By Tony Attwood
As we all know Mr Wenger has kept us in the Champions League every year. Arsenal (from 1998–99 to 2016–17) have participated in 19 consecutive campaigns which is second only to Real Mad. In essence we have been in the top four for 19 years, our lowest position by definition is of course fourth.
In the ten years before Mr Wenger 1987/8 to 1996/7 we were in the top four, six times and our lowest position was 12th.
In the ten years before that (1977/8 to 1986/7) we were in the top four, four times. Our lowest position was 10th.
In the ten years before that (1967/8 to 1976/7) we were in the top four twice. Our lowest positions were 16th and 17th and relegation in both of those seasons was for a while a real possibility.
I don’t want to go on doing this chart forever but for anyone who has not bothered to study their Arsenal history between 1953/4 and 1967/68 we were in the top four once in 15 years. Our lowest positions were 13th and 14th.
If you reverse all this there is a real progression here from being a club that could get into the top very rarely, up to a club that could do it half the time, to a club that did it all the time. In fact it is rather smooth – twice in ten years, four time in the next ten, six times in the next ten, then all the time in the next 19.
Now of course top four is not a trophy, but there is something to be said for progression, not least because clubs that leap up suddenly to win things, also have a habit of falling down very quickly too.
Of course to a number of the people who say they support Arsenal, none of this means anything at all, because they don’t have any interest in context. And that’s fair enough – that’s their choice, and there are many newspapers, broadcasters and blogs, as we have seen in the past week, that have not the slightest interest in context either.
But as I say, that is a choice – you can take an interest in the historical perspective, and the events moving around you, or not, as you wish. My interest has always been in context, which is why I not only publish this blog but also the AISA Arsenal History Society blog. Some say, “history is bunk I just want us to win the league.” It’s a bit like a child in a pram throwing out the toy, but that seems to be the level of much debate these days.
However the AHS blog is currently publishing week by week what I believe is the first complete and detailed history of Arsenal in the 1930s, reviewing each game, and all the players involved. We’re currently nearing the end of the project although there’s going to be a lot of going back and updating the articles, as more information has come to hand as the project has continued.
But I mention this because there’s context in that period too. During the period from 1929/1930 to 1938/1939, Arsenal won the FA Cup twice and the League five times – the club’s greatest period. Before the FA Cup final of 1930 Arsenal had won nothing. It took Herbert Chapman five seasons to move the club from a no-trophy club to winning its first major trophy, during which time he offered to resign, because he had failed to get a trophy sooner. Sir Henry Norris told him to get back to work. He knew context when he saw it – we’d he’d paid off all the clubs debts in 1910 the club was on the edge of extinction.
Now you might expect that, looking back to that period, the supporters of the era would be deliriously happy at a club moving from no trophies in 34 seasons in the league (four missing of course because of the first world war) to one that won seven trophies in ten seasons. But in fact this was the era of the “boo-boys” – the ancestral version of the aaa. They started out by jeering Jack Lambert (the club’s top scorer for three seasons running, and a notoriously nervous player), and basically ended his career at Arsenal. Then they gathered real momentum from the defeat to Walsall in the FA Cup when Arsenal put out a reserve team and lost in circumstances that would of course not be allowed today (spectators on the touch line, that sort of thing).
Matters got worse and worse until eventually the players spoke out against the crowd, and Arsenal’s sheer success turned against the club. Even winning the league was not enough, and there was criticism of the final league win which came right at the very, very end of the season. Arsenal had won the league, but it was a close thing. It wasn’t good enough. Under Chapman we would have won it with six games to spare.
And this is where context comes back. When Arsenal beat Liverpool on the last match of the season to win the league at Anfield there was joy a plenty because it was the first league title in 18 years. Some of us who were season ticket holders then were starting to think that we might never ever see a league trophy again. So it was all wonderful – not only because we had won, nor because of 18 years, but because of the fact that during those 18 years we hadn’t even come close save for a second place just once in 1973.
In the 1930s as now, there was an expectation that we should be, as a correspondent so amusingly put it recently, challenging to win the title every season, at least up to the last three weeks. As if somehow Arsenal has a right to this. But there are half a dozen clubs with the same ambition, and as I showed in a recent review of the Premier League era, this sort of close finish is rare. Unless the Premier League turns into a league similar to that in Germany or Spain, or indeed Greece, where the same club or two clubs wins almost all the time, it isn’t going to happen.
Arsenal are not the richest club in the league – we are the fourth richest club in the league, and therefore to think that we can have regular championships as of right is nonsense. If we can hold the club and its players together (which in the current febrile atmosphere seems utterly unlikely) then the progress that we have seen since the 1960s which takes us to the position of regular top four finishes, will be continued. But the total revolutionary upheaval that the media is pushing for, will more than likely see a period in the doldrums, as has happened to Man U.
What will happen, I don’t know. As I saw in an article in a piece in the Telegraph, it was noted that, “Before they met in the Champions League on Tuesday night, it was PSG manager Unai Emery who looked doomed but their shock thrashing of Luis Enrique’s side meant there is now almost certain to be a vacancy at the Nou Camp this summer.”
One game changes it all, which is interestingly, because Barcelona tend to have a perspective on just how difficult it is to get success in a league with half a dozen strong clubs in it, and probably because they recognise two FA Cups and a runners’ up spot as quite a significant achievement in the last three years.
As the Telegraph says of Mr Wenger, “Barca have tried to poach him before and [Mr Wenger] may be unable to resist finding out whether his footballing philosophy dovetails as perfectly with their own as many have previously suggested.”
They go on to say that there are of course many other clubs that would welcome him (AC Milan and Inter being two that are particularly noted).
As Mr Wenger said, “If you look at the history of Arsenal, Arsenal had less Champions League games when I arrived than I had in my career already, and since then we have done a few, so I hope in the future we can win this trophy, or Arsenal can win this trophy.
“But it is not like I arrived Arsenal had already won the European Cup five times – they had never won the European Cup.
“They played maybe 10 games [in that competition] in the history of the club, so you have to take into perspective some demands.”
As for Barcelona, well suddenly the British media has less to say about them and their fall from grace – despite having sponsorship incomes that are more in a month than Arsenal get in a year. And despite being in a two team league (in which they are second, and Real Mad have two games in hand.)
I wonder why so little fuss is being made about Barce’s 4-0 defeat.
| Team | P | W | D | L | F | A | GD | Pts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Real Madrid | 20 | 15 | 4 | 1 | 54 | 18 | 36 | 49 |
| Barcelona | 22 | 14 | 6 | 2 | 61 | 18 | 43 | 48 |
| Sevilla | 22 | 14 | 4 | 4 | 44 | 28 | 16 | 46 |
| Atlético Madrid | 22 | 12 | 6 | 4 | 39 | 18 | 21 | 42 |
| Real Sociedad | 22 | 13 | 2 | 7 | 36 | 31 | 5 | 41 |
| Villarreal | 22 | 9 | 9 | 4 | 29 | 15 | 14 | 36 |
| Eibar | 22 | 10 | 5 | 7 | 36 | 29 | 7 | 35 |
| Athletic Bilbao | 22 | 10 | 5 | 7 | 28 | 26 | 2 | 35 |
The rest of the teams in this league are closer to relegation than winning the league, so I’ve left them out. It’s that sort of league.
Arsenal History Books on Kindle
The novel “Making the Arsenal” by Tony Attwood which describes the events of 1910, which created the modern Arsenal FC, is now available for the first time on Kindle. Full details are here.
Also available on Kindle, “Woolwich Arsenal: the club that changed football” the only comprehensive history of the rise of Arsenal as a league club, and the attempts to destroy the club, from within and without. For full details please see here.
In addition to above i would say Barcas defeat to PSG should be focused ahead of Arsenals defeat at Bayern as Barca has the most potent forward line in the world .
But the hypocrite media have their own agenda.
you really dont need to wounder why bcus barcelona have proven themselves over the years and this is the very first time they have lost to PSG to such a wide margin but arsenal has been white washed over and over again by bayern and trust me when i tell you that wasnt a loss arsenal were bullied into submission even wenger called it a nigt mare
there are no maybes in soccer do your buying at rhe very bginning of the window.DM,CB,LB and a top 9 in the likes of suarez,higuain,costa.this is what should be obtainable
Perhaps it’s because Arsenal are English, playing in the English league and you live in England.If you lived in Spain you’d know there is plenty being made of Barcas 0-4 reversal. And very little being made of Arsenals defeat.
On a wider scale though there is the fact that Barcelona have won CL’s and league titles in the recent past and recent successes count for something. Much is made of the fact that Arsenal have won only 4 knockout games in the CL in over a decade, and rightly so.
Id say if you move to Spain the Barca result would make many headlines and I would be surprised if the manager is there next year.
The Arsenal result would make little news over there as it would probably be expected?
Is there any point competing in the Champions league when we have fallen short of the elite over the last few years?
Food for thought but its a free world.
The media will do anything to get a jab in at Arsenal.
This includes ignoring Barca’s fall from grace, whilst suddenly promoting the Europa League “progress” of Manure as success, whilst virtually writing off the Spuds loss against Gent as “bad luck”.
They really are a disgrace to journalistic principles.
We forget that what ever happens, with Arsenal in the CL that money pays the (yearly)stadium debt. If we were not in CL we would have less money for players, having to pay the debt from somewhere else.
I don’t care about any other club. Arsenal are still in the competition with or without the chicken support who should flock off to our noisy neighbours.
One sad prat brought along his diaper warning to the Chelsea match – enough is enough, time to go. His mama used to warn him when he was younger now he has a banner to remind him -diapers full, time to go.
Under the current Ucl format which will terminate when the new format comes into effect, Arsenal fc is a giant among equals in the Champions League to have been the only PL club that have played in the competition for a 19 year run which is second only to Real Madrid’s 20 run. Thus, a forth place finish in the PL and in most Europe top League gives the Ucl tickets to some clubs who made the cutting mark grade. And in the context of this, a forth place finish is an unofficial trophy.
I said in one of my last comment posting which wasn’t published that since ever to win the PL title became highly financially based, Arsenal don’t have the domestic mass financial muscles that Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea have, talk less of having those of the external big financial muscles of Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG and Jeventus have to embark on many top top quality players recruitment to enable us win the PL title like the above 4 mentioned clubs have which has been enabling them to win their Leagues title consistently.
It must be this Arsenal financial shortcoming which has made them to be the financially weaker club side to Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea has limited Le Prof to have the mixture of only 2 top quality players of Ozil and Sanchez. And a few quality ones with average ones who have graduated from the Arsenal academy school to the senior team squad.
In this wise, I think the Arsenal board have recognised this financial shortcoming of Arsenal in relation to the stronger ones which the 2 Manchester clubs and Chelsea have and has made them to stick with Le Prof for the past 20 seasons despite he hasn’t won the PL title for over a decade. Because they’ve seen that despite Arsenal haven not won the PL title for a long time for financial reason, Le Prof has been able to get Arsenal to be playing in the Ucl consistently for almost 20 years which is a very big achievement.
Therefore, save at some occasions when it could happen, we of the Arsenal fans should not be too high in our expectations to see Arsenal beat the 3 and 4 domestic and external super club sides whenever Arsenal play against them until the financial status quo at Arsenal improved considerably.
However, but that doesn’t mean Arsenal can’t beat any of their 8 rivals super club sides domestically and externally on a rare occasion whenever they play against any of them. In the light of this, and being that the stake is very high than ever for the Gunners to perform credibly well in their next four games so as to diffuse the media and pundits hypes against Le Prof, the Gunners MUST make sure they redeem their image and that of Arsenal by beating Sutton Utd, Liverpool, knockout Bayern Munich from the Ucl by 4 goals to nil at the Ems and also beat last season Champions – Leicester. And from then we will see.
How are the media ignoring Barca’s result? Did you check the papers the following day? I was privileged to go through them on the net,they murdered them. Even Messi who had carried them all season was also murdered. So please drop this. You don’t expect U.K. Papers to talk so much about a team in Spain.
Another point,everytime Barca have lost by a huge margin in the champions league or fallen short in the season, the coach has been changed. Every single time. So even Enrique know what’s coming at the end of the season…change.
lets drop this Barca comparison please, we and them are not on the same level in European football. We can bet they’ll handle their issues at the end of the season,the question is…will we?
AW deserves more respect and appreciation for what he achieved as Arsenal’s manager. I for one hope he continues to be Arsenal’s manager.
http://au.eurosport.com/football/premier-league/2016-2017/arsene-wenger-has-given-everything-to-arsenal-but-now-it-s-time-to-walk-away_sto6063285/story.shtml
Is there any point competing in the Champions league when we have fallen short of the elite over the last few years?
I think you already know the answer to your rhetorical question.
The thing is Real and Barca tend to win the CL on occasion. Most important stat for Untold is how have Arsenal fared in the last 16 over the last 19 years.
OT
An outrageous Joey Barton attempt to get a Lincoln player sent off today
I am quite sure Arsenal would have won the Champions league on numerous occasions had it been up and running in it’s present format 50 years ago.
@Leon
Yes but Lincoln got their revenge in the sweetest possible manner! Well done the IMPS.
I think Barton met his match in Matt Rheade 🙂
Stephan:
Eerm, I think we compare our CL outcomes with Barcelona because they are also in the C/L. Who else should we compare with – West Ham??
Enrique has seen “what’s coming” for a long time – certainly longer than last Tuesday. Also, I don’t think we need to be changing coaches every year, we need stability to be able to compete at the top level.
The victim mentality on this site’s thread comments is running embarrassingly out of control. Get a grip.
I get the referee conspiracy theories – even if I don’t buy the idea that the bad calls necessarily prove that there is a deliberate campaign to disadvantage Arsenal. But to claim that the media also has a unique agenda against Arsenal is just risible.
The media has but one agenda – to sell stories. And bad news tends to sell better than good. So whenever any club is going through a poor spell, the media sensationalise it. And the bigger the club, the bigger the story.
That’s all. No unique singling out of Arsenal. No agenda against the club. Demand better journalistic standards, by all means. But enough of the “poor me” whinging.
JimB
”So whenever any club is going through a poor spell, the media sensationalise it.”
As we have seen with Liverpool – no EPL title since 1990 and thousands of articles about their failures on the football pitch and as for Leeds, their sensational fall from the heights, you can’t open a newspaper without reading about them.
No Jim, you’re a bit off the mark there.
Zedsaunt – you understandably obsess about Arsenal and voraciously read anything about the club. You do not do anything like the same with regard to Liverpool. Or Leeds. That’s why you’ve deluded yourself that Arsenal are uniquely wronged. Guaranteed that there are Liverpool and Leeds fans just like you, complaining bitterly about how the media has a special agenda against them. Because, naturally enough, they tend not to read obsessively about Arsenal. Or Spurs. Or Manchester United…..
You know you’re in a dark place when the fans on a blog known for wallowing in thier own misery start comparing themselves with Liverpool supporters.
Welcome perspective on the situation, Tony. It’s absolutely ridiculous how extreme the reactions can be from some people who call themselves fans. Gary Neville is a better Arsenal fan than a lot of them. Who thought we would ever be able to say that!
Rosicky@Arsenal
You can have the most potent front line in World football but if they neglect their defensive duties the way Messi and Neymar do, a hard working and well organized, talented side like PSG can outplay them as they did.
This btw has been one of the problems with Arsenal in recent years.
Having players like Ozil, Ramsey and Walcot in one line up for example, guarantees that no matter who Arsenal play on the day, they are going to get outworked and out hustled and if the opposing team is talented enough, they are just as likely to win.
You just can’t have any passengers on defense in modern football even if you are Barca.
Just watched Bale come on for Real Madrid in the second half against Espanol. Scored a great goal to put Madrid up 2:0 and a few minutes later misplaced a simple pass, after which he proceeded to chase after the play, put in two tackles and help win the ball back. And he just returned from a lengthy injury.
I have never seen Neymar do that.
Tom
”You just can’t have any passengers on defense in modern football even if you are Barca.”
That was consistent Tuesday and Wednesday.
It was highlighted by the shift Lahm put in, at both ends and the middle. His commitment and reading of the game has transformed Robben.
Zedsaunt
Guardiola said Lahm was the most intelligent player he had ever worked with.
No wonder he’s being moved up to Bayern’s boardroom next season.
Arsenal boardroom on the other hand….
@Tom
Lahm has already said he rejected the offer to become a part of the boardroom or I got something wrong.
@Norman, Tony
I don’t get the whole income thing. If income is the criteria under which we decide who should expect to win the league, then we should simply announce Man United as the league winners in August and that’s it.
Fortunately, that doesn’t go that way or The Invincibles would have never happened.
My main concern is that Arsenal haven’t been doing well in big games for 14 months. One victory against the rest of Top 6 and European big guns in sixteen games is a terrible record. Use a comparative method if you disagree. The second worst among Top 6 are Spuds with FOUR victories in the same interval.
Tom
”Arsenal boardroom on the other hand…”
A different context, a different culture, a different worldview. For me it comes down to how such a club as Bayern value their football tradition and maintain it. For the players – what is their ”professionalism?”
Josif
I haven’t followed that story so you are probably right on, but the fact Lahm was offered the job speaks volumes.
As for Arsenal record against big teams, I’m afraid that’s the indictment on tactical preparation in big games and that falls squarely on the manager.
You can beat smaller teams on talent and ability alone.
Against better clubs, the whole team has to work like a well rehearsed unit and Arsenal don’t.
OT: Trump muslim ban
Marca has a little article. Apparently playing a “friendly” in a muslim country is enough to have you banned from the USA. Dwight Yorke found this out.
http://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2017/02/18/58a8635ee2704e93518b4591.html
What’s next? If you play against a muslim in a game, that also gets you banned from the USA?
According to Private Eye magazine Trump is going to ban all Americans from the USA because they are the worlds biggest mass murderers
The players have let him down horribly this season. Whatever tactics or plans are made during the team meet has to be executed by those who are playing. And I don’t think they are repaying the faith the manager has put in them. Every time they have messed up, Wenger sticks his neck for them. These guys have taken that for granted. And Santi was the midfielder who transitioned the attack, since his injury we just haven’t been the same. So I think it’s time these players start playing for their manager of not for club and fans. Hopefully we can do to Bayern what they did you is at their home ground.
Cech, Gabriel, Holding, Per, Gibbs, Granit, Elneny, Ramsey, Alex OC, Walcott, Welbeck. ask them if they are staying, we can go with one competition, nicely, we clearly are missing cohesion! Alexis scored on his own and at 1-1 they came out and didn’t switch on, he was right, push the feck up!
If Alexis played for Southampton, I would wish for us to sign him.
If Koscielny played for West Ham, I’d wish for us to sign him.
If Ozil played for Spurs i wish he wasn’t playing there.
If Bellerin played for Everton, I’d wish we signed him.
When Cech and Drogba played for Chelsea i always cursed at the fact that Arsene Wenger dithered and didn’t sign them long before Chelsea. Wenger says he had them on his radar long before they went to Chelsea.
I never wished we signed Welbeck when he was at United. Why? Because he was just an average player.
If Elneny or Gibbs played for Swansea I would never say “this is a great player, let’s sign him.”
There are not many other players in this Arsenal team whom you would say are top, top class and they would have really attracted your attention (and want to buy) if they played at another British club. They’re just average players.
We have a very good manager but we have just averagely good players in most positions.
The result is that we can easily beat the teams outside the Top 6.
And against the talented Top 6 teams we struggle and sometimes we get beaten badly, very embarrassingly bad defeats.
Arsenal cannot continue to hold onto more than £250 million in a fat bank account, charge fans the highest levels of season ticket and match ticket prices, pay our manager the highest level of wage but have a squad that doesn’t adequately compete in the big games because many of our players (Sanogo, Carl Jenkinson, Gibbs, and our midfielders, and central striker) are not good enough or the top, top talent that a club of the stature of Arsenal deserves.
Alexis Sanchez is a top, top footballer but I don’t think he is a central striker. He is just doing a brilliant job in a makeshift position.
Alexis is such a good football player that if we made him play in central midfield or at right back he would probably still be one of the best players in our team.
Do many people here buy the story that Oxlade Chamberlain “liked” that Arsenal Fans TV video on youtube critical of Arsene Wenger by MISTAKE?
Mistake. Really???
And why is he a follower of a media platform that habitually criticizes the team and the manager?
Is this why the manager always says after a defeat that his “players are not mentally right for the fight”?
How can a player be mentally right for the fight if they are consistently searching for negative videos about Arsenal and Wenger before and/or immediately after games.
“We have a very good manager but we have just averagely good players in most positions.
The result is that we can easily beat the teams outside the Top 6.
And against the talented Top 6 teams we struggle and sometimes we get beaten badly, very embarrassingly bad defeats”
Liverpool have the best record against other top six in the PL with 16 points.
Arsenal have the worst with 5 points.
Do you honestly believe Liverpool have a better squad than Arsenal, and if you do, who would you take from Liverpool over Arsenal position for position?
Are any of Arsenal back five with Cech, Kos, Mustafi, Monreal , Bellerin , inferior to Liverpool’s for example?
@Tom
I know the question was sent to someone else but I’d take Henderson for the central midfield, Mane for the right wing and Coutinho for the left wing. Sturridge is a poor man’s Anelka (the comparison works on more than one level as both of them have played for Bolton, City, Chelsea and Liverpool) and Firmino is a very poor man’s Alexis.
Liverpool have a lot of shortcomings in their team. From their back five Clyne would be a perfect replacement for Bellerin when Hector is injured, suspended or out of form and Matip could be a decent third choice central defender.
Conclusion: 3 out of 11. The combined team would be: Čech-Bellerin, Koscielny, Mustafi, Monreal-Henderson, Cazorla-Mane, Özil, Coutinho-Alexis.
That being said, I’m curious how Liverpool will cope with the European football next season. Once they had to split their focus on more than one competition and/or had either Mane or Lallana unavailable, their performances in the league were awful. Both times Borussia won the league under Klopp they had had no European distraction to mess with them. For instance, their big winning streak in 2011-12 started only after we and Olympique Marseille had eliminated them in the group stage. Klopp’s style of play is physically demanding and it’s no wonder Borussia had an awful injury record in his last two seasons.
Liverpool has a lot of attacking talent such as Coutinho, Flamino, Mane, Lallana, and Sturridge. Liverpool might win more against top 6 teams than Arsenal but does it matter if at the end of season they are below Arsenal in league position?
@Polo
Sturridge should make a statue of Luis Suarez in his backyard as he would have never earned a rich contract he got on the basis of that crazy season of theirs.
I don’t know exactly what went wrong against Bayern. Koscielny afterwards mentioned the need to stick together, and play as a team, so maybe that is what they failed to do in the second half.
However, myself I don’t want to criticise individual players for not being ‘top class’. It is part of Arsene Wenger’s genius that he has always taken players others didn’t notice and improved them, in some cases making them great. Doing this, he kept us in the Champions League for 19 years, something only equalled by Bayern and Real Madrid.
I have always admired this quality in him, not to just buy the already finished article, as Chelsea does, but to take young or underestimated players and make them Arsenal players.
This respect for the idea of education and improvement instead of the power of money is rare in our world, and to be highly valued. The idea that people can do great things if given the chance.
Just to mention that my previous contribution is awaiting moderation. I was nice and didn’t swear!
Josif
I have no problem with your line up.
Disagree about Anelka/Sturridge comparison though.
Anelka had a frightening pace Sturridge is clearly lacking, a fact that makes him a bad fit for a Klopp system.
Regardless whether Liverpool make CL next season or not , Klopp needs to make more changes to his squad and judging by his first Summer TW , where he managed to improve his team while making a small profit, he should be able to achieve that.
-It’s just that finishing in the top 4 can no longer be considered sufficient when 1) the club has so much money (7th richest in the world), 2) we’ve had managerial stability for so long, so that the manager should have been able to develop and finesse the squad properly enough to show true progress, 3) we’ve brought in several world class players.
-Still we see basically the same pattern repeat itself year after year in terms of (lack of) performance
-Being in the CL is pointless unless you challenge for the trophy, which Arsenal haven’t done in 11 years’.
-I knew this site would use Barca’s 4-0 defeat as a means to diminish Arsenal’s humiliating thrashing in Munich. The minor difference, though, is that Barca have actually WON the CL and La Liga several times the past 12 years, so this was more of a rare blip for them, whereas Arsenal have not challenged for the highest honors the past 12 years BUT have experienced this kind of humiliating defeats many times in this same period.
-Please note that Arsenal have finished on average 13,6 point below the league winner the past 12 years.
-Please note that the club officials (incl. Wenger) long said that we could not compete for the highest honors due to the demands of building the new stadium. Then, it was said we WOULD be able to compete Europe’s elite. Yet this has not transpired. We are instead clearly a second-tier team.
-It’s entirely unfair to seek to intimidate fans with “fear of the unknown” under a new manager by using the example of Man U recently as a benchmark. Please not that Barca, Real, Atletico, ManC, Chelsea, Bayern, PSG, Leicester, Dortmund have all won the league AND had manager changes. This is an absolute bogus argument. The key question is of course to replace Wenger not with a Moyes type, but with a top class coach.
-Look at Chelsea now, on the way of winning the league (again) with a manager new to the club this very season. Seems “the total revolutionary upheaval” is working very well there.
-We have a manager who never openly takes responsibility for failure, but constantly blames everything and everyone else. This is ethically deeply flawed behavior.
-Wenger’s mode of reasoning is generally deeply ethically questionable. His tendency to deflect key questions/problems by constructing pseudo arguments and submitting bogus polarities is not conducive to a genuine dialogue and the assumption of proper responsibility. The latest interview (transcribed on the club’s official webpage) is a case in point:
” I would just like to add as well that we played against a good Bayern team who have won this competition [recently], and who have 11 top-class players.”
; But the point is that you’re paid massive wages, you’ve been at the club for 20 years and you have enormous resources at your disposal, yet you get drubbed 5-1 again! The point is not that Bayern is good, it’s that Arsenal are so very much inferior.
“on whether speculation over his future is unhelpful for the club…
‘I think we have to focus on real problems. The real problems are the way we play football and not my future. ‘”
; But these are very much related! The real problems are caused by the way you run the club and manage the team!
“The priority is how we respond to a defeat and how we will play together.”
; After every humiliating defeat you say this. The words are wise of course, yet no improvement takes place!
“Even if I go, Arsenal will not win every single game in the future”
; No one believes Arsenal have the right to win “every single game”! This is bogus line of reasoning meant to distract from the longer-term failure you’ve led the club to. We don’t believe we can win EVERY single game, but we do expect to ONCE IN A WHILE properly challenge for the title.
“I do not work here for 20 years not to care about this club”
; No one is disputing your CARE for the club, we’re pointing out that all the evidence these past 10 years shows that you no longer are capable of managing the team so that it can compete for the highest honors.
“As long as you do not win absolutely everything there is always something wrong ”
; Another bogus argument. No one is saying Arsenal could be expected to win EVERYTHING!
“in the last 20 years in Europe only three clubs have managed to play every year in the Champions League and that is Arsenal, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid and nobody else. That means if everything is not perfect, not all is wrong.”
; Dear Lord… the minor difference is that Bayern and Real have actually WON the CL several times during this time, whereas Arsenal’s results are much, much poorer.
-If Wenger stays, we’ll definitely lose Alexis this summer, I’ll bet you £10,000 on that.
Some great points and that’s coming from a hard-core Wenger out ⛺
Very interesting comments wit individual merits; but one tin I found wanting is not holding d players responsible for their lack lustre performance; I hve always wondered why Wenger is d one on d receiving End of media nd. Fans oppobrium wen in actual fact dey. Play on d pitch while d manager can do little outside wat he had done during trainning; for me d players must get their asses up nd play to instruction nd game plan; why loose ur structure nd organisation bcos Kos was injured? Didn’t d substitutes traine seamlessly wit d rest of d team? Hence expected to fit into d team wen substituion is called? D players must henceforth be our focus bcos like a commentator said dey let d manager down agonoisingly nd dey must be ashamed of calling demselves professionals. If Ox is constantly interested inreading negative articles about his club nd manager it means he doesn’t believe in both. Nd must be thrown out soonest his subsequent posts nd explanations are after thoughts bcos its clear his heart belongs sumwhere else. Nd must be a problem. In nd off d field to d entire team.
Alex OC has Obessessive Compulsive Disorder, he is like Wenger’s child, you don’t give up on someone like that!
He’s good enough for second and could be a great starter, he’s late, Jenks low self esteem, battered by an 8-2, you build persons by these means, Gibbs can be good enough, he’s stayed fit this season, playing the odd game, but Bayern nuh-uh! All three feed off the teams morale.
Elneny, I like, but he’s for cups, hence the price tag, Monreal, Walcot, Welbeck, not good enough. Amrican owner, buys American Owners player. mmmmm…….. Giroud is Dzeko, Dzeko gets 20 from bench, Oivier is on his way, but he’s not the starter, new contract is to inflate value to actual value, Santi, I think it’s finished in prems, Jack, not back, new ankle injury, this is why.
You jetison Theo, Danny, Nacho and thats easily £40m that’s a class winger, ;eaving cover at CB, and RB and a new LB, Alaba he didn’t look enthused at trouncing us, is their some truth, maybe we wait. He’s in my new look squad, as is Manolas, I waited for Mustarfi, whose name means, I come to help!
RW, Ryad is available at less and I think we are his preference, he’ wasn’t allowed to leave, Vardy wanted somewhere else (he’s so middle England I don’t blame him, I didn’t want you, but would have bid as well) , more importantly you lose those names above and save around £550k a week in wages, do some maths. Debouchy also, Sanogo, Mert likely but please stay to coach, positioning, insane!
What you are missing is a brain, left leg and right arm, nothing more, but try going about Bayern like that, see how you fair!
And lets see what Aubamayang does, Morata and he can’t both be at MAdrid, with CR7 set to move higher up the pitch with his stats showing he isn’t so mobile anymore! Patience.
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