn’t win was the bus. BBC said that was the lowest possession by Tottenham since the 2006/07 season. When a team plays like that, it’s difficult to score against them. I’m not even going to look for any other reason. Ozil put in another stunning performance, wonder what all the ‘drop Mesut’ brigade are saying today.

  • AL

    So far this season, the only match a ref didn’t shaft us is the Villa match. Refereeing standards in the PL are atrocious.

  • WalterBroeckx

    About the goal line incident. Today we will know the truth.
    Scenario 1: MOTD only shows the regular angle and the only the goal line technology as shown in the match. If they do it like that we can be almost 99,99 certain that there is a cheating scenario.

    Scenario 2: MOTD shows the incident with the camera in the Emirates that is posted on the goal line in real images. If they show it like that and the ball didn’t cross the line: fine, OK, no problem. Then it wasn’t a goal.

    In case of scenario 1, we will know that the goal line technology doesn’t work as it should and then the FA, PGMOL, PL and all involved should come out and explain what went wrong and formally apologise towards Arsenal.

    I wonder what will happen on MOTD tonight?

  • AL

    Sorry, I should have given you the credit with showing that it was a goal.

  • jayramfootball

    @AL refereeing standards are not atrocious – in fact they are experts. To do what they do without being caught is a real skill. They are professional cheats. The money flowing into the PGMOL and FA must be enormous. I wonder how many officials are actually getting rich? The clear manipulation of Goal Line Technology replays today by the officials and Sky raises serious questions – this is a defining moment where they may have stepped too far over the line and ‘just a bad decision’ can not explain what transpired.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Well said Walter!Thanks for the report. I was amazed how quickly you put it up after the game.And thanks again for all the reports you write at UA.As someone who struggles with a second language in another country, Im really impressed with your language abilities.Some people have chicken fever today, thats for sure.
    COYG! Ahah and Amen!

  • jayramfootball

    If MOTD also decides to not show the ball over the line tonight then we will know for SURE that a media wide strategy (I hesitate to say conspiracy) is indeed in play.

  • jayramfootball

    I do hope Untold will be taking up the fight on what happened with the Mertesacker GOAL that was not given and the attempted cover up of the replay and of course the strange failure of goal line technology to award the goal to Arsenal.

  • AL

    Agree Jayram. It’s not incompetence but plain cheating. I wonder if the club will do something about it

  • Kentetsu

    Right when the incident happened I felt misgivings. What if the referee willfully ignores the signal on his watch? I was waiting for replays and the Hawkeye decision. When Hawkeye was shown, I was disapointed only a replay was shown up to the moment of Lloris’ save. Your pictures clearly indicate the ball still moved towards goal. Because of the angle of the pictures I will not say the ball certainly crossed the goal line – although I cannot recall how the ball eventually got out of the goalmouth – but it is obvious that at least the broadcaster does not want to provide a clear and indisputable picture.

  • jayramfootball

    @AL as fans we have to do something about it as well. Its why I am hoping this site (and others) will not let this go. Mistakes are one thing but when a TV network cover up a goal and the so called technology to sort situations like this out fairly is also corruptible / fallible then we have a really serious issue in football. I am beginning to understand why goal line technology took so long to implement now – a way of over riding it was needed.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Yassin, there’s a lot of entities in on it.
    The spuds are…for some reason, a media darling…..and Oliver is a weak, but ambitious ref.
    They can’t be letting us get too far away from Utd Liverpool and the spuds can they

  • Yassin

    @Jayram, Al, Walter and all,

    We the fans should start the fight, dont know how in reality, but we should do something. As if the club knows they are cheated, and they know if they do anything about it, things will get worst. But today I cant accept to be fooled like that, I saw it with my eyes, it was cheating, and the commentator said nothing, this is cheating too.
    We as fans should start something, maybe show two pictures in next game with CHEATS below it. dont know?
    start a campaign on the net?

  • jayramfootball

    The first thing is to shame Sky Sports – and the pundits
    They KNEW what happened as they had the replays and they decided to try and bury it. So a banner stating Sky Sports are cheats and biased is a good start

  • WalterBroeckx

    I am waiting for MOTD tonight. If they don’t show it then I smell something fishy.

    Remember calciopoli in Italy? As we have written half a dozen times about it one of the main reasons it worked was because the TV companies edited the images to help the cover up.
    So today might be an interesting moment in time. We know the TV company that showed the live match refused to show the images of the follow up of the save. That is already a fact.
    From each goal mouth incident they show multiple replays from different angles. Not this time. Why? Yeah why? That is a good question. Maybe because there was something we were not allowed to see?
    Imagine that the goal line technology would have failed? Then the whole system is broken down as it will be impossible to believe it from now on.

    It will be an interesting MOTD today

  • Yeah Walter, I hope so

  • Leon


    Absolutely and utterly PATHETIC is what I use to describe this conspiracy theory of the media and referee association denying Arsenal of success.

    Its not the media, its not the referee’s, its not heavenly intervention.

    The simple fact is that Arsenal ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

    They are a fourth place team and nothing more.

    They won’t challenge for the premiership because they have neither the squad or a manager that understands the concept of tactics.

    What is it with Arsenal fans that prevents them laying any kind of responsibility at the feet of Wenger after all he is supposed to be the manager.

    Its not Wenger its the media…

    Its not Wenger its the referees.

    Ridiculous like so many who post on this site…

  • Mandy Dodd

    Strange this fixture….seem to remember they always sent us mike dean during arrys time. Wonder what’s going on?

  • Yassin


    You are either a troll or a blind, Go worship what the media tells you, you know am sick of your type who listen to the media sh*t and come here and starts this “You are deluded” and “Its all Wenger fault”. You can`t deny what I saw with my eyes. and you are just a liar as the media is. Go troll somewhere else cause you are totally pathetic and disgusting!!!

  • Other than the Goal-line incident, there were SOOo many decisons against us.

    No red card for Ryan Mason for stud up foul on Ozil
    Handball in first half in SPurs’s box
    penalty on wilshere
    penalty on kosiscenly in first half during corner

  • Yassin

    Just look at the response from Wenger on the Referee. There is something not right that he knows!!!

  • jayramfootball

    As I understand it when the ball crosses the line , the ref gets a signal. That data must exist and the FA and PGMOL owe it to the game to clear this up…

  • Yassin


    Add a penalty by Kaboul on Welbeck in the first half.

    Non-replay for an incident where Ozil was going into the box, and our players asked for a handball.

    Spurs goal came after a foul that was NOT a foul.

    Lamela should have been booked and red carded after in the first half. and if the same excuse was applied on Wilshere on his first foul, he could have saved the goal with a foul.

    Should I go on….???

  • yeah Yassin so much to list down.

  • Leon


    I am a liar and you are a fuck wit…

    Every team has decisions go against them every week and no one spouts about conspiracy theories.

    The problem is not the referee’s or the media who have absolutely no affect on HOW we play.

    The manager takes responsibility for how we play and the way we played today was not good enough to win the game simple as.

    If Arsenal had played well and scored two or three we would not be having this conversation but they didn’t so you cling to what if’s and conspiracy theories.

    I guess it must have been a conspiracy theory last season when we got hammered by Chelsea, Liverpool and City then…

    And it would have helped if he had played the one player who was in good scoring form – but that must have been a conspiracy as well..

    I would rather be a troll than a deluded idiot but hey ho – thats your problem 🙂

  • Yassin


    So you started name calling, great, now its time for Tony, Walter to ban you. How about this conspiracy theory?

    Go the link above and see the damn incident and then come back and tell me who is a liar, liar!

  • I have been a regular reader of Untold Arsenal since August 2013, after what at emirates against Villa.

    After reading about the PGMOL, FIFA, UEFA, Refs, media, AAA, etc by the Tony, Walter, Don, Bulldog, Andrew and others, really opened my eyes as an Arsenal fan.

    But as season gone by the matters are getting worse against us, don’t know why.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Well, it seems English refs are lenient on time wasting according to wenger. Let’s put this into practice and set ourselves up so we can do the same at Chelsea…..and see if Atkinson probably….or whoever is ref let’s us away with it. No kamikaze stuff I hope this time.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    Doesn’t look like a goal to me. Too many draws this season. Not looking good unless we can get a bit more predatory up front. Injuries are building up too. Tough start to the season.

  • Phew, got home at about 2220 and feel I played the game. It is exhausting being a spectator in matches like that.

    And so many comments to read and digest from throughout the day too. Thanks Walter for writing up your report. And to everyone for their thoughts.

    Still searching for Nick’s review in Dutch – although to be fair Walter, I’d also allow it in Gaelic. (One has to be reasonable about these things).

  • AL

    Why does your video become fuzzy at the point loris makes contact with the ball? Was it edited? Anyway, showing the video from that angle, back of goal, is always going to make it look like it wasn’t a goal. Sideways or from above the goal are better angles.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    @Al, I’d love to think that was a goal but even my ancient eyes can see that ball never crossed the line and I’ve looked at it about twenty times. And when Lloris makes contact he’s at least on his line so the ball couldn’t have been over it then. No goal sadly.

  • Pat

    It’s frustrating because I honestly believe we are the best team in the league. We play the best football. That match between us and Manchester City was the best premier league match this season so far. We have great players who are skilful and never stop fighting all match.

    But because teams are allowed to come and basically NOT PLAY against us but kick us, defend and waste time, we are not getting the points we deserve. That is down to the refs for sure.

    Now we have these injuries, some if not all ultimately the result of violent conduct unpunished on the pitch.

    Anyway, what can we do but keep playing and keep fighting? And supporters keep supporting. And keep our eyes open, especially for the conduct of the referees. You can tell from Arsene Wenger’s comments that he is pretty angry underneath.

  • Jerry

    @Chapman’s Ghost,

    You don’t find it odd that a perfectly clear video all of a sudden gets blurry when the ball is approaching Lloris?

    Can’t tell from that angle either way, but from the live angle that showed it looked like it might have just been in. Either way, nothing we can do about that, Arsenal players have to learn that all games are them against the other team + refs. The team dominated the game, but sometimes luck is just not on your side.

  • bjtgooner

    The reason why the video goes blurry is that it has been edited (badly by an amateur), so no conclusions can be drawn from it.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    Typical. MOTD coverage. Definitely a fix no mention of any of the key incidents.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    The video is blurry yes but seeing as Lloris’ body is in the way and on the line the ball could not have crossed the line, it’s impossible. And the video technology backs that up. After the save the ball does not cross the line.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Indeed Andrew,

    did that reporter even see the definite kick on the ankle of Wilshere in the penalty area? No, what is he sitting there?

    Did they show a replay of the goal line incident? No.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Chapman’s ghost,

    Then why don’t they show it from the goal line camera in real vision? On a not blurry tv screen?

    In fact if it crossed the line or not is not that important. The fact that apparently Sky who showed the match live and the BBC in MOTD decide to only show the same angle of this incident is telling a (sad and strange) story. The same story that has been told in Italy some 10 years ago…

    They could have put the story to bed with showing it but they decided not to do this.

  • AL

    Yeah, no mention of the goal line incident. You wonder what purpose the analysis serves if key moments are omitted. Anyway, imo this confirms there’s general collusion in England to stich Arsenal.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Agree, wenger seems angry Pat. Have said it before, but hope Ivan using his position to get us fair play.
    The injuries are worrying, very worrying. Shad has a rep of bulking players up a bit apparently… there some,sort of adjustment problem going on here? We all know about the kicking and the pgmol…..but some of these bizarre injuries appear at least to be off the ball…..and a lot of soft tissue injuries….think there is work to be done there. Or are earlier kickings doing the damage? But OG, Debuchy, Ramsey,
    Arteta……all pretty wierd injuries. Strange the likes of Arteta and Ramsey suffering… WC….but I guess history of injuries. Having said that, what happened to Jack should have been punished.

  • Yassin

    @Chapman Ghost,
    The ball was bouncing, this can ve a reason for it not to look like in, or this can be a reason for it to look in the net in the before mentioned pic, posted by Usama.

    That said, I think the goallime technology was manipulated, the position shown was not the nearest to the goal, in fact it was at the first touch, the ball then either passed or bouned over the goal line, why would this not be shown?
    Ofcoarse this question is not for you, its for those media dudes who claim to be honest and they are a bunch of cheats. Why not show the wilshere incident like what they did in the Man-Lieceter game? Or Liverpool-Everton first half?

  • AL

    Chapman, that video was edited, simple. Its as bad as the sky one used during the match, if not worse, and if you can’t see that then perhaps you need to invest in a pair of glasses. Why are you defending such a shody edit, I don’t think you edited that but admit there’s something wrong with that clip. Anyway, that someone saw it fit to edit it shows there’s something to hide there, doesn’t it. Why would anyone go to pains editing a video if there was nothing wrong.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Certain things not highlighted on motd or in the media. A couple of north west teams struggling, can’t be letting us get too far ahead of them.

  • bjtgooner


    If Loris’s body was on the line when he – according to you – made the save, why is his body suddenly behind the line as he finally pushes the ball away?

    As I stated earlier – because this particular piece has been edited, no conclusion can be made.

  • AL

    In fact, I will probably go further and request Tony/Walter to pull that misleading and offending clip down if possible. It’s an obvious ploy to hide the truth, and I don’t think it a good idea anyone searching for that incident comes across that piece of propaganda on UA and comes to the conclusion it was a none goal. It’s kind of defeating our cause here.

  • Yassin

    The video is not edited, this was taken by a fan I guess, and the camera changed concetration when zooming which made the blurr.

    Still that said, I still cant be sure if the ball didnt pass as it was bouncing, we need another angle.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    In what way is the video edited? Sorry I’m not video expert but I can’t see what’s wrong with that video. Lloris is on the line when he pushes the ball away so I can’t see how the whole of the ball could be over the line and once he pushes it away it clearly doesn’t cross the line. That’s bloody obvious as you can see the ball always in front of the line. I want it to be a goal, not that it matters now, as much as anyone but it just isn’t.

    @Al, how is that an offending clip? Because it doesn’t agree with your views? I understand your blatant bias because that’s how you respond to any argument that might be not to Arsenal’s benefit and that’s fine because I understand how some supporters never accept any objective views. I prefer to be objective. To each his own.

  • AL

    Sorry Yassin, don’t agree that’s a video taken by a fan with a mobile phone. You can see the camera is moving, with the goal getting closer and almost going under the camera. Where would the fan have been to achieve such a shot? Impossible.

  • Jerry


    It depends on the angle of the video. In this video in Youtube, it looks like the ball crosses over.

    One quick note before you watch it, you have to watch on the first load, because for some reason after the first play for me, it becomes blurry for all the ones after, unless I reload it up.

    I’ve made a screen shot also if Walter or anyone wants.

  • AL

    Blatant bias? And that is how I respond to any argument not viewed as to Arsenal’s benefit?I don’t know what you’re trying to say, not making much sense to me. But shouldn’t being biased for the club one claims to support be viewed as a good thing.

    I question things that don’t make sense to me, nothing wrong with that. When I spot an obvious glaring ommission of information, like many others here, question that. You on the other hand dig up evidence that is supposed to show we have nothing to complain about. There wouldn’t be anything wrong with that too, if only the evidence was genuine. Not some edited clips. I take it your lack of IT skills makes you think it’s impossible to edit such a video. It’s not. Anyway, if my bias is pro Arsenal then I’m proud of it. I somehow get the feeling yours isn’t, and that’s your problem.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    @Jerry, thanks for the link but to be fair how can you tell anything from that distance and angle? I can’t see any way you could tell whether the ball crossed the line from that.

    @Al, yes it’s taken from a phone but it’s not edited which you claimed and just because the phone camera moves it doesn’t make the video invalid. It’s the best video I’ve seen of the incident and I think it proves no goal. Yassin claimed the ball may have bounced over line but I can’t see how, it is always in front of the goal line.

    Anyway frustrating game especially as Spurs look really average. Hope we can bury the Turks.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    @Al, that ain’t edited, don’t be silly. I prefer to be objective, I’ve read loads of your posts and you are always biased which makes any argument pointless. As I said I understand it but I’m way past the age were lying to myself makes me happy. The truth hurts sometimes but you man up and face it. That wasn’t a goal, get over it, stop lying to yourself. And apologies if that causes you offence but it’s late and I’m fed up with another two points dropped.

  • Blaisehayest

    Goal or no goal Ozil and Wilshere were lucky to finish that game on two feet. The tackle on Ozil should have been a straight red and the foul against Wilshere should have been a penalty and possibly red. It’s so easy to set the tone early in a match as a referee and that is the real shame. When teams are allowed to kick us they usually do. At one point one of the announcers basically said, and I’m paraphrasing because I don’t feel like finding it with the fast forward button, that the game wasn’t physical (re: violent) enough for a derby game. There was no “zip” whatever that means.

    I’m not sure how but something needs to be done about the kicking our players are receiving week in week out. At this rate we’re going to finish the season with academy players. Arteta hadn’t misplaced a pass before he had to be taken out and the game changed when Flamini came on. I haven’t re-watched the game yet but I’m sure that when I do I’ll see a kick to Arteta’s calf at some point.

    Sorry to ramble but one more thing. Ramsey hasn’t been performing as well as he can, I don’t think anyone will argue that point. But who the fuck was booing him in the first half. Some of our fellow “supporters” have learned absolutely nothing and it sickens me.

  • apo Armani


    You are a ridiculous excuse of a ‘supporter’…I would HATE to sit next to you and watch an Arsenal game; you would push me to the limit of any tolerance!! and to boot YOU HAVE NO MANNERS!!

    On the other side of the coin; YES we dropped two points one can seriously argue, but again we plaid against 12 players, again park the bus tactics, with some serious contenders for red card/s from the SPUDS!!!

    I injuries are growing BECAUSE OF THIS!

    We should have taken better care of our chances and the possession we had…BUT WE SURE DID TRY!!!

  • apo Armani

    *The injuries…

  • Micheal Ram

    The referee should have controlled the players from the beginning, he failed to do so and floodlights opened for Toots very early to start kicking Arsenal. The ratio of foul and cards for Arsenal players was ridiculous while Toots kept kicking. Five Toots players should have been off the field as well as their manager. Felt really sorry for Flamini considering last season’s fixture. Koscielny was a monster and Chambers/Gibbs was like White Cafu/RobertoCarlos. Ox bullied and literally tired out Rose. Wilshere was impressive but will be world class if he improves his decision makings. The best game I have seen from Kaboul and Vertonghen. Finally, the last say is for Ozil. At last, he showed what is he capable of. Like a freeking commanding general. Running, probing, passing and creating from the first minute to the very end. Many didn’t notice when Flamini sulked after his error, Ozil lifted his whole team with words and most importantly, with his play. Stepped up after conceding, every attack went through him. He made everybody better around him. The best and the most mature performance I have seen from Ozil in any team. Though Arsenal dropped two points, the match brought the best from our No 10, looking forward for the storm he will create this season. After all, we are still unbeaten. Ozil vs Fabregas next!

  • apo Armani

    @Michael Ram…WELL SAID!

  • AL

    No offence taken. I’ve also read loads of your posts to know that you are always undermining the manager by your snide and underhand remarks. As you may have noticed, about three or four people have also said they think that video was edited. We have lots of people like you here who discount tonnes and tonnes of evidence that UA has put up here, as meaningless. I find it ironic that after having spent much of your time dismissing swathes of meticulously gathered evidence on UA as baseless, you want to use a poorly edited and obviously tampered with video as evidence. Is it because the evidence this time supports your argument that Arsenal were rubbish? That would seem to be the case to me; evidence is baseless when it’s supposed to show Arsenal as victims in your view.

    Anyway, I was only trying to make you see the obvious, I never believed for a moment I could change your negative views on Arsenal.

  • duduspace

    It wasn’t a goal. I could clearly see the Ref checking his watch to see if it recorded a goal and The pictures shown on TV also don’t show a goal. The reason why the twitter pics look like a goal is because the ball bounced up.

  • JohnW

    When two teams come onto a football pitch, they both expect to win the game. So for you to say that only losers can be satisfied with the result is itself insulting. Both teams were given 90 minutes and both did not win, our Arsenal was one of those. Yes, it was two points dropped because we were much better, but I don’t think we should shoot someone just because we did not win. It was a derby, and sometimes we have lost it even when we’re the better team. Our focus should now be on Chelsea, not the Tinnies who were lucky to survive. We will get them in our own good time, moreover at their place, and sort them out for good this season.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    @Al, what negative views? Just because that wasn’t a goal, as is clearly shown and by the way you’re the only person who thinks it was edited which it clearly wasn’t, that hardly translates into negative views.

    I’ve said it before that I believe Wenger is building a title winning team slowly and I don’t expect immediate results as he’s only had little over a year with access to bigger funds. I think his targets are set for his last year of contract and that it’s a risky game to play when you have restless footballers who want success quickly but if he can add to the quality of this squad with more quality then we’ll be fighting for first with much more of a chance. He’s been very unlucky in that the team have suffered injuries already. The only thing I find mystifying is his reluctance to buy either a top DM which I feel we need as Flamini is not consistent and prone to making reckless tackles and mistakes.

  • TommieGun

    A few thoughts after some sleep and some cooldown.

    1. I believe we were robbed by the ref, who, amazingly, did his best to prevent the Spuds from kicking us off the pitch. I don’t remember the last time a ref took out so many yellow cards, some of them without giving 17 prior warnings. However, that foul on Jack was 100% penalty and I can’t believe no one is talking about it.

    2. Injuries? Luck? I just don’t get it. Those muscle injuries are really annoying. Probably down to hard training and a tough scheudle. What annoys me more is that we lost 2 players in midfield – an area where we are relatively deep. More rotation? I don’t know. But losing both Arteta and Ramsey is definetly a big blow.

    This guy (an Arsenal fan BTW) runs this blog, and writes quite a lot about the physical and psychological demands players need to cope with – and their dire consequences. A recommended read (it’s not just that one post – there are about 5 of them).

    3. The result was bad not just because we paid for ONE mistake – it’s the other way around. Spurs are a shitty, shitty team this year. Much shittier than I remember for at least 5 years. They fuckin stink. Aside from Loris and Kaboul, no one played for them last night. Can’t string 3 passes, can’t defend without conceding cards, just inept. As happy as I am for them suffering, it’s really frustrating we did not destroy them, at home. We should be able to win against such a team, even when robbed of a penalty or two. I am serious, they are THAT bad in my opinion.

    4. The above is actually mitigated by the fact that we DID play very well, put in a huge effort, suffered from 2 major injuries and truly made only one mistake. However, and for me this is the most important point of my post – I was concerned from the very first moment I saw our formation.

    I’ll explain, and will try to back it up as much as I can.

    Yesterday, and most matches we played this year (aside from the Villa match), we played 4-1-4-1, with a holding MF (Arteta/Flamini), Jack and Rambo in the center, Ozil on the left and someone else on the right (Ox, Sanchez, Santi).

    The pattern that I seem to recoginze is the following: (a) Jack and Rambo try to occupy the same space and get in each other’s way. It is due, in my opinion, to their football character: never say die, defiant , brave football. Those guys are not afraid to take on 3 guys and just dribble (albeit Ramsey somewhat more varied, with some movement to the right flanks at times). (b) Ozil is much less effective on the left than in the middle, as, almost contradictory to (especially) Jack, he does not try to take the ball forward by himself, and rather drift to either flank and create something from there. (c) So, the result of playing Jack and Rambo in the middle and Ozil on the left is a stuck attack.

    It was clearly visible in the first half: brave Jack tried to go forward alone, sometimes it worked, usually he got fouled – but we did not accomplish much by it; Ramsey did not get forward and to the right flank as much as he wanted, since he needed to stay nearer to the DMF; almost all of our left-sided action was Gibbs going forward rather than Ozil creating magic; and almost all of the positive attacking moves in the first half, came from Ox – who is the only comfortable player in this formation, and has immense power and pace to help himself past any defense.

    And then we lost 2 players, and changed to 4-5-1/4-3-3, with Flam in the DMF role, Jack in the center, and Ozil playing in the forward tip of our midfield. The second half was an Ozil masterclass. Jack was much more effective, too (but he got tired and frankly I think if Arsene hadn’t subbed him he would have been injured by their constant fouling).

    This brings me to last year. From what I remember, we did not play many games with Rambo and Jack together, as, sadly, they were both injured for some time and did not have that many chances to play together. However, I DO remember that in those instances where they DID play together, Jack played in the left flank (and was quite good at it too) leaving the middle for the Ozmeister.

    So why change to this 4-1-4-1? First of all, because it might help get our best players playing together. Second, because maybe this system CAN work better with a pivot-like center forward (like Giroud), who can help the second line of midfield make an overlapping run (Ramsey and Jack are imeense at that). However, Welbeck is not that kind of forward – he is much quicker, much more nimble – but he does not win those aerial battles like Giroud (which is fine by me – he has many other attributes).

    All in all, my conclusion (for now) is that when we play Oz in the middle, and EITHER Jack OR Rambo in the center of midfield – we look much sharper.

  • Sally Pally

    We were very unlucky in this game but the defending was poor for the Spurs goal.

    Jerry, imo, your youtube clip shows that the ball went at least 8 to 12 inches further in the goal than what was show. The goal line technology is supposed to show the moment where the ball is furthest inside the goal. The Sky replays clearly don’t show this moment but they show the bit where Lloris palms the ball away. The ball was going backwards before hitting the ground, where the back spin on the ball takes it back out of goal and forward BEFORE the slow Lloris touches it. So, it is clear that the goal line freeze clip is NOT the moment when the ball is furthest inside the goal. Anyone can see that it was at least 8″ further in BEFORE what we are allowed to see post-editing. It may not have been 100% over the line but it was at least 80% in, so what we have been shown definitely is NOT the furthest in moment. It’s touch and go. We were screaming at the blatant editing from sky by the time we finally got so see the (edited) clip. Hmm, very dubious to say the least.

    But we should have created more from our dominance and not have to dwell on something that may not have been a goal. We’ll probably never know the truth now but the truth is that the injuries probably cost us and that is what is most worrying. The team is showing signs of excellence except in defence. If we push high against Chelsea then they will annihilate us. I believe that we should play the same way they do and concentrate on the counter. That is not in Wenger’s nature, even though we clearly now have the ideal players to do this. There were signs last season that Wenger finally gave up the tippy-tappy but now he feels he has the team that can do tippy tappy again. Fine, in a game like that yesterday it might have worked but against Chelsea I don’t think so. Hopefully Bould will persuade Wenger and the players to mix it up a bit. Chelsea will be severely tested if we do.

    I fear that we have too many injuries already this year, despite a very large squad of top players. Looking at City and Chelsea, they don;t often seem to have more than 1 or 2 players injured. We seem to average about 6 season after season, so how could we ever win the title unless that is sorted out? It worries me and I expect it worries you lot equally.

  • SA Gunner

    Sadly I believe Leon is right, perhaps not with tone but very much on content.

    We are a mess, positionally, tactically, with urgency, directness of play, the list ges on and on.

    The Villa game gave me hope regarding Wenger adjusting to counter the opposition but against Spurs we reverted back to our almost pointless football yet again.

    A clear sign, look at our performances before and after going behind. Why is it so different I ask.

    We are going to be slaughtered next week at Chelski, I wish Tony and Walter well in trying to put a positive spin on that game. Perhaps the gentlemen wont need to and I would have to eat humble pie. Would be marvelous but Im not too hopeful on that.

    Another possibility is another red herring, like seen this week, to divert our attention.

    Wenger does not have the answers anymore sadly.

    Ill be back next week to comment regardless of the result.

  • blacksheep63

    well I guess what all this shows is how exercised we all get playing our effluent neighbours, goodness knows what this stream will look like after we play the affluent bunch next weekend!

    I was there and I saw one side working very hard not to lose and another working very hard to try and win. If I was a Spud I’d be relieved but rather unimpressed with my team. As a Gooner I am very disappointed not to win a game in which we were much the better side but relieved we did not lose it. Those of you who post from abroad don’t have to go into work on Monday mornings after the derby: losing is simply NOT an option.

    I think Chamber’s yellow rules him out of Chelsea and that is a bigger loss than Arteta and Ramsey at the moment. The team with Alexis, Özil and Cazorla is faster and we were a better side in the second half. That said it would be good if we had some back-up that wasn’t just a half-fit Diaby. I wonder if le Boss will dip into the transfer kitty at xmas and so I think we need to be patient (again), as @Chapman’s Ghost notes, we are building a title team – its not there yet.

    In fighting amongst ourselves only serves to upset and disunite us; if we are all Arsenal supporters then we all want the same thing so I’d suggest @Leon is allowed to offer his opinion without abuse, but by the same token he could tone it down a touch. As for Nick’s assessment of Walter’s English, Tony and I met some Belgian Gooners at the ground yesterday (were you there Nick?) who travel 20-30 more times a season home and away to watch the Arsenal. I value their opinions (expressed in perfect English)because they’ve earned the right to express them.

    let’s play nice epeople

  • AL

    Ok, we have to agree to disagree. If you look at the posts again you’ll find a few people agreed that your clip must have been edited. Don’t know how you could miss that.
    Anyway, two things raise some questions;

    1. Why was Sky’s replay not show the moment the ball was furthest into the net? (see Sally’s post for a better description). Loris palmed/pushed the ball more than once, and the second or time is when the ball is where goal line technology should have been used to clear the mix up, but it was edited to show only the moment loris first made contact with the ball, which noone thinks is the moment the ball crossed the line.

    2. Your clip went blurry at the decisive moment.

    Why do we have two videos that both appear to have been edited at the point of contention? (the sky video and the one you posted?). At the very least they present inconclusive evidence at the critical part, whether that’s coincidence or a deliberate attempt by someone to subvert the truth I don’t know. To me, that suggests someone is trying to tamper with the video footage, in order to create a view that something did or did not happen. Jerry’s clip, which is clear with no freezes or such, albeit short,seems to tell a different story. If your clip didn’t all go fuzzy and blurry at the point of impact we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But like Sky’s clip, yours conveniently developed an “issue” at the critical point. Too convenient for my liking.

  • Mick

    I see the media are unanimous in ignoring the stamp (which should have resulted in a penalty for us) on Wilshere’s ankle which caused him to ‘turn’ it as they put it. The way they report it you would think it was an accident rather than the consequence of an illegal Spurs challenge. It’s very strange that when one of their darlings like Sterling goes down with minimal contact ‘he was entitled to go down there was contact so it was a penalty’ whereas if it is one of ours upended ‘there was not enough contact, he went down too easily’ is the polar opposite type reaction from these hypocritical halfwits.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Whenever one person stands up and says ,” Wait a minute , this is wrong .”, it helps other people do the same .
    Gloria Steinem.

  • Rantetta

    Cast your minds back to the World Cup.
    There was a match where the goal line technology was criticised by commentators. (I think it was the first time in the tourney the technology was needed).

    It took the operators 2 or 3 “passes” to eventually show the correct decision, as there was more than one phase that needed to be shown.
    (So at first it was No Goal, and then it was Yes Goal. remember that?)
    Why only one “pass” to show whether the ball crossed the line?

    MOTD: When JW10’s ankle was stamped on by Danny Fking Rose, plundit Pierce said, “contact on the bottom of the shin – right on the end of the toe. All eyes will be on him on the Arsenal bench, to see if he’ll be able to run off the problem”.
    No mention of it being a penalty although it was obvious.

    The match edit showed the slow motion of the foul, then immediately showed Jack running again – as though nothing had really happened. Naturally, there was no talk about penalties from Gary, Ruud or Phil. What did you expect?

  • AL

    I recall that incident in the WC too. That was analysed and discussed at length. The thing we should be doing as Arsenal fans is to ask why, if it is indeed the case, would the broadcaster like Sky be choosing to not show the real angle that they know had people thinking was that a goal. Because if that ball did cross the line, but this was not shown to the world, then this will have some serious implications for our game. Why would sky choose to lie? Does goal line technology actually work? Did the ref get a bleep or warning that it was a goal but chose to ignore it?

    I watched the match with a utd supporting cousin, and when sky showed their replay of the incident we both went hmm, that’s not the point we think shows whether the ball crossed the line or not. These are the questions we should be getting answers to. We know we have been accused of being deluded, being paranoid of conspiracy theories, always whingeing, etc. I think there has been some incidents in recent years that have left people wondering if there’s collusion between the broadcaster, the pgmol and other involved in running football. Some of these include the Clatternburg/Miked incident the Gibbs sending of when it should have been the ox…. This incident, if proven otherwise, could give us an opportunity to show us the inner workings of the relationship between sky and the pgmol. I don’t think there’s much debate about how that replay by sky did not serve it’s purpose, as the bit that was shown was NOT the bit people wanted clarified. The question is why. The least I expect from Arsenal fans is asking some of these questions, not making some run of the mill comments a la plundits such as no goal for me when there are some obvious things about the whole thing that should prompt questions.

  • apo Armani

    Jacks’ kick on the ankle was a PENALTY…no need to see that 10 times and ref was RIGHT there!

    As for Goal-line technology; if its going to be left up to these BIASED televises to be the source of images then we will get one angle views ONLY with any of our SHOUTS and 200 angle views for the USUAL favorites of SKY Prrtt!!

    Makes a real mockery out of the so called technology – does it not?!

  • Chapman's Ghost

    @Al, there was no need for the technology after Lloris pushed the ball away as it went nowhere close to crossing the line, not the whole ball which has to cross the line. I have to say it looks like the ball barely went close to the line. I think one other person states that the clip was edited with absolutely no proof whatsoever. Even Yassin who is equally as strong in his views regarding Arsenal being cheated by refs doesn’t think it’s edited. I’ve no idea how anyone could believe it was. Of course I want it to go in, nothing more I’d like better, but that was never a goal. If Spurs had that shot and they’d given a goal everyone would be moaning and upholding their belief in goal line technology.

    Contrary to what you might think I’m 100% behind our team and I expect our season will improve but it’s worrying that we can’t beat a very poor Spurs side and that injuries are once again mounting. We really have to be more ruthless up front, we have to hope Welbeck becomes more influential and we have to use our possession more successfully. If we weren’t so injury prone every season we’d be up there fighting for the league I’m sure.

  • finsbury

    We can put comments like “Jack Wilshere bruises easily” made by BBC plundits in recent weeks into their proper context: he will certainly bruise easily if the official and plundits keep on ignoring fairly obvious and blatant ankle stamps (here’s a clue, they are fouls) on the player, often made inside the pelanty area, game after game. Walcott, Arteta, Rambo, Debuchy, and Wilshere all have had their ankles obviously targeted, it’s not a debate it’s an observation. The narrative being shovelled down people’s throats is that Jack Wilshere invites the challenges. As in: “he doesn’t like it up ‘im…” etc.
    There is a fairly obvious pelanty embargo going on and no one can even attempt to deny what is being observed and recorded game after game.

    It is, what it is.

  • Andrew

    No leadership on or off the pitch. Clueless manager without any tactics. Too many players in the comfort zone. We’ll be exposed for what we are at the scumbags place Sunday. Against a manager who knows how to win and fire up his players. Wenger never beaten that ar5ehole in over 20 attempts. Disgraceful. Embarrassing

  • Yassin


    You are clueless, you know nothing about football, neither about tactics, so stop this bull****!!!
    And stop praising that manager who use dark tactics and against the rule plays to get a win.

    You know what a bad time we are living in, when you see how the most honest well mannered man is being insulted to be as bad as that thing you call ” a manager who knows how to win”. Have some dignity!!!

  • Josif

    “I remember when Walter wrote about Ramsey how all his game needed was less fear of killing someone by scoring more goals.

    That pretty much sums up my view on The Ox. I have a feeling we have a lot of goals in him waiting to be scored. I’ll say it again: he can be as good as Wayne Rooney at top of his game used to be, except not that ugly.”

    I didn’t have to wait for too long to hear Chamberlain’s response (well, regarding goals, he is yet to respond to my comparison with Rooney):

    “It’s nice to get a goal today and it’s contributed to a good point but I will be trying to get more.”

  • AL

    I’m absolutely convinced by now that your not being IT savvy makes you think it’s difficult to edit these clips. FYI I can easily do that, using my phone too. It’s easy. Why would anyone do it? Is there a shortage of spurs fans out there. They’ll do it for the same reason Sky did it.

    As for others questioning the authenticity of the video I count 3, myself included. Surely you can’t fail to see that 3 people questioned this. As for Yassin saying the video was not edited, I think you can see that stems from his thinking that the clip was shot by a fan using a phone. I offered an alternative, which I think Yassin was happy with as he didn’t come back questioning it, that angle was too high to have been from a mobile phone. Besides, if it really was a fan filming that, you’d at least see hands being raised by the fans in front of him. In this case no head, hand, nothing.

    I can see that you basing most of your argument on the clip that I’m questioning, so that argument is flawed. Don’t you think that by uploading different clips of this incident online from different individuals shows this is a talking point. Why would we be seeing all these clips and stills if it was a straightforward case as you put it.
    Clearly I can see we’re miles apart in our online views regarding this incident, so I suggest you hold your view, while I hold mine.

  • AL

    we’re miles apart in our views…

  • Independent gooner

    I feel compelled to post on untold.
    Why is that it’s never Wenger’s fault.
    You blame the referee, goal line technology, the pitch, windy conditions etc but you never ascribe any blame to Wenger.

    Starting the season with 6 defenders.
    Not buying a quality defending e midfielder and relying on the likes of Flamini.
    Loading up average players on a £185,000,000 wage bill, third in the league.
    Buying a £43,000,000 world class player and playing him continuously out of position.

    Yes! It’s never Wenger’s fault.

    Notice I tried really hard not to name-call.
    Untold is living up to its reputation

  • jayramfootball

    Wow – there are a lot of people on this thread completely missing the point regarding the NON replays of the goal line incident. Whether the video is edited or not, whether it was over the line or not is completely and utterly irrelevant to the debate. The fact is that both Sky and the BBC REFUSED to show the footage just after the ‘save’ was made by Lloris. He got his hand to the ball when it was NOT over the line and that is where the replays and goal line technology stop. We all saw the game live and know that Lloris parried the ball sideways fell back into his goal, the ball heading towards the corner of the goal.

    The point is quite simple – Why are we not being shown a replay and still image of the ball when it appeared in real time to have crossed the line at the CORNER of the goal??? It seem incredible that it could deb completely stonewalled. Its like stopping a replay of a goal that the goal keeper got a hand to right at the moment he touched it. No sense whatsoever, unless it is being purposely done.

    My view is that the lack of replays is completely on purpose because it would call into question goal line technology and why the ref did not act o a prompt of a goal signalled on his watch at the moment of the event. Basically showing that still image of a ball across the line would conclusively prove that either the referee was cheating OR goal line technology failed. THAT is why we have not seen it on any official source. An investigation would then have to be launched.

  • apo Armani

    September 28, 2014 at 6:02 pm

    I COMPLETELY AGREE with you on this; there is something defo is ‘fishy’ about this!!

  • apo Armani

    September 27, 2014 at 11:53 pm
    “Yeah, no mention of the goal line incident. You wonder what purpose the analysis serves if key moments are omitted. Anyway, imo this confirms there’s general collusion in England to stich Arsenal.”


  • jayramfootball

    For those who want to see the actual footage untouched – on Arsenal TV – I am sure you know where it is… but just in case here is the link: watch from 7mins. 50 secs.

    Anyone who watches can not possibly deny that the second scoop of the ball AFTER the initial save by Lloris is being ignored by ALL replays on TV.

  • DMF

    I would be more concerned if the ref had actually been seen checking his watch and ignoring it. The goal line tech may just in fact be deficient but this is a far cry from england’s goal vs. germany when it was clearly clawed back. This site is starting to sound a lot like conspiracy theory sites to the point of paranoia. I love Wenger, I love Arsenal and what they represent. I also love the idea of grading refs. I just have no time to read about people moaning about ‘what could have been’. The close calls of this nature and other potential penalties etc would probably be ignored if we were killing teams. But we’re not so the moan brigade needs a target to point fingers at.

    I will not excuse the state of officiating or the awful media in England 🙂 As a north american blessed with instant video replays in the major sports as well as a much more forgiving media -it’s CLEARLY awful but you know what? That’s the playing field!

    Hopefully the ref reports will correct that in the future – but until then Arsenal CAN win despite the media and the refs, but right now I don’t think they’re playing like they deserve to.

    Suck it up whiners, it’s going to be a wild season, every team is dropping points and Man U is on the verge of becoming the next leeds. This is what makes the EPL so entertaining! I had a blast watching the game, even if it ended in a draw. Winning isn’t everything and not everyone is out to get Arsenal.

  • jayramfootball

    Yet more pundit mastery after the Spurs game – apparently only Chelsea and City have the defensive games capable of winning the league and Arsenal can not possibly win it because we concede too many goals. A cursory glance at the table shows that we have conceded 7 goals so far. City and Chelsea have indeed conceded far fewer – both having conceded 7. Go figure. Apparently its not the same our 7 though – its a different 7 that is better.

  • apo Armani

    September 28, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    Yes maybe we have the 7 with the little line through it 🙂

  • AL

    Thanks again for putting it so eloquently. I’ve seen potential handballs get 5 or 6 replays (Wilshere’s possible handball at Villa being a good example) from different angles. But the lack of replays on this one is just strange. And like you say, the ball can hit a player on the knee, and bounce off in any direction. Showing a replay that only shows the ball making contact with the knee, then freeze the picture, is absolutely bonkers. I’m kind of surprised, and disappointed, that there doesn’t seem to be much noise being made on here and elsewhere about this. Especially when some amongst us even argue to the contrary.

  • jayramfootball


    Your first sentence is exactly what I am concerned about too. If the ref got a signal and did nothing about it. It is really very simple. Just show the goal line technology at the correct place and IF it was over the line we have two scenarios.

    1) the ref got a signal and cheated
    2) goal line technology is not working

    If the ball is shown as not over the line, no harm no foul. But NOT showing the replay is what is causing the suspicion.

    this is not about whining after the game – its about the future of the game. If the ball was indeed over the line then the two points above (or one of them) desperately needs correcting.

  • AL

    Some good points both. We know these can happen, and refs can miss them, which is why people were able to move on after the lampard incident as there was no doubt the ball crossed the line, but the officials missed it. But in this case, we have 3 different entities; the ref, goalline technology, and the TV replays. In the Lampard incident we only had two, of which the TV replays confirmed it was a goal, and people accepted it was an error by officials. However, in the incident yesterday all three independent entities appear to have ‘malfunctioned’ all at once. That’s what’s causing all these questions. I don’t think if TV replays had been shown to conclusively show where the ball ended we’d be talking about this. Suspicions will arise when there is such an anomaly.

  • FatherJack

    The problems you guys have is, the thrashing never happened. The easy win so many many Arsenal fans predicted in blogs, articles and comment boxes all over the place on the internet and it never came and a draw happened so the excuses are being searched for, little incidents, looking at the game so blinkered at things that didn’t happen.

    I admit it is worrying that the goal line technology wasn’t working properly but the replays are inconclusive unlike a few comments on here saying it was so clear, it’s not. Arsenal were just as guilty with the bad tackles and getting decisions for themselves. As for the time wasting and playing defensive, you guys and especially Mr Wenger forgets the 1-0 win at the lane last season wheer you took an early lead and then didn’t play the rest of the game.

    Poor Spurs side, should of beaten them, but they have had two great performances, QPR and Sunderland with the Sunderland game really should of been a win. Arsenal haven’t played well this season except for those crazy few minutes against Villa but the way you guys are acting, it’s been great performances all round. The media hate Spurs has much as Arsenal in certain sections, try reading jamie Redknapp’s ramblings. Everything that happens to Arsenal happens to Spurs and every other team, stop trying to be Liverpool fans and acting the victims.

    You should really concentrate on the game against Chelsea now, I really pity you guys for that game and I’m thinking it’s going to be a miserable day for you all, but hey I could be wrong, if I am so be it, I won’t lose sleep over it.

    Peace Out.

  • DMF

    @AL great point about goal line anamolies. Arsenal would not be the sole team targetted by the PGMOL with goal line issues if goal line issues were wantonly caused. Thus I guarantee we will see if this is actually happening and it will be very difficult to keep it under wraps.

  • apo Armani

    I would like to see an official stance on the matter of Goal-line technology from ARSENAL F.C, and in particular the incident after BFG’s header, as well as the deliberate OMISSION by the broadcaster to show the replays (as ought to) by linking the replays to into GLT until the phase of play is complete (NOT A PART OF IT ONLY).

    ARSENAL F.C surely has seen this, and has to act accordingly!!

  • Mike T

    @apo Armani

    You like many others have whipped yourself into a frenzy on this.

    The goal line technology including its maintenance is down to Arsenal as a club. The equipment isn’t mobile its a significant fixture within the stadium. There is a direct feed to the broadcaster but it is not they who have responsibility for its calibration etc .

    Hawkeye doesn’t rely on the TV pictures that are broadcast.

    The live feeds from the game would have all been available to the home club along as the game progressed and I think that in addition Arsenal would have had some of their own footage.

    Quite simply Arsenal wont get involved and certainly wont comment for they will know, like just about everyone else does, that the ball wasn’t over the line.