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The homegrown and non-homegrown after the transfer deals

Untold Arsenal on Twitter @UntoldArsenal

By Walter Broeckx

When all the dust will be settled of the last day of the transfer window our team should look something like the names I will give you below.

Because of the squad rules it is important to know how many homegrown and non homegrown players we have on our books. So I tried to make up a list of what we have based on what the media has been saying  just after the closing of the transfer market.

Non homegrown

  1. Abou Diaby
  2. Bacary Sagna
  3. Per Mertesacker
  4. Thomas Vermaelen
  5. Laurent Koscielny
  6. Tomas Rosicky
  7. Robin van Persie
  8. Chu Young Park
  9. Andre Santos
  10. Sebastien Squillaci
  11. Lukasz Fabianski
  12. Andrey Arshavin
  13. Gervinho
  14. Marouane Chamakh
  15. Yosi Benayoun
  16. Mikel Arteta
  17. Manuel Almunia

Home grown

  1. Theo Walcott
  2. Alex Song
  3. Johan Djourou
  4. Vito Mannone
  5. Wojciech Szczesny
  6. Kieran Gibbs

Under21 Non-homegrown No need to list

  1. Ryo Myiaichi

Under 21 Homegrown No need to list

  1. Aaron Ramsey
  2. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
  3. Jack Wilshere
  4. Carl Jenkinson
  5. Emmanuel Frimpong
  6. Craig Eastmond

If I missed someone or put someone in the wrong list please let us know. It is late over here and well it was a long day.

Just noticed I gave Benayoun his lucky number in this list. Great.

Now the question is : are we within the rules with his squad?

—————–

Transfers: The Evening That Was: Deadline Day wrapped up

Women’s Football: Gentlemen, you owe the Ladies an apology

Untold Ref Reviews: Liverpool v Bolton

Untold Media Watch: The Daily Mail

35 comments to The homegrown and non-homegrown after the transfer deals

  • I think last season the clubs actually listed every single young player on their books in the under 21 section – Arsenal had about 55 such players. But to restrict it to players who might well make an impact this season I would add

    Francis Coquelin
    Ignasi Miquel
    Benik Afobe

  • 0neArsenal

    I believe Wojciech Szczesny will still be categorised in Under21’s even he was 21 this April..
    Rest all is fine..

  • Cape Gooner

    If 2 of the Under 21 Homegrown have been registered for 3 entire seasons or 36 months to an English or Welsh club, then they can form part of the 25.

    Although under 21s can play without being registered, there is no rule to say you cannot register them.

  • 0neArsenal

    even though**

    Rule – Clubs will be able to supplement their squads with unlimited additional players under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences.

  • Jon

    I have a question: What’s going on with Lansbury??? I watched the under-21’s last night and he was quite, quite incredible. Any ideas as to why on earth we would let such a promising, homegrown CM go on loan to Allerdyce in the final year of his contract? Please don’t tell me it’s what it looks like and we’re going to sell him…

  • skwam

    we happen to have a player called jack wilshire

  • Gooneraside

    Many thanks, Walter, for the work which I tried to assign to Tony. *slaps own wrists* 🙂

    It seems we’re still well within the limit and will stay so IF (big if) we need to buy again mid-term.

    It would be nice to be able to answer you, Jon. Yes, he’s played well many times but who knows everything?

  • Jon

    @skwam I don’t see why Jack is an excuse to sell Lansbury. They played together in a double winning side! why can’t we keep them both? They already know each other and how to play together. So we have one creative midfielder who can control a game and pass, what’s wrong with having two?? Plus Lansbury gets forward to score in the box, something we have clearly been missing. So again, why??

  • skwam

    maybe to give him regular playing time to prep him for 1st team football, negotiations for a new contract would start this side of xmas, his perfomances will matter. the number of players that arsenal released who we thought would be promoted and the sell of JET and others without a run in the 1st team for me signalled a shift away from giving kids prolonged opportunities….scouting for kids will continue but i think arsenal will aim to bring in the most talented even if they cost little extra…Barca is a good starting point

  • Lansbury’s performance was the first time he has really delivered to his potential. Last season, as I recall without looking it up, Lansbury was at Norwich and in the latter part of the season didn’t get in the team.

    This is, as far as I can see, another case of a player who is full of talent, but not delivering day by day at the level that is now needed.

    Remember, if we give him a new contract that will mean commitment to paying him – and just look at the criticism that the club takes for having players on the books who are not hacking it.

    I’ve just been sketching out what teams we might put out and we have (without loan players) three full teams raring to go. We have a lot of players out there.

  • Charlie

    Nobody’s answered the question yet but the answer is yes it’s fine. The requirement is for 8 home-grown players from a squad of 25 which means a maximum of 17 foreign players. As we can all see the total is 17 and yes Szczesney is under 21 but it makes no difference to the squad.

  • Jon

    @skwam & @Tony Of course, of course I understand your points and they do make sense. It’s just difficult to deal with at times because this is what we all want: to see players like JET and Lansbury playing regularly for the side from kids through to retirement and lifting trophies together because of that understanding. God, you see how everybody is going on about Cleverly and Wellbeck and how Man U “have been CONSISTENTLY producing youngsters” (total bollocks, of course), and then you see Lansbury and think “He’s as good as Cleverly” and he’s gone. I am behind the way we do things but sometimes it’s hard to see the vision…

  • Ed

    i agree with Tony regarding Lansbury.

    I know we have had tough games so far this season, but he has done nothing in the time spent on the pitch. he came on as sub for a few games and really struggled to get in, to even get the ball let alone make an impression. maybe he should have more oportunities, but as Tony said, he hasnt really performed even on loan and that was in the Championship.

    but regarding our team now, really quite excited to see them again! i think we still have a decente first 11 when fit who can compete with the best in the world, but now we have strength in depth and certainly more options when dealing with different types of teams.

  • Ed

    @jon

    i feel you! the problem is that these golden generations only come through once a decade if that. i think you can count the ajax of the early 90s, man utd of Beckham, giggs, nevilles, and the barcelona currently with iniesta, xavi and messi.

    even those teams, maybe only have 3 or 4 actual homegrown stars who were at the team from a young age and then there were some very good players with them. if u look at the outcasts from some of those squads (chadwick of man u, arteta and cesc just of the top of my head) and there will be some who wont make it.

    but i think now we have wilshere, frimpong. as well as coquelin and miquel, gibbs possibly and you can also count walcott there i guess… we have this backbone of a very promising team.

  • Dark Prince

    So we have 17 foreign players in the 25 man squad limit…thats the maximum we can bring, bcoz the rest 8 have to home grown in any case….

    So, we cant add any other foreign player till we sell another foreign player…

  • Shard

    @Jon

    Lansbury is not as good as Cleverley. Cleverley had a loan at Wigan in the Premier League last year and did quite well. LansBury and he were teammates two seasons ago at Watford. Yet Lansbury played (and plays) for a club in the Championship for two years running after that. Don’t get me wrong. I’d love to see him make it with us. But I don’t think he will. Wenger’s hardly ever been wrong in terms of letting a young player go.

    Besides. Did you see Lansbury (and Traore) smiling during the latter stages of the debacle at ManU? I don’t think that says Arsenal is in his heart as much as we’d like. I don’t like judging someone based on just a few seconds of a reaction, but losing 8-2, and he’s smiling? Still..It is all about performances, and he’s been decent. No more than that. It’s one thing to look good against Azerbaijan U21. Quite another to merit a place in an Arsenal team and perform to a consistently high level.

  • Shard

    @DP

    Correct, and not ideal. Still I expect Almunia and Squillacci to leave at some point. But I think that was why we were looking at Cahill and Jagielka ahead of Mertesacker. Because I think Per is the superior player. Of course we can BUY anyone and change our squad list in January. That is if we even have Almunia in the official 25.

  • It’s a bizarre comparison but Lansbury provokes a similar reaction to Arshavin. Both players can win you a game with some outstanding individual moments. The reverse of that is that both are defensively suspect, Lansbury offers a lot of running but isn’t brilliant in terms of positioning when the game is going towards his own goal.
    The worry I have is that in the right environment (a defensively sound, unambitious team) his passing, vision and movement could make him the star player for that team. But in a team where everyone has to defend he could be a liability.

  • Jon

    @shard FairPlay. I did actually see that but at the same time, like you, I don’t necessarily think that means much. It was a shit day all round for arsenal. What you’ve all said about consistency is true, of course. I wonder though, were wellbeck and cleverley that good on their loan spells? I thought they looked good, but not world beaters and I’m not sure “consistent” is a word you could use to describe either of them last season. Correct me if I’m wrong…I tell you what though, we definitely have a tasty looking squad. I’m very excited to see the boys in action. “Alright mr wenger, what have you got in store for us this season…” Gorgeous 🙂

  • Charlie

    As someone pointed out Arsene was criticised for rating players such as Denilson too highly and now we’re questioning whether he rates Lansbury enough. As a creative attacking midfielder he needs to be scoring goals and regularly making assists in the Championship to be in contention for Arsenal. We all know the results of putting too much responsibility on the shoulders of a player who isn’t quite up to it. Frimpong on the other hand is younger and, apart from the red card, had a solid debut. I am pleased that Lansbury is being given one final chance to stake a claim by being loaned out to West Ham but also pleased that he’s not being trusted with first team responsibility yet.

  • Since Arsene doesn’t rate players in the same way as us mere-mortals it’s hard to know why he rates some players and not others.
    We know he does rate Lansbury but if you bothered to follow Norwich (even just reading the match reports) or the U21s, you can see there are serious flaws to his defensive game and the Arsenal first team is not the place to work on those flaws.

  • Dark Prince

    Shard- can agree with your jagielka-mertesacker idea….

    But as for our squad limit, i hav a feelin that we’ll be offloadin atleast one player in jan….and its gonna be one of Squillaci, Rosicky, Arshavin, Almunia

  • Chris

    This guy is not as good as denilson u people are just screaming because he is english.i love the arsenal but hate english people for their racism.

  • Chris

    I love ur works walter,keep it up

  • Stevie E

    Chris
    How to win friends and influence people…
    I think you’ll find England is one of the most culturally integrated counties in the world. I’m not even English and I find that comment seriously offensive (I’m Welsh living in London)

  • AFC Shareholder

    Tony, i know you are focusing on the 25 man EPL squad, but you should be mindful of the Champions League Squad too.

    Whereas we have 3 spaces for “homegrown” over 21’s in the EPL, our Champions League A List is full!

    So should we get through the groups, we could not even offer Gary Cahill champions league football, unless of course we off-load one of Almunia, Squillaci, Chamakh, Rosicky, Arshavin.

    You mentioned our “3 teams” that we have at the club. The “4th team” and reserve side isnt bad either and what about our loan side.

    Martinez, Hoyte, Hajrovic, Angha, Meade, Yennaris, Ozyakup, Aneke, Watt, Murphy, Freeman, subs: Ebicilio, Monteiro, Ansah, Neita, Brislen-Hall, Mcdermott/Almunia

    Shea, Boateng, Bartley, Botelho, Lansbury, Denilson, Galindo,
    Wellington, Bendtner, Vela, Campbell,

    As for Lansbury, i think he has reached the end of the road at Arsenal. He is out of contract in May and can sign a pre contract with anyone in January. This could really be a blow for us as i can see Spurs coming in, all Henri’s family are spurs supporters.

    BTW – Chezzer is classed as a homegrown u21

    Just heard a rumour that Almunia could be left out of the Champions League squad in favour of Martinez. That must mean he is being lined up for a loan move. Personally i would rather it be the other way round, but if you can get his £80k a week paid by someone else then why not?

  • bob

    Admin,
    fyi, On the Media Index page: the link there back to the site Index http://www.blog.emiratesstadium.info isn’t working.

  • Thanks bob, have just redone it and seems to work now.

    Tony

  • Steve of Chiang Mai

    Lansbury is right where he needs to be, playing premier league football week in week out so that at the close season he can be evaluated for inclusion in the first team or sold. Like JET and others there is no point him sitting on the bench or swanning around in reserves at this stage. Just lets not get too carried away with one good performance for a team we all declared a waste of time for Jack a few months ago.

  • @Steve,
    He’s with a championship club and at the end of the season his contract expires, other than that, yeah, there is no point him sitting on our bench when he could and should be playing.

    I do have this nagging worry that Big Sam will use him as Mourinho used Sneijder at Inter and Henri will be a big success for West Ham.

  • Ronnie Brown

    On the Lansbury issue, I really rate him as a player, a lot of potential, however from what I observed there may be questions about his attitude, infact I wouldn’t be suprised if he wants to leave us due to him not seeing himself getting first team action soon and he actually himself doesn’t want to sign the new contract, this would force Arsenal’s hand because he has one year left I believe which he will now see out with West Ham and then probably leave, personally I hope he stays, he is certainly a talent but he must translate that into consistant dedicated performances and he has to be fully committed to the club before he plays for us. On a side note I heard Alex Oxlade Chamberlain was involved in 2 of Lansbury’s goals, any footage?

  • Ronnie Brown

    I did notice the Lansbury smiling too, I had a lot of respect for Ramsey the whole game cause I felt he tried very hard and his attitude was correct throughout the whole game, can why he is his national captain and I think he can grow into that role, Ramsey just needs the consistany on the pitch, off the feild he is highly professional, I think sometimes he goes missing but if he takes a bit more responsibility and authority during games I think he will do very well, he can make things happen.

  • AZ

    can you delete or edit your comments?

  • AZ

    Top-flight clubs must register a squad of up to 25 players for league games, which must include no more than 17 ‘non-homegrown’ players.

    ‘Homegrown’ players are defined as those who, irrespective of nationality or age, have been affiliated to the FA or Welsh FA for a period of three seasons or 36 months prior to their 21st birthday.

    In addition to this squad of 25 players, each club may use as many under-21 players as they wish. The player must have been born on or after January 1, 1990 [for 2011-12 season] to be classed as ‘Under-21’ for this season.

    HOMEGROWN

    1. Djourou
    2. Mannone
    3. Song
    4. Walcott
    5. Gibbs

    NON-HOMEGROWN

    1. Almunia
    2. Fabianski
    3. Sagna
    4. Vermaelen
    5. Koscielny
    6. Squillaci
    7. Mertesacker
    8. Santos
    9. Diaby
    10. Rosicky
    11. Arteta
    12. Benayoun
    13. Arshavin
    14. Gervinho
    15. Park
    16. RvP
    17. Chamakh

    Other first team members who don’t have to be included in the 25-man squad (‘U-21’): Szczesny, Jenkinson, Ramsey, Wilshere, Frimpong, Eastmond, Miyaichi, AOC.

    Loanees: pre-1990 births – Bendtner, Denilson, Botelho, Vela; U-21 – Lansbury, Campbell, Galindo, Bartley, Wellington Silva, Shea.

    Other U-21s to watch for – Miquel, Coquelin, Ozyakup, Henderson, Afobe, Aneke, Watt, Freeman.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that next season we’ll have some players who won’t have the under-21 status and will need to be decided upon. The current 1990 births Szczesny, Ramsey, Lansbury, Eastmond, Hoyte, Murphy. I don’t think there’s much doubt over the first two, but the rest have bunch to prove this season.

  • Clerkenwell Gooner

    According to this piece (which is not about the Premier League squad, but that for the Champions League), John Terry is the only player to qualify as “club-trained” at Chel$ki:

    Ryan Bertrand, the England [U21] international, has also missed out as, of the allocation of eight homegrown players, only four can be “association trained” as opposed to “club trained”.

    Bertrand, signed from Gillingham in 2005 as a 15-year-old, has spent periods on loan at Bournemouth, Oldham, Norwich, Reading and Nottingham Forest and, with his Chelsea career so interrupted, therefore does not qualify as “club trained” – John Terry is the only player in the squad that falls into that category – with Frank Lampard, Ashley Cole, Ross Turnbull and Daniel Sturridge making up the “association trained” group.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/sep/02/romelu-lukaku-chelsea-champions-league