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Liverpool’s! recent runs of form and their difficulties with maintaining a good season

By Bulldog Drummond

It is rather amusing that in the days of the forced selling of RVP and others, everyone moaned that we sold.   Now there are some who cannot grasp the fact that Arsenal don’t want to sell and can hold on to the players.   Having Alexis for another season on his current comparatively low wages looks quite a good deal to me.

Anyway, we have the full squad available except Santi Cazorla who is still training away in the hope of returning, although we don’t know when.  So he is our one and only injury, although those who like to perpetuate the myth that Arsenal have more injuries than all other clubs put together have been spotted holding the list upside down, just to establish the old order.

Meanwhile our opponents, the old exclamation marks…

Liverpool! most certainly have been doing well so far this season….

Date Game Res Score Competition
19 Jul 2017 Crystal Palace v Liverpool! W 0-2  Asia Trophy
22 Jul 2017 Leicester City v Liverpool! W 1-2  Asia Trophy
12 Aug 2017 Watford v Liverpool! D 3-3 Premier League
15 Aug 2017 1899 Hoffenheim v Liverpool! W 1-2 Champions League
19 Aug 2017 Liverpool! v Crystal Palace W 1-0 Premier League
23 Aug 2017 Liverpool! v 1899 Hoffenheim W 4-2 Champions League

It is of course difficult to know exactly what to make of these results, including as they do two victories over Crystal Palace and two over Hoffenheim, neither of whom have been setting their Leagues alight in the opening couple of games this season.  Although the Hoff did beat the wonderfully named Rot-Weiß Erfurt which must mean something, although what it means rather escapes me.

They did also (the ! not the Hoff) have a very good end to last season, going 12 unbeaten, after a run of 15 unbeaten earlier in the season (these stats including all competitions).  Indeed this could be the transformation moment that Liverpool! have been waiting for.

Twice in the past decade they have reached the upper eschelons of the Premier League only to slip back to their more familiar 7th and 7th…

Season F A Pts Pos FAC Lge Cup Champs Europa Top scorer Goals
2008–9 77 27 86 2nd R4 R4 QF Gerrard 24
2009–0 61 35 63 7th R3 R4 Grp SF Torres 22
2010–11 59 44 58 6th
Kuyt 15
2011–12 47 40 52 8th
Suárez 17
2012–13 71 43 61 7th
Suárez 30
2013–14 101 50 84 2nd
Suárez 31
2014–15 52 48 62 6th SF SF Grp R32 Gerrard 13
2015–16 63 50 60 8th
Sturridge 13
2016–17 78 42 76 4th
Coutinho 14

What is interesting is their lack in many of those seasons above of a goal scorer knocking up the 20 plus goals – the complaint that many make against Arsenal.  They once however had the top scorer in the league – as marked above – although he rather disgraced himself as I recall.

But last season was their second highest points total in the decade and their fourth best defensive performance.  However although I fully appreciate that the FA Cup is no longer a trophy, even if we did count the FA Cup, League Cup and Europa League as trophies, they still wouldn’t have won any.  As opposed to Arsenal who appear to have won three non-trophies during the same period.

So having twice achieved runners up spot in the league and then fallen back to 6th or 7th they will, I guess, be hoping to build on the fourth spot, and hope to be able to cope with the extra demands of the Champs League games.  They have drawn Spartak Moskva, Sevilla and Maribor.

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Their transfer window has been not as much as was hoped by the club (in that one key move was infamously botched), and I guess the supporters, who write in a way that suggests that just the mention of the exclamation mark at the end of their name means that every player would want to come and play for them, “will be disappointed” as the bloggettas proclaim.

This summer they have got Dominic Solanke from Chelsea on a free, Mohamed Salah from Roma for £36.9m plus Andrew Robertson from Hull City for £8m

The out box was bigger including our old chum Alex Manninger, Madger Gomes, Andre Wisdom (to Derby County for £2m), Lucas Leiva to Lazio for £5m, Ryan Fulton, Kevin Stewart to Hull for £5m.

Pedro Chirivella, Taiwo Awoniyi,, Shamal George, Sheyi Ojo andand Connor Randall went out on loan.  Overall they have spent £32.5m net.

As for their fans – you may have noticed that we are running a regular column on supporters of other clubs (if you have not found it yet you can read the whole series here and it also turns up on our Facebook page UntoldArsenalToday).
Herein lies the entry for the exclamation marks…


I have to say that when thinking of Liverpool FC I tend to experience the sort of deep depression of my spirits which afflicts the average character in novels of the 1930s.

In such books, as you will recall, a gritty northerner puts in a solid day’s work of stealing food from his grandmother, torturing his father-in-law, beating up his wife, and throwing any passing children into the infested canal, only to return home to find the neighbour has ransacked his house and drunk his alcohol.

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28 comments to Liverpool’s! recent runs of form and their difficulties with maintaining a good season

  • May the best team win . Hoping its Arsenal of course

  • Samuel Akinsola Adebosin

    Whether Arsenal will still sell or not this summer window before it closed on Thursday night, Arsenal will beat Liverpool in a PL game this afternoon at Anfield.

    For the avoidance of doubt and for those who might have missed my Arsenal starts and bench which I posted on this site this week last Thursday for this our away PL match against Liverpool, once again here are my starts and bench below.

    My 3-2-4-1 starts:
    Mustafi Koscielny Monreal > (back three)
    Bellerin Kolasinac > (wingbacks)
    Ozil Ramsey Xhaka Sanchez > (MFDs)
    Lacazette > (striker).

    Ospina Mertesacker Holding Coquelin Elneny Walcott Giroud.

    Because of the uncertainty surouding his staying at Arsenal this summer, I’ve decided to drop Oxchambo from my 18 man match day squad because as his mind is not settled and as result his not totally focusing on this our important big game, I don’t want the unsettling of his mind to unsettle the Gunners during their playing the match. And where is Welbeck who is a favourite starter of Le Prof? Why have I left him out of my18? No any prejudice against him from me. It’s just for his good goals scoring record for Arsenal, Walcott is more preferred to be on my bench than Welbeck who has a low output goals scoring record for Arsenal. Besides, I can’t see Le Prof dropping any of my starts for this match to start Welbeck. But we’ll see. If he’s not started , it’s essetial Elneny is on the bench as he can play as DM or centreback.

  • Polo

    Does it really matter? I am told that Manchester United will win the league this season. So let enjoy the crumbs.

  • Nitram

    This from Danny Murphy from the London Evening Standard:

    “When Alexis Sanchez had the choice in 2014, he decided to join Arsenal ahead of Liverpool. If he had those options again today, there is a good chance he would go the other way.

    Look at Liverpool in 2017. They are in the Champions League. They have increased the capacity of Anfield to 54,000 and there are outline plans to take it to 60,000 similar to Emirates Stadium”

    Lets actually break down what that says bit by bit and see if it has any credibility what so ever.

    1) “When Alexis Sanchez had the choice in 2014, he decided to join Arsenal ahead of Liverpool.”

    So the inference is that since then things have changed so dramatically in in Liverpools favour that he would now choose them over us. Is that so?

    Lets see what lies behind Murphys inane ramblings, because once you read this you’ll see, that’s exactly what they are:

    Season 2013-14

    Liverpool finished 2nd
    Arsenal finished 4th, 5pts behind them.

    Season 2016-17

    Liverpool finished 4th
    Arsenal finished 5th, 1pt behind them.

    So Sanchez chose Arsenal when Liverpool where actually 5 pts better than Arsenal, they are now just 1 pt better.

    Since then Liverpool have arguably actually ‘dropped’ further than Arsenal. Liverpool have dropped 2 places, Arsenal only one.

    Also, since then, as I have said elsewhere, Arsenal have finished 3rd 2nd and 5th, won 3 FA Cups and 3 CS’s and won 9 times on the spin at Wembley.

    On the other hand Liverpool have finished 6th, 8th and 4th and won absolutely nothing.

    Now I appreciate we missed out on CL football, but the inference is that Liverpool “seem to be on the way up” since 2014, where as Arsenal are on the way down.

    Is that really so given the above? I don’t think so.

    2) “They have increased the capacity of Anfield to 54,000 and there are outlining plans to take it to 60,000”

    54,000 then. I make that 6,0000 less than us. Oh, but they have ‘plans’ to increase it to 60K.

    So let me get this right, Liverpool will still have a smaller stadium than ours, with ‘plans’ to increase it to the same size as us, at some undetermined future date, after Sanchez would be long gone? So that all affects Sanchez how exactly?

    So Murphy is basing this catastrophic shift in fortunes of Arsenal and Liverpool on what exactly?

    Well all it can be is the fact they finished 1 point ahead of us and qualified for the ‘not a trophy’ Champions league, and we didn’t.

    Really? Is that it?

    Because as far as I can see everything else points to us actually being, relative to Liverpool, actually better off.

  • Menace

    Murphy has had a good history playing the game but has no intelligence or education. He struggles to add simple numbers & has a limited vocabulary. What is the point of taking anything he says into account?

  • Josif


    You need to realize that – for some reason – ex-Liverpool players have a huge loyalty for their club unlike most of our club legends. It’s also the case with the recent players. No Liverpool manager made a sacrifice to accommodate Gerrard in a way Arsene did with Cesc and we all know who was more loyal to his club.

    I was thinking the other day when I was listening Arsene about how he likes to give young players a chance even if they will cost him points. Given the whole situation with Ox, I can just say: “My dear Arsene, you are a great man but those kids you support and put your neck on the line for will betray you and make you look like a fool sooner or later.”

  • Jammy J

    I genuinely cannot believe that there are still some people that say there isn’t an anti-Arsenal bias, in the media. The last month or so, the amount of negativity surrounding Arsenal (judging by the titles on all of the articles on Goonernews), is absolutely astounding.

    I cannot remember it ever being this bad. We are being battered from all sides. Every day, there is a new article from an “expert” pundit, telling us how terrible Arsenal are, in some way or another. On top of that, we have all the blogs, telling us how poor Arsenal are and how we’re not even going to get in the top 6.

    Untold Arsenal, is truly one of the only places where Arsenal fans are not bombarded by negativity about our club (although, a few dickhead do slip-in). It’s all made so much worse, by the fact that most the noise and bile is coming from ex-Arsenal players and Arsenal “supports”. I’m so fucking sick of it.

  • Jammy J

    @ Josif – I gotta say, I’m extremely disappointing by the OXs behaviour. He has never fulfilled his potential and so often, does he make huge mistakes during matches. After all this time of Wenger sticking by him, he has a few consistent performances and all of a sudden he is turning down 180k/week and thinking of abandoning the club and manager that properly developed him and moving to Chelsea or Liverpool (where there’s no chance he’ll be given as many chances, as he has had at Arsenal).

  • Vivek Arulnathan

    When it comes to Liverpool or any of our opponents, Untold are ruthless in pointing out their errors, weaknesses and records. But come the Arsenal, the Gunners can do no wrong! Finishing 5th is somehow explained as not being a monumental failure. We won 9 games at Wembley YAY!! How about losing 10-2 to Bayern? Or losing 5 in 11 between January and April? But no, we lost only one game after shifting to a back three! Why not reveal the stats that show we’ve become defensively worse since that shift? Arsene Wenger can do no wrong! But of course Liverpool, a team who finished above us, are doing things badly.

  • Polo

    @Vivek, but Liverpool haven’t won any trophiy or did they? No difference losing 10-0 or losing 1-0. A lost is a lost, the rest it’s just statistic.

  • Nitram

    Vivek Arulnathan

    Are you being serious?

    Where did I say “Arsene Wenger can do no wrong” ?

    My post was about how Danny Murphy somehow interprets Liverpools achievements(I say that in the loosest terms, obviously) over the last 3 years as so significantly superior to Arsenals that Sanchez would now choose them over us.

    As I pointed out, it is arguable that in 2014 Liverpool actually were a bigger attraction than us, having just finished 2nd and being in the CL, but he didn’t choose them even with that.

    Since then:


    6th, 8th and 4th and won absolutely nothing.


    3rd 2nd and 5th, won 3 FA Cups and 3 CS’s.

    Considering how Murphy, along with everyone else, kept telling us 4th is not a trophy, and winning proper trophies is what it’s all about, isn’t it odd how 4th seems to of suddenly gazumped 3 FA Cups (proper trophies I believe) in importance.

  • Alexanderhenry

    That’s the worst half I’ve seen from arsenal in a long time.

  • Alexanderhenry try it in Chelsea country

    I guess he must know w were bpt o for it or he is just proving the fitness of some fribe players and I hope protecung Alexis otherwise he has gone mad!

    4-0 to Liverpool I have nothing to say, that should never happen.

    Ox, Perez Monreal, Welbeck, Walcott all must be sold
    We need reinforcements NOW!

  • That was West Ham vs United, the team are still on the bus!

  • Jjgsol

    I only saw the last few minutes by which time the players were clearly uninterested.

    However from what I hear every one if there goals came from a breakaway when we have been attacking which we have seen countless times over recent years.

    One can only hope that this is us bottoming out and we can only improve in the future.

    However we usually play poorly after an international break so, perhaps, I am being too optimistic.

    Had the 3 at the back experiment finished?

    Why are we still using full backs as centre backs?

  • Spurs drew and city play Liverpool next, we just cleared 2 of Tue hardest away fixtures where 4 points were par and 2 good enough and to take 3 from that 9 is fine.

    But we need to come back with a bang, I think he left it eceyobe not in need of fitness for a reason.

    IWIT sell, sell, sell! Let Kroenke have his way, and kep going.

  • jjgsol

    I was thinking the same, although a defeat is one thing to play that badly is another.

    Perhaps, as well last week’s loss might be regarded as unfortunate in the circumstances, but today maybe there is something else going on which is affecting the players.

    The situation with regard to Mustaffi is indeed strange.

    I wonder how the non contract situation is affecting those players.

    I also wonder why it is we concede so many goals from breakaways when we are attacking.

    Can someone who saw the game tell me how Sanchez played?

  • alexanderhenry


    ‘Alexanderhenry try it in Chelsea country’. Meaning?

  • alexanderhenry


    It was the worst arsenal display I’ve seen for years.
    The three at the back was a disaster, no one in midfield was tracking back which meant Liverpool players were running into the final third unchallenged and arsenal players were bottling challenges throughout.

    Alexis was largely anonymous, which is hardly surprising- anyone who thinks he’ll put in maximum effort this season if he stays, is going to be disappointed.
    Ozil, Xhaka and Ramsay were particularly bad.
    The whole team were disorganised and looked unmotivated which is extremely worrying.
    Once morale goes, forget it.

    Wenger has an absolutely mammoth task turning this around. Personally I just don’t think he can do it and he must bear responsibility.
    He’s 68 and he should have walked last season which would have seen him leave on a high with most of his reputation still intact.

  • Goonermkey

    All the hugely experienced PS4 managers coming out of the woodwork again to tell us how it should be done………….do you want fries with that!!

  • jjgsol

    Thanks alexanderhenry.

    In my youth I saw games that might very well have made today’s game look like a triumph, but that will not make us feel any better.

    There has to be an explanation for it other than Liverpool were great.

    If all their goals came from failed attacks by us, that indicates a failing in our play rather than a great display by them, other than their ability to score at speed against a retreating defence.

    I have a fertile imagination and wonder whether AW did not sacrifice today’s game to give a message to some of his players.

    I am thinking of Ox, for example, in that he was put on the right, where he clearly prefers to be and put Bellerin on the left where he clearly cannot be. If he achieved nothing there, as seems to have been the case, the message is that he should do what he is told and not think things will be better elsewhere.

    Playing Sanchez, when he clearly wants to go, shows to him who is boss.

    If as I think I must have suspected would be the case, he did not try that hard, and if AW really will not sell him, could the message to him have been that he will simply not play at all this year if he is not prepared to put effort into it.

    How many players have actually been successes in subsequent teams after leaving us. Very few.

    Yes RVP won the league, but look where is now? Why would a man with as much money as he has still want to play in the Turkish league?

    Yes CF has won medals, but has he actually improved? Not really, he has struggled to be a regular in either team he went to.

    Maybe I am allowing my imagination to get out of hand, but I am struggling to find a reason for today’s debacle, so perhaps the ridiculous might be more correct than the blindingly obvious, the latter being simply that we were useless, because we are useless.

  • I watched nearly every minute, Ramsey, Koscuelny, Alexis, Belerin, Holding all tried. Xaka kept giving the ball away, Montreal was being left for dead. Oc was terrible and Welbeck sqaunfered chance after chance we could have scored first equalized at 1-0,and been only a goal behind even at 2-0 i mean literally the problem was they did exactly word for word what I said we should do and what we needed to do. We played too deep, and ozil was cut off by tueir compact 7,at tue back. Belerin on tue right meant no threat from crosses so double up on Alexis and UE got up the line looks up and No Wepbeck, no Oxlade.

    They cannot play the system. It was an implosion, I was dying watching.

    He took of Alexos, who lookwd wmvarassed, vyt tue npt starting Lacazette or Kalasonic, he’s done it twice last season at Liverpool, he’s up to some genius, I feel it. He looked horrified and disappointed vut not shocked.

    I wanted the vest line yp and the want away players peft out, he did the opposite. For a reason!

    I’m the same, its a God thing I have to be sure I must lose those I love, he loves Ox and Theo, and see’s potential in Granit as I do, as I saw in Gabby. But you cant save everyone. Let them go do a Nasri, everyone leaves for the wrong reason amd they apl get tueir silver.

    That is how we get.rid of players and test Kroenke, who rwfuses to sell a club, but wont invest in it wgile it fails? 😉

  • Ozils face, exactly what I wanted to see, Apexos vet used to it, play or bench warm for a year, you are going nowhere!

    Its bot about having the strength to continue, its about continuing when you haven’t got the strength.

    Now Arsene show me quality, you have 4 days to agree the offers I know you have and 4 days to take west ham and spurs targets, decide which RW to get, Mahrrz is playing for it. Take VVD and be done,

    I said left back before Bayern I said it as soon as gepup stage ended, Bellerin is plaging left back remember.

    IWIT – I see the grey, next week is big for both of us, linked even! I win, you win!

    Insha Allah as the Muslims say and the Catholics would agree!

    I want my box seat with my wife!

  • My post ahead of game, who we needed on to win, what we should have done and what they actualy did ri us, perfectly. I trust he knows better, because he has consistency’s, its just something I’d do, the thing that only a genius who knows what I know would do READ ON:

    If w start on the front foot and make sensible dexisons to stem country attacks we will won. Scoring first and preferably around 15 – 25 Mons in is perfect.

    Bellerin Mustarfi Koscielny Kolasanic

    Ramsey Xaka

    Welbeck ozil Alexis


    Blood Nelson (here) 65 Welbeck OFF
    Sure up Coquelin after 70 Ozil OFF
    Walcott for Alexis 80 job done unless you want embarassing

    Go ahead , double the lead by coming out swinging after the break if you can’t catch them trying to equalize in first half. Add pace and put Welbeck left Alexis central and Nelson on right to embarrass Walcott and Alex. He’ll score or make one, he’s a natural footballing genius tactics ally and has excellent distribution, occassioms don’t phase him on the pitch, I have this, only the game matters.

    Ozil for Coquelin, after 2, just accept he is aghast by some peoples lack of football over rugby.

    You counter Tue counter press of Liverpool by scoring and proving they can’t create if you counts press intge middle to last third.

    You counter their format by congesting more the midfield and filling the gap between last and middle third and threatening to counter attack. Maximum 8 passes and better to shoot off the cuff thatln turn over possession.

    They are not that good, they just foxua on ttansition througj mane and fiminio, wthout coutinho and Lellana thet wont be able to, nobody to pull the strings.

    Ozil has to ghost about and drag Henderson all over the shop.

    Theu are not that hard to beat, you just run at them.

    Stop emre, lock passes to henderson off and keep an eye on mane, fiminio can loite of you bloxk the abgles hes not winning aerial duels if kos goes forward to challenge.

    Xaka is not aloud further then the centre circle, discipline.

    Winning this game sells Coutinho, success buys our reinforcements.

    I believe.

    Like i said he needed to identify dead players, we know them, they go. If Theo wants it replace Alexis and feed Nelson his debut.

    And then do one so you may actually see a WC, hammers are desperate.

  • Try suffering that in Chelsea country is what I meant AH, sorry I thought you’d realise it was a direct respinse, my bad.

    I was in Fulham Chelsea territory after the Chelsea game alone in a toffs pub, not one of them have the balls to suffer that, that us what makes me a GOONER

  • Not as bad as 8-2 Jenls you owe me, but 10-2 over Twp legs nothing we played to win twice rather rhandamage limitation.

    This hurt different, it was the nerve of some of our personnel, indicative of mans self destructive, self serving delusion!

    The.only player I feel bad for for not being quite up to par is Danny, please go to a mid table club, you will play better, the prestige of the club is less important sonny!

  • New_User

    @Hannibal Yes, the best team won.

    @Samuel Akinsola Adebosin I hope you didn’t put any money on Arsenal win.

    @Polo If Arsenal plays this way you won’t be getting crumbs either.

    @Nitram You are right, Liverpool doesn’t have a better record than Arsenal since Sanchez joined Arsenal. But they do have Champions League football and Arsenal don’t this season and that does make a little bit of difference.

    @Josif When you throw out TH14 out of your club what do you expect?

    @Jammy It’s just not you but fans of all the clubs feel the same way that Media, F.A and referee are all biased against them. I’ve read fans of Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd all claim the same thing you are saying.

    @Jammy Maybe Ox doesn’t want to be another Theo always waiting to fulfill his “potential”. Is he really that good of a player anyway?

    @Vivek Arulnathan You are barking up the wrong tree. They will show you all kind of numbers and dazzle you with their statistic and claim you must support the Club no matter what. No negativity about the club allowed here.

    @Polo You are right Liverpool haven’t won anything in a long time, but they are trying something new if it didn’t work, Rafa Benitez, Roy Hudgson, Brendan Rodgers, Kenny Dalgish were all let go when it didn’t work and that shows ambition, but with Arsenal they have no ambition, don’t have to win just finish 4th and it’s ok. Arsenal have won 3 F.A cups in recent years, but even if they didn’t win those 3 F.A cups Wenger would still have been the manager.
    Do you actually think 10-0 loss and 1-0 loss is a same thing and it doesn’t matter.

    @Nitram Danny Murphy said if Sanchez had those options “Today” he would choose Liverpool. Not yesterday, not tomorrow but Today.

    I would have like to reply to all the comments but I have to do my laundry. Maybe some other time.

  • New User come let’s jaust, you made no points what soever. You just picked at.grammar, the foundation for you arguments are weak and you pick at small minor issues. Tue validity of Arsenal supporters opiniom of bias is valid, arguing Jose gets it in his third season is true, fergie time exists, Bournemouth get it. Chelsea cheat, so do referees and what. Pick on me I dare you!?