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Wenger out, Klopp out, all out or not for all?

By Walter Broeckx

The media smell blood and want Arsenal supporters to revolt against Arsène Wenger. So they open all registers to open up the attack on our manager.

We have never made it a secret that we support our manager because we think that he deserves our support. Even more in difficult times. Because that is when support really becomes support.

When you read the articles in newspapers and on other blogs who are crying out lout that Wenger should get the sack the first name that comes on the list is the one of the current Borussia Dortmund manager: Jurgen Klopp.  The part of our supporters that wants Wenger out sees him as the answer to all our problems. Bring in Klopp and we will win the PL, the CL, the FA cup and probably the World cup for teams next season and the newly competition that will bring in teams from Mars, Venus, Jupiter and whatever planet they play football and that will be called the Universe Cup.

Now let me first say that I highly rate Klopp. Let me say that again: I very very highly rate Klopp as a manager. After all he has won two league titles in 2011 and 2012 with Dortmund. And won the German cup in 2012. And the super cup in 2013 and 2014.

So yes a great manager and I think that every WOB, AAA en AKB supporter will agree with that. He is a top manager.

And when you look at the CL group we are in we can only see that his team seems to be too strong for the rest. 4 games played and 4 wins. So why would any sane person be against bringing in Klopp?

Well that is if you didn’t look at the league table in the Bundesliga this season.

Before they went in to their match on Sunday it said:

15. Werder Bremen 10 pts.

16. Hamburg 9 pts

17. Stuttgart 9 pts

18. Borussia Dortmund 8 pts.

Yes this is no typing error from my part. Borussia Dortmund was bottom of the league table in the Bundesliga before their match. A match which they won. 1-0. Against Borrussia Monchengladbach.

A win that came from one of the most ridiculous own goals I have seen and I have seen a few in my life. Just take a look and enjoy well that is you enjoy people having bad luck . Just think how our supporters would react to poor Kramer the scorer of the own goal? Would this guy ever get another chance if he would be an Arsenal player and done the same? I would give him another chance but we all know that a lot out there would never give him another chance.

But this own goal was the only reason why Borussia Dortmund isn’t sitting at the bottom of the Bundesliga now. A team managed by Jurgen Klopp.

How would Arsenal supporters react to Arsenal sitting last in the PL after 10 matches?  Let us compare a few things between Dortmund and Arsenal.

Both played 11 matches.

Arsenal wins 4 – Dortmund wins 3

Arsenal draws 5 – Dortmund draws 1

Arsenal losses 2 – Dortmund losses 7 (seven)

Points behind a CL play off spot Arsenal 1 pt – Dortmund 9 pts.

 

Could you imagine the hysteria if we would be Dortmund now? So how does Borussia Dortmund react? The club said a few days ago that there is no talk about Klopp being sacked. They said: Only Klopp can end his contract with us. Sounds a bit familiar? Well that is about the same that the board once said about Wenger.  Note that both boards are not that hysteric as some part of the fans.

And now I just did wrong to Borussia Dortmund supporters. Because if you google “Wenger out” you get around more than 29.000.000 hits. When you google “Klopp out” you get 1.500.000 hits and the first link is to an article that has a title… “Wenger out”.

And those 29.000.000 hits are really about Wenger out from Arsenal supporters and the media. The majority of the Klopp out hits are where he used the word ‘out’ himself when talking about football.

But now look at the facts I just presented to you about the comparison between both teams in their respective league.  So after two set backs in one week we get a part of our fans behaving like hysteric kids wanting to throw out all and everyone. Well supported by a part of the media that wants him out for 18 years.

Imagine if Arsenal had lost to the team that was sitting bottom in the league? It could have happened the other week when we played Burnley. We won 3-0. But when Dortmund played against the bottom team (Hamburg) a few weeks ago they lost at home. 0-1.

And how did the Borussia Dortmund supporters react after the match? Did they boo their team? Did they boo their manager?  In Dortmund they do have a habit of going up to the Sudtribune after each match in Dortmund. And this is how they reacted to this painful defeat. 

Just take two minutes of your time and put the sound on . And then imagine how some of us would react. Of course the Dortmund supporters will not have been happy with the events.  But the Sudtribune  didn’t turn against their own players or against their own manager. Even when losing to the bottom team.

No, they sang to their team and showed their support. As real supporters do when things are tough. Supporting when you win is easy. Supporting when things go against you, that is when support counts and matters.

Where would you have found yourself if it would have been you as a Dortmund supporter in the stadium? Or even at home in front of your TV? Would you turn away in disgust and boo? Would you turn off your TV go on “Untold Dortmund”  and abuse all and everyone who defends the manager? The players?

Or would you when being in the stadium would have joined the Sudtribune? Would you have shouted out in support of the players who just have let you down? Could you? Well they could.

And I can only take off my hat for those supporters. I just did them wrong again. As I should have written in big capitals: SUPPORTERS!

I think it is clear to say where most Untolders would be if it would happen to us. I think we know we would be in the Sudtribune, disappointed but supportive.

81 comments to Wenger out, Klopp out, all out or not for all?

  • frankantz

    has Klopp been in charge of Dortmund for 18 years? Does Klopp have the massive budget Wenger has? Does Klopp play his players out of position?

  • Sumba

    People try to dig the root cause of our problems. But before anyone asks for my management qualifications allow me to sum up our problems into two simple reasons- continuous Poor Technical Decisions and Psychological Problems as a result of the vicious cycle of poor technical decisions. Look at the nervousness shown by Wenger when we are leading 2-0 on any day and you will see the nervousness. He doesn’t trust the system he has created fully. I know most Arsenal fans don’t feel comfortable till the referee blows the final whistle, because we have seen it crumble too many times.

  • major joe

    its so refreshing to read an article that echoes my thinking keep up the good work.

  • Mistamonn

    I am really disappointed in this article. We are supporters of Arsenal football club, period! Wenger is not Arsenal. He only has a first name that sounds like arsenal. If a manager refuses to change with the tide then he should step down. 18 years as manager and you are still making the same mistakes. That means he’s either deluded or too stubborn and arrogant to admit he needs to change his ways. I support a manager IF he is doing right for the club because the club is where my allegiance is, not the manager. So Untold, the question of support for wenger doesn’t arise because a fans ULTIMATE SUPPORT should be for the club and not a manager or player.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    I think the Dortmund fans may have a little patience with Klopp considering his achievements in recent years. He’s won quite a few trophies in the last few years as you pointed out. Most of our fans have supported Wenger for the majority of the last ten years in which we have won one trophy. I think the drop in support has only become noticeable in the last three or four years, fairly patient I’d say. Most of us have accepted that we don’t have the finances to compete with City, Manu or Chelsea but neither have we been totally penniless either which is why we’ve swam above the rest of the EPL mob. Of course Wenger’s management has been of prime importance during this period.

    Now we have more money some think changes will occur immediately. I believe Wenger’s trying to build that league winning team over the next two years. I’d be surprised, and disappointed, if we weren’t at least finishing second in two season’s time and reaching a CL semi final. I’m not even suggesting we should win either or both but with Wenger at the helm and with money available we should have vastly improved. If not then I imagine Wenger will step down.

    As for replacing him I don’t know if Klopp’s the answer. Great managers don’t always travel well. Clough at Leeds springs to mind. And look at McLaren, brilliant for Middlesboro, terrible for England, then guides Twente to their first title and then fails at Wolfsburg.

    I think two managers would improve us, Mourinho and Guardiola. I can’t see either coming to Arsenal and I know most wouldn’t want Mourinho. I’d only like Mourinho so he could tidy up our defence. I certainly don’t like the man but then I didn’t like Terry Neil much either, it’s not about liking the manager but wanting the best for Arsenal. Wenger will almost certainly get us out of the present mire and we’ll be fourth, maybe third, at the end of the season but the title bid is over this year. We at least have one competition we can still win, the FA Cup, and I’d be just as happy winning that again.

  • WalterBroeckx

    LOL at some of the comments from first posters.
    I’m afraid most of you don’t get it.
    You are not standing in the Sudtribune…

  • TC

    Walter, whilst I understand your angle here Wenger’s demise is over a much longer period and his faults have been shown up for a long time – substitutions, playing strategy, buying policy, management of fringe players, handling of young players, players with major faults never get better (eg lack of coaching), injuries that seem more than just bad luck,bias towards French players, etc.

    The build up against Wenger is because of the realization that we never progress we do the same things over and over again so whilst we have had periods of joy the fact is we cannot compete when it really matters and whilst change is of course dangerous we may have to go backwards a while until we build a base that allows us to compete.

    There was a feeling that because we can spend more money now that would do the trick to reach up a level but it is painfully obvious this is not the case so hopes of some magical new player will solve all is not going to happen within this Arsenal environment.

    I have have seen most matches since 1962 so I am red and white through and through so dont accuse me of not supporting the team but I really feel the end of the road has been reached for AW so whilst your stats are interesting I am up for a change. Wenger has had his day and its time to say thanks Arsène you did great but ….

  • Arthur

    Great article and great website! It is the only Arsenal blog worth reading.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Maybe as a first time poster going off subject doesn’t get your comment published.
    This article is about the position you would take. Would you still support your team when they just lost to the bottom club? Or would you moan as you do now?

    If you want to moan about not buying the players you think he should have bought you could read this article http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/38916 and comment on it.

    So comment on the subject or under the right article. If not don’t moan if your comment is not published.

  • WalterBroeckx

    frakantz,
    do you support the team and manager as the Dortmund supporters do when they are in last place?

  • WalterBroeckx

    Oh and for those saying we (and I) are being paid by Wenger or the board could you please pass that information to the board. Because I can’t even get a ticket when Arsenal comes to play in my country let alone that I get any money for writing articles.
    Oh saying such things is another reason for a comment not to pass the moderation.

  • You say all that Walter but what you are not considering is the fact that “any idiot can see what is wrong with Arsenal and the solution” as we get regularly told here. Can any idiot see what is wrong with Dortmund and the solution? Well maybe not as

    Arsene Wenger is a bigger idiot for not seeing the team’s obvious flaws like the geniuses who come on Untold after every unfavourable result.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Mistamon,

    You raise an important point: “So Untold, the question of support for wenger doesn’t arise because a fans ULTIMATE SUPPORT should be for the club and not a manager or player.”

    I fully agree that the ULTIMATE SUPPORT SHOULD BE FOR THE CLUB.

    Well that is the whole point. It is the board of this club that decides on the direction of this club. And it is the board that has decided to go the way we are going. Self sustaining with all the problems that brings in this crazy football world that has gone mad since some 10 years.

    In a way Untold has always backed the board in this because we believe that Arsenal is not for today but for the future and the long term vision OF THE CLUB is what we support. Wenger is the best manager to support that long term vision OF THE CLUB.

  • Chapman's Ghost

    @Walter, I think it’s quite natural to moan after any loss. But then after a few hours you reflect on the game and decide whether your team deserved to lose and then if you accept that, move on. If otherwise, moan on, but it won’t change anything.

    I didn’t stop supporting the club when we lost to Bradford and they weren’t even bottom of the EPL, they were even lower than that. Now and then most big teams lose to lower opposition, that’s what keeps the game interesting, the (very occasional) unpredictability of it.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    I await the day that I’ll have to lower the volume of my tv – not because of the crap pundits ( I already do it now !) , but because of the deafening noise of the very vocal AKBs inside the stadium ! Those who have come to support the team .
    I have this dream ! It will come to pass .
    As it is people allegedly go home early to use the toilets .Or so they have us believe !
    Unbelievable isn’t it ?
    Imagine an AAAA still having crap left after crapping all over the team , other fans and the manager in the stadium !

  • Mandy Dodd

    It has been a bad week by any standards. On the surface, errors are being repeated, weaknesses not dealt with. To many, wenger seems to be going out of his was to re enforce what some believe is wrong with him and his approach to the game. From the outside looking in, I too have been baffled by some of the tactics, substitution, wenger not changing things to help young chambers.
    Certainly builds a picture, and one of the best platforms ever for his critics.
    I believe wenger has made mistakes, ,honest mistakes…….but then again, doesn’t everybody, just not everybody has a pack of hyenas waiting to pounce 24 hours a day.
    There are things that need a bit of attention. There is not that much wrong that cannot be fixed. There are things wrong that it seems he cannot fix, and result in at least some of the injuries…..in surely the worst absentee list he has dealt with?
    So for a man who lives and breathes the club, has done so much for us on all levels, he deserves time. There may be projects and principles he will have to abandon to make us sussessful in this rather unpleasant league. Defending as a team needs looking at, to me this week, he looks like a man who feels let down by a few he has trusted, and nurtured. He has to deal with this head on.
    Things need fixing, we need players back, some who we do have need to play with more discipline, and we possibly need to recruit.
    Stability and results will return, if we recruit well, the team will be stronger.
    This manager and team will prevail, but some on the pitch need to improve a few things as well
    Many will kick him when he’s down, but more will back him and the team

  • Nicky

    Walter,
    There are times each year when fickle followers of our great Club come to the fore.
    If you leave them alone they finish the season praising Arsene as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

  • Joey Boy

    I have nothing but the up most respect for Wenger and what he’s achieved and will never ever fire abuse at his name, but guy’s common?????? While I respect your opinion, I can’t help but think there are other factors that come into play when you write these Wenger sympathetic articles and to be honest, I start zzzzz when you talk about true supporters. It’s the media pushing the Klopp stories; I think you’ll find that many Arsenal supporters just want a young dynamic manger wanting to push the club forward in the right direction. There are plenty of better mangers out there; for you to think there is no replacement for Wenger is absolutely horrifying considering no one new Wenger before he arrived, also the fact that you have more and more discontented commentators on this blog and other shows the voice of the masses. Whether You like it or not, change is coming within the next 3 years, you can kick and scream all you want for Wenger corner but me, my cat, and every supporter a part from you guys can see what’s going on. I know it can be hard for old cats to change their habits and thinking, but as you continue to purvey misconstrued opinions, it’s getting harder and harder for ardent readers to take you seriously.

  • Gunner6

    Those who mention Klopp’s recent success and the patience afforded to him as a result also fail to highlight that probably the only team with any spending power is Bayern M with the rest being pretty much equal (maybe with the exception of Schalke), teams’ tendency to play football rather than rearranging the opposing players’ bone structure, among others. I can’t say anything about referees’ competence because I don’t follow Bundesliga matches sufficiently to make a judgement on this.

    I think the pertinent question instead of winning trophies are that having kept us in the CL successively for the last 18 years, navigating us through the stadium building period, can we all not afford him the privilege of managing us until the end of his current contract at the very least?

    Also, for those who judge success through trophies, why do you think building the stadium and keeping our CL place in the process is not a success in itself?

  • Mandy Dodd

    We do have some fickle fans. Constructive criticism is ok, but many of the most abusive come from a blog whereby a marketing guy in his early thirties who clearly knows nothing about football , yet claims some,sort of inside knowledge and is telling the world wenger is too old, too set in his ways, has gone rogue, knows nothing about tactics, is alienating his backroom staff etc. this guy is not the messiah, he is an early thirties head of digital marketing..
    Guess true fans, whatever they believe just have to make sure they are not sucked into others agenda, don’t want to be an AAA idiot, ain’t no part of a media agenda.

  • Gunner6,

    Why do you go on about the stadium when all the other teams are winning trophies left, right and centre. For goodness sake, the stadium was completed 8 years ago; for how long are you guys going to milk it? (sarcasm off)

    The problems facing Arsenal are so obvious that any idiot can see it and most idiots do as we usually see here on Untold. Perhaps Arsene Wenger is not an idiot (shocking, I know) and that’s why he can’t see it. The clairvoyant idiots might want to take this into consideration.

    Nothing gives people up for being simpletons like trivialising complex issues like top-tier football management or many other complex fields. Why is Klopp’s team flying in the CL and performing so terribly in the Bundesliga? Doesn’t any of the geniuses out there have the “any idiot can see what is wrong with Dortmund and the solution” nonsense to spew? I mean whatever you might say about Arsenal’s situation, we are very likely to get into the CL knockout stage and we are not in the relegation zone after a quarter of the league games. What excactly has Wenger done that is bad?

    Also, nothing gives people up for being myopic or disingenuous than excusing Klopp while excoriating Wenger, who on average, is doing a lot better than his German counterpart.

  • Charlie

    Walter, surely you will at least concede, as Chips Keswick has, that Arsene made a major blunder in not recruiting a centre back and defensive midfielder in the summer. Also the team is incapable of closing out a match, the reason being that they have to attack because they cannot defend. The squad is absurdly weighted in favour of attacking players. The one player that could be described as a defensive midfielder, Flamini, is possibly the weakest member of the first team squad.

  • Charlie

    Look, I am not WOB but for 10 years I have wanted to see a decent defensive midfielder at the club. Right now a CB is also a priority but at times like the this when everyone can see what is required it is just infuriating. Great we’ve spend almost £90m on two world class attacking midfielders but that counts for nothing because the defence continuously throws games away.

  • Gf60

    How many times have I wished the words ” Oh Lord it’s hard to be humble when you’re perfect in every way” would apply to me. But most certainly I’m not and never will be. Neither will AW. Yes, I do think he made bad mistakes on Sunday, but he made a lot less than the players! Which he’s been doing for many years. Just hope he remembers his comment that it takes 15 minutes for a player to get into the pace of a game, because he certainly forgot it on Sunday.

  • bob mac

    GET RID OF WENGER

    ARE YOU SERIOUS OR JUST HAVING A BLOODY LAUGH.

  • Charlie

    Gf60 unfortunately it’s not just a tactical blunder, it’s a consistently exposed weakness that has reoccurred consistently over the previous 10 seasons. There was a time last season when it seemed to have been fixed but the end of last season and the beginning of this season has shown that Arsenal are still defensively weak.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Seriously.
    Someone just posted ‘Arsenal problem is Wenger lack of transfer activity”.

    That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less.

    So the problem is solved for once and for all. 8 words and we found the solution. For ever.

    I think we spend a bit of money lately but that will probably have been in the same dream when we won the FA cup and the non trophy that is the CS.

  • Charlie

    You only have to look at how Flamini is good enough to start and Podolski is only good enough for the bench to see the imbalance.

  • Walter,

    The attack on you for calling the English equivalent of the “Super Cup” a trophy tells you all you need to know about this people. Then they whine when called the AAA that they are.

  • Charlie wrote:

    “You only have to look at how Flamini is good enough to start and Podolski is only good enough for the bench to see the imbalance.”

    One is our only fit DM while the other is one of 4/5 fit strikers.

    This simplistic and monumentally wrong nonsense is in the range of “any idiot can see what is wrong with Arsenal and the solution”. Thanks dude, for showing us who the real idiots are.

  • Tasos

    Walter

    The moaners will moan no matter what.

    When Arsenal win trophies they moan, when Arsenal spend the big money on transfers they moan, when Arsenal sign lucrative new sponsorship deals they moan.

    These maoners are perpetual moaners, it’s comical really but they only ever appear happy when they’re moaning.

    And when Arsene Wenger is no longer the manager of Arsenal FC and the shiny new manager is brought in, you know what, the very same moaners will soon start with the moaning again.

    It’s what they’re good at.

    Good article by the way.

  • Charlie

    Bootoome tell me an injured defensive midfielder. Arteta ? Ok, that’s one although he more a deep lying playmaker. Diaby ? nope he’s not a defensive player by any stretch of the imagination. Wilshere ? he’s about 5’4″ and again he’s not defensive. Truth is there aren’t any and haven’t been since Gilberto Silba left. Alex Song wasn’t bad but his biggest weakness was that he’d be found in the opposition box too often.

  • Mandy Dodd

    They will moan until someone like Usmanov eventually comes in and turns us into Chelsea….then they will moan because they have lost the club some of them grew up with

  • Charlie

    Oh and Bootome Podolski was on the bench while Ozil, Walcott and Gnabry were injured two of whom would certainly be picked ahead of him.

  • Charlie

    The team has thrown away more points from winning positions that any other team in the league this season. To suggest that fans have no right to complain is to treat the club like some kind of cult. Sometimes this site almost resembles propaganda with the level of bias in favour of the manager. There are issues that need to be fixed, if there weren’t the team would be playing a lot better than they are.

  • Menace

    Capability is not an issue with the Arsenal team They are capable of anything on a football field. What is not happening is fixable and Wenger will sort it out.

    Everything will work out in the end, and if it hasn’t then it is not the end.

  • Nicky

    @Mandy Dodd,
    Your 3 comments this morning were well said.
    Every season, when we have setbacks, out come the “experts” demanding Arsene’s head.
    We supporters have no idea of the goings on, both sporting and business, behind the scenes at the Emirates, yet calls are made for action, based on complete ignorance.
    And its the same every year!

  • Begeegs

    Klopp has had his team picked apart for the past few years by Bayern, similar to Wenger up until a couple of years ago and has recent success as well as Dortmund challenging for the title (with probably the exception of last year). Their fans do not pay through the nose to go to their stadium and probably believe that they will turn things around. However, to just use Klopp as an example of a manager who is coveted would be disingenuous because there are a lot more promising managers who would fit the bill as well.

    Wenger, on the other hand, has really made what started off as a promising transfer window into something ridiculous. Going into a season with six established defenders is negligent with the amount of games that we play. Not only that, but to now play a small left back at a position that he hasn’t ever played in before compounds the people getting on his back. And it is warranted because he didn’t strengthen where he should have. He is wedded to Sanogo as well and many fans don’t understand how he gets on the pitch before Podolski when we are chasing a game and even on the bench in front of Joel Campbell. He cries fatigue and plays the same team nearly every week despite the results when we have other players who are seasoned pros and established internationals. And those are just a few examples this year alone.

    So these are why the cries get louder and it isn’t hard to understand. Personally, I wanted him to leave a few seasons ago. I really respect the man for his achievements, but I do wonder if the reports that his influence is in so many things that a football manager shouldn’t be concerned about takes some of his attention to things that do matter.

    What I would like to see from people here is why Wenger should stay.

  • Gunner6

    @Boot

    Are you suggesting the impact of building the new stadium is no longer felt after 6 years? When you win a trophy, everything resets at the start of the new season. When you build a spanking new stadium, the advantages (bigger revenue) and disadvantages (debt and interest payments) are felt far longer. I find it ridiculous to think it has no bearing on the current situation.

  • Tasos

    Arsenal also have a very good record at recovering points from losing positions, possibly the best in the league this season?

  • john

    For a true perspective of our current performance and league status, it is worth remembering the number of points cost by wrong match officials’ decisions. My estimate is 10 points. Whilst there may be debate about the exact number, there is no disputing the basic proposition. Yes, it has been fully documented on previous threads and NO these things do definitely NOT even themselves out over a period.

    If it were not for this, the loss of points at Swansea, through some acknowledged deficiencies in the team performance, would not have such an impact.

  • WalterBroeckx

    insulting Untold will not get your comment published.

    And begeegs there are something in between 3500 – 4500 articles on this site to find reasons why.
    Enjoy it while reading.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Begeegs,

    I stand corrected. There are actually 4752 articles on line on this site saying why we still want Wenger. And while I type this article 4753 should be published (if the software doesn’t let us down)

  • WalterBroeckx

    Which it didn’t apparently (the software I mean)

  • Gunner6,

    I clearly indicated that I was being sarcastic. Look again. No trophy is more important than our stadium to me. Not even the CL trophy.

  • KurtF

    While your faith in Wenger is laudable, there comes a moment when supporting the manager and wanting success for the club become mutually exclusive – based on all evidence, that moment is fast approaching. Certainly Mr Wenger has been under pressure in the past, but what makes this movement different is that everyone (who is truly honest with themselves) can see that our present problems are entirely of Wenger’s making – the decision to go into the season with just 6 defenders (including one who is 19, one who has chronic tendonitis and one who has a terrible injury record) is not only unprofessional, it’s unforgivable. People have long called not for a change of manager, but a change IN the manager – but when it becomes obvious that the manager refuses to change, what options are left?

  • porter

    Nicky it’s the same every year because it’s like watching a groundhog loop with similar mistakes by different people.
    Gunner 6 the stadium debt has been crippling but is now under control and easily serviceable , at least Ivan says so.
    Tasos I think we have recovered to get draws rather than wins. With 4 goals after 80 minutes , 1 got us a win and 3 got us 1 point in games we should have won . Then Ox’s goal against Spurs was late in the game but only another point saver. Agreed they play to the end but should not be in that position in the first place.

  • Tasos

    porter

    Arsenal have the best record in the league at recovering points from losing positions.

    Conversely they also have a poor record (the worst?) at losing points from winning positions this season.

    Should they be criticised for one or the other? or both?

    What this stat is supposed to inform us is open to individual interpretation I suppose.

    If you’re of the negative persuasion then you can take the negative aspects.

  • TommieGun

    This is a great post and a great comparison.

    What happened to Dortumund? Ohhh now that’s so mysterious isn’t it ! They were winning titles, CL semi-finals, gave Bayern Munich – the best club in the world for the past 3 years or so – a very hard fight.

    So they lost Goetze and Lewandowski, but they aquired other great player, didn’t they?

    And surely – even losing the above 2 players, should not result in being in 18thplace !

    And yet another curiosity – however shit they are in Germany, they absolutely ROCK in the CL.

    So … [yes, yes, no one has a clue what went wrong for the Yellow-Blacks…]

    Not even Paul Merson’s german twin.

    I read somewhere that teams in Germany have “learned” how to play against Klopp’s Geggenpresse [the very aggressive pressure] – and European teams haven’t – and that it involves applying aggressive pressure of their own; but it seems like a very lame explanation, as there is no way to “learn” to play against pressure; and applying such pressure in the first place is not easy in itself [so surely lowly German teams who managed to win against Dortmund are not really capable of doing that effectively].

    So here we go again. A team in an apparent crisis, and no one knows why, really. Not even Klopp. I read what he said – we are playing meaningless football, which in iteslf sounds a bit meaningless to me.

    I for one, think that it has a lot to do with psychology, and it actually brings me back to something Pep said after leaving Barca. He said – I felt I could no longer motivate them. To be honest, in my unlearned opinion he is one of the greatest football manager of our era. And that sentence showed me a very important perspective – knowing whether you can have that mysterious, evasive influence on the squad.

    Why do players who used to be great, change all of the sudden, and become rubbish ? And vice versa ?

    For sure, no one in Germany is writing columns after columns, CONTENDING THAT THEY KNOW WHAT’S WRONG.

  • Charlie,

    You posted a comment wondering why DM is being played when a striker isn’t. At best you are incoherent; at worst you are being ignorant. You posted the stupid comment and I called you on it.

    If you are incapable of posting sensible and straight forward comments on an Internet forum, what makes you think you have a clue on how Wenger is doing his job?

  • porter

    Don’t label me Tasos , I make my mind up from what I see on the pitch . In my opinion probably both, as we should not with the skills available to us be in the position of having to scrap for points at the end or should not be in the position of losing them when we have striven to get a decent lead in the first place. Whether it is the manager or the players that are so naive , I am not sure , but I am certain that the coaching staff need to be harder on the players pointing out their mistakes and making sure that they are not repeated . Which is something they have failed to do over a period , maybe that’s where the change is needed.

  • Mike

    I’ve said it beforwe and I’ll say it again; if we won the league with the record of 37 wins and 1 draw, we’d still have people maoniong about the draw. I just wish they’d go somewhere else or realise that their behaviour is destructive rather than helpful.

    Great article again. Substantiated, as always, with evidence and facts………..something the AAA’s seem rather reluctant to do………..but they still expect to be taken seriously LOL

  • TommieGun wrote:

    “For sure, no one in Germany is writing columns after columns, CONTENDING THAT THEY KNOW WHAT’S WRONG.”

    Well, that’s the Germans for you. Say what you may about them but they are not known for being full shit.

  • Pastille

    This morning is the first time for a couple of weeks that I’ve read an Untold blog. It’s also the first time that I have read the comments in any sort of detail for a while. One of the reasons I am not an ardent a reader is that I struggle with the vociferous and unquestionable support you give to Wenger. As someone quite rightly pointed out above, my support is for Arsenal, not Wenger. For Arsenal, not the Board. For Arsenal, not the owner. If I feel that any of those parties is not performing as they should to push the club I support forward, in this day and age of blogs and the ability to publicly share my opinion and thoughts, then I can. And I am as entitled to do that as you are to support Wenger and the Board.

    Your comparison to Klopp is enormously flawed. The man has won 5 trophies in the last 3-4 seasons (he’s only been with the club for 6). He’s taken Dortmund to a CL final. I believe Arsene Wenger got a lot of support on the back of getting to the CL final in 2006, but one FA Cup win in 10 years is a small return from the highest paid manager in European (if not world) football.

    If he’d delivered 5 trophies in the last 3-4 seasons then there is no chance there would be the calls for him to be sacked, regardless of our league position. If you add to that success regular runners up positions in their league (not 3rd or 4th), being regular runners up in domestic cups, and a recent CL final, then there would not be calls for Wenger’s sacking. But that’s not how it is.

    For the last few seasons we’ve often scraped into fourth position (and CL qualification), by the seat of our pants. We’ve lost to teams like Blackburn Rovers and Bradford early on in the domestic cups. Or relegated teams in a final. Or we’ve shipped 5 goals to teams like Reading. When this is compounded with what seems to be tactical naivety against teams like Anderlecht where we give up a 3-0 lead; or Swansea where we make no tactical substitutions until we’ve given up a 1-0 lead with 10 minutes to go; or we seem unable to beat any of our top 4 rivals for seasons on end; or we consistently finish second in our CL group games when winning them should have been a more likely scenario, and therefore come up against the likes of Bayern Munich or Barcelona in the first knock-out games, you have to start questioning what’s going on.

    You could argue tactical naivety. You could argue bad transfer windows. You could argue bad support from the Board. You could argue bad support from the backroom team (scouts, medical, trainers etc). But given that it’s well documented that Wenger has total control over all of these areas you have to start questioning the ability of the manager himself.

    I don’t know whether Klopp is the answer to our problems. I don’t know whether Klopp will be the answer to Dortmund’s domestic problems. But given they’re flying in the CL and only 17 points behind top spot in their league (to our 12 points), we shouldn’t be judging him on current domestic form. What is it that Wenger says every year? Judge him in May? You should do the same for Klopp and put his results into perspective over the last few years. In comparison to Wenger he’s been a far more successful manager in recent years.

  • esxste

    This comment may be upsetting for some to acknowledge, but I hope they do for their own health.

    Your opinion doesn’t matter.

    The Arsenal Board doesn’t come trawling the internet looking for opinions about Wenger or potential replacements.

    Wenger doesn’t trawl the internet looking for the millions of different opinions about what he should do.

    The Arsenal Board employs Wenger and judges him on his performance against the targets they set him.

    You can rant and rave about how they’re not ambitious enough, but the fact is until you can afford to buy all the shares in the club you have limited opportunites to make an impact.

    And it’s clear what those opportunities are:

    You can support the club. Through thick and thin. through the dire performances, the unjust losses, the lucky wins, and the displays of sheer dominance. Through the mistakes, through the victories.

    Or.

    You can profess to be a supporter, but endlessy criticise. Rant and rave on the internet, blame this player, that player, the manager, the physios, the board. You can be the masochist, who finds pleasure in the pain of losing. Pleasure in finding yourself right. If only Wenger would listen to you. And the other 28 million Arsenal fans with an opinion on what he should do.

    One is an Arsenal supporter. The other… I’m not sure a word exists to describe such a sad being.

  • Tasos

    porter

    I wasn’t labelling you. Appologise if it came across that way.

  • Tasos

    porter

    We don’t know for sure if the coaching staff are not already being harder on the players over those issues you describe.

    But then again what gets the better response with the modern day player, the stick or the carrot?

    How many times can you be harder, or punish a player/s before it’s effects wears out in the long term?

  • Alex

    @Bootome
    I read with interest the reply you give to people.

    For you is sacrosancted to write an article in the summer pointing the need of defender and defence midfielder etc…

    I respect for your article and whatever your opinion as matches mine and many opinion.

    I say we shiping goal for those very reason that you ridicule now just for the sake of defending Wenger.
    Mr.Wenger nows it and admitted openly the shortage in that department. Don’t need apologist like you as he is a man of great respect.

    Failure to add a player is the consequence of our failing and arguably there are other points to.

    Either way you heard it the booo an the Emirates and thanks God that was an away game the last game the fans had it enough be it with his tactics or management.
    No matter how much you try to explain I firmily believe that the man knows better than anyone else that his acceptance is degrading by the day.

  • apo Armani

    As ALWAYS, spot on with this article again Walter/Untold!!

    The media and anti-Wenger/AFC lot can harp on ALL they like, but guess what MR.WENGER (to you antis) is STAYING PUT, get used to it!!!

  • apo Armani

    Not so long ago I used to be proud in saying to football friends how AFC supporters were a united truly supportive ‘sea’ of people…how a MINORITY has transformed into a fickle bunch of vindictive, negative ‘drip of water’ – staining this otherwise PROUD club…really amazes me!!! The Media must love you lot!

  • Brickfields Gunners

    “In a good bookroom you feel in some mysterious way that you are absorbing the wisdom contained in all the books through your skin, without even opening them.”
    ― Mark Twain

  • Jerry

    Great article again as usual Walter! All the AAA just want immediate gratification. First, it’s we haven’t won a trophy in X years, then we win one, that trophy doesn’t mean anything. Some people are just never pleased. When this team is healthy, I believe they’re capable of beating any team. Just have to support them until they get it all together.

  • apo Armani

    “29.000.000 hits are really about Wenger out from Arsenal supporters and the media.” And thats NOT counting the televised Anti-AFC/Wenger Propaganda people are being FED!!!

    Its logical to assume most readers are either Lazy to search DEEPER for actual facts regarding the club they ‘support’, or there is so little ‘out there’ in the form of objective/factual journalism, hence making their (fickle ‘supporters’) laziness even more pronounced!!!

  • apo Armani

    I have been dealing and working with Germans for many decades…they don’t ‘jump the gun’, they don’t believe in rumors, instead the search for the TRUTH before committing to wild accusations and OPINIONS!

  • Alex,

    I’d respond to you if I had any idea of what you are talking about.

    Dude, try to be more coherent.

  • apo Armani

    @Bootoomee
    November 12, 2014 at 4:47 pm

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  • GoonerDave

    Its the same old defensive mistakes, coupled with a very weak mentality. We have had the same problems for years.
    The work AW has done within major financial constraints is phenomenal. The massive job he has done at AFC should be appreciated by AFC fans, and applauded by all. But that does not mean he is immune to criticism – and there are loads of fans who really want the man to stay, but to improve our organisation and mentality. Those things cost nothing to sort out, and are regularly mastered by lesser teams.
    We cannot expect to win very much when we are not assured of victory at 3 or 4 nil. Its simply got to stop. Whether its down to tactics, game management or simply personnel, its a massive flaw in our team, and most likely the difference between winning and losing.
    I just find it crazy that the same old mistakes keep on happening, year on year.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Last year Szczesny won the golden glove and Arsenal got most clean sheets (together with Cech). This season our defence looks more vulnerable.

    But how can those two together point at “the same old mistakes happening year on year”?

  • apo Armani

    @WalterBroeckx
    November 12, 2014 at 7:54 pm

    Os it because this summer AW was playing beach football in Brazil?? 🙂

  • apo Armani

    >Is

  • Jammy J

    So refreshing to read! If you want your team to succeed, then booing them is not the answer. A lot of the time the AAA use the argument “we support the club, not the manager” but to me its seems that they do neither. They let their hatred for Wenger spill over into the club. So much negativity on other forums it pains me to see it. Im so proud to support this club/manager and everything it stands for, but these ‘fans’ really bring down the tone. Tbh i wish they would go support Chelsea because then everyone is a winner. We dont have to be put in the same boat as these arseholes and they can go support a club that matches their hateful personalities.

  • Micheal Ram

    I really don’t understand the notion of some supporters support the club, but not the manager. They care about the club but not its employees. How the hell any organization survives without its employees especially the really productive ones? Especially those are in tune with the organizations’ princ I guess these people would rather attend to their dogs’ erratic behavior rather than helping out their neighbors in need. Yeah, treat an animal like a human and a human like an animal. First of all, Arsenal is an private entity not a government. And unlike a country, Arsenal FC is a matter of choice of preference. Never at all a choice of life and death. You don’t go to Walmart and condemn their management of their terms and policies just because you don’t like it. As a customer, you do have the right not to purchase their product and the next logical thing to do after that is to move on to the next store. Even if you paid good money to watch a movie, you don’t go ballistic and demand your money back from management if you hated the movie. Movie is a spectacle, football is a spectacle. If you are passionate about someone or something, you should stick with it even when the going gets tough because the tough gets going. So, all of you whining and bitching pussies out there, stop this childish behavior or take a hike! Go Gunners!

  • Charlie

    Paul Merson spent his entire career playing for Arsenal, at least while he was a decent player. Is he not a fan because he dared to criticize the manager. I totally disagree with this feeling that fans are not fans if they criticize the team. Michael Ram I do not criticize the Wall Mart employees because I do not turn up every Saturday to watch them work, I use the place to buy groceries. Similarly I do not go there because I support them, I go there because they are the nearest supermarket. You are totally missing the point of being a fan.

  • Charlie

    Bootoomee I didn’t realize that I needed to spell everything out so simply. I referred to imbalance as I had just stated in the previous comment. In other words overloaded in attacking positions and threadbare in defensive positions. Well I thought it was obvious. It is as if Arsene has neglected the defensive areas to focus on creating the perfect attacking squad. We do not want an exhibition team like the Harlem Globetrotters, we want a winning team. The Harlem Globetrotters didn’t play in the NBA because if they had the illusion would have been shattered.

  • apo Armani

    @Charlie
    November 13, 2014 at 3:12 am

    Perhaps you should read the newest article (just posted on UA), may explain how we play why we play the way we do. You may then re-think about your comment compering AFC to the Harlem Globetrotters!

  • apo Armani

    @Charlie

    here is the link for you: http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/38943 😉 enjoy!

  • apo Armani

    As for Merson; He should have become a Manager since he has so many ideas and solutions of how to make a successful team…ohhh hold on, he did have a jab (he loves to jab) at that…but decided its best to sit on a post and criticize as a more fitting occupation!!!

  • Andy Mack

    This is the reason Klopp will not come to us. AW is respected across europe as a good manager, by other managers and they see how badly he is treated by some ‘plastic’ fans and the british media, so why would they want the same shit.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Indeed Andy. Klopp and Wenger respect each other a lot and I think that they will talk with each other when they meet on conferences.
    And the rest of the world knows all too well about the constant attacks on Wenger. And the rest of Europe (those who have a brain to think for themselves that is) looks at it in disbelief.
    Of course you have some brainless idiots who just repeat the English media mantra but that is a minority. Most independent news agencies, pundits and certainly managers know what Wenger has done for Arsenal and admire what he did. They know what a genius it takes to keep a team in the top 4 with no money while building the stadium and while having to fight off the oilers.

    The good thing however is our board.
    Yes our board will be vital in recruiting the person who one day will follow Wenger. Not because they have to make the pick but because they have shown that they are much more interested in the long term project than in the “I want it now” from the fans. So a manager that will come over will know that they probably will have a bit of time to move forward.

  • Dana Stubblefield

    It’s the end of the rainbow……

    no matter what happens from now and June, this is Arsene’s last season.

  • Vlad

    Great supportive article but let’s face it, AW vs Klopp direct games offer the best comparison data…and unfortunately we know who is winning that contest. For the past seasons, our gunners defence has been consistently suspect and obviously not drilled enough. Tactically, Chambers and Monreal should have switched places especially after that Swansea game exposed both them. The players have so much time on the ball that they forgot to pull the trigger at the right moment or pass it sooner…but more critically they neglect their defensive duties. This happens so regularly at the games these days that it begs the question…are they even being coached on it? Are they learning from their mistakes? What is the coach doing about it? We have exceptional players, small but gifted and yet we lack some leadership both phisicality and mindset. Is it me or are we missing the Viera, Adams, Bould, Sol types of steel mettle in midfield and defence?