By Tony Attwood
“If we are victorious in one more battle … we shall be utterly ruined.”
Plutarch
I know that I won’t change anyone’s mind over the EU – the debate that we had before the referendum was (for me, and this is a personal point of view) just about the lowest level of debate I have experienced since trying to discuss the merits of Bob Dylan with a bunch of 13 year olds in Willesden.
But if you happen to share with me the view (that I have expressed elsewhere on Untold) that leaving the EU will harm Arsenal and the Premier League but give more power to the FA (whom, as you may know I find a truly awful, awful organisation), you might care to sign the petition below.
The FA has already made it clear that they want to impose further restrictions (beyond the “25” rule) about the number of non-UK players that can be used, and so the home-grown rule will quickly become a dominant factor. Indeed with the FA now in charge of agreements as to which “foreigners” can play in the League, we will soon be heading back to a league that looks rather like it did before Mr Wenger came along and brought the likes of Thierry Henry and Robert Pires along.
Besides, although many people (52% of the electorate who voted presumably) don’t feel that leaving the EU will have negative effects on the economy, there are a lot of us who do feel that the evidence is 100% showing that the UK economy will quickly go into reverse, house prices will collapse (good for those who previously couldn’t buy a house, but a disaster for the house building industry), investment will drop, unemployment will rise.
I’m not trying to recreate the argument at all. I am just saying that if you feel the same way as I do about this, there is one little something you can do.
Now I know it is easy to say that protesting about anything “won’t do any good”, but then doing nothing rarely does any good either, and sometimes, just sometimes, action does work.
One could argue that running Untold doesn’t do any good – we haven’t changed anything much in the Premier League despite all our campaigning – and yet I would argue that we have shown all of us who have the sort of views that Untold extols that we are not alone (although sometimes it can feel like that). We have also brought some more rigorous debate to the issue of Arsenal, football, and the decline of the mass media vis a vis football. And there has been some movement of opinion on areas we have highlighted.
So if you are worried (or even appalled) by the outcome of the referendum, and you live in the United Kingdom, please do consider spending just 20 seconds to fill in this form linked below. Then go to your email in box, and then click on the link – that will register your vote.
Of course Parliament won’t say, “oh look we’ve got 1 million people signing this referendum” and then do what is suggested. But I see this as a first step.
Those wishing for an exit have nothing at all to worry about. They won the election, and they believe only good can come out of their victory. So fine – no need to debate that. But for the minority of the electorate who voted to stay, this is going to be a time of great worry. The fact that $2,000,000,000 has been wiped off the value of shares around the world so far might seem irrelevant to some, but to anyone who has been saving for a pension, or indeed anything else, it is a total disaster.
The Remain campaign was appallingly badly run, and, since I work in advertising, I did take the time to find out what was going wrong. From what I could gather from people involved, each week the agencies put forwards a new biting campaign, the politicos looked at it, said that it didn’t seem right, and walked away – or worse changed it.
It is what happens in my agency all the time; clients hire us but then think they know more about advertising than we do. But still it is rather horrific to find it happening in something so vital, and I suspect this was a major factor in the defeat of the Remain side.
Anyway, as you may know, I believe the Leave vote will profoundly affect the Premier League for the worse, and I also believe that matters are not over yet regarding Britain and Europe. If you think I’m a total nutter, fair enough, vast numbers of people have already said that on Untold so it won’t be anything new, but if you do live in the UK and you think it is worth doing something, join the million or so of us, that are still trying.
Petition EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
And even if you don’t want to sign you might enjoy this…
Democracy can be inconvenient but it is better than any other option. Accept it and stick to your football blog?
Tony,
I am in no doubt whatsoever that leaving the EU is a disaster on so many levels.
From football through to workers rights, as I have gone into in more depth elsewhere, we are in the shit.
I know signing the petition is highly unlikely to make the slightest difference, because at the end of the day it was a democratic vote, and the people decided, for better or worse, to leave.
But for me to do nothing is not an option.
All we can hope for is that the sheer weight of numbers that I have no doubt will add there name to this petition will be enough.
Sadly I fear it will not be.
Normally a big fan of this site but I cannot support fascism. You should respect the will of the people who took on big business, the giant corporations and most of the political establishment. Brexit was a great day for working class folk who have been sold down the river and the no borders globalist scum will just have to lump it. We Brits took back control of our country and hopefully it will be the catalyst for other proud nation states in Europe to do the same. So you can stick that petition up your arse my old son.
Did I dream it or was Untold-Arsenal carrying a Vote Leave banner advert on Wednesday? I was so disgusted I changed my mind about bookmarking your site.
As a London born Irishman who has 3 generations of relative’s living and working in England. I have to say economically it feels like putting a gun in ones mouth and pulling the trigger and believing major good will come of it.
Johnno
If it’s so good for ‘working Class folk’, why have the TUC, who surely represent ‘working class folk’ more than anybody, instigated there own petition to try and prevent the Brits who “have taken back control of our Country”, (that’s going to be the likes of Boris Johnson and his ilk, in case you hadn’t realised) from changing the EU laws that currently protect the ‘Working class folk’ you seem to think are going to be so better off?
MPs Europe has refused to listen to the British people who have had reservations for years on the direction of the country. The fact that big business makes redundancies when making vast profits and their greed shows no stopping. If the middle and upper classes do not listen to ordinary people then expect a bloody nose. It’s no surprise that areas with large migrant numbers voted out. If it had continued we would have seen an ugly right wing uprising. I am sad we are out but I am pleased the arrogant Brussel’s free loaders and the smug people not affected by their policies had their arrogance stuffed down their throats. You should show democracy more respect even when you do not agree with it.
Jambug. I`m a union man and I can tell you right now that many many many of us voted leave. Unskilled, uncontrolled mass immigration has had a catastrophic effect on wages in this country and it is low income workers who have been hit hardest. Young working class kids who leave school with little or no education are being thrown on the scrapheap and the party who was formed to give them a voice have abandoned them. I live in Gateshead now and there is an incredible anger at the Labour Party, it was obvious to anyone who lives up here that working class folk were going to vote for leave. Thats why almost every area in the Labour heartlands voted for Brexit. Maybe you know better than them ay? Afterall we are all just poorly educated little Englanders and a bunch of racist bigots arent we? Or maybe you are just another wanna be leftie pushing a Neo Liberal agenda who lives in his London bubble. So go ahead and sign the petition, it wont get you anywhere and it will make us Brexiteers laugh even more(if thats possible). No wonder you supported remaining, that bunch of Quislings never had much time for Democracy either.
KR
Surely, living in a democracy, it is my democratic right to express my disapproval as loud and as often as I like, and, if I wish, to sign as many petitions as I like ?
“The fact that big business makes redundancies when making vast profits and their greed shows no stopping. If the middle and upper classes do not listen to ordinary people then expect a bloody nose”
This may of given big business a bloody nose, but they will recover. But at the end of the day it will not change a thing, in fact it has the potential to make things even worse. The problem is, it’s given Working Class people an even bigger bloody nose, and once there rights have been stripped to the core they may never recover.
How has taking away power from the freeloaders in Brussels, as arrogant as they may be, and giving it to Westminster and the likes of Boris Johnson (who are obviously not freeloading or arrogant in any way shape or form), helped hard working men and women, migrants, or immigrants, in any way shape or form ?
Just feeling good about ‘stuffing there arrogance down there throats’ is all well and good, but alas it will be a very short lived feeling. When the dust settles and the reality of who you have replaced them with kicks in, I’m afraid that warm feeling will of changed into the bitterest chill.
And by the way, who are these ‘smug people’ to whom you refer?
So you didn’t like the result so you want to do it again. Shall we re run general elections till you get the party you want? How about if Arsenal lose, shall we replay till the score is right? It’s DEMOCRACY you spoilt brat
Johnno
“Maybe you know better than them ay? Afterall we are all just poorly educated little Englanders and a bunch of racist bigots arent we?”
No need for that is there.
I am as entitled to my view as you. I too have been in a Union all my life.
If you think you will be better off now that’s up to you, but getting all bitter and twisted with me, or anyone else who doesn’t agree with you for that matter, is not going to help is it?
To allow significant change, unsupported by a SIGNIFICANT majority is palpably wrong.
The notion of requiring 60% if the voters (if less than 75% vote) to be in favour of change, is a protection of democracy.
That is the fair-minded (IMHO) notion behind the petition.
Johnno your country is made up of 4 countries two of them voted to stay.
Re. Silent Stan, Absolutely spot on mate. Re. Jambug, its not me being getting all bitter and twisted, it is the people signing a petition because they cant accept the will of the people. Its called fascism.
Beware of unintended consequences how is this for an outcome Scotland votes again for independence and northern Ireland votes to become part of the Republic so your newly free country will be a very different from the one to day.
Matt
I certainly didn’t know about it. Our advertising at the top of the page and on the right is licensed to an advertising agency and the arrangements are certainly that we don’t carry any political or religious advertising. I obviously watch the site multiple times a day, as part of my duties as publisher, and I didn’t see anything. I will investigate to see if there was, and will sort matters out with the agency if it did happen.
For what it is worth I’m running Brexit Avenue on my own facebook page at the moment, which follows what is happening as a result of the vote, and will shortly start Boris and the Triffids, as a fictional review of events since the vote. If you can find me on Facebook (Tony Attwood) you can follow but I am not the only TA on Facebook.
Barry, not too sure how the notion of not debating something fits in with any notion of democracy. Of course I accept democratic votes – that is self-evident in the post, I am looking at the consequences for football (as you say it is a football blog) of the vote of the people. To stop such discussion would be utterly undemocratic and not something I would accept at all.
Of course the UK’s place in the world as a world leader with a strong economy is in important. Important yes but not at the loss of a country’s sovereignty.
In 1975 when the first referendum was held. Those promoting the UK staying in the Community claimed that UK would not lose its sovereignty, but that was already happening. No mention was made of this fact. Over the years the UK sovereignty has been whittled away. Other members have had the same experience.
I believe that what has brought this point into focus is that the UK and England in particular became a magnet for economic immigrants from the member countries that have a lower cost of living.
Naturally if you live in a low pay country and you have the chance of better pay in a richer country you go there. As we know England has been flooded with cheap labour.
Many British have made their career legally helping these immigrants.
It has created an employers market, which works in great favour of the employers.
It has created a housing shortage beyond our imagination. In its wake the ‘to rent’ market has become a landlords fantasy with people faced with rents beyond the low pay salaries. It is not unknown that people have been found living in conditions which would have been banned had they been animals.
May be leaving EC will not change this situation but at the moment the UK can not even try to resolve this problem. It cannot stop the problem from getting worse.
However once independent of Europe the UK can decide for itself what it does about the situation.
In 1996 we went out on penalties to Germany in the European Championship.
I heard how a man in a restaurant (where they were watching the game) stood up and announced. ‘Now that is over we can go back to being normal’.
Going back to be a sovereign country once again wont happen ‘overnight’.
However ‘overnight’ the monkey on our back fell off and that feels good.
As the man in the restaurant said ‘Now we can go back to being normal’.
Johnno
I do believe in democracy and as such it is as much my democratic right to sign as many petitions as I like, as it is yours to accuse Tony, myself and anybody else who wants to sign one, a fascist.
The truth is, the age I am, and the position I am in, in or out of the EU will make very little difference to my personal life.
I also have no children.
My sole motivation behind what I am saying is that I truly believe that leaving the EU, and thereby the protection it’s laws afford the working man, will be an utter disaster for said working man, not just now but for generations to come when I’m long gone.
I concede there are major problems with the EU, and they would of have had to of been addressed, but now we are not in the EU we have absolutely no say at all as to how the EU resolves those issues, if at all.
But the fact of the matter is we are out, and as you say, democratically so, do you really think that you, a working man, will be better off with Westminster being in sole control of workers rights?
If so, and you are happy with that, and you think you and your fellow working man will be better off then fine. I hope for your sake you are right, because if you are not, things have just got a damn sight worse.
In conclusion, I’m sorry you think I’m a fascist, I can assure you I am not. But I do care passionately about workers rights, and as undemocratic as you may think I am by signing this petition, I will sign as many as I feel I need to in an effort to overturn what I feel is a disastrous decision for the working man.
Re. Colario. Talk about hitting the nail on the head, what a great post my friend. The next 5 or 6 month will be a bit rocky but in the long run, we`ll be just fine. Power is now back where it belongs, the people. I realise that is a novelty to many people who have been mind conditioned to think bureaucrats and unelected officials are the way forward but as you say, we can now go back to being normal. A proud sovereign nation standing on their own two feet and taking control of their own destiny.
Johnno
“Power is now back where it belongs, the people.”
If you mean by ‘the people’ the good folk of Westminster, then you are correct.
If on the other hand you mean by ‘the people’ the likes of you and Colario then you are in for a nasty shock I’m afraid.
Re. Jambug, I`m not going to stay on here all night so I will make this my last post as I want to watch the Football. You are missing the point IMO. I dont believe for one minute that a UK government will abolish workers rights but lets say they do. We now have the power to kick them out of office and hold them accountable which is something that is almost impossible to do inside the EU. We are now masters of our own destiny, we are the boss. It reminds me of the late Tony Benn`s words. “MP`s dont have one boss, they have thousands and it is his job to represent those people until they deem otherwise, and upon leaving office he must return the powers bestowed upon him undiminished” Those are the words of a proper old Labour man who fought all his life for workers rights and who right up to his last breath spoke out against the undemocratic nature of the European Union. His son is typical of the new breed of labour politician, more at home talking up big business and neo liberalism than representing the needs of the poorest in society. Anyway, apologies if ive come across aggressive but I truly believe that the petition is an insult to democracy. Anyway, I`m outta here. Up The Arse.
Oga Tony, Sir, from the tone of this your article posting, I can conclude you’ve voted for the Remain campaign. But I could be wrong in my assertion.
Unfortunately, I don’t live in the UK and besides I am not a Briton but a Nigerian. Neither have I naturalized as a citizen of any of the regions of the UK nations. Therefore, I am not qualify to participate in this online anti Briexit Leave protest.
Nevertheless, it will be nice if the Briexit Remain campaigners who have lost out in the referendum refrain themselves from making any unguarded negative comments as to why the citizens of England and Wales had voted 51.9 – 48.1 % to oust the Remain voters from: London, Scotland and Northern Ireland who had voted to remain in the EU in a referendum which they the Remain should accept even if they don’t agree with the outcome of it. But what I don’t know is, is the Republic of Ireland not part of the UK? Because I didn’t see any votes recorded for them during the referendum. And I also did not read on the BBC referendum votes counting updates of any voting from the British Islands of the Falkland and Gilbater who I am sure must have participated in the voting. But I am not making any case out of this my observations. It’s just my inquisitiveness.
Having said all these, I think all hopes are not yet lost for the Remain campaigners to stage a comeback during the pre ratification of the final agreement by the EU and the UK in their final negotiations and agreements which could finally see the UK exit from the EU after all the pros and the cons to exit or change of heart to remain in the EU must have been patiently considered, weighted and digested by the UK citizenry in the next coming 2 years that is envisaged sufficient to completely pullout the UK from the EU. And at that point in time, the pro Remain campaigners could demand for a 2nd referendum to be staged to finally accept to exit or change position to remain in the EU.
I watched Poland knocked out Switzerland 5-4 on penalty in the last 16 of the ongoing Euro16 championship in France. That Swiss player that missed the 2nd spot kicks for Poland will be rueing his missing.
By the way Johnno, you failed to answer my question as to why the TUC, the working mans friend if ever there was one, has seen fit to draw up a petition of it’s own lobbying MP’s not to change EU workers rights legislation?
It seems they are not quite as convinced as you are, that the power is back with ‘the people’ such as yourself and Colaria, but as I suggested, rather they think it is in the hands of the good folk of Westminster.
The reaction I would prefer to see today is the EU hierarchy to recognise that they have ruined their dream of 40 odd years ago – of a free trade area – and urgently start reforming the EU – this time in a sensible direction – one which will attract all the viewpoints from within the UK.
I cannot actually see this happening, the hierarchy are a bit like the PGMO – bloody minded, unaccountable and arrogant. I can see the EU trying to close ranks and prevent the domino effect from kicking in. What they are likely to achieve is to generate another “out” pressure pot somewhere else in Europe.
I am not against the theory of a free trade area, but the EU in its present form seems to have too many downsides to be sustainable. I suspect while we may be first out, we will not be the last. I take no pleasure from this – a sensible system of international co-operation has been scuppered – but while our own politicians (from all parties) are not blameless, the real fault lies with the misguided arrogant officials in Brussels.
bjtgooner
I too hope that the EU start to reform, but alas now we have quite we have no influence over whether it does or not, or indeed any right to tell them how to do it.
I, Like you, don’t see much changing, but why should we care anymore. We’ve quit.
Now we are on our own we can apparently thrive. We can pick and choose our trade partners. We can make and break our own laws. All in the gardens rosy.
But is it.
For example, autonomy with law making and legislation is on the face of it the right and proper thing.
But can we really trust Westminster to make Laws and draw up legislation that isn’t almost entirely in favour of Big Business and there rich owners and shareholders, and to the detriment of the working man ?
The TUC’s petition suggest they don’t think so.
The Unions have already been shackled, and there is currently a concerted effort taking place to render the Unions totally impotent. Following our exit from the EU it now has a much higher chance of succeeding.
Still, it’s all a matter of opinion and our path is set, and as much as I am signing the petition, in my heart of hearts I know that it will fail and we will reap, for better or worse, what we have sewn.
@ Jambug
June 25, 2016 at 6:37 pm
Alister Cook was an English Journalist who lived in the States. Every week the BBC broadcast his review of events in America for the previous week. The BBC called the broadcast ‘Letter From America.’
In one letter he was faced with a problem in that by the time his ‘letter’ was broadcast the final outcome would be known to the world at large but at the time of writing he had no idea of the outcome.
The event he was reporting on was the lead up to President Nixon’s involvement in ‘Watergate’.
President Nixon was to speak to the nation before the broadcast of the ‘Letter’ which was written before ‘Nixon’ Spoke to the nation.
Having written what he knew of events Alister Cook resolved his problem of not knowing final out come with ‘and the rest you know.’
Jambug we know politicians are at best looking after themselves and at worst corrupt.
President Regan said ‘politicians and pampers (nappies diapers) should be changed regularly and for the same reason.’
Have our MEPs been able to stop the whittling away the right of ourselves to govern ourselves and to stop the ever increasing political power of a few in Brussels?
Yes you may be right the government in Westminster may be no better than a stinking pampers but we can change it. We can’t do that with the EU pampers.
The changes that will be made as a result of being independent of Europe may make it easier for the pampers of the FA to make life difficult for Arsenal.
If it does then it is down to us to stand up and be counted.
Jambug
The trouble is that most if not all politicians listen (or pretend to listen) to their constituents in the hours immediately before an election – afterwards they retreat to the pig trough for the next 4 or 5 years.
I have always been in favour of management and unions working together in industry – and similarly I don’t see why in the present post Brexit situation the politicians of all parties can’t forgo the pleasures of the pig trough for a while and concentrate on good governance and healing the nation – will they? – lets see – but I wouldn’t bet too much on it.
I would be happy to see a coalition formed for this purpose – will it happen? – again I wouldn’t bet on it!
OT
Arsenal Ladies won 5-1
Here is a BBC link.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36566113
bjtgooner
“I have always been in favour of management and unions working together in industry”
Here here to that, but I think that sadly those days are gone.
I have mentioned on here a few times about the current concerted effort being made to ‘destroy’ Unions.
It is an effort being played out in the High Court, using legislation that has been hanging around for a fair while, but until now has hardly been bought to the table. If the actions being taken succeed to the degree I believe they will, then to my mind it will, almost overnight render Unions virtually impotent.
We can only hope it doesn’t come to that, but alas I fear the worst, and even if it doesn’t, now without the EU regulations or ‘Red Tape’ as some like to call it, that protects so many or our rights, be assured that the laws will soon be made to ensure it does next time.
Colario
“Yes you may be right the government in Westminster may be no better than a stinking pampers but we can change it. We can’t do that with the EU pampers.”
But at least the stinking pampers of Brussels seem to give a shit about workers rights, accountable to us or not, where as our very own pampers seem hell bent on destroying any vestige of workers rights we have left, at the earliest opportunity. (see above or read the TUC petition for full details regarding there thoughts on this particular subject).
And of course it is true we can oust a Government if we are unhappy with them, but tell me, do you see a party getting in to government any time soon that will overturn the current laws that so infringe on the Unions ability to weald any real power?
Jambug
Lets hope safeguards are not eroded. I am not up to date on this, but I do know that there is a major place for the union reps in workplace (health & safety) risk assessments, so I don’t think the government could do too much to the unions without opening an extra can of worms. Hope I am not wrong.
How everything plays out will depend on common sense being applied in no small measure – hopefully with by inclusive government – fingers crossed!
bjtgooner
“……..so I don’t think the government could do too much to the unions without opening an extra can of worms. Hope I am not wrong.”
I hope you’re right, but given the following statement made by an MD at the DfT I doubt it you are:
“The boss of one of Britain’s biggest transport unions has written an open letter to transport secretary Patrick McLoughlin after one of his colleagues reportedly called Tube drivers “muppets”.
Peter Wilkinson, managing director of passenger services at the Department for Transport, is said to have made the comments during a public meeting in Croydon this week.
Wilkinson also said drivers who resisted change should “get the hell out of my industry”, saying “we have got to break them”.
—I don’t think this suggests that the Dft have any intentions of cultivating good working relations with Unions, do you?
Uk leaving the EU will harm both EU and UK. But UK will suffer more after leaving
Frankly speaking the whole Brexit issue is the US agenda led by the Jews of the worlds to break the Euro so that the US dollar remains unchallenged
Ironically Trump will also succeed to lead the Jewish cause and take the world towards its end.
As mentioned in the lead article, this campaign was pretty appalling on both sides.
I voted remain, but know many decent people with decent motives who voted otherwise.
Some believe they did shake up a government that had seemingly abandoned them, the problem is, creating a platform of power for the likes of Farrage, Gove, Boris and co is not exactly striking a blow for the common man. It is losing one political establishment, and replacing with arguably worse……wait until the new bunch rush in some of the more controversial aspects of TTIP now we are out of a rather large trading bloc. Yes, I know the EU was doing the same regarding TTIP, but would have hoped they would have been more measured in its application.
But we do not know what is going to happen. Now Cameron has had his revenge, and pretty much left it all to his successor, just hope for the countries sake, whoever comes in have more idea on what to do for the best for the country under the circumstances than they appear to at the moment.
Rosicky, wouldnt Putin have more to gain from Europe breaking up than the U.S. or Jews?
I love reading this site. It usually makes a lot of sense. But this is article is one I cannot agree with. How I voted is irrelevant. We are where we are.
What if the second referendum also arrives at the same %? Shall we have another referendum and another and another until we reach the desired 50%, 60%, 75% or whatever the % the remainers think it should be? Let’s did what the EU did to Ireland when voting for the Lisbon treaty. Get it re-run until the Irish cave in.
This is like changing the rules after the match has ended.
Further, the petition gives the EU ammunition to give us less in UK’s exit negotiations seeing how fractured UK is.
How about a petition to make the last election null and void because less than 50% voted? This would make the referendum null and void because if the Conservative Government was never elected in the first place, then it would not have been able to give the referendum.
Where we are going, we don’t need roads….
Gunner6
I doubt if there will be a second referendum, but it, seems, for now at least, people voted for something based on a pack of lies…..by a group of politicians who appear at least …..to have no clue how to put in place what they have proposed.
If this really is the case, somebody needs to step in on national interest. The referendum is not legally binding, though I dread to think the effects of going back in it.
The leaver politicians have made some big promises on limiting immigration,…and putting what were EU membership fees back into the NHS. They haven’t said a hell of a lot else….they have also, the day after the vote, pretty much said they will not be able to do what they promised their voters. Not unique in electioneering of course.
Let’s see what they have in store, if their words were empty, and lies, something needs doing.
To some , iit was Independence Day, to others a disaster, to some, the whole thing has been an embarrassment.
But Cameron has been very shrewd to one or two he may be a bit pissed off with …..you guys made your bed, lie in it, or die in it.
Outsider commenting…This was definitely a protest against the status quo. But, will it change things greatly? Obviously, one level of bureaucracy and government(ish) has been removed and that may allow for more English-centred governance, but unless I am mistaken, the de-industrialization of the North and the globablization of trade will not change nor will the concentration of wealth within the UK. And, how will the English hinterland fare once Scotland has voted for independence? Just questions.
Rather fractious and contentious issue but it will definitely have a significant impact on English Football.What type and degree of impact I cannot say….but one thing for surer, the bobble-heads that run the FA, the EPL and the PIGMOB will not change an iota! Nor will FIFA, EUFA and the mega-richclubs in England. It could lead to the breakup of the United Kingdom but who cares? At least it proves that Americans aren’t the only weirdos in the world!!!
Sorry , off topic, but seems Xhaka cannot take penalties….based on a limited sample admittedly.
Just as well he will next season play for a team that doesn’t get given them
I’m Swedish and I have been living in the UK since 1972 and love this country. I couldn’t vote but all my family and all our friends have voted out. Why? Because EU has been a disaster for the UK. Millions of jobs have gone, as in the fishing industry, farming and transport to name a few. Look at the way it has treated Greece. People are starving and everything is for sale, land, airports, you name it. All for propping up the failing Euro. The EU is a dictatorship with one goal in mind, a United States of Europe ruled by an un-elected elite. An army has already been created. I fully expected a rigged referendum because the elite of the world cannot allow UK to leave, other countries will follow and the EU will fall apart. I hope and pray that this will be the start of something momentous and maybe Sweden also will get its referendum. All I can say is “Thank you Brits, you have given us hope”.
As for Arsenal, I am sure Wenger will find a way to get the players he needs.
Mandy
What would Russia gain breaking the EU?
Realistically speaking US dollar will benefit more after Euros dream is over.
Also if you believe in religion you must be knowing how the world will end.The jews controlling the world economies and waging wars against Islam and christianity. Dont you see US controlling the world economically and militarilly which they are doing already and it is going to increase in the coming years.
Brexit and the downfall of the Euro is a part of the process.
As I have already said for me the question was not about greatness or wealth but ‘Who rules Britain?’
Edward Heath was the Conservative Prime Minister who led the country into membership Europe.
Ironically he later called a general election and his call was would you believe it ‘Who rules Britain?
Having given away the country’s right to rule itself he then claimed that his government had the right to rule Britain.
The possibility that the referendum result would be to exit was evidently not in the script of the rich, powerful and washed.
Therefore the sensationalist media is full of their knee jerk reactions to what has happened. The rich and the powerful ‘don’t like it upem’ to quote a certain Corporal Jones
The great unwashed, who dared to think for themselves for once are now the the baddies of Europe.
@Rosicky@Arsenal
What??? humour, right?
Rosicky, the EU , along with the U.S. Has crippling sanctions on Russia, which will eventually hurt Putin, or maybe those that back him ….or at least, that’s the idea.. If Europe breaks up, some may break these sanctions, worst case scenario, he may decide to do what he did in Crimea to other ex Soviet satellite countries, and there may be no strong United front to stop him rolling into say Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or wherever.
As for the U.S. Controlling the world, don’t doubt they have tried to extend their influence to an unhealthy level in the past but if that’s what they are doing now, they are not doing a very good job.
Afraid religion doesn’t really do it for me, nor does blaming the Jews, or Muslims, Catholics, Prods or anyone else, as we are all pretty much the same, warts and all That said , I am quite sure mankind will find a way to screw things up pretty badly….again
But back to the Brexit debate, ,with the leave campaign, the words of the Sex Pistols from their great Rock n roll swindle era come to mind for SOME of their voters….” Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated”
Rosicky@Arsenal
For a moment there I thought you were having a laugh with your mini anti- Semitic rant but then you posted again proving you must surely be off your rocker.
For starters , Russia might be delighted with the Brexit results seeing as England ,as part of EU ,backed the sanctions against them.
As might Iran , another heavily pro Jewish regime 🙂
@Mandy
Where do you find the patience?
Bless your heart, truly.
I can tell you now that N Ireland will not be joining the Republic. I live in Belfast and have been taking to,people in politics here and our turn out was not great plus the vote was a lot closer than people think. In the Good Friday agreement that both sides agreed to states that we will remain part of the United Kingdom as long as the Majority of people to it and a United Ireland would not be forced upon the people. Just because the Majority wanted to stay in the EU does not mean that the people here want a United Ireland and that is both sides of the coin. For Adams andMcguiness to call for a referendum here is going to start all we thought we had left behind us
No one wants another 30 yrs of innocent lives lost and there is genuine fear here that this could be started again. Adams and Sein Fein are using this result for something they have always wanted but my Catholic friends have told me that many catholic’s want to stay in Britain because they that is the best way ahead for themselves. We voted to Leave and we should get on with it without causing more chaos and God only knows what else in N Ireland. If the vote had have been Remain I would not have liked it but I would have had to swallow it and take a deep breath and got on with it. The only thong this will do if people won’t accept it is make the transition harder and that right now can only cause more harm to us than good. It’s time to come together and pull together for everyone’s sake. I thought this was an Arsenal site not a political one and to be honest no one should be asked to sign a petition that is not about our club. I’m having second thoughts about posting now, I enjoy the people on this site and the banter very much and it’s the best Arsenal site by a merry mile and run beautifully I may add but I come here to get away from the outside world and the worries that that entails to talk about Arsenal and her wonderful manager not the politics.
Oops!
You beat me to it Mandy 🙂
No worries Tom!
Linda
I agree with your comments re N Ireland, it would be better for everyone there to move forward rather than keep going over the past.
There seem to be quite a few Arsenal supporters in NI – good to know that.
Re political comments on Untold – I agree we are better keeping to football, but some political comments are understandable in the present circumstances – and the changes will have some sort of effect on Arsenal – I expect we will get back to “normal” soon – so keep posting – I really enjoy your comments!
One thing I do feel sad about is having friends on both sides of the Brexit campaign, united about Arsenal, but divided by the present political issues.
Big mistake to put that petition in, Tony. Just my opinion obviously and it is your site so you can do what you like, but I disagree with doing it.
My reason for disagreeing is this. On a 72 per cent turnout, which is high for a British election, a clear majority voted to leave the EU. British governments that have gone on to rule for five years have been elected on a smaller turnout and with a lesser majority. Nobody suggested re-running the election. We had to put up with whatever that government decided to do for five years.
I agree with the approach of Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party. He says the decision should be accepted and we should now attempt to heal the divide. The truth is, many people who voted either way would agree that things are not going well in Britain and something needs to be done about it.
I think Johnno made a lot of valid points. Millions of people have been suffering for many years now from the effects of austerity policies that were supposed to right the economy but have done nothing of the sort. Their vote was a cry of anger. The best response is to recognise that and adopt policies to improve people’s lives, not make them worse.
I hope the Labour Party can do this, because the Conservative Party certainly hasn’t. Its anti-Union bill, its terrible Housing and Planning Act, taking away people’s jobs and then cutting their welfare benefits as well, cutting the health service until we have far fewer hospital beds per person than any country in Europe – it is no wonder people are angry.
The only person I heard on TV talk about these real problems during the referendum debate was Jeremy Corbyn. So I hope his words carry weight, not least in his own party and with the Labour MPs.
In an ideal world, the unity and general good humour of the magnificent NI fans in the Euros would bode well for the future there.
But I worry this situation will raise old tensions….ok they may not have gone away, but just hope the powers that be on all sides are all old and wise enough …..and have seen and been through enough to manage the situation.
But take your point Linda, maybe best to move away from politics on here after all the one off that is this turmoil,
Someone mentioned Dyke, and his advice to not jump to conclusions. Isn’t he retiring soon? All he is looking for is “no problems on my shift”. He doesn’t have any advice to offer, nor a leg to stand on (he is a worm).
There are 2 or 3 EU rulings which have had a significant effect on football. One is the Bosman (sp?) ruling. Those rulings go away.
There is supposedly the remains of a British Commonwealth. From my point of view, this seems to be more a supply of rugby players than anything else, but Australia seems to produce a few good footballers. Canada knows how to produce female football players, and I don’t believe Arsenal has ever taken advantage of that.
I’ve a suspicion that if the pound falls 10% relative to the Euro, that the price of players bought by the EPL teams will probably go up 20% (well, actually 21%). I think the difference works both sides in the same direction.
===
Worms
Elsewhere, Menace brought up worms (and not the head of FA and EPL). Worms are good in places where they are meant to be, gardens and possibly lawns. I’ve heard recently that worms are actually making things worse in the Boreal Forest. So, even useful worms and not useful everywhere.
Oceans and fish
The Earth is mostly water, some areas of high population density of humans called towns, cities and megalopoli, and some areas that humans use on a regular basis (like farms). The remainder could probably be called wilderness.
If you go into the wilderness, you are not supposed to be seeing signs that man has been there before. That is why we go into the wilderness. (Note: leave your walkman and cell phone at home, so that you can tell when you are being tracked by a hungry wolf, cougar or similar.) There are places in the Canadian Arctic, where a footprint might last 100 years. And we have these idiots with quads going everywhere, making ruts, and changing surface runoff patterns quite dramatically. And they claim they have the right to use the “wilderness” with their fancy toys. Hey, if you want to walk, pitch a tent to sleep in, paddle a canoe or kayak; feel free to visit the wilderness. If you want to drive your 46 foot long motorhome with a 120 dB generator supplying AC to see wilderness, please just rent the video. You are probably too stupid to avoid the wolf, cougar or what not that by rights should eat you for lunch.
1000+ years ago, there were not enough people on Earth to make a lasting impact on the wilderness. Consequently we have many “industries” which are all about taking things out of the wilderness to sell to city people. When human population was inconsequential, this was not a problem. It is a problem today.
I have heard of a couple of situations now in Canada, where people have figured out how to raise saltwater fish on dry land with no inputs from the ocean and no exhaust/drainage/tailings to the ocean. That is how all ocean fisheries should be run. You want to sell salmon to people? You raise the salmon on dry land, and sell them when they are ready. If you think there is a market for XYZ fish in the ocean, sure you can do a test fishing to get product and see if the market likes it. Then you figure out how to raise that fish on dry land, sell all you want. Japan, if you want to harvest whales (for “scientific” purposes, or anything else) you figure out how to raise whales on dry land.
[ trips, stepping off soapbox ]
Hitler meet R@A an idiot he like you blames the Jews for everything.
What’s next R@A
Samuel @6:51
Thought I should inform you that The Republic of Ireland is most certainly NOT part of the UK.
It is an independent country and has been for over 90 years.
Apart from a period of occupation by Her majesty’s forces lasting a mere 800 years, the nation of Ireland had been it free for millennia.
We have been part of the EU since 1973 and happy to remain so. As the only EU country with a land border to the UK, we are greatly concerned at the decision of last Thursday. Quite obviously the leave voters of England and Wales care or know little of the consequences for their compatriots in Northern Ireland and Scotland.
In comparison to people from other European countries, vast numbers of the UK population are almost totally apolitical, with a huge disconnect between the populace and the political procesd. This, I suspect comes from the bizarre first past the post election procedure that operates there. Try explaining Proportional Representation or a single transferable vote to even a well educated intelligent British person and watch their eyes glaze over in befuddlement / disinterest within seconds.
The vote to leave is seen across the globe as akin to the logic that points some Americans to support Trump and allow terror suspects buy weapons – utterly bizarre.
OT: Euro
The media is screwed. If it isn’t ice hockey, the Canadian media doesn’t even have a single brain cell to draw on. Even with hiring a bunch of ex-England muppets to provide “colour”.
Toronto thinks it is the centre of the universe, and “their” source is sprotsnet (purposely mis-spelled).
Headline:
> Euro roundup: A day to completely forget in France
I’ve seen many wonderful reports about the fans from Northern Ireland and Wales. And yet, these bunch of assholes in Toronto, Canada (they actually want the country to be renamed Toronto), come up with this shit for a headline.
I suppose these mental giants will figure out that Aaron Ramsey plays for Cardiff next, and that he is looking for a transfer to Manchester City. Or since the pound has dropped so far, to Athletico Madrid.
Tony
I have to say that in my opinion this was a mistake of an article, but you’ve at least succeeded in flushing out one or two extreme right nutters, who’s comments can never now be taken seriously.
Mandy @ 1208
Tks for agreeing that the US has done more harm to mankind than doing good by there violent conduct.
Re religion i am surprised you dont believe in religion.It means you dont believe in God and its existence?
At least the UK will now be well rid of the interfering Brussels’ lawmakers.
And coffeemaker manufacturers will now be able to produce machines NOT compelled to automatically switch off after 40 minutes. Grrrr.
See what I mean?
The FA will not do anything to alter the rules that govern football in England,
because the ultimate sanctions lies with Eufa they have as you well know the power to expel teams and countries who do not conform to their rules.
There a huge profits to gained from all aspects of the football industry, so I can not see the vested interests allowing any one to upset the goose that lays the golden egg.
Tom and Gunner joe
Why you think i am joking. I am damn serious.You think i am just blaming the jews for controlling USA? Let me put you one simple question.
Who owns and control the Ferderal Reserve Bank?
Do some research and let me know.
The more I read the more I get the feeling that this was as much as anything a ‘protest vote’.
-A protest against the ‘establishment’.
-A protest against the faceless unelected bureaucrats of Brussels.
-A protest against the current Government.
-A protest against London.
-A protest against big business.
-A protest against the rich.
-A protest against the upper classes.
All very understandable targets. But isn’t it cutting off your nose to spite your face.
No amount of protest voting is going to bring back the traditional industries of the North. Whether we like it or not the industrial landscape of the UK has changed, and it has changed forever.
The industrial landscape of the World has changed forever.
We are, like it or not, a Country built on the service industry.
No amount of ‘protest’ voting is going to change that.
Whether in the EU or not. Whether a United Kingdom or not, the days of coal mining, shipbuilding, the steel industry, are gone.
Bye and large other places around the World do those things, if not better then at least a lot cheaper.
I’m not saying any of this is good or bad, right or wrong, I am just saying it is what it is and this leave vote will not change that.
So if all that is irreversible then what are we hoping to achieve by leaving the EU?
Autonomy right? The right to self Govern?
Great. Now we have that, who is it that is going to Govern us?
The Tories that’s who. The very people who closed down all those industries in the first place.
So how, under any circumstances is giving autonomous power to the likes of Boris Johnson and his ilk going to help the working man, the poor and the disenfranchised people of this Country?
That’s my question.
It is patently obvious when you read through all the comments that passions are running very high.
I admit it is difficult for me to know what it’s like to live in Gateshead, or on Teesside. But I find it insulting when somebody tries to tell me what I think of them.
So no I don’t think: “We are all just poorly educated little Englanders and a bunch of racist bigots aren’t we?” as Johnno suggested yesterday.
But he does seem to think this of me: “Or maybe you are just another wanna be leftie pushing a Neo Liberal agenda who lives in his London bubble”
So who is it stereotyping here then?
It seems Johnno knows as little about me, and the way a lot of my friends and colleagues think, as I do about him.
The truth is like Johnno, I cant help where I was born, and in turn where I live and work. But that doesn’t stop me from caring. And I do care passionately about other working class people.
In conclusion I hope, I really really hope I am wrong and that leaving the EU is going to make things better for Johnno. Better for the old traditional industrial heartlands. Better for the Country as a whole.
But I just cannot for the life of me think how for a single second putting all that power back in the hands of Westminster, the very place that decimated those areas in the first place, is going to help the working man.
I think the wrong decision has been made, and what’s more, for many of the wrong reasons. Sorry but that’s how I see it.
Jambug – it is clear to me that you and Johnno have a lot in common especially that you care most about the working class and what happens to them. So I repeat what I said above. Jeremy Corbyn has put out a call to people to join together in fighting for a better life for people in Britain.
Where I disagree with you is in your fatalistic acceptance of the terrible economic situation that is ruining people’s lives. Why can’t we rebuild British industry? The only reason it has been run down is because some very rich people in Britain make more money in other ways. If we were manufacturing things that benefited people in this country and also gave people jobs, we would all be winners.
Jambug
I don’t know what motivated people to vote the way that they chose to, but I do know that where I live there are lots of elderly white males and they were 95% for leave. Shadow Europe minister Pat Glass who was part of the remain campaign was right to tell her canvassing teams to not bother with older white men “because they are the problem”. I would suggest that she meant racist problem.
My own vote was made purely for reasons of self interest, so I don’t have any axes to grind with either side, but I hope that when the dust settles we don’t find ourselves with Boris Johnson as our PM.
Leon
Why would Boris Johnson be any worse – or indeed any different – than David Cameron? They are old Bullingdon buddies and come from the same rich privileged clique who do not know or care how ordinary people have to live.
What we need is a different kind of leader, one who does know and care.
You choose to select elderly white males as being the backbone of the leave vote. That may be your experience, but it isn’t mine. The people I know who voted leave have observed the disastrous effect the EU has had on people throughout the area, most notably the Greek people, and want no more of it.
Rosicky , the US, like many others has certainly done harm, Vietnam for starters, it has done some good as well, but think many would,agree, it could have done more.
As for God, only my opinion, certainly think there is some force out there, but maybe don’t see it the way conventional religions do ……after all, some force somewhere it all off. But can only respect the many decent people who,do follow a religion.
Pat
I didn’t say Boris was any better or worse than Cameron. But since you mention it I find him appaling, and I’m a Tory voter.
And yes where I live the people are elderly and racist. My town has a well know reputation for it which I’ve experienced myself as recently as Friday.
Pat
Thanks for your comment.
“Why can’t we rebuild British industry?”
Because, as I said, others do it cheaper. Simple.
Just look at what’s happening in South Wales. How much is, or should I say, ‘was’ it going to cost to prop up Tata Steel:
“Sources close to Tata have warned there is a lack of interest in buying its entire UK business, which is losing £1m a day.”
Now we are on our own the subsidy from the EU has gone.
Take it from me it will not, as has been muted, now come from ‘the people’ of Westminster, Johnno seems to be so pleased have got there powers back.
Maybe we can use a fraction of the £350 Million a week we are now supposed to be saving having left the EU?
Oh no, that’s going to build a hospital every week isn’t it? Or is it?
“The official Vote Leave campaign, for instance, claimed the EU was costing the U.K. £350 million a week, “enough to build a brand new, fully staffed … hospital every week.” It continued to make that claim despite being repeatedly admonished by the independent statistics watchdog for misleading voters.”
Farage did the fastest U-turn in history by dismissing that notion out of hand, within just a few hours.
So there’s hope.
Oh sorry, wrong there too, as apparently we’ll need every penny of it simply to prop up the economy.
Yes it would be great if those old traditional industries came back, along with the strong Unions, but honestly, I mean HONESTLY, do you believe they will, even with Corbyn or somebody similar in Westminster?
And here’s another little gem from ‘the people’:
Tory Brexit MEP Daniel Hannan caused uproar when he said this:
“The leave vote will not end freedom of movement because the UK would have to agree to it, to gain access to the single market”
He advocated a Norway style relationship with the EU which allows it continued access to the single market on condition that Norway allows free movement.
So how’s that helping the poor people of Gateshead ?
This isn’t the ‘remain’ side saying these things out of bitterness, it’s the ‘leave’ side.
As I said, it just gets better every passing hour.
I’m sorry if you think I’m being ‘fatalistic’ but that’s MY ‘honest’ take on where we are now.
Leon
Thanks for your comment too.
As an over 50 am I ‘elderly’ ?
I admire your honesty in saying you voted with self interest, which is fine.
At my age, and being quite secure, in or out of the EU is going to make little difference to me.
I voted for the best interest of the future of our Country, and the working man.
I fear greatly for our future.
Tony
We live in a country where democracy means a lot.The people have voted to leave for one reason or another.Petitions wont get you anywhere so accept the will of the people and keep doing what this site is about and that’s debating all things Arsenal.
Mandy
Why stop at vietnam?
Afghanistan.Iraq,Libya and now Syria
All destructed and shred to pieces.
Infact US is the biggest hypocrite in the world.The only user of nuclear weapons to kill humanity.
US shows the world that it support democracy but when there is a revolution in a country it support the military regime like they did in Egypt by toppling the elected government.
Double standards.
Lee: the site is about football news from an Arsenal perspective. Part of being in a democracy is to debate how that democracy works.
Re. Pat. Youve made some fantastic points there and I suspect that I have quite a bit in common with you. Re. Jambug. I wasnt born in Gateshead, I was born and brought up in Avenell Rd. I moved away in 74 but I still have family who live there and I am down there all the time for the football. I dont even think London is an English City anymore to be honest but thats another debate. What I do know is that many Londoners these days have nothing in common with traditional old labour voters in the heartlands. We are proper left wing socialists, you lot down there are liberal globalists who think its trendy to pass themselves off as left wing and champions of the working man. The truth is you have nothing in common with them and the referendum results prove it. I say this as an old Cockney but the people down there are a load of selfish cunts who live in a bubble. You are good at talking to yourselves and convincing eachother that you must be right but you would get a nasty shock if you ventured outside the bubble. Re. Leon. Are you for real? Genuine question. “Shadow minister Pat Glass who was part of the remain campaign was right to tell her canvassing teams to not bother with older WHITE men “because they are part of the problem” I would suggest racist problem” Words almost fail me, I think youve just proved my point about the Labour Party. Remarkable to think that Pat Glass would issue such a racist statement and even more remarkable that you would swallow it. Can you imagine an MP talking about Black or Asian people in the same way. There would be hell on and rightly so. No wonder the Labour Party are losing their core support.
Pat
How does…..
“The people I know who voted leave have observed the disastrous effect the EU has had on people throughout the area, most notably the Greek people, and want no more of it”.
…..sit with what your Tory Brexit MEP said yesterday?
Tory Brexit MEP Daniel Hannan caused uproar when he said this:
“The leave vote will not end freedom of movement because the UK would have to agree to it, to gain access to the single market”
He advocated a Norway style relationship with the EU which allows it continued access to the single market on condition that Norway allows free movement.
I’m sorry you’ve been duped.
Leaving the EU will NOT end, social or political displacement.
Leaving the EU will NOT end migration or immigration.
Leaving the EU will NOT mean we can just draw up the metaphorical drawbridge and pretend all the problems of the World will go away.
I tell you what I find a bit disconcerting:
On the one hand it is claimed that a major force behind the ‘leave’ vote was the way the poor and the vulnerable feel they have been abandoned by those that are better off.
But on the other hand, it is these very same ‘abandoned’ people that want to abandon the ‘poor and Vulnerable’ peoples of Europe, or at least leave them for somebody else to deal with.
Sad. Yes we had problems with being in the EU that need dealing with, but this was not the way.
@Johnno..
You’re confused pal.
Fascists are what Johnson and Gove are – go and look up Fascism to see what it means.
Also, the “Leave” supporters haven’t read the history of the current petition. It was started by a “Leave” campaigner before the vote, fearing that the “Remain” camp would win.
So in reality, the “Leave” camp blaming the “Remain” group for a sour grape reaction is a lie – just like the rest of their campaign.
Johnno
Yesterday you closed with:
“Anyway, apologies if I’ve come across aggressive but I truly believe that the petition is an insult to democracy. Anyway, I`m outta here. Up The Arse”.
Today you say:
“I say this as an old Cockney but the people down there are a load of selfish cunts who live in a bubble”.
Seems, much like the leaders of your Brexit campaign, you didn’t mean a word of it.
Take advice from a selfish old Cockney and calm down, because frankly you’re losing it.
Johnno
I certainly am for real. I also come from Arsenal territory ( Drayton Park) am an elderly white male and detest London., but not Londoners. That Pat Glass statement (right or wrong) certainly applies where I live in the West Country. Why waste good campaign time trying to dissuade them? Would you believe that my neighbour actually thinks that all immigrants are now going to be repatriated?
Re. Norm. I know exactly what Fascism is and people trying to ride roughshod over the democratic will of the people are a perfect example. Re. Jambug. I`m perfectly calm my old son, I do think that people in London live in a bubble and I believe they only think of themselves. How else should I describe them, you even admit you are selfish yourself. As for the supposed lies of the Brexit campaign, hahaha, I shouldnt really laugh should I. Afterall we will soon be headed for WW3 and global financial armageddon.
Johnno
“you even admit you are selfish yourself.”
Are you serious?
I posted this earlier. Maybe in your ‘red mist’ you missed it.
Jambug
June 26, 2016 at 11:05 am
“At my age, and being quite secure, in or out of the EU is going to make little difference to me.
I voted for the best interest of the future of our Country, and the working man.
I fear greatly for our future.”
How is that being selfish?
If you’re refering to this:
“Take advice from a selfish old Cockney and calm down, because frankly you’re losing it.”
Surely you realised this was a sarcastic response to your rather insulting statement that:
“….the people down there (London) are a load of selfish cunts who live in a bubble”
Maybe you didn’t, in which case, as I suggested, you are losing it.
Jambug
I don’t think you’re quite an “oldie” yet, but heading that way.
Leon
Take it from me, when I have to get up at 3 or 4 am in the middle of January, I feel very much like an ‘Oldie’ !!
What is it with these pundits and there obsessional hatred of the ‘Zonal System’?
Draxlers just scored for the Germans, having been left unmarked in the 6 yard box. Fine, not good. I appreciate that.
But the second it happens we get “It’s that Zonal system” from Dowie.
No it’s not. It’s a player not doing his job.
My point is, we get just as many goals scored against teams set up ‘Man to man’ but when we do, we NEVER seem to get comments such as ‘It’s that Man to Man system’.
Pundits just seem obsessed with highlighting any goal scored against a Zonal defence.
Both are only as good or as bad as the team adopting them, but as I say Pundits seem to have this thing about Zonal.
Hi Johnno
I agree with your comments too! But just to reassure you – the class divide is alive and well and living in London too! Working class jobs and working class homes are rapidly going.
Light industry, secure council jobs, and of course the docks, have all gone. The developers are after the council housing estates and the few industrial estates that have survived and want to turf everybody out, demolish everything and replace it with expensive flats sold as an investment, and speculative office blocks. It’s already happening.
I suppose there are more jobs like retail down here but the security, wages and working conditions are poor. A lot of young people are affected and because of the cost of housing, they are stuck in the family home indefinitely as well.
Hard times all round wherever you live! If you’re working class, that is.