Liverpool’s owner might be an expert liar, but he can’t do the maths

Posted on by Tony Attwood

By Tony Attwood

When you start boasting about your ability to tell lies it is not a bad idea to make sure there is nothing lurking around the corner with the ability to kick you in the teeth.

That’s not exactly one of the basic rules in public relations – for the first rule of PR is to admit nothing that might come back to haunt you, but I guess they do things different in Liverpool.

Which is presumably why that man at Liverpool FC admitted to being so clever at lying over the issue of what was and what was not in the contract of Suarez.

And yes I am sure there are many Liverpool supporters who think that their man in the board room has proven himself to be jolly clever in getting one over on those silly Londoners.  Except that these stories have a habit of coming back and kicking you rather firmly in the teeth.  Just as this one has done.

Because with Liverpool charging up the league (what with them not being in the Champions League and FA Cup) and talking up their chances of getting into the Champions League for the first time in four years next season, they release their annual accounts which are bad enough for them to be debarred from the League.

And here’s the irony, for if they had said to Arsenal, yes, for £40,000,001 you can have the maniac with the penchant for putting his teeth into human flesh, then they would have had a much easier chance of making their accounts fit the Uefa FFP formula.

Liverpool have managed to pile up losses of over £90m between 2011 and 2013 which by my maths (although probably not by the maths of the Liverpool board) is a little bit over £37m as allowed by FFP between 2011 and 2014.  But still, the board will probably say it was just a lie.  I mean this maths lark.  Who understands it?

Actually what I suspect they will say is that they spent most of this money on infrastructure – which is to say a new stadium.  Except they didn’t.  Build it that is.   For as the Ems has risen from the recycling plant the Liverpool ground is still… well, not to put too fine a point on it, nothing.

Yes, money was spent by George Gillett and Tom Hicks on the Stanley Park project, but as Liverpool said in their legal battles with those two, the old owners had no intention of building anything at all.  It was a con trick.

Which means that Liverpool’s boast about not selling Suarez is going to be followed by saying that they overspent and made a loss because of a con trick.   A lie and a con trick.  It is quite an interesting way to run a corporation.

Of course what Uefa makes of this is anyone’s guess, but if Liverpool do come in the top four this season, and if Uefa accept that the money Liverpool lost in the non-existent ground project is an allowable expense, there is mostly certainly going to be an appeal from whoever comes fifth.

So, while Liverpool could have avoided all this uncertainty by selling Suarez to Arsenal (assuming Arsenal really did put in a bid) Liverpool spent £53.3m on the Suarez contract extension, which all things considered, could be called careless.

Never mind the board can always lie to Uefa.

And then boast about it later.

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120 Replies to “Liverpool’s owner might be an expert liar, but he can’t do the maths”

  1. Doesn’t make any sense. The 50 mill we will make by keeping suarez and playing cl makes what you say rubbish. Never mind

  2. You need to look at a few more facts. UEFA are only looking at teams currently playing in European competition, therefore Liverpool will qualify next season under FFP even if they had made £400m in losses. The FFP rules state a whole host of things that can be discounted from losses including youth team expenditure (over £10m a year on that alone). Even if we were going to be assessed by UEFA, the financial experts reckon we’d still get in as we’d effectively write off the £50m interest free loan from FSG by converting it to equity.

  3. Hahahahahahahaha…..

    May be at the end of this season they’ll, probably, know ‘what we are smoking at the ems.’

    Mr Henry is claimed to be a wise man. That was before the Liverpool takeover……

  4. Time to start a petition, Arsenal fans are starting to be as obsessed with Liverpool as Man U fans.

  5. there are many smart alecs in this world … unfortunately most of them take this position out of fear … and the maniac with the penchant for popping that round thing into that bag thingy is the best on the planet at what he does … you were stitched up by a smart yank get over it !!!!!

  6. summer transfert
    out
    reina 10
    agger 10
    enrique 8
    allen 15
    borini 10
    assaidi 4
    lucas 15
    coutinho 20

    in
    moreno 18
    vertonghen 25
    caulker 10
    schneirderlin 15
    parejo 12
    isco 35
    rakitic 15
    firmino 12

    ————-mignolet————
    jonson–vertonghen–sakho–moreno
    schneirderlin—rakitic—gerrard
    ————–isco—————
    ——suarez——sturridge——

  7. So Liverpool FC’s owner has admitted he lied. In the world of business this happens all the time. So, why didn’t Arsenal’s legal team deal with this? Are the members of our legal team so innocent and inexperienced that they were unable to call this bluff? I bet David Dein would have done better.

  8. Hey Johno – you sound just like a Tottenham supporter. Whenever we analyse their interesting doings they write and ask why we are so obsessed by them. It is quite interesting that some clubs have supporters that do look into the wider world of football with interest, while others have that really inward looking approach.

  9. Raffa – that is actually wrong. Every team admitted to next season’s Champs League will have their finances examined this summer.

  10. Mike

    Stitched up assumes that we wanted to have Suarez. Arsenal have quite a tradition of covering their tracks when looking for a specific player, to avoid being out bid by Man C and Chelsea.

  11. Deary me – Arsenal fans are properly wound up about this John Henry thing. Perhaps you should examine the details of Liverpool’s accounts in greater detail, particularly since UEFA have confirmed that should Liverpool finish in European places this season, the accounts they just released won’t preclude them from competing in European competitions since most of their losses can be written off as infra-structure. So whatever your interpretation of this might be, UEFA don’t seem to have any problem with it.

    As for Henry’s comments – I’d take them with a little pinch of salt. What he’s essentially saying is that a clause existed but Liverpool chose not to sell because the clause was ambiguous. That has never been in question – Rodgers himself said the clause forced Liverpool to consider any bid over £40 million – they considered Arsenal’s bid and then refused it. Not sure what the confusion is about.

    Also, you may remember that Suarez’s advisers sought advice from the PFA who examined the contract and concluded that the clause did not force Liverpool to sell the player. So again, not sure why there is so much confusion here.

    And after all, it’s not like Arsenal would even want a cheating, racist scumbag of a player like Suarez at their morally incorruptible club anyway, is it…?!

  12. Yeh sounds like you fancy Arsenal to finish 5th and you are compiling your argument now, anyway if Liverpool do finish in the top 4 then it would be a minor miracle given the state the club was in only 2 1/2 years ago. So lets give credit were it’s due keeping Suarez and guiding the Reds to Champions League Football ahead of schedule. i think the club are in safe hands.

  13. Terry
    The contract was between Suarez and Liverpool, nothing to do with Arsenal, so it was not possible for Arsenal to go down the legal route, Dein or no Dein.

  14. TONY

    I suggest you do a spot of research before telling people they are wrong.

    only the clubs who took part in the champions league or europa league THIS season will have their accounts studied.

    this makes this story totally pointless lol

  15. Tony Attwood….Raffa is right Johnno is funny and right and your last point does not make sense since you cover your tracks by buying nothing.
    Very sorry about Jack Wiltshire great player, Agger should be looked in for that foul it looked real bad, still not sure if it was done on purpose and Agger is not known for that but it looked very bad and I hate to see that.

  18. Silly crying baby idiots = arse-anal fans 😉 Arsenal fighting for 4th,Liverpool fighting for the title 😉

  19. Tony Attwood, Raffa is right you are wrong.

    Only teams that are CURRENTLY playing in the CL will be assessed by UEFA.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1983108-liverpool-see-major-champions-league-obstacle-cleared-by-uefa?

    http://astralfootball.com/liverpool-not-yet-subjected-to-the-rules-of-uefa-financial-fair-play/26165?

    http://paisleygates.com/?p=16082

    http://www.insidefutbol.com/2014/03/05/liverpool-and-monaco-with-nothing-to-fear-from-uefa-financial-fair-play-rules-for-next-term/130608/?

    Also, if you guys didn’t want him why are you lot still going on about it?

  20. I must say that Liverpool supporters are from a totally different planet.
    Looking at the new comments it is amazing.
    I don’t know if people in Liverpool in general get any form of education but it sure looks as if the ones that scrambled on this site missed that part.
    As the house rules (look them up) are clear we don’t allow abuse that is nothing but abuse.

    Believe me we do you a favour by not publishing some as it only would embarrass decent Liverpool supporters who had an education.

  21. Confused. This myth has since been debunked as the finances have been calculated to be satisfactory, Liverpool aren’t in Europe so this rule isn’t significant and eggs have already confirmed this.
    This sounds like an odd article without any basis?

  22. Um liverpool are in debt but their total debt has declined each year since fsg came in….they are tracking well which is also a considerstion that ffp will make. And if john henry thinks he’s smart he must only be about as smart, or rather as smart alec as your mob who bid 1 pound above suarez release clause.

    If you dont think you’ll rub up a non-selling team the wrong with that kind of shameful bid then you’re just stupid

  23. Also confused by Walters comment. If comments cannot be just abuse how can his previous comment not be deleted as it only contains abuse about how Liverpool fans make themselves look uneducated by only posting abuse? Are people really that idiotic, independent of who they support.

    NOTE FROM ONE OF THE EDITORS : Because putting a lot of swearwords behind each other is abuse. Pointing at such things and because of reading a few dozens of them is telling the truth. That is why my comment is not abuse.

  24. The more decent ones can and will be published of course. But really is this the way people in Liverpool behave?

  25. The intellectual content of the comments seems to have gone down a tad today?

  26. We definitely do things differently here in Liverpool. We aim to win the competitions we enter. Arsenal are an insult to European football — you don’t deserve Luis Suarez. It’s that simple.

  27. Sorry Tony but Raffa is correct on the Financial Fair Play Rules.

    They start from the Profit After Tax figure and then begin adding back certain expenses.
    Any money spent on infrastructure, training facilities or youth development will not be included so all these items will be added back.

    The rules currently allows for eight separate punishments to be taken against clubs transgressing the rules, based in order of severity:
    Reprimand
    Fines (counterproductive)
    Points Deduction
    Withholding of Revenue from a UEFA competition
    Prohibition to register new players for UEFA competitions
    Restrictions on how many players a club can register for UEFA competitions
    Disqualification from a competition in progress
    Exclusion from future competitions

    Teams being investigated for next year’s competition have to have overspent during the first Monitoring Period (2011-2012) and have qualified for UEFA competition in 2012/13 and had a Break Even deficit in the 2011/12 season.

    In Liverpool’s case they are effectively saved by the fact that they did not take part in UEFA competitions in 2013/14.
    As a result, their accounts were not submitted to UEFA and they are not one of the 76 clubs that are currently being investigated. Liverpool will therefore be free to take part in the 2014/15 competition without any immediate penalty.

    The only ambiguity is when Liverpool are assessed for their 2014/15 entry. They will either have to submit the 2011-2012, 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 accounts or just the 2012-2013 & 2013-2014 accounts.
    I can imagine the owners will be putting equity into the club to cover it’s losses this year or there are items which are outside of the scope of FFP.

    The ground expense was a valid expense supported by building regulation and a business case to support the credit facility used to initiate the non existent stadium project.
    In any business projects are shelved despite committed spending taking place, these are Sunk Costs and are attributable to said project.

    Mini Essay Over!

  28. I am deafened by the silence of the Professional Footballers Assoc(trade Union)
    What we have heard is a football club saying they won`t honour a players contract and being proud of it.
    Why haven`t the PFA got off their arse and challenged L`pool to explain ?
    Our little arm biter now has a better contract, but that was a while after the breach of contract. A precedent has been set, “NO, I don`t like this contract, won`t abide by it”. Hopefully this will come back to bite the PFA, lazy complacent sods

  29. The PFA are standing on a knife edge, come out and criticize us and they risk a backlash from all clubs on players not respecting and honouring said contracts by refusing to play or turn up for training. Or in William Gallas’ case even threaten to score an own goal.

    Football is a careful game of politics

  30. Delano correct me if lm wrong but until last weekend we were 3pts better than liverpool and are now only behind on GD so how are liverpool going for the title and Arsenal aint???

  31. First of all, those saying our legal team should have looked into it, other teams are not permitted to read a player of another team’s contract. Why would you think that Suarez had to assume that the clause was there if he could read it?
    Also, the fact that somebody above said we’re fighting for fourth, while Liverpool are fighting for the title is a little funny. First of all, I’d like you all to note that we’re on the same amount of points as Liverpool. Liverpool’s defence is abysmal, and I think that Man united can take advantage of that at old Trafford. The also have Spurs, Chelski and City. As it is the last game of the season, I’m not sure if Chelsea will be comfortable enough to sit back and nick a point yet, but they will get at least a point. City will will or do the same. Spurs could also take a point. If Arsenal can beat spurs (which we do practically every year), and take a point from City (which we’ll do AT LEAST at the Emirates), and take a point from Chelsea, we’ll finish the season 2 point ahead of Pool. The rest of the games, we should win with ease. Everton and Newcastle are the only difficult ones left, and with Ramsey coming back into the team against Chelsea, we should pick up some momentum. Liverpool will fall out of form as soon as they drop two points.

  32. @ Terry, why would the PFA get involved? in this case they are looking after Suarez’s interests, and if he is happy with his pay rise and his new contract(and he’s got to be happy with the way he’s playing) then they don’t need to act.

    Personally I think criticising Liverpool’s owner for managing to retain their biggest asset and helping them push on in the league is a little bit sour grapes. He did what he needed to do to help his club push on, well done. He wins, the Scousers win, and Suarez wins. We don’t, but we’re not his responsibility are we.

  33. Makes total sense to me. Thanks for one of the most sarcastic articles I have seen for a long time. Very dry sense of humour Tony and one for my bookmarks because like you say, it is going to comeback and haunt them. It will at least prompt a more thorough investigation into the finances after the integrity of the club has been shredded with smug glee, not forgetting too it is undeniable after the owner’s public statement shouted this from the rooftops.

  34. Robl, as I said, our little arm biter has a better contract, BUT that was a while after the event
    A precedent has been set where clubs can honour or not a contract. If the club didn`t give an improvement to Suarez and Arsenal had bought a replacement(Ozil?).
    then Suarez would be left out of pocket. This is exactly what the PFA are supposed to be in business for. Obviously not to ensure players join Arsenal. We have all signed contracts, then thought after,”wish I hadn`t done that”
    Business, not just football depends on contracts being binding

  35. What a lot of people are missing is the fact that the so-called £40m buy-out clause was in fact a clause that allowed interested parties only to speak to the contract holder. It was not an agreed fee to buy him. This is why Suarez is not saying anything about the not-so-bright individual who is talking about taking legal action on his behalf. I agree with Robl The PFA will not take action because there is no case to answer and they know it. I’ve always believed that a contract is binding. Players have been dishonouring contracts for years. This time the club owner stood firm and for the time being, the contract will be honoured. I also think that what Mr. Henry said may be a bit of a wind-up

  36. Ar5ena1 fans are getting like ManUre fans lmao. Endless articles about how good Suarez is and how we need to let him go, then more articles about how rubbish and over-rated he is when it looked like they weren’t getting him, then more about how good he was when they upped the bid and how we should do the decent thing and let him go this time, then more articles about how bad and disgusting our owners are and how vile a person Suarez is when it was made clear to them they weren’t getting him.

    Now they are questioning our owners (again) and our finances, saying/hoping (incorrectly) that we won’t get into Europe because of FFP. What’s wrong lads, worried about not making top 4 and hoping FFP come to your rescue?

  37. Seems to me that it would have to be Suarez who would sue for breach of contract not Arsenal as we did not have a contract with Liverpool. And, Suarez’ reasons for doing what he did are not clear.

  38. It will be interesting to see how they cope playing in Europe and the league next season. They are on a two week holiday at the moment. They atre right about Suarez though. I would have loved to have got him but we didn’t so forget him. All our players fit and all theirs fit we’d piss on them every day of the week.

  39. do they realise that if they don’t win the league they’ll be potless? You’d think they’d already done the treble the way they go on.

  40. ROFLMAO, OMFG, to prove my point about Arsenal fans turning into ManUre fans, I’ve just seen that they have started another petition (after the “free Suarez” petition lmao) to have the FA investigate and ban Agger and to investigate Liverpool because they feel it was done deliberately to “destroy” Ar5ena1. ROFLMAO

    Here’s some quotes from the petition:

    “In the past few days it has been well-known that Liverpool FC have been on a campaign to destory Arsenal and we, the fans of Arsenal, believe Daniel Agger was instructed by Liverpool’s owner John Henry to target Jack Wilshere during the match.”

    “Jack Wilshere will be out for around 6 weeks, another damaging blow to Arsenal and Liverpool FC are to blame for this.”

    Jesus wept, this is amazing. Liverpool have mentally broken your team and we are only on the same points as you. Imagine if we start pulling ahead of you; I’d imagine the wheels will come completely off then and you will be all going mental. Wenger’s loving this because it takes the focus and the blame off him. It wouldn’t surprise me if we found out it was him that started the petition lmao.

    I think this actually makes you worse than the ManUre fans. They’ve never seemed this pathetic with their obsession.

  42. If you’re an Arsenal fan and you’re upset by “John Henry lying”, you’re kind of missing the point as to why Luis Suarez doesn’t play for you. If there’s a release clause in play, and your team meets the clause, it’s up to the PLAYER to agree to a move. The fact of the matter is that Suarez didn’t WANT to move to Arsenal. If they’d met the release clause (and we’ll simply skip over trying to figure out how Arsenal figured out what his release clause was. They knew precisely that it was £40m, hence the £40+1 bid, and as that wasn’t public knowledge, one might accuse Arsenal of having illicit knowledge of the contract, but nothing is going to happen to any of the parties involved, with the exception of Arsenal fans puckering their lips at the sour grapes they’re now eating), Suarez was aware of it, and made no effort to pursue that move.
    Now, why he didn’t might not be certain, and I won’t make any assumptions as to where he thought either team would end up at the end of the season, but it’s likely as simple as Suarez not wanting to move to a rival team in England. If he wanted out, it was seemingly to Spain, or maybe to Bayern, but clearly not Arsenal. And that may or may not be a specific sleight, it’s likely that he just didn’t want to hurt Liverpool, whom had been good to him.
    The only way Arsenal was ever going to sign Suarez is if they had bought him before he came to England. So instead of carrying on about John Henry lying and keeping Suarez hostage (and I’m aware that the #FreeSuarez campaign is likely satire), just let it go, because you’re embarrassing yourselves.

  43. Funny supporters.
    Not in Europe, failed in the league cup, failed in the FA cup, level on points with Arsenal: they are in a title fight while Arsenal is not.

    Yes, makes perfect sense 🙂

    “They” only enter a competition to win it. Yes we have seen that in the league cup and the FA cup so far.

    yes, they sure make perfect sense

  45. I also think it is a bit funny that they tell on this site that we should let it go (Suarez not coming to Arsenal that is)

    As far as I can remember most of us on Untold had big doubts about Suarez to Arsenal from a moral point of view. Most of us admit he is a great footballer but we didn’t like the idea that much that we might get our name dragged through the mud when he would act like a racist or bite another player in his love for eating human flesh.

    What we don’t like of course is that people lie and don’t respect contracts. That is something all supporters should want. If you only look at it short sighted (you still have Suarez), fine. But it might come back to haunt you one day. Maybe probably next summer already after the world cup. I think that some Spanish club might get him. After all what is his contract worth.

    Don’t worry once Madrid or Barcelona come calling he is off. He has previous of getting out of his contract before. Check his history in Holland. Enjoy it while it lasts.

  46. Honestly, all of this was made public by Suzrez and the Liverpool management. AW certainly didn’t hold a press conference. Most of us were very ambivalent and doubtful about Suarez joining us.

  47. “Most of us were very ambivalent and doubtful about Suarez joining us”

    I’d say you were more like a reed in the wind…

  48. It funny how these liverpoo fans come out when they are above us on goal difference yet were so quiet thinking would they make top 4 all season! G

  49. Shouldn’t charlie Adams be banned a further 6 games from the 2 other red cards?

  51. Think both us and Liverpool know where Suarez wants to end up very soon, and guess what, not at arsenal or Liverpool !

  52. I think too many Liverpool fans are taken in by what is reported in the press and don’t understand that to play in a UEFA tournament you have to have a licence.
    So what do you have to do to get a licence?
    Heres the rules

    Article 11 – Equal treatment and confidentiality
    1 The licensor ensures equal treatment of all licence applicants during the core
    process.
    Article 12 – Definition of licence applicant
    1 A licence applicant may only be a football club, i.e. a legal entity fully responsible
    for a football team participating in national and international competitions which
    either:
    a) is a registered member of a UEFA member league
    1 The licence applicant must prove that as at 31 March preceding the licence
    season it has no overdue payables (as defined in Annex VIII) towards its
    employees as well as social/tax authorities as a result of contractual and legal
    obligations towards its employees that arose prior to the previous 31 December.
    1 All licensees that have qualified for a UEFA club competition must comply with
    the monitoring requirements, i.e. with the break-even requirement (Articles 58 to
    63) and with the other monitoring requirements (Articles 64 to 68).

    The following clubs are exempt from the break-even requirement:
    a) a club that qualifies for a UEFA club competition on sporting merit and is
    granted special permission as defined in Article 15;
    b) a licensee that demonstrates it has relevant income and relevant expenses
    (as defined in Article 58) below EUR 5 million in respect of each of the two
    reporting periods ending in the two years before commencement of the
    UEFA club competitions. Such an exemption decision is taken by the UEFA
    Club Financial Control Body and is final.
    Article 15
    1 If a club qualifies for a UEFA club competition on sporting merit but has not
    undergone any licensing process at all or has undergone a licensing process
    which is lesser/not equivalent to the one applicable for top division clubs,
    because it belongs to a division other than the top division, the UEFA member
    association of the club concerned may – on behalf of such a club – request an
    extraordinary application of the club licensing system in accordance with
    Annex IV.
    2 Based on such an extraordinary application, UEFA may grant special permission
    to the club to enter the corresponding UEFA club competition subject to the
    relevant UEFA club competition regulations. Such an extraordinary application
    applies only to the specific club and for the season in question.

    Now irrespective of what the press I reporting if UEFA don’t apply this very basic requirement then they will leave themselves open to legal challenge.

    Next the £50 million that people keep going on about in relation to stadium expenses was written of in their 2010/11 accounts. The loan to clear the debt appeared in their 2012/13 PL

    Irrespective lets suppose they do dodge the FFP bullet this year the simple facts are that their losses in 2011-2013 are already way over the allowable sum and unless they post a massive profit in 2013/14 in 12 months they will be facing the exact same problem

  56. Mods, Why haven’t you published my two comments.

    Neither were abusive – even though you have allowed some serious shite. Bias perhaps.

  57. This piece seems to have been written as a reaction following recent events. Namely:
    1) Suarez – a player with whom Arsenal would have won the league – has just helped Liverpool leapfrogged Arsenal into 2nd.
    2) Arsenal supporters have been embarrassed by their much derided #FreeSuarez Twitter campaign and @freesuarez1 petition.
    3) Wilshere has just been accidentally injured by a Liverpool player.
    4) It appears like the familiar creaks that have appeared at this time of the season before, are not quite fixed.
    5) Nearly a decade without silverware, Wenger In/Out fanbase and playing second fiddle to Chelsea as No.1 in London…all has contributed to an uneasy, knee-jerk, blind and often paranoid set of supporters

  58. Its crazy to see Liverpool fans here. It must be because Untold would have appeared in their search engine. Thats a great achievement, dont you think Tony? Anyways, we all here knows that Liverpool are benefitting greatly from lack of European games this season. N your claim that the account on the year Liverpool were not in Euro is not included, thats ridiculous. Have any of you fellas took a loan from the bank before? Have any of you actively take responsibility to pay taxes accrdingly? Are you saying that expenditures occurred during your ‘exile’ is not shown in subsequent seasons even though that very expenditures are loans from the banks? Are you saying that Liverpool borrowed money and paid it back in one season? Do you think UEFA are so stupid that they dont check with the financial institutions that your owner borrows with various names and somehow links it back to Liverpool FC? These FFP rules are being enforced by financial regulators for god’s sake not by some uneducated 20 years old. Do you think you can act funny with your tax masters back home? Afterall, you have an owner who refuses to honour contract stipulations and a player who sold himself to the devil by getting himself a huge ‘bogus’ money from your ticket expenses to keep quiet. Dont you think the higher officials or even the law enforcers would take notice of that? Arsene can only approach the club to buy the player, if the club refuses, he or the Arsenal’s lawyers CANNOT view Suarez’s contract at all. If Arsene or the lawyers spoke to Suarez directly, that would be tapping up offense. Similar to Mourinho and Cole incident. And we all know how it end up. Thats why they first offered 25mil and then told about the 40mil release clause thus the infamous 40mil+1pound offer. Thank god, Arsene was smart enough to discontinue the bid because he was a lawful man and he sensed something corrupt was going on. Now, Liverpool shoot themselves on the foot when this story came about. We in Untold will discuss about it all we want because that is what we do. All the clubs including at Arsenal’s. When some say Arsene is money minded, they are fools because when did Arsene hold up against a player’s wish and play hard ball trying to sell him for a higher price like other clubs do? Look at the sales of van Persie, Fabregas, Henry and etc. All were at proper market price. Now that is financial responsibility. Not by selling for 50mil and buying for 30mil. Both the players end up being s**t now. The best of all was that Arsene practise this way, way before UEFA thought of FFP. Now, who’s your daddy?

  59. I apologize if some were taken off by my aggression and rudeness but please dont let money to take away our moral values and humanity.

  60. You guys who think Liverpool won’t be allowed into the champions league next year are deluded lol

    but I guess by the time it’s undeniable you will have forgotten all about the humble pie you should be eating for being so arrogant to think you know more about the workings of a club you don’t even support than the people running it.

    Could all mean nothing if Liverpool fall out if the top 4

    THE PFA EXAMINED SUAREZ CONTRACT AND FOUND THE CLAUSE DID NOT MEAN LIVERPOOL HAD TO SELL

    sorry but some of you guys seem a bit deaf 🙂

  61. As Mr. Smith was on his death bed, he attempted to formulate a plan that would allow him to take at least some of his considerable wealth with him. He called for the three men he trusted most – his lawyer, his doctor, and his clergyman. He told them, “I’m going to give you each $30,000 in cash before I die. At my funeral, I want you to place the money in my coffin so that I can try to take it with me.”

    All three agreed to do this and were given the money. At the funeral, each approached the coffin in turn and placed an envelope inside.

    While riding in the limousine back from the cemetery, the clergyman said, “I have to confess something to you fellows. Brother Smith was a good churchman all his life, and I know he would have wanted me to do this. The church needed a new baptistery very badly, and I took $10,000 of the money he gave me and bought one. I only put $20,000 in the coffin.”
    The physician then said, “Well, since we’re confiding in one another, I might as well tell you that I didn’t put the full $30,000 in the coffin either. Smith had a disease that could have been diagnosed sooner if I had this very new machine, but the machine cost $20,000 and I couldn’t afford it then. I used $20,000 of the money to buy the machine so that I might be able to save another patient. I know that Smith would have wanted me to do that.”
    The lawyer then said, “I’m ashamed of both of you. When I put my envelope into that coffin, it held my personal check for the full $30,000.”

  62. After reading the comments from the visitors ,it reminded of this joke .

    A man took a trip out West after a harrowing divorce proceeding. He stopped in a bar, and after a few drinks, stated to no one in particular, “Lawyers are horses’ asses.”
    One of the locals spoke up on hearing this: “Mister, you’d better watch what you say. You’re in horse country.”

  63. Lets face it, Liverpool have benefitted from an amazing fixture schedule this season. Just before the New year, Liverpool played Man City and Chelsea, back to back. This is the only time they play a top 5 side back to back, throughout the whole season. Even the return fixtures of Man City and Chelsea have been separated, unlike Arsenal, I may add!! So with these very favourable fixtures, and being eliminated quickly from the Domestic Cup competitions, and of course NOT playing in Europe, it’s no surprise Liverpool have done reasonably well this season. Maybe next year Arsenal will get such a favourable fixture list, but doubt it.

  64. You could always substitute the following with a club owner , a player , a referee , the PFA chairman ,etc..

    Lawyer And Irs Agent

    If a lawyer and an IRS agent were both drowning, and you could only save one…

    Would you go to lunch or read the newspaper?

  65. -The Bronze Rat

    A man walks into a small shop looking for a decoration for his house, he see’s a bronze rat and likes it so he takes it to the register.
    The clerk takes one look at what the man is holding and says, “Hello sir, thats a very old statue you have there,
    it would cost you 25 dollars just to buy the statue,
    but 100 dollars for me to tell you the story behind it.”
    Thinking this was just a scam he said “I just want the rat, thank you” and walked out of the store.
    Suddenly a rat appears and follows him, then another, and another, soon thousands of rats were following him and he ran as fast as he could away from them. soon he reached the bay and he threw the statue into it.
    After this he returned to the store, and when the clerk sees him he says, “Hey, want to pay for the story now?”
    The man says “Oh no, i was just wondering if you had any bronze lawyers?”

    (Personally , I ‘d gone for the bronzed AAAA !)

  66. “Don’t confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are.”

    ― Frank Ocean

  67. HE SAID , SHE SAID ….

    Four stages of marriage:
    Mad for each other,
    Made for each other,
    Mad at each other
    Mad because of each other.

    Definition Of Happy Couple –
    HE Does What SHE Wants…
    SHE Does What SHE Wants.

    Mistakes
    ‘Laughing At Your Own Mistakes, Can Lengthen Your Life.”- Shakespear
    “Laughing At Your Wife’s Mistakes,Can Shorten Your Life.”- Shakespear’s Wife

  69. This is for all those Liverpuddle fans who are on here gloating on their ‘rapid ‘ rise up the table . Do take care to treat others with respect on your way up , as you may pass them again on your down .
    A great example ,from..
    http://www.nerdtests.com/jokes.php?id=141

    AUSTRALIAN BRICKLAYER`S REPORT
    This is a bricklayer’s accident report, which was printed in the
    newsletter of the Australian equivalent of the Workers’ Compensation board.

    This is a true story. Had this guy died, he’d have received a Darwin Award for sure…….

    Dear Sir,

    I am writing in response to your request for additional information in Block 3 of the accident report form. I put “poor planning” as the cause of my accident. You asked for a fuller explanation and I trust the following details will be sufficient.

    I am a bricklayer by trade. On the day of the accident, I was working alone on the roof of a new six-story building. When I completed my work, I found that I had some bricks left over which, when weighed later were found to be slightly in excess of 500lbs.

    Rather than carry the bricks down by hand, I decided to lower them in a barrel by using a pulley, which was attached to the side of the building on the sixth floor. Securing the rope at ground I went up to the roof, swung the barrel out and loaded the bricks into it. Then I went down and untied the rope, holding it tightly to ensure a slow descent of the bricks.

    You will note in Block 11 of the accident report form that I weigh 135lbs.

    Due to my surprise at being jerked off the ground so suddenly, I lost my presence of mind and forgot to let go of the rope. Needless to say, I proceeded at a rapid rate up the side of the building. In the vicinity of the third floor, I met the barrel, which was now proceeding downward at an equally impressive speed. This explained the fractured skull, minor abrasions and the broken collar bone, as listed in section 3 of the accident report form. Slowed only slightly, I continued my rapid ascent, not stopping until the fingers of my right hand were two knuckles deep into the pulley.

    Fortunately by this time I had regained my presence of mind and was able to hold tightly to the rope, in spite of beginning to experience pain. At approximately the same time, however, the barrel of bricks hit the ground and the bottom fell out of the barrel. Now devoid of the weight of the bricks, that barrel weighed approximately 50 lbs. I refer you again to my weight. As you can imagine, I began a rapid descent, down the side of the building. In the vicinity of the third floor, I met the barrel coming up.

    This accounts for the two fractured ankles, broken tooth and several lacerations of my legs and lower body. Here my luck began to change slightly. The encounter with the barrel seemed to slow me enough to lessen my injuries when I fell into the pile of bricks and fortunately only three vertebrae were cracked.

    I am sorry to report, however, as I lay there on the pile of bricks, in pain, unable to move, I again lost my composure and presence of mind and let go of the rope and I lay there watching the empty barrel begin its journey back down onto me. This explains the two broken legs.

    I hope this answers your inquiry.

  70. Liverpool FC are a great club with an incredible variation of support. Suffice to say that in LFC shop, we were told that product would not have a chance of ‘not’ being stolen because ‘the scum of the earth pass through here’.

    Liverpool were supported by Littlewoods (Moores) and the finances kept them in contention for top honours. They have had some phenominal footballers and superb teams. They have won honours as a result but have declined due to lack of funding and poor results.

    Their current squad have done well and results have improved. They are still a poor achieving club compared to achievement under the Moores.

    I’m sure the accounts that Liverpool submit will be acceptable by UEFA in spite of the stolen hub caps, car radios etc. not being accounted for.

    All right! all right!

  71. Interesting Mike T, seems like they are in a bit of a negative spiral regarding FFP. There will soon be double your money for being in the ECL, so who can blame teams for throwing the kitchen sink at getting there, but FFP stops that.
    Have a feeling that after this year when the dust settles, it will be the same old four in the CL

  72. @Mandy

    Whilst I think they will be subjected to FFP, I doubt very much that UEFA will be able to enforce what I know many on here thought, expected , or in some instances prayed for.

    The more I do any sort of research the more I believe UEFA got themselves are in a total mess and for me it shows the lack of leadership but also the fact that they didn’t focus on the simple objective of managing debt within each club( which they claimed was the issue).
    It would have been easy to say that from a clubs debt, as reflected in accounts you can deduct money spent on infrastructure but nothing else and if debt exceeded say 50% of the turnover averaged over the last say 3 years you would pass FFP
    But no Platini and his German cronies tried to focus on English football .To be fair he didn’t know how much media income in the EPL would grow and the more I read the more I feel that from this season on none of the English clubs will have any problem with FFP as it stands

    Returning for a second to exclusions that

  73. they say will save them the wording about discounting wage for players signed pre 2010 the wording is subjective . It says in effect if your accounts are showing an improvement you can factor in but there isn’t really any explanation as to what they mean by improvement. bearing in mind Liverpool losses for the 10 month period in 2011/12 was £40 million and for a 12 month period 2012/13 was £49 million does that mean there is an improvement?

  74. @Brickfields Gunners,
    God bless you and your funny bone.
    Couldn’t dredge one up about a sottish Scottish bank scenting some money to be made from Liverpool FC’s participation in next year’s champion’s league and applying their considerable financial muscle to massage them through, could you?

  75. This question on the nerd test I posted in a another article had me thinking .

    Q 54. Are you bilingual?

    Does a forked tongue make one bilingual ?

    Is the Liverpool owner just following his forefathers and predecessors’ questionable statements, actions and example ?

    ” The great white father in Washington has only your wellbeing in mind with this treaty .”

    ” I’m not a crook !”

    ” Mission accomplished !”
    also .. ” Choke ! Splutter !Gag !”

  76. Mike T some how I think if they are in the top 4 they will still play… as we should have won the league a few times… like how OJ simpson got away and R Kelly lol

  77. @ Ugandan Goon – look what I found at

    http://www.ahajokes.com/bus170.html

    I’m at the wrong bank
    Letterman’s Top Ten Signs You’re Doing Business With The Wrong Bank

    10. When you make a deposit, tellers high-five each other.

    9. After you get a free toaster, bank president shows up at your house begging for toast.

    8. Your monthly statements are handwritten, in crayon.

    7. When you want to make a withdrawal, clerks suddenly don’t speak English.

    6. You notice Kato Kaelin is sleeping in the vault.

    5. Your safety deposit box is a Dunkin’ Donuts carton wrapped in tin foil.

    4. All cash deposits go directly into teller’s pants.

    3. Lobby is waist-deep in Mexican pesos.

    2. Toll-free customer service line is: 1-800-GET-HOSED.

    1. Four words: Bank President Rosa Lopez

  78. Newest ATM machines
    “The fees for withdrawing money from your ATM machines are expected to double, even triple. You’re gonna pay two to three as much to withdraw your money so basically the ATM machines have become full service. Instead of getting robbed at the ATM machine the ATM machine robs you. You eliminate the middle man.” – Jay Leno

  79. Royal Bank of Scotland – Joke from…

    http://www.yours.co.uk/Community/Forums/Forum-Categories/Topic/?&topic-id=388531

    The Banking Crisis Explained

    Young Paddy bought a donkey from a farmer for £100.
    The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day.

    The next day he drove up and said, ‘Sorry son, but I have some bad news. The donkey’s died.’Paddy replied, ‘Well then just give me my money back.’

    The farmer said, ‘Can’t do that. I’ve already spent it.’
    Paddy said, ‘OK, then, just bring me the dead donkey.’

    The farmer asked, ‘What are you going to do with him?’

    Paddy said, ‘I’m going to raffle him off.’

    The farmer said, ‘You can’t raffle a dead donkey!’

    Paddy said, ‘Sure I can. Watch me.. I just won’t tell anybody he’s dead.’

    A month later, the farmer met up with Paddy and asked, ‘What happened with that dead donkey?’

    Paddy said, ‘I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two pounds a piece and made a profit of £898’

    The farmer said, ‘Didn’t anyone complain?’

    Paddy said, ‘Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two pounds back.’

    Paddy now works for the Royal Bank of Scotland

  80. An old one but seems relevant somehow…

    Can’t understand what Liverpool fans are so angry about!

    Their club is effectively owned by the Royal Bank of Scotland, who are majority-owned by the hard-working British taxpayer.

    So the only way Liverpool fans don’t have a stake in their own club, is if some smart-arse suggests that scousers aren’t hard-working taxpayers.

    Read more: http://www.sickipedia.org/sports/football/cant-understand-what-liverpool-fans-are-so-angry-about-their-694561#ixzz2vHCv9MO3

  81. Liverpool fans..

    …”it’s NEVER our fault”…

    ….”Ok so we lie, cheat and make false accusations, get over it”….

    ….”yeah, we have got the biggest cheating, diving, obnoxious little git ever to grace the Premiership, but no matter what, we still love Stevie !!”…

    …..”Oh, you meant the other one? Yeah we love him as well, and we’ve got the T Shirts to prove it”….

    Liverpool fans aye…salt of the earth and SOOOOOOOOOOO funney !!

  82. Why is this site censoring the replies from Liverpool fans??!

    I have posted 3 comments that contained no abuse whatsoever yet despite several attempts (and a duplicate message) my comment from yesterday is still not up.

    Instead I am reading several comments from Arsenal fans who are quite clearly confused about FFP and PL contracts.

    I know this is an Arseblog but if you are going to call out Liverpool FC, it’s owner, players and fans then you should allow balanced responses.

    Otherwise you look very immature and bias.

  83. @Brickfields Gunners,
    Thank you for that little broadside, i think there will be enough there for when liverpool are having their issues.

  84. Gaz

    Where as saying….”I want to know what they are smoking down there” and “He has NOT got a buy out clause”…. without the opportunity for a balanced response, is not immature or biased at all then …….!!!

    We are just fans on a blog. I maintain we have every right to be a tad immature and biased.

    Where as those responsible for the above statements are supposed to be directors of a once great and proud football Club, who should behave in an honest, respectful way, affording there peers professional courtesy at all times, should they not?

    Liverpool fans. SOOOOOOOO Funny.

  85. Gaz,
    it might be possible that between the tens of comments we had to delete that contained words I will not use (as I only use them sometimes when I am alone or in the football stadium) that some other posts might have been removed by accident.
    The fact that your later posts appeared show that we don’t just ban any Liverpool supporters from commenting. And I think there are enough other comments to be seen from other Liverpool supporters.

  86. Jambug,

    I posted two replies that highlighted the stupidity, ignorance and childishness on display by the contributors of this site. Neither was published.

    Yet the comments I have read have been largely made by gullible and uninformed Arsenal fans showing all the wit and class of a bunch on Mancs.

  87. Walter, i will take your response in good faith.

    I did try and post several times over at least an hour but I guess I suffered the same “collective punishment” that you attempted with people from Liverpool.

    Your very childish statement regarding the education of Liverpool citizens (seemingly ignorant of their global fanbase) really showed you up.

  88. Yeah, well done Walter, by showing his comment complaining about his other comments not being posted (the ones we he actually proves a point and shows you how wrong you are), that proves you don’t ban Liverpool fans’ comments; just the ones that prove you wrong.

    Yet you’re quite happy to post Brickfields inane dribblings.

  90. Quotes from a very good book –

    http://www.openbible.info/topics/fool

    Proverbs 26:3-12 ESV /

    A whip for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, and a rod for the back of fools.
    not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.
    Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.
    Whoever sends a message by the hand of a fool cuts off his own feet and drinks violence.
    Like a lame man’s legs, which hang useless, is a proverb in the mouth of fools.

  91. “I’ve never fooled anyone. I’ve let people fool themselves. They didn’t bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn’t argue with them. They were obviously loving somebody I wasn’t.”

    Norma Jean Baker

    From..
    http://www.lifeters.com/marilyn-monroe-quotes/

  93. I saw an alcohol ad saying please drink responsibly. That’s odd; the internet doesn’t tell you to not be a bigoted jerk.

  94. Gaz

    I see the old ‘chip’ sneaking through regarding United.

    I must admit I hold no love for united but what they’ve done to you must really hurt.

    Oh well at least it looks like you’ll finish above them this year. Must feel good after all those years of living in there shadow.

  96. Things we say of the AAAA – and they are all true !
    Goodnight ,guys – it has been a hoot !

    He has a strange growth on his neck– his head.

    He says he has a mind of his own. He’s welcome to it– who else would want it?

    He’s the world’s greatest proof of reincarnation– no one could get that dumb in just one lifetime.

    He should study to be a bone specialist — he has the head for it.

    He has one of those mighty minds — mighty empty.

  97. I hope LFC fail to qualify, I get more joy seeing them suffer than the dirty Mancs. I just hate LFC for everything it represents, I despise their fans especially the glory hunting Asians.

    Witnessing the fall and realisation their sorry followers coming to terms with the lack of funds they actually generate is bliss.

  98. @dan

    Asians? Not very nice of you to only chastise one race. Mind telling me what race are you?

    Gunner6

  99. I posted on here in good faith, using facts and insight into the article, and we get idiots like Dan posting racist comments. I guess Arsenal don’t have any Asian oriented fans, and everyone is of the “white master race”. Every club has idiots, all of them! Banter is great, it’s what makes football the greatest sport on earth, but FFS cut out the racism.

  100. Jambug, I’ll decide what’s sufficient enough for my answer, thank you.

    No I haven’t seen the deleted comments, but in his other comments Gaz explains what the content of these comments were, i.e point out how childish and ignorant some of the Arsenal fans are on here (this includes you) and information on why Liverpool won’t fall foul of the FFP rules this Summer.

    One last thing, please learn the difference between There, they’re and their; it really isn’t that difficult.

  101. Oh yes Jambug,

    I am swimming in my envious bile after their 20 year dominance, leaving them still trailing LFCs major trophy haul.

    I have been so upset winning both domestic cups several times and both European trophies since I last saw LFC winning the league.

    What are they, two league titles ahead and two behind in Europe? Hmmm.

  104. @Gunner6
    @Gaz
    @Rafa the Gaffer

    Oh, I’m Asian, can I be racist to other’s like me?
    I guess I must of hit a nerve with ” glory hunting Asians”

    Where I live the (Asian – me so sorry), either support Man u or LFC, now not all but the vast majority do. You may wonder where I live, that would be the West Midlands.
    I’ve been asked numerous times how on earth did You end up supporting the Arsenal?
    Therefore does than mean they are stereo typing me based upon my race?

  105. Based on our experience on Untold I could have told the ‘smart’ people out there that Dan probably would be Asian himself. 🙂
    I don’t think that there are much racist on Untold to be honest. Our regular readers and the editors would not tolerate such language.

  106. @dan

    I am Asian too. I suggest you cool it on the race reference – insult intended or not.

    Glory hunters are not exclusive to one race only.

    To play devil’s advocate, it is no surprise Asians are generally Liverpool or Manure supporters. Media and TV coverage usually revolve around these two clubs. Taking Malaysia, where I come from, as an example.

    You get more variety nowadays but more often than not, those two teams will get the bulk of the broadcast.

    If you have no allegiance to any club but with the extensive coverage of these two teams, is it any surprise they get plenty of Asians supporters?

    Back to your point, there will always be those who follow trophies. But your reference to Asians only is a step too far.

  107. Dan,

    You “hate Liverpool” and “despise” them for their “Glory-hunting Asian fans”.

    Which Asians?
    The ones since 2005 CL triumph?
    Or the millions that were hooked on the “Beautiful Red wave” they witnessed on TV throughout the 70s and 80s?

    Oddly, you state that you prefer Man. Utd. Really? With their much-maligned glory-hunting fanboys?

    As I mentioned, you are a troll (I never accused you of uttering racist comments, my post was succinct so it won’t take you too long to reread it).

  109. @dan

    The Arsenal supporter base is worldwide and all people are welcome as fans – if you support Arsenal that is the criteria. On UA this is especially true.

    I can’t comment on Liverpool fans – but I would have hoped that they would have had the same outlook, sadly by your experience that may not be the case.

    Matt & Gaz are rather nasty trolls – don’t be annoyed by them.

  110. @Gunner6

    How is Asian a race reference? May be you’d like me to narrow it down to the ethnicity. A little too sensitive, I agree glory hunting is not exclusive to one group.

  111. @bjtgooner

    Cheers, I’ll sleep better knowing people do understand.
    If I’ve offended anyone, please accept my apology.

  112. @dan

    Be that as it may, when you use the term “glory hunting Asians”, it takes your comments out from football to an unpleasant area.

  113. @Gunner6

    unpleasant area? Would that be Mersyside?

    Glory Hunting, a certain group is more vocal and more unashamedly proud of it. That’s my observation, my experience as a whole has lacked a positive outcome.

  114. @dan

    Gunner6 is trying to be helpful. If you said “a section of glory hunting (Liverpool) fans” – that is acceptable. But when you say “glory hunting Asians”, that could be taken as racist, or derogatory to the Asian peoples – and is not acceptable.

    I know you did not intend either of those meanings, especially as you yourself are of Asian extraction.

    I hope this is helpful.

  116. Btj,

    “Gaz is a nasty troll”.

    Yet you offer no evidence for this. Congratulations on joining this debate so late in the day, you’ve added nothing to it other than attempting to belittle a poster who has offered warranted criticism of the article.

  119. Hold on, your game had finished, what, 30 minutes before you posted that comment? You win a big game like that and all you can think about is me? I’m blessed 😉

  120. Good luck tonight, Arsenal.

    I don’t go in for the ‘supporting English clubs in Europe’ crap (how could I ever root for a bullying, rich Man. U or a bullying, rich Chelsea?!)

    But I do like the style that Wenger wants his teams to play with, so I will be rooting for them.

    Besides, by the attitude of some of you fans, you need a lift. The evident fixation with Liverpool and Suarez is unbecoming and I think it is time you focused (and got behind) your team and Manager.

    #GoLickThemArse

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