Manuel Pellegrini has said that for his game against Chelsea today he will be using some of the youngsters in his squad, as he is running out of players.
How could that be?
Now of course Arsenal used some youngsters yesterday, most notably with Iwobi getting a run out along with Chambers. But the Man City scenario is different. They were not talking about trying out one of their superstars of the future, but of using younger players with limited experience… because they had to.
For us, Iowbi, like Jeff Reine Adelaide and Gedeon Zelalem could well be a significant part of the Arsenal scenario in the near future, but they are each at different moments in their trajectory. Zelalem is battling it out in the aggressive “be a man” world of the Scottish Championship playing for Rangers – his loan extended for the whole season. Jeff has done his bench sitting time, and is playing for France under 18s and for various Arsenal youth teams in different competitions.
But Man City are not thinking along these lines. As the Man City manager said,
“We always like to put out a strong team in all competitions and my priority is always the next game. But maybe this time will be an exception. There are some moments when you have to make an intelligent decision about what is best for the team. Getting the team selection right for this match has given me a big problem. It would not have been quite so difficult had we been able to play on the Saturday. We told the fans one week ago that we are going to play with a young team. That’s all we can do, I hope they understand. If they choose not to pay for the ticket because it is not a real game any longer I understand that too.”
Obviously Man City want to get into the last eight of the Champs League for the first time ever, so they are emphasising that. But even so to be short of players seems a bit odd for a club with this much money.
So what sort of a squad have Man City ended up with? They play with the same regulations as everyone else of course, which means a “25” squad with a range of home grown players, and as many under 21s as they want. Here’s the main squad.
| Squad member | Position | Played | Goals | Status |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1. Joe Hart | Goalkeeper | 255 | 0 | HG |
| 3. Bacary Sagna | Defender | 31 | 0 | |
| 4. Vincent Kompany | Defender | 216 | 13 | |
| 5. Pablo Zabaleta | Defender | 202 | 8 | |
| 6. Fernando | Midfielder | 40 | 2 | |
| 8. Samir Nasri | Midfielder | 123 | 17 | |
| 10. Sergio Agüero | Forward | 139 | 92 | |
| 11. Aleksandar Kolarov | Defender | 129 | 9 | |
| 13. Willy Caballero | Goalkeeper | 4 | 0 | |
| 14. Wilfried Bony | Forward | 27 | 6 | |
| 15. Jesús Navas | Midfielder | 87 | 4 | |
| 17. Kevin De Bruyne | Midfielder | 19 | 5 | |
| 18. Fabian Delph | Midfielder | 12 | 2 | HG |
| 20. Eliaquim Mangala | Defender | 39 | 0 | |
| 21. David Silva | Midfielder | 180 | 35 | |
| 22. Gaël Clichy | Defender | 105 | 1 | HG |
| 25. Fernandinho | Midfielder | 89 | 10 | |
| 26. Martín Demichelis | Defender | 75 | 3 | |
| 29. Richard Wright | Goalkeeper | 0 | 0 | HG |
| 30. Nicolás Otamendi | Defender | 20 | 1 | |
| 42. Yaya Touré | Midfielder | 187 | 56 | |
| 75. Aleix García | Midfielder | 0 | 0 |
That is interesting – just 22 players. But on the other hand most clubs with the option of having 25 players have fewer than 25. Arsenal have just 23 players listed, but eight of them are home grown which means we have no problem signing anyone of any nationality. But as we see above in relation to Man C in their desperation for world dominance they have only procured three HGs.
Man City also have Sterling, Celina and Iheanacho from their under 21 group who have played in the first team – although I don’t think Celina has made a major impact as yet – but it is early days.
So it looks as if any shortage of players for Man City is down to the fact that they get a lot of injuries and they have not fully prepared themselves in terms of building a big squad with lots of HGs in it.
It also raises the question about just how good the under 21s are. Arsenal’s list of active under 21s is Chambers, Bellerin, Iwobi. With Jeff and Zelalem behind. Quite powerful and with a significant potential.
Which in turn raises the question, just how good is Iwobi?
That young lad-about-town Jonathan Liew of whom I have spoken before, has been seen lurking around the Emirates of late and has even written a piece on Iwobi – having previously written a very sarcastic item about Arsenal supporters and Jeff RA.
Surprisingly, on Iwobi JL asks the question about how good he is and answers, “He may still be better known as Jay-Jay Okocha’s nephew, and he may still be waiting for his first Premier League start, but this was another impressive showing from the rapidly improving 19-year-old playmaker. He put a couple of shots just wide, kept possession well and found space better than anyone else in Arsenal’s front six.
“Not to burden the bloke with expectation, but does anybody else see something of a proto-Mesut Özil in Iwobi? He’s one of those players you never quite notice is there until he’s there. At times he looks almost detached from the game: drifting, strolling, but somehow always in the right place, always in space. He’s got excellent balance, a sure first touch and when he sticks those bony elbows out, he’s nigh-on impossible to dispossess.
“The point when Iwobi is a seriously [sic] challenger for the No10 role is obviously some years off. But probably not as long as you think. One of the less obvious benefits of having Özil about the place is that his mere presence can inspire improvement in younger players. He doesn’t just do: he teaches. Joel Campbell, too, has improved his touch and vision immeasurably in the last six to 12 months.”
Now by chance, by and large I agree with the young Telegraphian and it strikes me that this is one of the differences between Arsenal and Man C and what makes the two clubs so instantly separable. Arsenal under Mr Wenger have always continued their search for brilliant raw talent – and aside from the above we haven’t even touched on Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Chuba Akpom, Martinez, Jon Toral, and Wellington Silva.
When watching the youngsters it is not a case of seeing whether they are good enough or not to play for the first team, but whether they are on the journey that could lead to that.
For all the billions spent on the club, it seems Man City are not yet producing off-spring that can do it. We’ve been doing it for years.
Anniversaries
- 21 February 1933: Daily Mirror reported the “sensation” of Arsenal’s new strip. Although the club had changed its strip regularly in the early days this became a big news story because of Arsenal’s success in the last three years
- 21 February 1964: Defender Laurie Brown was sold to Tottenham – he played against Arsenal the following day – but amazingly was put into the team as Tottenham’s centre forward.
You might also enjoy…
- My early days as an Arsenal first team player by John Radford
- Bob Wilson writes for Untold Arsenal: that most unforgettable of days
- To understand Arsenal’s success, we also need to understand what led up to Arsenal’s success
- Arsenal in the 70s Part 20: July to Dec 1977 – signs of recovery.
Aleix Garcia is under 21, so their “25 Squad” contains 21 players. Source: http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2015-16/feb/020216-2015-2016-premier-league-squads-announced.html
They have the maximum number of overseas players allowed – 17 – but look at the age profiles.
None of their 4 home grown players were home grown at their club, and the list includes a 38 year old goalie who never gets a game (Richard Wright).
But the press will tell you they have a youth academy that is the envy of the footballing world.
Read the same piece this morning Tony.
Quite surprised, as you say, because Liew is normally so sarcastic.
Have seen Iwobi 3 times now and he looks to have good ball control, and a good “head-up” style. Pleased too that Chambers is getting more time, thought he did well against Sunderland in central midfield. Joel Campbell too has prospered and if he can cure that heavy first touch I think he will star for us. Look forward to seeing more of Jeff.
As you say, developing young talent is the Arsenal/AW way, long may it continue
P.S. On yesterday’s match. Has Dean ever given us a pen?? Have re-watched 2-3 times the incidents involving the hand ball and the trip on Chambers. Both clear penalties!!
On the positive side Kos was very close to getting g sent off
Just read that UEFA have appointed a very dodgy Turkish ref just in case we might poss have any success against barca.they (uefa)have left no stone unturned as they usually do when we meet their darlings.this ref has sent off five English players already.obviously no love for the English.you read it here first.a van person moment awaits…..
Uwot? lol Dirty dawgs!
Ref article;
For all that Man City’s B team looks better than ours….
Compulsory reading for all the halfwits who take in then vomit forth the ridiculous media line about just what an exceptional job Viera has done at Man City in the youth team……
Wish we had Viera at the Emirates
Tipster, your comment really shows you’re a poor judge of players… Really!
They do have a few excellent players in their ‘2nd 11’ but the quality level after that is like dropping off a cliff face.
Could be argured that whoever brought Sanagoal and Senderous to the cloud is a poor judge.
Great read Tony.
I always believed that with their money, if Man City and Chelsea got things right we’d be doomed.
A man that always has loads of money at his disposal hardly manages it well.
It could be argued that potential was spotted but not realised by the players concerned.
Perhaps one tipster you will realise there is more to life then the end of your tongue which you write of here.
But keep it coming here. Please don’t go away your the nearest we have to the ‘Goon Show’ The masters of idiocy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goon_Show
@colario, that’s one way of putting it, potential not realised, I’d put it another way, though.
Btw, talking about potential do you think wenger has reached his full potential at Arsenal?
Pellegrini’s squad selection for the Chelsea game is the closest any manager of a big club has ever come to telling the FA and the TV companies to go and fuck themselves.
It’s also a bad news for Arsenal, since we have shown that beating Chelsea, who will now no doubt throw all resources at this competition, is beyond our capabilities.
Three- peating the FA cup has now become a much taller order.
Tipster hasn’t any artic hit you on the M25 yet? You are dimmer than I thought.
Tipster
I am not sure what your point is, Senderos was years ago and Sanogo is on loan. Please clarify your point.
Tipster the trolling twit has nothing really to offer – apart from getting himself off at the thoughts of being a nuisance.
Sooner or later he will start getting his jollies somewhere else, although when that happens if the aaaa are true to character (as much as the dumbass twits can’t be true to anything), they will no doubt appoint another twit to try and stir emotions on UA.
Guys I think tipster is pleasuring himself at the moment from all the abuse don’t feed th troll!
@Menace, nope, still dodging your bicycle with the stabilisers , same question to you, has wenger reached his full potential.
Point is, Mark, we have bought some dross, but that gets swept under the carpet, and still have some players not up to it, yet little or no criticism is levelled at where it should be, no accountably leads to a general malaise, almost good enough every year gets you to the same place, usually 4th.
Do not feed the trolls.
Home to Watford…winnable.
But first, of course we have to beat Hull. My advice for Wenger in that game is to try and win before that replay goes to penalties. After all , most Arsenal players have about as much experience of taking penalties in a competitive situation as I have at ski jumping.
Oh shhhhhh Hubble has spotted Fergie in space (the biggest Black Hole!!)
Tipster tell me what you know about Arsene Wenger.
Only when I know what you know about Arsene Wenger will I know where to being the answer to you question.
*to begin the answer to your question’.
Apologies for typo.
Sounds like you little scamps don’t want to answer the question, is that because you know deep down. Well let me give my answer, simple, no he hasn’t reached his full potential, thing is, he never will, not not. Life is all about timing, his time has gone.
Tipster
What does the word potential mean in your vocabulary?
I think Wenger is the most sucessfull person to manage Arsenal Football club.
Tom, our record against Chelsea has to change some time, and should we meet them, maybe this will be the time. Agree with you on Pellegrini, he said as much as he could to that effect after the game.
Going back to the article , and Iwobi , he could well be some player. Apparently Wenger has told Roy Hodgson all about him….but think he has elected to play for Nigeria?
We are now seeing some very exciting talents coming though from the ranks of our youngsters…..some of the so called English core are going to have a challenge on their hands.
Bad day for the Spuds, and the Spud loving chapter of our fanbase, that was a strong team they put out. So they cannot put that down to some sort of tactical defeat.
Pellegrini has not gotten his apt correctly this evening as his Man City youth side have lost 5-1 to the Chelsea 1st team today in the FA Cup round 4th at Stanford Bridge.
A Turkish referee for Arsenal vs Barcelona shouldn’t be a cause of worry for us and Arsenal if at all Mesut Ozil Turkish background will bear any influence on the center referee to not whistle any anti Arsenal game whistling in that Ucl encounter at the Ems on Tuesday night, I will suppose.
The center ref’ should be as neutral as he can in the game and call a spade a spade kind of referring by not denying Arsenal any penalty like Mike Dean had denied us 2 penalty calls in our home FA Cup match against Hull City yesterday to force Arsenal to replay the tie at KC Stadium on God knows when.
@rosicky, to me it means” unrealised ability, could have acheived more”
You may think he is the most successful manager, fine, but for me he has had great opportunities to win the champs league, but fell short, that’s the way it is, most of us never reach our fully potential,. But your missing the bigger picture, The Arsenal, have we reached our full potential as a club, I say no, winning the Champoins League is the holy grail, won’t be done with wenger in charge,.
‘We’ve been doing it for years’ …… a myth peddled by AKB disciples for many years. Truth is the last genuine original Arsenal graduate to cement a long term 1st team position apart from injuries disrupted Wilshere is Ashley Cole. Gibbs since to a certain degree but uncertainty has existed over him so that Monreal has now usurped him. Fabregas & Bellerin were outstanding Barcelona youngsters not groomed originally by Arsenal. If Debuchy had not suffered 2 lengthy injuries it could be said that Bellerin would not be 1st choice RB & probably last season in particular would have been out on loan again. Chambers being mentioned is extraordinary as he cost anywhere up to £17 million after a season of playing regular Premier League Football. Walcott, the Ox & even now Jeff RA were expensive buys. The Academy has been undergoing a huge revamp for the last 2 years. The triumphalist mantra of AW the great youth developer is disengenous claptrap.
Good shout Kip, take cover, lol.
Tipster and Kipmonster
Please dont post your drivel on this site which supports Arsenal. Go to that other one which I used to log on to until I realised that that so many of them are miserable feeble excuses of fans who are negative and at times downright ignorant and nasty. I have met your type of Arsenal fan many times over the years and although fair enough to give constructive criticism theirs never is, even when we are doing well they do nothing but moan. COYG.
Tipster, Yes it could be argued about buying Sanogo and Senderos except neither of them was bought, as any Arsenal fan would know.
It really can’t be argued that you’re anything other than a real poor judge of a player though….
You come out with dumb lines which you then only give half a reason for the conclusion. Obviously you could really be dumb enough to believe that half is enough. But I suspect you’re cleverer than that and realise the full reason would defeat your argument, So the only conclusion is that you’re troll (or really dumb). Goodbye.
Andries Jonker took over from Liam Brady in 2014 to run the youth academy .He has a varied experience working with a number of top managers and coaches . It will take time for his work to bear fruit with the newer crop of players . I don’t anticipate seeing his charges really coming forth for 5 years at least.
Iwobi, Bellerin, Coquelin, Wilshere & Gibbs doesn’t seem too bad a return for the academy, but of the players now out on loan I can’t see a future at Arsenal for any of them other than Zelalem. If they follow the usual path of loanees they’ll never be heard of at the club again and that’s something that needs addressing.
It appears ( from what I’ve been reading elsewhere ) that there are serious conflict issues between the academy manager Andries Jonker and his coaches Frans de Kat & Jan van Loon. They can’t agree on coaching methods.
I don’t know if this is true, but if it is then some heads need knocking together. We can’t go on producing a stream a talented youngsters for the benefit of other clubs.
Andy, oh, so that absolves you knew who of any blame. Fact is they were privileged to play for arsenal, but not worthy , that’s only a couple of examples..
Good judge of a player, well how many of the current squad would get in the invincible team, sanchez and ozil, no one else…that’s progress
Looking back on some posts, it seems that to qualify as an Arsenal developed youngster, said player has to be conceived, born and weened within some registered AFC asset.
Who cares where they come from, or who they played for when they were 12, of Arsene gives them their chance in the first team, Wenger and co deserve a substantial slice of credit for their development.
take it Bellerin would currently be a serious candidate for a place in the team of the season of he had stayed at Barca?
Ok Tipster, you found the (easy) way to add many thumbs down or up and you use it. Great ! That says only one thing : you’re either a kid or a totaly dumb person.
Or a stupid troll.
You obviously hate Wenger AND the players. You’re not a fan. Or you’re the kind of fan that can only support a team whith plenty of trophies and wins. Not a true fan then…
What are you doing on this site ? Please let us, poor deluded fans, alone. Why don’t you try LG ? And go and support Chelsea.
Mandy
It’s a psychological issue , the Chelsea jinx.
What is it , 9 hrs and 30 minutes without a goal against them. Must be some kind of a record.
I agree , it surely has to change sooner rather than later.
I had the tickets booked for the last Chelsea game at the Ems and decided last minute that the Leicester game would probably be a more enjoyable option.
As much as we seem to suffer against the Chelsea, Leicester suffer similarly against us.
A lot of it is mental.
Serge, on the academy, have heard rumours of a bit of disagreement between the British and Dutch coaches. But as far as I know, rumours are all they are.
Get the impression there is a lot going on behind the scenes to improve the academy, and for that matter, training/fitness facilities, the money is now in place to do this. I would imagine the club going for a Chelsea model for the academy, ( Ed on PA posted a bit more detail on this fairly recently)…developing players for the first team, and if they, don’t make it, to loan or sell…..which as Chelsea demonstrate can be lucrative…..just a shame that club don’t use a few more for the first team…….
Tom….Leicester game….good choice.
I am sure some of it is mental, though would be interesting how we do against them with a full team on the pitch.
I wonder if some of the mental issue was Jose..apart from the CS of course….stand to be corrected, but think we have quite a reasonable record with their other managers? Jose appears to use some methods that Wenger and his principles and philosophy find hard to counter, but should we beat Hull and face Chelsea….the earliest would I think be the semi at Wembley, I would certainly give us a chance, though as you say, Chelsea will throw everything at this, we may…or may not be in a position to.
But on the positive side, we recently had or appeared to have mental blocks against us with City and Utd….seem to have improved there…..or are they just a bit crap now? Even Stoke away….thought we were unlucky in that game.
Mandy
The biggest disadvantage when playing Chelsea ,is the fact that Arsenal players don’t play the game within the game.
We don’t dive, surround the referee,commit strategic fouls, while Chelsea are masters at all those things.
A lot of times we are too honest, but sometimes just too naive and it’s costing us in big games.
Chelsea are masters of those things…..as are a few others, if Chelsea are the masters, Spurs and Leicester are the fast learning apprentices. . Some would say if you can’t beat them , join them, and there was a time under Wenger when we did…..but he seems to have moved away from the dark side…..which , though admirable, can make life difficult.
Didn’t we get done by the referee is our Chelsea match before the last one?
We have been done by the referee in several recent games against Chelsea…..Dean last autumn, Atkinson in previous fixtures….
… and Marriner.
Tom
> We don’t dive, surround the referee,commit strategic fouls, while Chelsea are masters at all those things.
Are you maybe not taking into account that the referee is supposed to be nominally as intelligent as the players?
Sure, maybe Chelsea players do try to get calls and other things. But shouldn’t the referee recognize that he is being played? Maybe not immediately, but not too long afterwards? The pressure of the moment has the referee flustered, but when the ball next goes off the field (throw-in or goal kick), the referee realizes he has been played.
Theoretically what should then happen, is that if another incident crops up where a team tries to play the referee, the first player to approach the referee should be carded for Unsportsmanlike Conduct. Immediately. If additional players from that team rush in to protest, they should also be carded.
That isn’t happening. The referee gets played, and seems to be willing to be played. The referee is being complicit in a fraud.
I do shudder at the thought of calling referee baiting & pressurising a game. It is an abuse of The Game. The FA & all associate associations need to be sent a directive explaining the purpose of officials as per The Laws of The Game.
In a professional environment, officials should never have to ‘tell a player off’ without giving him a card. There is absolutely nothing that stops officials from being strict & correct. A lot of bullshit is spouted that a red card will spoil the game but in reality cards are part of the correct way to officiate. Players will soon start behaving correctly to avoid being carded.
In recent years under Wenger, Arsenal have been very controlled in playing to the Laws. This does not stop miss timed tackles or professional fouls which may attract a card. Where the change is noticable is shirt pulling & holding in the penalty box.
The younger players at Arsenal are all given a chance to play at a high level & some are sent on loan to improve match skills. This is an issue where clubs with unlimited funds abuse the market by hoarding players that may never play for the parent club. There should be a financial penalty on these players sales of 50% so that it nips the practice in the bud.
@Tipster February 21, 2016 at 4:38 pm
“For all that Man City’s B team looks better than ours….”
I hope you said that tongue-in-cheek as that really good B team lost 5-1 to Chel$ki earlier today LMAO
Tipster is just a troll who is lonely and sad so let him be. Didn’t that clueless, tactical inept, and under achieved manager assembled ‘The Invincible’ team with many non ‘World Class’ players at the time?
Kids like Tipster and Co. probably only supported Arsenal due to AW achievements, I say they would have supported MU, MC, or Chelsea if not for ‘The Invincible’ and the attractive football that AW bought to Arsenal.
Is AW the greatest manager in the world, No, however he is highly respected and regarded by his peers. Un-educated people like Tipster and Co. sprouting personal insults and disrespecting AW achievements shows there are deep problems with the education system.
I believe he is definitely among the greatest managers in the world.
Gord
All good points.
Not everything is cheating or play acting though.
If Ozil goes down under Morgan’s challenge in the Leicester game, even the inept Atkinson has to call it, because both players are on the floor and Morgan was nowhere near the ball, and there’s no Vardy penalty controversy that followed.
I can’t see a single player on Chelsea making an effort to stay on his feet the way Ozil did.
The fact this foul should’ve been called regardless of Ozil’s reaction is besides the point.
Tony, is your email address functioning presently?
new ref, lucky we got our Nicola Rizzoli jinx earlier, and At least no Viktor Kassai. lost some Ko’ z due to them.
forget the kiddish troll. it will take him some time to understand what Arsenal is and what it has been. Needs a perfect analysis to change him like some here once were
Sometimes they do hit the mother lode !
http://www.toilette-humor.com/funny_medical_cartoons/mosquito_hits_the_mother_lode.shtml
FA Cup 6th round. Everton v Chelsea. Looks to me that Everton are very tough opponents. Worth a punt I think. They have beaten Chavski more recently than us.
Wenger definitely up there with the best I’d say. Kids or trolls like the one frequenting this site lately don’t understand what management is all about. Wenger has been unearthing gems for the last decade fighting against billionaire clubs when his hands were tied at the back. Imagine what he would have done with the stars and budget such as those found at Barcelona, Madrid PSG or Chavski…noone would have been able to stay with him. He could have gone to any of those clubs had he wanted (he still can), but as a man of integrity he stayed to try and do things the proper way with us.
Cheque book managers like mourinho, guardiola are just that, cheque book managers. It doesn’t require a genius to get a team like Barcelona to win things. Even Enrique who has never coached anyone is breaking records with Barcelona. Let Guardiola or mourinho go and coach a side like Watford, then we can really see how special they are. I rate Ranieri better than those two.
city academy looks good, they won u18, and doing good in u21
they played great against chelseas first team, and if not for demichelis antiques might have hold on to a draw
we otoh suck in u18 and doing slightly better in u21, and there was only Iwobi playing in fa cup
we have more young players on loan, so perhaps it’s just different vectors
A few notes.
I have the distinct feeling that Pellegrini, having been prematurely let go by the Man City oiling oligarchy, is now doing his best to develop young players so Pep will not need to invest any money to improve the team. OK. This was half sarcasm and half irony, but Pellegrini could easily be number two in England after Wenger, for being the target of the media and pundits.
The Turkish referees do not scare me at all. This is the team that handled Arsenal at home to Bayern, and they fared well, spotting Mesut’s second.
Mesut is German. Referees are unlikely to help him based on them being Turkish and his family originating somewhere in Turkey. Incidentally, he is most probably Kurdish, as the first name Mesut is predominantly used by Kurds in Turkey and elsewhere.
Back to Pellegrini scarifying the FA Cup, and possibly his best chance of a trophy, I still believe he is a decent man. He has chosen bad employers, from the morally corrupt Real Madrid to the Qatari-funded Malaga outfit, and finally to the wannabe Real Madrid of the Premiership, the dubious Man City manager-carousel Oilers. Thie filthy rich team has now found a manager that espouses their modus operandi of buying high and selling cheap, and are in the company of Real Madrid and Barcelona as the trio that can squander money and be bailed out by a State, Spain for Real Madrid and Barcelona, the Emir for Man City. And as the Emir said:
L’Etat, c’est Moi.
I wished Pellegrini had stayed at Villareal.