18 responses

  1. Bernard
    21/08/2019

    I think that the anomaly this season is attributable to Mike Dean refereeing our last game. He gave three soft yellows. Reduce that to one and the figures are less alarming.

    Reply

  2. Bambam
    21/08/2019

    Hmmmmm, Watford get 84 cards and they are wild, rollicking. Sunderland get 94 and they’re insane, kick everything that moves. Arsenal get plenty and its all pgmo’s fault. Interesting

    Reply

    • Tony Attwood
      21/08/2019

      Where do you get these ideas from?

      Reply

  3. Nitram
    21/08/2019

    As you may know Tony I’ve been doing this cards to fouls (not tackles) ratio for years. I was doing it 15 years ago and we was being stitched then, the only thing is I cant for the life of me find the tackles stats that far back, therefore cannot confirm my findings. I did however find the tackles stats for the last 5 years and did some stats comparing us to Liverpool which were on an early thread but seem more appropriate on here.

    Reproduced in full bellow:

    I’ve had a look for the stats and all I could find that included the amount of fouls was on transfermarket.com but unfortunately the statistic for fouls only start in season 2014-2015.

    Anyway I thought I’d have a look at what we have. I’ve done us and a team I’ve felt in recent seasons have seen the benefit of some lenient refereeing, Liverpool.

    These are the stats:

    ARSENAL

    Showing:

    Season, Fair Play position, points, Fouls, Our ratio, League ratio.
    2014-2015 08th, Points = 75, Fouls = 353, Ratio = 4.70, League average = 5.00
    2015-2016 01st, Points = 54, Fouls = 349, Ratio = 6.40, League average = 5.70
    2016-2017 14th, Points = 83, Fouls = 391, Ratio = 4.70, League average = 5.40
    2017-2018 12th, Points = 67, Fouls = 380, Ratio = 5.60, League average = 5.60
    2018-2019 16th, Points = 79, Fouls = 404, Ratio = 5.11, League average = 7.10

    Over the 5 seasons Arsenals ratio was a point/card every 5.2 fouls

    LIVERPOOL

    2014-2015 09th, Points = 75, Fouls = 357, Ratio = 4.70, League average = 5.00
    2015-2016 07th, Points = 67, Fouls = 420, Ratio = 6.20, League average = 5.70
    2016-2017 01st, Points = 54, Fouls = 388, Ratio = 7.10, League average = 5.40
    2017-2018 01st, Points = 49, Fouls = 332, Ratio = 6.70, League average = 5.60
    2018-2019 01st, Points = 41, Fouls = 313, Ratio = 7.60, League average = 7.10

    Over the 5 seasons Liverpools ratio was a point/card every 6.3 fouls.

    The average for the league was a point/card every 5.3 fouls.

    Points awarded as follows:

    1 x Y = 1 Point
    2 x y = 2 Points
    1 x R = 2 Points
    1 x Y + 1 x R = 3 Points

    So what do I draw from this ?

    Well firstly it seems overall referees are more strict full stop, with an average card per foul ratio of 5.3 where as back when I used to do this regularly it was around 7.7.

    Secondly it seems our ratio of 5.2 is even worse than it used to be at around 5.5.

    But at least we are now nearer the average which is something anyway, and I must say a bit of a surprise.

    But being average, considering how weak and feeble, with no fight or aggression, we are supposed to be, is still not great. But, it could be worse.

    As I thought, Liverpool are treated quite leniently, there average being a card every 6.3 fouls.

    That might not seem much but that is around 15% more lenient than us, or put another way, 15 metres in a 100 Metre sprint. That’s a long way.

    Liverpool, in 4 of the 5 seasons (the last 4 to be precise) have been treated better than average.

    Arsenal have been treated worse than average in 4 of the last 5 seasons.
    Conclusion.

    We are still treated harshly by the referees being worse than average, but I have to admit it’s not as bad as I thought or indeed it used to be.

    NB:
    Also MickHazels comment regarded WHEN the cards are issued is also relevant but would take hours and hours of work. Hours that I just haven’t got.

    ————–

    Now they are stats comparing the cards to fouls ration where as Tony is doing cards to tackles.

    Now I’ll be honest, I actually think that is better as it exposes even more vividly just how harshly our tackling is treated, which might explain why our players are often reluctant to ‘get stuck in’ because even being the bunch of wimps we are doesn’t seem to stop the refs awarding fouls and cards against us.

    Just imaging what would happen if at Anfield this weekend we decided to ‘get in their faces’ ?

    We’d be lucky to end up with half a team on the pitch.

    Reply

  4. Nitram
    21/08/2019

    I cant find the FOULS or tackles stats for any more than the last 5 years.

    Reply

  5. DEW
    21/08/2019

    It is a great post. I mentioned exactly same thing on comment section a couple of days before on your media bias post. The way arsenal was yellow carded while others got a pass for similar tackles is to be alarmed with. We should not allow this to continue. It is not an easy matter. The psychological influece is also dangerous. Because you don’t know what is yellow card or not. I even developed a sense that there is yellow card for every tackle. All we are asking is for them to be fair. By the way the referee for next Liverpool game is decent referee. He is one of the top unbiased referee in PL. The downside of this world is that may be he is discouraged and disliked by the other side for being fair.

    LONG LIVE VAR! VAR the saviour of football!

    Reply

  6. Drew
    21/08/2019

    To add something small. Aubermayang was booked for standing too close to a free kick last week, at worst I think the referee should have had a quiet word to say ‘do not do that again,’ or something similar. Drew

    Reply

  7. Mark Mywords
    21/08/2019

    “We would expect perhaps that the club that committed the most tackles would get the most yellow cards, and that clubs further down the league would have less skillful players and so get more yellow cards that way. They would also be defending more, and so again, get more yellows per game.”

    Too many assumptions, Tony. You’re basing your entire analysis on things that may or may not be the case.

    Reply

  8. Nitram
    21/08/2019

    Mark Mywords

    I think you’ll find that the statistics are facts.

    To try and justify why we should or shouldn’t get these statistics or facts, can only be done using ‘assumptions’ because we don’ t know why we get these statistics.

    But as I say the basis of the article is in facts.

    It is a FACT we get more yellows per tackle than Liverpool.

    It is a FACT we get more yellows per foul than Liverpool.

    The only assumptions being made are as to why.

    Perhaps you can tell us why ? No assumptions mind 😉

    Reply

  9. Laos gooner
    21/08/2019

    Aubameyang was booked so Mike Dean did not have to point out that Burnley were cheating by moving the ball forwards 5 yards. Just the sort of thing that dear Sean should draw the refs attention to so it can be removed from the game.

    Reply

  10. Mikey
    21/08/2019

    @ DEW

    The point you made about ‘psychological influence’ is one that I firmly believe cannot be overstated.

    If you take the match which cost us 50 undefeated as an example. Man U under Riley’s watch knew that they were going to be cut a huge amount of slack and approached the game accordingly. That must have given them great confidence and our players were subjected to some awful assaults which went unpunished, is there any wonder they were put off their game.

    I think it was also the case that whilst Fergie had refs running scared of him Man U were always able to approach matches knowing they had an edge in that regard. Similarly their opponents were on the back foot from the kick off. When one team knows it can go into tackles ‘over zealously’ whilst their opponents fear getting a card for winning a 50/50 the pitch is already slanted.

    Reply

  11. Nitram
    21/08/2019

    Mindy and Dew

    I’ve talked about the psychology effect as well many times.

    The problem is it’s impossible to prove. How can you know what’s going on in somebody’s head ?

    Nevertheless I believe how we are refereed must influence how a player approaches a game.

    Reply

  12. Nitram
    21/08/2019

    Sorry Mikey

    Effin spell check

    Reply

  13. Andy
    21/08/2019

    Of course it might be that other clubs are more savvy about their fouling and Arsenal a bit naive.

    Reply

  14. Django
    21/08/2019

    I was at the game on Saturday and the crowd booed when mike dean’s name was announced. That’s like cursing out the waiter before your meal is served. You think he’s going to view us fairly or favourably, they are human and as petty as the rest of us. We’ve been targeted ever since Wenger’s unfavourable comments concerning referees a decade ago.

    Don’t get me started on points shaving and how rigged the game is!

    Reply

  15. Gord
    21/08/2019

    OT: Other news.

    One of many snippets about Eddie Nketiah scoring at Leeds, had this:

    EFL rules stipulate that clubs are only allowed to name five loan players in a matchday squad, and Clarke appears to be the fall guy of late.

    Just one of many EFL rules I wasn’t aware of.

    There was news at Arsenal.com, that Jordan Nobbs is close to coming back.

    Still a bummer that Danielle Carter did her ACL again.

    Reply

  16. Menace
    22/08/2019

    Cards are not just for tackles but several are given for dissent and kicking the ball away, not sufficient distance to please the official and off course for wearing the wrong shirt.

    The corrupt will not be hindered by the Stockley park blind mice. In fact they will be assisted in their process of decision making.

    Reply

  17. John Thursfield
    22/08/2019

    Whilst I in general agree with you I read this the other day and it might address some of the issues you covered.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49371002

    It may suggest why Arsenal get so many bookings though it doesn’t say why Manchester City don’t.

    Reply

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