By Tony Attwood
I read the comment that I have put in the headline the other day. I thought it a strange comment at the time, but knowing how I am not averse to making awful cock-ups when I rely on my memory I decided to look again at the figures.
But it turns out that for once I am right…
| Rank | Club | Revenue € million | % gap | Country | Previous rank |
| 1 | Manchester United | 689.0 | – | England | 3 |
| 2 | Barcelona | 620.2 | 90% | Spain | 2 |
| 3 | Real Madrid | 620.1 | 90% | Spain | 1 |
| 4 | Bayern Munich | 592.0 | 86% | Germany | 5 |
| 5 | Manchester City | 524.9 | 76% | England | 6 |
| 6 | Paris Saint‑Germain | 520.9 | 76% | France | 4 |
| 7 | Arsenal | 468.5 | 68% | England | 7 |
| 8 | Chelsea | 447.4 | 65% | England | 8 |
| 9 | Liverpool | 403.8 | 59% | England | 9 |
| 10 | Juventus | 341.1 | 50% | Italy | 10 |
In terms of the top England clubs regarding income Arsenal are third behind Man U, and Man City, and above Chelsea and Liverpool.
So if income determines the league position in England that is how it ought to be: Man U, Man C, Arsenal, Chelsea.
However income from player trading, crowds, media rights and marketing, is not all there is, for income can also come in from the owners. That doesn’t happen for Arsenal who are currently having to pay for their new youth training facilities out of income. It does happen with Chelsea and Man City. Man U are a separate case as back in the 1960s they started developing their world wide marketing plan, which has been the greatest football revenue success of all time in the UK.
But let us look at the percentage gap in the fourth column. This is what percentage revenue each club has of Manchester United’s revenue. Arsenal only has 68% of Man U’s revenue, and so if money relates directly to success then each season Arsenal should only get about two thirds of the points total Man U gets. So if Man U gets 85 points we should be about 58 points.
Two things emerge from the table. First, the clubs with lots of money are not using it to march ahead and become all conquering. Indeed you can’t even say, each extra £50m is worth 10 points a season since clubs with more money don’t always end up above clubs with less money.
But it is worse than that, for those who argue that money is the deciding factor. These figures only take into account income from normal footballing activities. Financial Fair Play does not stop club owners paying for youth development and stadium improvements.
The youth set up at Manchester City is considered by many to be one of the best – perhaps the best – in the world, but none of the payment for it came out of Man City’s income. Neither did the cost of expanding the stadium, which they were granted in the first place at a very low cost by the state on behalf of UK tax payers such as me. And possibly you (depending on where you live and if you are earning).
It is difficult to estimate how much the owners put into clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea, not least because the amount is variable season by season. The Man City owners have invested in the new youth stadium and all the facilities around it. The Chelsea owner is about to do the same with the Chelsea stadium project – just as he did for the Cobham training facility.
But the one thing we can say is that the financial distance between Arsenal and the clubs above them is far greater than that shown in the figures above, except of the case of Man U, as the other clubs have massive investments not counted in the figures above, from their owners and sponsors.
Thus instead of it being possible to argue that Arsenal should be doing far better because of their finances, it should be argued that it is quite remarkable that Arsenal has managed to keep even close to the financial giants above them.
Of course it can be argued that this is Arsenal’s fault for not getting an owner who will put more money into the club. I personally don’t agree with that, because I have always been proud that once Highbury was built Arsenal then relied totally on their income from the ground as a way of becoming what other clubs then called “The Bank of England Club”. Arsenal’s source of income from a rich philanthropist came in 1910 when Henry Norris cleared all of Woolwich Arsenal’s debts and subsequently took the risk of being the club’s guarantor over the lease at Highbury. Since then the club has lived on its income.
That might not mean much these days when instead of the crooks robbing the banks, the banks rob everyone else, but I find it still something to cherish.
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Tony, as much as I agree with you if you look back at Wenger’s successful sides, they’ve all had a spirit long missing from the squads of recent years. You can’t regain that if key players leave.
In a similar vein, Ian Wright claimed Mesut Özil pulled a sickie rather than suffer the ignominy of being dropped on Saturday. Özil is a precocious talent; he’s the sort of player who is a joy to watch, the kind of player you want in your side but one who will never carry one on his shoulders.
What a state the club is in. The manager whose popularity declines with every passing day, star striker doesn’t want to be there and a board too paralysed by fear to act.
A club on the Road to Nowhere.
A Club on the Road to Nowhere . How sad but true !
I support everything Arsenal and i believe UNtold does same aswell but let me ask, If Mr wenger decides to leave tomorrow and we get a new one..Hope untold will defend him aswell?
Let’s make Ian Wright the next manager, since he obviously knows so much.
Shoot, well what else can I say? Arguments among players are commonplace and there is no law which states they have to get along. Andy Cole and Teddy Sheringham hated each other but formed a remarkable partnership; that’s one example.
We, as a club, seem obsessed by harmony, without accepting that friction can be a positive dimension to any team, irrespective of the field in which they work. It’s how it’s managed which is the key.
Alexis, it’s alleged, pointed fingers at various points in time, others did the same after he ‘stormed out of training’ having been told he wasn’t starting at Anfield. If true, quite right he was pulled up by team-mates. And I have no issue with him calling others out, provided he accepts he too is at fault. That’s part and parcel of football.
But underlying all of this is the reason for the story’s leak. My own view is that it is trying to deflect the negativity to the player, away from the manager. The club is well aware that the star striker leaving will reflect badly on the manager and the state of play around Arsenal at the moment.
I think if anything, us fans have to take responsibility for the recent results. Arsene Wenger finally caved and put 10 men behind the ball like a small team both at Munich and Liverpool.Like what happens to small teams, sometimes you suffer thrashings. So the manager has given the fans what they want, sit and counter, be ‘smart’ and defend like a small team. So some small team results follow when small team tactics are played. It is an oxymoron since small teams will no longer be ‘small’ if their tactics were that successful.
I remember we played barca and lost 3-1 (one pen), it was a coin flip, we played football and defended from the front, could have easily won it. I would rather lose goals to the counter than play like a small team.
I ask you where is the consistency?
But here’s the bigger issue. How can Wenger struggle to motivate a winner like that? How come he’s not calling Ozil a f*cking embarrassment of a man in the changing rooms like Mourinho? If he was so angered by Sanchez and his histrionics, why was he even with the squad? How could he possibly entertain bringing him on after 45mins if he’d been such a bastard? How are players not prepared and not motivated?
Who’s the real embarrassment in all of this? I’d say it’s the manager who has to hire soft boys and pay them more money than anyone else would for loyalty. That’s a weakness personified. It’s no coincidence Wenger hasn’t been able to keep his best players over the years. RVP, Nasri, Cesc, Adebayor… Wenger even had an issue with Clichy he couldn’t deal with so he moved him on. All had the same issue, Arsenal don’t have the ambition to win. We have a manager who is cool with mediocrity. He’s soft. Just like the players he keeps on.
So sure, Sanchez is all about himself. But look, the best managers find a way. Wenger’s way was to sign nice boys. Nice boys don’t fight. Nice boys don’t win. Nice boys are happy just as they are, which is the anthesis of a winning mentality.
Would you want to go to work with a bunch of bottlers? I wouldn’t.
Sievezone
Sorry but reading your post you come across as damage controller, also, blaming us fans is a cop out for the likes of you. Actually be honest, the 1st half we were the Walking Dead, no life, the 2nd half it was lfc who played the counter attack. We were 2nil down to a lesser team, also, you will witness Bayern play the counter tomorrow, are they a small club?
John L,
Agreed. I really couldn’t care less what Wright says about anything. He’s just a bloke who played for us 20 years ago.
Final rant, in my opinion Wenger is a deadman walking, he’s on the edge and he hears the fan unrest… my gut feeling says that if we continue to ramp up the pressure, we could push him out. It’s brutal, but the embarrassing ironic cheering we have going on at away games is a little bit like what small clubs do when they’re getting a tanking in the FA Cup. Let’s stop being so nice and bring our club back. I can’t take another two years of a man who resembles Comical Ali under the tamest of questioning. I can’t sit here for another two years as my club and your club regresses in quality because we cared too much about an old mans fears of powerlessness and loneliness in his old age. Not our problem.
Time for Wenger to move over. Time for change. Make your voices heard on Tuesday night if you are lucky enough to be there.
@all
Why does everyone here assume the voices whom are concerned with are current state will just accept any name/pundit? Sorry, that’s not it!
Nobody here hates Winger, if anything, Arsenal owe more to him than any player, our stays and Stadium is a symbol of Arsene.
I love the man, you can look at my previous comments/post. Something has changed in the man, we were better when fighting the financial might of the other clubs during our Stadium development, I think the fight from him is gone, this Stadium development has really it’s toll, anyone who can’t see that is lying to themselves. It’s just a testament to the man, he knows nothing else, its pride more than the battle keeping him going.
Over recent years, Arsenal have punched above their weight, though it seems now, one or two blips seem to be coming in.
But, at the risk of upsetting the WOB with a phrase they hate…..be careful what you wish for….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/06/arsenal-legend-thierry-henry-josh-kroenkes-preferred-candidate/
Mandy, sorry I completely disagree. Purely because Arsenal with the 5th or 6th largest budget in the world has been transformed from genuine contenders to also-runners at best. For the last 13 years Arsenal in April and May have spent ZERO days in first position in the Premier League.
Arsene Wenger has brought us huge humiliations every year – 2:8, 0:4, 1:5, 0:6, etc.
Arsene Wenger has trolled Gooners by playing Sanogo from the start against Bayern; by giving Walcott the captain’s armband against Chelsea; not starting Sanchez at Liverpool; by refusing to rectify obvious team weaknesses; by keeping for years flops like Diaby, Denilson, Fabianski, Bendtner, Ramsey etc; by bidding £40 milion plus £1 for Luis Suarez; by many famous comments like “you didn’t work even one day in football” or “you haven’t made 50000 substitutions”.
“Specialist in masochism”? I think “Specialist in sadism” is more appropriate.
Today Arsenal games bring no emotions, but apathy, because everybody knows the season will be finished as one more title challenge fails and Groundhog Day continues.
7th in the world in terms of revenue…..but as the article says, when revenue and sugar daddies are factored in, we are at best a distant fourth in this country. and in early post stadium years, we were well below fourth in terms of money we could spend.
So by definition, punching above our weight over many years.
@mandy
Our board is second to Man City in wealth, however, we a noble club who wish to operate in our means!
The future looks bright….the king is dead, long live the King.
I think Mandy that a certain monsieur Wenger needS to be asked about that. For the record so far his excuses range from financially doped clubs having petro money while he had to operate using brass coat buttons.You couldn’t make it up. Then there was the work in progress that would soon make us dominate football otherwise known as youth project with such luminaries as Diaby ,Bendtner and a cast of dozens of dopes who were going to perform these heroics.There were those though who believed in that unlikely scenario and then there really is no hope for them.
Injuries have also been used to explain away failure with Ramsey or Rambo as he is apparently known getting injured one season being used to explain that season’s usual capitulation that have occurred anyway even when Rambo was fit and firing his imaginary AK 47.
Even though it only fires blanks. The manic champagne cork popping celebs that time at Newcattle in the changing room ,that went vial on Twitter, showing grinning Wengo and his over-paid Wallies partying after ‘winning’ a 4th place trophy and the big bucks that earns tells you all that you need to know about what is really construed as being success at the citadel of commercialism.
A place unique for a top club in football where a business plan supersedes winning trophies by putting making profits the first priority. The FLAKY control freak accountant fake football manager Wengo runs that business plan for Syrupy Stan and getting a change of modus operandi at AFC is not going to be easy.
Dan well behind utd as well in wealth.
And way way behind Chelsea in wealth plus what their owner gives to them. During the lean years, many others could outspend us.
But yes, as you say, we live within our means, and not only that, for whatever reason, we have built up a sizeable cash hoard, not easy to do under relative austerity until recent years.
Also, some nice cut and pasting from Le Grove
Regime change can be painful, but necessary. As like many others before, the propaganda machine try’s to defend the indefensible, spins the web of deceit, the inner circle still believe, they always will, but for the peasants, the ones who were neglected, ignored, abused, laughter at, and belittled, finally their day arrived…..and yes, we have our team back….
@Mandy
What cut/paste from le grove?
Guys and Mandy, If we the fans are too polite to want to see Wenger hounded out how about tomorrow night chanting long and hard for Sanchez ,especially if he doesn’t start. I would be really upset if Sanchez had NOT shown the emotion he did at Bayern when for example Ox gifted them their 5th goal which in practice ended the tie or at Bournemouth when Giroud was so pleased with himself for scoring a spectacular goal not bothering to try to get 3 points. He is playing with a bunch of amateurs. Our one class player is going the same way as RvP and Cesc and is having his reputation trashed in similar fashion to support the party line. Unless fans show their anti Wenger or at least pro Sanchez feelings Wenger will conclude all is ok and sign that contract
dan, not you cut and pasting, should have made that more clear in my post……Jai…..and it’s actually from Online Gooner…..pretty much the same thing ….
See a few paragraphs down
http://www.onlinegooner.com/article.php?section=exclusive&id=3605
I call that list of big players who have deserted Wenger’s cod philosophy The Inevitables. And they all went on to bigger things
Lol ? bravo giver her a blue Peter badge lads
Jai, if I could be there for the Bayern game, I would be cheering for whoever is selected to play
Don’t the critics of Wenger say he pays no attention to the fans anyway, so wouldn’t your suggestion be futile!
Yes Klis, if The telegraph are to be believed, we get our team back with the highly experienced, Thierry Henry as manager….a man who has never slagged our squad off in the media….so he would be ok there……a man sure to solve our defensive issues…..and a humble man whose ego will not get in the way, a man who always put Arsenal first….except for the Barca excursion
@mandy
Do to you agree Wenger’s primorial instincts of pride rather than battling is keeping him going?
Hi Mandy no I don’t think it’s futile. Not sure who the critics are but I think he certainly is feeling the heat like ever before ?
I honestly feel he’ll walk at the end of the season, only something criminal has to happen to make him stay but the way this team is playing its safe to say we’ll be out of the top four and out of the fa cup very soon… Just watch the tensions against him then…
Jai posts
”Arsene Wenger has brought us huge humiliations every year”
Which the fans of 88 other football league clubs in England would gladly take.
What makes you so superior, so superior you can have a ‘huge humiliation’ as opposed to ‘we got beat again?’
@Mandy…ok. Not Henry, aim for the stars…Simeone..
Jai posts
”In a similar vein, Ian Wright claimed Mesut Özil ‘
Is that the same Ian Wright who came on TV screens in 2010 before the World Cup telling everyone to put money on England for the World Cup because they were a good bet?
A shill for a bookmaker and you would quote him!
Not sure Dan, but whatever Wenger does, I believe he thinks it is for the best of the club. He knows things we, and the media do not. As the poster Finsbury has suggested, Wenger knows the small print of the death bed wrangle and what Fiszman may ….or may not have been forced to concede to Stan …..to stop Dein, or maybe Usmanov getting control of the club. A worry may be that should Wenger falter, not sure who would be able to tell him so in the current structure.
But ultimately, Wenger will be judged on results……although if one chooses to believe Arsenal News Review, Wenger has signed on already. Maybe true, but I would suggest at the moment, this would be unlikely…..who knows.
Klis, good manager , but not sure the club would go for him, and the squad would have to be totally rebuilt to be fashioned for his style of play.
And we know, our resources are finite, and we do not have the lax third party ownership rules that benefit athletico , so he would not be able to access his South American imports on the cheap in this league
And ultimately, doubt if Stan would go near him
If Wenger departs , we are completely in the dark as to who they would look to
Dear Dan,
I am not blaming just you as a fan, I am also a fan, so I am also blaming myself. My point is let the poor man work in peace. My point is not all of our tactical advise is so great that it would be applicable. Many keep saying sit and counter, but we should consider we may not have the necessary players to do so, because we bought our players around an identity that is not as simple as sit and counter.
People use to blame Wenger for pushing the fullbacks up, but as a defensive tactic, pushing the fullbacks up can help you recover balls further up the pitch if you lose the ball there, whilst also facilitating possession play (also can be defensive tactic, keep the ball from your opponent). and we say he does not do tactics. We (fans) do not do tactics, every manager including Wenger quite literally does.
There are only two people who can decide when Arsène will go – the man himself or Stan Kronke who owns two thirds of all of the club’s shares. No-one else gets a say in that decision.
OT
From the department of fake news aka BBC and chelski
Trizia Fiorellino, chair of the Chelsea Supporters Group, said: “It’s obviously fantastic news for us. Spurs have got a new stadium, West Ham have got a new one, we were in danger of being left behind – but this is great news for Chelsea fans.”
Mandy, I salute you! You took on the whole mob!
I turned from some sanity in a few of the comments to the last articles to a full scale anti- Wenger tirade on this. Mandy, your patience amazes me.
Agreed, Sievezone, it seems whatever Arsene Wenger does some clown turns up to say he should have done something different. Everyone is an expert. But Arsene Wenger just carries on spending his whole time thinking about how to win football matches. And when he doesn’t win, he spends even more time thinking about it.
And that man can certainly think.
Jai posts
”I can’t sit here for another two years as my club and your club regresses in quality because we cared too much about an old mans fears of powerlessness and loneliness in his old age.”
You sit in the seat he built for you. Like your mother said, you came out wiping your own
arse.
To blame is first and foremost, the team and second AW.
They are separate and should become a team of 12.
The team is just not able to perform individually anymore within a team framework.
But we know they can, we have seen them do it. So why are they not doing it right now? This is the real question. Why does this team do the same things over and over again?
This means that our training methods ends up being the culprit now. See, the team has changed over the years, yet we still get the same results so it cannot then all lie on the players, there must be another reason.
AW is in charge of the training methods, so he takes the blame there.
Some time back i likened Arsenal to a kung-fu apprentice (learning the movements repeatedly in slow motion), so that in time one becomes better than the master. It just seemed then and now that Arsenal is not getting better than the master, except for a few moments of pure joy when the training all clicks and boom, Arsenal are moving as a unit.
Still think we can beat Bayern if we approach the game properly. We know them, we know how they play, surely some sort of plan can be made to disrupt them?
I know it is the individual brilliance of their players that Arsenal seem to lack, so concentrate on their weaknesses and attack there. This has always been a “war” for 90 mins, and one should plan accordingly.
I think Arsenal has lacked this planning for some time, or perhaps never had it, but had players(like Bayern have today)who had that extra. Sadly we do not have many of those types of players anymore and this is apparent.
Arsenal are just not prepared to do what it takes, but they must change and they must do that tonight, no holds barred, after all, all of the other teams do it.
I am going to watch the game, so i have to think we can win, else i will not watch it.
More probably i will watch the first 15 mins (like i do with movies) and if it(Arsenals performance) has not captivated my interest, then bin it.
Why does this site persist in not questioning Wenger contrary to all the evidence building up against him?
The only people I know who want Wenger to stay support Chelsea and Spurs. Why is nobody on here asking why is that? Why have Arsenal not won any of their last 21 away matches against the current top 6? Why have Arsenal not progressed beyond the last 16 of the CL for the last 7 years? Why have Arsenal not competed for the title beyond March for the past 13 years? They are reasonable demands for a club of our stature.
The one constant in all those years and matches is the manager.
There are no longer any more arguments to persist with him.
Top Guns
You’ll probably find the answers you’re looking for on “alternative Arsenal” blogs.
There are so many differing opinions out there right now that it’s difficult to make any sense of it at all.
Untold (to their credit) are unwavering in their support for Wenger, while others are more flexible and if the truth be told realistic considering the current situation.
It could all change with one or two results this week.
You sit in the seat he built for you.
No he didn’t ! Don’t delude yourself.
Top Guns – do you honestly think that Wenger enjoys losing to teams like Bayern? He is hurting just s much as us fans. Yet many of us think we are better than him & can win by doing this or that. The reality is that Wenger built this squad & selects the team but does not have a divine right to win against all that he plays against.
We as a team were not able to cope with the pace or the guile of Bayern. Liverpool were fortunate that our defence were not switched on for the first goal & subsequently exploited the uncertainty in our defence for the second. There was no issue with our offence apart from they were not aggressive. The second half we showed offensive aggression & after scoring were unlucky to get caught by an off side goal towards the end of the match.
Despite all of this, Wenger is the man who has to shoulder responsibility. He does that with more than just heart. It hurts his being & his love of the game & his love for Arsenal. He is the only man to resolve the situation & also the only man to decide when his time is up. We as Arsenal fans owe him more than respect for his achievement & the magnificent systems he has put in place for the future success of our club.
A man needs support more when he is down than ever & what has happened is the fair weather fans have started to spew venom like it was they who brought the club thus far.
Menace – he fails every single season though.
Every other top club would have long got rid of him.
Wenger had a period of success at the club which is now many years ago.
Arsenal had lots of success before Wenger joined Arsenal. Why should he decide when to leave? He is now damaging the long term future of the club and it is sad if that were to be his legacy.
Top Guns
”Why should he decide when to leave?”
There are 88 other clubs in England who would grab a good Cup run, top 4 EPL position, with both hands. There are fans all over the UK who get nothing season after season yet somehow, for some Arsenal fans, Mr Wenger is failing to deliver.
”He is now damaging the long term future of the club”
What do you understand by ”long term?”
Zedsaunt – in the 65 years before Wenger arrived at Arsenal the club won the league title 10 times. Mr Wenger has now won the league title 3 times in his 21 years at the club, so an average return and why he has been allowed to remain in place for so long. However he has now not competed for the title beyond March since 2004 which really is too long for a club the size of Arsenal. The top 4 finish is meaningless – the club has never used this as a stepping stone to a higher finish, and with the new TV deal the money made from the competition is now less important.
This lack of competing is likely to see the best 2 players depart from the club, and the lack of competing is not likely to attract any top players with genuine ambition. The decline is therefore likely to continue. That is what I understand by long term.
Top Guns
How many times did we build a new stadium in that 65 years?
How many times were in in the CL in that 65 years?
Do you know the value of 20 continuous years in the CL?
Do you think that matters? – or do you think the club doesn’t need money to survive?
BTW, what do you mean by “competing for the title”? We haven’t won it since 2004, but to say we haven’t challenged since is stretching the truth a bit. You say we are not “challenging” and our 2 best players want to leave because of it. So if we finish 4th – and two of Liverpool, Spuds, Citeh and United finish below us – surely they will have players for us to “attract”. Or do you think only Arsenal have a divine right to win the league?
Top Guns, you post – ”which really is too long for a club the size of Arsenal.”
This seems to be at the core of the problem, the expectations of what Arsenal should be. Add to this the steadfast refusal to accept that the game has massively changed globally.
Add to these the next factor – ‘genuine ambition’ – your phrase – comes from anywhere on the planet. To be a skilled footballer opens for the world. The fourth factor – every game is recorded. Statistics game by game, player by player. Measurements of the player, game by game. Careers of individual players can be analysed player by player, each game up on the screen.
The yardstick you use – ‘a club the size of Arsenal’ – dates from the 1950s. A country the size of Iceland should never beat England. A country the size of Denmark – 5.5 million – should never win Euro 1992. How did such results happen? Games have to be explained.
To compare the 10 titles Arsenal won in 65 years with the 3 titles won by Mr Wenger in 21 years gives an average which exists on paper – your phrase ‘so an average return’- but exists nowhere else. Moreover, such an averaging out disrepects each of the titles won. Games have to be explained. The 1930s cannot be the 1950s.