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Why does it feel so good to be so negative?

By Walter Broeckx

With the visit of much of the (according to some non-existent) AAA on our site a few things could be noticed.

Of course this analysis will not be valid for all members of the AAA – they are indeed not a homogeneous group – but if you read carefully what some say you can find certain underlying trends within their rants.

It looks as if most have a miserable existence on this planet. And that the only way they can find solace from their miserable existence is by having Arsenal win something.

Now I love Arsenal dearly, so dearly that I dedicate a lot of time to the club each day by working for this site.  Hours I could spend by doing other things. But the love for Arsenal and the fact that it is somehow a bit addictive to write articles keeps me going.

And no, we don’t get paid by Arsenal. I get nothing at all. I don’t even get a free ticket when I come to see the Arsenal play. Not that I need to get one for free but the ridiculous rumour that occurs every now and then is what it is: a stupid and silly rumour.

But I think by working on this site and on the referee aspect in the PL, it is fair to say that I love Arsenal. Even Arsenal dictates my life in a way as I will arrange my life around the games and will do all I can to see the games when they are played. And when we win I feel happy, when we draw I gnash my teeth and when we lose I feel sad.

But then again I will see if there was anything positive about the game to highlight because I think it’s not worth feeling too bad about Arsenal. For me it is about enjoying and sharing our feelings about Arsenal with people all over the world.

We can feel sad together after a defeat but we will not go over the top and start abusing people even if they made a mistake that cost us the game.  Of course that is the easy way. A player scores an own goal: bin him, ban him, sell him, even…kill him. I think no player wants to score an own goal so my reaction is: come on, never mind, make up for it, just do better next time, unlucky.

But some fans (I cannot call them supporters at all) go out and ask for the heads of the offending players.  And they do it each time we lose a game.

I really cannot understand this. Fans wanting bad things to happen to our own players. Abusing women of said players on the internet on social media. I know we like to think we are class at Arsenal both at the club and us supporters but we have a bunch of people who claim to be fan (not supporters!) who can only talk in abusive terms.

The conclusion is that not all our fans are class.  It is sad, but, well, that is the way the world goes. Every family has their black sheep, so has each supporters clan (or fan clan for some).

What they all have in common is also that they seem to lack any patience. Anything had to be done yesterday. The moment we announce a player they will say: did it really have to take that long? Why didn’t they make him sign yesterday, or last week, or even last month? Or we should have signed him last season? They don’t consider that negotiating a deal can be difficult and can take time. And then they point at some other (mostly mega rich and sugar daddy funded) clubs where transfers are done much more quickly.

Of course they are much quicker over there. Because money is no problem for them. When money is no issue you just pay the silly money and that’s it. No worry about the accounts for them. As for Arsenal each transfer is finding the best solution between : do we really need and want him and can we afford it without endangering the club and the future if things would go wrong.

Arsenal cannot afford a Carroll or Torres scenario. That could throw us back a few years. So we must make sure that whoever we buy will be a success.

Now I can imagine some starting to give examples of failed transfers. Yes of course Arsenal also has their share of failed transfers. Each club has those. But at Arsenal we have been lucky enough that most of those transfers were rather cheap. Although cheap is just a manner of speaking of course. But in the mad transfer world of today making a purchase for anything under £10m can be said as a small risk transfer. Some work out, some don’t.

But some sections of our fans don’t want to take such things in account. Just spend whatever the others are asking and do it yesterday/last month/last year. And instead of praising the club they proclaim to love, they abuse the persons who try to make sure that the club doesn’t do anything silly that could jeopardise their future. They want to brag about the big signing their club has made. As they think it will shine in to their own, probably miserable, life.

I admit that when we will announce a big name signing and records will be smashed in the future that I will feel excited about it for a moment (yes contrary to popular believe and myth Untold Arsenal is not against breaking the transfer record and bringing in top players) and then will start to pray to the football gods that the transfer will work out fine. Others will just brag about it, I will be a bit concerned and hope that it doesn’t backfire on us in the future.

For some that maybe will make me a bad fan. Well I take that as a compliment then as I take it that I am a good supporter in that case. Winning is all very well and I want us to win things (this sentence will go unnoticed for the usual suspects) but not at the cost of ruining our club. I have seen enough examples of such things. And that is the last road I would want to walk. But it was a road that was a real possibility the last 8 years.

The Anniversaries

Elsewhere….

The books…

94 comments to Why does it feel so good to be so negative?

  • John

    I totally agree

  • joe

    I disagree. Its not about being negative or positive, just need to look at the trends over the past eight years and the story speaks for itself.
    Wenger is totally incompetent as are his two Yank flunkies, Gazidis and Law. Yesterday’s comments from Wenger as reported on arseblog are ” we have plenty of candidates in midfield and there’s a big fight there”. Sagna settles in well at centre back with Vermaelen out”. So we’re ok in midfield and central defence!! I suppose Diaby will be back to play 5/6 games, but this waster couldn’t tackle his way out of a paper bag, and Sagna on the strength of 45 minutes against Sunderland last season I think and some matches against a few Far Eastern waiters this week is our central defensive answer!I used to think he was just being stubborn and trying to prove everyone wrong, but these latest statements just show him to be completely mad, incompetent as you say, or both. We have no defensive strength in midfield and we are short in central defence, yet this man, who can do no wrong, refuses point blank to address our most obvious shortcomings. So forget Fellaini, Williams or anyone, it’s Suarez or bust! I am beginning to dislike this tyrant more and more every day.

  • Arseniel

    Doesn’t take much to get them going. Lets try and be understanding here. Joe didn’t get any last night. Lets see how many more come on here that couldn’t get any last night either

  • Jp

    There is risk in everything. We have to take the plunge and spend sometime if we are going to be successful. Unfortunately that is the way football has grown into. Until there are caps put in place like American sports in an effort to level the playing field for more teams, you either take the risk or create a 4th place trophy and celebrate that on the final day.

  • Doublegooner

    Arsebog.

    A backer of Arsene & The club, probably one of the widest read blogs out there is now becoming very critical & doubting.

    When a site like that together with many others are now questioning the whole philosophy of Wengers & Gazidas’s transfer policy, that is a barometer of how feelings are changing.

    Of course some here will just add them to the their silly ‘Anti Arsenal’ club.

    Like you Walter, many have Arsenal in their DNA. We care, we love this club, it’s been a part of us through thick & thin, through family generations.

    I have so many special stories of the club since the 60’s (that don’t just involve winning silverware).

    The next few weeks could be very eventful.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Walter , agree with you .Each of us want Arsenal to do well
    and if its done in style , the better.
    And each of us gleans from each victory (or loss )something that resonates closest to our heart .Euphoria , ecstasy ,
    orgasm ,a sense of foreboding ,hopelessness ,feelings of doom and gloom ,etc.
    If we understand why such feelings overtake us ,we may learn to deal with it in a more reasonable manner .

  • Mandy Dodd

    Very true I do not think our bad financial situation from a few years back has fully come to light for a lot of reasons. The stadium was a huge gamble even without the worst recession in seventy years rise of the sugar daddy. Transfer summers can be frustrating but patience is needed. We have let far too many go not to bring players in just a question of time. I am not convinced by the Suarez bid I fear he could be playing us and his club will not want him at arsena anyway, i fear the very worst on cesc but as I posted on another thread but keep your eye to the left of field maybe someone like alexis Sanchez? We will also bring in another mf as le coq has gone out on loan leaving us very short on backup. For the extreme of the fans you refer to they clearly have issues

  • Brickfields Gunners

    As for stupidity ,there’s really no hope !

  • Mandy Dodd

    Arseblog often talks a lot of sense but he is surely just a fan with a blog to write who is currently reflecting concern at the current lack of activity which is reasonable after some of the summers we have been through. Could all change very quickly our squad in not at the moment strong enough to go through a season we have to strengthen and we will. Our CEO has ensured that from the start of the summer

  • Marvin

    I can understand our fans frustrations. We all bought into the building a new stadium save the money. We all stomached losing our best players to rivals and even knocked their methods, Chelsea, and they have gone on to win the big one in Europe. I’ve been behind wenger up until last season when he sold van persie when red nose phoned him and he buckled after saying the player was gong nowhere. This season comes and after having £70 million to spend he let’s 2 of his targets go without even a fight. Sorry but even though we hate the board it’s anger who sanctions the transfers so if we don’t buy anyone it’s down to him and no one else. I hope I’m wrong and gladly have egg on my face but we have no chance of Suarez or any other big name player while wenger is in charge.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Sometimes when you are taken for a ride or being outrightly
    cheated , its always respond in a classy way and not stoop
    to their level.
    There was once a priest who was playing a round of golf with a man he had just met .Unknown to him the man was a golf pro.
    Having taken a modest bet with him , the priest soon realised that he was being conned ,but kept quiet.
    When the game was over , the priest paid up and was about leave ,when the man ,feeling guilty , confessed that indeed he was a pro and offered to returned the money to the priest.
    The priest declined but made this offer to the man ,” Bring your parents to my church this Sunday ,and I’ll marry them!”

  • graham clarke

    No chance of buying players when wengers in charge what a muppet art from the Mafia and oil backed clubs every team is having trouble buying players its not all the answer ask m c arsenal have not lost for about 15games still people are like kids waiting for christmas

  • Mike

    Well said Walter. When kids and know-it-alls start ranting about Wenger being crap, it’s completely laughable. We have people with an IQ’s lower than their age who seemingly think they know how to rund a world class football club and negotiate the best transfer deals in the world in minutes. They deserve sympathy. Intelligent people who think the same way are the one’s that confound me every time.

  • Lobster

    Because its much easier to be negative.. There’s no risk. If the team loses – “I told u so, Gervinho couldn’t score a hooker, what does Gazidis do? Y does Wenger always have to show he’s a %&¥£”. The team wins – “Yay my team won, Gooner4life, I’ve always said we should play this formation, thank God for Steve Bould BUT this win is only going to hide the FACT that we lack a defender, a keeper, midfielder which are only going to cost Arsenal 300mill, which isn’t much because AMBITIOUS teams like City spent 900mill, in January alone”

  • bc

    have to say, it is looking like another deja vu season. the only difference being that the club are not making money from transfers out, just simply showing players the door and trimming wages. 23 players have been removed from the wage bill this summer with just the one 20 year old and a dof apprentices coming in. Yet still the first team squad contains 26 players, that is still more players than have started league matches in each of the last 3 seasons.

    Now it appears that wenger is going to promote somewhere between 7 and 11 of the academy products in order to replace the deadwood. whilst I have no problem with that, if he doesn’t bring in some world class players as suggested the likes of podolski, cazorla, Wilshire, Walcott, arteta, giroud and koscielny who have been lead to believe this as well will surely be unhappy.

    as for us supporters who have been season ticket holders and away scheme members through all 12 of wengers barren seasons (yes its not just 8 seasons there were other trophyless seasons in between the successful ones) it may just be that come sept 1st enough is enough! especially if the spuds put one over us as another deadline day passes, with unfulfilled promises!!

  • tomstoned

    in my humble opinion,i think that many Gooners are fed up with all the lies,paying over the top(ticketprizes)and selling all our best players not replacing them..
    i think most Gooners hate to see Our Beloved Arsenal as a selling club.we had higher hopes !
    but mostly being turned from a football club into just another brand…
    lack of ambition is clear to see all over..who to blame well we have an owner who couldnt careless about the game,we have gazidis who lies constantly,and we have a board that surely should have retired along time ago..
    its plain and simple really when we stop trying to be the best then its more or less over…in sport it has always been about winning…once you loose that goal you will never win anything…
    as for Untold Arsenal as a blog…i guess its nice to lick butt…

  • Stuart

    Another factor is that Chelsea and City and to a certain degree, Utd, are able to buy players who are not actually for sale due to their sheer financial power where as the money available at Arsenal is not really enough to be able to do this and before you say £70 million blah blah blah, this would enable us to do it just once and then clubs would expect it every time.

  • negative goon

    Why does it feel good to be so negative?
    mmmmmm….
    Maybe it’s because there’s less chance of
    feeling hurt, that way?
    So by, someone been negative all the time,
    There’s actually more chance of them been happier
    When the sh#t doesn’t hit the fan?

  • Waynegooner87

    Good article again Walter, I agree with what you say I will always support arsenal and wenger and appreciate what wenger has done but when you consistently read silly transfer rumours about players signing and having a medical and nothing coming to fruition negativity can set in, but as gooners we must stay positive and hope for that game changing signing if not I will get behind the team because this is the arsenal! COYG!

  • always

    well said, but are you insinuating that all is well with arsenal? wot is the logic behind the acquisition of gearic player like chamack? to balance the book I guess you respond? if we can understand simple arithmetic or elementary arithmetic, you will see that this kind of business does not necessarily bring out a rational judgement on the part of wenger and his cohort. let us face it, we all love arsenal, and the gospel truth need to be told! we need to restragised and move forward. arsenal is a big club. we fans deserve more becouse we have puttiing both emotionally and fanancially.

  • Goona Gal

    Trying to understand the psyche of some so called fans is difficult. It also is en vogue today as I’ve read another great article this morning along a similar theme.

    http://positivelyarsenal.com/2013/07/28/supporting-both-sides-of-the-arsenal-coin/

  • Goona Gal

    Blah,blah,blah Arseblog!!!…so Arseblog’s opinion is supposed to influence mine?

    I stopped reading that blog years ago because of the singling out of players for constant mockery among other things which led to fans/lemmings slating and waging a hate campaign against said players. It’s no wonder strange underlings have appeared on this site again and again trying to explain away their dumb comments. They feel buoyed because arseblogger has endorsed their point of view or we could go as far as to say that it’s the other way around -arseblogger has told them what to think and feel about the club.

  • Bootoomee

    Lobster,

    You really know those guys. That was a perfect example!

  • Bootoomee

    bc,

    You have a divine right to be unhappy. I and others here refuse to join you though. We’ll rather wallow in our delusion and see how the season pans out.

  • Bootoomee

    tombstoned,

    Thanks for making Walter’s point.

    I will defend to the death your right to be sad and miserable. Just leave others out of it.

  • Bootoomee

    Waynegooner87,

    “I agree with what you say I will always support arsenal and wenger and appreciate what wenger has done but when you consistently read silly transfer rumours about players signing and having a medical and nothing coming to fruition negativity can set in”

    You see this is the main reason why I hate the transfer speculation nonsense. None of these speculations were backed by Arsenal. Most of them were just made up. But when the made up transfer never materialises, folks start blaming Arsene and start calling Gazidis a liar.

    Wenger’s position has always been in the line of: “if we see good players that can strengthen us at the RIGHT price, we’ll get them” and he has always kept his word. Those who want the club to be spending stupid money on players need to switch clubs now. This Arsenal policy is not going to change anytime soon.

  • Bootoomee

    Goona Gal,

    The eagerness with which these lemmings defer to the wisdom of Arseblog is rather sad. I like the fact that at Untold, we are all equal here. Even though Tony is published writer and Walter is a referee, no one here thinks their knowledge of issues are beyond reproach.

    I have disagreed with Tony about Untold joining the transfer speculation business with his story confirming Higuain (oh BTW Tony, I am right after all but I don’t want to gloat as I am not happy we missed him).

    I have vehemently disagreed with Tony and many other Untolders of like minds on Suarez. VERY STRONGLY!!!

    This is the beauty of Untold, we debate each other here, we don’t listen to lectures. Let the sheeple (ironic because that is what they call us) get their direction and talking points from their Internet gods, we’ll stick to having OPEN conversations about our team.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Are ‘fans ‘ being paid /bribed with the most expensive seat in the EPL to boo and destabilise the Arsenal ?
    An oxymoron I know , but just thinking aloud !
    Agent provocateurs ?

  • Mandy Dodd

    Think the Internet is partly to blame a ready source of interpreted info for the like minded. Wonder if people were so miserable pre net but even of they were they would not have had the platform of today. But the net does have its positives and sites such as this are amongst them. There are a lot of unhappy unfulfilled people out there and our club are nothing more than a lightening rod for some of them

  • Bootoomee

    Third paragraph @2.43pm should have read:

    “I have vehemently disagreed with WALTER and many other Untolders of like minds on Suarez. VERY STRONGLY!!!”

    Apologies Tony!

  • Super Singh

    I’ve been an Arsenal supporter since 1975, and back then we was a good football team but not great? We never dreamt of playing sides like Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan and company. And now we can stand tall and give these sides a good game, the club has increased in size and stature and well respected world wide.

    It does hurt when players do not join our ranks, and not strengthened and existing players leave for whatever reasons? BUT Arsenal do not need to buy players just because people tell them to do so?

    You take the club as it is? Support the club through thick and thin (wart’s and all that?) if you don’t like what’s going on, then please close the door on the way out?

  • Bootoomee

    Super Singh,

    Right on, brother!

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Sometime they choose to be the arsehole.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2MAat5yQdA

  • bjtgooner

    Interesting article Walter. Once again you have activated some of those who enjoy claiming they are miserable because of Arsenal/manager/team/board/other fans, etc.

    In most circumstances when people are miserable the natural reaction of colleagues is to comfort and support – to help bring the people involved through whatever is causing the trauma and back to a normal happy state.

    With regard to the AAA – who do not exist, but who contribute here when they consider a topic is opportune – they are normally so obtuse and malicious in their comments that it is hard to have any sympathy with them – especially when they choose to come onto a pro-Wenger site to backstab our manager – if they simply wanted to vent they could spew out their bile on Le Groan.

    It may be a coincidence that a series of the non-existent AAA appear on this site in relays, or it may be a campaign. Strangely this phenomenon – concerted AAA attacks – seems to have become much more vociferous since a certain overfed person bought some Arsenal shares.

  • bob

    If you’re happy and you know it clap your hands…clap clap
    If you’re happy and you know it clap your hands…clap clap
    If you’re happy and you know it and you really want to show,
    if you’re happy and you know it clap your hands…clap clap

    Walter,
    In this current article it seems to me that you’ve constructed a model of a world where a fan is either happy or miserable and there’s no mix or situation or context or gray permitted. Just one or the other. I don’t doubt there’s real AAA, because I’ve seen them in action in the summer of Cesc, and since, and know they’re real; but they are not everywhere, and, when being vigilant and on guard, it’s also important not to encourage a witch hunt. (As you’re surely aware, there have been many a dictatorship which accuses its opposition, even once loyal opposition, of mental illness before taking terrible measures.)

    Of course when people wish their team would lose, or hope their manager would die, or threaten to take out a poor player they are AAA, because they are bad or immoral or twisted human beings. But apart from such extremes that are relatively easy to notice, there is a huge range of human behavior that is being ruled out of bounds. Especially in the long pre-games that matter period, there’s all this time and space to turn against the so-called disloyal ones in the ranks. To resort to it’s my playpen, I don’t like how you play, so get the fuck outta here.

    Now, as we wait and see how this window plays out, and as a huge fan of your ref analyses which have taught me and others such valuable insights and lessons, I want to ask a bit more about today’s posting: What does it take – apart from the extreme behaviors that we’d agree should be exiled – to be labeled too negative to be a loyal fan? Is it one frown? or even a sustained counter-argument? by one that doesn’t cave in before the loyalty tests and the bullying and the snide smears, that merits the AAA label? or that you’re clearly someone who can’t get laid? or can’t get or keep a job? or someone who has a miserable life? or someone who enjoys being unhappy?

    There are people in every shape and form of psychological states, and, whatever the state, and the person’s history, they can do a broad number of things about it. Yes, some don’t realize the state they’re in. Common enough. Some can have and display a blind hatred for their team because, yes, they are/were disappointed in life, so they misguidedly transfer it against their “betraying” team, or against its (bad father) manager. And, believe it or not, some can have and at every moment assert their blind unconditional love for their team in order to make their world, the world, and their complex problems go away. Or even to deny that they have any problems.

    Some can deny their problems by slating those they disagree with, or that disagree with them, for being miserable and unfulfilled. As if, by the way, that is a crime. Today’s posting encourages that attitude. It is a tactic to smear fans one disagrees with as psychologically or sexually damaged. But it’s a nasty and dehumanizing tactic; and when it is continually resorted to, and then encouraged by, it seems, articles like today’s, then we are on a slippery slope. Would you toss out or smear away principled counter-arguments here by giving a wink and a nod that encourages this knee-jerk “you disagree so you’re disloyal and you’re disloyal because you’re miserable and damaged” line of defense?

    Is it possible to be happy or unhappy (it really doesn’t matter unless you have the power to make it matter) and still be at times wildly pro-AFC and at other times, depending on context and analysis, in the loyal opposition? Is loyal opposition a category of behavior that you or UA wish to banish from these shores? I would think not. Even as some of the loyalists would place unconditional tribalism and loyalty and litmus tests in the forefront of their commentaries and wield these like clubs.
    I could easily (and just as wrongly or not) say that those who patrol a comments section like pit-bulls who protect the front yard from intruders (who only turn out to be the post or delivery man) stay so hair-trigger vigilant because you have nothing better or other to do. Or that you’re miserable and unfulfilled. But that is just as ignorant and one-sided as the accusations leveled at critics and those you disagree with.

    I think a truce is in order. That people stop smearing their perceived opponents as worthy of targeting with psychological brickbats and epithets. It’s bullying and boring. That is, boring because it manufactures a drama, a soap opera, that is not really about football analysis. Some may choose to wait for the season because fans have no power anyway, and there’s nothing wrong with that at all. Others choose to weigh in all the time, and, ditto, nothing wrong their either. That’s what fans do, ffs. And there’s so much to be analyzing, and it’s fun and engaging on lots of levels. So let a thousand flowers bloom, including the weeds, without the constant “labeling” to defeat the other guy’s arguments instead of offering counter-arguments. Is there a fear of posing and counter-posing actual analyses and counter-arguments? Perhaps the question of the day ought to be what is so pleasurable about resorting to vicious name-calling – instead of analyzing and debating?

    As for an example of loyal opposition, at times, here’s one example from a long-standing Arsenal-loving blogger which does provide an interesting and engaging analysis of the current moment, as opposed to pop-psychoanalysis. It is worth disagreement because it elevates the discussion. And it’s by someone (who I do not worship and at times argue with), who loves the team and most always supports AW, who analyzes the current transfer situation, three weeks from the kick-off:
    http://www.aclfarsenal.co.uk/2013/07/28/patience-on-front-line-leaves-time-to-shore-up-the-defence/
    For full disclosure, I am not paid by that blogger. And, like it or lump it, I would give Walter’s work on refshite and its threat to the game top-top honors for sports jorno of the year (two years running).

  • The font

    Are your individual feelings for the club more important than the club if you answer yes then football is not the game for you . I try very hard to go with the majority on most things and the majority think that wenger is still the man for the job . If the AAA. Changed there lobby and said what most of the football world think is wenger is a great manager . and at certain times touched on genius But has failed to produce on the field in the last 8 seasons . and I think it maybe better to try someone new. You may have some sympathy for there view . You may even question if it has validity . But no they rant he is s*it he. Is mad he does not know what he is. Doing we should have bought messi maradona and the pope . Do they have degrees in business finance have they just finished a 5 year. Course at the F.A
    I think not. The only requirement is to be susceptible to TREASON

  • Bart

    If the supporter’s mood is pretty negative right now then I’m afraid the club has brought it onto themselves. I cannot believe that the CEO of Arsenal was bragging about loadsemoney and signing big name players at the start of the transfer period. You want Higuain or Suarez? Didn’t you say you had lots of money? Haven’t you raised expectations of your supporters sky high? Okay, special mates rates for you, normal price plus £10mio.
    Meanwhile Spurs go quietly about their business. Can we please swap Levy for Gazidis?

  • Bootoomee

    bjtgooner,

    I don’t have much love for that overfed fella and I agree with your theory where the media is concerned. But the AAA have always been active pre-Overfed person. Please Lobsters’ post (@1.16pm) for a classic AAA mindset.

    When I used to say that these guys are miserable souls with no personal achievement who are substituting their club’s fortunes for theirs, it came across to some as mean/unfair on my part. I’m glad to see from more commenters and even Walter, in this article, that my psycho-analysis is getting more mainstream.

  • blacksheep63

    hey Walter leave us Black Sheep alone! But seriously too Goona Gal, I read the @Arseblogger everyday and yes recently he has sounded very downbeat but I don’t remember him singling out players for criticism. He is usually very fair – and very funny – and often hungover. But as someone said on here (sorry not to name check you) he’s just A VOICE an opinion, a FAN.
    I want us to buy players that improve the team but spending money for the sake of it won’t do that. But we also need to recognize that this is a very peculiar business that runs unlike almost all other businesses. If you don’t like it, start learning to crochet or take up stamp collecting instead – in short, deal with it

  • Walter, I’m sorry but I just don’t know why you keep going on about this. It appears to me that it is you who keeps ranting about the ‘AAA’, as opposed to any ‘AAA’ ranting about Arsenal.

    I have seen very few fans (if any) turn on a player after one bad game. Players and staff get turned on because they do something that really upsets the fans or are just not good enough over long periods of time.

    There might be a few sicko’s out there who start abusing players wifes/girlfriends verbally but to lump those people in with an imaginary group that you can hang everything negative said about Arsenal on is a disingenuous in my view.

    There are upset fans, a lot of them and with very good reason. Blindly supporting a club no matter what it does, in my view, is actually not real support. Its more akin to a religion. It’s fine if you want Arsenal to your religion, but don’t mix that up with what it takes to be a supporter of the club.

  • @bob also wanted to say your post is fantastic. Thank you for posting it.

  • Dec

    Hey Bob, your surname isn’t Tolstoy is it??

  • sperez

    Doublegooner,
    Don’t worry. Many other blogs out there supportive of Lord Wenger may start to question him but Untold will always be here to provide shelter for those who can’t stand the cruel reality regarding the club and the manager.

  • Nigerian Gunner

    Its really refreshing to see that some of us are not among those who want Arsenal to lose games in order to tell us, did I not say so, and rob our noses on it. Our club is our club, lets support it in the best possible way. Will we die because we didn’t reinforce. We all want us to succeed but not at the expense of bankruptcy and administration. Lets hope we reinforce, but if we did not, lets dig in and enjoy the coming season.

  • Marvin

    Wenger has to give up on Suarez immediately if he’s not willing to put in a realistic bid soon. Liverpool are of course very hesitant about selling him to us already, and the longer we wait, the fewer options will be available to them to replace him. There is a cut off point on most transfers, especially when there is such great competition, and for a player of Suarez’s calibre, there are just too many reasons why this transfer won’t happen. Wenger needs to move on and get someone more realistic. If there aren’t any decent options available, then he needs to use Podolski and Theo up front when necessary and he needs to buy at least one good winger, a longer term replacement for Rosicky, a holding mid, a new CB, and a new keeper, and he needs to spend big. I know it’s unrealistic, but at this stage it’s the only way to properly address the overall deficiencies of the squad and to keep us fans at ease.

  • Bootoomee

    Sperez,

    Why not just go to those ‘many other blogs’ that are questioning “Lord” Wenger and question him with them instead of coming here to harrass people with different outlook? I don’t go to le groan to preach to them about supporting our club as it is because I know that that is not what they are about. What you and others of your ilk are doing here is nothing but provocation and harrassment.

  • Marvin

    Am I right in saying that Dortmund have had no offers for lewandowski this summer.i can’t believe we have not turned to him when he his in the last year of his contract,and that theres bad blood between Bayern and Dortmund at the moment.money talks in this game and i’m sure no club wants to see their best player leave on a free,especially to Bayern next summer.if we can offer 40m and the 1 pound LOL,for suarez, then why don’t we try to get lewandowski.it makes sence to me on so many levels.i’m sure Dortmund would rather sell him to us than Bayern for starters and they would be getting a big transfer instead of the player leaving for free.we can’t keep dragging our feet on suarez because we might end up with no one and that would be a disaster.can’t seem why we can’t get in there when the kettles hot and when there aint many big offers going round.

  • Shard

    bob

    Fantastic posting (If a little harsh on Walter)

    The problem of course is the very thing you are trying to address. The real issues at Arsenal don’t get debated. Usually because people are either too busy attacking the notion of there being anything right at the club, or too busy defending it.

    Arsenal has issues. They are hard to get information about, and even harder to make sense of, but these issues exist. Arsenal are also a fantastic club with a fantastic history, and as a reasonable expectation, a fantastic future. As you say, it is not a dichotomy. Or rather, it shouldn’t be. Neither in terms of the supporters views, nor in terms of where our club is.

    I am however, sorry to say, that there are very few posters on this site who take the (for lack of a better word) ‘negative’ view that can put together more than a few bits of information in a logical manner. Now, perhaps that is also the case with the ‘positive’ posters, (although in my experience, not so) but they are in line with the thinking on the site, so they can blend in. Why I have less of a problem with Walter having a rant is because one, it becomes frustrating to deal with people as obtuse and wilfully destructive that are often seen here. And two, because it is incumbent on the more ‘negative’ thinkers to set forth a clear argument since they come on here and try to counter the articles. Very few do that, and most just start of with a tone of righteous anger rather than genuinely considered belief.

    As you will no doubt agree, as shown through your media watch initiative, I blame the media for this vitiation in the debate. Unfortunately, I am less optimistic about the standard of debate improving. I sort of just drift away when it gets too much for me. Still, I hope your voice of reason prevails today.

  • steven

    @Marvin; The answer to your question of whether the purchase of Suarez would turn the club back into a winning outfit (in terms of trophies) would depend on what else Arsenal are doing in the background that isn’t so public. Surely, something is going on. There is no argument that a centre back is required, as well as some kind of dominant midfield presence. I could accept that we might get away with the existing goalkeeping options if Szczesny stayed fit and became more consistent. There is certainly an argument that he needs challenging, but frankly, other positions are more critical if the keeper can retain the form shown since returning to the team last spring.

    What Arsenal do not want to do is fail to conclude their business for much longer. Granted, Suarez would not be able to take part in the first six domestic matches, but waiting until August 31st to do that deal leaves the club with nowhere else to go if it does not materialize, which has to be likely with Real Madrid having dispensed with Higuain.

    As for the other positions, the club have had all summer to secure two integral players. If they were not close to concluding deals for whoever they have (hopefully) been trying to sign, there are very serious questions to ask. The reality is that Arsenal have £100 million to spend on transfers and the first year’s wages of new buys. So they can afford £50 million for Suarez and pick up serious quality for at least two other positions. As it stands we have Yaya Sanogo. If Arsene Wenger cannot get it right in this window, with so much cash to splash, there really need to be questions at boardroom level asked about the wisdom of offering him another four years in the job.

  • Mandy Dodd

    What sort of issues would you say they are shard? I am sure you are correct btw. I have often wondered what wenger really thinks of the CEO going out and telling all of our wealth, no reason to question anything here just a gut feeling and curiosity

  • Sam

    Its not Carroll or Torres that we need to worry about. It’s players like Stepnovs, Almunia, Sandros, Parks, Bentner, Chamakh, Sqilachi, Silvester and many more. We wasted lot of money on them. Like gold, quality is never expensive regardless of the price. Buying cheap is expensive and wasteful business. How can Arsenal pay £12 m on potential ( like Ox, and I am not against paying good money for potential), but would not pay £18 m for proven quality ( like Mata ).
    And let’s not patronise by dividing Arsenal fans in to better and poor classes. To me every Arsenal fan has the same class. I might not agree with them, but they have a view and I respect it. They are Arsenal fans is enough for me.
    In life some people have more patience than others. That all.
    We have same match day revenue and for less debt then Man U. So why are we lagging too far behind them in strengthening our squad.

  • Bootoomee

    I think we can limit the long winded sermonising and pseudo-philosophical verbosity by just returning to the basics:

    What is this website about, as boldly stated on its banner?

    Untold Arsenal is probably the most honest blog in terms of ideology. I laugh when I see commenters complain about Tony/Walter’s support for and refusal to denigrate the team/Wenger/the board. It is either such commenters can’t read or they are just here to provoke arguments. In several of the articles on this blog, including this one, there are clarifications and qualifications of the authors support but the agents provocateur ignore these and continue to call the bloggers names.

    In the final analysis, all gooners want the same thing: for our Arsenal to be successful! Our differences lie in our divergent definitions or yardstick of success and the routes or strategies for achieving them.

    Now, I come to Untold to rub minds with other people who share my vision and values for the club. This way, I don’t end up always fighting with the authors and other members of the Untold community (apart from the AAA obviously). I will deserve to be called names if I go to le groan (and a host of other Arsenal sites) to preach gospel of patience or express my faith in Wenger or the board. Why should I allow anti-Wenger, anti-board elements to come on here and spread disaffection? None of us are going to change our minds so let’s cut out the charade. Those who think that we must splash the cash to win trophies and those who say let the club managers do what they are paid to do, are not going change their positions, so why the aggravattions?

    Granted that many claim that they are tethered to Arsenal for life (I call BS on this but that is another matter), they cannot say the same about Untold. No one has to be here. We all choose to, hence if your contribution is creating discord and causing disaffection, just go to where you can have constructive conversation with people of like minds.

    It is not complicated at all.

  • matt

    Weird when there is post with good reason asking the portrayers of the AAA prefix to explain themselves and why they use this tactic? That there is pure silence and a continual sniping at people that don’t seen to be on the blog anyway.

  • Shard

    Mandy

    I don’t mean issues of conflict of that nature. I guess they must exist to a certain degree (in fact someone I know on another blog claims they do, and I don’t think he’s lying.) But I don’t think there’s any way to know about the details, and I don’t think it is bad enough to be a major issue. If it was, it wouldn’t stay hidden.

    Also, I don’t think Wenger worries too much about what Gazidis announces to the world. He’s said many times he doesn’t bother about what is being said in the media. As long as the board reasonably back him in what he wants to do, it shouldn’t be an issue.

    What I meant by issues is that, the negative nellies have a point that it isn’t just about the money. I’ve been wondering a lot about this over the past few days, and it isn’t just about us not having enough money that we, for example, don’t buy players quickly. It is the way we do things.

    Ah HAH!! The numpties will shout. One of Wenger’s supporters turns on him. But no, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. It has it’s negatives, but it also explains why we have less wastage, and moreover, why we seem so coherent as a team despite losing vital cogs every year, over the years. It is all conjecture on my part, but I think issues like this, are more interesting than some of the nonsense that is abound, and that they deserve to be discussed more, and with more of an open mind.

  • sperez

    Bootoomee,
    I think reading only things you like and agree is very restrictive to one’s perspective. Le Grove has some people who defend Wenger if you want to know…They may be a minority group but they are commenting there to show their opinions.

  • Adam

    It is remarkable, what can be accomplished when you are surrounded by people who believe in you;

    People whose expectations are not set by the short sighted attitudes of society – People who help to open doors of opportunity, not close them.

    Neil deGrasse Tyson.

  • Adam

    Curious that we spend more time congratulating people who have succeeded than encouraging people who have not.

    Neil deGrasse Tyson.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Thanks shard see where you are coming from. Hopefully there is no significant conflict on any meaningful level but as you say lots of interesting things to debate and a hell of a lot we know nothing or very little about any maybe that’s as it should be. When wenger or Ivan open their mouths they get slated mid interpreted ridiculed. And thankfully we are not a club that goes about its business in the media

  • Bootoomee

    Sperez,

    We are not studying at the Arsenal University nor are we at the Arsenal Parliament. We are not carrying out some philosophical ruminations on the meaning of life or advancement of human civilisation and neither are we debating the best fiscal policy(ies) to address Britain’s macro-economic fortunes. We are mere fans, we do this strictly for fun – well, that is it for me. I don’t need the perspective of anyone else on how to support Arsenal, particularly not those of fans who are always whinging about issues that they have absolutely no control over.

    I want to share my optimism (deluded or not) of the coming season with fellow optimists, not argue with those who believe that the team will never compete until we buy 3 or 4 (it is always 3 or 4) world class players costing at least £30million each. I am happy to brainstorm about how we are going to manage/play our current players not wallow in pity and covetousness over the players of other teams.

    My problem is with the football fans who take supporting their team too seriously and personally to the point of chicken-littling if the club’s managements decisions are contrary to their expectations.

  • dan

    Sod the AAA and the tabloids, Arsenal can sign a unknown. The wenger magic will prevail!!!!!

  • I for one did read the title of this blog and do realise that it is wholly positive in it’s outlook. I therefore find it strange that such an article would even exist here. In truth there are far too many articles like this, lashing out at the so called AAA.

    I am not positive about our chances of success this year and do see many problems with our current approach, but I also do see some positives. Does that make me part of some AAA conspiracy? I think not.

    I actually come here to read the positive articles and the excellent analysis of refereeing in the PL.

    It is perfectly fine to be positive, but if you set your forum up to only be positive then stick to it. Do not insult any other fan that thinks differently. How is that positive?

  • Bootoomee

    jayramfootball,

    I don’t get your grudge. You are not positive about our chances because you see many problems with our current approach but you also see some positives. Well, I say good for you. I have no problem with you until you start spreading your pessimism about the club or start insulting those deluded fans who are positive about the team. Then you become AAA.

    I wonder how many people gave Wigan, Swansea or Borrusia Dortmund any chances of winning the FA cup, the league cup and reaching the final of ECL respectively. I choose to believe in my team, not because I think we are going to win anything but because that is what supporters do.

  • Doanythingformoney

    A ginger group who dislike a manager and bang on about it endlessly is an essential part of a club. All clubs have them and when a club goes through a golden period- they melt away. The problem with our club is the media. Bulling-up Manure sells papers and slagging off their opposition also sells papers. Boring as it may be- we live in a Manure dominated business.

    There are many who will suffer financially if there is an Arsenal resurgence. The media are more or less forced to try and make sure it doesn’t happen. And as we know- it isn’t just the media. Stirring up the so called AAA is essential in their campaign. Let us hope they all have their work cut out this coming season. How wonderful would it be to see the AAA melt away as the pundits shrivel and squirm!

  • The font

    People that think they know what constitutes. A real fan and are not sure wether they are in church or at a football match. should relise positives lead to greatness. I think what they are trying to say is if you support your family and you buy them a nice car and a big house if your neighbours comes along and buys a better car and a bigger house your family should question your worth and should out you .stupid mentality if you ask me

  • Goona Gal

    @ Bootoomee – the frustration of some posters that are annoyed that Untold is a site discussing a different topic or maybe voicing an alternative point of view is so ridiculous. They want us to get ‘on message’ with what the other blogs think or say.

    I like this site’s clear statement of intent and the articles that are published which reflect this. It’s refreshingly honest and open.

  • Mandy Dodd

    The aaa concept obviously means different things to different people. Maybe Bob is right in his characteristic superbly worded post, perhaps in the eyes of some,there could be some sort of truce, at least with the more respected regular and coherent critics we often see on here. But not sure these guys are the problem? Or maybe they are in some eyes, not for me to say. But it is the swivel eyed loons, those who offer not constructive debate or criticism but unwarrented abuse of the players and manager, those who gloat when things go wrong, those who actually want us to lose to fit their agenda, and my pet hate, those who misquote Einstein. Not saying people are not free to have those views but is this really the site for them? After-all, this is a site to accentuate the positive, to counter all the negative sites out there and whilst anyone has the right to debate, criticise or even misquote Einstein, surely if you spend time on here, you know what it says on the tin and you are probably not going to change many views on here. I am sure the majority know that everything has not been perfect for our club, I have been critical of a few issues and have at times worried over ownership and direction, and for instance I thought selling Song was either madness, completely financially driven or even both despite being a big fan of Ramsey, but this does not seem to be the site to dwell or get too hung up on club imperfections, real or perceived,and instead, look into the reasons for problems, look to a bright future and appreciate what we have got. I know that does not do it for all Gooners, some genuine passionate fans are more likely to find greater satisfaction on other sites. Not to say that well founded, coherent , constructive criticism, or even the occasional words of sheer and understandable frustration should not also pay a part here, and it seems to be, for the most part such critics are given the time of day on here, which is more than can be said for supporters of Wenger on some sites

  • sperez

    You better pray Spuds don’t sell Bale to Madrid. They’ll invest even more and may buy the likes of Di Maria, Coentrao. Arsenal university…I remember someone saying Wenger’s experiments have made Arsenal some kind of university. However I see Arsenal resembling a business more than a football club with each passing season. Wenger, the accountant, running the club with a socialist wage model.
    The only positive so far was getting rid of the deadwood, but maybe this is only to allow more overpaid shite to replace them.
    Many people commenting about clubs like Dortmund and Napoli having to sell their top players but at least replacing them with good players. They invest their money. Arsenal? Hoarding money.
    Then you have the likes of Gazidis and Wenger with spins and lies. I guess many fans don’t like to be deliberate mislead by those running the club.
    If Wenger doesn’t buy at least one top player you will see the backlash and it’ll be totally deserved.
    But hey let’s be optimistic the squad is good enough to challenge. The same squad that finished 16 points behind the winners last season…and some people still believe in the impossible. Well, Wenger winning a major title with this squad has the same chance of me winning the lottery and I never bet in the lottery.
    Eight years was not enough for some people. Maybe eight more years will make the point for them.

  • Goona Gal

    @ Bootoomee – also can I just say that I really enjoy reading your comments. I won’t necessarily always agree with you on every point, but I am always interested to read your point of view. I thought your post at at 7:26 pm hit the nail on the head.

    RE: Jayramfootball – you might want to read the comments on this previous article.

    http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/26392

  • Mandy Dodd

    Off topic, but a bit of Wenger insight here, nothing we really do not know, but looks like developing young players still a priority, though now we are out of financial restrictions, hopefully we will always have experienced p,ayers to help them on their way, this has not always been the case
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenals-arsene-wenger-q-management-2099396

  • Adam

    Direction, Goals and ambition.

    Arsenal have these three things in abundance.

    The three attributes stated can be applied to everyone in all walks of life. Do you have these attributes? If not, why not?

  • Adam

    I like my new avatar above. plaster over the mouth. maybe the internet gods are trying to tell me something?

  • Goona Gal

    @ Adam – Re: comments left at 8:28pm & 8:33pm, I have to confess I had no idea who Neil deGrasse Tyson was, but I liked your posts so googled him and I am glad.

    @ dan, 9:26 pm – yep agreed, I reckon the manager has earned a bit of trust and respect from me at least in that area.

    @ Doanythingformoney – It’s hard for some to believe that the media might have hidden agendas.

  • bob

    “There are many who will suffer financially if there is an Arsenal resurgence.”
    Doanythingformoney,
    To me your point on this is really important. Could you bring some specifics to the table on just who would lose, what they’d lose and why. The more light we shed on this, the sharper our vigilance becomes and more effective our counters to it.

  • bob

    Mandy, Shard,
    Cheers, 🙂

  • Adam

    Goona gal, the mans a legend. And your welcome. That’s physics, don’t get me started on geology.

    I like deGrasse’s comment about googling the “Big bang theory” and getting more hits on the TV show than the actual theory.

    Sums up society for me.

  • Adam

    I posted these awhile ago but they seem fitting.

    “One of the biggest problems with the world today is that we have large groups of people who will accept whatever they hear on the grapevine, just because it suits their worldview—not because it is actually true or because they have evidence to support it. The really striking thing is that it would not take much effort to establish validity in most of these cases… but people prefer reassurance to research.”

    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    “I would teach how science works as much as I would teach what science knows. I would assert (given that essentially, everyone will learn to read) that science literacy is the most important kind of literacy they can take into the 21st century. I would undervalue grades based on knowing things and find ways to reward curiosity. In the end, it’s the people who are curious who change the world.”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  • Adam

    Before you judge others or claim any absolute truth, consider that you can see less than 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum and hear less than 1% of the acoustic spectrum. As you read this, you are traveling at 220 kilometres per second across the galaxy. 90% of the cells in your body carry their own microbial DNA and are not “you”. The atoms in your body are 99.9999999999999999% empty space and none of them are the ones you were born with, but they all originated in the belly of a star. Human beings have 46 chromosomes, 2 less than the common potato. The existence of the rainbow depends on the conical photoreceptors in your eyes; to animals without cones, the rainbow does not exist. So you don’t just look at a rainbow, you create it. This is pretty amazing, especially considering that all the beautiful colours you see represent less than 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum.

  • Bootoomee

    Goona Gal,

    Thanks for the kind word. I enjoy reading your comments too.

    I expect dissent from people no matter how like minded they may be as I detest group think. I do expect rational dissent and not monotonous griping, like: “buy 3 to 4 world class players in order to win trophies”. I was vehement in my disagreement with many other Untolders on Suarez but I think I made my point very clearly. I am also against the transfer speculation game. I warned Tony when he wrote that Higuain’s deal is a foregone issue, that we should wait till Arsenal.com confirms the signing. I’m not glad we missed Higuain but I am right that we should have waited.

    I always present logical arguments on issues that I care about. I never sit on the fence: fence sitting is for cowards and and the ignorant.

    Again, thanks for the compliment!

  • Bootoomee

    Adam,

    Neil deGrasse Tyson is indeed a legend. He is best at breaking down complex scientific concepts and phenomena to lay people. He once had a cameo on The Big Bang Theory – the TV show.

  • Bootoomee

    Sperez,

    How is your post of 12.11am different from every other comment that you have posted on this site previously?

    Com’on dude, sing a different tune!

  • Adam

    He is best at breaking down complex scientific concepts and phenomena to lay people.

    That’s why I like him??????????????? the rest is math.

  • sperez

    And has Wenger changed his failed methods over the last years?

  • Adam

    Bored in Brazil Sperez?

  • iniez

    bob,
    Agree with many of the sentiments in your comment, very well put. A truce is most definitely in order. This crusade has given rise to a siege mentality so strong it’s leaving no room for negotation. It’s straight to torches and pitchworks and it just leaves a sour taste in everyones mouth. It’s all become so routinized. I feel as though fans are pushing themselves even further into their respective corners by virtue of their intolerance of the others opinion. Honestly what’s the point of resorting to insults anymore? Yes it’s satisfying but what does it achieve? It only hammers the wedge even further in, removing any chance of reconcilliation. I mean isn’t the point of all this fighting and arguing trying to convince the other of their view? How is that going to be achieved when there’s so much hate muddying the waters? You’re not going to want to agree with someone talking down to you or generalizing you

    Lets not sully the waters of discourse any further and instead allow it the space and nourishment it needs to thrive. Doing so will reveal who our true enemies are and we can then stamp them out as a collective. It is our club motto after all

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Take a break and have a laugh .

    Is Romance gone?

    The middle-aged couple had finally learned how to send and receive texts on their cell phones.

    The wife, being a romantic at heart, decided one day that she’d send her husband a text while she was

    out of the house having coffee with a friend.

    She texted:

    If you are sleeping, send me your dreams.

    If you are laughing, send me your smile.

    If you are eating, send me a bite.

    If you are drinking, send me a sip.

    If you are crying, send me your tears.

    I love you.

    The husband, being a no-nonsense sort of guy, texted back:

    I’m on the toilet. Please advise.

  • ARSENAL 13

    @Sperez, you like it or not football is a business now. You can never ever compete if you dont think and act like a business firm. Like any other business, profit/loss/cash-in-hand/bank balance/debt should be maintained in a stable/manageable position to take the next step.

  • joe

    EXACTLY the same crap as the last eight summer transfer windows. If you search the archives you will see that Wenger promised to buy “world class” players on several occasions – and produced nothing!! Why expect anything else guys? Wenger and the Board of Directors should’ve been thrown out years ago and they MUST go now!! AFC going down the pan!!

  • WalterBroeckx

    where are the pitchforks? Who brings on the fire?

    Joe is on his way to the Emirates to chase the lot away and set the place on fire.

  • Mick

    @Joe
    It looks probable that the greatest manager ever, Arsene Wenger, will sign a new contract tying him to the club for 3 more years. That would obviously be great news as far as most on this blog are concerned. The likes of you will have two options, carry on moaning and being unhappy for a few more years or embracing the fact and getting behind the club and manager. I wonder which will you choose?
    Why do you and your ilk think that the only way to ‘improve’ a squad is by buying big name players. There are other ways you know. For example Oxlade Chamberlain will likely be a better player this year as he develops with age. The same can be said for Jenkinson, Wilshere, Ramsey, Gibbs and Walcott. Others will be in their second season in the premier so are likely to show an improvement. The team as a whole will be more together collectively than they were last season. We will be better than last year even if we buy no one.

  • Bootoomee

    Walter,

    Oh I love it when you mock the fools!

  • Bootoomee

    Mick,

    You are so kind. I have no idea how you get the patience to reason with Joe. I think you are wasting your time as he is impervious to reason but kudos to you!

  • @Bootoomee
    I don’t have a grudge, I am just saying that I believe there are problems and ignoring them is not helpful. I have no problem with fans who want to just be positive, that is their right, but I don’t get the AAA link at all. The fact that you suggest if I think some fans are deluded means I am in some way Anti Arsenal just emphasises the problem with Arsenal fans as a group these days. One side insults the other and thus further entrenchment takes place. There is no such thing as the AAA. It is made up to demonise people with different opinions, much like the red under the bed of cold war America.

  • uk

    @jayram and bob, God bless you guys.

  • uk

    @bootoomee
    i get it that this is a forum where you can indulge in deluded, positive matters and that you dont need another’s perspective. what i dont get is why you think you must be. the blog’s mouthpiece. theres tony and theres walter, let them decide whether they run a blog thats only interested in indulging their emotions deluded or otherwise, and wether they are not interested in other’s perspectives
    and by the way as jayram puts it, what is optimistic/positive about insulting fellow fans, the press,refs,other clubs,fifa, uefa, the fa,shawcross,etc