By Walter Broeckx
A few words have been spoken lately about the Borussia Dortmund supporters. Come to think of that… we have mentioned them over the last years on numerous occasions. And most of the time as far as I can remember we only had nice and good words to say. For those like me who have been in Dortmund in the last years it always was a nice experience.
I have known a win, a draw and a defeat in Dortmund. But what struck me always apart from the fact that the seats in the first 2-3 rows are with blocked vision was that the supporters really are supporters.
I remember the first year when we came there. The year we lost Cesc. And the Borussia Dortmund supporters didn’t like the oilers money. And didn’t like the way Cesc left. And each year we were in the same group of the CL I came back. And never did I feel any bad feelings towards Arsenal.
They disliked the oiler teams as much as they dislike Bayern Munich. They long for fair competition just as we do. And they like good football. And they are deeply and madly in love with their club.
Lately we also mentioned ‘the banner’. A few people found the need to unfold a banner asking Wenger to leave. They even had the crazy idea to not join in the celebrations when we scored but to unfold their banner at that moment in time. Some ‘supporters’ who don’t celebrate a goal from their team.
So Arsenal had their worst start in I don’t know how many years. Not that the banner boys care about that really. I think they were the ones hoping for our team to lose heavily against Dortmund. I think they were the ones who suddenly called winning the FA cup no trophy. Let alone winning the CS. Surely since Arsenal won it, it has gone off the list of possible trophies. If we would have lost it…then it would have been a trophy and a missed chance for silverware.
So the boo-boys found it necessary to spoil our moment of joy with their banner. I think the players will appreciate that gesture immensely. At a moment of joy you don’t show that. At the moment we score you celebrate. And that is all you do when we score: celebrate. And if you don’t…then I don’t think you can call yourself a supporter. So I really hope the banner-boys will follow up their advice and say goodbye to Arsenal as soon as possible and thank Wenger for the memories.
Back to Borussia Dortmund. The team that was playing in the CL as a future winner. Well at least till they came to North London and were well beaten by Arsenal. But in the Bundesliga it has all gone wrong for them this season. They had a lot of injuries. But as we have been told over and over again in the last 10 years: injuries are not an excuse for bad results. Arsenal having 10 players out is their own fault. Another team having lots of injuries is bad and an excuse. For Arsenal it isn’t.
But because of all the injuries Borussia Dortmund now is in trouble and the players seemed able to lift themselves in the CL to a high level but paid the price in the Bundesliga. And after the last weekend they now find themselves with the red lantern in their hands. Having the red lantern in your hands is an expression used in German and in Dutch for the team standing last in the league table.
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And what do the Dortmund supporters do? Do they bring banners to the ground where they say that it is time for Klopp to say goodbye? Do they show up at the Untold Dortmund blog (if that exists of course) call everyone who supports the manager fools, deluded, idiots, … (don’t worry Tony I will not use the word- which I didn’t know that was so offensive ) and say : where is his plan B?
On a side note. I notice suddenly a big drop in the amount of voices that wanted us to bring in Klopp and kick Wenger out. No, they are not fickle. Well that is at least what they say of themselves.
No Borussia Dortmund supporters say things like: you have brought us success and now in difficult times we will stick with you. As I have said many times before when your team is winning it is easy to be a supporter. But when things go bad and you have a bad patch, then the real supporters will show up and support the players and the club when they need it most.
But I must admit that supporters of Dortmund do bring banners with them to the ground about their current situation. And the banner is like this and I will translate it below the picture.
“AND WHEN YOU FALL, I WILL BE WITH YOU!”
And that is for me what real support is all about. Last in the league but they will stick with the team and with their manager who has done so much good for the club.
And the sad thing about our own banner boys is that they haven’t got a clue what being really bad is all about. Not one living Arsenal supporter has seen the club play below the top division! But Dortmund has had that experience in the seventies. And even in 2008 they only finished in 13th place. They had 6 seasons with mid table finishes in a row in that decade.
And look at us spoiled Arsenal supporters. We have been in the top 4 for ….as long as we can remember. And yet we moan and bitch whenever we drop points. We ask for the sacking of the manager who has kept us there with no money at a time when we had to fight against teams with infinite money coming in.
Why don’t some do what they say and leave our club as long as Wenger is the manager. No more need to bitch or moan. You could feel happy again and once Wenger is gone and that time will come one day, you can come back happy that he is gone and you can support the club once again. Just say goodbye for a while. There will be plenty of people around to take up the space you left behind. People who will celebrate when we score and will not hold up banners at a time like that.
The Christmas books
- Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football – Arsenal’s early years
- Making the Arsenal – how the modern Arsenal was born in 1910
- The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal
Some other sites from the Untold team (there is a full list on the home page)
- The Arsenal History Society
- UK Education News – the rolling news service
- Dyscalculia on line test and support
- The Direct Marketing blog: direct mail, email, websites, blogs
- The Secret Nurse : what is really going wrong with the NHS?
- Untold Dylan – the music, the lyrics, the meaning of Bob Dylan’s songs.
Only thing that would be better than your ‘leave and wait in football limbo’ for a while suggestion is ‘leave and support Chelsea,City or United’
But actually I’m only thinking of one person- that man Morgan. The fit between Chelsea and Morgan seems absolutely exquisite to me. His tremendous obsequiousness to wealth and power is matched only by the delight he takes in boasting. Truly it would even be the humane thing if it could somehow be facilitated.
Now, to Stoke. It caught my eye that the line-up at OT featured the highest volume of actual ball-players I’ve ever seen in one of their line-ups. What price that continuing? I make it extremely doubtful, and once more it will have me questioning what reason teams could have for not thinking the same tactics they implement for ‘unsettling’ and getting about’ Arsenal shouldn’t be tried on other top clubs.
My guess is that it’s two things : the animosity isn’t there, and they know the ref will likely pull them up for things they should be pulled up for, and maybe a little else besides.
Yep, in the same way Cattermole was brought in by Sunderland after a long spell out last year, and stayed out for some time after the game, I figure they’ll try get any of Whelan, Adams and Walters out there even if they’re half-fit.
Excellent post. Thank you.
“If you only want success, go and support bayern munich”
-jurgen klopp-
Same goes for the AAA, there are so many oilers club who can guarantee success every season, or can they?
Spot on, as always. Personally Im sick of all those stupid, boring moaners. Poor Arsene can do no good for them. Never mind all players and ex-players and people who now about football and who all (but Stewrad so and so) love and respect Wenger. Now they want Sam A-lard-lice to be our manager. How stupid can you get?
“So Arsenal had their worst start in I don’t know how many years. Not that the banner boys care about that really.”
———————————-
The latter half of the above really is lazy writing. Its as if there has become some divine right that only Wenger fans can actually care about the club.
Can’t agree with anyone who calls himself a supporter, but doesn’t cheer when the team score a goal – yes slate them for that, but keep your other thoughts to yourself.
why is there unrest? its because we are not competing. some say that AW does not do defence! if that’s the case, when AW came in 1996, the 1st thing he would had told the back 5, u, u, u, u & u david OUT! but no, he gave them a new lease of life. in 96, I was in India so did not the story about Adams. all we read that he had a drinking problem, had a accident, find alcohol in his blood, was jailed and lost his England captaincy. he was a emotional, physical, mental or whatever wreck u want to call, he was. AW comes him and turns him around. our defence & GK were not world class by any stretch of the imagination, but they were solid, reliable, dependable. did the basic right. Patrick was brought to protect Tony and Keown, due to their age. slowly they were replaced with the invincible’s. we brought Gilberto and the rest is history. some say that the 2005 team was broken up too quickly, don’t know. but AW went for small technical players, but never managed to replicate his previous team. we have seen what he is capable of, but the fact that he ignored certain areas, is what I feel is the bone of contention. the fans can see this.
Such fantastic support from the Borussia fans, massive respect to the them. There was another banner a week or two back that read “You managed us to good times, we’ll support you through the bad time.” They deserve a lot of credit for how they’ve conducted themselves.
There’s a lot that British football culture (clubs, supporters, officials & media) could learn from the Germans.
Yesterday post was realy great .It tells the mind of UT writers.
UT writers are great lawyers for AFC.
In that here the writer is defending the manager.
Question is does he really don’t see Wenger shortcomings ?
I bet he does but he have to defend him.
All my Arsenal friends are angry and are not hiding it this time around.
Just look at yesterday booing when Wenger called the sub.
I didn’t like it to speak of myself.
My understanding is the three games(Ander Sawn Manure)has taken a lot from the fans.
@gouresh
‘its because we are not competing.’
How do you define competing?
@mystic
Its not about being a fan of Wenger to get the license to care about the club. And for this reason Walter is trying to show us that our fans who get to see UEFA CL & EPL games at the highest level week-in/out for Arsenal for more than 15 years are complaining and trying to stir up disturbance in the club.
Meanwhile at Dortmund a manager who has been very successful, now lies in the last place of league ( a nightmare for any manager, club and fans alike). There the fans didn’t called for Klopp’s head in every match, but instead are trying to be hopeful, trying to be positive, trying to make the mentally down players and manager feel the presence of support and unity, and overall trying to lift the spirits and confidence of their club.
Alex,
You do know that you have other choices right?
There are many other blogs dedicated to writing about the shortcomings of Wenger and his players. LOTS OF BLOGS. Untold might not be for you if it upsets you to see the manager defended.
Just sayin’.
In fairness to Klopp, Borussia’s current problems haven’t happened over night but over a sustained period. Just look at the players they’ve lost in recent seasons to their rivals, some of them spending more time on the subs bench as a result. They seem to be facing the same problems that Afc did for a few years through little fault of their own. Their fans seem to understand the current football climate, whereas in the Uk we seem to criticise in an overblown & disproportionate way.
No one says Wenger gets everything correct because he doesn’t, no manager does, but he’s still brilliant at his job & deserves more credit then he gets. The insults that are aimed at him don’t change that. Shouting even louder or giving them more print/broadcasting time than deserved doesn’t make the insults truer either. Media outlets don’t have the best interest of clubs at heart. When our manager does eventually go, thats when people will realise just how much they miss his ability.
Excellent post Walter. May I add that, and I’m not directing this at you Walter as I know you’re aware of this already, our so-called worst start to the PL in so x years really is NOT a worst start; we should be in the top two had we got the penalties and other decisions which we were not given. And if the refs had done their job not let the Ozils, Debuchys,Girouds, etc get hacked without any form of protection.
Anyway, we all know the thick planks who call themselves fans, but who we know as something else, will never acknowledge this. It leads me to believe that these people are failures in their own lives (know I’m not the first to say this 🙂 ). Losers.
@Bootome
I always ignore you as you are a plastic fan.
Plastic is always plastic.
You are not connected in any way form or shape with the club.
Definitely you are a spud in disguise and you get lost from gooners sphere.
A very good post.As I have said before,I still believe the banner scumbags were put up by the media.I find it hard to believe that anyone would go to that extreme to present a banner that was so well presented.Furthermore,usually the media would have tracked those idiots and interviewed them and taken delight at doing it.Unusual.
Alex,
Yes, of course!
And unlike you, I don’t have a season ticket or go to the away games or …….
All I do is sit in my “armchair” to support the team and manager that you show true love to by slagging off at every opportunity.
@Bootome
I don’t need to be told by a plastic fan like you to love or hate Mr. WENGER.
Human are different from plastic.
I cannot hide my happiness and so my anger being human and a fan.
Unreserved apology if and is big if I insult in any shape or form Mr Wenger. But I m sure I did not simply because I have huge respect to the man.
And I hope there is no any racist remark I have done as I noticed already you sniff on this things.
Rant over
@Mick; I know what the definition of “competing” is. Did that for 20 yrs playing semi-pro. We won every thing there was to win in my town. And even when we went through a bad patch, we were still there abouts. We had our issues with refs, were band for raising it, but never blamed them for our defeats. What is your definition of competing?
Superb post. Those in Dortmund really are proper fans. As for wenger there is a new narrative in town. They can’t use the years without a trophy any more. Bad start, yes but improving as our defence. Wenger now spends money, he buys top players so they can’t use that. No, the new media and aaa narrative which is catching on like wild fire on their blogs, we are being told we should now be bored with wenger. Desperate times for desperate people with desperate measures, still we have been told. Let’s spend some time being bored with wenger!
Wish I could exchange the Dortmund fans with ours. Now that is what we call loyalty which is what being a supporter is all about. German fans are good examples. No wonder, their teams generally are improving (female and male).
…and when you fall, I will be with you…
…you managed us in good times, we will SUPPORT you through the bad times…
These words are the definition of a REAL football fan.
It is a pity to see Dortmund doing so badly in their league. They play good football, have a decent manager and have brilliant supportive fans (including an old friend of mine who desperately wanted us to beat Bayern Munich last season).
I really hope they come out of their bad patch soon. They have definitely suffered by losing some of their best young players to Bayern Munich, the money team that sucks up German football talent.
There is no reasonable basis for the negativity displayed towards Arsenal and Arsene Wenger by some of our fans. It is sad that there are so many people unable to use the brains they were born with. It is also sad that there are so many people willing to swallow whatever rubbish they are fed by the media.
Alex,
Please try to be coherent. I know it’s hard for you but come on man, try.
Dortmund will be fine this is a just a bit of a blip admittedly a bad blip!
Alex. Those of you that think you know best and base your judgement of wenger on what ‘you would have done’ bear in mind you are an amateur. You do not have 1/1000th of the knowledge Wenger has.
You have every right to criticise him but unfortunately you don’t offer any balance. Since we moved into the Emirates, CFC have had a nett spend of around £300m more than us, Man City £450m more,
if you don’t think this is a mitigation factor and are one of those that ignore it, here’s a challenge. I’ll give you £50, while I’ll keep £350. Now let’s both pop off to Sainsburys and see who buys the best food. When your family compare our two trolleys and turn on you because I have better food then me, realism may strike. Doesn’t matter how much more you know about food than me, or your tactical navigation of the Isles, I’ll be the winner.
*better food than you.
Walter – magnificent.
proudkev,
Alex’ grudge (from the little that I can understand of his incoherent ramblings) is with Untold defending Wenger rather than lecturing him on how to do a job in which he is one of the best in the world. I guess he is pissed that unlike other numerous blogs on the Internet, UA isn’t participating in the notorious Monday morning quarterbacking that is now the norm.
I personally think the way we finished last season and started this one (by winning the FA cup and Charity Shield respectively, dispatching the likes of City in the process) coupled with the arrival of players like Sanchez who is at his prime and our run last season where we were top of the league for six months, made whoever pulls the strings at the top of the pgmob go we have to stop this team now. In my view we may not have made anumber explosive start (so has City, and every one else apart from Chelsea who have been given several dubious decisions) but we definitely don’t deserve to be where we are had the playing field been level. We’ve seen that bad decisionsagainst us always increase everytime Arsenal appear like they’re about to go on a run; 50th game at OT, 2008 season, last season…. and it’s not coincidence. Unfortunately dimwits like Alex will not see any of the robbery going on on the pitch, and instead choose to blame one man for every crisis, real or imagined.
‘made an explosive start*….’ Autocorrect and a sleepy head is a dangerous combination 🙂
Goodnight
@gouresh
My definition is similar to yours. Your description is exactly what Arsenal under Wenger have done, we have won trophies and remained there or thereabouts by staying in the top four. So I don’t quite get you, you describe what competing is, which is what Arsenal have done by the terms of your own description, but then say they are not competing. You appear confused.
compete…. to strive to outdo another for acknowledgment, a prize, supremacy, profit, etc.; engage in a contest; vie: to compete in a race; to compete in business.
Finally, a derserving post about the greatest football club fans in the world. Dortmund fans, you really earned my dearest respect for being what most of my fellow gunners are not. Your war cry and shouts in any stadium are a sight to behold. One of the most iconic scenes in football history, in my opinion. I hope and pray your club will shift in the league standing you deserve.
Like most of the AKBs on this tread , I admire those Dortmund fans who truly are awesome in their support ,even when things aren’t going their way . They are so understanding ,united and vocal – as it should always be.
Here we have idiots coming on a pro-Arsene website and talking nonsense and calling the AKBs names . How stupid do you have to be to not understand ?
If they were to come on and argue their views and points properly , we’d all engage them in a constructive debate .Instead they make themselves look like fools with their incoherent spewings.
Again , lost in translation…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAeY9uJHndc
Just want to add a couple of things to this.
I was a regular to Highbury all through the 70’s up until the mid 80’s when I moved from London and made getting to game hard.
We have never gone through a rough patch with Wenger and I don’t think a lot of these JCL’s and AAA’s see this. They have no sense of context or history. They joined when we were winning and they think they deserve that level constantly.
Man Utd got that level through the help of the FA and its officials and Chelsea though the deep pockets and obscene spending of RA. Now Man City are hoping to use their financial clout to help them dominate.
Take away the two money teams and in the last near two decades our team would have been 1st, 2nd or 3rd constantly. Apart from the joke leagues of Scotland and Germany, tell me that is not near domination. Yes we have not won the league but in my eyes, neither have Chelsea or Man City, they have bought their titles at a cost where the ruling body has had to change the rules. So, new fans and AAA’s, top 4 for 17 years, Cl for 17 years, players like Henry, Bergkamp, Ozil. Sanchez, Vieira, Overmars, and some of most beautiful football played on this shore and you are still not happy? You are not true football fans, you are glory-hunters who get off on the reflected glory of your team winning when at work or down the pub. You are braggarts and shallow people and I for one would like you away from my team. The team I have followed for 40+ years come rain or shine.
On and
http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/this-picture-will-make-arsenal-fans-think-twice-about-wenger/?
@Will, i like that word braggarts are in plenty and waiting to jump on any draw or to spit their venom on us. If you look at a dick like alex you just wonder what people really want,its as if they dont see what is going on,no penalties,rough play and fouls committed not attend too it is with such deluded minds that even the men in black do their own shit without fear as they know that a lot of shittty heads are against us.One more thing which gives me a headache Mourinhoass is a portuguese,louis van gaal is a dutch,tottenham coach is an argentinian,sunderland coach gus poyet is uruguayan but you will never see any whorelist refering to them by their country as they do to the Prof that the Frenchman!!! @Al@Bootoomee@Brickfields Gunners,why is that???
@ KampalaGun -December 5, 2014 at 7:40 am – Why ? I’ll like to think that things started to become rotten between the English and the French since 1066 onwards .
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/bayeux.htm
Thanks Walter for this Article.
I was moved to tears at the interpretation of the Dortmund fan banners. Surely, J Klopp and his players would be lifted by it and then respond positively.
Now to the desperate banner boys of Arsenal. Usmanov, a despirate money bag wants AFC as his toy (remember he offered to bankroll the construction of the Ems) like RA of chel$ky. The banner boys have reasons for bringing their stupid banner and not celebrating an Arsenal goal- they were simply mercenaries. Wrong action, wrong timing.
I still want to say whoever comes on UA to slag off our Manager and players is INSANE. Not because they dont have the right to do it but because they come to the wrong place to display their madness when there are ‘millions’ of AW hate platforms on the net.
So Usmanov is desperate to take over Arsenal, the media is desperate to get even with AW after the 1st Oct., 1996 show of wits and spoilt fans/supporters are desperate to have AW/AFC compensate for the failures in their private lives. What a classless bunch!
” Your mind is a powerful thing.
When you fill it with positive thoughts,
your life will start to change .”
Anon.
” When you look for the good in others ,
you discover the best in yourself.”
Martin Walsh.
@Brickfields Gunners thanks, i now get it.
A riddle –
My name is _________.
I’m a five letter word.
I an normally below you.
If you remove my first letter you’ll find me above you .
If you remove my first and second letters , you can’t see me.
I agree with the fact that Wenger made some mistakes over the seasons but that does not mean that I will not support my team.
The media fuel hatred has sipped into the subconscious mind of these fans. The question I normally ask these disgruntled fans is that how can Arsenal compete with years of spending money by ManU, Chelsea & ManC?
Arsenal has spent aleast £42m a season on a top player for two seasons compared to about £200m spent by these clubs in the season especially ManC & Chelsea. Until 2005/06, I couldn’t remember when Chelsea beat us except the CL quarter-final before the oil money came in. Same with ManC. We had equal fight chance with ManU those days.
I sometimes can’t understand how the same media praise Harry Redknapp with limited success. Am sure that Harry would have been the best manager in the whole world if he is the one at Arsenal for 18 years and has achieved what Wenger has. Morouniho notice that the media dislike Wenger & he choose to play on that by saying all the nonsenses, which including the ” specialist in failure”. This is just like telling your neighbour that you are richer than that he is a failure because you are fortunate to be rich. Cruel world, cruel media & cruel AAA.
@Will your words made me cry!
A riddle –
My name is _________.
I’m a five letter word.
I an normally below you.
If you remove my first letter you’ll find me above you .
If you remove my first and second letters , you can’t see me.
Chair.
Ooh
This is something for those of you who really know football. What happens to the ball when it is kicked? Sorry you were wrong because the ball I was talking about was filled with water & then frozen. Your leg is probably injured and the ball still looks the same.
Now lets get to Wenger. Wenger has to run a football club that has a whole host of complications. He does so with some of the best advisers available. His choice of players are made after careful consideration and all his true supporters (Arsenal’s true supporters) accept his decisions because we know that he is best placed to make them.
Those of you who know better than him are still feeling the pain of kicking the ball full of frozen water. You need a bucket of ice cold water and a sponge.
Arsene replaced The Ox against Southampton as he was under-preforming, certainly nowhere near his recent standards which were excellent.
This happens with young players, their performance improvement does not rise in straight lies upwards.
So, well done Arsene for a sub that may well have improved the chance of 3 points.
Credit where it is due, let the manager do his job and shut the f….up
On behalf of Lord Wenger – To those of you who thanked me – My pleasure. Now take your banner and go join PGMO.
Proudkev
“You do not have 1/1000th of the knowledge Wenger has”.
I don’t know what make you say that. Certainly I didn’t say that nor do I pretend to be.
The reality at Dortmund is different from TODAY Arsenal.From that little I read about them I guess they are constantly looking their stars to the big clubs.If that is the case they have to stand by their manager as we did during previous seasons.
Give me the old Wenger that comes Sanogo and I will take it any day .
But when start splashing 70 mil. Plus that is something else. I don’t think the slogan or the title bode well wigh today Arsenal.
I read what Alex has to say and think…what the hell has he done with his other brain cell !!!
Great article Walter; it really is a joy coming here.
@bob mac – couldn’t agree with you more.
jambug,
Ah, so it’s not just me that think he makes little sense? This is the problem that we are talking about: we have morons who can barely post coherent comments on Internet blogs trying to tell one of the games greatest managers how to do his job.
The whole charade is just insane.
Jamburg
My other brain cell is looking at the picture of bbc and Di Maria is so ugly when is laughing that he completely ruined my lunch appetite.
Cheeeeeeers and be happy.
Alex
I’m glad to hear you’ve at least put one of them to such good use.
Now do yourself, and us, a favour and find something other than posting here for the other one to do.
Can I suggest using it to buy a season ticket at Stamford bridge.
I’m sure you and your 2 brain cells will be much happier there.
Jamburg
Chelsky ?????
Maybe you fancy them.
Alex
2 brain cells and neither working properly.
What are the odds? Poor lad.
As seen on other blogs, especially ‘that one’, many of the most ‘angry’ and ‘abusive’ commenters are pretend Gooners. Quite a few slip up and expose themselves as Chelsea or Spurs fans. Great phone in the other night, the caller was this really angry Gooner using all the cliches to describe Wenger, including the ‘specialist’ jibe and a personal comment about his nose. He then went on to say what a genius Mourinho was. The presenter didnt question him at all, just used him as a typical unhappy Gooner, when he clearly was on a wind up.
This morning, Alan Brazil interview Begovic. He asked if Stoke would adopt the usual tactics against Arsenal and be aggressive and get in their faces. He added that Wenger and Arsenal don’t like it when teams get right in their faces! Incredible really that they all encourage this way to play. Begovic said they know they have to be aggressive and physical to stop Arsenal playing. He said that early tackles would motivate their crowd. Brazil said he wished them luck. So we know what to expect and this further proves that people are being brainwashed into thinking it is okay to go kick Arsenal. Because that is what this aggressive, in your face football means. And Shawcross the thug is mouthing off again, that club has zero class.
Alex: “Give me the old Wenger that comes Sanogo and I will take it any day. But when start splashing 70 mil. Plus that is something else. I don’t think the slogan or the title bode well wigh today Arsenal.”
Sound like you forgot to put your teeth in this morning. What the hell was that nonsense supposed to mean?
The fact that you question Wenger and then do the same to me, realy makes me feel proud.
Another great article, haven’t even had a chance to read the comments as wanted to express my gratitude to this site as quickly as possible. I think your point on the fact that we Arsenal have only ever had relative bad times is key to why we as fans are spoilt, we are all spoilt but most of us choose to acknowledge that fact and stick by our manager and team, but alas that can’t be said for all…
@proudkev
Re Alan Brazil, this morning he also spoke to Andy Gray and they chuckled together over the prospect of Stoke giving some of their treatment to Arsenal this weekend. Shame on them both for as good as condoning a repeat of the Shawcross tackle on Ramsey.
Last 6 years….Borussia dortmund-2 championships
1 cup winner
1 super cup winner
champions league runner up
Arsenal 1 Fa cup.
Do you not think that is the reason why dortmunds fans are still behind the manager.One poor season as opposed to 10 poor seasons from arsenal are the reason the fans are so forgiving.And their squads cost a fraction of ours.Klopp is a young dynamic manager who is in touch with tactical side of the game .Im not so sure you can say the same with ours.
Anthony Taylor vs Stoke!
And in a nutshell is the problem.
proudkev
December 5, 2014 at 12:38 pm
As seen on other blogs, especially ‘that one’, many of the most ‘angry’ and ‘abusive’ commenters are pretend Gooners. Quite a few slip up and expose themselves as Chelsea or Spurs fans. Great phone in the other night, the caller was this really angry Gooner using all the cliches to describe Wenger, including the ‘specialist’ jibe and a personal comment about his nose. He then went on to say what a genius Mourinho was. The presenter didnt question him at all, just used him as a typical unhappy Gooner, when he clearly was on a wind up.
This morning, Alan Brazil interview Begovic. He asked if Stoke would adopt the usual tactics against Arsenal and be aggressive and get in their faces. He added that Wenger and Arsenal don’t like it when teams get right in their faces! Incredible really that they all encourage this way to play. Begovic said they know they have to be aggressive and physical to stop Arsenal playing. He said that early tackles would motivate their crowd. Brazil said he wished them luck. So we know what to expect and this further proves that people are being brainwashed into thinking it is okay to go kick Arsenal. Because that is what this aggressive, in your face football means. And Shawcross the thug is mouthing off again, that club has zero class.
Mick, didnt hear the bit with Andy Grey. This is the problem though, its now totally acceptable to play dirty and kick Arsenal. You would expect a bit more sensitivty due to the fact that animal Shawcross nearly ended Ramseys career. It is the old ex players and the other dinosaurs that wont let our Country move on. We are backwards.
Mandy, oh no Anthony Taylor. Lets hope he does what he doesnt usually do and has a good game. No doubt Riley has called him and asked him to be lenient on Stokes tackles.
@Nick Lee
One FA cup correct, but you forgot to mention one new stadium and maintaining our top four finishes whist servicing the debt and remaining financially stable and at the same time competing against the bottomless money pits of Chelsea and Man City, so not quite as poor as you maintain. Quite an achievement I would say, or do you disagree.
And this is what I mean by the Media running our game.
Taylor will of read and heard exactly what you guys have read and will now know exactly how he is expected to referee the game at the weekend, if he didn’t already.
He has been left in no doubt that allowing Arsenal players to be kicked to kingdom come is exactly what is expected of him and woe betide if he stands in the way of Arsenal getting what’s coming.
It’s not overt bribery or corruption but something more insidious and frankly more worrying.
What with the obvious pro active selection of Referees to suit and the pro active encouragement of one team to physically abuse another, all in all a very black day for English football.
Sad, very sad.
No doubt at all Proudkev, and I think we all know who they will target. You know, the guy who the Torygraph said we would be in 14th place if we did not have him. I didnt read the article, but I would imagine they failed to mention where City would be without Aguero, or where Chelsea would be without RA…or Atkinson for that matter.
seems a real media/AAA/PGMOL onslaught at the moment, even more than usual.
Wonder which ref they will give us for the Liverpool game?
Mandy, the media are just reacting to the AAAA. As soon as the crap fans we have turn on the club, the media play to them, even though they represent a tiny minoroty. This nonsense about us being in relegation without Sanchez is pretty childish. It isnt aimed at the more intelligent fan, it is aimed at the moaners. You only have to look at that blog to see how it works. ‘That’ blog has been caught numerous times lying and altering Wengers actual words, that is how it works. Despite Arsenal being the good guys financially and a club that plays football the way it should be – we get picked on. The AAAA and those tos*8rs with the flag are making it worse for us all. I loathe the AAAA and the media.
Excellent article, Walter.
Alan Brazil has a long held hatred of Arsenal and Arsene Wenger and uses his radio show to do all he can to undermine the Club and adversely influance the fanbase with his vitriol.
I was very young when he played for Tottenham in 1983 and have no real recollection of that period. Can anyone remember if he received a lot of abuse from Arsenal fans at that time, which may help explain his behaviour nowadays?
Agree with everything you say there Kev
Many footballers don’t have the intelligence to comment on the Game. Sadly many of these idiots are employed by the media.
First of all reference stoke,you have to win the battle before you can win the game.This is the saying that has been in football for years .The great side we had in the nineties and all the way till 2004 could play good football but could also mix it and win the battle as well.We had one of the hardest teams and sometimes crossed the line..Teams arent going to stand there and watch us play fancy tippy tappy football without putting a foot in .If you think that should be the case then you are nieve and don’t know too much about the game.
And Mick i understand we have had to pay for the stadium,but because the likes of chelsea and city have billionaires who are prepared to put their money into the club to buy players and subsadise ticket prices doesn’t make it wrong.We have 2 billionaires who own our club and one of them wants to take money out.That makes him worse than abramovic and the sheik.Kronke would rather us pay some of the highest ticket prices in world football than use some of it to help the club.Oh and as for 4th place every year NO ITS NOT A TROPHY!!It means we are consistently also rans.
Nick.
Yes you are right you have to earn the right to play. Agree. The issue is whether or not our players are protected the way they should be.
To your second point. Arsenal Football Club decided to be self sustaining. They did this with a view to building the club for the future and not for the immediate. Yes we have two millionaires but they dont take dividends and the club is run as any business should be. That is our model. It has served us well and has helped the club to reamin self reliant, even during the problems we had during the property crash. Football fans dont want to listen to financial facts but that does not mean they can ignore them. Also, if you are going to blame the Milionaires, then leave Wenger out of it.
About Wenger. Unlike most managers, he understood the plan to grow the club and build a bigger stadium, he was aware of this in the early 2,000s. He accepted that he had to sell his best players, which cannot have been much fun. Finding a player and making him great, only to lose that player to a club financially doped, must hurt. Since the stadium move and after the Arab bought Man City, Mr. Wemger – the Manager you blame for all our sins, was given a net spend of between £300 – £450 million LESS than Chelsea and Man City. That means he had considerably less money to spend on players than either of those clubs. In fact, he had less than Liverpool and Spurs, but let us not complicate matters.
So when those who abuse and disrespect Wenger start accussing him of being a rubbish Manager (because he couldnt win aTitle, despite being financially handicapped), I think they are not only being unfair but being bloody ridiculous. This Manager has helped shape our club. If we did not have stability during the period when we were having to ‘trade’ our players by making a profit, we would not have been finishing 3rd or 4th. You can forget all those stupid jokes about 4th place trophies because we would not have been anywhere close.
I find it amazing that we have people who work in offices, on building sites and worst of all students that genuinely belive they know more than Wenger. More about players, fitness, tactics, contracts – I could go on. Now it appears they know more about what substitutions to make, when they probably couldnt even make their own beds.
We have a lot to thank Wenger for. We have nothing to disrespect him for. He stood loyal while he was asked he was asked to forfeit success for the future development of the club. We are now a club that has grown its revenues immesurably and which will soon be a football super power. None of this was in spite of Wenger, it was because of him. There are at least £300 Million reasons why he wasnt able to win the Title but none of those was because he doesnt know what he is doing.
Nick lee.
Oh dear. The 4th place trophy, as you call it (I don’t, I call it Champions League Qualification) does not make us also rans. To be an elite club you have to be in the Champions League, not the Europa league – or winning the Carling Cup! To attract the best players, you need to be a Champions League team. To grow the club and buy the best players we need the income generated by the Champions League.
We are trying to reach the stage where we can compete with Chelsea, City and Man Utd after being financially snookered, so the money from the CL is essential. The fact you cannot undertsand that and instead choose to mock finishing 3rd or 4th shows ignorance. Of course its been hard since moving into the stadium, made even harder by the Arabs buying City and investing close on a billion quid (while getting finde for cheating)!
In case you missed it, Chelsea have been whinging about FFP. Mourinho is laiming its not fair as it benefits teams like Arsenal. Man City feel the same way, they have just had restrictions on signings and received a fine. So all this means the financial climate is changing. You dont need millionaire owners, as you beleive, you need a football club that generates huge levels of income through good business practice.
Chelsea and Man City had a temporary advantage that is eroding. It takes time to cath up on BILLION pound investments but we are getting there.It seems that we have a lot of fans who havnt got a clue about what they claim to be experts on. It is not Wengers fault that the media and some fans havn’t got a clue what they are talking about. Great Manager than has helped our club achieve a minor miracle over the last 9 years.
proudkev
Very well said. Again I, and a few others on here, have posted very similar, in depth analysis of Arsenal, wenger, the oil money and the last 10 years. Alas it will with Nick, as it does with all of them, fall on deaf ears.
But a well thought through, intelligent response to another ingrate who hasn’t got a clue.
Hello Mick: If you see our teams of pre 05 and compare it with todays or the teams of the past 8 yrs, you will see what I mean.
Jambug.
You might try and insult me by calling me an ingrate but im not blind.I think like many that what wenger has done has been nothing short of miraculous over the years,But rather than be blinkered and say the reason he hasnt won the league or champions league is just down to money is absurd.Times have moved on,coaching has changed and our once great manager hasn’t moved on with the times.I grant you that hes kept us competative over the years but to take arsenal to the next level takes more than that .To be at the very top like mourinho and gaurdiola you have to be tactically astute in all parts of the game ,some of which wenger doesnt seem to want to do.That is why in previous seasons we have taken a hammering and cannot beat the top teams in the league.We dont know how to defend ,we dont seem to be able to alter tactics for different games.We make substitutes at pre determined times.We very rarely change our shape to suit the players.These are all the traits of good managers.Wenger is on 8 million a year and ha answers to nobody ,that means hes not under pressure to get results.Why is he the only manager on the planet who is exempt from this???
Nick Lee – Wenger is exempt because he is the only manager who has built a club & its infrastructure and its team and attracted its fanbase. If you don’t understand the incredible then learn. Do not try to teach more intelligent beings how to live. Learn and build your own empire. When you get to the top ten in fantasy football, come back and maybe somebody will have time for you. Pointing at Mourinho is a little naive. Mourinho has built nothing. He squirms in others money and rants like a whipped dog. The media love his kind because they can sell papers. Come back at the end of the season and report on his fantastic creation. I bet you were going on about Rodgers last season.
Tell me when Chelsea win without PGMO help & then I will say that Chelsea can play football.
Menace i thought football was all about winning football matches and trophy’s silly me .I didn’t know it was a football managers job to build stadiums and make money for their greedy owners and board.I want my football manager to spend all his time and efforts making the team the best that they can be and challenge for honours.Arsenal FOOTBALL CLUB and its fans were here before wenger and will be here when he leaves.Some of us though arent scared sh1tless when he leaves or is moved on because believe it or not there are other FOOTBALL MANAGERS out there who can manage FOOTBALL TEAMS,some are better than him.You are in the minority with your way of thinking not me.And as for thinking you are more intelligent than me because of your beliefs make you stupid