Right now, who would you kick out of the club?

Posted on by Tony Attwood

by Tony Attwood

Imagine you are paid to report football stories and likely rumours.  Not weird made up tales but stuff that could well be true.

Now imagine that you were doing this job 18 months ago and your boss said, “I want you to write a piece about who will win the domestic trophies and which clubs would get rid of their manager.”

And now finally imagine you presented a list of three clubs (Leicester, Manchester United and Manchester City) back to your boss.    Your boss might say at this point: “what’s this, a list of trophy winners or a list of clubs that will part company with their managers?”

And you say “both.”   And you’d be right of course.  They won trophies and the manager left largely because winning a trophy is not enough any more.  As Mr  Wenger said, “You have to accept that nothing is good enough.   You have to live with that.”

So I guess those who want Mr Wenger out will have changed their minds about wanting Arsenal to be defeated in every game, but instead will want him to win, so he then goes.  He will after all at that point be the manager with more FA Cup wins than any other in the history of the game, and it seems unlikely that anyone will ever come along to beat that – what with clubs getting rid of manager when they win something.

And of course Arsenal do have practice in winning with a different manager each time.  If you know your Arsenal history you will know that we won the league in 1933, 1934 and 1935 with a different manager each time.

It is interesting though that this year the predictions of winning managers leaving are not being repeated; interesting because normally the same  predictions are made each year.  It doesn’t matter that they are wrong each year, they still come back each year.

So last summer and the summer before (for example) the media (big and little) predicted a mass exodus of Arsenal players.  In fact by the end of the window there were stories of 20 Arsenal first team players leaving each summer.

In the end the numbers were a lot smaller.  Last summer for example we let go (or lost depending on your point of view) Serge Gnabry, Wellington Silva, Tomás Rosicky, Mikel Arteta and Mathieu Flamini.

So not 20, and in fact at largely predictable list.  In fact I think that the only player anyone wanted to keep from that list was Gnabry, and that was only after his work in the Olympics.  He was offered a contract and turned it down.

The year before we had the same thing happen – everyone was predicted to be leaving and in the end we lost Lukas Podolski, Ryo Miyaichi  Semi Ajayi  Abou Diaby.  (Of course some departure lists also include temporary loan exits, but loanees can return and sometimes do, so I leave them out – otherwise they get counted twice; once when they leave on loan and once when they leave permanently).

So, obviously, winning is not enough.  Which means getting into the semi final again, and thus retaining our semi-final record is not important.  Mind you it was when this picture was taken.  It was Arsenal’s first semi-final in 1906, played at Stoke against Newcastle (in the zebra stripes).

 

Arsenal lost that one and a second one the following year against Sheffield Wednesday and the expansion of their ambitions soon came back to haunt them as by 1910 the club was completely bust.

We didn’t do any more semis until Chapman came along and we beat Southampton in the 1927 semi at Stamford Bridge.  We still didn’t win the cup though until 1930.

Overall however we still have the record number of semi-final appearances, shared with Manchester United.  Just as we share the record number of cup wins.  In this table * shows teams already through to the semis this season and includes this season in the total, ** is for the two teams still to play the quarter final.

Team Appearances Won Lost
Arsenal 29* 19 9
Manchester United 28** 19 9
Everton 26 13 13
Liverpool 24 14 10
Aston Villa 21 11 10
Chelsea 21** 11 10
West Bromwich Albion 20 10 10
Tottenham Hotspur 20* 9 10
Blackburn Rovers 18 8 10
Newcastle United 17 13 4
Sheffield Wednesday 16 6 10
Bolton Wanderers 14 7 7
Sheffield United 14 6 8
Wolverhampton Wanderers 14 8 6
Derby County 13 4 9
Manchester City 13* 10 2

But let’s go back to the start: everyone is leaving.   To the already extensive list we can add Lucas Perez who is “eager for a summer exit at the Emirates, despite only signing from Deportivo last summer.” That is in the Metro.

Also off according to earlier comments are Cech, Bellerin, Gibbs, Koscielny, Xhaka, Ospina, Debuchy, Monreal, Jenkinson, the Ox, Ozil, Ramsey, Alexis and Theo.   Only 14 so far, but still plenty of time to add to the list.  The window doesn’t open for another 110 days.

Arsenal History Books on Kindle

The novel “Making the Arsenal” by Tony Attwood which describes the events of 1910, which created the modern Arsenal FC, is now available for the first time on Kindle.  Full details are here.

Also available on Kindle, “Woolwich Arsenal: the club that changed football” the only comprehensive history of the rise of Arsenal as a league club, and the attempts to destroy the club, from within and without.   For full details please see here.

Both books are also available as paperbacks.  Please see here.

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43 Replies to “Right now, who would you kick out of the club?”

  1. Mr wenger needs the Emirate fa cup trophy to be the record winner as a manager. This might be his last season for us so, i would like him have that record which looks unbreakable. BUT, we have all the strong teams still in the cup.
    I foresee a north London derby draw tonight to start with.

  2. If we are looking for scapegoats (I am not), what does that big green dinosaur contribute?
    He seems happy regardless of results. Surely that attitude cannot be tolerated.

  4. What is more amazing is how such ‘fake news’ find fertile ground in the gullible Arsenal fans, who have adopted the innuendo of a “club in crisis” which all the silly reports have served to highlight. Alexis grimaces on camera and the reports interpreted that as him smiling at our downfall, as if he isn’t a part of the team.

    For a few weeks now, I have kept off reading headlines on blogs or the papers, even avoiding some football programs, other than the info I can glean from the club website and other known reliable outlets. It is bizarre how the media appear to have laid siege on the club…and I have a theory on that: Manchester United needs to make top 4! So, create a semblance of disharmony amongst players and further divide the fan base. Then, surely, United can take advantage.

    Well, it’s up to the boys to stand firm and try to win each of the next 12 league games (86 points) and see where that leaves us. Indeed, win every game till the end of the season and win the FA cup a record 13 times.

  5. Bayern Munich are looking at Xhaka. They are also very interested in Serge Gnabry. City and Chelsea are interested in Alexis, and United and City are looking at Ox. My feeling is that we will probably give in and re-build the squad – but we’ll get rid of the wrong players to accommodate that.

    On the other hand, it looks like Mesut wants to stay – and hopefully he can persuade his little mate Alexis to stay as well. Then we build on that.

  7. * sorry but you missed out Shez & Jack leaving when they get back from their loan spells. Wasn’t Giroud touted to leave to go back to France as well, oh and Per back to Germany

    By the time the transfer window opens it will be easier to list the players who are apparently staying

  8. media has already claimed that we are outside top 4. When we lost to Liverpool, the first thing the commentator said,,,”ARSENAL are out of top 4″. That despite us playing one less game than Liverpool and only 2 points behind them.

  9. They haven’t gone after Doris the tea lady. Yet.
    After ‘Ackers out’ it can only be a matter of time.

    The tea leaves are quaking.

  11. ‘Couldn’t we kick out the eternal moaners???’ yeeep sack them all. pay them back their money if need be and tell them to fuck off and go home. enough. the stadium was built for supporters not entitled customers who moan that we cant buy the league or cheat for it….

  13. Start at the top with the Kroenkes, (not sure about Alisher Usmanov) then Gazidis followed by any players who overvalue themselves.

  14. @Goonereris

    I’ve chuckled at this “club in crisis” nonsense too. I heard a “supporter” on Radio 5 on Saturday complaining that 5-0 was rubbish and it should have been 10-0 at least. I suspect if it had been 10 he’d have moaned it wasn’t 12. He went on to parrot the media in talking about the Arsenal decline. Of course Savage loved it and agreed like a bloody lapdog. Neither chose to explain how two FA Cups followed by Runners Up in the League could be defined as “decline”. This was so totally demonstrative of someone who listens to the media rather than looks at the facts and thinks for himself.

    @Walter

    As soon as I saw the headline, my thought was identical to yours. Let’s kick out those people who don’t actually “support” the club.

  16. From all d noise nd confusion dat has bin created around Arsenal nd Wenger in d last weeks, I tink am in tune wit d commenter who said room must b created for ManU to get into d top 4 from outside d pitch but tru d media war on Arsenal to distabilse d team nd d manager; I hope AW nd d players are conscious of dis very ungodly conspiracy ;they shuld d4 take up d gauntlet close ranks nd forge ahead discarding all distractions frm witin nd outside. They shuld determinedly focus on d remainIng games of d season nd ensure they are played like cup finals. If Alexis has become a clog in d wheel of progress of d team AW shuld ignore him nd give Lucas a chance as. His replacement in d team, no player is is too important to be replaced , Lucas has not bin given d chance to prove his mettle I cee in him a beta player dan Alexis afta all AW made Alexis d star he tinks he is so Lucas can fit in properly in d team all he nids is d chance. Shalom!!!

  18. Arsenal had two easy finals but this one looks insurmountable. Now looking like the over under dogs. Do not imagine most of the above players would want to leave because a it’s a stress free environment because it is such a NICE club now and b who would want them honestly. Jack just makes up the numbers and he is only surviving ay Bournemouth. Walter & Hunter moaning about the percieved moaners. Honestly chaps. Let’s hope the Ox will stop his moaning and be like well Ramsay. Never seen him so happy than when he broke the net against Lincoln. A win against the Baggies will see it through.

  19. 2014- 4th place; and the FA cup
    2015 – 3rd place; the FA cup and the Charity shield.
    2016 – 2nd place; and the Charity shield.

    Only thing missing this season (and I am not saying it is over yet) is the natural progression to 1st place in the league.

    The abov don’t suggest a team in decline. The team plateaued but has not regressed as the media will have you believe. Only 6 sides have won the EPL so not sure where the sense of entitlement originated.

  20. Pierce Mrgan.

    Institute a good news/bad news indicator for former players turned muppets. If they get more than 6 sigma to the negative side, cut them off.

    Do the same thing for directors, except the cutoff is 4.5 sigma.

    Do the same thing for the commentators on Arsenal TV (the position that Stewar[dt] person had), with a cutoff of 3 sigma.

    —-

    The NHL instituted a “winter classic” game a few years ago. It is played outside, not in the regular location for the team deemed the home team.

    Football in England needs to be doing more for the grassroots (other than having an endless array of muppets advocate for gratuitous violence in games).

    There were historically reasons why the last gameday has all games starting at the same time. I really don’t think there is a reason to do this for the first gameday. Have a special game on the first gameday, at an earlier time. The game is played at some reconstructed field that is being handed back to the community.

  21. Osassa? what? perceived moaners? they are moaners plain and simply…nothing satisfies them..dont want them near my football club…theyre disgusting.

  22. YOUR football club. Please. Try an online anger management course. They are all the rage.

  24. So the Arsenal PR machine is out to destroy Arsenal with stories of “Alexis should be sold because his distance covered stats” and “Bellerin and Ozil to leave if Wenger leaves” and the ex players and pundits who believe Arsenal fans who protest are disgusting…..yea the media is out to destroy us including Wenger loyalist John Cross.

    You need to drop this mentality of us vs the world. It’s as predictable as Arsenal in February.

  26. Hunter
    Yes lets get rid of the last true fans and replace them with more of the tourist supporters that are only there for the attraction and the corporate hospitality…They are part of the problem and everything that is wrong with the club.The majority of Wengers cult following on here dont go to the games and have never stepped foot in the country never mind the Emirates.
    The only people who want him to sign another contract are the few on here with a few die hard Wenger lovers and fans from Man u,chelsea,Man city,liverpool and Spurs who recognise whilst he is still in charge of Arsenal they needent worry about competion for the top honours.WEXIT

  27. austInpaul ojeaga ksp
    13/03/2017 at 1:46 pm

    If you cannot type in proper English then please refrain from commenting. You comment is like trying to find sense in a rubbish bin. The sense is there but the rubbish is making it stink.

  29. tom – are you looking in the mirror? How many is a few die hard Wenger lovers? You are more tourist on here than most.

    In fact ossasa, Tommo & tom are the current tourists in the Untold pleasant valley . Where Hunter13 rightly claims Arsenal as his & Wengers. Brickfields describes those special ones as ‘them’.

    To me they are blind to the real threat to the game & to Arsenal – the FA & PGMOL. These two organisations eating away at the honesty like flesh eating bacteria.

  30. tom…sorry dude ..true fans dont go acting like cunts to managers who changed their club for the better.

    they have expressed their opinion..they can sit down now…and if theyre that upset about it they can stay home.

    if you think that coming like a cunt swearing and abusing wenger till you get your way is democratic or exercise of your freedom rights then you are a moron and i would happily slap some sense into you.

    spurs? lol..what the hell have they done?….

  31. @ Menace 14/03/2017 at 6:41 am – Previously ‘them’ types used to be like the Sith- a master , and his loyal arse licker ; now more often there seems to be a Ménage à trois , and sometimes , even a daisy chain of quatre and cinq homme !

    And there is of course the very suspect self appointed hall monitor /gate keeper who seems to swing both ways !

    Does it in any bother me at all ? Nah !

  32. Menace and others

    Take no notice of tom.

    He’s the one who came here with the statement:

    “I bet you didn’t complain when Eboue and Pires where regularly diving for penalties”

    All I did was suggest that Pires reputation for diving was exaggerated and requested some evidence to support his accusation, after which I would apologise if he could produce it.

    Suffice to say I’m still waiting.

  33. Hunter hahaha …. Brickfields lives in a hut in Thailand, Walter lives in a virtual studio in An(twerp) and the mighty Menace eats breckie all day (full English yeah) in a cheap resort by the Med. Maybe Hunter lives near Gord ..

  34. Can i ask why my posts are in moderation and the likes of Hunters and menaces arent??Is it because they use foul language and threaten posters??

  35. Hunter Happy to play the hard keyboard warrior arent you..I have no doubt he changed the club for the better and was once a top manager,but does that mean we should keep him as manager till he dies???Sentiment plays no part in sport as many managers will vouch for.The likes of Ranieri and mourinhio has been more sucessful than Wenger in the last 10 years but it didnt stop their respective clubs making a change when things started to go wrong.so quit the insults and get back to school.
    And nitram why do i need evidence of Pires’s diving antics .We all knew that he was one of the best at the time trying to con referees.

  37. Tom, I don’t think you quite get the notion about evidence overall. Pires dived, yes. But the issue is, did other players in other teams, and then did Pires do it more or less, and did Arsenal have more or fewer divers diving more or less often than other teams. Your view is a bit like the commentary in that Bolton film you sent over: the Bolton Conspiracy. Those making that video could make the point that we have often made that the football media in England creates the agenda and then directs discussion within it – that would be an valid point. But on its own and without reference to other teams that video does not show a conspiracy. Evidence of the type that we published today however goes much further because it compares all the clubs in the league across 16 consecutive weekends. Saying here that Pires dived is a bit like saying Tony Adams committed fouls or that on occasion Matin Keown could be aggressive. The answer is Yes. And???

  38. the three monkeys – see no good, talk no good & hear no good. the monkey with the worst habit is the fourth do no good.

  39. Tony i was responding to Nitram comments-“All I did was suggest that Pires reputation for diving was exaggerated and requested some evidence to support his accusation, after which I would apologise if he could produce it.”
    It has nothing to do with other players from other teams diving.He asked for evidence of Pires diving and ive just shown him a few examples simple.
    And you even have to admit that Pires although not quite as bad as Klinsmann, used to simulate more than most.I certainly know about evidence and i know enough to see that theres only certain posters that have to produce evidence on this site and that all depends on wether you are Wenger in or Wenger out.At least you can try to be a little less bias on those you ask..The same can be said about certain posters getting away with using foul language threatening insults and racist remarks.

  41. @ Menace -14/03/2017 at 5:18 pm – You forgot the 4th monkey – the crazed and indiscriminate shit flinger . That most of it ends up in his own face does not seem to even faze him even a bit !

  43. tom

    Are you serious?

    My question was in response to this statement of yours:

    “I bet you didn’t complain when Eboue and Pires where regularly diving for penalties”

    I fail to see how you’ve answered that in any way shape or form.

    —–Your 1st instance against Bolton is:

    a) Not even in the penalty box.

    b) A reckless tackle.

    c) A foul whether contact was made or not.

    The video was more highlighting the commentator, who understandably thought a foul had been given to Pires, rather than booking him for diving.

    But if you want to call it a dive that’s fine, but it’s NOT a dive for a penalty is it, so irrelevant to your defence anyway.

    —–Your 2nd example.

    Okay, if he admitted that then fine. That’s One. But at least he put his hands up which is more than we can say for Rooney, Gerrard, Bale, and countless other habitual divers.

    —–Your 3rd example.

    Same as your first so that hardly counts.

    —–Your 4th example.

    The Pompy one. Well I mentioned that anyway, and that incident is the one I cited as the moment this myth that “Pires regularly dived to win penalties’ took hold.

    This is what Wenger subsequently said about that incident:

    “Pires once dived against Portsmouth. For six months it was a story. Dyer dived and nobody said a word. If it doesn’t matter when Dyer dives, why does it matter when Pires dives”

    Exactly. Or more to the point, rather than 6 months, as you so eloquently prove, nearly TWO DECADES later it is STILL referred to. It’s as if nobody else has ever dived.

    This is also the ‘Dive’ that prompted Danny Mills to ridiculously claim that Pires bought diving to the English game.

    Jürgen Klinsmann anyone?

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/08/flashback-jurgen-klisnmanns-diving-celebration.html

    Flashback: Jürgen Klinsmann’s Diving Celebration

    By Daryl Grove | August 20, 2014 | 11:24am

    “Klinsmann had signed for Tottenham that summer, becoming one of the first big-name foreign players in the Premier League. Maybe the biggest to that point. He’d just scored five goals in the 1994 World Cup, and was recognized as one of the world’s greatest strikers. But he also arrived with a reputation for diving, a reputation which meant he was greeted with hostility by English media and fans.

    But hay, he’s a Spurs player so it’s all forgotten.

    So in conclusion.

    In and entire career you have produced evidence of just 2 dives that can be classed as ‘Dives to win a penalty”

    Hardly ‘Regular’ is it?

    And in case you forgot you also accused Eboue.

    You have not produced ANY evidence to back that accusation up. Nothing.

    To be honest tom, that was a very poor effort, but luckily for you your embarrassment is saved as this thread is long gone. If you want to move it into the here and now, feel free, but I’m happy to leave you to your ignorance…….for now.

    Fair does, at least you tried, which is more than most.

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