by Andrew Crawshaw
Our game against United on Sunday will be the second of three games between our clubs this week after the U18s met on Wednesday afternoon with Arsenal winning 3 – 0. The U23s play at the Emirates on Monday night with tickets currently on general sale. Lets hope that the U18 result is an omen and we produce two more winning performances.
Here is sunday’s line up…
- Referee – Andre Marriner Age 45 from the West Midlands and FIFA accredited
- Assistant Referee 1 – Simon Beck from Bedfordshire and FIFA accredited
- Assistant Referee 2 – Scott Ledger from South Yorkshire
- Fourth Official – Lee Mason Age 44 from Lancashire
For Andre Marriner and Simon Beck this will be a case of Deja view as they were both on duty for the reverse fixture in November which ended in a 1 – 1 draw. It will be the fifth time that we will have had Mr Marriner this season and whilst his numbers haven’t been too bad five times is still three too many.
Man United v Arsenal 19 November (1 – 1)
| Ref Review: MU – Arsenal |
68% overall weighted score, bias against the two teams 16/84 and three wrong Important Decisions (second yellow cards, red cards, penalties and goals).
Darmian led a ‘charmed’ life – he should have been booked in Min 15 for a foul in Walcott, was given a yellow card in Min 25 which should have been his second second booking and in Min 33 should have had a straight red card for a studs up challenge on Jenkinson.
In extra time Rooney also proved that he is ‘untouchable’ with two clear dissents in Min 90+1 and Min 90+4 without me Marriner being in the slightest bit bothered. Against a 10 man United team for 60 minutes I believe that we would have gone on to score the extra goal we needed to win the game so two points robbed.
Arsenal v Crystal Palace 1 January (2 – 0)
| Ref Review: Arsenal – Crystal Palace: more of the same please |
Overall weighted score 82%, bias against the two teams 71/29 and no wrong Important decisions. The title of the review report says it all.
Arsenal v Watford 31 January (1 – 2)
| Ref Review: Arsenal – Watford |
Overall weighted score 83%, bias against the two teams of 100/0 but no wrong Important decisions. Nothing major wrong but every single wrong decision went Watford’s way. I don’t think that they cost us the game though.
Arsenal v Man City 2 April (2 – 2)
No referee review yet but here is a link to Walter’s match report
Navas should have had a red card for a high foot on Monreal in the first 15 minutes – studs on the chin and a late wrong offside call against Monreal. Would Arsenal have won if City had been down to 10 men within the first 15 minutes – probably.
Here are the brief details of his games over the past two seasons.
2015-16 Last Season we had him in two games
Newcastle v Arsenal 29 August (0 – 1)
| Ref Review : Newcastle – Arsenal |
76% overall weighted score, bias against the two teams of 33/67 and 2 wrong Important Decisions.
- Min 12 Thauvin fouls Bellerin in the penalty area but no penalty to Arsenal or yellow card for Thauvin and
- Min 26 Thauvin correctly gets a yellow card for a foul against Coquelin but this should have been his second. Arsenal won the game but should have had a far easier time had the penalty been given and Newcastle reduced to 10 men for 60 minutes.
Arsenal v Man City 21 December (2 – 1)
| Ref Review: Arsenal – Man City |
58% overall weighted score, bias against the two teams 87/13 and two wrong Important Decisions, both not given second yellow cards against Fernandinho. I
- In Min 31 he fouled Campbell, Mr Marriner noted the foul and played a correct advantage but failed to return and issue a card at the next break in play.
- Min 59 He should have had a second yellow card for a foul on Bellerin and a third in
- Min 61 for another foul on Campbell. As Arsenal won the game these incorrect decisions didn’t affect the outcome of the game but we would probably have had an easier time against 10 men for the last 30 minutes.
2014-15 Again we had him in two matches
Arsenal v Southampton 3 Dec 2014 (1 – 0)
| REF REVIEW Arsenal – Southampton |
59% overall weighted score, bias against the two teams of 77/23 and two wrong Important Decisions
- Min 87 Southampton Player punches the ball away in their penalty area – no penalty given and Mr Marriner didn’t look as though he was at all interested in awarding one but luckily Giroud scored from the rebound and
- Min 90+2 Alexis fouled in the penalty area with no penalty given.
Arsenal v Everton 1 Mar 2015 (2 – 0)
| Ref Review : Arsenal – Everton: a first half to cherish. |
69% overall weighted score, bias against the two teams of 75/25 and one wrong Important Decision when in Min 53 Jagielka used his arm to block a Giroud shot in the penalty area resulting in a corner kick instead of the expected and deserved penalty.
How has Mr Marriner been this year in his Man United Games?
In the first 16 weeks of the season he was in charge of only two United games, the one against Arsenal referenced above and their opening day visit to Bournemouth which they won 3 – 1. Looking back to our Matchweek 1 report we noted that Mr Marriner wasn’t called on to make any Important Decisions so he plainly had a good match.
I have no ‘Flags’ against either of the Assistant Referees in their games this season so I hope they continue with the same eagle eyes they have used so far. Keep it up please.
Summary
- Mr Marriner has produced better numbers this year than in previous seasons two of the three reviewed games being over the 80% mark and only one below our minimum acceptable 70% mark.
- He had made wrong Important decisions in the two games we have drawn this year which both have potentially cost us wins so I count that as 4 points he has cost us.
- As usual the wrong decisions have been not to issue appropriate cards for foul play meaning that we haven’t had the advantage of playing against 10 men.
- Bias against Arsenal is typical of PGMO referees at between 67 and 100% so we should expect most wrong decisions to be against us.
- Man United players will continue to lead their ‘charmed’ life and will almost certainly not be carded or sent off for offences that would earn ones for our players.
- Overall he is far from the worst referee that we could have for this encounter and, with a bit of luck, we might just earn three points on Sunday – always supposing our players actually turn up to play rather than saunter about the pitch hiding.
COYG
Footnotes…
This season we analysed the first 160 PL games played and presented our reviews with detailed video evidence, all of which is recorded on this site, along with some comments made by other football outlets.
You can find links to the analyses and the articles here.
We’ve noted that one or two of the bloggettas are now re-running our referee previews as their own – without quoting us as the source, of course. It’s a little frustrating but at least it is evidence that our aim to make refereeing an issue for serious debate and analysis continues to make progress in overcoming the stonewalling of any discussion on referee matters that existed five years ago.
Lets hope that the BIGMOB are done with us for this season , and allow some leeway in reasonable refereeing and free flowing football.
Which will of course be surely be negated by the mourning one !No pressure guys , just do your stuff .
Up the Gunners !
This may be a good chance to beat them if Arsenal play like Arsenal can.
Sadly this has been lacking over this season, so i do not have much hope (because of that) who ever is playing for Manu(cos of EL fixtures?)
Still, things can change in an instant, so i do hope for a win, and a good one at that. They do really need to taste some of the shame of having a big defeat.
Refs may well try to prevent that though, and this is getting more sickening week by week.
Brickfields Gunners
I thought he was just the moaning one but maybe after the game he will be the mourning one. 🙂
Le prof never beat Moanino team.
Moanino do not need to attack simply he can defend and kill our little hope of top 4 by aiming a draw as he can be there by winning the EL cup.
I see desperate Le prof setting an all out attack and as usual caught on the counter.
Call any idiot manager and surely would have won with this bunch we got.
Why ?
Moanino knows his only route to top 4 is by winning the EL Cup and is scared of accumulating injuries and fatigue.
Any one that has got that manager batch will now that and exploit the situation.
Le prof has nothing of this kind of tactics of what they call ….winning ugly….when it matters.
Any kind if draw will please Moanino as he got nithing to loose but to derail out of the top 4 his enemy is a big win for him.
Sad but that is what i expect.
Saw this posted elsewhere and found it fascinating – scroll down to the Utd stats – certainly doesn’t feel like a win..
And kind of contextulizes why a change of manager is looking increasingly inevitable and justified.
In PL over last 5 seasons:
Vs Chelsea
P10 W1 D2 L7 = 0.50 PPG (Home P5 W1 D2 L2; Away P5 W0 D0 L5)
Vs Spurs
P10 W3 D4 L3 = 1.3 PPG (Home P5 W2 D3 L0; Away P5 W1 D1 L3)
* Haven’t beaten Spurs in the PL in the last three seasons, since Pochettino arrived.
Vs Liverpool
P10 W3 D4 L3 = 1.3 PPG (Home P5 W2 D2 L1; Away P5 W1 D2 L2)
* Haven’t beaten Liverpool in last two seasons, since Klopp arrived.
Vs City
P10 W2 D5 L3 = 1.1 PPG (Home P5 W1 D3 L1; Away P5 W1 D2 L2)
Vs United
P9 W1 D4 L4 = 0.78 PPG (Home P4 W1 D2 L1; Away P5 W0 D2 L3)
* Since Fergie retired, our record vs struggling United has been P7 W1 D3 D3.
Vs Current Top 5 Over Last 5 Seasons In PL
P49 W10 D19 L20 = 1.00 PPG (Home P24 W7 D12 L5; Away P25 W3 D7 L15)
So the current top 5’s record vs us is P49 W20 D19 L10 = 1.61 PPG.
In nearly every PL game that Arsenal played an against a Mourinho team, we have been on the receiving end of large no. of wrong decisions given against us.
Costa eye-gouge, no red
Gabriel wrong red.
Hazard diving for pen.
Darmian escaping 2nd yellow.
Rooney escaping 2nd yellow.
Mikel lunge on Arteta no red.
Ramires no red.
Cahill on sanchez no red.
These are only from recent memory.. don’t know about 04/05/06 seasons.
So fully expect the refs to protect Mourinho’s “record” against Arsenal.
Thank you Benjamin , now bring us the Arsene Wenger Vs Chelsea record pre Abramovic
after that i want the Arsene Wenger vs M. City record before the Arabs
and would like to see the Arsene Wenger Vs M.United record before we moved into our stadium
thanks 🙂
i think ..especially against chelsea the record was something like 20 wins vs 3 draws maybe one defeat or two….
cardiac canu would score hat tricks on them….
tell you waht benjamin, call me nuts but i beleive strongly that if the uk had not opened the door to criminals wenger would be dominating the league with denilson and senderos. at worst, between us and man.united. who again we would have driven to bankrupcy trying to beat us….
there was no way any club in england could catch wenger and his work without the dirty money they allowed to enter into football……..
oh and refs..but thats mainly because we refused to play with their casino rules…
Hunter, I agree before the TV money made every club richer – Wenger dominated. But those days are well and truly gone… And old glories are just that…old.
But now as the record shows, in the here and now of the reality of the situation – he cannot compete at the very top level anymore. I’d buy your argument, but for the fact that not all of the teams above are awash will arab/russian cash. The sad truth is the spuds have done it with a net spend of 7m (Wenger’s annual salary)….
It’s a shame to see this once great man become the shadow of what he once was…
96/97 – arsenal vs chelsea 3:3 // chelsea – arsenal 0:3 (wenger had not arrived for the first oencounter but tonked them 3-0 first time he met them…)// 1-0-0
97/98 – chelsea vs arsenal 2:3 // arsenal vs chelsea 2:0 // 3-0-0
98/99 – chelsea – arsenal 0:0 // arsenal vs chelsea 1:0 // 4-1-0
99/00 – chelsea vs arsenal 2:3 // arsenal vs chelsea 2:1 // 6-1-0
00/01 – chelsea vs arsenal 2:2 // arsenal vs cheslea 1:1 // 6-3-0
01/02 – chelsea vs arseal 1:1 // arsenal vs chelsea 2:1 // 7-4-0
02/03 – chelsea vs arsenal 1:1 // arsenal vs chelsea 3:2 // 8-5-0
03/04 – arsenal vs chelsea 2:1 // chelsea vs arsenal 1:2 //10-5-0
04/05 – arsenal vs chelsea 2:2 // chelsea vs arsenal 0:0 // 10-7-0
SO UP UNTIL MOURINHO FIRST YEAR AT CHELSEA AND THOSE CHEAP PLAYERS FROM ROMAN LIKE DROGBA ESSIEN ROBBEN DUFF MAKELELE CECH …..CHELSEA HAD NEVER BEATEN WENGER AND WENGER HAD NEVER LOST TO CHELSEA. …funny huh..
and i havent counted f.a cup or wherever else we tonked them…
obviously i will stop my research here as i have no intention to remind myself or anyone what drogba did to us the next decade.. 🙂
but what can be seen..easily ..is that without the russians investments chelsea could only hope to knick a draw and only in one of our bad days….
but wait benjamin….wenger has not changed..the landscape definitely changed.
why did it change? who authorised it? whats behind those decissions? who is investigating? why not investigate? what are all these tricks with russians thais and arabs using uk markets and lately football to launder their cash?
oh and we moan to platini and blatter? evil fifa and their corruption huh? typical english hypocricy….
why blame wenger for this situation?
i would rather kroenke/wenger send a team of lawyers to expose all this fiasco than accuse wenger and arsenal for anything.
@ Benjamin
You’ve at least presented some stats. Well done, that’s more than most WOB’s do.
Unfortunately, you fail to provide a context. I.e. if you’re comparing our performance against the current top five, what do we compare it with? You haven’t given us evidence of how they play against each other so no real conclusions can be drawn (apart from one, but I’ll come on to that).
Following on from that, a bit more digging needs to be done. Usama has started it for you, i.e. have a look at the performance of the PIGMOB in each of those games. We know for a fact (check the ref reviews) that we get less favourable treatment on average than most teams.
Anyway, on to the conclusion we can draw from your limited evidence. You state clearly (although I haven’t checked the maths) that we have achieved 1.61 points per game against the current top five and you see that as a ‘justifiable reason for a change of manager’. Looking at this from the other side, this means that the current top five have only achieved 1.39 points per game against us. So our record is better against the top five than theirs is against us………………………I hope you don’t undertake research and analysis for a living Benjamin!
Of course, like many WOB’s you may not feel adequately satisfied unless we achieve 3.00 points per game against all teams. In which case you have a point………………………..
Let’s not forget, all the evidence points to the FA being desperate to get Man U back in the Champions League so they can be sure of the best price when selling to the plastic arm chair fans. Rashford last week anybody!
I fully expect a defeat on Sunday largely as a result of some very poor refereeing and the fact that the Man U players will know they can get away with doing stuff to us which would earn our players cards.
Hunter – all the leagues around the world now have foreign investment pretty much. It’s called capitalism. And do you have issues with Barcelona and Real and other Spanish teams having state support? Do you have an issue with Chinese super league hoovering up players on monster salaries?
The reason the premier league has changed so much is more the TV money, which we fund by watching Sky or BT…. And benefits ALL teams.
I’m not accusing wenger of anything other than being past his best and not as good as other managers right now. He’s beaten Mourinho 1 in 15 competitive matches. With different teams.
It happens to everybody in life… Personally I’d like him to go with dignity and head held high…
heh…no problem with capitalism but in uk’s case someone had to change the domicile rule for uk club ownership…i believe it happened during blair* brown tenor.
apparently english entrepreneurs could not deal with the costs of running premier league clubs…. maybe they didnt work as properly or as well and efficiently as Wenger.
secondly…perhaps this model of capitalism with self sustainable football clubs is anathema for those who want to keep the game dirty and secretive…
manchester united … o collosus of various commercial interests reached the stage where they did the domestic double and reached the champions league final and had 60m losses. This in a year where they hit close to the maximum prize pool money they could earn from football activities/business/results/competitions. They sold ronaldo for 90 correct? and they bought owen on a free, valencia for 17m and obertan for 3?4m? ronaldo’s money went to cover losses basically. reflected in their expenditure next summer for those three unenthusiastic transfers….
what if the wenger method succeeds? which it will cause its him and he is a detemrined committed nerd who knows 100% what he is doing unlike the various chancers and opportunists in the industry ?
how will we be able to explain to ourselves that were investing 50 and 60 m and or even 100m or 200m and have this fuckign nerd beating us with ljunbergs edus denilsons and 450k cesc and 150k toure ?
not happening.
off course i have issues with real madrid who sell their training ground to bank de santader eevrytime they need some cash flow….. off course i have issues with barca who have a slave network in whole of latin america and the scams and tax evasion schemes to be able to pay their messis and whatevers are worse than FIFA….
for china i dont give a shit yet…they dont parade themselves in my face as paragons of virtue and ethics like the premier league does or the mas que un club bollocks with uncief one day on the shirt and catar foundation the next….
A pre-curser of a written piece nicely lined up for an Arsenal defeat. First time at this blog and it’s a blog where you really need to read in between the lines. I very much would like Wenger to leave but at the same time I respect him for what he’s done.
However, I see all this Wenger in out as a complete waste of time because whatever way you look at it, he has max two years left, he will be gone whether this pro Arene blog likes it or not and it will be interesting to see how long the likes of this blog will give the new manager.
Hunter – the problem is and the bit you don’t seem to want to accept, the world has moved on. A long, long way. We have been left behind in the playing sense and are one of the 10 richest/valuable clubs in the world.
So the view that other people’s money has left us behind commercially is just not true.
And you can’t argue with the results I posted earlier – over the last 5 years we have been poor compared to other teams (Liverpool and Spuds for e.g.) that have less money than us. The efficiency that you talk about is now with other teams. Again Spud’s net spend over last 2 years is 7m. Wenger’s is 100m. And, unfortunately, as the game at the weekend showed, there is a gulf in ability between the two teams and managers.
I mean, putting Gibbs ahead of Monreal and moving Monreal to centre back??? Just a wrong decision… And backfired massively in the game. Why not just play the team that played and beat City?? It’s just the last in a long line of bad calls.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not rabidly anti-wenger. It is just time for him to leave now. He should do so with dignity and class, not being abused by portions of the fan base.
It happens to all managers – they get too old and out of step with modern methods. And the problem and sad fact is that the quality of coaching that he’s up against now is a million times tougher than he faced when he first started, when he was one of only two foreign managers!
I mean this is what he faced….
Arsenal Arsène Wenger
Aston Villa Brian Little
Blackburn Rovers Tony Parkes
Chelsea Ruud Gullit
Coventry City Gordon Strachan
Derby County Jim Smith
Everton Dave Watson (caretaker)
Leeds United George Graham
Leicester City Martin O’Neill
Liverpool Roy Evans
Manchester United Alex Ferguson
Middlesbrough Bryan Robson
Newcastle United Kenny Dalglish
Nottingham Forest Dave Bassett
Sheffield Wednesday David Pleat
Southampton Graeme Souness
Sunderland Peter Reid
Tottenham Hotspur Gerry Francis
West Ham United Harry Redknapp
Wimbledon Joe Kinnear
and now? Different level of quality and competition…
AFC Bournemouth Eddie Howe
Arsenal Arsène Wenger
Burnley Sean Dyche
Chelsea Antonio Conte
Crystal Palace Sam Allardyce
Everton Ronald Koeman
Hull City Marco Silva
Leicester City Craig Shakespeare
Liverpool Jürgen Klopp
Manchester City Pep Guardiola
Manchester United José Mourinho
Middlesbrough Steve Agnew (caretaker)
Southampton Claude Puel
Stoke City Mark Hughes
Sunderland David Moyes
Swansea City Paul Clement
Tottenham Hotspur Mauricio Pochettino
Watford Walter Mazzarri
West Bromwich Albion Tony Pulis
West Ham United Slaven Bilić
I do not recall any match AW played against the moaning one that was not full of bad refereeing calls and AFC ended with a draw or a loss as a result of being a man short. Your point as I see it is that AW has grown from good to bad and is now in permanent decline and cannot therefore be competitive any longer. Really? Even though you acknowledged the other factors mentioned by Hunter 13 you still concluded that where you stated from with your lopsided stats was for real.
Around where I live it is called ‘working fo the answer’ in order to support your stats. Not defeating Klopp or Ponchentino in recent times does not mean AW has all but lost it. On the contrary, he has grown wiser and more experienced in his job. He defeated Klopp when he was at Dortmund he also defeated Ponc when he was at Southampton. So what is this “…it happens to everybody…” about? Try another tack!
Bobome – you can’t fake results over the last 5 years. It’s not working to an answer – they are just the results. I’m looking at this objectively and dispassionately and taking the emotion out of things, the results haven’t been good enough…
And you cannot put 14 out of 15 losses down to the refereeing! And never beating Klopp and Pochattino down to refereeing! This whole refereeing conspiracy to do only Arsenal down is a little far fetched and fanciful.
And the ‘factors’ that you and Hunter talk about are, where I am from, are called excuses. All managers have to deal with this playing field. And we are one of the richest clubs in the world, so the talk that everybody else is financially doping just isn’t true anymore.
And, the truth is, decline happens to absolutely everywhere and to everyone – the trick is to know when to quit. And unfortunately, Arsene has held on too long. It’s really sad, but he has proved he cannot compete for the league anymore…
Your posts of 2.11 pm or the one at 2.12 pm are still trying to justify the earlier ones that AW is a ‘dinosaur’ in your reckoning! Your opinion that is all that it is. Your stats are being displayed to support that opinion and I defer to it. What you are also saying is that AW should jettison his methods in order to adapt to the un-level playing field brought about by all the factors at play in EPL in the last 10 years. You see that is what made him AW as we know him. The EPL will live on without AW but it will never be the same again after he exits.
Like Rome at the heights of its powers and then decline, EPL will also decline after attaining the dizzying heights that it has attained in the last few years. No English clubs at the finals of UEFA is an indictment of the English FA and the Pigmob. As for Tottenham and Liverpool being not as rich as AFC and yet being winners against AFC in recent times is sadly a reflection of the ethos the Pigmob has in planted in the EPL which again works against its long term survival. Let us just agree to disagree on AW’s continuing relevance to AFC.
Sure – you can agree to disagree. But I think the problem is coming to a head – the fan base is polarised and increasingly against Wenger signing a new contract. 2 years = 17m investment in somebody who clearly cannot win the league. As again the facts support that he will not ever win another title…
1996 – 2004 = 3 titles in 8 years
2005 – 2017 = 0 titles in 13 years
Which is the longer trend and most statistical relevance?
It’s kind of like a 60s rock band trading on past glories – still good to watch, and great at milking the past hits. Just not relevant in the modern era.
It’s just time for him to go and it’s sad. But inevitable.
‘It’s kind of like a 60s rock band trading on past glories – still good to watch, and great at milking the past hits. Just not relevant in the modern era.’
That would be celebrity Gooners: The Kinks or Essex Road lads: The Equals?
removed for offence language
the fan base? lol…i dont consider arsenal fans knwoeldgeable enough of their own club’s history let alone world football to pass any judgement.
my greatest laughs are when arsenal fans talk of adams seaman and co as if they were buffon and maldini
sorry this minght sound harsh or condenceding to elder arsenal fans …but the football world imo didnt really give a shit about arsenal till they saw the wenger edition….
if the fan base had any spine they would be the first to protect wenger and the team instead of moaning of how much money they pay for tickets and dont get to see glory……
dotn know how you see it bvenjamin but in any other country ….lets say wenger is at some spannish club…say atletico madrid ..quite equal fortunes to arsenal in terms of club stature… if say the atletico madrid fans had a manager like wenger ..do youthink they would turn on him like the arsenal fans have turned on wenger?
to me….this situation…with arsenal fans abusing wenge ris one of thehighest forms of hybris i have ever witnessed.
can youimagine chicago bulls fans having a go at phil jackson or michael jordan cuase they couldnt score 60 points a game anymore or win 3 titles back2nack
of course you could say ‘ hey hunter13 so youre a wenger fan ..not an arsenal fan’
and to that my responce is : re;ax mr arsenal not liek youre ac milan of 89–90 to talk like that….
you lost from saragosa in 1995 final with lob from 50 meters in dying se3conds….with your ‘legendary’ back five ‘ best in the universe’ ..and you moan about schezney ?
hahahahaaaaaaa
Arsene Wenger – Number One. Forever grateful for what you have done
The rest of this comment was removed from offensive language
Throw this guy a lifejacket!
Benjamin – can a set of traffic lights be fixed to always show red when you approach? You must not have sufficient intelligence to realise the cheating that is going on in front of your eyes.
Well the PGMOL are worse they change from Red to Red when Wenger approaches. They are the most corrupt excuse for match officials I have ever seen & I have seen football for over 60 years in several countries. They manage the game with very evil methods. They are leeches on the spirit of sport.
Hunter is absolutely right about the laundry that the EPL has become. The investors are all washing their shit in English water while we watch a kick about.
Just realized the fat fossils in black are he same age as me 😮