CL Arsenal – PSG 2-2

By Walter Broeckx

A number of changes compared to the team that started at Manchester United last weekend.

In goal we have our CL keeper Ospina as expected. Jenkinson stayed at right back but at left back we had Kieran Gibbs in the place of Monreal.

In midfield we had the pairing of Ramsey and Coquelin so Elneny dropping to the bench.  Iwobi came in the team and Walcott also dropped to the bench.

And up front we had Olivier Giroud so Alexis probably on the flank today but don’t know which flank now before the kickoff.

Team at the start: Ospina, Jenkinson, Mustafi, Koscielny, Gibbs, Coquelin, Ramsey,Alexis, Ozil, Iwobi, Giroud

On the beach: Cech, Gabriel, Monreal, Elneny, Xhaka, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott.

Two misplaced passes by Kos and Coquelin early on but no real danger coming from it. A cross from Jenkinson goes over Giroud and PSG also with a cross but nobody at the end of it. Both teams not dangerous in the opening 12 minutes. Then the first foul is called in a up to then very clean match. Iwobi with a dangerous looking run but he didn’t go for the shot and finally lost the ball. 0-0 after 15 minutes.

Gibbs stopping a PSG effort short before the goal line after a corner. Matuide escapes on the left and his cross is bundled over the goal line for PSG. 0-1 after 18 minutes. Arsenal needing some time to recover from that blow and not at their best for the moment. Ramsey going down in the penalty area but the ref didn’t see a foul. It looked a close call as it was unclear if the defender first got Ramsey and only then the ball. Arsenal still 0-1 behind after 30 minutes.

Marquinhos goes in the book for chopping down Alexis who wanted to start a counter after a PSG corner. Coquelin also goes in the book for what no PL referee would call a foul. Özil plays the Alexis in some space but his cross is terrible. Too many passes not reaching an Arsenal team mate so far.  Appeals for a handball but the ref rightly waved it away as the arm was in front of his body. And another cross goes terribly wide. Giroud wins back the ball, to Özil who gives it to Alexis who goes down and the ref points to the spot. Giroud behind the ball….. and he puts it away. GOAL!!!! 1-1             drze 45 minutes. Giroud sending the keeper the wrong way. Cavani being hot tempered after the penalty decision and some pushing and shoving with Ramsey before the penalty was taken.

To be honest I couldn’t see if Alexis was caught or not. Streams you know… but it was right in front of the 5th official so he might have seen something. The PSG player who committed the foul also not really reacting or protesting. So probably right to give the penalty. So after a bad first half we go in with a 1-1 score and that was more than hoped for based on our performance in the first 45 minutes. Meanwhile finding out that winning the group might see us face Bayern Munich who unless Atletico really screws up alot will finish second in there group….

Arsenal seemingly trying to press a bit higher up the pitch in the second half but not really much happening in front of either goal in the opening 5 minutes of the second half. Koscielny goes in the book after losing the ball in a dangerous position, correct decision. That seemed to be one of the problems too much running with the ball and not enough passing this evening. The free kick hits the cross bar with Ospina looking on. He looked sure it wouldn’t go in…. Verrati also goes in the book as he stops Alexis on a counter. Jenkinson with a cross that ends up in the feet of Giroud but his shot is blocked. Arsenal with some corners and some pressure just before the hour mark. Jenkinson with a cross the ball is deflected to Ramsey who has a shot that is kicked out by a defender…against another defender and goes over the line. GOAL!!!!! 2-1 after 60 minutes. Verrati the unlucky player to score the own goal.

Ramsey again involved a bit later but this time refuse to help Arsenal and they can clear. Cavani with a shot from distance but very far off target. Cavani then looking for a penalty but he just threw himself to the floor to obvious and Ospina can pick up the ball. PSG now recovered from the own goal and pressing forward now. The assistant then waiting an awful long time before raising his flag when Cavani was offside. Coquelin meanwhile not really daring to challenge PSG players in fear of getting a second yellow card. Those German refs can be strict at times.

PSG really pressing forward and Arsenal having trouble of getting out with the ball. Jenkinson with a good defensive interception on a cross. Arsenal then pressing high and winning the ball but Ramsey just can’t get on the end of Alexis’ cross. 2-1 to Arsenal after 75 minutes.

Ospina bravely first on the ball after a low cross in front of Cavani. PSG get a corner and Lucas heads it in goal totally unmarked and with Iwobi touching the ball so Ospina couldn’t catch it. That was his last contribution as Xhaka replaced the young Ivorian player after that. Ramsey moving forward Xhaka dropping deeper. Cavani escpade from deep in the Arsenal half but Ospina catched his attempted lob. Ramsey with a shot that went wide at the other end.

After 79 minutes Coquelin came off and Walcott came on. And a minute later The Ox came on for Jenkinson. Cavani headed wide after a promising cross. Ospina then having to head the ball out of his penalty area.

Both teams going for the winning goal when they have the ball. Xhaka picking the wrong long ball when Arsenal could counter and the chance goes begging.

Again not the best performance from Arsenal but again we kept ourselves alive somehow. So who will win the group will be decided in the last match in Bazel and Paris.



69 Replies to “CL Arsenal – PSG 2-2”

  1. Actually, the winner of the group will be decided in Paris. If PSG win, we can win 250:0 in Switzerland and they will still top the group. Away goals rule really doesn’t like us.

    Truth to be told, PSG have been much better side over two legs. The fact we haven’t lost neither game proves that we have resiliency that we hadn’t had in some previous seasons but the lack of created chances suggests that we have some way to the very top.

    On the positive side – Giroud. He really gave a battling performance and earned our first goal by robbing Krychowiak.

  2. Leon, I’m watching most matches on a stream and those are not really famous for their high quality. He may have been touched or not. I couldn’t see it. Mmmm I sound like Wenger. 🙂

  3. Josif
    That’s one way of putting it. Another might be that Arsenal were poor through out the game and especially in the first half where we didn’t have a single shot on goal save the penalty.

    Outshot 14 to 5 , with Cavani missing out on another hat trick just like he did in Paris.

    Arsenal players looked at times as if they barely know each other.
    Jenks offers next to nothing going forward ,which I suppose is ok since he’s just a second stringer on modest salary who’s happy to fill in when called up on.

    Iwobi was very poor, especially in first half where he turned the ball over four times in a row.
    How did he manage to stay on the pitch till minute 77 is anyone’s guess.
    No surprise he gave away what probably will be the second worst own goal by an Arsenal player since Diaby’ s header in the United game at OT.

    When watching PSG there’s a clear idea of what they are trying to do with their movement and passing. Unfortunately the same can’t be said about Arsenal at this moment.

    Using euphemism like “playing with hand brake on” or being a bit nervous, or tired ,begin to sound like a bunch of excuses right now.

    The only positive about this Arsenal effort might be that first place in the group might not provide any clear advantage in the draw.

  4. Of course he was caught. Not the slightest doubt. If there were ny doubt, you can be relied upon to give it to our opponents every time.

  5. Walter
    If you’re watching most matches on poor quality streams, how can anybody take your reviews seriously? It’s no more than guese work really isn’t it?

  6. Leon…..there are three people contributing to these reviews and specifically the referee assessments (Walter,Usama and Bulldog Drummond) and they all don’t have poor streams. Seeing as how you are such an expert in reviewing matches, why don’t you contribute a review here instead of dissing Walter and others who work very hard to provide some information to those of us who couldn’t see the match at all? Wait….it means you actually have to do something constructive and not just whine about whatever you fancy is at fault with UA!

  7. Leon, it is free for everyone to take this serious or not. To be honest I will not be losing sleep if someone doesn’t take it serious.

  8. The reviews are based on more solid videos by the way. I missed the word review in your post and thought you was speaking about my match reports.

  9. Walter, I enjoyed your review even if others have gone out of their way to find fault.

    It was not the result we hoped for, but we did play some good football at times – not as consistently as we would like, but we kept at it and as Josif has indicated we were resilient.

  10. omgarsenal

    You say you were a referee. So why didn’t you see that Sanchez deliberately hung his leg out in the way that very clever forwards do. It was a dive. Oh, wait no, you didn’t see it did you?
    By his own admission Walter was watching a poor stream and if the two other people who have not shown up yet differ, then I’ll defer to them when and if.
    If you’re relying on reports on matches that you are unable to see then you are very trusting of seriously biased opinions and are in no position to criticise opinion of people who actually watched the game in real time..
    And as for your smug suggestion of submitting reports myself, why would I? So that I can be like you?
    Yeah, right!

  11. By the way, I’m not criticising Sanchez. I’m glad that at last we have a diver who gets away with it.
    It’s about time!

  12. Just seen on the highlights, Roy Keane…of all people reckons Alexis did get some contact, but pictures looked inconclusive. Maybe it was a dive, maybe it was a pen, or perhaps Alexis has learned from what Tottenham have been getting away with on their recent grey area penalties.
    Too far away from where I was sitting for me to see if it was or wasn’t.
    Not at our best, like recent games, but stubbornly refuse to lose.
    Think I know who this team are missing, and yes I am biased, he is my favourite player. But they have to live with and adapt to that.
    But let’s give some credit to PSG, they generally closed down well, some great defenders, and some superb attacking players. A very good team…..who our boys have refused to lose to over two games.
    The only real question from this evening… it Barca or Bayern next round?

  13. Leon
    Some of us watched the game in pretty good conditions. And also can watch replays. In my opinion, Sanchez didn’t hung his leg deliberately at all, but was hooked by krychowiak’s foot. But when it come to supporting the team it seems that you prefer looking to the bad sides of things. We are not blind, and I agree with you that the boys didn’t play well tonight. Is that a reason to splash criticism about everything? COYG!
    Btw, krychowiak himself says he made the foul!
    Hope you can read french. If needed I can translate the article in the french sport paper, l’Equipe. Anyway, the picture is clear enough!

  14. Diving is diving, and it’s wrong, regardless what shirt you’re wearing.
    It didn’t seem to me that Alexis was fouled and I was watching in HD
    But not conclusive. If Harry Kane did it in a NLD I’d be livid.
    Is Alexis a cheat? Don’t think so for a second, he’s class, regardless what shirt he would be wearing. Would any PSG player have done the same? I suspect so.
    Would I prefer if he had stood up and we had lost 1-2 but kept the moral high ground? Not on your life.
    Is football a funny old game? Yep.
    Is there anything as weird as folk? Nope.
    Roll on Sunday.

  15. Tom, whatever the PSG idea of the game, they couldn’t beat us in two games
    agree on Iwobi though, though the own goal was a freak accident

  16. Leon, Sanchez didn’t “hang out his leg” (whatever that even means?)
    his leg was in natural position and Krychowiak tripped it, as simple as that

  17. OlegYch
    They didn’t have to , did they.
    Unless you suppose the team Arsenal trashed 6:0 is going to beat them at Parc des Princes on match day 6.

  18. Translated Krychowiak said…
    “I made a mistake that cost us the goal.
    I am responsible, I assume 100% … what does not kill makes us stronger”
    Sounds as though he agreed it was a penalty. The French media appear to have no complaints
    It is no surprise that the only one questioning the penalty appears to be Leon.

  19. Freak accidents usually happen when you’re not at your best.

    Re penalty; no dive. Sanchez is turning and his left leg is off the ground while his standing leg is being swiped gently from underneath him.

  20. The moaners have come out from their anti arsenal bunkers and are in full flow. My word, the state of these lot.

    As for the penalty for Arsenal it was mentioned as correct by the

    1. Onfield refs
    2. Former world cup ref Jamal Shareef on Bein Sports Arabic.
    3. By every one at Bein Sports France, with the likes of Pires, Desailly, Ludovic Giuly (which is owned by the group that owns PSG)
    4. Lastly as mentioned above by Alex, even the player that committed the late sliding tackle on Sanchez said that it was a foul.

    As for my personal thought… yes it was a correct penalty for the following reasons.

    1. krychowiak came sliding in with both feet even before Sanchez turned.
    2. Just as Sanchez turned, krychowiak completely missed the ball.
    3. And made a lifting contact with his right foot on Sanchez’s feet at momentum
    4. And when you attempt such a tackle, miss the ball and make contact at momentum its always a foul.
    5. Whether Sanchez genuinly fell down or dived after the foul contact makes no difference, because the foul was already made.

    Its just like what happened with that stupid c**t Cavani and Ramsey. Cavani clearly made a punch/jab/thrush of arm in the face of Ramsey, and you could clearly see Ramsey’s jaw moving after the punch. The foul contact was made, whether Ramsey goes down, dives or not doesn’t matter. What matters is for the ref to make the correct decison

    I will try to post a similar penalty of Raheem Sterling tomorrow.

  21. Sounds like many sources saying that was a penalty, and a possible retrospective suspension for cavani? Certainly not a punch worthy of Marciano but did seem to catch Ramsey, maybe a bit soft , Ramsey and Wenger seemed to play it down ,but our players have seen red for a lot less at times.
    Many punters saying we should have lost, psg were good, but I think we deserved a draw for our sheer reslilance in avoiding defeat when not at our best, a feature of this month…..of months. John cross and wrighty really laying in…..what’s new….
    Some madly passionate fans PSG have….a guy in a white shirt with his back to the game seemed to be conducting them throughout the game

  22. Usama
    Not sure if it’s the same incident or a different one but Ramsey was involved in a minor tiff in the second half where a PSG player ( possibly Cavani) stupidly flicked out his arm at Ramsey. There was a break in play at the time. The brief contact was with Aaron’s chest/shoulder area but he grabbed his face and certainly thought about making a big deal out of it. Then didn’t, to his credit perhaps. Silly kind of nonsense that we decent people should be above.
    Noting his usual character to be so dumb but didn’t help himself tonight on that occasion.

  23. Sanchez leg was stretched out and clipped penalty n questions needed to ask unlike harry Kane and to an extent Varady plants a leg out for the defender to take out and trips over his lead leg to make it look like their was contact that’s a dive Leon so why no outcry for hurry crane and Tottenham dives they are also tall the same

  24. Dead on penalty….anyday….

    Now therz more proof for it.

    Also… remember Rambo wad butt blocked in the box, not given……

  25. Me – Win – WOO HOO , HOO !
    – Draw – Well done the lads !
    – Lose – Sigh .

    them – Win – Whine .
    – Draw -Moan .
    – Lose – Whine , moan , bitch , curse , splutter , choke !

    But then not everybody is me !
    I just love that this team just refuses to lie down and get beat !

  26. I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding here. My two comments to Walter were valid on the basis that his reviews are based on flawed technology. Poor streams. Other people saw the game on decent quality broadcast. Great! That does not alter my opinion on Walter’s report one bit.
    I’m not comparing Sanchez with Harry Kane or any other divers (as suggested ) but am judging him on this one incident. He could quite easily have stayed upright, but chose to go down. To me that’s a dive, but as I say it’s good to have one of our own.

  27. Alex Dieuzeide

    I’ve just noticed your 11.53 post.
    Sorry, but I have not commented on the teams’ performance, but since you’ve brought it up: I thought we were quite a lot better than against Man U, but missing key players who would have lifted us.
    But to draw with a disputed penalty & comedy own goal…………

  28. Leon, please do us a favour and read the translation as given by Mick Hazel at 12:09 AM. Then have a look at the incident and see that Sanchez has his left foot in the air when he is clipped. So he has no other purchase on the ground other than the foot that is clipped. Surely even you can understand what happens when 1 of your feet is off the ground and the other is taken out by a sliding tackle. So please keep your ‘diver’ analogy for those that deserve them and be happy for the draw that could have been worse…. 🙂

  29. Well, the main thing is that we are in the round of 16, whilst other, smaller clubs, wallow in the Thursday League 🙂

    As usual, since the results came in last night, Sky are creaming themselves over Abu Dhabi United “qualifying” whilst we don’t get a mention. They’re at it again on their web site, again, giving all the praise to Citeh, whilst somebody called Nick Wright, gives Arsenal a right caning for their qualification.

    Apparently, we are in some sort of slump – despite going 18 games unbeaten, but he is at pains to point out that we have drawn our last 3 games, having a total of FOUR shots on target. What he failed to mention was those four shots have resulted in FOUR goals.

    However, we do need to sort the midfield out PDQ, and perhaps we are seeing the down side of letting Jack go out on loan.

  30. Here’s to lying pieces of shit – a tribute of sorts !

    What’s the difference between Donald Trump ,’ them’ ,and a sewage plant? Nothing they’re all full of shit!.

    What does Donald Trump and a pornstar have in common? They are both experts at switching positions in front of a camera.

    If Donald Trump had a sense of humor, he would die laughing after looking in the mirror.

    Fear is the Path to the dark side. Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, and Hate leads to the Republican Nomination.

    What is Donald Trump “really” trying to do? Make America Hate Again.

    Donald Trump loves the “poorly educated” so much, that when he’s president there will be more of them than ever.

  31. Mandy Dodd
    “John cross and wrighty really laying in…..what’s new….”
    Followed by Merson on the radio this morning who can always be relied upon to give a negative slant on things.
    Next up will be G Graham or F Mclintock I expect to heap more shit on the pile.
    And we have Leon on here who can always be relied upon to do the same.

  32. Hope Iwobi will put this disappointment behind him and look to come back strong…

    Superb display by Rambo….

  33. MickHazel

    So everybody’s wrong other than the Untold Arsenal commenters. That’s about par.
    Just how myopic can you get?
    You usually talk good sense, but rarely stray outside the party line.
    What are you afraid of? Some monosyllabic telling you to go on LG?

  34. Let’s rejoice in having secured our route to the next round, with 2 matches to go and let’s look forward positively to our annual date with Barcelona.

  35. What is missing is a real n°8-n°10 combo. Cazorla was playing most with Mesut and we know the results we had. Check the stats on the official site: Cazorla Özil was always our most efficient pair exchanging the most passes. Now Ramsey prefers passing to the defenders and ignore Özil.

  36. Disappointing performance but as many said the positives are that despite playing badly we are getting the draws. Not ideal and if we are ever going to mount a serious title challenge then we’ll really need to start games with intensity (like Liverpool).

    I think the loss of Cazorla and possibly Bellerin is really coming into play. And with Caz no certain to return anytime soon it makes it scary to see why our attack can’t muster more than one shot at goal.

  37. I don’t know what the fuss is all about. It was a hard game against another money-bag club. We keep the unbeaten run going and qualify for the next round. It may prove a blessing as a few big clubs are finishing second in their group (Real Mad & Bayern to start with).

    The penalty was awarded, and looked plausible. Let it go.

    We need Cazorla back to start dominating games again.

  38. Leon
    You are absolutely right in that I rarely stray outside the party line.
    That is because I find myself in agreement with the party line pretty much most of the time. That is why I come to Untold.
    If you disagree with the party line, which frequently seems to be the case why do you bother coming here? All you achieve is to ruffle the feathers of people such as myself. What’s the point, do you enjoy irritating people?

  39. Cavani facing retrospective sanctions over the slap on Ramsey seems like a good idea, although there’s nothing conclusive about how it all started. On the other hand Coquelin elbowing Thiago Motta in the face (29 mins) was well caught on live coverage. Judging by our reviewers zero tolerance on such things it should have been a straight red card.

    The latter incident has gone completely unnoticed here. And for the record I personally don’t think every raised elbow merits a sending-off. Only suggesting that had it been our player on the receiving end then who knows…

  40. Dieter,

    Thanks a lot for your high intellect, wisdom, and keen eye.

    And if you use even a tiny bit of that high intellect, wisdom and keen eye of yours, you will see that this is a match report written within minutes of the match finishing, where readers come and discuss different things about the match. And not a ref review report where each decision is reviewed and reported.

  41. Guys and ladies, we simply have not been playing well for quite a long time. I mention games against the Spuds, against Manure, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, etc.
    We can however celebrate that we have not lost any of these games (although we probably should have lost).
    True champions win or draw games even when they don’t play well. So maybe we are indeed champions-in-the-making.

    I however like watching the normal beautiful Arsenal football (and not the poor stuff we are getting these days).

    The Arsenal I like is the attacking Arsenal, the Arsenal with fluidity, the Arsenal that shoots and scores.
    I’m not happy with the current Arsenal who has just one shot at goal in an entire match. One shot against Manure at Cold Trafford. One shot at the Emirates against PSG.

    Maybe as genuine supporters of Arsenal we should be asking why we only had one truly great game this season (when we walloped Chelsea). As genuine fans we should try to suggest what could be the problem. I am sure Arsenal officials read Untold Arsenal and our points of view will be heard (and possibly given consideration).

    As for me I think this Arsenal squad is very, very good. All we need is a top class central striker and then we will be excellent. Sanchez is a beautifully talented footballer who can play as a winger, as a striker or even as a central midfielder. In any of these positions he can put in a good shift. Alexis Sanchez is however not a specialist striker. Arsenal needs a brilliant central striker who scores half-chances and who doesn’t waste good chances.

    So far in November, we have not lost but we also haven’t won any games. We have had draws in all our games. The average points we have had per game is 1. So even if we beat Bournemouth on Sunday, our average points per game in November will be less than 1.4 points. This average points per game is lower than in other months. November is still proving a bad month for Arsenal.

    At least November is now ending. Let’s hope the real Arsenal performances will return in December.

  42. You’re welcone, Usama. And so many thanks for replying in such a “civilized” manner.

    As far as I know I never criticized Walter’s match report, which I think was fair and impartial. But I’ve been paying close attention to your excellently engineered matchweek reviews and I’ve witnessed several incidents where raised arms merit a straight red. In your opinion, that is.

    Sorry for being wise and intellect. I promise to try and adopt your sophisticated behaviour in the future. If my “state” only allows it.

  43. MickHazel

    While I don’t deliberately set out ruffle feathers, I agree that it does happen quite regularly as an artifact of my challenges against some of the misinformation I read here.
    Where others might disregard the BS I will challenge it and this is certainly due my trade union background.
    Also I don’t see the point of pussying around when we play poorly as we did eg last weekend against United. I seemed to upset a few people with some quite mild criticism of the team on that day.
    I can’t say that I have any sympathy for some of the more precious types here, but will attempt not do any more feather ruffling than necessary from now on.
    I’ll probably get banned now anyway.

  44. Another game, another round of the usuals.

    I do not expect fast-paced fluidity, the space around players suddenly opening because of someone’s skill and someone else’s positional sense, when we are missing Santi and Hector Bellerin. Missing one imposes a burden, missing both means a different team playing a different way, with a different idea of the time and momentum of the game.

    I loved Rosicky because he could transform the tempo of the game with one movement. Santi can do that. Bellerin does something that opens all possibilities for the team – he comes inside the line, plays in the old inside-right position, links with Ozil to his left, and suddenly, hey presto, Ozil can go right or left.

    We are very obdurate. We apply pressure. Either we eased off too early at 2-1 or PSG are a very good team with a developed sense of their own positional play and the certain knowledge of what each player can do. Their play has very clean lines. Nothing ramshackle in their game.

    Getting two draws, not allowing ourselves to get beaten, the team gets built out of its knowledge of itself. What this team is showing is that we can even consider a team getting built. Roll on Sunday.

  45. Not sure why the debate about the Sanchez penalty? The offending player’s reaction said it all, he knew he made contact with Alexis foot and he didn’t react when the ref gave the penalty. So it’s wrong to say Alexis dived. However, Cavani dived to seek a penalty later on in the match which the ref waved away.

  46. Leon writes,

    ”But to draw with a disputed penalty & comedy own goal…………”

    I’m another old old union guy and as far as I can tell, the guy who gave the penalty away has no problem with the penalty awarded, and that comedy goal, as you call it, had the longest lead-in for a joke that I can remember, several minutes of pressure, the lads going for every ball at speed and with intent, defenders being run one way and the other, the ball whiped around at speed, so when the punchline hits it hits because the defenders had lost control.

    The ball was moving far faster than their ability to predict where the ball was going to. They could no longer tell the future of a moving ball. That’s called applying pressure. The goal followed as a consequence.

    I take my hat off to the lads for applying that pressure to score that goal. Twice in two games they have played with deliberate intent and scored.

  47. Sorry, but I think Rambo is the problem. He just faces the wrong way and goes backwards as a first option. Maybe he’s a square peg n all that, but I think we need somebody who suits Ozil because he is our creator. If people continuously bypass him, he may as well just clear off to a club where his unique talents will be appreciated.

    We need cover for Santi anyway, and either Isco or Icardi would do wonders for Mesut’s game, I’m sure.

  48. It looked to me like Sanchez did exactly what Son did on the weekend, uncannily similar in fact. Defender slides in, attacker extends leg unnaturally to create contact.

    Someone produced a still photo showing contact, but you’d get that with Son,too, or with Vardy last year. Maybe if you got the right angle you could even make it look like Campbell took out Rooney that time

    I was fuming with Son on the weekend and disgusted with the officials for buying it, and with the fact of life that players do these things. Ours almost never do, others do it constantly; they gain, we lose. So…that puts me in an awkward spot, a very awkward spot.

    I still have my conviction that Spurs and other teams are fully-feldged pen-hunters, and almost certainly receive some coaching and advice about these arts, while we are not and do not; and I still have the age old line about others doing it, all the time, to huge advantage, so why shouldn’t we, just once, do the same.

    But i also have the fact I am guilty of some hypocrisy, and the belief that can never be eradicated from a football fan. With Son I was furious, here I could not be upset about us gaining an advantage through dishonesty or just plain…ach…cheating.

    Interestingly, Webb actually said words to the effect of ‘yeah, Alexis could have put his leg elsewhere/ chose to put his leg where he did, but that’s ok : pen’.

    For me, that applies if someone when someone is going to hit your leg where it stands, but not when you move your leg to create the contact, which is what I’m 99% sure Alexis did.

    Anyway, that’s some insight into how refs apparently see it and suggests going to ground is now extremely dangerous- if refs actually think, even after reflection, it’s justifiable for the attacker to take advantage of a slide/lunge and create contact from there.

    We won’t get them in the prem when it matters, anyway, but it’s depressing in terms of what others will get.

  49. Zedsaunt

    The pub I was watching the game in cracked up when that goal went in
    Pure comedy gold.

  50. Rich

    Another one like that against us was Swansea a few seasons ago Dyer (Dwyer?).
    It’s so difficult for the defender to avoid as happened last night. Sanchez is smart, he knew exactly what he was doing and I’m glad to see it work for us.
    Another tactic that gets penalty results is the more industrial one employed by Dembele against us. He just ran full pelt into our area and was obviously going to be brought down by any defender that attempted to tackle him.

  51. Iwobi’s misfortune was at 77 minutes, Jenkinson was not substituted until 81 minutes.

    I am going to guess, that Iwobi was in the wrong place. Whether he placed himself at farpost or someone directed him there, Iwobi does not know how to play farpost. Ospina was in the right place, but was probably surprised to find Iwobi 2 yards off the post when he went to play the header.

    I had the volume down, but the TV people probably aren’t trying to pick up in the box noise in that situation. I would have expected Ospina to be calling for the ball, as he was in position to save it.

    With Iwobi off the post, Ospina probably should have moved his hands towards Iwobi’s head, so as to be closer to a place of possible deflection. Iwobi not being in the correct place (on the post), he should be attempting to close down Lucas, not frozen to the spot he was standing in. That would have given Lucas much less to aim at. Or to duck, and let Ospina have it (if he called for it). Or maybe, Iwobi should have been backing up to the post, on the notice that the ball was going farpost.

    I will guess that goal is due to not enough practice, in any event.

  52. Leon

    Vaguely remember being miffed at a Swansea pen, think it was Dyer.

    Musa tried similar, just while running, against leicester this year. More often than not they’d get that but thankfully not that day.

    The other tactic, charging at pace, turning the ball slightly and crashing into opposition player is one Hazard perfected the year they won the title.

    It’s everywhere. Another variant is coming in blindside as a player is going for ball and making contact with your leg on his but trying to make it look the opposite. That little shit herrera did a particularly blatant one a few weeks back (against City in cup I think). They scored anyway but I think he’d have probably won his pen otherwise.

    Everywhere. We lose out massively by not getting them ourselves. On reflection I really don’t mind at all us getting one yesterday.

    Times will change when Wenger goes. It’s a certainty the next man will be at least somewhat more cynical. I’ll find out then how much of my anger and disgust at diving and the rest is honourable or whether I slide into thinking, ‘if every other fucker does it, why should we lose out?’

    I can imagine myself experiencing regret that the game’s the way it is, but feeling less aggrieved overall. Who knows. Maybe I’m a bit better than that but we’ll all find out in the future.

    I doubt there’s another top level manager in the world who doesn’t feel the need to tell his players that you have to go down when there’s contact in order to get what you deserve… then go on from there until they are guiding them to create contact, perhaps with some bullshit justification, easily swallowed by players as it serves their interest, that it is noble as it is for the team, they’d do it to you,etc, etc. I strongly believe Wenger doesn’t do that.

    It’s part of the reason why another huge success- the league- or, the ultimate success- champ league- would feel so fucking good and why I want it so bad : a clean team doing it in this cesspool!

    But…I don’t know if I could hack a lifetime of playing at that disadvantage, denied furiously by all other parties and plenty of our own party. Nope.

    Don’t want to become Chelsea, Spurs, Utd, Leicester, Real, Barca dirty but if you can find yourself accepting and justifying it on the one occasion you probably can if it starts happening regularly.

  53. Could it be sheer coincidence that our seeming dip in form has coincided with the return of Ramsey to the starting line up? I think we are not playing to the strength of the team. Ramsey, no doubt is a very good player as seen at Euro 2016 while playing for Wales but he struggles to adapt his game when he plays for Arsenal. It is no secret that his best position is that occupied by Ozil. Wenger insisting on playing him out of position is actually partly responsible for what we are experiencing.

    Ramsey is not one that can sit and dictate things from the back of the midfield as Carzola does, he likes to get into the thick of the action, mostly resulting into positional indiscipline. We are yet to get a clean sheet since he returned as he does not provide additional screening for the defence and would rather shoot himself than thread a pass. Once the ball is turned over by the opposition, our defence is under immediate pressure. That is one of the reasons his assists figure is low. If he can adapt his game to the team and remain in the background, Wenger would have unearthed another gem like he did Coquelin. The team is suffering because there is no player filling up the gap created by Carzola’s absence.

    Xhaka – Coquelin partnership might be worth considering at this time. Xhaka needs more game time to grow into the side. He may not be as creative as Carzola and Ramsey right now, but he is not too far behind.

  54. @Gord

    When PSG got the corner for 2:2, I was thinking how it could be a dangerous corner as Ben Arfa would do something different to prior takers which could unsettle our defence. It was his first corner of the game and, sadly, it really was something else.

    Iwobi doesn’t have natural defensive instinct, that was the main reason for Nacho’s struggling this season. Still, the kid is a massive talent who needs support and it was nice to see that his team-mate on the bench immediately tried to comfort him. He missed a good chance to score our second goal in Paris as well but a goal or two in the right net should restore his confidence.

  55. As long Leon is posting here Rupert will not be posting as well. Fact. It just won’t happen, at least not at the same time. Make of that what you will.

  56. Don’t know why Iwobi is getting slaughtered, it could have happened to anyone. IMO Jenkinson was probably more at fault for the goal than him. But I’m not in the blaming game; win as a team, lose as a team.

    I see someone at talkshite is really working hard to try and destroy the young man’s confidence. They’re going to be disappointed coz Iwobi is too strong to let something like that weigh him down. They can try someone else.

  57. Leon dont be winding the foreign brigade of Arsenal supporters up.You know that on here you have to toe the party line and agree with Tony and Walters blogs or you will be banned.You either have to blame the referees,pundits and opposition players when we play poorly but dont blame the players and most CERTAINLY dont blame the manager.We havent won the league for well over a decade and have never won the champions league but you must never criticise Arsene wenger .I bet if you did a poll on here i bet 99% have never stood foot in england never mind been to the emirates.

  58. @ Lizzy – Why is it that posts like yours always stink of xenophobia? What difference does it make where is a supporter is from? How would being born in the UK make you any more passionate or knowledgeable about the team you support than being born outside of it?

    “.I bet if you did a poll on here i bet 99% have never stood foot in england” Oh my word! What a truly terrible thought! Not bloody foreigners?! What would they know about English football?!

    Fingers crossed I never have to read any of your ignorant drivel again (and Leon if possible too, please Santa).

  59. Lizzy, there is a certain contradiction in what you say. You clearly do not toe the party line as you put it and yet you have not been banned.

    As I have explained many times before Untold gets over 5 million page views a year, and is run by volunteers. It is quite impossible to check the tens of thousands of comments that come in each year so we have employed fairly standard automatic systems that weed out certain comments. But beyond that we have a set of rules we have established and pointed out regularly, and your comment doesn’t reflect them at all. Again as I have written many times, we have always had the view that we will publish any comment which takes any position relevant to a discussion here if it is argued coherently with evidence. And we publish quite a few, such as your comment, which doesn’t meet the criteria.

    The fact that you bet that 99 out of 100 readers of Untold has never been to England is one point. I have evidence on the origins of each comment, kindly linked into country of origin by the systems we use. I wonder where your evidence comes from.

    So if you would like to put forward any evidence for the claims you have just made about banning orders,or your 99% notion, I’ll be happy to look at them and to publish them.

  60. I too was irate with Son but from my view it was different in many ways, not least the intents and theatrics and in this case the defender wasn’t sliding harmlessly past. I would agree however with the other points about penalty creation moves “more streetwise” players have up their sleeves.

    Iwobi got himself in a bad position neither closing down the ball nor staying on his post. He has a great future and is not far off. There must be questions around general player positioning, as with the Mata goal, with none of our chaps challenging for the ball.

    His confidence may be taking a knock which might be what stopped him shooting when he had made such a good chance to do so.

    I too thought we looked out of touch with each other. A good pass and a good run look terrible and demoralising if they go in different directions. We then get static and laboured moves with passes to the player not for him which unless safe, are likely to be intercepted. Overall team movement off the ball is not often shown on TV and was at times distinctly lacking.

    I really want to support Rambo but was very frustrated by him. One particular moment summed it up when we were chasing the win and he got the ball in loads of space in their half and simply sent it back to the defence. That is hardly the creative visionary play I expect from one of our best players.

    It was PSG and we drew twice with them and extend the run but are not looking as convincing as is needed to go much further.

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