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Why the banks support Liverpool & don’t like Arsenal

In an unexpected (by me at least) development the bank RBS (which owns Nat West) sneaked out a statement while I was on holiday, explaining why it keeps on lending money to Liverpool – and why it wants to do it more and more.

These wonderful and exciting people said, “In our view and that of the executive management of the club, it is financially healthy and able to service comfortably its debt obligations from cash flow generated by its playing and commercial activities. It is in our commercial interest to support the club.”

So to be quite clear on this the bank has said, no matter how counter productive it is for the club to be massively in debt, and to have taken the money that was given for the new stadium and used it instead to arrange the buy out of the club by the Americans, the bank approves. The loan is great news for the bank, and they would like more of it. There is no way they are going to stop.

The fact is that Liverpool Insolvency pay the bank £36.5m each year every year and has no chance of paying the money it borrowed back to the bank. They can just about manage the interest, nothing more.

Likewise they also have limited chance of going bust in the eyes of the bank because there will always be other American sports owners, not to mention oil billionaires wanting to take the club over. And there are a bunch of people who want to go to football matches at Liverpool.

But there is an even stronger back up for the bank – the clubs’ owners have now put up guarantees to the effect that they will pay up on the club’s debt if the club were to go bust.

In terms of Liverpool going bust there are a couple of ways this could happen.

First, they could do a Leeds – paying more and more money for players, putting them on ever higher salaries, and endlessly upping the cost of running the club. The problem with this strategy is that if ever the money runs out then the club is in trouble.

I’ve no idea what would happen if Liverpool didn’t get into the Champs League for a couple of years (remember they didn’t about 3 or 4 years ago – Everton took their place). When this happened they got UEFA to change the rules at the last second, and so were given a spot – maybe they can rely on that again, but I am not sure.

It is possible for any big club not to get in to the Champs League for a year or two. Milan didn’t last year, Bayern Munich have missed out on occasion, and even the big two in Spain have had their off years.

So it is possible that a downturn for Liverpool could leave to a big enough drop in income to make it hard to pay back this year’s debt interest.

Second, the owners could find that they are called upon to use their wealth in other areas of their business. If one of the other franchises that they hold went down, then they could find themselves unable to guarantee the £350m debt, and the bank would not like that.

The situation is different at West Iceland United where the bank owns the club and the bank has gone bust. What the bank is trying to do is avoid being ordered by the courts to pay the money it owes to its creditors because that would mean having to arrange a quick sale of the club – and that would bring in a much lower level of money. An announcement on the next steps is expected any time now.

As for Arsenal – there is no debt to be rearranged. It is there, and fixed and working its way through, just like the mortgage on your house (if you have a mortgage that is. And a house).

Now you might think this is excellent news – Arsenal have been prudent, and although they have taken a risk with the apartments at Highbury and the business premises they bought up – they have structured their assets in such a way as to be able to handle the delay in income.

But from a banking point of view, this is a disaster. The banks love Liverpool because, as they say, Liverpool is good news for the banks. Same for Manchester IOU although they are much closer to the edge than Liverpool. But Arsenal are of no interest because Arsenal are not under the thumb of the banks. The mortgage is an agreement which is running its course and will ultimately be paid off.

So the banks support big clubs in debt, and indeed have a vested interest in football in debt. They will keep football in debt as long as they possibly can – and in this regard they are aided by the FA, the EPL, UEFA and the eternally corrupt FIFA. If any of these organisations had the interest of football at heart they would remove the power of the bankers and sort out football finances. The fact that they fail to says it all really.

There is some movement on the financial front – and you may have noticed a stream of little clubs getting 10 or more points penalties for financial problems – but this is a matter that is kept in the realm of the little clubs. The notion of controlling the finances of the bigger clubs seems way beyond the reach of the FA etc, and for this the bankers are eternally grateful.

(c) Tony Attwood 2009

44 comments to Why the banks support Liverpool & don’t like Arsenal

  • Jazbo

    Good piece of reporting mate, well done, it opens the eyes to the darker side of football finance being conducted by the banks.

    It also makes us aware just how well the financing for our stadium was constructed.

  • Surinder

    I have been a fan all my life, wenger has been our most successful manager we ever had. Yes we not won anything for four years. We are fiancial secure we should buy.Can i say we must trust the Wenger,And i belive he will make a couple of buys.

  • kurt

    hey tony..

    quite an insight into the financial side of football… you’re one of the few places where i can find stuff like this, besides honest opinions about the state of arsenal…

    one question though…while a liverpool will always be able to find an investor willing to bail out some of the debt, why cant a club like newcastle, for all its past history, get itself out of the mud? they havent found a really interested buyer and i fear that a great club like that will soon plunge into the depths of the lower divisions…
    newcastle were a treat to watch, in bits and pieces, until big sam took over…now’re they just lost…

  • billi_the_kid

    The Valencia game confirmed some issued that I have worried about for a while now. We need strengthening at the back and in the midfield.
    We tried to play high back four and we were caught out on numerous occasions. This also happened in the game with Rangers and we were lucky not to concede any goal because of it. It demonstrated a huge lack of experience and awareness.
    Wenger, please we need to address this problem before the season begins.

  • tony

    i think this is a really excellent piece as usual. ive been reading ur blog quite often and i must say i agree with u most of the time. i want to ask y u think we havent won a trophy for four years and if u had any criticism of wenger, what would it be? as much i hate blogs who are anti wenger i also wouldn’t want one which offers complete backing for our manager irrespective of the situation we find ourselves in because im yet to read an article of yours that is critical of wenger . do you think he was wrong to rest arshavin in the fa cup semi final? do u think he is wrong to play so many players out of position? do u think he was right to sell viera? do u think that all players over 30 yrs of age should be given a one year rolling contract no matter how good and loyal they r? the players r asked to be loyal to the club should the club not show more loyalty to the plyers? i can go on and on but ill leave u to answer these ones

  • Michael the Goon.

    Hi Tony.The most sensible website around.It would be so nice to see our media publish articles like your one on Football fiances,but they would not as it is pro Arsenal.
    Why is it,that when the Banks go tits up we all complain,but when football clubs run in to huge debt we say”go and spend.
    Will Sky give each club another 35m next time around.No way.There are 10 teams in the premier league that the average viewer will not watch.How many people will tune into Stoke v Bolton?.
    Finally, the Champions League this year will be the worse league format ever.UEFA have allowed some very,very poor teams into the group stages by seeding us and others.This will bring a European League closer.You will see so many dead ties,and very low attendances.

  • Surinder

    granted it is pre season and changes were made but these will be the players we hav to fall back on when injuries and suspensions inevitably play their part this season and i think the issue being raised here is that the same frailties and mistakes are their for all to see…the 2nd goal we conceded was the type of goal we were scoring 4/5 years ago every game but that is a far cry from the way we play now as we dont hav players like henry,pires,ljungberg,vieira etc that can run in behind leaving opposition in their wake..our build up now is much more ponderous and appears to be a sort of pass the opposition into a dizzy state and hope a gap appears (which wont against quality defenses) and their is no element of surprise or pace to our attacks and i think we hav become predictable to utd,chels and pool who simply employ a blanket defense
    we need an aggresive pacy striker because RvP.edu,bendtner,nasri,deni,diaby dont possess the speed we need to hurt teams at our long mourned and long forgotten counter attacking raids
    if wer honest wit ourselves wev average goalkeepers, quality fullbacks wit backups, no sure or proven CB partnership, definate questions in CM no matter who u hope has ‘evolved’ since last year and song will be away in jan anyway, injured and injury prone widemen wit walcot still lookin far from the finished article and frontmen that are good in front of goal but none of home (maybe vela) have the pace or guile to get in behind a def.we will undoubtebly pass and move the ball from left to right,corner flag to corner flag with ridiculous repetition and look good in possesion but we dont hav that little extra to hav defs lookin over their shoulders that puts a doubt in defenders minds, we will once again concede goals to easily whilst havin to construct the perfect goal in order to break down blanket defense strategies….forecast; frustration mixed with hints of promise and pretty play for the future, shur wer used to that and obviously some of you hav become comfortable wit it
    everton will expose alot next sat as will injuries to cesc,RvP,arshavin or gallas if they wer to happen….oh i forgot shur wev got diaby,eboue and sylvestre to step in wer safe

  • billi_the_kid

    come on all we have done is saying since 2005 that next season will be ours and we still do and adam sayys another 5 years are u kidding me why look into the future when we cant win anything at the moment. Jay why are you talking about in the passed it was a dream to finish in the top 4 its an embarassment for arsenal not to finish in the top 4. Wenger thinks only about himself and not the fans we see so many clubs buying stars and all arsenal fans can do is just imagine them play for arsenal whe cant we have an star that can help us out immediatly and not a youngster who will after 4 seasons

  • typeface

    Tony,

    excellent piece of writing.

    Can you execute your previous approach of deleting moronic posts which go off topic in boring rants against our club?

    Thank you very much.

  • billi_the_kid

    typeface; just because we are all arsenal that doesnt mean we all agree all the time, wenger is a very stubborn man more interested in making money for the club at the moment than winning tropies and until that changes the trend were seeing will continue. we got 40 odd million for bayor and kolo and what have we done with it?……….NOTHING.

  • billi_the_kid

    plus i will tell you why I am losing faith in AW (someone whom I believe has in the past been responsible for more success at this club, then any manager in our history, on a par with Herbert Chapman). If he doesn’t deliver this season, then he must go. I can’t see this team delivering. First he asks us to be patient, but he won’t be able to keep his top players patient. If we don’t win anything this season, Fabregas and Arshavin are gone. We have been patient for 5 years. Second, he gets cross and calls the fans disrespectful after last years meet and greet, but he doesn’t really show respect to the fans. It is not right to promise that he will strengthen the squad with three experienced players and not deliver that. Thirdly, it is not fair to say that no one will be leaving and his priority is to keep the team together only to have Gilberto, Hleb, Flamini, Toure and Adebayor and Diarra leave. In essence we are not strengthening if we replace like for like. Toure has gone, so Vermaelen has come in. Big deal. That is not strengtheneing, it is replacing. Fourthly it is also nonsense to wait until the last minute of the transfer window to maybe get what ever is on offer at that moment. Our fans deserve better. Besides our season might be over by the 31st of August this year. We may be out of the champions league by then and lose to Man U and Man City and Everton. We should strengthen before, like he said he would so the new guys would hit the track running. Finally I don’t see why AFC fans should pay premium prices, to see players whom are clearly not premium, develop i.e.Walcott, Denilson, Song and Bendtner (only to leave later on). I rate Denilson and Bendtner for the future, but should there development come at a cost to the Club? We pay highest prices, so we should have the best players. We are getting an inferior product. .

  • LRV

    Tony, this ranters have enough sites to rant; ours is not a ranting site; send them right back to their ranting site. Let them know that we stick to topic here.

    BACK TO TOPIC:
    Too many times the irresponsibility of the banks have led to serious consequences, the present recession is a case in point. Soon enough, football will be ruined like other businesses are being ruined in this recession. It is not a guarantee that buyers will always be found, look at Newcastle. The football authorities are diabolically corrupt; hence their inability to act. Let’s just wait and see what happens. The bubble will surely burst. I just hope that football is not ruined beyond expectation.

  • billi_the_kid

    Are Arsenal having problems paying the mortgage for the Emerates. Has anyone seen the books. Im really interested in knowing. There seems to be a new trend developing amongst some fans who appear to be more concerned with the profit the club makes rather than silverware accumulated. I suppose its no longr a working class sport. To many prawn sallad supporters.

  • Armin Medic

    Interesting comparison, Liverpool and Newcastle. But, there are teams and “the teams”, which FA, UEFA and banks of course treat different.
    I will again mention Bosnian football, which is by the way very corrupted (thats why bosnians like Ibrahimovic play for Sweden or someone else, but that’s other part of story) and its no secret to anyone.
    In season 91 (last prewar one) one of teams which was “famous” and “glorious” was supposed to be relegated. They finished season as 17th so together with 18th had to be relegated, and two teams from lower league had to get in. But, that didn’t happen. On meeting of National Football Association they decide in “next” season league should be expanded on 19 teams. If its not sad it would be funny, because they didn’t even try to hide, and even fool could notice craziness in having 19 teams, so one was free every game week.
    Point is that Bosnian Football Association is known as corrupted and anyone point with finger in them, and difference between them and FA is only because FA know how to hide their dirty job. But longer this saga goes seams to me that banks and FA or UEFA losing even that ability and things becoming more and more transparent.

  • paul

    OH MY GOD
    some1 just said lets judge wenger at the end of the season which is impossible cos when we do you all say its a new season and ‘put ur money on us this season’, ‘our young players have come on tenfold for the experience’ and ‘trust in arsene’
    right wel lets judge him on last season;
    let gilberto leave for a joke 1m when hes still a brazilian international
    nearly lost out on arshavin only reason deal went through was becos the player flew to london on deadline day
    team selection questionable at best of times
    ‘rested’ arshavin in fa cup semi vs chelsea even tho hed only played 10 games up to then and also rested nasri in a blatant display of misplaced arrogance
    fell badly to utd in champs league semi final which lacked guts aswel as pride and belief
    learned nothing fron chelsea fa cup game a month previous and took another whalloping in last PL home game to round off a hugely dissapointing season which had promised so much….well thats if ur to believe everything he said last aug after no signings of note ‘i believe in this team and believe we hav the quality’,myeah we do but wev no winners or leaders or individuals wit an edge to them

  • walter

    Yes AW is concerned about the books and he is right. When the Oilbarons and Abramovitsj lose intrest in their clubs they are finished. The last thing I would is to see the day Arsenal has no more money and has to drop down.
    And maybe AW is holding some money in the club because the income of all the clubs will go down very strong next season. The financial crisis will mean that people will buy lesser shirts, spend less money in the stadiums, and so on. We will have the cash to coop with that. Will the others also ?
    For the way AW is handling the situation I’m thankfull and if you are desperate for silverware… there are other clubs to support.
    I never supported Arsenal for the silverware, I support them for who they are.

  • billi_the_kid

    walter, im sorry thats just a feeble comment – i mean how long have people been saying that whent they get bored they’ll leave, look at pool, Utd, they are able to re-finance wheras us- what a joke we have become – 4th and even that is now not guaranteed

  • Surinder

    You might also want to look at Liverpool. A club that once dominated English foortball. Look at the money they’ve spent. The big names coming and going every season. The manager’s coming and going. Now the club’s owned by Americans and in debt. They haven’t won the Premier League ever. They last won a league title in 1990 – nearly twenty years ago. Their last proper cup win was the 2006 FA Cup I believe, only a year more recent than ours. Buying ’stars’ hasn’t done it for them so far. Yes, like most Gooner’s I think we need some strong defensive support but Arsene himself has also said that. Up the Arsenal! Bring on the new season!

  • Surinder

    the moaner mr doom and gloom. we beat athletico madrid.who beat liverpool. we lost to valencia big deal pre season friendly. it doesnt mean anything. you have written us off before the start of the season. i know you was on the vast majority of people here bandswagon that ” arshavin isnt a proven player” even before he set foot in the uk. guess your still wiping egg off your face from last seasons what was it like 12 games 7 goals 6 assits in something baring in mind he had no pre season. lmao. you have probably written off vermelen because he isnt 6ft 10. grow up. your boring and dull and negative. are you really a fan?

  • Surinder

    It seems clear that Chamakh is a priority for Wenger as he is more of an out and out target man then any of the players Wenger has at his disposal.

    Playing Bendtner out of position on the flank is a clear indication that he doesn’t see him as good enough to fill the lone striker role (as Adebayor often did, sometimes supported to such great effect by Hleb two seasons ago) and will be sacrficed as a sub or ‘impact’ player once the season (proper) begins.

    I reckon if we get Chamakh he’ll be supported by Arshavin on the left and RvP on the right (this is where he plays for Holland after all). Walcott and Nasri can fill in on the wings as appropriate (assuming that they’re fit and can manage to play more than half a dozen games this season). Ditto Rosicky.

    It’s clear we still need some steel in midfield and although we can remain hopeful that Song can step up, it’s a big ‘if’. Denilson is clearly a utility back up player in the mould of Grimandi or Remi Garde, so let’s manage the expectation here. Wenger needs to spend £5m on Matuidi and make do for now or splash some cash on a proven ball winner.

    We also need a presence at the back to partner Gallas – ideally someone over 6 foot. Fulham might let Brede go for around £12m, but that’s a lot for a Premiership new boy. I’d persist with Djourou and snap up Distin for £2m as cover.

    And whilst we’re at it, let Eboue go to Italy, buy another right back and use Silvestre as a make weight in the Chamakh deal.

    So that’s a ‘flexibe’ 4-3-3 (like Barca) that’s a work in progress. Interesting that both Man Utd and Chelsea have seemingly reverted to a more traditional 4-4-2.

    We’re gonna need good seasons from Arshavin, RvP and Cesc to secure fourth this season. Can’t see where the goals are gonna come from myself…

  • Adam Smith

    billi-the-kid.

    Rule one is to stay on topic.

    Rule two, is to have your own ideas and not just copy and paste from other sites.

    Do us all a favour and just go away.

  • LRV

    billi_the_kid: Before you come here to rant, please look at the top and read what it says. We here DO NOT support Arsenal just for trophies; we DO support Arsenal Footbal Club, Arsene Wenger and the team unconditionally. Do we want our club to win trophies? YES! Are we prepared to berate and denegrate them if they don’t? NO! Are we glory hunters? NO, WE DEFINITELY ARE NOT! So sir, if you don’t mind, we do not erode the confidence of our own team; WE SUPPORT them to enhance their confidence.

    I do not mean to be rude to you sir, but I have to ask you: How many times in the last five years have you had performance evaluations at work? Were you rated EXCELLENT every time? How come you did not clubber yourself each time you were not given an excellent rating? Isn’t it true that a true supporter loves and supports his club, WIN, LOSE OR DRAW? Go look at fans of all the clubs who have faced relegation. They always go on supporting their club and team come-what-maye. Please learn from them sir. We love Arsenal as a club. I suggest you either do the same or do whatever else makes you happy.

  • Armin Medic

    I’m really trying to understand what is trick with “clinched spots” on table, don’t we all watch and enjoy football becase its beutifull unpredictable game, in which nothing is granted.
    Lets try to find out is it sport in which you compete in playing or spending? If its about spending lets call it AUCTION and skip risking injuries on field. Lets make collection of players and make some place like ZOO we will keep them. And on end of every year we ll decide winner by counting how much money they spend to renew their zoo.
    Or we may make fair in which we ll have exhibition and all show our “pets” so one who have most expensive win.

  • Marc

    That RBS were willing to extend the £350 million loan was of no surprise to me once they managed to get guarantees from the American owners. It makes sense for the banks from a business point of view, it is very similar to a credit card company. They have 2 customers 1 pays off his balance every month in full, the other pays a percentage and increases his balance every month, each month paying more and more interest. Which customer do they make more money from?

    What I struggle to understand is the long term situation. Liverpool FC are making about £10 million pounds a year profit, the holding company is making interest payments of £45 million a year. This means that each year Kop Holdings needs to borrow another £35 million to cover the interest payments, they then have to pay interest on this amount as well. This means that in 10 years Liverpool will owe £700 million unless they can start to reduce the capital amount owed. This is of course without a new stadium that would give them the increased revenue to repay the loan and does not include the huge sums for transfers that “Mad Rant Rafa” demands every year.

    The only way out I can see is for a super rich owner to buy the club from the Americans but this is not as straight forward as you would think. The owners will want to make a profit, lets say £50 million each. So a buyer would need to pay £450 million for the club plus any accrued interest for the every spiraling loans and then stump up the money for the new stadium. Are Liverpool FC a seriously attractive financial investment when they will cost £800 million plus?

  • It is interesting that most (not all, but most) people who argue against Wenger don’t do so while obeying the basic rules of debate…

    a) Put forward a reasoned argument rather than just a statement
    b) Respond to other people’s reasoned arguments and then counter those with further reasoned logic
    c) Have their own ideas.

    Here’s Billy the Kid earlier today on this site…

    i will tell you why I am losing faith in AW (someone whom I believe has in the past been responsible for more success at this club, then any manager in our history, on a par with Herbert Chapman).

    And here is BokGunner on another site somewhat earlier.

    I will tell you why I am losing faith in AW (someone whom I believe has in the past been responsible for more success at this club, then any manager in our history, on a par with Herbert Chapman).

    You might notice a few similarities – in that the words are the same.

    Here’s a relaying of the rules for our discussions…

    1: No plagiarism (all plagiarists are banned from the site)
    2: Reasoned argument only
    3: Stay on topic please – or at least if going off topic explain why it is so important to do so just now.

    Sorry it took me a while to see this – it is my first day back at work and I was in a meeting all morning.

    Tony

  • Faron

    So basically What we’re saying here is, No matter how bad Liverpools and Manures Finances get, their always gonna get bailed out.

  • LRV

    @ Faron: It would seem so for now. But seriously, though, as Marc pointed out up there, it cannot go on for ever.

  • FunGunner

    Nice article again, Tony. And yesterday’s was very original and intriguing, too.

    Very good post, Armin Medic – made me laugh, as well!

  • FunGunner

    @ Faron

    And their finances will be squeezed more and more as they pay ever-greater amounts in interest.

  • Marc

    Faron – The banks will continue to support ManU and Liverpool while a) they are earning from them b) the clubs are in a position to continue servicing the debts i.e. not about to go bust. Once the banks feel threatened they will pull out.

  • Faron

    I’m glad that The Arsenal Arn’t going down the same path as these two. But i find i difficult to understand why the likes of Leeds and Luton get punished quite quickly and Manure and The thieves are getting away with it. It’s a load of bollocks.

    Some of these so called fans (Youve got me saying it now Marc) need to understand that we can’t spend willy nilly on players (plus we dont need to really.

  • walter

    LRV said: “Isn’t it true that a true supporter loves and supports his club, WIN, LOSE OR DRAW?”

    That is excatly what is is all about in my opinion.

    Like in the song Gunners in arms it says:

    “And if defeat hurts us so bad
    on a rare and seldom day
    We will not desert you
    our Gunners in arms”

    You can be sure that when we loose I feel very down (even in a friendly …) but I put on the music, start singing the song and the blues start to go.

  • Surinder

    a good first half in the charity shield has left me wondering something. does anyone think any of our back five would get into the chelsea or united side? i think evra and cole( hate to say that) are better then clichy. terry,alex,carvalho,evans,ferd,vidic are all better then our centre halfs (verma excluded as no idea yet). sagna maybe could get in at right back and almunia is not a van der sar or cech. wenger admitted this was the sole reason we didnt compete last year yet have we actually strengthed it? verma is a nice, quick, ball playing centre half but not what we needed. wheres the beast to dominate players, where our modern day sol campbell. wingers and attackers i think we have abundances of riches but at the back i am very concerned. if wenger looks at our back five and sees a unit who are as good as the top sides then he truly will be the cause of problems.

  • Armin Medic

    Its now off the topic but, I have to say about conclusion Surinder brought. It always depend would they fit or would not. But once again, its not FIFA manger game, or Fantasy Football, its real football where players are chosen by team because their compatibility to team strategy.
    Maybe it may sound you silly but will Carvalho, Terry or Vidic have place in our team?
    Far away they aren’t world, top class, players, but unlike computer games, every player doesn’t fit every team.
    PS
    I am really not impressed by yesterday show of Moaners and Chavski

  • I do believe that the majority of regular readers of the site do prefer it if the discussion stays on topic other than in exceptional circumstances. So we’ll move back to that from tomorrow.

    If you want to start a new topic and you feel this is the site to do it on, that’s fine. Send me in your article and as long as it is in keeping with the general theme of the site, and is cogently argued, then I’ll run it.

    To allow a free for all destroys the overall context of the arguments – and there are thousands of other blogs that seem quite happy to have totally off topic commentaries.

    Hope that’s ok with most readers – it is the feeling I get of what is wanted.

    Tony

  • shotta-gunna

    Welcome back Tony. I missed you while you were out and failed to discover your return until four days later.

    Spot on about the Banks. But they cannot keep Liverpool in business forever. I think it was Marc who mentioned that over time, because Pool is generating insufficient money to cover interest, even with the Champions League, the debt grows exponentially as the unpaid interest must capitalized.

    On your solution to the off-topic ranters; I rather like it when you expose them as plagiarists by showing word for word exactly similar postings on other websites under different “pen” names.

    But “billi-the kid” (aka Bop), like his fabled name-sake of the American West, will soon meet somebody faster on the draw. LOL!

  • tony

    tony attwood i am tony too. and i asked u some questions earlier. i would really like it if u responded to them.

  • tony

    u need to realise that wenger is human and he makes mistakes too. to say u support the lord wenger in all he does seems to me that ur views are not objective. cos ur aim is to support him in all he does. this is not a political campaign. its football and we need to have an honest discussion. we shouldn’t just support blindly. i love wenger and i do not for 1sec wish that he is sacked because to keep this team in the top 4 on no budget at all is remarkable. no budget because as it stands we have made profits in our transfer dealings since 2005. but tony attwood please give us some unbaised views.

  • pig

    liverpool and manu are both at the thin end of the wedge as far as finances go. its out in the open, now more than ever, and they are both going to have to tighten their belts.

    the crazy spending each year will most definitely have to come to an end. and both of these clubs are transfer junkies. they haven’t had the foresight that we have and soon they will be clucking like turkeys because the 70 or 80 million they wanted to spend isn’t available.

    they will be left with teams of aging players with long contracts and high wages. their drought of silverware will make these last few years seem like a drop in the ocean.

  • tony

    tony attwood, do u think it was right to refuse the great bobby pires a 2yr contract because he was over 30 only to buy silvestre a fdew yrs later and offer him a yr contract? do u think its right that we sell senderos and keep this x united player?

  • IndianGooner

    Tony,
    The only thing Banks worry about is the Interest of the Debt. They’ll support Pool and ManU because these clubs are paying Interests at Higher rate than us. But as Marc said, it is not gonna continue for ever. The Banks will stop supporting the moment Interests stop coming or when the banks realize that the business is not generating enough income.

    Sorry for going off topic. I was away this weekend and didnt have much access to internet. So I couldnt watch the match but made sure to check the score as and when the match got over. I became sad when I saw the score. Not because we lost but because the ranters and the doom and gloom brigade would be active on the internet for days to come. I’ve stopped visiting lots of other blogs which just cares about the trophies and not the Club. So tony, I’ve a small request to you, Please block the negative comments unless it abides by the rules. I like many others on don’t want to read such negative comments. It breaks the rhythm and the mood. Sorry for the small rant against the ranters..

  • I loved Pires beyond all players, but in hindsight selling him was an excellent move, since he was injured for much of the following season.

    I have never minded who we buy players from – I watched Pat Jennings for years, and saw the club managed by Terry Neil.

    Silvestre, I suspect, has been brought in on a long term deal rather like Grimandi and Garde – I suspect he will either join the coaching staff or be a scout.

    And as for Senderos – I have not been completely convinced by his consistency – he may be ok in the longer run, but I am not sure, so would not be surprised if he went.

  • Armin Medic

    Tony you really know how to give sense to things, Silvestre experience is something really needed for coaching staff or scouts. And if you see all big games Frenchman have in his pocket, you really see how good idea is to have him around…

    When you look at whole thing about old players and should they be sold or not we always have to look at the other side of medal. If we kept Pires, who is one of my favorite players ever, would we have space for youngsters who grew up and became what they are now ?

  • tony

    my point is for those players who have been loyal to the club, the club has to show some loyalty back. especially if they can still perform and pires has shown that he can still do that even at age 36. what i find troubling is how an arsenal legend like bobby was refused a 2yr contract only for wenger to buy silvestre a few yrs later and offer him a 2yr contract when he was over thirty yrs of age. we all know that was the worst signing by wenger last summer.