Sometimes the notion of freedom of speech seems only to work one way.

By Walter Broeckx

It seems that some so called and according to some non existing part of Arsenal fans have launched another kind of attack on our website.

As I was involved in other things and had other things to take care off I admit we may have been a bit careless on allowing comments.

Unlike other blogs who change comments to make people look like fools we are rather liberal in our approach. Maybe too liberal? As a result a few people have slipped under the radar. And allowed the site to turn in to some play ground. Now they have their own playground so there is no need to come and destroy our own play ground.

The tactics were rather simple as always. People using different names and mail addresses to talk to themselves. Then they congratulate their other “I” with his brilliant view and so add weight to that view. And so they talk to each other as if they are complete strangers. But alas for them our system can pick those things up. But to do this one has to go one step deeper than we usually do as we trust most people to be honest. Well that was obviously not the case.

We also had a few old friends revisit us after having been banned before.  But you see our system remembers those people and we can link them back to their old personality. But yet again you have to dig a bit deeper.

But like we said we are both believers in free speech and thus are very liberal in who we allow and maybe we also have too much faith in the honesty of people.  And it does take time to check that out and that is not always possible as we also do have other things to do besides writing for Untold and keeping the site alive.

So I think our regular readers owe an apology for letting our site being polluted the last couple of days.

I will try to keep a closer look on people who comment in the next days. If you find someone who just copies and paste from other websites please let us know and we will ban them. If you think someone is doing the same tricks as explained above please let it be known and we will try to check it.

And now that we are it. Some have accused us of splitting the fan base. But as far as I know our readers don’t go on other websites to disrupt them. Some have accused us of inventing an enemy. But yet it is that non-existing enemy that comes on here with only one thing in their mind: to make our blog a bad place.

Let it be clear. Untold is untold and as long as Tony lets me edit and write for Untold I will not change. Our blog is there for those people who want to get away from the negativity. So if you want to spread negativity we can only advise you that this is not the right place to do it.

And no it is not because we don’t like a debate. Many other people who have different points of view are welcome over here. But if you make arrangements in order to invade our website and make it impossible for our regular readers to do what we want to do you are passing the lines.

We will not do what some of you tried to do on the sites you like. We are not interested in doing such things. Some of you clearly are.

And then we get accused of causing trouble?

If you really are Arsenal supporters you should be happy that there are supporters out there for whom the word support still means something. But how ridiculous this must sound to you.  We are only interested in supporting the team. Supporting the players. And yes supporting the manager. And there is nothing wrong with doing that.

If you want to feel miserable, then that is your personal choice. But don’t take other people with you on that road unless they also want to feel that way.

We will stay Untold for the people who want to feel good about our club. And who want to find a safe haven when things don’t go our way from time to time. As things usually don’t go our way the whole season. But that is just part of the whole experience.

Celebrate the good times together with like minded people and supporters and find support with each other when things go against us when it happens. You may find this stupid, ridiculous but nobody forces you to read what we write or to come to here.

That is it for now from my part. Let us not concentrate back on to why we are really here for: Arsenal Football Club.

Come on you Gunners.

Victoria Concordia Crescit (alas it has no meaning any more to some it seems…..)

There are the usual details of today’s anniversaries and recent articles on the home page.

66 Replies to “Sometimes the notion of freedom of speech seems only to work one way.”

  1. Walter – Great. Thank you.

    Must admit the controversial thread seems to have calmed down a bit now after your weeding exercise, although I suspect Untold broke it’s all-time record for comments? It just amazes me how some people will ONLY focus on the negatives while ignoring the positives.

    I will try harder not to be wound up by the trolls – but I find it hard to ignore the assaults on common sense and common decency.

  2. Haters gonna hate it’s a pretty poor damnation of human kind that so called fans can spend there time posting negativity about anything and everything regarding the football club they ‘pretend’ to support,Be aware its not just Arsenal its all clubs,(vis a vis Newcastle right now), Its a form of submissive bullying when they feel the victim is weak and the poster feels that his opinion will carry clout, if some like minded individuals agree with them, its usually at a ‘soft target, such as an under pressure manager.CEO , owner, or an aging player who will be replaced in the nearer future,They have no long term strategy and see them getting there own short term way as the only way, at Newcastle for example, Ashley should ask the complaining fans to pay up Pardew’s contract for him and also pull up the extra it will cost to hire a top class replacement, not many will be shouting then, Haters will blend reality with fantasy to help them prove there cause.

  3. Very well said Walter!!

    Here is a similar situation that I get (or at least used to get) every time we played a key game; a friend (Arsenal ‘supporter’) would call me when we conceded or something went against us to be the MR.NEGATIVE ‘ANALYST’!!!

    I have stopped answering his calls during and after games…I talk to him a couple days after 🙂

  4. it is an unfortunate trait of human nature that we are more likely to complain about something than praise. How many times have you eaten in a restaurant, stayed at a hotel, or bought something in a shop, and, having receiving good service, bothered to write, call or email to say ‘thank you’, that was excellent? Occasional perhaps. But we are much quicker to pen an angry letter of complaint if we feel we have had what we are entitled to.

    and this is partly about entitlement. Somehow because we choose to support this or that football team we feel we have a right to moan and demand change. Even those that go to every game home and away have no such ‘right’. Yes we can all express an opinion – we should have played so-and-so, he should have been subbed, if only we’d signed X – but denigrating the team, the club, the manager? No, I don’t think we should do that.

    but that’s just my opinion

  5. Dear ‘Untold Arsenal’,

    I`m 66 years old, have been supporting Arsenal since my dad took me to see them play Blackburn Rovers in the mid-50s; Mel Charles had just signed for them and he missed a penalty!

    Of all the various Gooner websites I prefer this one, as the comments seem genuine and are not just narcissistic self-aggrandisement… well, mostly

    Whatever happened to informed debate, rather than scornful put-downs ?

    Keep up the good work.

    Ando from Aussie

  6. It is strange Walter that Spurs result did divide opinion very quickly? I should confess, but you probably know already, I only write and comment on one site, and comment occasionally here. But the same negativity appeared on there as well.

    But you are right in thinking that the negativity can spread to others. Mostly because of repetition of similar phrases, and followed by ‘same old, same old’ type comments, after any game?

    Remaining positive is a long term view.

    Keep up the good work.

  7. I think Goonerholic manages to maintain a fairly healthy and constructive comment section but suspect he moderates quite actively!

  8. To be able to spout negative thinking on our future, after a mere 6 games in a long hard season, is an art form to be proud of.

  9. Nicky – 6 games unbeaten, to boot. Including Everton, Man C and Sp*rs. We have actually had a pretty tough start – and with Chelsea to come next as well. Let’s hope we can get some of our injured players repaired over the international break and then kick on hard. In fact, may be a good time to put a small wager on after the Chelsea game as the bookies don’t seem to take much account of variation in fixture schedules (not that I am a gambler, but do follow things like this).

  10. A lovely little quote came to my attention today:

    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, it’ll sh*t all over the board and strut around like it won anyway.

  11. Great write up Walter. For some reason many people think freedom of speech gives you a right to be abusive and toxic buts thats not the case. Thanks to social media these minority screamers have been given a platform to air negativity and spread malcontent even when there is none. Being on twitter and not flowing with narratives will bring you abuse and you will be called a “deluded cunt”. A good example of people getting that treatment is Adi and George(co-founders of Positively Arsenal) but they still keep fighting the trolls like we do here.Thankfully there is a block and newly introduced mute button to clean up your timeline. There are many sane people

  12. @Pete,
    Exactly. That is why I cannot understand the doom and gloom expressed by so many, so early in our season.
    And it happens every year!!!!!

  13. Well said and done Walter (and Tony) you are a cedit to yourselves and the Club.

  14. Giroud contract extension i can understand even though it worries me that with Wellbeck, it probably means we are not going to be signing a real world class striker in the near future but extending Arteta`s contract???? Wenger should be sacked fro gross incompetence. This smacks of Denison and Bentner again, where we extended and improved contracts fro dead wood and then were stuck with them for years to come…..Idiot

  15. Excellent article Walter.

    I really enjoy reading this site.

    My main concern is that other users seem to wish to chat to each other on subjects totally unrelated to the subject of the article.

    I fully understand that diversification is often acceptable, but we will soon be told what various people had for breakfast.


  16. It’s easier to expect failure, and be pleased by success than it is to expect success and be disappointed by failure. At least if they expect failure, they can soothe their hurt by thinking they were right all along.

    It’s more cathartic to vent your frustration about the managers choices than to simply accept it’s not something that fans have any say in.

    People pay to watch, and think they pay for a say.

    Arsenal shares are a little bit more expensive than that, I’m afraid.

  17. Insulting our own players and manager will no longer be allowed and will result in bans.

  18. I have decided that the way to curb my impulse to debate(?) with the provocateurs is to start playing troll bingo. So a point for each of the following:

    6 Defenders
    £8 million a year
    Arsene FC
    (Beast of a) DM
    Dereliction of Duty
    Doesn’t do Tactics
    (Lack of winning) Mentality
    Specialist in Failure
    Taken us as far as he can
    Use of CAPITALS
    Wenger Out
    Zonal Marking (obviously in a negative context)

    Look forward to some other suggestions. At least I can now cross off “9 years without a trophy” from my list…

  19. @Walter start with Carim. Have to say im all for banning idiots as they have polluted this site enough and they need to go. Some may say thats dictatorship but would you be allowed to post a positive comment on le groan and get away with it? You would be abused, laughed at and called deluded cunt. BAN THEM ALL!!!

  20. I may be a little biased with a French mum and in my lifetime a French team that has actually won the world cup and European title, a team that not only had zidane but a number of arsenal players, but for me when wenger came it was an absolute godsend. The difference in the way the team started playing was incredible. The Trophies collected at the start of the wenger reign and the way we competed with the then ‘British’ team man up urs was great. It’s funny now in the press there is no mention of how many BRITISH players arsenal have in the staring 11 – I make it 5 when fit theo, Rambo, jack, Gibbs, Welbeck and chamber the ox (although ox has a great shout of cementing a first team place now) on the bench, and how other teams have gone the ‘foreign’ route man city, man utd, Chelsea suddenly there is no outrage of fielding a predominantly foreign team!! I was hoping that the British core of players would turn things around when it came to referees as a with JT sherear Rooney we would be given some leeway that we never used to have,unnfortunatly this does not seem to be the case. Going back to my family ties my family and friends in France have always held arsene in the highest esteem and the press unlike the British press and we are now the blueprint for a team going from a big domestic team to one that has a truly global appeal. Arsene in the last 8 years has blooded English youth ((anyone who remembers his comments about English youngsters 15 years ago now see that as long as they have the required quality he will play them) and stayed competitive whilst on a restricted budget whilst the stadium was built. Wenger will be revered in years to come as a magician and the same aaa’s that slate wenger will be calling out whoever our next managers are and harping back to the wenger era – guaranteed. We just need to ignore these idiots. Every club has them and unfortunately so do we. But let the majority of us support the great man!

  21. When I travel abroad I am very careful to try and respect the laws, traditions and in truth as far as possible I am well mannered( I say that following mehurling abuse at a pick pocket I caught red handed on the Paris Metro when we there earlier in the year for the PSG game)

    Many others that travel abroad think they can do what they want and when the law comes down on them they blame everyone else bar themselves.

    As I have said in the past when I post on here I do so from the view point of a Chelsea supporter and whilst I am fully aware that this site is a pro AW site and I know my views sometimes provoke a storm I personally think you need to be very careful if you ban, edit or whatever those that don’t agree with the majority’s view.

    I personally believe that when a debate descends to personal insults or abuse then those who post in such a way get everything they deserve and sorry that surely must include both those that are pro or anti an issue.

    Supporting your manager & you players is of course a much stated aim of this site. I acknowledge that but if this means supporting them no matter what they do, say or behave is far to open ended. What would be the view be if one of your players bite an opposition player or AW was replaced by say Jose?

    Surely constructive and respectful comments even if they make your blood boil should be welcome for to not even to acknowledge another view will ultimately be the death knell of this forum.

  22. One more point – I do not believe that the press will revere wenger the way they should until England wins a major tournament with arsenal players in the team. If England had done well at this world cop just gone bread and roger would have got the plaudits, as arsenal players were injured and not able to affect the outcome. 4 years from now we may have a chance. With ox jack welbz Calum all maturing – we may do it!!

  23. Thanks Walter, Tony and the whole Untold team for standing strong and continuing this oasis of Arsenal support.

    Thanks esxste for that quote!

  24. Mike T,
    We like to keep you over here for other views. As they are usually said in a respectful way. Of course in the heat of an argument things can get hot a bit. But I don’t really remember that with you to where it got out of hand. If it has happened at all.

    But when people use two different names to confirm his one point of view then we face something else. It is a form of cheating and I don’t think we have to allow that.

    About the insults. I have said it many times before and will stand by it: an insult is not an opinion. And certainly when the victim of the insults is one of our own.

    Mind you I don’t mind an insult thrown at others 😉 but not at Arsenal players or the manager. I will always try to respect them and give them the respect they need. As for some Chelsea manager…. 🙂

  25. Walter. I think the comments made by that chap iwantwengersbabies and the fact that he decided to create such an intelligent user name for his visits yesterday, speaks volumes. This behaviour is indicative of a person with low IQ who believes swearing and abusing people on a public blog is clever. This is not about a wenger in or wenger out debate. He will be the type that visits blogs discussing other subjects, perhaps the Middle east, and acts in exactly the same way. He is just one of those disrespectful people that behaves badly and thinks it is clever. As you cannot debate with these types, there is no point entertaining them. Either ban or ignore them. Simple.

    Our club deserves so much better than having these types joining the long queue of Arsenal detractors.

  26. @ Walter


    I play a good old English pub game called skittles.

    Every Friday we have huge discussions and varying views about just about everything. We have an Everton season ticket holder, a Everton one and of course me a Chelsea season ticket holder. We all love football and defend our clubs, even though that isn’t easy but when another two who have season tickets to Bath Rugby attack football in general we three close ranks.

    I have no doubt that all that post on here are football supporters and our clubs are just that our clubs and long may that reign

  27. I have been a regular reader and admirer of this site, kindly continue the good work. Please what’s d English Version of Victoria Concordia Crescit

  28. Mike T
    Good point. I do not believe the discussion on here is about not allowing opposing views. That would be wrong in my opinion. It is about how a person expresses those views – how they conduct themselves.Coming on here as a group and deciding to abuse people is totally unacceptable behaviour. Certain words should be added to the banned list and any person using that word should be binned. There could be women and children on here, where is the self respect.

  29. The term “AKB” was invented by this group of people so that they could attack any who disagree with them, so that they could attack Arsenal Football Club.

    In their construct, memes, propaganda, they never refer to the values of the club that pre-date the current manager, the marriage between the club and manager. Because that would expose the fallacy of their posture. They never refer to Fizman’s deathbed handover on their blogs in their constant gibberish. Which is very odd, considering the melodrama involved in that story, and their apparent obsession. Completely and utterly disingenuous. Supported by the most vile of the extreme right wing press (as exposed and proven in various court cases of late) in the UK, or from press owned by Oligarch’s.

    They are exactly as Tony has described them to be.

    I wonder about the associations with agents and other nexus’. The Bleeb certainly don’t like AFCs mode of practice, which is why the organisation has been observed to attack the club for not being nice or accommodating to agents, this was what the Bleeb journalists said last summer. Their words, not mine.

  30. Corr.:!
    AKB was originally an ironic self-deprecating term used by Arsenal fans. In jest. Never serious. It was co-opted and then turned into a term of abuse to attack anyone who wanted to support the manager of their football club, who didn’t want to look as stupid or banal as the fans of Blackburn and currently Newcastle…

  31. @ Dannywhites – did you see the youth Champions League squad last week – 13 of the 14 players used were British.

  32. ok, this really cracked me up. so these people masquerade as some1 else? its like dressing up and having a go at each other or agree with each other but the only thing is that they are in front on a mirror. now that really takes some brains.

  33. Although I understand the need for moderation on this site, does this only apply to non regulars? For example , yesterday, a regular(a chap named bjtgooner) was on my back for a comment I made, one which wasn’t insulting to any Arsenal FC personnel or even referring to him(bjtgooner). I was repeatedly called an @rsehole, and even when I asked him to ignore my comments, he replied with more insults. I understand that many newcomers tend to be abusive, hence the moderation, but should anybody who agrees with the author’s standpoint be allowed to spurge obscenities at anybody?

  34. Jamie. There has to be one rule for all, I agree. But when you look at the remarks made by iwanttohavewnegersbabies, they wouldnt be acceptable on a self help blog for tourettes.

  35. Walter and Tony, Thank you very much for continuing to try and keep this a positive site!

  36. Jamie good point often regulars post obscene comments conveniently overlooked by Untold smacks of one rule for one ( insiders ) one for dissenters .

  37. It’s not like AB above has attempted and failed to heckle commentators here. So lame.

    Same old same old 😉

  38. Fed up of James Cagney impersonators ‘ You dirty rat you ‘ taught my kids early on sticks and stones .

  39. @ Pete -October 1, 2014 at 10:43 am
    – Elephant in the room ?
    – Lost the plot ?

  40. A woman gets on a bus with her baby.

    The bus driver says: “Ugh, that’s the ugliest baby I’ve ever seen!”
    The woman walks to the rear of the bus and sits down, fuming.
    She says to a man next to her: “The driver just insulted me!”
    The man says: “You go up there and tell him off. Go on, I’ll hold your monkey for you.”

  41. An AAAA fell down a wishing well, I was amazed, I never knew they worked.

  42. The AAAA rang up British Telecom and said, “I want to report a nuisance caller.”
    He said ,”Not you again”.

  43. One things for sure when youve had a bad day, Dr.Brickfields can always cure it with a laugh or some philosoph!
    Cheers Bricks!

  44. Thanks ,Kenneth ! Its goodnight from me .

    ” Doc, I can’t stop singing the ‘Green Green Grass of Home”.
    He said: “That sounds like Tom Jones syndrome”.
    “Is it common?”I asked.
    “It’s not unusual” he replied.

  45. Just carry on doing what you are already doing on this site…..a few jump ties , many of whom have to copy and paste the thoughts of others are of little consequence in any scheme of things.
    Troll bingo….great idea, would add anything to do with Chelsea or their manager to that list, the forums these guys seem to originate from do seem suspiciously fond of all things Chelsea.

  46. @ Robl Thanks I didn’t see the squad but will look it up 😉 and that is exactly what I am talking about! now that arsene has youth squads that are trained to good technical level from a young age we are starting to see the benefits coming through for us.COYG!

  47. Great article Walter and I fully endorse your comments.

    @Jamie @ 1.29pm

    Lets be accurate. You were not called an @rsehole – you were called an asshole – which is slightly more polite! 🙂

    Don’t play the victim. You entered a debate between two other contributors and used a ridiculous analogy to undermine one of them – that was when you were categorized as an asshole.

    All this when the thread in question was under severe attack from the AAAAs using multiple log ins – your comment appeared to support the AAAA attack, if you are not part of the AAAA no doubt that will be established by you later comments.

  48. It seems to me that UA promotes careful and considered opinions that are backed up by rational and cohesive arguments and facts, even if they contradict other posters opinions. We are NOT all entitled to express our opinions however, only to hold them and IF we choose to express them we have to be able to defend them intelligently and respectfully, otherwise they aren’t opinions but monologues and rants. Anyone posting on this site must realize a few basic truths about UA:

    1)UA welcomes positive criticism of anything Arsenal,
    2)UA is designed to support the team, the manager and the Club regardless of or in appreciation of said positive criticism,
    3)Ceaseless and incessant negativity and demeaning, repetitive anti-Arsenal rants are a sure sign of mental weakness, faulty character and moral bankruptcy common to the AAA trolls.
    4)If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen as Harry Truman said….that means troll behaviour will engender being flamed,mocked and scorned by UA regulars and true Arsenal supporters…get used to it.
    5) UA doesn’t always get it right but our hearts are in the right place….give us the benefit of the doubt.

  49. Thanks Brickfields and Mandy for the Troll Bingo thoughts. Did some more surfing last night and have added:

    Doesn’t Teach Defence
    OGL / Our Glorious Leader

    So current list is:

    6 Defenders
    £8 million a year
    Arsene FC
    (Beast of a) DM
    Dereliction of Duty
    Doesn’t do Tactics
    Doesn’t teach Defence
    Elephant in the Room
    Lack of Ambition
    Losing Mentality
    Lost the Plot
    One Trophy in X Years
    Our Glorious Leader / OGL
    Senile Old Man
    Specialist in Failure
    Taken us as far as he can
    Use of CAPITALS
    Wenger Out
    Zonal Marking (obviously in a negative context)

    I will be watching out (and scoring). Sadly, the trolls all seem to have vanished. Is it because we won well last night or Walter has banned them or a bit of both?

  50. I don’t like posting links, but this one might well shed a lot of light on the internet based AAA.

    Here is a key quote: “Both trolls and sadists feel sadistic glee at the distress of others,” the researchers, from the University of Manitoba in Canada, wrote in the study. “Sadists just want to have fun … and the Internet is their playground!”

    So, the next time you see a Troll, recognise that you are simply dealing with a sadist. If they make you suffer, they win. You can’t reason with them, because that isn’t why there are there. They want to cause you pain not to talk.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *