by Walter Broeckx
As someone said over here, some people like to look back at the good old days. We all do that at times. But looking back is sometimes dangerous because we see the past that we want to remember and not the past that has happened in reality. If I remember my childhood and the summer holidays it looks like I was living in Spain somewhere because the sun was always shining and it was warm. But in fact when we had 1 week without rain in the summer it was a very rare thing and yet when I remember those days it looks like that. So we have to be careful with looking back.
Some people still blame Wenger for letting Henry, Pires, Bergkamp en Vieira go. Yes they all went away from Arsenal in the space of some 2 seasons. But let us take Bergkamp to start. He was just getting too old for playing in the EPL. Yes he still had his moments of brilliance but those days and moments were getting rare. I want to be the last one to give the impression that I talk down Bergkamp as I think he was one of the most important players during his career at Arsenal and maybe a bit underestimated by some people. But it was clear for everyone and certainly for him that he had to stop playing football at that age.
Henry left us because he wanted to win the Champions League and he thought it would be impossible at Arsenal. Maybe if he had scored our second goal in the final we would have won the Champions League in 2006. But he missed and Arsenal missed out . Since then 3 seasons and only one was a good one. The other 2 seasons have been rather poor for a player of his standard. If we would have won the CL and if he would have stayed and produce the same seasons at Arsenal maybe those same people would have said that Wenger should have sold him as he was no good anymore. I think Wenger let him go because he was having troubles with his health and that he wanted to reward him for his best years at Arsenal.
Pires also had one good season left at Villareal but the other seasons he was sitting on the bench a lot. He also grew older and it showed in his performances. Did we really had to hang on to him? He got a lot of injuries also in his last few years so did we had to keep him? And when did we had to let him go? It’s easy to say we should have kept them but this was not realistic and certainly with Bergkamp and Pires.
Vieira is the one player that maybe could have made a difference in my opinion. At first sight he seemed to have won a lot of titles in Italy. But there is one big but. When I look at Italy and the Italian league I don’t know how you win titles. Do you win it on the field? Do you win it with making phone calls? Who knows what else is done over there. One of his titles in Juventus was taken away by the Italian FA as the title was won by doing all kind of things that involved referee match fixing things. And then he went on to Inter who had a run of titles but their name also has been mentioned recently in court because they also seemed to have ordered refs for some games just like Juventus had done. So excuse me but winning the league in Italy is something that doesn’t mean a lot to me. But he has it on his list of honour that is something you cannot take away from him. But if we look at the Vieira from these days it is clear to see that he is at the last stage of his career. The stage where you have to choose between ending your career with grace or keep hanging on and get the most (moneywise) out of it. But I really wonder if Vieira would be better on the field than Song for the moment. I would chose the Song from now always ahead the Vieira from now.
Some people call Wenger arrogant and accuse him of megalomania. I cannot come up with an answer if Wenger is arrogant. To know this you have to know him in person. But if Wenger is suffering from megalomania this is a thing that we can try to find out. If in my country they call a football manager as someone who is suffering from this they mean people who spent millions without thinking of the future. Like in the French expression: après nous la déluge. Which means something like : cleaning up the mess is for the others. This is working like Redknapp did at Portsmouth. That was megalomania. He bought as if he was Real Madrid. Gave players big contracts and gave them high wages and when he saw that the ship started to sink he went on, leaving the broken pieces for the ones that came behind him.
I really cannot say that Wenger is doing such a thing. He is doing the opposite. He is making sure that whenever he leaves Arsenal the club will be in fine shape. He guided us to the Emirates, he gave us the best youth academy in the EPL, he was building for the future. And I think he was the biggest victim of all this. He knew it would be difficult to win prices like he was used to. But he always kept the interest of the club on the long run as his priority. He could have left on several occasions and go to Real Madrid where he would have had all the money available for him to win things. He was linked with every top club in Europe in the last years, linked with the French national team but he decided to stay to help Arsenal survive the most difficult period in their existence if we forget the events of 100 years ago when we almost lost the club for ever. And in all those years when we had to be very careful with every pound we had he kept us in the Champions League. He gave the fans a football style that is admired in the whole world. And by the whole world I mean that part of the world outside the UK. The part of the world where people also take a look at the way you play and not only at the prices you have won. The part of the world where people can see beyond just success for the sake of it. And yes sometimes you can lose a game with the way we play. Those things can happen. At Everton we countered them for a few goals and won the game and we got it the other way round against United. That’s football you know.
Just like the manager who will stick to his players. Have you ever heard a manager openly saying that his player is dross or rubbish? The manager who would do such a thing is a bad manager. Because a manager his job is to build up his players and not to break them down.
Some people keep talking as if they know Cesc in person and have heard the conversations between Cesc and Wenger. I don’t know these conversations so I cannot comment on that. Maybe it would be a nice thing if the rest of us do the same. Because saying that Cesc wants to leave now because the media tell us this story doesn’t make you look like a clever person. It only gives the impression that you are a parrot.
Has Arsène lost the plot big time? Then why is his name mentioned every time when a big clubs wants a new manager? Now it could be that some of us are far better in knowing it all than people who work in football night and day. Yes that could be the case. Why would Milan, Real Madrid, and fill in any name that has been linked with Wenger the last years want Wenger as some of us clearly know he has lost it. Maybe those who are saying that he has lost it are in fact just saying that they have lost something. They have lost the knowledge that in all football clubs there are times when you win things and times when you don’t win. Especially when you are building or have build a new stadium you will have a difficult time. Look at where the other teams that have build a new stadium in the last decade, find themselves right now.
I think we are doing pretty good if you keep that in mind. So it’s not over. It’s just a new start. You just have to open your eyes and want to see it.
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If you want to make a comment for the first time read this
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The corruption in progress article
Read between the lines of the Arsenal statement on Cesc
thank god for this article, well written mate. i’m american and i absolutely love football (yours, not ours as much)and the one thing i couldnt understand is the expectance that EVERY fan of EVERY team has for their respective team to win a trophy. in american football, its much different, perhaps because winning the most prestigous trophy in our football involves a tournament, not based on aggregate, but single elimination, sometimes eliminating the best team in the process. i find it very interesting because fans of our football are more happy they won a trophy, rather than demanding it season after season, in fact, if they win it more than one year in a row it is astonishing. but anyway, good article, its good to see not everyone has that “WE MUST WIN EVERYTHING” mentality, but still supports the team through and through. I certainly recognize what wenger has done for arsenal, especially in terms of setting up a future, i wish that i could see some of our professional sports do that here on this side of the pond…
the best article I have read in a long time. I wonder how many managers can build a new stadium, build a club for the future, come in the top 4 of the EPL consistently, reach knockout stages of Champions League consistently and spend 1/4th the amount which the other top 4 clubs in England are spending. Only one I suppose – Arsene Wenger.
word.
A good article. There is no doubt that every player mentioned left at the right time i.e. when their powers were on the wain. There have been a few failure signings since…..players who haven’t settled and those who felt the grass was greener, when it wasn’t. Arshavin,Bendtner and even Fabregas…BEWARE
Nice article, Walter! It’s very hard (outside of England) to understand why AW has to “pay the price”, as you put it.
BTW, the French expression is: “après nous, le déluge”: The noun “déluge” is in the masculine (you know, these grammatical genders in French -;). I found that you used the expression pretty well in your English, so I hope that I am just helping to make it prettier for the next time.
AW & the board are building a club for the long term, something that does not fit with fans’ short term expectations. It’s OK for fans not to understand, and for AW to go on with his plans. I for one confess to not knowing a superior manager to AW who’s willing to come to Arsenal and work with our limited resources.
Quite a poorly written piece in parts, the 4th paragraph in particular, but the main body showed the writer has a keen eye. I thoroughly agree with the points made about Arsene Wenger and when looking back in the future nobody will see the barren years. Instead we’ll still be enjoying the fruits of his labour and our great-great-great Grandchildren after we’re long gone will know who he was, just like we all know Herbert Chapman.
Anyone who believes Cesc is leaving this Summer is deluded and no real fans will be needing assurances from our Captain, I just hope the morons writing rubbish about him and slagging him off in some cases don’t push him out the door. They’re more like Spurs fans when you compare their hounding of Alan Sugar, Martin Jol and George Graham.
I’ll finish by saying I don’t like like reading blogs which give the impression that Arsenal FC Started in 1996. There were legends at Arsenal before then. I know the article is primarily analysing Arsene Wenger’s reign at Arsenal, but it hasn’t been compared with other periods in our history … which is the essence of Untold Arsenal.
Swiss gooner I feel a bit ashamed as French should be my second language as I am from Belgium. But I must admit that my English is better than my French ….
Fine article Walter.
Arsenal1Again perhaps you would care to write an article in Flemish?
Those who criticise rarely attempt themselves.
If you choose to condescend, you should do it from a superior position.
Condescension is an artform…..not that you would know 😉
see how that works?
Swissgooner
If you want to be pedantic, the expression is actually “Après moi le déluge”.
‘Just like the manager who will stick to his players. Have you ever heard a manager openly saying that his player is dross or rubbish? The manager who would do such a thing is a bad manager. Because a manager his job is to build up his players and not to break them down.’
Would you agree that an autocratic manager would see it as excellent management to break a player who he cannot bend to his will through orders, not engagement, then sell that broken player for big money through talking him up in the Press? Would such a manager use all kinds of coercion, including bugging a player in their own home?? Ask some players………..
I won’t comment on who might act like that, but I think you should look at more base actions in the world of football management.
You might also think that few managers will sell players to top clubs hoping for them to do really well, unless they will be buying players from those clubs also. As it might well mean that they would suffer defeat by a former player without the opposite being potentially true also.
When that occurs after a manager has shown that they are no longer the right manager for a player, it gets ugly.
I’ll let you think about which managers might act in that manner……..
Because you seem to possess an attitude that fans are delusional, players are greedy, other website hosts are paranoid schizophrenics but managers all act like saints.
It ain’t so, Walter……….the world is full of trickery and managers are as tricky as anyone………..
Loved the post. I think theres only thing I’m unhappy about with Wenger. That is just his stubborn refusal to admit when he’s wrong (Flapyanski and Denilshit).
Sure, you could go on and on about his accolades, but at the end of the day. Theres only one thing the average fan cares for – silverware. Whats more, its criticism that makes one better. If anything, you could argue that fans asking for more would be a good thing.
However, like you said (and I wholeheartedly agree), the gift of hindsight is both a boon and bane. We should be giving our support to Wenger (but to a limit, look at Liverpool!) and I suppose that for some, 5 years gone without anything to say for it is past theirs.
At the end of the day, there always are two sides to every coin, and I guess its just a question of where you stand and how you look at it.
Blimey, I go for week in France, spend my time struggling to read L’Équipe and come back to find Untold reader’s debating whether it is “après nous, le déluge” or “après moi, le déluge”.
(Wasn’t the latter reportedly said by the Sun King Louis XIV, or maybe he said the former)?
Anyway, I am delighted to find the intellectual level is as high as ever.
Just one thing (and then I must go and start the washing machine after 8 hours on trains today) – Josh, how do you know that “Theres only one thing the average fan cares for – silverware.”? Judging by the overwhelming show of support that Lord Wenger got after the Fulham game, what the average fan in the stadium is concerned about is the Wenger vision: keeping the club going, not bankrupting the club, and being ready to take over the world the moment the financial doping is stopped.
Although I would concede that the fans in the stadium are possibly not your average fans, any more than the readers of blogs are your average fan.
PS I’ve asked Walter to keep editing the site while I try to get the washing machine to work.
Hey thanks dude,
You are very right in all your statements. Arsene does the job off pitch, the rest if off to the players. It’s so much easier blaming Arsene isn’t it?
Arsena has and will always be the best in my eyes. Maybe if he hadn’t been no one would have seen beautiful in England… Also Financially he brought the club to a non attainable level.
We love you arsene. “In arsene we will forever trust”…
I think the article could have had a bit more balance because I thought it was slightly one-sided.
we can not bang on about players being loyal when wenger is ready to sell them as soon as they lose a yard of pace. dennis bergkamp sad the boss was letting him go because the test 9 stats) showed he was on the decline.
in the new regime i think tony adams would have been sold or only offered a year contract as soon as he hit 29 and 364 days old. Players like Henry and Viera should have had testimonials.
It is very subjective to say the players that were sold weren’t successful Henry’s stats at Barca were impressive, Viera had a few decent seasons in him,pires got injured, Bergkamp naturally had to retire.
Too many arsenal fans utter the lines no player is any good after leaving Arsenal but I think I could name a team full players that left and still played well
cole
upson
campbell (first time)
pires
viera
gilberto
flamini
overmars
Anelka
Henry
most of these players left for nothing, were offered one year deals, of left for peanuts. I am an admirer of Arsenal Wenger but he is absolutely ruthless when players get to a certain age they know they need to go because leboss will show them le door.
There is many players I can list that wenger bought that were terrible, oneleg luzny springs to mind instantly, everyone ignores the numerous flops that he has bought and some for big money I admit by enlarge he has spent peanuts.
I do think arsene nearly thought of everything and we would have been dominating now if it weren’t for city and man city how changed the game completely.
I feel too many people at arsenal are at the extreme they either hate wenger want him out and point to all the usual reasons why he should go. And that he should of done this and done that, but on the other hand you get those rose tinted everything is fine type people. Not everything at arsenal is rosy but that except what ever spin comes out of the board or out of arsenal. I consider myself to be neutral I am not a d7g but im not a wengerian either.
Maybe wenger was right to sell those players when he did the man live3s and breathes football, he doesn’t go to sleep when arsenal lose and he sure know a hell of a lot more than about football and a lot more besides, he has put the club in an unbelievable shape and I personally will be holding up a banner when the naming rights for the stadium come up for renewal to name the stadium the arsenal wenger stadium in tribute to this great man.
Without saying something that hasn’t been said before something’s need to change, sometimes you can be too close to the problem to find the solution. It is amazing how divided arsenal fans have become.
IMO I don’t want him to buy every player under the sun at inflated prices but occasions like when Torres was up for sale we offered 10 million and Ath Madrid wanted 15million I believe and we wouldn’t budge, sometimes you just need to get your man. I haven’t got a problem with project youth but the profile of a good team dictates you need some experience and since all players with experience are only offered a short lease of life that is not going to happen. Personally I don’t believe everything Arsene says, he makes excuses, won’t admit when he is wrong, even when he is forced to concede the defence was good enough at the end of the 2008/09 season he only bought TV5.
I totally agree with the point money isn’t always the answer, and all the D&G crew shut up when the arsenal are playing well, Arsene has proved many people wrong and I think he is a visionary when it comes to modern football band how to run a football club ,but I cant help but ask is it getting time to move the old man upstairs as a director.
These I just my views but when does one call time on wengers project do we wait 10 years, 15years or even 20, when do you draw the line maybe this visionary has taken this far but maybe he is not the man to take us to the next step, please some one ask where and when do you think enough is enough
Gooner80 I note that you are a bit like a broken record, you keep coming on here and subtlety and in a nutshell saying Wenger should go now because we haven’t won anything for 5 years and the current team is rubbish.
I think debate is good and everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you are getting a bit boring. Rather than people having to put the effort in to defend the truth about alot of the above players, I would challenge you to prove evidence that these players continued to perform at their peak and analysis of their injury record as a ratio of their games played following their departure from Arsenal.
If simply comes down to your opinion and judgement of the players, then I will choose Arsene’s over yours every time.
No where have I said the current team is rubbish. I think le boss is a visionary probably ahead of his team. Wenger knows more about football than most, I believe in balanced argument not an orgy to everything Arsene Wenger does. What I am trying to say is the truth lies somewhere in between the D&G (doom and gloom) and rose tinted glasses that alot of wengerians adopt is stuck at the extreme.
ps i have given stats on players like TTs record, upson is certainly better than senderos even wenger regrets selling him, there is too many transfers to go over and alot of football is subjective and since i dont have access to opta i can prove everything,but you cant prove it whole heartedly the other way either
I must stress I want this team to succeed so badly it hurts, I feel pain when we lose,I want wenger to show the world how it’s done, I will however question things and weigh up both sides of an argument
pps Goonergal just answer me this honestly how long is acceptable? how many of our players will stick around if hypothetically we won nothing for 5 years?
Gooner80 where did we not get what they were worth at the time
cole – £5M plus Gallas
upson – £3M
campbell (first time) – asked to be released so he could play abroad
pires – out of contract
viera – £13M
gilberto – £3M
flamini – out of contract
overmars – £15M
Anelka – £22M
Henry – £16M
Thats £77M taken in on the 7 players we got a fee for, yes I can see how you think we gave them away
Flamini has not held down a regular place at AC in his two years there
Overmars was plagued by injury
Henry has never reached the standard he had at Arsenal with Barca, despite being in a great team
Cole still has more medals from his time with Arsenal than he has at Chelsea
PV4 never hit the standard he had with us
Pires had one very good season in spain, then declined
Gilberto is in a weak league
Anelka has been good but still has roamed from club to club
Like any manager in a 13 year reign there will be failures in the transfer marker, but gooner80 I would like you to list the players you say wenger spent big money on who failed badly, try to remember what these failures won while at Arsenal before you construct your list, it might help you avoid looking even sillier
To clear the déluge matter: In my school days, which are rather a long time behind me we had one year a French book which had the title “Après nous, lE déluge. The le/la mistake is all mine and I have no excuse for it. I will write it down 100 times this evening. 😉
The title of the book was in the nous form as it was a book that the whole class used and it was a bit of a funny change of the original quote. As it was a book that in those days had a bit of a thing going through the whole book with taking care of the world. Don’t know if this all make sense to you but well it did and does for me.
Anyway, to follow up with some history lesson: The phrase “Après moi, le déluge” (“After me, the deluge”) is attributed to the King of France Louis XV (1710-1774). But according to another interpretation, the phrase may have been coined not by the king himself, but by his most famous lover, Madame de Pompadour (1721-1764).
And I didn’t know the word deluge is an existing word in English so even I have learned a few things today.
Anyway, I do think I have caused the most strange discussion on an Arsenal blog ever.
Kudos Walter!
But I will even say this in the context of the Legends leaving Arsenal… Each have had the endless love in regards to the Manager. And, if they wanted to stay it would have been because of what they showed in respect to History. I am positive that when they sat with the manager it was them who opted to leave. Once they said “I want to leave” That is when the Manager made business good for Arsenal. Never before that! AW is not a man who inspires lust for depriving players of what is due to them. He is honourable in what he does for both Arsenal and player!
I personally agree with the timing for all the departures except for the Gilberto one.. Choosing Gallas as captain instead of him might also have displayed some kind of bias on Wenger’s part. All is well now so really there’s no point looking back. Instead i’m looking forward to having a proper no. 10 again.
“But looking back is sometimes dangerous because we see the past that we want to remember and not the past that has happened in reality.”
how true….
you rock dude.
To follow up with defending Wenger, Gooner80 your list is indeed flawed as there were clear reasons to why all of them left when they did with a majority of those decisions justified.
Overmars: $25m – Petit’s value was only $5m then. You can’t hold back someone who has served the group amicably in his best years who wants to try another league and at the same time received a then record transfer fee for a Dutchman. Pires was his replacement plus Overmars was part of the Barcelona team that failed to win anything significant in the 3-4 years he was there so no fault can be laid there on Wenger.
Anelka/Flamini: They both had a sook about lack of respect and money blah blah. Flamini said he woulda signed if offered a contract earlier. True, but also note Flamini was a headless but tireless chicken on the field under the 2nd half of the season with Gilberto out from a long term injury and Lassana Diarra was there at the time. (We lost out on this guy because he probably had a crap agent providing poor advice at the time saying he’ll get into the Euro Cup Squad if he joined Portsmouth. Anyway, although this was a regrettable sale we had a massive sale on clause attached to him so we pocketed a big chunk of the $20m Real offered.) Anelka is le Sulk. End of story. Wenger sold him for good money and at the right time. Just a pity we didn’t buy him back when he finally matured.
Upson – This is a very grey area as Upson was a decent young CB back then but was no world breaker. He was 22 and wanted games which wenger only considered him to be 3rd or 4th choice. This decision backfired as the person preferred over Upson was none other than Cygan……. (Didn’t work out but don’t ignore the fact that Cygan led Lille to the CL plus was one of the best French players of the year or something the year before he joined us) So i would say this was a calculated gamble that didn’t work out.
Cole – when someone who loves the club and gets offered $5k a week less in the contract. Without going back to talk to Arsenal…. has a hissy fit and goes meet Kenyon and Mourinho. Also was married to one of the hottest woman in Europe but decides to cheat on her with shockers. I believe 90% of true gooners would not want to keep him with such lack of professionalism and respect. Its disappointing as he is still the only fullback to date that I have watched that can match Ronaldo.
Vieira… now my only regret is that we only got $13.8m for him. Wenger sold him to allow Cesc to grow and grow he did. If this decision was not made, Cesc may have never been able to become the superstar he is now. Lets not dwell on what ifs but I think this was a gamble that worked out. If there was any fault, it woulda been not selling him a year earlier (Vieira was injured or out of form a vast majority of that season) for $30m and bought Carrick for $3m (He wanted to join us)
Henry – He wanted to leave and as mentioned by others in their responses above, he gave his all for us and wanted to try new pastures. Arsenal owed it to him after 9 years. Lets also not forget he was injured a large chunk of his final season. But from $50m from real and barca to only $16.5m the next . Alot of money lost there…..
Pires was painful to watch in the last 2 seasons despite him scoring about 10 tap ins a year. It was clear he needed to go as the English pace was too much for him at that stage.
Campbell was having a nervous breakdown at the time and just needed to leave London so it wasn’t really much we could do.
Gilberto was someone we wanted to keep but he still wanted to be a 1st team player while Wenger saw him as a squad player. This is another player who has given his prime years to Arsenal. We just respected his wishes and returned the favor of what he did for us as the invisible wall.
Wenger has made transfer and squad errors for wasting money on the likes of Jeffers, Reyes, Wright, Cygan and not buying Zlatan as an 18 year old, Palacios,Joe Cole in 2004, Carrick in 2004, convincing Diarra to stay etc… but these are common Management errors that the best of them make.
Sorry for being so critical but the only unique flaws for a world class manager is his refusal to get jibbed with overpriced but fantastic players and buying alot of injury prone stars.
We can’t rip out 30m for 18 year olds like Man Utd did nor can we offer half the squad $100k+ a week salaries like Chelsea and Man City. We just have to accept that we need everything to work our way to win again (injuries,more injuries, kids fulfilling potential) until more of the loan has been paid off.
I’m only worried the work and sacrifice Wenger has made financially doesn’t just end up in the board’s or Hicks,Gillett,Glazer-like’s personal wallets…….
Coming from a financial background and having analysed Arsenal’s books with the other big 4’s financials, we have done the best we possibly could when you factor in financial and sporting outcomes. Wenger is the main reason we have been able to get so far with what we had. Lets just keep in mind that we have progressed alot and was a team that was beginning to flounder in the later Graham and Rioch years. I believe the time to judge Wenger on winning trophies will really be this year or next year as we now do have the financial resources to properly strengthen the squad if required.
I apologise Walter, I hadn’t realised Flemish was your first language until you mentioned it after my post …. I suspect nobody did, besides Terence McGovern of course. 😉
Excellent article… really insightful and accurate… i’m really glad someone went out and said all this cos all the stick that arsene’s been getting is just wrong…he’s the only man to get the club into a champion’s cup final and that takes some doing…things may have gone a bit sour since then, but if anyone can bring the club back up it is him… props to u Walter Broeckx for a really well-written article
Omniscience is such a heavy burden to bear sigh 😉
Why all this noise about
Post cut because of multiple postings from one IP using same style, same argument, but different email addresses
Wenger – IP address being used by several different posters all with the same style and argument. This is against the rules of the site – please see note at end of most articles.
sorry this has been cut – same IP address being used by different posters saying virtually same thing within seconds of each other.
The BofD don’t care about trophies, – sorry this has been cut – same IP address being used by different posters saying virtually same thing within seconds of each other.
Arsenal1Again, no problem.
Maybe you are rather new to the site as the longer, not saying older, visitors know that I’m not an English speaking person and live in Flanders and that Flemish is my mother language. If you don’t know Flemish it is Dutch that is spoken in Flanders (northern part of Belgium)
And it looks like even my French is not any more what it used to be… 😉
In my first weeks Tony mentioned this after the article but he let that away after a few weeks or months. Maybe every know and then we could repeat that short notice of my origins for new visitors at the end an article from my hand?
Walter your admiration and devotion to wenger is dominant. Wenger is wanted by a lot of people. What seems to evade your post is wenger, is stubborn. He never thinks he commits errors and once he makes his mind up that is it. Never alters his views. Never entertains notions that oppose him. Never likes to be told he is wrong or this work is fruitless. Never accepts failure. Defeat is overbearing as he can not fathom what it entails. Spain or Italy will not tolerate trophy-less season let alone two. Wenger has found his niche in Arsenal no pressure, no control and no ambition. This is why wenger will stick round knowing Europe is not his domain nor will it be. Wenger will never go to big clubs like the Milans and the Real Madrids because he wont be given anytime to experiment with his obsession with youths. If he dosen’t win anything in his first season at those big clubs….he will be sent back on the first plane back to France lol. Wenger loves it at Arsenal because there is no pressure to win anything and his only target is to finish in the top four every season and the board is happy. If i recalll, Wenger did an interview in the middle of last season when he said that “he wanted a trophy before he would leave”. Given that this still looks light years away, I’m filled with dread that we could still be left with Wenger foe several years yet.The man has unquestionably passed his sell by date, he’s a Duracell rather than an Ever Ready battery, but seems less and less capable with each passing season.For five years now, he’s tinkered with the team to little effect. He’s persisted with dross like Cygan, Senderos and Silvestre, when every other human being on the planet could see they were rubbish. He’s kept faith for four years or more with players like Denilson and Diaby who are still not good enough. He’s thrown away chances to get half-decent goalkeepers in and given more playing time to two of the club’s worst ever goalkeepers we’ve had. Now we’re limked to another creative midget and a goalkeeper who’s 37 years old. This is the mighty Arsenal, one of the top clubs in Europe, who need to win sliverware to retain and attract top players and we don’t seem concerned. I couldn’t care less whether other clubs have bought players in- our situation is dire. I would be less concerned if every other summer and January transfer window hadn’t ended in the same old pathetic excuses from Wenger. All other big clubs address their urgent needs- it’s only us who can never close deals- how credible is that? If Wenger really loved this club, he would tell the Board to get another top man in when his contract expires. eg. “tap up” Hiddink for the season 2011-12. Come on Gaziids, show us what you’re made of, do something… anything!
Munaf,
apart from 1 Carling cup game Wenger hasn’t played “dross” Senderos in the last 2 seasons. Cygan has been gone for… well I don’t know exactly but it has been a while. Yes Silvestre our 6th choise CB was still here last season. What do you expect as a 6th choise centre back? That is a position that is for an older player who is happy to sit on the bench or for a younger player who wants to get off the bench. If Wenger would throw in a player like Bartley you would say he is obsessed with his youth. He now had send Bartley out to gain experience at another club and so we had to do with Silvestre. But no first class defender will come to Arsenal to become 6th choise centre back.
And another note about Silvestre he has played 7 years for MU. And it was all those years that SAF kept him. Because he was dross? And I’m not saying Silvestre is the best CB we have ever had but don’t forget that he was 6th choise CB.
Walter go back A few years ago, Wenger was hot property as a manager. I am not so sure now but if Rafa can find a job at a top club like Inter and Martin O’Neill is seriously linked to Liverpool it just shows what a shortage of managers there are. I am sure if Wenger left he would get a good job but I doubt Wenger would survive at a Madrid, Barca or Milan cos he is not a winner nor a great tactician. He would certainly as you say not be allowed to go trophy-less for 5 years or produce such naive teams. Wenger does have a cushy number at AFC. No one can doubt his intensity but its that of a bitter man trying to prove the world wrong. His churlishness is becoming embarrassing. You should hear the stories of the stick he gets at away grounds. If he thinks having the best team of performing midgets is something to be proud of then he needs a reality check. The best bet would be to push him up to Director of Football and let him run the academy and to get in a manager who can win big games. As a motivator, tactician and dealer AW is looking weak
But the point is Walter that Silvestre is nowhere near the class we expect for Arsenal. He is very very far away from our class of player. Yes he was 6th choice and that’s a fair point but we all know Gallas was injury prone and Doujour was out for the season and the others either loaned out or very inexperienced but even Wenger had so little trust in him that he then brought in another veteran to come in ahead of Silvestre, yes cambell was immense, a hero, but he was so far better than anyone expected. Silvestre would have NEVER got into Chelsea/Lpool/City/Spuds n Utds team so why was he being paid by us? I went to the Hull game at the Emirates and our players were visibly purposely not passing to him, even when he was almost the only option. No offence to the guy but I bet he couldn’t believe his luck when he was offered a contract.
You have some valid points Munaf
i asked the question when will enough be enough, not one wenger supporter will answer this question. imo i think he has one to two seasons left. 7- 8 years without a trophy is scandalous for a club like arsenal we are not minnows
Arsene all through his reign has persisted with other players like one leg, and stepanovs when we got trashed 6-1 by man u,Vivas who cost us the league, aluminium who cost us the league, players like kaba diawara.
since this article is about whether Wenger has lost it I am merely saying that Wenger has been so successful and built up such a reputation he has gained so much power people dare not question his reign. The big man makes some mistakes and in the big games his tactics have been disgraceful to darn right arrogant, he just believes arsenal can play their way and wont adapt to the opposition that is how chelsea and man u ripped us apart.
In boxing a fighter always believes they have one more fight in them, so they can into the ring, they show promise but round after round they are losing sometimes the towel needs to be thrown in to save themselves from them self
my biggest fear is that Wenger is endangering his legacy,when the season starts I will back every player and the manager because as fans we can not be divided but while we are not playing we do need to question some of the things he does. No doubt his financial management is unquestionable and I am so glad it was him that has been in charge during the spending madness,but other good managers have one things with less of a budget the worrying thing as well all these players are loyal to wenger not to arsenal, they play for wenger not for arsenal, it takes a bigger man to admit when he is wrong please dont be stubborn I want to remember you as the greatest, successs on the pitch is very important on the finance and attracting players if they dont succeed on the pitch in the long term the finances off the field will suffer
the reason i question wenger at all and it has only been after this season because the league was for the taking this year, but again we lost it at Birmingham, the squad was stretched too thinly concentrating on champs league and the league and both suffered, we could have even finished second but we screwed that up and in the end we were only a few point better off than the previous season, sometimes there is no excuse