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Why does Untold support Mr Wenger?

This comment was published on Untold this morning.  I reprint it here in full…

I feel compelled to post on untold.
Why is that it’s never Wenger’s fault.
You blame the referee, goal line technology, the pitch, windy conditions etc but you never ascribe any blame to Wenger.

Starting the season with 6 defenders.
Not buying a quality defending e midfielder and relying on the likes of Flamini.
Loading up average players on a £185,000,000 wage bill, third in the league.
Buying a £43,000,000 world class player and playing him continuously out of position.

Yes! It’s never Wenger’s fault.

Notice I tried really hard not to name-call.
Untold is living up to its reputation

—————————

The comment, like most comments which are not abusive or unrelated to the matters we discuss, was published.

But I thought I might answer at some length – just to get this subject dealt with once and for all, so we can then move back to talking about football.

So here are ten reasons.  They are not in any sort of order, and they are not of equal merit.

1.  The clue is in the name

I called this blog Untold when I started it, because I felt there were stories relating to Arsenal and football that no one else published, and campaigns that needed to be heard.  I never knew Untold would grow to the size it has, nor that it would last this long, but as its name tells you, it is here to put forward a point of view that is not heard elsewhere.

One of these approaches is a pro-Wenger approach – and indeed this is why I always find the arguments of those whose comments we don’t print rather odd.  Let me give a parallel.  In England we have a raft of rabid anti-EU newspapers – papers like the Daily Express and Daily Mail.  That is the stand they take.  We have the Guardian, which is more liberal and open minded, but likes to knock Arsenal.  Everyone has a view.

The notion that there are any blogs or newspapers that are truly independent of any ideology or view of the world is just silly.  I can only suggest anyone who feels that there are such publications takes a long course in media studies, psychology and sociology.

So my starting point is, “What would be the point of this blog if it were the same as the rest?”  My answer is there would be no point.

The difference between the way I see the Daily Express and Daily Mail, and the way people who don’t like Untold see Untold, is that I just accept that the Express and Mail, fanatical right wing papers that they are, are not going to be changed by me moaning about them.  For some bizarre reason a lot of people think they are going to change my view.

2.  It’s a psychological thing

The attacks on the management and indeed on players only ever have a negative effect, so quite simply the negativity that I have called the AAA only makes things worse.  Indeed many people have written in claiming that Mr Wenger is an idiot because he does something that fails and does it again.  They then falsely ascribe to Einstein the quote that doing something that doesn’t work over and over again is a sign of madness.

I would not say that the AAA are mad, just misguided, in failing to realise that their activities make things worse.  They have criticised Mr Wenger for years, but had no effect.  Why carry on doing something that doesn’t work?

But Arsenal has suffered from negativity from its earliest days, indeed the club we know was founded from a split within Royal Arsenal FC which led it to divide into two factions – Woolwich Arsenal FC and Royal Ordnance Factories FC.  The latter failed after four years.

There were newspaper comments about the way the fans were turning on the players in the late 19th and early 20th century, there was another total split in the club again between 1910 and 1913, (only resolved through the selfless work of Jack Humble, one of the founders).  Herbert Chapman railed ceaselessly against what by then were called the boo-boys.  And so it went on.  This is sadly how Arsenal is, and what always holds Arsenal back.

Indeed there is an article “How the Arsenal fans almost destroyed a wonderful player”    It is about Jack Lambert who played in the 1920s and 1930s.

Read your Arsenal history and you will find that after being knocked out of the cup by Walsall, Arsenal, clearly the greatest club in the land, was jeered and booed by its own supporters endlessly.

My point is the AAA and its forefathers have been criticising Arsenal, the players and the management since the foundation of the club – but it has never done any good.  I mean there were even complaints about Wenger in 1996.   And between 1998 and 2000 with the three consecutive second places to Man U.  If he’d responded to the criticism and gone then there would have been no 49 and no Unbeaten Season.

So, criticism of Arsenal management and players is as old as the club, and there is no sign of it ever working for the good.

3.  Evidence

Because I studied psychology, and with that did some science (neurophysiology mostly) I value evidence.   What I see from the AAA for the most part is a lack of evidence, and a lack of taking in all the issues.  Take the issue of the six defenders.   I agree a further defensive signing would have been good if we could have got a decent player, who wanted to come to Arsenal, while  knowing that he would quite possibly spend most of the season on the bench.

As it happens he would have been getting games this coming week – but at the time no one knew that, and most top players want games.  So the chances are the only players who could have come in were either more youngsters like Chambers or younger players.

But we have younger players already.  We have at least three young defenders who are decent and getting better week by week.

So to me the issue is one of examining such evidence as we have.  We don’t have enough defenders – true – but before the season started I doubt that any real quality defenders above the age of 19 would have signed for us given who we had lined up in defence.

So why let Vermaelen go when we could have held on to him?  Because these things are noticed.  If we had kept him he might not have played (because had our injuries been all in midfield he would never have played.)  And players look at this.  Clubs get a reputation for being difficult about transfers or being reasonable about them – as with everything else.  They would have looked at Vermaelen, refused a transfer, never getting a game, and said, “I’m not going to Arsenal”.

Sadly, Arsenal’s reputation among players is for having supporters who will turn on the club even when the club is undefeated in the league.  Players notice, and decide where they want to go.  To my mind, the AAA is at best not helping our cause in trying to bring in good players in their early 20s.  Letting Vermaelen go when he wanted to, ensured our reputation among players for doing the decent thing.

4.  Who is available?

Just because a blog says a player is available does not mean he is, nor does it mean he wants to come to Arsenal.  Many of the transfers talked up are never going to happen because the player doesn’t want to leave his club, and/or the club doesn’t want him to go.  Maybe there was a player better than Flamini and Arteta who was available, and willing to come to Arsenal.  I am not sure there was.

5.  It’s the team

Not every player can play in every team.  Teams are not individual players, they are a combination of styles, abilities and interactions, and clubs buy players to blend into that system.  However 99% of the commentaries I read are about individual players, rather than the way they actually fit together as a team.   So, going back to defenders, the simplicity of the AAA approach of “starting the season with only 6 defenders” is a false argument in many ways because not only does it not take into account that many players won’t want to come to Arsenal there are others who won’t be that good for us, because of the way the team has been built.

That’s not just an Wengerian thing – all teams are built to work in certain ways, and you can’t just undo that in a trice.

I don’t run a football team, but I do run a company, and I don’t go out and offer a job to someone just because they are a brilliant sales person, or a brilliant accountant, or God’s gift to administration.  I look at them also to see how they will fit into the team I have.  I look at their particular skills, and their personality, and their drive and desire, and how much salary they want, how open to new ideas they are, and so on.

I rarely if ever see AAA arguments that get into this level of complexity.

6.  Some stories are false.

In fact a lot of the stories that circulate about Mr Wenger and the team are utterly false.  I’m not an insider at the club, but I do watch stories rise and fall, and it is clear that a lot of the stories that relate to knocking Mr Wenger are stories that turn out to be completely untrue.  Which really takes us back to evidence – a central theme here.  I like to deal in evidence, not simplistic observation.

7.  Where is the knowledge?

I know I would be useless as a manager.  I know when I look at the Arsenal team – or indeed any team – I can’t see why Mr Wenger has done x or y.  I watched Pires in his first season, and said to my pal Roger, who I had been watching the Arsenal with for 15 years – “I don’t get it”.    I said much the same about Henry for the first season!  Roger couldn’t grasp why we ever gave Lee Dixon a game.

But maybe these people in the AAA who have this clarity of vision about what we should do should be managers.  After all there are tens of thousands of clubs out there – so why not go and manage one and show everyone that you can do it?

Then you will be able to rise up the rankings and demonstrate that yes you do know best.  But until then, you will forgive me for thinking that a man who has the third highest percentage win rate of any manager in Arsenal’s history knows more about success than you do or I do.  How could it be otherwise?

This is a fundamental point.  I don’t think I know more about football tactics and management than Mr Wenger, so I lay off him.  But I possibly know more about media manipulation, and through Walter’s work I know a lot about referees and the way they operate.  I know a lot about time-wasting, and I was the person who spotted rotational fouling as being run by certain teams.  So I write about what I know about, and don’t pretend that I know more about football management than a man who has won more honours for Arsenal than anyone else.

And indeed Mr Wenger’s percentage win rate goes up year by year.  And to be clear he in only third in the win percent table because above him are Pat Rice who managed four games, and Joe Shaw who managed 23.  Mr Wenger’s figure of 57.23% is over 1010 games.  All done without massive foreign investment (in the style of Chelsea and Man C) and without bankrupting the club (in the style of Portsmouth). And last year was the highest of all.

8.  Mr Wenger therefore can be said to have proven himself.

Some people only see success in terms of trophies won.

In this regard Herbert Chapman was a failure (3 trophies in 8.5 years) and so was George Graham (six trophies in 8.5 years including two league cups, but also including that awful period with the lowest number of goals scored and the lowest number of goals conceded, and seriously declining crowds and league position).  Graham’s  win rate was 48.91%   (All these figures are to be found on the Arsenal History Society site).

Whichever way you look at it Mr Wenger is our most successful manager, in terms of trophies, unprecedented achievements, and win rate over time.  Yes we went a long spell without winning, but Arsenal have done this many times before.  The difference this time was that we continued near the top, rather than flirting with relegation as we did under managers like Bertie Mee, Terry Neil, Herbert Chapman etc etc.

I’d love to go back to the earlier part of Mr Wenger’s reign and have us at the top each season, but what we have had has been success unprecedented in the history of post-war Arsenal.

9.  Who would manage us instead?

Chelsea and Man City, with all the wealth at their disposal up to FFP were not able to guarantee victory all the time, and Man U, the richest club in England prior to the oil money influx, spent decades trying to find someone who could generate success. They found Ferguson – but nearly succumbed to the pressure of their own version of AAA to sack him, before he got a lucky break, and then moved forwards.

Not every manager is available, not every manager who ought to be successful turns out to be successful, and not every manager manages the club in an exciting way.  I can only believe that many of those people who want Wenger out forget or were not there, during much of Graham’s career.  Everyone remembers Micky Thomas’ goal, but there was much more to the Graham years than that and some of it was truly awful.

10.  The evidence.

And so we come to evidence.   That’s what Untold Arsenal has brought to the show.  The evidence.  Evidence about referees, about injury levels, about media manipulation, about the corruption of the transfer market, about financial doping…

I started by writing about why I set up this site.  It has more than fulfilled my wish, in that this site brings you facts and detailed analysis and focusses on issues that elsewhere are “untold”.

I don’t know why so many people can’t see that there is a difference between Walter’s detailed analysis of referees, and then his comparison in refereeing decisions across clubs, and the simplistic statement “Starting the season with 6 defenders,” without any sort of serious analysis behind it.  But there is a difference.   One involves a lot of detailed consideration of various facts, and the other involves a statement that says, “if you can’t see the world as I see it, you are wrong”.

So in summary I would say, statements like “Starting the season with 6 defenders” is one that requires a huge amount of analysis and reasoning before one can see if it is a valid report of an error.  I would say that the issues we raise about referees, the media, financial issues and so on, are done in terms of analysis and deeper consideration – and they reveal something rather rotten in the state of football – and that something is not Mr Wenger.

That’s about it.  Rather a long piece, but that is my answer.  There are many other issues that could be raised but I think I’ve taken up enough of your time.

If you have been, thank you for reading.

Tony Attwood

297 comments to Why does Untold support Mr Wenger?

  • micro

    I listen to this negativity almost daily and I try to reason with people, it doesnt sink to these fellows. Its good you have mentioned that you run a company and that puts in a very good position to see what Wenger does, because it is not granted wishes on a daily basis. Even in employment, it is never granted wishes daily, but you have the management to blame and that gives you the perspective of the so called AAA. I have read proposed replacements for Wenger all the way from Moyes, Klopp, Mrtinez to Rodgers, I dont know whether these people as they shift the proposals they assume people forgot what they suggested earlier. Could Arsenal be changing coaches every day a certain coach is having a good spell in another team to accommodate him? People talk about defenders, who knew you can lose three midfielders in one game? Or coaching Arsenal also comes with fortune telling abilities? May be thats what the management didnt know, they should have asked Wenger if he has those abilities too. If it is true that these fans have the success rate they want for Arsenal in their lives, there would have been no problems at all in this world.

  • Sammy The Snake

    Good points Tony, thanks.

    I’m a Wenger supporter and don’t think for a second that I can manage a club better than him. So I don’t question decisions made by the club.

    Still, I look at ManU and think “how stupid of them not to buy defenders”… Same could be said of Arsenal. Judging is easy, running a club is not!

  • Mutiu Jimoh

    Thanks for the write-up Mr Tony Attwood and don’t mind the Wenger’s haters. I still beleive the team will come good with new players in important position trying to gel and the injured players return to the team ,winning the League this year is not beyond our reach afterall we are still unbeaten in the league. So let us keep the fate.

  • Good post Mr. Tony! This is a must read for us, fans. I like this blog almost after every matchday. But definitely after a disappointing result, because I need some intelligent views on our game. Rather than breaking hell and losing my mind.

  • walter

    wenger was great and he cant take us any further. WE are greatful for the history but we cant he held at ranson because of that. No amount of stats will hide the perenial failings of Wenger’s teams in recent years…… and this continues to be repeated season after season and its frustrating. on the question of who should manage us—– Teams like Bayern, Barca, Real, Chelsea and City have changed managers and still managed to win trophies. Pep was under pressure last year after being knocked out of the champions league despite winning league with wide margin…. He has now twikked Bayern’s style of play this season. it shows how ambitious other clubs are and teh appetite to win which is non existent at ARsenal. ARsenal can change teh manager and also be successful- there is life after Wenger . At Arsenal there is no ambition and finishing number is seen as an achievement… Its not especially given that we have been a waste of a spot in the champions league and always get knocked out once it gets serious.whats the point —just another stat whcih says we have been in the champions league for so long?? Wenger has taken us as far as he can and its time for change

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Thanks Tony.And thanks for Untold.
    COYG! Aha and Amen!

  • Nick The Gooner

    As an older fan I well remember the Graham years
    I’m somewhat supportive of George as I am now of Wenger – In fact I applaud Mr Graham for the guy who broke the dominance of Liverpool
    Ironically his tough rigid military style led to exactly the reputation meaning great players avoided us. Slowly the Thomas, Rocastle, Davies midfield flare got replaced by the back four (or 8 if you want to go through all the names) pumping long balls to a brilliant Mr wright, and with a little luck we scrapped an FA cup victory in the dying seconds.
    by now we were hardly entertaining or visionary – I believe that some the seed for some long term goals were sowed from this – Ie a goal to recruit Arsene.
    Now I can get frustrated – I did so again on Saturday – I hand it to the spuds that Kaboul and Vertonghen played out of their skins. Whilst Spurs linger in celebrating Defensive negative draws we still hold visions of league and Champions league victory – and as you say Tony our negativity is our worst enemy (Please remember the true wording in our crest.
    One more point – ref number 4. The transfer market is run by agents nowadays – any agent can up the value and their cut merely by saying Arsenal are interested in signing …., alternatively some teams will sign a player just to stop us strengthening our squad, such is the respect for Arsenal – These are the prime reason that most of our successful signings are quick and quiet.
    PS lets hope for a win at Chelski – remember they have a weak defence – even Burnley put one past em (sorry!!)

  • Thanks Tony for this article and all the hard work you do on Untold

  • Lekan gunner

    Oh Tony,
    When u put perspective in writing, I’m always amazed by the way u do it,
    I think I will always consult U whenever I have job applications to write,
    you have that gift .
    I’ve also managed a venture and some decision look wrong to others but only the person running it know what he is trying to achieve .
    See other clubs clamoring for bigger stadium some denied other now expensive to execute. Yet Wenger did that early enough.

  • bjtgooner

    Well put Tony, I am very glad you started the Untold blog.

    The only addition I would make is that part of the AAAA seem to have developed (or are allowing themselves to be used) into a more organized and sinister relationship with certain elements of the media and possibly others in the wider world – that relationship is not good for the Arsenal.

    The squad continues to develop as AW tweaks and fine tunes, hopefully approaching a peak. Not unsurprisingly the sinister parts of the AAAA are becoming even more vociferous – because they realize that with one or two more tweaks AW will have an exceptional team – at which point the AAAA propaganda will be seen by their most ardent sympathizers as nothing more than the crap it is. At that time the possibility of a hostile takeover, into which some of the AAAA have bought, will fade – hence the AAAA are trying to create as much damage as they can while they can.

  • colario

    As many who read here know, I was a fan of Arsene before he arrived at Highbury. When he did so I was ‘over the moon’ (As was the expression back then.)

    Like many I becane an Arsneal fan when just a kid. I had no knowledge or understanding of what it means to run a professional footbal club or what it means to be a professional footballer.

    My daily work routine has never meant that I work at the club, so I have no idea what is happening inside the club. My knowledge is totally dependent on the media.

    However I have learnt that the media cannot be trusted for accuracy of its news. As has been said above it has its own criteria and that is to atract more readers, viewers or listeners as the case may be. This means if the truth is boring and a rumour is exciting then publish the rumour as truth and omit the truth.

    It can sink as low as this. I heard a former editor of a Manchester edition of a Sunday newspaper say. ‘From time to time I would print at the bottom of the front page in big red letters. ‘Manchester United’. That would guarantee to sell between 50 000 to 100 000 extra copies that Sunday even though there was nothing in the paper about MU.’

    So for news about Arsenal I am reliant on what the club says about itsself. However in recent years, the club has come to fall inline with the standard public presntation of itself. The club glosses over the warts and provides us with a glossy image of itself.

    When George Graham arrived I quickly became a fan not only at the way the team played but what he said in public. I was sold on him. However had I known what was going on in the club at the time I might not have been such a fan.

    Back in the Bertie Mee days it was evident that what was happening on the pitch was the work of the coach. Mr Mee was the Director of Football, as was Tom Whittiker and George Allison before him.

    Arsene’s arrivial has brought integrity and openess and a determination to do the best for the club and for the players and to bring exciting football to Arsenal. He has done this in the face of the corruption that is in English football and elsewhere.

    As above I sometimes wonder and are even in despair at something I see on the pitch. I don’t understand because I don’t know all the details, all the reasons for what I see.

    Yes there is an irony in the situation with the new stadium. It was claimed we must move to a bigger stadium in order to be more successful in fact we have been less successful since the move and there is the shadow of Mr Kronke.

    What we must not lose sight of is despite the lean period, the club is much stronger then it was ten years ago. It can compete as a ‘top club’ independent of outside help.

    The anities make three mistakes.

    They fail to see the whole picture both short term and long term.

    They believe what the media tell them. (Which is why they have no evidence for their claims.)

    They criticise the players.

  • Alex

    In the eyes of many the derby result is kind of a loss of two point hence the anger against the manager is getting momentum.

    My opinion about the team and manager is after eight games.Two more games to go and I deserve to state my opinion.So far it doesn’t look good.

  • nicky

    Tony,
    A good riposte but hardly necessary.
    Untold’s stated policy is “supporting the club, the players and the manager”.
    That should be clear enough for all who can read.

  • Danish Gooner

    I like your arguments and the way you always stand up for Wenger that is great loyalty.Unfortunately i think you are dead wrong on all the big issues.Firstly,Wenger even spoke about our injuries during the summer and he would look in to it etc,still we only have 6 available defenders for 4 spots,you need at least 8 capable defenders when you are fighting on all fronts Wenger knows this and fails to do anything about it,massive failure. Dont get me started about available players they are always available if you are willing to pay them and their club also, so that is a false argument from Wenger.Secondly,at the moment i think any halfbaked coach could do better then Wenger his squad is so good attacking wise it is unbelievable we struggle to score goals,it is a staggering mindblowing thing that we are not free scoring like CHavski.Thirdly,Wenger kept saying during the summer that he would keep signing only top draw players and to a large extent he did but instead of finally putting us in a real position to challenge he fails to get a DM and and another centre-back after he publicly admitted that he had to find a replacement for Vermaelen.Then he procrastinates over the signing of the new Vieira, Carvalho of Sporting another massive failure not to secure his signing.

  • Lance

    There’s a difference between supporting the manager and not being aware of the noticeable downward spiral. I appreciate as a fan you need to get behind your team but to say wenger is not at fault for our predicament is a joke. I mean even Man Who with their astonishing lack of defence are only 2 points behind us.

  • Independent gooner

    Mr Atwood,
    Thanks for the reply to the comments I posted yesterday. While I still vehemently disagree with you, I mist commend you for your sincerity and unalloyed passion for the club that we all love.

    -You acknowledge that starting the season with six defenders was a mistake. I’m not even referring to buying new players. Why did Wenger let Miquel and Jenkinson leave when he knew he was going to dither? That was bad management.

    -You didn’t address why is he buying world class players and playing them out of position? When you buy a 250k Bugatti, you don’t go driving it on a dirt road, do you?

    -Wenger has publicly stated that we need a “prodigious athletic defensive midfielder” ( his exact words”. We’ve needed this for again least 5-6 seasons. In that time he’s earned over £50,000,000 in wages. What has stopped him from doing his job. I’m not asking him to fly a supersonic aircraft. He’s been derelict from his responsibilities, that’s my point.

    If our scouting department cannot identify transfer targets or our business guys cannot close deals, why isn’t Wenger asking for wholesale changes.
    Please don’t tell me that there haven’t been defensive MF better that Arteta and Flamini in the market in the last 3 years.

    Wenger doesn’t need fans defending him against all odds. He’s leaving off his past and you’re defending based on the Wenger of 2004. He has the Arsenal PR guys doing that. He’s a big boy, he can hold his own in the media. Let’s stop wrapping him in cotton wool.

    Like I stated, thanks for your sincerity. I guess we just see it differently.

  • Micheal Ram

    U know what guys, the next time ‘such people’ run their mouth again, just tell them to buy the latest edition of Champinship Manager. Install it and play it just one time. No resets or restarts. Continuously for 20 seasons. They can do or spend whenever they want on who or what. Let’s see whether they can match Arsene Wenger’s record at the club. Remember the game does not include the stadium building and its effects as well as the oilers monopoly, while Mr Wenger had successfully overcome such scenarios. Let’s say we even the odds between geniuses and morons. Those fellas match it or do better, then they are allowed to talk trash here.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Danish Gooner,

    About Carvalho (did you ever see him play by the way more than match highlights?)

    third party ownership and player manager-agent Mendez or whatever this bloke is called who does the transfer dealing in Portugal and who is a close friend of Mourinho. A manager that might face sanctions from Fifa as he is being investigated.

    But this friend of Mourinho owns half of Portugal and Spain and so he will not harm his personal friendship too much in selling players to Arsenal when Mourinho don’t want it to happen.

  • Tony,,, regardless of how good wenger is, he still knew we didnt have enough players. We all knew we would have injuries and we have. We all knew that arteta and flamini would cost us points and they have!

    THere is NO EXCUSE for the lack of DM signing, arteta looked WAY off the pace in preseason and the end of last year, wenger had a LONG time to source another player to help with the burden of that role in which we HAVE NO specialists outside the creeking yellow card machine that is flamini..

    BUT THE WORST part is that we DID bid for Carvalho on the last day (according to the agent) So whats that about ?

    wenger thinks we need him clearly, ,but not enough to pay 30 million for him?, so we bid 23!,, ok so we lose the player, the player that we need, that would give us a chance, because without that kind of player arsenal do not have the team to fend off the attacks of great teams. Without a proper DM we WILL FAIL, that was clear last year. So wenger has taken a financial gamble with the team, again.. Over 7 million, wenger has decided, NO, we will do with what we have, kNOWING it is not enough…. WHere is the sense in that tony?

    He has left us short at the back but with bellerin coming through at least that is explainable, injuries have ruined us, BUT that happened every year!!

    I was and still am to a degree one of the biggest wenger fans you will meet,,

    the nights ive spend at the pub defending him,, but post 2012 its become impossible,

    ITs like he choses the opposite of whatever people think he should do, just to be obtuse..

    Its like he sets us up to be so close but fail each season now, in failure he is become as maureen says a bit of an expert

  • WalterBroeckx

    Independent,

    Maybe Jenkinson and Miquel weren’t good enough?

    Playing players out of position. It happens all the time at every club. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. But if he plays him out of position doesn’t that mean that Wenger actually does tactics? Something a lot of you say he doesn’t…

    About the monster : so you are suggesting that Wenger should have bought one from his own salary? So if your computer on your job is getting too slow and you ask your boss: can I get a new one? Will you buy one from your own money? If you don’t mean that then why bring up how much money Wenger has earned? Jealous?

    I might say our club doesn’t need fans that attack them night and day. You moaners are trying to destroy our club night and day and never have a good word about it. It will not change a thing your moaning. And it will not change Untold.

    Long may we stay who we are. Both club and Untold.

  • walter so, we couldnt get Carvahlo then because Maureen didnt want us to have him?

    Well it comes down to how much we offered, and we didnt offer enough, if we met his valuation and still had the bid refused there may be reason to be suspicious but as it is its just an excuse,,

    you cant half need a player in your squad you either do or dont,,, so we needed a DM enough to bid 23 mil but not enough to bid 35?

    where is the prudence in that?? the sense?

    Look at players who wanted arsenal but we haggled over a couple of mil and lost recently, Mata, HAzard, Goetze, just to name a few

    All these players are now worth 3 times what we would have paid even if we had spent the extra couple of mil

  • WalterBroeckx

    Madetolovemagic,

    “according to the agent” that is one of the points Tony made. How do we know? Were you there when Arsenal made an offer? I think we can say that if there is one thing certain in the transfer window that is that newspapers and agents are the biggest liars on earth.

    Certainly when that agent is a friend of Jose….
    I can hear Jose thinking it and saying to his close pal: hey lets get the Arsenal fans moan a bit more and undermine Wenger his position. lets spread some rumours that he has been dithering again and refuses to spend again….

    Now of course Jose the eye poker wouldn’t do such things. He is such a gentle and nice person. Never would do anything wrong to anyone….

  • WalterBroeckx

    Madetolovemagic,

    Are you an agent involved? If not how do you know all these things?

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Thanks for this Tony , I now spend more time here than any where else on the internet ( and that includes porn sites!). Please keep the good fight going .
    For the most part I enjoy myself on here but one or two idiots often irritate me here.
    I retaliate by poking fun at them via cartoons ,jokes etc and generally laugh at their overall stupidity and ignorance .
    I don’t worry about transfers , injuries , team selection and the generally running of the club as I”m not paid to worry about them .I trust that AW and the board know what they are doing .
    Cups ? Seem them , done them !
    I feel sad for young fans who get their heads turned by all the negativity towards the Arsenal . My advice to them is to think for yourselves and fuck the AAAA !
    An AKB forever !

  • George Latim

    You remind me of my philosophy professor. When you mentioned sociology and psychology, I recall Sociology book by a one professor Berger. We have to listen to peoples views. It usually enriches our own perspective on any phenomenon of interest. The problem is, as a student of logic, analyzing logical pitfalls helps me weigh the torrent of words that drum my ears using the currency of reason. Latim (Uganda – Africa)

  • Pete

    From the Accounts, it seems that there is an approximate correlation between £1mm and 1% on ticket prices. So splurging another £12mm to meet an inflated valuation would therefore equate to another 12% on ticket prices? And it is no good going on about the cash balance. A lot of this is ring-fenced as debt security and as a reserve should we dip out of the CL (which we almost did last month) but need to continue paying wages.

    And, as any accountant can tell you, there is a big difference between an asset and revenue. We only made a few million quid profit last year so there really is NOT the money there to finance profligacy.

    The question I ask again: do YOU spend all your money as soon as you earn it – and then borrow some more so you can spend some more? That is absolutely not the way to run your personal finances, a business or indeed a football club. Just look at Leeds, Rangers, Portsmouth and many more.

  • Independent gooner

    Walter Broekx,
    I wasn’t implying Wenger should buy a DM out of his salary, read the post again.
    I was stating that he’s been derelict in his duties, earning mega-pay checks and not recruiting the right calibre of players. Isn’t their money to be spent. Did you read the mist recent financial reports of AFC?

    I’m not a moaner or whatever derogatory tag you assign to me. I’m simply a gooner with an independent viewpoint.
    Notice that I don’t cast aspersions at anybody here. There are many who would call you an AKB, not me though.

  • Mick

    Where is Bill from Manhattan when we need his more blunt and pragmatic approach to put the Madetolovemagic, Independent and Danish’s of this world in their places.

  • Gooner S

    @Tony
    And this is why this has slowly become the last blog I read. Excellent. But then as you say I would say that wouldn’t I?

    Interesting your views on Pires at the time … Pires remains the only player whose name I’ve ever put on the back of a shirt. Funnily enough it was after we lost to Liverpool in the Cup Final. I was getting grief for not being upset enough at losing. My rationale was that we played great and would do well the following season. Pires was great that day and the rest is history. Me? I never got the merits of Ray Parlour. I now conceed I was wrong on that one 🙂

    The criticism about the performance of the team/manager I get to a degree; I just don’t agree with most of it. That said it has been going on for years now, and during a time when it should’ve been clear to all that we were funding the building of a stadium. What has there really been to moan about? Relatively speaking, as an Arsenal supporter the Wenger years have been the best of my duration as a fan since I first started supporting during the Bertie Mee reign. I now think people are so entrenched in their views, including me (Pro Wenger) that it will not change until Wenger retires.Then it will get interesting! I also think the cost of attending and the dissapointment of those that can no longer afford to attend games colours judgement as well. That I find understandable.

  • I dont know ofcourse walter, just like you dont know but surmise that Maureen would be orchestrating this little bit of PR warefare.. I agree it could easily happen and maybe it did, but what we Do KNOW is that the agent said we made a bid, and we Do KNOW that arsenal never said anything to the contrary. If they thought that maureen and his agent friend we trying to undermine us, why not make a statement saying “no, we didnt bid for CArvalho , mr wenger is happy with his defensive midfield” At least that is something with some accoutability, something you can respect. But silence is all we got, speaks volumes. Fact is (in my mind) is that wenger thought he could get him on the last day, and didnt bid enough for a player he thought we needed.

    Walter, what is irksome to most is that all the problems that we are having were called by fans in the summer.. “we need some defensive cover” No defensive cover, now we have a crisis at the back after a month. “we need a dm” No DM, now the aging arteta is out and flamini who keeps getting booked is our only option..

    These lack of numbers are wengers fault, the DM position being the biggest mistake because we have noone in the squad capable of standing in there

  • Pete, there may be no where near the money available that some think, but we do have enough cash not to have left glaring holes in the squad like we have, and im sorry but that DM berth is a GLARING hole,,

    nothing to do with finance,

  • Independent gooner

    Walter Broeckx,
    “Maybe Jenkinson and Miquel weren’t good enough?”
    You ever heard of the saying that “half a loaf of bread is better than none”

    So they weren’t good enough but NOTHING is better?
    Seems you’re deliberately jumping over logic to defend Wenger.

    Let me make myself clear. I’m not even a Wenger basher. I just happened to think he’s best days are behind him. He should have walked off on a high after the FA cup victory. He has brought us through difficult times but he’s lost the fighting spirit and desire to win.

    Who sells a quality FB (Vermalein) and gets rid off another two back-up defenders (Jenkninson and Miquel) without replacements.

    Whatever happened to not selling until you have a replacement already signed up?

  • the irony is that im a huge wenger fan, just like i said , defending him post 2012 has become impossible, and defending wenger is what i did.

    Now his decisions are becoming more and more unexplainable.. Dont get me wrong im happy wenger is our boss,

    its just i hate seeing him hamstring himself and the team over what are essentially quite piffling amounts of dollar

  • I Fear that with all wengers talk of Handbrakes, he may have just gone and turned into one himself

  • ARSENAL 13

    Why buy a Bugatti Veyron when you have a McLaren P1. Faster than a Bugatti on racetrack and more efficient on the road….

    Calm down people. Sky is not coming down on you.

    After reading all of Tony’s explaining as to why why oh why, we still go on to discuss Mr Wengers salary, emirates stadium build, the Dheee Ehm, carval who?……., Wonder what will???

  • Ash79

    ..dear me…what utter..

  • we dont have a bugatti or mclaren , we have arteta who is fast turning into a renault 4,

  • Ash79

    I entirely respect and applaud your unwavering support of le prof but really find that this site does a lot to ‘brainwash’ the fans. Quite rightly you could argue other blogs do the same but in an anti-wenger direction. Have found down the years that whilst you present information to argue your case, it has turned very much into making excuses for AW methods (or lack of). It is no coincidence that you write for arsenal.com either. This site has turned into an extension of the Arsenal propoganda machine. It’s a shame because if you applied the energies that you do into reporting and debating the issues that need addressing instead of covering things up and blaming everyone but the management then as a unified voice we, the fans, could have some impact.

    Shame.

  • Alex

    i just don’t understand.
    how the manager of the club that sits on a forth place behind two Oilsoccerteams (both with endless bench) and a pretty good Southampton, don’t lose a game in PL since april (!?!) can be stupid or the mastermind of AAA himself.
    when and why his decisions are becoming unexplainable !?!??!
    only after 6 games he’s already “useless”
    ManOil win last season after being on the first place just a couple of weeks….

  • Pete

    MTLM – I don’t think Miquel (certainly) and Jenkinson (probably) are good enough. From what little I have seen I would suggest that Bellerin and Hayden are better now – and younger to boot so more upside potential.

    Similar argument re Arteta and Flamini against a DM. It is possible that there was no one available whom Wenger considered better than these. It is possible that he does consider Carvalho better than either – but not worth whatever he was being quoted. Maybe the complications around the agent (and possibly 3rd party ownership – not sure about that) made it too difficult.

    It is clear that Wenger is aware that this is an area for improvement – hence the “make do and mend” work to adapt Diaby. Not convinced there myself to be honest but it is plausible!

    Maybe Wenger hoped to give Chambers some run outs in that position too – but that is hard due to defensive numbers.

    Regarding defensive numbers, yes 6 was too light. But maybe it is 8 with Hayden and Bellerin? Just because they don’t come with a big, shiny price tag it doesn’t mean they are not good enough.

  • Alex

    “brainwash” fans on this site just love the club.

  • Pete, with all due respect, if arsene couldnt find 2 a DM better in the world than Arteta (not even a true DM) and Flamini then there is really something wrong. We could have gone all out for Bender, carvalho, Schneiderlain, Gustavo, even Khedira (though im kinda glad we didnt). Why not even go for Vidal, or Pogba?? All those we could have afforded..

    but what irks me is that why bid for carvalho then? obs wenger thinks we need him , and again it comes to this whole thing of wenger putting his self valuations onto players and ignoring market value.

    So we needed Carvalho but not enough to pay the extra 10 mil? but by not paying the extra money (which our tardiness and lack of prep meant we would have to) we have hamstrung our side to collapse than even my gran could have predicted…

    You either need a player, or you dont

  • Lance

    Hate being negative but last season we beat all the promoted sides hone and away, we also beat the spuds… this season we dropped points at Leicester and now against spuds… the only game that has been an improvement was getting a point v Everton… so gained one point but dropped four!!! It is early days but I suspect the league title will be out of our reach when really it shouldn’t!!!

  • i get wengers logic for not signing a TV replacement, its chambers and because chambers is so good a CB then wenger thought ok bring bellerin through, i respect that.

    But bidding for a DM then pulling out because it doesnt represent value is just odd, whos value arsene, yours or the team?

  • Lance

    @Walter, Which sane manager would leave Sanchez who is one of our best players sitting on the bench in an all important derby? It’s mind boggling when you consider the fact Wenger played him the full 90 mins in a League Cup tie a few days earlier, a competition he has never taken seriously. If nothing else Sanchez’s work rate and enthusiasm would have given the team and the fans a boost. What’s going on Wenger? As for Ozil whether we like it or not Wenger will continue playing him on the flanks just to prove everyone wrong. A last throw of the dice by a desperate man to salvage what’s left of a reputation in tattars. I have absolutely no doubt a capable new manager can mould these current crop of players into a team if not winning the league than at least seriously challenging for the title.

  • Lance to be fair im sure wenger would have brought sanchez on if we didnt get those injuries.. His plan was i expect to bring him on and cause the spuds some shizzle

  • Blaisehayest

    Why didn’t ManU buy some defenders? Clearly they needed some and money is apparently no object to them so why didn’t they get one? Because sometimes things don’t workout. Who knows, maybe Wenger put in 20 bids for 20 defenders and nothing panned out. The point is WE DON’T KNOW what happened. So in the face of no evidence we should trust the man who has given a large portion of his life to the club we all love.

  • Blaise

    we all give a large portion of our lives to the club we love, difference is we do it for free

  • Lance

    If we can’t best very average teams like Spurs at home then we are in trouble. After the defeat by Southampton in midweek, I posted here on the ridiculous decision to play Alexis for 90 minutes. Why- when that cup was fifth in Wenger’s list of priorities for this or any season did he play our best player for the whole game? I hear people say Alexis was rested for Wednesday’s CL game- rubbish, he wouldn’t have needed a rest if he hadn’t played against the Saints! He’s dynamic, never gives up, would have harried their defence and I feel would have opened them up far more than we did. We’re always liable to let in soft goals and much as he’s been championed by me, this was down to Flamini, but I’m sure we would have been ahead before their goal if our Chilean had started the game. As for all the posters on here who’ve been ridiculing Manure- they’re two points behind us. What’s the betting after next week-end’s matches they’ll still be behind us? How will we do against Chelsea- Costa against the Big Lumbering German and Fabregas ( we didn’t need him, of course) running the show- can’t wait.

  • Blaisehayest

    @ Lance
    Have you considered that the team steamrolled Villa without Sanchez and tried to replicate that team? And how is playing Ozil “on the flanks” a throw the dice? Look at heat maps Ozil plays all over and the rest of the team adjusts.

  • Lance

    @MadeToLoveMagic: Watching the match, it looked to me that Arsene Wenger was prioritising beating Galatasaray over the 3 points. Lose to Galatasaray and we are almost out of the CL, or at least we have to win almost every game which is not going to happen. This season we again have a squad of 25 odd players but Wenger will only play around 15 of those. There is no real player rotation and as in previous seasons we don’t have enough quality to properly compete in the league and CL. This sets a normal sequence of events during CL weeks: prior to a CL match Wenger sends out the side to go half pace to conserve energy and hope to scrape a win in the league. Often we fail to quickly tie up this match and even go one down. Arsenal then start to play, get back in the match, suffer an injury or two and the players become tired for the CL match. Here, the same players (barring one or two) will again play and further exhaust themeselves trying to get something positive from it which means we then run on empty on the following league game a few days later. This is foing to be a massive and season defining week for us.

    Oh and by the way the Chelsea game can only go one way looking at the two sides. Also it’s Wenger v Jose and we all know how that ends every time they meet. Wenger never wins.

  • Blaisehayest

    @MTLM
    That’s just stupid. We would do it for money if we could. If Arsenal offered you a job would you take it?

  • Ash79

    Chelsea wont fear us. They wont do anything special to cater for us. Theyw ill simply play their game.

    Arsene will no doubt tell the lads to go and enjoy themselves and play your game.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    How do you fucken know?

  • Lance

    @Blaisehayest, Yes, I did. So why change a winning combination? The answer is Wenger is actually losing it, it sounds rash but there’s substance to suggest otherwise. He may have invested well with Ozil, Sanchez, Welbeck, Chambers one for the future, but the cons outweigh the pros, we can’t hide them under the rug especially when we keep dropping points we shouldn’t. Playing Ozil on the left for the north london derby thus lacking a creative spark and dropping points at home, if Sanchez wasn’t fully fit still should have played first 60 minutes, our captain is a 32 year old player who is good but not great and plays in the weakest area of our team that Wenger NEEDED to invest in (he makes Arteta captain but didn’t offer Pires a 2 year extension?!?), to be captain for a top 4 team you have to be a very good player (Adams, Vieira, Henry), does he think we can compete with Arteta/Flamini & 6 senior defenders?!?!?

    With 1 year to go on Arteta’s contract at the age he is with Vermaelen leaving, it’s as if Wenger’s rewarding his loyalty for sticking at playing in a different position for 2 years, a position he hasn’t exactly got to grips with. Well that’s really lovely but Wenger needs to be ruthless like Mourinho, he sold Essien, bought Matic. Playing your £42 million creative investment out of position not behind our £16 million quicker striker investment is unforgiveable, persisting with Flamini (especially)/Arteta is unforgiveable. Either one of them against in form & IN FORM Chelsea?!? Oh dear.

    This is alarmingly embarrassing actually now and if we lose 3-0 or more to Chelsea, Wenger won’t be able to hide his mess under the rug for much longer, the jury will be out on probably the biggest Arsenal legend of all time who may just be beginning to be past it himself for the PL never mind Arteta and Flamini!

  • Lance

    @Kenneth Widmerpool: What are you swearing at? Everyone knows Wenger will flop against Maureeen. Do you really want me to post the stats on here for you? Oh wait it’s quite simple – on the head to heads Wenger wins = 0 – now that sums it all up.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Anway at least we can turn to you Lance,eh?

  • Ash79

    lol@Lance

    Come now Kenneth. After all these years Wenger has openly said ‘we dont worry about the otehr team, we make no special plans, we focus on our game’….

  • Andrew

    well another 2 pts dropped and another inept performance.my son and I could not believe the pedestrian pace we played the 1st half,also why didn’t sanchez start that’s the 2nd league game running our £32m signing as not started.the 2nd half was better but we never looked like scoring it takes us ages to get in the oppo 18 yd box and we make it easy for spurs or any other team to get players behind the ball.i said recently I haven’t seen us play well this season,at the back and midf we are not secure or creative enough.now we are without arteta(don’t rate him)ramsey and possibly jw,add on theo,giroud,debuchy,diaby,monreal,sanago that’s 9 players unavailable again.the Chelsea game you can write off its just a question of how many we lose by and the gala cl tie the way we are playing could be difficult. one man to blame that’s wenger why doesn’t he resign sorry £8m reasons,however we have a sub std squad with deficiencies throughtout the team particulary in def 2 required and a hold midf.to say diaby can fill that spot is a disgrace the lads never fit.watching yesterday I resented my st money and if im honest the performances so far are worst than last year,make my day aw and resign.

  • Pete

    Lance:

    “A last throw of the dice by a desperate man to salvage what’s left of a reputation in tattars”.

    Just thought I would highlight that statement.

  • Lance

    @Andrew, Why would Wenger resign? A job for life, leeching off £8 million a year to just ‘participate’ in the league. I am surprised he’s still in the job but when we have an unambitious board like ours, where the owner takes money to fund his own private dealings then we can calmly say that top really is the only thing we are and ever will achieve with Wenger at the helm.

  • Fishpie

    So Tony, a central part of your supporter philosophy is that fan negativity is futile because it doesn’t change anything ( indeed you believe it only makes things worse) and fan positivity is what we need more of to help make things better. My instinct too would be that positive encouragement is a powerful motivator and a confidence builder that may well lead to success and attainment. You have studied psychology (I haven’t) and you believe in evidence. I guess there is a lot of qualitative and quantitative research evidence out there to support the efficacy of positive reinforcement. I think we all probably believe a crowd of positive fans in a stadium can act as “the twelfth man” but I’m not sure , on the other hand, we would all agree that protest marches and anti-cause campaigns or change-movements (the kind that want to alter or reverse an imposed direction) are totally futile. Negativity is easy to criticize but perhaps the people in power who close their eyes and ears to it are the ones who perpetuate it. Perhaps another way of thinking about this is: if there were to be a referendum or an election, would we vote for change? Would most fans vote for an Arsenal with a deeper defence and stronger, better holding/mids or would most vote to stay as we are (and have been for a long few seasons now); vulnerable and under-equipped in those off- the-ball positions? I sense most would vote for change; most fans, most pundits, most players, most Arsenal players in the squad, most commentators, most followers of Untold, most Arsenal fans with a positive disposition, most Arsenal fans with a negative disposition would vote for Arsenal to make that change. Most I believe would judge fairly that based on the evidence in Arsene’s own earlier achievements, in the numerical evidence of most league tables since year dot and on countless Match of the Day videos that strong off-the-ball and defensive prowess is a fundamental requirement in becoming a championship winning team. So please try and find a way that is on-brand for Untold to join the voices in asking the club, now it has the money, to up its game, to increase its efforts in finding these essential player ingredients. What evidence does Mr Wenger have to give you Tony that we can win the league without such attributes? Tony, pose that question when you are next with club officials. Use your positivism to help your fellow Arsenal fans to influence the changes that are needed.

  • Lance

    @ Pete, Ahh well done for highlighting the spelling mistake. Now go give yourself a pay rise like Wenger.

  • Ash79

    Andrew – your point about DIaby. It’s embarassing really isnt it.

    A DM is a key position we have needed to fill for a number of years now. He has never taken it seriously. Instead opting to convert Arteta (an advanced AM at Evrton) and now even suggesting that Diaby could do the job. Its an insult, it really is a smack in the face of Arsenal fans once again.

    Fed up of this man’s pet projects. Him trying to prove his point has cost us points and trophies down the years.

    Even if Diaby stayed fiot and scored 50 goals and we won the league many people here would say “see Wenger was right all along” etc etc….dont you realise that in any project any potential reward you may receive doesnt warrant all the investment. It means nothing.

    Remember, Arsene is not insane, the rest of the world is.

  • GodWoreTen

    Wonderful post Thank you Clearly some of your guests have not really grasped your points at all!

  • Lance

    “It is a concern that Ramsey did his hamstring,” added Wenger. “I don’t understand because he had a good rest this week and I didn’t play him against Southampton on Tuesday. “It’s a surprise because he’s usually a resistant boy.” Jack Wilshere, who took a knock to his ankle against Spurs and was substituted after 63 minutes, is doubtful for the visit of Galatasaray. Wenger said he was concerned by the number of injuries Arsenal have – with striker Olivier Giroud (broken tibia) and Mathieu Debuchy (ankle) out for a lengthy spell and Theo Walcott still a few weeks away from returning to training after sustaining a cruciate knee ligament injury in January. He added: “Suddenly we are short because we lost three players [against Tottenham], and let’s not forgot that we already have two out long-term plus Theo Walcott, that’s six. “Abou Diaby is not ready, so it starts to become a worry.” Its beyond a joke folks. We are struggling to field a decent midfield for Wednesday adn Theo is now a “few weeks away” after Wenger stated in July that he would be back in September and then only three weeks ago that it would be the start of October…..does anybody at our club know whats going on????

  • Ash79

    Fishpie – im sending you a cyber hi-five. Nice post.

  • slugboy

    I read your blogs and I read the AAA blogs. Neither gets the balance right in my opinion. Extremes are never healthy (but they do attract readership;-)). Its always positive to unfailingly support your team, but its also healthy to challenge the ordinary. The debate for support of Wenger brings out extremes in everybody, whereas I would try to be balanced in my views.

    Wenger is a great manager with some blind spots. He gets ordinary players playing well. He knows the passing game. He is a fantastic manager of the purse. He is not so good at analysing weaknesses in the team, tactical set up and selecting a balanced team.

    Over the years we have lost a lot of resilience in favour of flair. I think Calum Chambers is a brilliant piece of work in the transfer market. Debuchy was good too. But these were only decent defenders since Koscielny. We have not had a decent left midfielder since Pires left the club. We have never replaced Henry or even come close. We persistently play tippy tappy ineffectual football, which sometimes look fantastic but often leaves us all frustrated. We have been hopeless at defending set pieces since Seaman left the club. We have lacked height and toughness in most of our squads. Our zonal marking at corners clearly does not work.

    Overall wenger is a massive positive to Arsenal, but I wish he would see what most fans see and go about rectifying the situation in a ruthless way (Mourinho).

  • bob mac

    An exceptional post, and also a brilliant site for true Arsenal fans.

    Those who fail to see the excellence in every area of management, in Arsene Wenger are truly brainless, moronic fools. Forget about replacements……..what the hell do they know about the qualities of players/managers who they have not even met.

    If you wish to know what is going on at the club then use some applied intelligence and all will be clear.

    On the pitch it is even easier……..watch the bloody game. You will see the tactics, game plan, point of subs etc etc. It is not that difficult to have a good idea on how the manager is trying to shape the way the team will play both now and in the future.Just watch the bloody game, and I do not mean listen to or read the media claptrap.

    The so called supporters who are hyper critical of club, manager or players really are a lost cause.I must be fair, it is quite fun to take the urine out of other clubs, but never your own……how daft is that.

    There are different emotions watching Arsenal; disappointment when they lose, frustration when they perform below their best, but mostly vibrant elation at the quality of technical and tactical ability shown by the team. All this is the work and responsibility of one man, our very own Arsene Wenger.

    How some of these prats can find it within themselves to be critical without a well thought out and structured analysis, I for one will never know.

    Again, excellent article Tony.

  • Ash79

    bob mac – your post is so ludicrous i have to ask if you are being saracastic?

  • Jamie

    Walter, I really respect the honesty in your post, and I agree with most of what you have to say.

    In my opinion, Wenger is the best man to have managed the club(save, maybe, for Chapman). Getting us through the stadium enforced austerity period was nothing short of genius. Few things I disagree with though:

    1. Our injury record: In all honesty, Mr. Wenger may or may not be to blame for our injury problems… Nobody knows, but since this has been a recurring theme for a few years now, shouldn’t we be better prepared for the possibility of it happening again this year? Against spurs, 3 midfielders got injured, but we were well covered in the midfield positions(kudos to Arsene), If the same problems occurred in defensive positions, what could we possibly have done, seeing as we have no defensive cover. Surely we could have signed at least one defender considering our injury record. I don’t wish evil on any of our boys, but what if Kos got injured? Would we have to play Per, Chambers and bellerin 3 games a week? On a side note, Mangala still signed for Man City, even though they destroyed the career of promising LB Wayne bridge. If players were so concerned about playing regularly, most players wouldn’t be signing for Man city or Madrid (Winners of EPL and UCL last season). If anything, this show that you need to have all your bases covered if you want to challenge for 4 titles every yr. The carling cup might not be too big a trophy, but I’d take that over a trophyless season.

    2. The DM position: I’m not going to mention names, but I’ll just say, we knew we needed a DM since last season, and we didn’t get one all summer. Bayern lost Martinez to an injury and immediately signed a replacement. That’s good management. Our substandard DMs have cost us points this season, and it’s inexcusable to not have a top quality DM.

    3. Mr. Wenger is better than us all: Simple analogy: Very few people know anything about running a country, yet most people complain about government policies that they feel are wrong. Are all these people negative? is the president or prime minister the smartest man in the country? is he the best man for the job, or are there better candidates?
    If you don’t think like this, then you’re going to be stuck in neutral forever. Surely we won’t be delegation fodder, but wouldn’t you want more than qualifying for the UCL, with no chance of winning.

    I’ll finish with a quote i read somewhere recently:
    “Arsenal without Wenger could win the league or finish 7th. You can’t expect either with him in charge”

  • bob mac

    @ slugboy

    If you watch both Bayern Munich and Barcelona you will notice that they play with an almost identical style, and use the same tactics (and I include zonal marking) as Arsenal.

    Wake up to how the modern game is developing.

    ps…How is zonal marking acceptable in free play and not at set plays, ALL teams defend zonally in free play !!!!!!

  • bob mac

    @ Ash 79

    Don’t be ridiculous.

    bye for now.

  • Andrew

    The spuds game showed that Carzolas time is numbered, Ozil wil not play in his natural position as long Ramsey and Jack are around and another Gilberto will not be utilized. The spud game was there for the taking and the without bodies attacking the goal victory will be hard to find and games hard to finish off. The players are not getting in the box whilst other teams have up to 6 in the box. The goal is in the centre and no arsenal player wants to be there? Wenger plays along the flanks yet the goal is in the centre no wonder he likes to talk about others and not his flank-comings ethos, the curse continues to dog the fans and the club yet again

  • Blaisehayest

    @ Fishpie
    Your voting for change idea is very simple and unrealistic. I would like a magic wand to make Arsenal perfect but it’s not happening. Positive encouragement is a very powerful thing especially in sports where so much is based on confidence. I’ll ask you a question. Would you like to go to work and have insults hurled at you and hear boo’s when you make mistakes?

  • WalterBroeckx

    So once again the whole world is gloom and doom…. Is your life really so miserable?

    I wonder was it all a dream that we won the FA cup and the Community shield what was it…only some 4 months and 1 month ago? Nah, probably just an old boys wet dream I think…. or was it?

  • Lance

    I am more concerned by the manner of Tottenham’s goal. We ceded possession is a stupid position on the pitch and never recovered. We were also unpicked a couple of times on the counter, something to which Arsenal are becoming increasingly susceptible at home. City exploited the weakness and unfortunately one of th goals was down to Flamini on that occasion as well. It’s a team problem that is in danger of becoming centred on one player. Often though one player’s mistake is the root cause. That’s the sort of area I would be more concerned with, where extra training was required.

    George Graham was relentless in his pursuit of defensive perfection and got his back four drilled though repetitious training methods. It might be boring for the players but was hugely effective.

  • Pete

    A couple of points.

    1. According to one fan survey I saw in the close season (might have been the Gooner but could be wrong), something like 75-80% of respondents were happy or very happy with the club’s management (in the broad sense of the word).

    2. (Connected) if Tony had posted this piece after a couple of good results I am certain we would have far fewer hostile comments.

    The two points are connected because so much of the opinion is based on the last match. Which is ridiculous. One has to look at the long term trends. Think of the incredible about terms in the pundit/fan responses to Man Utd:

    Post Successful Pre-Season/Pre-Swansea: Van Gaal is the man to take them to the top.

    Post-Swansea: Utter confusion.

    Post-MK Dons: MU in crisis.

    Post QPR: MU will win the League (I did see some state this).

    Post Leicester: MU will finish in the bottom half.

    Post MU: Uncertain.

    The fact is that MU are trying to integrate a number of new players, a new system (although 3-5-2 seems to have fallen by the wayside for now), a new manager and in a post-World Cup year. Their results will be very inconsistent – but I think they will improve. And their lack of balance in defence/DM is a lot worse than ours’.

    At Arsenal, we are in a similar place – but are building on a stable base. Nevertheless we are trying to integrate 5 new players, plus a couple more from the youth set up. Therefore, while the start has not been as good as we would have liked, it has not been that bad either.

  • WalterBroeckx

    mistakes do happen you know. Our goal was also the result of a mistake from one of their players. Players are human beings not internet robots like in FifaXXwhatever

  • Pete

    Lance – I wasn’t trying to highlight your spelling mistake, rather the “reputation in tatters” comment. That is quite an incredible assertion to make. Do you really think we would have signed Ozil, Sanchez and indeed many others if that was the case?

    I think you are in a small minority on that one.

  • Pete

    Sorry – to correct my MU post. The last point was “Post West Ham”.

  • Sally Pally

    I suppose you have to put things in perspective as far as some of these comments are concerned. It really narks us that we drew to Spurs having so thoroughly outplayed them and hence the aura of negativity with a few persistent posters. It was as much bad luck as anything that lost us this game, with the loss of Ramsey and Arteta in particular.

    Even the most loyal Wenger supporters would have probably liked a more ‘athletic’ DM but then so did Wenger. Carvalho we don’t know enough about but maybe we’ll find out a bit more tomorrow if he plays against chavski.

    It irks us all that we have so many injuries but that seems to be happening to a lot of teams very early this season. Wenger has tried several different approaches to lessen the number of injuries but so far no luck. One thing he can’t do much about is this fouling that teams get stuck in with early in the game before the ref gets wise. If it is rotational then that is just a moronic tactic for imbeciles and just destructive and of no benefit to football.
    Against City, Debuchy was tackled well over the top by Milner. He looked very much to me like he’d been given instructions. Either that or he just couldn’t live with Debuchy, which is no surprise as Debuchy is a real handful a big step up from Sagna as far as I can see.

    Let’s get things into perspective – we have been incredibly unlucky so far this season but still remain unbeaten. No manager could have expected this many injuries this early on and so to criticise Wenger for that is just ludicrous.

    Let’s hope that we get through the Galatasary game with a win and no more injuries. Then, if that is the case, let us see if Mourinho has the guts not to park the bus against us on Sunday. Things change quickly in football. Arsenal is on an upward curve at the moment despite the injuries. A but more patience would be good as we have punched way above our weight for the barren years and have come very close to both winning the Champions League and the title on several occasions with about one tenth the money that City, Chelsea, Liverpool or United have spent.

    There is so much to be happy about with Arsenal but a draw against Spurs does put a dampener on things.

  • Fishpie

    @Blaisehayest

    The point of the referendum vote idea wasn’t to suggest that that’s all it would take to magic Arsenal to perfection. It probably wasn’t a good way to make my point at all really. But I was just encouraging Tony, who has a very fine fan philosophy of positivism, to recognize that his positivism could be used to help support the desire for change evidence suggests is essential and that probably most fans would wish for. Change that the club, season after season, doesn’t appear to pursue with any great conviction. This site, with Tony’s reasonable, fair and deep analysis can make a positive contribution. Tony has I suspect credibility that some bloggers don’t.

    I thrived in my career when I had positive feedback and encouraging bosses and faulted when I didn’t, BUT I received criticism and accepted it too. And improved as a result. Criticism can be a force for good.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Lol Godworeten, I had the same idea…

  • Samuel Akinsola Adebosin

    Good afternoon Sir, Mr Tony. Please try your possible best to see that Arsenal repair that faulty Public Address System at the Emirates stadium soon. This obsolete state of PAS doesn’t befit the stature of AFC. Are Hector Bellerin, Semi Ajayi and Isaac Hayden the youth defenders you are inferring? I agree with you. Infact, come January window, Arsenal may not be needing any defensive cover anymore as we might be having Debuchy, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gibbs, Monreal, Chambers, Bellerin, Ajayi and Hayden. That’s a total of 9 top class defenders that could be available for selection. So, it is just a matter of being patient. And lastly, let the boss continue to accommodate the voice of desent. In a democratic Arsenal, the opposing views should be part and parcel of AFC. Without the voice of desent, the management could rest on their oars and slumber. But in all honest, I totally opposed any usage of abusive language on the boss. I believe most of those insulting guys are youngsters that are lacking discipline in manners.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    Here is a paper recently published (April 2014) about the effect of home stadium advantage notably focusing on POSITIVE support for the team.

    http://ideas.repec.org/p/iza/izadps/dp8105.html

  • Andrew

    I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. We will put together a decent run, and all the überpositives will crow about how we were wrong to judge the manager, but don’t kid yourself that we will see any improvement on last season. It’s fourth place all the way.Ozil, Cazorla, Sanchez, Ramsey, Wilshere – we have a team bursting at the seams with quality. The fact we can’t mount a credible title challenge is down to the manager.Still, enjoy what you can for the time being and remember, it’s only two more seasons until this team can start to fulfil it’s potential.

  • Ash79

    WalterBroeckx
    September 29, 2014 at 2:35 pm
    So once again the whole world is gloom and doom…. Is your life really so miserable?

    I wonder was it all a dream that we won the FA cup and the Community shield what was it…only some 4 months and 1 month ago? Nah, probably just an old boys wet dream I think…. or was it?
    ——–

    This is THE classic response when any one as so much goes against the grain here. Instead of being defensive why not try and understand what we are saying or are you that blinded by your loyalty?

    Anyone as so much disagress with anything they are deemed either a) a youngster and/or b) uneducated – absolutely ridiculous.

    It’s Arsenal FC not Arsene FC – please do reemmber that. The club was here before you and I and yes even Arsene was born and it will be around a lot longer after we have all left this place. Let’s try and drop the defensive shields and work together to build a better club and make us a force to be feared again.

  • As i said before I am a huge wenger admirer, but it is getting hard to defend him post 2012.

    Can Tony or walter answer me a simple question,

    1) WHy did we bid for a DM only to refuse due to price on the last day? (arsenal didnt deny the link so lets assume it did happen)

    What Price does wenger put on the success of the team? Obviously it is the same price as he refused to pay for Carvalho..

    Say we offered 25 mil and they wanted 35 that means that for the sake of ten mil ( 2/3 of what we got for TV) wenger has risked the entire season of the team, because If he didnt think we needed a DM , why did he bid?

    His actual thought process would have been (from what it looks like) ” Ok we need a DM, bid 25 mil for Carvalho, What!?, they want 35!? thats way to much, no thanks we can do with what we have”

    Logic dictates that that was wengers thought pattern on deadline day..

    He wants a player , but doesnt “want” him enough to pay the extra (for by the way a young incredibly talented player who could serve us for 10 or more years, who didnt want huge wages)….

    it basically means that wenger chose keeping the money in the bank over the success of the team

    when u look at it in the cold light of day, he made that choice

    ?

  • Lance

    We haven’t won a single game this season with 4-1-4-1 and Ozil out wide… Yet our genius of a manager thinks it’s better than the 4-2-3-1 that saw us demolish Aston Villa. It’s understandable when you blame your shortcomings on a lack of finances, but when you buy players that strengthen one position and then fail to strengthen the other, and then proceed to play the formation that exposes your weakest link, all the while playing your most expensive player out of position… Wenger is either losing his mind or this is just all a big Silent Stan joke, cuz there’s no way anybody can honestly be that stupid.

  • WalterBroeckx

    GoinggoingGooner, positive support???
    How dare you even suggest such a thing… 😉

  • Ash79

    With the greatest of respect to Arsene and we must remember mental illness is no laughing matter, perhaps Arsene is not well or atleast where his mental sharpness once was. Like people find driving difficult as they get older. Its perfectly normal but someone at the club has to either make AW resign gracefully or get him soem help and ensure that AW lets those people help him.

  • WalterBroeckx

    ash79,
    the truth is…we are not really interested in what you say. Sorry.
    We love being happy. and deluded. and happy and deluded.

  • Blaisehayest

    @MTLM
    That’s a lot of supposition there. One of the main points of the article was FACT. My supposition is that we will never sign Carvalho. His agent and third party ownership rule him out. I’ll ask again, why did ManU not buy a CB? They threw money around like it was going out of style. Sometimes what you want doesn’t work out. Wenger may have had bids in for a number of DM but we didn’t get one. Move on.

  • Ash79

    WalterBroeckx
    September 29, 2014 at 3:22 pm
    GoinggoingGooner, positive support???
    How dare you even suggest such a thing…
    ———-
    …defensive sarcasm has turned up now

    now we ‘ll have a party..

  • Blaisehayest

    @Lance
    Watch the game again. We played the same way against Villa. It just worked better. Ozil was all over the place against Tott.

  • WalterBroeckx

    And nobody is still happy about us winning the FA cup? Nobody still happy about us winning the CS?

    Well I am. But no, let us all ignore it and throw it all away and run around holding our heads shouting the end is near and feel miserable and throw ourselves from cliffs. LOL some really don’t get the message….

  • Ash79

    WalterBroeckx
    September 29, 2014 at 3:24 pm
    ash79,
    the truth is…we are not really interested in what you say. Sorry.
    We love being happy. and deluded. and happy and deluded.
    ———–

    ha and there we go ladies and gents. You simply can not debate with anyone who has a counter argument. You are so closed minded that you would rather put your principles ahead of what is good for the club. reminds me of someone. Happy to trot out a massive essay expecting people to swallow it, nod their head and follow you off a cliff but you wont even entertain for a second that you might not be entirely right.

    ignorance is bliss as they say.

  • WalterBroeckx

    No no Blaisehayest,

    Özil was played out of position a few times by a manager who doesn’t do tactics by the way and so from now on he is always played out of position because…well they show it that way on TV before the match. But the way a team is put up on that board is nothing but guesswork from the pundits. We don’t know what is said before the match.

    And it might be that Wenger tells Özil start the first 5 minutes on the left flank and then switch positions with Jack, Aaron, whoever to make it difficult for the opposition to know how we play.

    But we don’t know this as only the players are there when they speak about such things. Certainly not Ash, Andrew, or whoever is posting on here and pretend to know. You don’t so it’s all supposing and not facts. One of the main points in this article. And one you still don’t get.

  • WalterBroeckx

    The ‘you’ was not at you Blaishayest 😉 But I think you will have understood that

  • Blaisehayest

    @Ash79
    September 29, 2014 at 3:23 pm
    “With the greatest of respect to Arsene and we must remember mental illness is no laughing matter, perhaps Arsene is not well or atleast where his mental sharpness once was. Like people find driving difficult as they get older. Its perfectly normal but someone at the club has to either make AW resign gracefully or get him soem help and ensure that AW lets those people help him.”

    You call that debate. Sure.

  • Andrew

    @MTLM: How dare you question Wenger? Don’t you know he’s the messiah and can’t do no wrong. Despite being absolutely trounced by the top 4 rivals last season he can’t be questioned.

    @Walter, Yes, it was great we won the FA cup and the CS but when the going gets tough (this season) you seem to be fixated on the world cup like we won the world cup, playing all our matches at home by the way (not complaining) but you have no answers to any of the questions posted by the many people who have raised some excellent points. I am confident you don’t have an answer.

     

     

  • WalterBroeckx

    Of course we cannot debate with you Ash. You are far more superior on such matters than me. And with your proven track record I am sure you would be a better manager than Wenger. I expect that you will be next in line to replace Wenger, buy all the players needed and never let Arsenal lose another match for as long as you live….

  • Justheman

    A fell compelled to make a few points
    1) we spend loads of money on Oizil, Sanchez and to a lesser extent Santi and yet none of the three are ever accommodated in their correct positions. That is crazy.

    2) time and time again we got to clubs where we know they are good attacking teams that close quickly…( Dortmund, Chelsea, Liverpool etc) and we set up poorly…lb and rb playing to high and being exposed. Wrong personnel on the wings e.g ozil …no defensive discipline.

    3) lastly what upsets me more is that the near 100 mil we have spent on ozil , welbeck and Sanchez . Think about we could have taken that money bought a defender , a solid cdm and a top striker and our team would be much more balanced. …..we did not need more attacking mid field players….never did but if u buy them why are u not using them properly…..ludacris

    If u are a manager then the buck stops at you….if u don’t like that then go be an employee

  • WalterBroeckx

    Andrew how can you answer on suppositions? with more suppositions? and then some more.
    Anyway, I got to leave now and leave you with feeling far superior to us deluded, feel good Arsenal SUPPORTERS. We will do the supporting, you stick to what you can do best…

    Anyway, when we won the FA cup after beating 3 teams from the top 6 on the way to the final, I felt that because of my SUPPORT I had contributed to the win. I bet you felt a bit disappointed because after all the moaning he did win us a cup. Two even. How dare he.

  • Blaisehayest

    @WalterBroeckx

    No worries. I imagine Walter that you have seen quite a bit of football from a very close perspective. I see my fare share coaching youth and will be getting my referee license in a few months here in the states. Why people can’t (or won’t?) see what happens on the field astonishes me sometimes but even more than that why they feel the need to be downright rude. There is just no need for it.

  • Ash79

    WalterBroeckx
    September 29, 2014 at 3:36 pm
    Of course we cannot debate with you Ash. You are far more superior on such matters than me. And with your proven track record I am sure you would be a better manager than Wenger. I expect that you will be next in line to replace Wenger, buy all the players needed and never let Arsenal lose another match for as long as you live….
    ..

    dear me. have some dignity Walter.

  • tyrel

    Disappointed to win the fa cup? You must be joking. I was elated that we could finally shut the moaners up. I honestly felt if Wenger hadn’t won the fa cup he would have walked.

  • Tasos

    Arsenal have actually been on an upward curve since 2010. Arsene Wenger has brilliantly managed the club through the difficult stadium move and the club can now compete from a more level financial basis against the oil clubs.

    But it was always going to take time to rebuild the team. I think it’s unreasonable to expect the club to fully challenge both Chelsea and Man City in the Premier League just yet. After all it took both those clubs a good few years, and with the benefit of unlimited financial funds to acquire a title winning team/squad.

    We know we have the money but lets not spunk it away like others have done recently. And if that means waiting for the right player, then I believe that’s the correct/responsible thing to do.

    2013-14 Arsenal 79pts @2.08 PPG (Points per game)
    2012-13 Arsenal 73pts @1.83 PPG
    2011-12 Arsenal 70pts @1.78 PPG
    2010-11 Arsenal 68pts @1.79 PPG

  • Ash79

    Blaisehayest

    no one is being rude apart form bob mac

    dont revert to the stock answer – he is rude/young/uneducated or get defensive like Walter.

  • Tasos

    2012-13 1.92 PPG
    2011-12 1.84 PPG

  • Blaisehayest

    @Ash79
    September 29, 2014 at 3:23 pm
    “With the greatest of respect to Arsene and we must remember mental illness is no laughing matter, perhaps Arsene is not well or atleast where his mental sharpness once was. Like people find driving difficult as they get older. Its perfectly normal but someone at the club has to either make AW resign gracefully or get him soem help and ensure that AW lets those people help him.”

    That is pretty rude thing to say if you ask me. You manage to insult Wenger, the mentally ill, and the old. Not rude?

  • Blaisehayest

    @Tasos

    Very nice.

  • para

    I actually have started to realise that there is hardly anyone who can replace AW at Arsenal.

  • Ash79

    Blaise – no i was being serious. I know people who suffer from this..Its not a trivial matter and not one for joking about.

  • Blaisehayest

    I agree. He is one of the greatest coaches of all time. One of his biggest achievments in my eyes will be when he steps down. Whoever takes over after him will have a team stocked with players, in excellent shape financialy, with a strong acadamy, and one of the best stadiums in Europe. How many teams after a good run with a good coach fall apart because in the end they only cared about individual glory?

  • Pete

    Tasos – I was about to post something similar.

    We have been on an upward trajectory over the last few seasons. That is the evidence. Unarguable I am afraid. And we got the “no trophy” monkey off our backs as well.

    Meanwhile revenue rises, net player expenditure rises.

    Of course we have intense competition from the Oilers and a desperate MU – but the club is heading in the right direction. These are the facts. A very short-term blip at the start of this season (although I would dispute even that) – but for well-understood reasons – is insignificant in the longer term.

    Look at the big picture guys. The future is bright, the future is red and white.

  • Tasos

    @Pete

    It’s almost as if the closer the club/manager gets to competing, the more negative some people become.

    Do they fear Arsenal losing, or do they actually fear Arsenal winning?

  • Blaise

    Ok, well i take the fact that we bid for Carvahlo as fact because we didnt deny it, which we would have done if not true because it makes wenger look like hes penny pinching again.. Regardless of who his agent is he said we bid and it was too low, wheres the response from AFC? Id say that makes it likely a fact.. but who knows?

    “There are no defensive midfield players at the moment,” explained Wenger.
    “We try to find the defensive balance collectively. We have fewer players who are purely defenders but some are physically strong in defending like Diaby, some are tactically strong like Arteta.”

    Ok OK so wenger admits we have no DMs yet in order to justify that he uses Diaby (sorry but really?) whatever talent he has, is it MASSIVE negligence to rely on him as he is coming back from his 38th injury spell since 2006 and last time he was out for a year after yes, trying to kick a ball…

    And ARTETA?? what good is being tactically astute when u dont have the legs anymore? he is injury prone and slow, sorry Mikel you have done a great stint for us but you cannot (and i expect in private you would admit) be our DM against big teams….

    So Diaby and Arteta are wengers reasons for not buying a DM? He says that we take collective responsibility, but we dont, we get ravaged on the break over and over, we bomb forward regardless of who we are playing against……

  • Jamie

    Re: the we don’t really know what’s going on debate.

    Can we also assume that Wenger didn’t buy Welbeck, because we weren’t there? Or that he didn’t sign Henry, cuz we didn’t witness the negotiations?

    And by the way, didn’t Ozil say the other day that he is not a wide player, and that he would prefer to play through the middle??

  • Ash79

    Tasos
    September 29, 2014 at 4:12 pm
    @Pete

    It’s almost as if the closer the club/manager gets to competing, the more negative some people become.

    Do they fear Arsenal losing, or do they actually fear Arsenal winning?
    ———–

    the most ridiculous thing ive read today. It’s because we are THAT close that we find it unfathomable why AW would not take the necessary steps to finally truly compete.

    Do we fear winning? – what a foolish nonsensical ‘let me sound funny/clever’ thing to say

  • WalterBroeckx
    September 29, 2014 at 3:26 pm
    And nobody is still happy about us winning the FA cup? Nobody still happy about us winning the CS?

    Well I am. But no, let us all ignore it and throw it all away and run around holding our heads shouting the end is near and feel miserable and throw ourselves from cliffs. LOL some really don’t get the message……………………………………………………………………………………

    No No walter, again you are retreating into defensive argument, accusing people of not being happy with winning a cup? Please, we were all over the moon, and yes we dominated city in the CS but that has been our only good game of the season so far…….. and its about depth of squad not quality , thats the issue. We dont have the depth to compete on 3 let alone 4 fronts, that was the case last season too.

    Fact is that we are going into this season with LESS defenders than we did last season, our defensive lack of depth was the reason again we collapsed after being top so long, so to go into the next season worse off defensively isnt what teams who have just won things do, they build, they get stronger…

    So what are the reasons wenger doesnt seem to want to build the team ? why does he do everything on the least possible staff? depth keeps costing us yet he goes into a season of hope hamstrung again

  • Blaise, the reason united didnt sign any defenders is down to the manager ,,,,, and he’ll be held accountable im sure if it screws them, unlike wenger

  • Ash79

    MTLM – you’re either with them or against them

  • Tasos

    @Ash79

    Agree. That the club are close. But the final piece/pieces to the jigsaw are maybe not available just yet.

    I refuse to believe the manager/club are unable to identify the players we need. Like I say, we know we have the money, if we have to wait to sign the correct player/s, then lets be patient.

  • Ash79

    Tasos – I refuse to believe that also – so
    what is going on?
    Who are we waiting for to be available?
    Have we been waiting for years for this chap?
    why are we always going for players who are apparently not available?

    its all a ruse my friend.

  • Blaisehayest

    More supposition. Maybe vanGaal tried his damnedest to get someone in but their targets couldn’t be had. That’s the point. Wenger did what he did and the board and whoever else matters at the club are ok with what happened and that is enough for me. Don’t forget this is only our second summer window with money. Buying right takes time.

  • Tasos

    @Ash79

    Well Chelsea waited for Diego Costa. They wanted him last season but A Madrid refused to sell. Arsenal are not alone in this, it happens to all clubs.

  • Sally Pally

    Ash,

    You’ve made your point but you could try and digest the indisputable fact that we have been getting more points every year and are on an upward roll, as conformed by Tasos. You have made your pints now and have resorted to a few underhand remarks. Everyone knows these often repeated opinions and of course, some of us have questioned the tactics and team building. On the whole though, when you compare our team with any other, it is far superior to any other per pound spent. We have more money and will compete and will continue our upward trend whilst those committing the financial doping will have to reign in the purse strings.

    It will be us supporters and Wenger who will have the last laugh when we finally get to compete on a level playing field, which (someone will know better than me) but is probably going to be in the next 2 to 3 years. Can you try to see things that way? If you try, and bearing in mind that we are now improving year on year, can you see that there is an alternative view to the depressing same old same old negativity? Most of the media invariably support the teams that spend the most money because that is how superficial they are and how irrelevant they are to serious debate. They don’t care where the money comes from. We should be proud of our club and Wenger for getting us to where we are and having the best looking balance sheet on the continent.

    I could go on for hours about the positives, which are increasing all the time as anyone and everyone can plainly see. Some people just refuse to see the light when it is shining on them. Again I agree with Tasos, some people have worked themselves up into such a negative mindset that they do seem to fear us winning. A little more patience and biting our tongues when we’re pissed off with a bad result would do us all good, I expect! Kudos to Tony and Walter and all the rest who think carefully, analyse the facts and reflect a bit before writing excellent posts.

  • Sally

    I am one of wengers biggest fans, everything about him ive praised…… but he puts the handbrake on our team every year now by ENSURING that we dont have the squad depth to go a whole season,

  • Ash79

    Sally – Completely understand your post but once again littered with ‘Untoldnessitis’. I could intelligently break down everything you’ve said but I will go with the prefferred form of debate here –

    “Of course I cannot debate with you Sally Pall. You are far more superior on such matters than me”

  • Fishpie

    To those in this chat that argue we have been progressing season on season in points , income, player investment,a trophy even. I do accept that. It is true. So there is progress and it’s great. Only time will tell if we can continue to progress and to what extent. But really now, with a trophy in the cabinet once again, with the stadium in place, with FFP beginning to play a part and with new sponsorship deals in place, progress should be accelerating. So let’s see if we can get through the season without being completely overrun away from home against the bigger clubs? Lets see if we can hit the heady heights of achieving the average number of points per game that will see us finish at the top of the league? There doesn’t feel like much progress going on so far this season but it is still early on in the season.

  • Jamie

    I make a point on good management. Let’s ignore the 4-1-4-1 joke for now. If you need a DM as Wenger has said we do, and you are interested in a certain player A, and the club/agent refuse to do business with you, you seek other alternatives. I’m sure there at least 100 better DMs than Flamteta. If one is available, sign him, otherwise, offer the club enough money to make the player you want available. Take Chelsea for example(and I hate those scum BTW), they needed a striker and they lined up a move for Costa, and Remy as a fall back option. They got Costa and signed Remy anyways. However you choose to rate him, Remy is a decent player, and he does the job Mourinho wants his strikers to do: simply score. They may or may not win the league this season, and I hope they don’t, but if they don’t, can you blame that on the manager leaving holes in the squad. Heck, their third choice DMF is Mikel Obi, a player I would rather have than our DMFs. Take an example from the American Basketball team, the Cicago Bulls. After being snubbed by their top target Carmelo Anthony, they signed 2 players who could play the position, in addition to their highly regarded Draftee. That IS good management

  • Lance

    Defeat against Chelsea next weekend – a case of not if but how many we lose by – will mean another title challenge up in smoke for another season and we’ve barely got out of September. During the close season, the whole of the football world knew we needed a world class defensive midfielder. It didn’t happen and we didn’t replace either Vermaelen or Miquel (Chambers is a full back, not a centre back). Consequently, we have been sussed out by opposition teams with ease. Catch Arsenal on the break and with their snail-like defence, you’re as good as on the score-sheet. Everyone saw it coming, except for the stubborn old fool in charge. Wenger out.

  • Sally

    Its nothing to do with having a level playing field that we didnt sign a DM, nothing

    We chose not to, we could have spent 35 mil on carvalho ( 10 more than we bid )and been FFP compliant,

    leaving LARGE holes in squads when u have the time and money to do not have those is craziness and nothig to do with City of chavs

    the irony of wenger is he could still be Mr Financial prudence and spent a little more money

  • Sally Pally

    Magic – I see a huge squad depth which has improved all over the park. We have a far greater quality squad in depth than I can ever remember. That’s why we can still have an intimidating and match-winning side out on Wednesday even with 9 injuries after only 6 PL games. Who could possibly plan for 9 injuries in September? It’s a nasty piece of extremely bad luck but Wenger can’t be blamed. It is touch and go but then it definitely would be for City and Chelsea as well. Imagine them without 4 or 5 first team players. They certainly wouldn’t be any stronger than us, would they? I don’t think so. Yes, we should be asking the question of why we have so many injuries and that is a thorny question for those who know what they are talking about on that front – not me for sure.

    Ash – your post started well but then you created a new disease and accused me of having it – it made me chuckle though! Should I invent the opposite type of disease and accuse you of having it? I can’t think of one as good as untoldnessitis…

    I expect we’ll al feel better after a nice thrashing of Galatasary come Wednesday. Here’s hoping.

  • BILL FROM MANHATTAN

    All these moaners and groaners should just shut the fuck up. A couple of results don’t go the Arsenal’s way and these motherfucking douche-bags come scurrying outta the woodwork like fucking cockroaches. Fact # 1- You are not going to win every match. Fact # 2- All your Wenger-bashing don’t mean shit, He ain’t going nowhere, So you assholes better get used to it. Fact # 3- Do you deluded, pathetic, whiny little dick-heads think that it’s your divine right that your club win each and every game. From what I am reading you pompous idiots actually do. Fact # 4- 99 percent of all the football teams in England would give their right arm to achieve what Wenger has done for our club. Fact # 5- It’s only been 6 games played out of 38, So lets see how the whole season pans out. Fact # 6- If all of England in 1940 had the same gloom and doom attitude as you little motherfuckers are showing now, You would be whining about the Arsenal not in English, But in German. Fact # 7- Stop your childish tirades cause no one wants to hear them, Man up and grow a pair of balls you fucking little eunuchs.

  • Ash79

    Sally – lets hopse so eh re Weds night! 🙂

    Bill – you total turd of a man. A couple of results???? you are so stupid, it beggars belief. Your post clearly shows you have no idea what we are talking about at all or have any udnerstanding of how the club is being run. Bet you use thats ame post season in season out not noticing that every season is the same. To stoop to your level; dear me, what a total fuckin moron. THAT is the dumbest post i have read ever on a blog. Fuck me, its terrible.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    BILL, brilliant, and justified!!!Gave me the best moment of the day.

  • sally could you list those 9 injured players for me please,,

    How long can we blame luck when the same thing happens year after year with injuries?

  • bjtgooner

    Well said BILL!

  • johnny

    Sadly, you’re conning yourself if you still think Wenger is a good manager in the year 2014, an FA Cup doesn’t change that. I’ll just leave two questions…what do you think is going to happen this weekend when a Wenger prepared team plays Chelsea away? And you think that’s ok do you? Well ok then, you’re happy with not even trying properly and I applaud you for that.

  • Sally Pally

    Magic – they are listed on the Physio room injury table page. Perhaps the FA should look to stop the leg-breaking tackles and grinding down of players with anti-football that even City resorted to against us last time round.

    Ash – A lot of people feel the way Bill does but not everyone puts it quite so humorously. But the points that Bill makes behind the tough love rhetoric are valid ones. We are in a fantastic position as a football club from every angle you look at it. There are plenty of doom-monger sites out there for whiners and whingers. Hopefully you are just having a bad day. Take a leaf out of Woody Harrelson’s book and come out all guns blazing in support of this great club and great manager.

  • Johnny – or to put it another way, do you have the slightest evidence that the repeated accusations against Wenger actually make the world better. It has been going on since he joined the club, first by the press then picked up by commentators such as you. And what exactly have you achieved?

  • ARSENAL 13

    Herbert Chapman, no doubt a legendary manager. A visionary who changed the way we look at football.

    He has attained a hallowed status at ARSENAL. People present and past all talk of him being the best manager the ARSENAL has ever had. Is he? I wonder how people would gave judged him on a daily basis had he been managing ARSENAL today.

    I am proud to know that we had a legendary manger like him in the past and also glad and extremely proud that we have another legendary manager managing our present.

    I feel sad that he doesn’t get the due credit and respect(from certain quarters).

    Mr Wenger will always be remembered as one of the ARSENALs greatest if not the greatest.

  • Drew Gray

    Ash79 was presumably born in 1979 in the year when we almost threw away the FA Cup in the last few moments. Thankfully Alan Sunderland (who is strangely morphing into Jimmy Greaves…) made sure of the silverware. Ash’s age is of course irrelevant, but then so is much of this chatter. As Bill so delicately puts it, Wenger is going nowhere until he decides it is time for him to do so.

    So what Ash or anyone else has to say frankly makes no difference whatsoever.

    We are all entitled to an opinion just as we are all entitled to read whichever blog we like, buy whatever newspaper we like, and support whichever club we like. When I was about 8 (or eight years before Ash may or may not have entered the world) I chose Arsenal. My dad took me as it was the team he supported. I loved it and was hooked from that first glimpse of the Highbury turf.

    All through my teenage years I stood on the North Bank with my mates and cheered what was often a pretty poor Arsenal team. We won (1979 excepting) pretty much f*uck all. I still went and cheered.

    Under Graham we won the league (on Merseyside…) and some cups and I was happy but we also lost the league cup (vs Luton) and I was sad.

    I still supported MY team

    Then Mr Wenger arrived – who? and an unparalleled period of success followed. Its been bloody amazing tbh and fans of almost every other club would love some of what he have. Last week I took a Soton fan to the Ems, his jaw was on the floor at how great our stadium is: the best in English football

    I have a season ticket in the NB lower. I’m very lucky. I don’t agree with every decision, i am unhappy when we lose or draw, i want to win every game and every trophy but like Tony, I don’t see the point in carping at the manager or the club. If I reach the point where that happens it will be because I’ve fallen out of love with the Arsenal. And I’ll stop going.

    If you’ve got to that point already then please shut the door on the way out, the rest of us are quite happy thank you

  • Ash79

    Drew – Maybe i just hold teh lcub and management to higher standards. Maybe I just hold them to the standards of an elite club which it the club holds itself out to be. Maybe I want and expect better from my club.

    You have no money – understand
    You make mistakes – understand
    You buy rubbish players – understand, it happens, fergie bought a truck load
    You lose games – happens,this is football

    what i will not tolerate is not trying. When you have money to spend and strengthen and buy what is needed and you simply choose to persist in pet projects. When you choose to not respect yoru opponent and prepare for a match with them in mind. When you choose to keep trying teh same thing over and over again with little end result. This is gross mismanagement.

    I love Arsene Wenger. I will always be grateful for what this man has done for my club. But at the end of the day, it is MY club, not his, not Arsene FC. The game has moved on, he hasnt. He can not compete against big teams anymore. People asking for new players etc etc its pointless. We could buy Ronaldo and Messi and Arsene still not be able to get the best out of them or know what to do with them. Its not players we need, its a new manager with new ideas, a motivator etc. Thanks Arsene, time to move on. (Not upstairs please)

    Drew – quite right, end of the day doesnt matter what I say cos sadly he will stay on as long as the board keep throwing him money. FA Cup was a great time to bow out, he didnt take it. Instead at the least he should have kicked on this season – we havent.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    I do not believe in constructive chaos theory which is what I am hearing from ASH79 and his ilk. Ripping down the entire Arsenal edifice, firing Arsene Wenger and continuously denigrating all the players is a recipe for chaos at the club. It is a Tottenham solution. It is a way of going about business that is an anathema to the Arsenal way of doing things.

    Can we be better? Yes.
    Are we trying to be better? Yes, I believe so.
    Can it all be done in one summer? No. Even the petro-charged teams of the Premiership needed a few years of immense spending to get to the top. Now that we are relatively better off financially, it will take a few years to get to the top. And, given the continued disparity of funds available to some teams and the seemingly toothless regulatory climate, I feel comfortable in saying that we will never be able to dominate but we will be there to compete.

    As supporters and regular denizens of this website, we understand the limitations of supporters and so we have consciously decided to be positive, to support the club. We critique; we do not criticize. And, we enjoy life. Have a great day you Gooners!

  • BILL FROM MANHATTAN

    To all the little whiny motherfuckers out there in cyber-land. When are you fucking dick-heads gonna get it through your addled little brains that life is not perfect. One doesn’t get everything that they desire. Do you assholes really think about how you come off. Didn’t get a defensive mid fielder, So lets whine endlessly about it. Don’t have enough defenders, So let me cry a river of tears. I want a new manager, So lets disparage the best one our club has ever had. We drew 1-1 vs Spurs, So according to you assholes, Life is over. Life is like a game of poker, You get dealt a bad hand, You play the cards you have. Act like an adult. Stop your incessant complaining, Don’t you motherfucking little dick-heads know how pathetic it makes you seem to the real world. Makes me sick to my stomach to hear grownups cry and whine worst than children about a sporting event. It;s a football match, Not life and death. Grow the fuck up. But then again, God created little whiny motherfucking assholes just as he did geniuses like our manager.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    BILL, second best moment of the day!

  • Ash79

    Bill – you are truly an awful specimen. Denial denail denial denial denial… like a man who’s wife has been cheating on him for a decade and refusesd to ever listen to his mates tell the truth. Denial lad, denial. Same shit different season, same old comments. Hope you’re happy being as competitive as Tottenham. Small dreams, small minds.

  • Ash79

    easily impressed eh Kenneth 🙂

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    What a patronising person you are Ash79.We dummies at UA are so in awe of your intellectual verbosity,thanks for stopping by its been a while since I recall you writing,we all now see the light now, thanks! You state that you’re looking for debate, but why do you do it in such and unfriendly manner?You don’t want to debate or exchange ideas, you want to put people in the ground to make yourself feel better. Then you patronise anyone that has a viewpoint that stands up to your emphatic hatred of Wenger,and as Walter wrote, plenty of what you’ve written today is supposition.But supposition isnt the problem is it?Pessimism is your own problem. Its that you can’t stand losing,if Arsenal would have won you wouldn’t have come here to needle anyone that might be around.You accuse Walter of no dignity but wheres yours then?
    Year after year many people here offer also sorts of counter arguments to all those points that youve put forward and but for us its so tedious that after Arsenal lose a game that your type comes along to vent spleen.And youre all the same type,strangely aggressive, patronising. and supercilious.I hope you feel better now, and that UA can do a service for you that no other blog can.One day Wenger will go, and you can dance around the maypole.Big deal.
    I hope you’ve enjoyed being the King of the AAA dung heap today.To be honest you are a complete ouroboric bore.
    A tip, you’re not going to convert anyone at UA, we know all the stats and facts, business is business and all that crap, it gets shoved down our throats every week by a person just like yourself,so why dont you find another place to “debate”as you call it?Who wants to debate with a smart aleck like you? You come across as some kind of public school boy know all, like the person that went under the name “surfer X”.He took the same line as you.In the end if you could come down of your high horse you might find people approachable.But thats not why you came here is it?
    What is there to debate? You think Wengers crap and the club is in some kind of decline and at the moment other people here don’t think so.You wish somebody to be the UA mouthpiece for that and engage with you, but UA and posters are putting there view out all the time, every day, if you cant be bothered to be part of that in a friendly way, then thats your problem.Yet you expected people to be polite and friendly to you.Why should you be singled out for some kind of ridiculous debate at such an early stage in the season? Nobody can be bothered, thats all; not with someone of your attitude.BILLs right though, from the outside its plain as day.If you perceive BILLS post as being the dumbest you ever read on a blog, then either you’re a liar or dont surf around too much.And seeing that you’re often over at Le Grove, I would go for the former.I also notice that you slag off the team on a regular basis by a simple search on the net.Unless theres another Ash79.In which caase all apologies.
    If you dumped the superciliousness you might have found some people engaging with your worries. And you are full of fear.And an attention seeker.You must be lonely over there.
    Its true, its not Arsènes club nor is it yours.Its something else.
    I have a bet on with a friend speculating the exactly retort you will make back, so please comply.

  • Ash79

    Kenneth – many thanks for that post. I dont recall being rude with anyone. If anything i have been attacked yet maintaned an absolute state of tranquilness. It has been fun today. No i am not trying to convert you, I know people here are entrenched in their views asmuch as i am in mine. Only difference is I’m happy to come here and try and understand what you chaps are all about and see if i may have missed a trick somewhere and i may have been wrong all along. Seems i wasnt but i appreciate your comments none the less. Nice of you to pop overto le Grove, should have left us a post, we could ‘debate’. I am flatterred and a litle scared that you would google me, not your usual modus oeprandi i hope. I take offence at being labelled a public school boy, simply because i am not and atthat being singled out as one by a pseudo intellectual – it smarts really.

    Back to the club – teh club is not in decline, far from it, we are on the up but my point is Arsene isnt the man to ride this upward curve. You need not agree with me but you need not be overly defensive and rude either.

    I hope you win your bet Kenneth, if you do, you owe me a cut.

    kisses x

  • Ash79

    Right Cult UA, time to leave you to your fun and games.

    Props to Sally for engaging me in a nice constructive way.

    I do love you all. Like Tottenham, if they didnt exist it would be very boring.

    Just occurred to me that besiktas arein town thursday – the turkish kebab houses will be jam packed this week down holloway road!

    night night

  • Steely O'Leary

    Bill

    Ash has done nothing but show you truth, yet you’re so blinded by the cult of Wenger you seem to of forgotten what Arsenal FC is all about.
    Gutless, tepid and mediocre are not terms i’d equate with this club, yet is how we perform. On paper we should of dispatched the Spurs with venom, yet were brought below there level. A recurring theme of late.

    Sadly we’ve currently no identity in terms of our play, something Wenger used to thrive on but seems to of lost contact with in recent years. Support the club, not the man.

  • Notoverthehill

    “I love Arsene Wenger. I will always be grateful for what this man has done for my club.”

    Ash79, it never was and never will be, your club!

    Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

    Tony and Walter, better you than me.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    Judged solely on how he comports himself on our boards and his arguments, I wouldn’t want to work with someone like Ash79. Positivity, kindness and humility seem absent.

  • BILL FROM MANHATTAN

    Kenneth Widmerpool, Your post at 7:59 P.M. You really made Ash79 like the douche-bag he really is. I wonder why assholes of his ilk come on this Pro-Wenger and Pro-Arsenal site to spew their stupid and baseless rhetoric. They really are lacking in brain matter to see how pathetic they look to most normal sane people. I find your style to be most pleasant and you never lower yourself to those other stupid little motherfuckers level. As for myself, My sainted mother always told me not to stoop to the level of the low-bred, But alas that is one lesson that didn’t take.Too much time for the Bill running the streets. Wish I were as eloquent as yourself, But as my adored mother told me people in hell want ice water but that don’t mean they are ever gonna get it. Your post made my day. Many thanks for putting Ash79hole in his slimy little hole. Keep up the good fight.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Cheers BILL! likewise mate!
    COYG! Aha and Amen!

  • Sally Pally

    No need to get chummy with me, Ash. I just happened to have more patience than some today with the drivel negativity. When I see some of your comments about our manager being mad, the slagging off of some good old boys on here and the general way you have behaved I realise that you have no manners and no clue today really. People don’t want posts to degenerate into slanging matches, they want them to be constructive for our club. Some of the hardest and most honourable people I know have the best manners and to gain their friendship is an honour. But then again some don’t and you shouldn’t test the patience of people who I suspect you would be much more wary of in real life. Just because I was friendly to you doesn’t mean that I agree with a word you say. Most people give others a few goes but you blew it several times over. You have a brain so why not use it and show some manners if you ever return.

  • db10

    Wow. Mob mentality is rife in here. I don’t agree with Ash79 sentiment but don’t recall him having slanging matches or being rude. You’ve all labelled him rude yet this foul mouth bill fella gets a free pass. Poor form guys.

    Hearing that Ramsey could be out for up to 6 weeks. I’m keen to see Coquelin come in now. Diaby isn’t realistic and Cow is far more athletic than flamini. I think matty could be moved on next summer.

  • Jet

    Johnny, spot on. No attempt to answer any of your questions. When they get ruffled they throw their toys out the pram like cry baby bill.

  • Tasos

    Johnny has politely answered his own questions.

    Which begs the question why did he bother in the first place?

  • I agree ash your so out of order. When Arsène impregnates me, if we have a boy I’m not naming it after you.rude man

  • Florian

    Late to the party a usual but nonetheless:

    It’s a great post Tony, as usual. Strangely, one that shouldn’t be repeated so often as every few weeks. I sometimes feel that some things should be self-explanatory but alas some people just don’t get it. Or maybe their idea of support is by bashing the club like a horse. Well, even doing too much of that is a problem as the horse will end up throwing the jockey off the saddle, so really, it defies comprehension.

    Btw, that includes the pundits too. Shamefully so, some of them former players in our ranks. In addition to your comment Tony, it’s difficult to figure out why Lee Dixon gets a seat in the commentators’ box. Or maybe that is self-explanatory;)

    Moving on, the collective disease that the AAA and their likes is chronically suffering from is a total lack of perspective. One game and we’re doomed. Only 6 defenders ffs. I could go on and on. Sadly, when presented with evidence, most of them refuse to accept it. The reasons are actually quite easy to guess, so I won’t bother enumerating them. Suffice to say that I spent 2 days arguing with a group of “benevolent” “fans” because I dared to say something positive about Arsenal on a Facebook thread. I was able to shut them up fort a while with cold hard evidence (like I learned from Untold), but of course they came back after a while. Even funnier was their motivation – this is what we are – as if there was no desire to look past their little horizon. In their view I’m just a staunch fan – which is probably right, except that if we look the opposite way it casts a dark shadow not only on the supporters as a group, but on the very root of the notion. It is therefore even more puzzling why they still choose to visit sites like Untold, where their opinion is not valued.

    So, in the end, thank you Tony, for another great piece of writing. Makes one’s day.

  • Florian

    Oh, and to all that come here to spew their irrationalities: The moment one stops thinking is the moment they get downgraded to the ancestral animalistic rank. We here prefer to be humans.

  • Jet

    rixy (Arsenal): englands best – Give it a rest mate. People are entitled to their opinions. Anyone with half a footballing brain will tell you that Ozil’s best position is a classic No. 10, behind the main striker – so why did Wenger start him out on the left and not Alexis? Why did he keep Alexis on the bench, a player desperate to get amongst it against the Spuds? If anyone is being one-eyed, it’s that stubborn old buffoon and his massive ego. He thinks he knows best. Given the points we’ve dropped, the soft goals we’ve conceded and the moronic team selections he has made, he clearly doesn’t. A more-or-less certain defeat at Stamford Bridge this weekend and that will be yet another title-challenge up the spout for another year and it’s nobody’s fault except that tactically brain-dead penny-pinching old fossil. An eight million pounds a year salary for the same old rubbish. Wenger Out!

  • WalterBroeckx

    Ash79,
    If you would have read Untold for a few years you would have read an article in which after the painful league cup exit on december 11 a few years ago an article about transfers.
    A top man at the club spoke to me and told me that the time was changing and that they would spend the f*cking money. When I wrote it I was ridiculized by people like you. Since then we bought Özil and this season Alexis, Welbeck, Chambers and have spend the 3rd most money.

    That same top man told me a few other things. He told me that the club and management would make sure that new buys would not turn in to a burden for the club. Yes a few players didn’t bring what was expected. But it was all we could afford with the money we had. Some gambles and a few didn’t pay off. But that wouldn’t happen any more he said. Again I was called all sorts of names by people like you. But again I can say that he kept his word. I think what we have bought the last seasons was great value for money.

    This person told me that the club was changing rapidly and that the future would bring much better times. Non more frustrated than the manager and the board. But they were fighting oil man with only a fistful of dollars in our pockets.

    He also told me that if the right target was not available for whatever reason, they would not throw their money away on easy and probably not good enough options that would burden the future buys.

    If you are not patient enough to go through the whole process… okay fair enough. But I know that I was told that we would spend the fucking money on top players and we did.

    But I do have the patience and give the management the time to go further on the new road we have entered ONLY 12 months ago.

  • WalterBroeckx

    I WANT IT NOW!!!
    Well as City showed last season, the league is won at the end of the season.

  • Steely O'Leary

    Walter,

    If you’re honest have we bought players with a plan in mind to fit a system or bought them because they have “quality and became available”?
    This current formation requires a holding player whom can protect the back four, Arteta and Flamini are beyond that and will always be exposed with this formation.
    To not purchase a Schneiderlin or Bender yet put more emphasis on the position by lining up in this manner makes little sense to me as i’d imagine it does you. See Dortmunds pressing, or the last two goals Flamini has essentially conceded to our detriment.

    Thats not even touching on Ozil shunting out wide and a toothless offense. His performance against Villa was all anyone needed to see about his preferred role of playing in the middle.. he may of even smiled! Regardless the proof was in the performance, he needs to dictate play from the #10 and drift from the hole into whichever lane may be open. Not the opposite. Critical to our season as it stands.

  • Andrew

    Walter my old chap, that still does not explain the hideous defeats time and time again. And why he can’t drum up one win against that clown over the road. Sincerely hope you are right about the other things

  • Ces1ne

    Um, I don’t have any agenda or history on this site but it seems to me that “BILL FROM MANHATTAN” is quite the tough guy with the way he speaks to others. Seeing as I also live & work in Manhattan……BILL, if you would like to back up all those harsh & unnecessary childish words you threw out in that earlier post, please shoot me an email at CES1NCE@gmail.com & maybe we can have a meet up & “discuss” how rude you are. Pathetic from all involved, from the LeGrove troll to the UA troll……man up or speak respectfully!!!!

    Like I said, I don’t frequent this site…..so replies on here will fall on deaf ears. If BILL FROM MANHATTAN or any other child with a big mouth would like to reach me…….hit me up at CES1NCE@gmail.com.

  • ee, yet Florian

    Andrew,

    The answer is that those “hideous defeats” and “one win against the clown down the road” are insignificant details when you put things in perspective. A heavy defeat is only hurting the goal difference to a degree, while it’s still 3 points lost. Same as if we’d lose by one-nil, and the same against any team, including cheatski. Which, incidentally, are tougher to beat than Villa and the likes. Hope that makes sense to you.

  • Florian

    Btw, it’s me, the tablet keyboard is a piece of work.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Sounds like the guy you met from the club is a very wise man Walter. What you say may explain a few things in terms of those who have arrived….and maybe those who have not arrived at the club

  • Josif

    I’ve been a regular blogger elsewhere and sporadic commentator here. I read all articles published here and at the historical site. (Which reminds me of something that I find very important as an Arsenal fan from Bosnia: I think that historical site should add another event to 15th August – 15th August 1976: Arsenal played against FK Željezničar Sarajevo in Bosnia, I think that was the only time Arsenal played in my country. The match was played due to 55th birthday of Željezničar and it ended 1:1. If you need more informations about that game, I’m willing to contribute.)

    My view on Untold Arsenal is not entirely black and white. There are articles that I enjoy reading – informative, different and pointing at referees’ massacres that we have been subjected to during recent years. There have been a lot of articles that provide statistics of the referees and their biases. There have been articles about players from a different point of view that actually make me reconsider my own opinion (i.e. Walter’s brilliant piece on Fellaini). Then, there are articles that look like a booklet from Soviet Union or something that only McCarthyism would be proud of – articles fulfilled with constructions that can’t be proved with evidences. The biggest irony is that the latter articles are, actually, the real AAA-behaviour in their essence – creating division among the body of Arsenal fans by turning divided groups into enemies is a hostile act towards the club itself. Of course, even if that might be considered as a firm evidence – a word that Mr Attwood obviously likes a lot so he had to dedicate two points in his article – of an anti-Arsenal behaviour, it would be silly to deny someone dedicated to Arsenal the right to consider himself a bona fidei Arsenal supporter.

    One of the biggest flaws of the blog is the most obvious one: there is a rather false statement at the very beginning. “Football news from an Arsenal perspective” – it’s not just that it sounds pretentious as Jose Mourinho but also misguiding to Arsenal fans worldwide. All articles are not from an Arsenal perspective – this site is not an official site of Arsenal Football Club. I think it’s the fact that we don’t need to prove.

    There are articles – like the recent one about Kroenke’s 3 millions – that Arsenal FC would never put on the official site. Same goes about the criticism of certain things at the stadium or about Arsenal pulling out of the fanshare project. So, the part “support the club” in the title is at least exaggerated. If I remember well, there was also an article that (slightly) questioned whether Wenger has enough support from the board when it comes to transfers. I think it dates back to 2011.

    When Arsenal fans with a different view on, say, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain’s status than Arsene Wenger’s state their opinion, suddenly the word “support” is reserved only for the manager and player’s mistakes from the Chelsea game are stressed out. The manager is flawless and untouchable, the players – not so much. That makes the part of supporting the players at least exaggerated.

    Moving on to the more essential things. Arsene Wenger himself has recently stated that we lack physical presence in the midfield. BANG! After years of mocking the idea of the DM-beast-hole in Arsenal team, Mr Attwood probably felt a bit like the Japanese soldier who didn’t know that The Emperor had capitulated. (If he didn’t, he should have had.) Of course, Mr Attwood – as a psychologist – used a very useful tactic: “Let’s ignore it, maybe they’ll forget it!” After all, when I asked Mr Attwood a few days ago if he could guess without Google which AAA had stated that we lack physical presence in the midfield, he answered: “Josif, no I can’t. I don’t go searching AAA commentaries – I just report the oddest ones that I find.” So, if someone criticizes the manager and/or club policy with hard arguments, Mr Attwood will simply ignore them and point at the oddest ones (probably the most idiotic comments among those who criticize Wenger) in order to prove that most of the people who criticize Wenger are just like that. (Which is, of course, far from truth – most of the bloggers I’ve read are down-to-earth-people who give a rational criticism without wanting Arsenal to lose only to prove their point.)

    Speaking of the knowledge of the fans, I have to confess something: I still suffer from Wenger-believitis when it comes to the new signings until they prove wrong. I was actually thrilled with our squad before we both loaned out Jenkinson and sold Vermaelen – not because Vermaelen was important player in the last 15 months of his Arsenal career (despite being the captain, he was a back-up player) or because Jenko was excelling at the time (he wasn’t) but because of leaving us short with options at the center of our defence.

    When we signed Silvestre, I was happy because I thought: “If there is anyone who knows French players, it’s Arsene.” When we signed Cygan, I was happy for two reasons: “Arsene knows French players and I watched Cygan at Lille – he must be a success for us!” Same thing happened with Squillaci: “He has played for Sevilla and Monaco in their very successful European campaigns, scored a goal that virtually knocked out Los Galacticos… Arsene knows!” Now, on the positive side for Untold, I must admit that Untold and Walter were the first one to shake my belief in Marouane Fellaini’s suitability for Arsenal. But then again, I’m the man who would sign Fellaini and passed on Suarez in the summer 2013. I wanted Fellaini at Arsenal to add physical presence to our midfield and I didn’t want Suarez as I don’t want anyone racism-related at Arsenal.

    (More on the topic of knowledge – I really, really can’t believe that anyone who is into football didn’t know how good Robert Pires and Thierry Henry had been prior to their respective moves to Arsenal. I remember EURO 2000 Final when Pires turned the game around for France – the Bosnian commentator said that “Pires has agreed terms with Real Madrid – it’s a done deal”. I was so thrilled to see him signing for Arsenal not so long after that – I knew that he would make a huge success for us, sooner or later. Same goes for Thierry Henry – he was brilliant for AS Monaco in Champions’ League and was important player in their league victory.)

    From the points Mr Attwood wrote in his article, the most interesting point is this:

    “9. Who would manage us instead?”

    Well, we have a problem here. Unless it’s proved otherwise, I think it’s a safe bet to say that Arsene Wenger won’t be our manager forever. So, at some point, someone will have to manage us instead of Wenger. Just like someone had to manage us after Herbert Chapman. Or after George Graham.

    The best answer for the question stated above is actually the question: “What if someone during the last years of George Graham’s era came to Mr Attwood and suggested that certain Arsene Wenger would be even better manager for Arsenal than George Graham, one of the best managers Arsenal have ever had, in the same manner some people suggest that, say, Jürgen Klopp would be a better option for Arsenal than Arsene Wenger?”

  • tunnygriff

    If we had signed Schniederlin and kept Vermalaen we would be contenders. We bought so well elsewhere and I am hugely frustrated that we didn’t go that extra mile to be more solid defensively. I just hope that we can stay in touch until January and then buy the reinforcements we need.

    As for the dangerous number of injuries we have, something really needs to be looked at.

  • Ray from Norfolk, Virginia

    Tony,
    Fantastic read. I did not have time to read the many comments, but I will add:
    -Arsene Wenger is ethical, and he does not lie or deceive
    -Arsene Wenger does not accept dirty play from his players
    -Arsene Wenger is an aesthete and is thus misunderstood
    -Arsene Wenger values the viewers and the fans, and tries to play attractive entertaining football
    -Arsene Wenger can operate within any budget without the itch to move to greener pastures
    -Arsene Wenger is the reason the invincibles came to be
    -Arsene Wenger has class, and class is permanent

  • All I can say is that without this site and the Positively Arsenal site I would find supporting the team a lonely old business. Thanks for all the good and entertaining work.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Well done guys ! Would have waded in if I wasn’t busy getting my beauty sleep !
    Some real pieces of AAAA shit on here , throwing it like monkeys !
    A big LIKE for Bill’s comments – awesome ! Mucho respecto !
    Well done the AKBs , for countering them with logic and giving them hell .
    At times it sounded like a WWF tag team match with unlimited bullshit on their side , but you guys destroyed them with class , grace and panache .
    WOO HOO , HOO !

  • db10

    Josif, that’s by far the best post on here. I’ve noticed that at times too. Instead of answering the question, it’s ignored and the same old drum is banged I.e. “you’re all doomers, cheer up blah blah blah” it’s very boring and shows there is no credible argument.

  • none

    Well its about to get worse…

    Chelsea v Arsenal
    Martin Atkinson M Mullarkey S Child J Moss

  • Gooner S

    @Josef and @Db10

    There is a credible argument and it as been put forth so many times most of us are fed up with it. Nobody listens. The constant criticism and over reacting after a defeat has been going on for years during a time when frankly those criticising should have known better or had a modicum of understanding. Now Arsenal fans are entrenched in their views. Whenever we win there is relative peace and quiet. When we lose all hell breaks loose. I’m frankly fed up with it.

    None of us know what really goes on in the club. Tony doesn’t pretend to. Some other bloggers arent quite so honest. Here’s the rub. It isnt going to change until Wenger retires. So lets all deal with it and support the team.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Josif,
    could you link me to what Wenger said about lacking physical presence?
    Thank you.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    “Then, there are articles that look like a booklet from Soviet Union or something that only McCarthyism would be proud of – articles fulfilled with constructions that can’t be proved with evidences”.
    Josif, I would also be genuinely interested to see these too.

  • Lance

    ee, yet Florian
    September 29, 2014 at 11:28 pm: That is the most pathetic comment I have heard in the history of mankind. Just when you think you couldn’t get any more stupid you come on here and some one is bound to out do the last one.

    So let me get this straight, it doesn’t really matter how much we concede as it’s only 3 points lost? Please confirm before I get ready to throw the kitchen sink on your head.

  • Lance

    There’s a lot of blame being put on wenger’s tactics and rightly so,but I think one major issue that needs to be addressed is the player’s Mentality to win the games. I’veI’ve already said these previously but the reason why I’m hating this current team is simply because they are acting like real losers on the pitch.No eagerness to win games,no determination,no commitment.It’s like the players just want to get the game to get over.I want to see the aggression in the players.Pick fights with the opponents and especially in a derby there was not one player that showed it was a derby.These current crop of players are losers and no matter which player comes in even if he has a strong mentality wenger will turn it into a loser one.That’s why I think we can get even messi and Ronaldo but we will not win the PL. Also not to mention we lack leadership and literally there’s not one player that acts like one.

  • Lance

    @db10
    September 30, 2014 at 7:34 am

    Spot on. As soon as you ask a few telling questions you will notice to have touch a nerve. Nobody will answer the question, instead, turning defensive and telling you to go and support another club. No intelligence, just dumb words holding onto past glories.

  • Lance

    Efficiency was the hallmark of the early Wenger era Arsenal. Players like Vieira rarely made a movement which didn’t benefit the team and of course Bergkamp was so ruthlessly efficient that he knew what he wanted to do with the ball before it even came to him, as you saw in the videos above.

    This efficiency would reach its peak with the Invincibles. No team was as efficient at winning games both offensively and defensively as that Arsenal side. Since then, Arsenal have struggled to regain that ruthless efficiency. A struggle we saw in today’s fixture, where Arsenal took 16 shots, 15 corners, and forced Spurs to make 44 clearances and yet only created two real chances to score and scored just one goal.

    Perhaps like beauty, efficiency is ephemeral.

    Absolutely bang on from 7amkickoff.

  • Pete

    Lance – Your comment about the mentality is ridiculous.

    We score a very high proportion of goals in the last 15 minutes or so of games. We have already come from behind this season against Palace, Everton, Man City and Sp*rs. Maybe we shouldn’t have been behind – but you absolutely can not accuse the players of being “real losers”. Haven’t actually lost in the League for nearly six months!

    Most of your remaining points are plain wrong as well. As noted earlier in the thread, we have increased our points totals season after season for four years. That is the fact. All your points are opinions completely unsupported by any evidence whatsoever.

  • WalterBroeckx

    My god how on earth didn’t we stay unbeaten for all the Vieira years? He never made a mistake if I can believe some. Well, wake up call: he did. And some high profile too.
    But that will probably have been Wengers fault also…

  • WalterBroeckx

    Intresting Pete that those who speak of losing mentality in the players are usually the ones that say we will get trashed next Sunday. Speaking about losing mentality….

    It might happen, it might not happen. Nobody knows.
    But if you say it will happen then it is you with the losing mentality.
    Perhaps they are projecting their own losing mentality on to the players?

  • db10

    WalterBroeckx
    September 30, 2014 at 10:58 am

    Perhaps they are projecting their own losing mentality on to the players?

    ——
    Haha yes that’s it isn’t it. the fans are thinking we will lose, so that’s why gibbs was in chelseas half after 5mins and we conceded. That’s why ox handled and we got a man sent off.

  • Andrew

    Problem with Arsenal is that we look vulnerable on the counter and create very little upfront in almost ALL games. Without Giroud, we are absolutely no threat in set pieces. As much as I believe we need a solid defensive midfielder (In my opinion Tiote or Carvalho)1 player will not fix our problems. We do not defend as a unit, plain and simple. In attack, I found it funny the amount of crosses that came into the box with absolutely noone there again a Giroud required situation. Not blaming our fullbacks, as it is what they are suppose to do but.. Wow! We are just not clinical enough on the break and we really do miss Theo for this but again, not one player is the difference. A change of formation and tactics during games is what I believe should happen. Wenger is and will always be a legend at the club but could it be time to move him up the ladder and bring in fresh new ideas? I only believe two managers here could do the job, Guardiola and Klopp.. Thoughts??

  • WalterBroeckx

    Now surely you Wenger haters are not very good in your job. After all your effort the result is that I still am convinced that Wenger is the man to lead us further and long may it continue.

    I think you are just wasting your time and ours. 😉 Which reminds me to visit the time wasting article

  • Pete

    db10 – You can’t change the past, I can’t change the past, no one can change the past. What is important is the future. Let’s hope appropriate lessons have been learned.

    I’m sure Chelsea took on board appropriate lessons after we beat them 5-3 rather than flagellating themselves for months on end.

  • Lance

    Once we scored the equaliser, I was convinced that we’d go on and win it with the attacking players we had on the pitch and the wind in our sails but it wasn’t to be. We’ve lost some of our fluency from last season. Our combination game isn’t where it should be just yet although we’ve seen it in patches like against City recently. I think that is partly why Alexis hasn’t been in the side. Wonderful player, amazing at what he does but he doesn’t always work well with the team. Hopefully that will be something that can be addressed sooner rather than later because when he is on the pitch we look more dangerous trouble is, at present we also look more erratic when he is on the pitch

  • Lance

    If just existing in top 4 isn’t your thing, is we’re unlikely to drop out of it this year. Wenger is going to scrape by as per-usual. Spurs were the worst version I’ve seen in 5 years, truly there for the taking at the weekend. Everton look lost at the moment. Liverpool will have to find some serious grit to deal with the loss of Suarez and the accomplishment of Champions League football. Then you have United who could blow up, well, continue to tank because LVG and his ways seen a touch mismatched for this league.

    How can we not finish in the top 4?

    So all together, we survive because of the incompetence of the rest of the league. You might say that shows how incredible Wenger is… or, you might see the wood for the trees, or the tactical failings, or the lack of major trophies, or the injuries, or the lack of vision or the wasted talent played out of position… and say, jeez, someone else might do a better job.

    I mean, Dortmund totally tanked us, mainly because they had a plant against a team who actively resist one. Since we beat them, they’ve lost to Mainz, who have a great young coach in Tuchel… they drew to Stuttgart… they lost to Schalke. They were another team like Spurs who’ve looked as weak as I’ve seen them over the last 6 years. We made them look world class.

    Arsenal are very lucky the rest of the league is such a shambles. Arsenal are very unlucky that we don’t have a better manager, because we certainly have the players in place to build a brilliant squad. All the ingredients are there for a better Arsenal, bar the right manager. Who that manager is, I don’t know… but from the outside, looking in, it’s pretty apparent there are many broken items that could easily be fixed and easily improve us.

    We have to face it, it’s Elite club purgatory for three more years.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Lance, send your cv to Arsenal.
    Gazidis will offer you Wenger his job I think

  • db10

    Lance -ive often thought that the competition hasbeen hit and miss in recent years. United recent titles were won with pretty average teams and poor squads but everyone just gifts it to them. We could easily have capitalised but we never do.

    you look at the rivals and tehy have all had management changes or star names leaving yet our so called lauded stability as doen fuck all for us as the boss refuses to capitalise.

    but hey what do i know, im just a fan.

  • Tasos

    @Lance

    Got any opinions of your own?

    Or do you copy n paste only?

  • db10

    Tasos – it doesnt matter if its lifted. The content remains true.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Tasos,
    I think he got his opinion from Le Grove.

    You know the website that changes comments in order to make the person who comments makes him look like a fool. Well that is if you don’t belong to the Wenger bashing club over there.
    And when you ask them: why did you do this (changing my comment) then they ban you.

  • N5

    WalterBroeckx, you seem to take any criticism personally. It’s a little childish to keep saying to people send your CV to Arsenal because they have an opinion, or whatever other abusive retort you’ve decided to voice! should we not question law if we’re not police man? should we not question governance if we’re not MPs? should we all just except whatever happens to us, all the time, anywhere?

  • Lance

    Yes, it’s from le grove but don’t see anyone having a teaspoon of a word against that content. My earlier comments echo what he has been saying.

  • Lance

    @DB10 – Bang on the money fella. Fegies last year in charge, arguably the poorest united team, yet he got them to oust the russian mafia and the arabs. And what was wenger doing in that time? Dithering.

  • db10

    N5 – never a truer word ever spoken on THIS site

  • Pete

    Just had a little wander around the web and it was extraordinary the feeling of deja vu I was getting… then I realised that a large number of the comments to this (and other articles) are simply copying and pasting from elsewhere.

    This is absolutely pathetic. All it shows is the commenter (i) has no original thought and (ii) purely wants to ferment dischord. I mean, challenge the thrust of articles if you want but please take the time to make it original and hopefully backed up by some kind of evidential argument. So in addition to being a plagiarizing trouble maker, these people are lazy to boot.

    I am pretty well aware of the slants of the various main Arsenal fan websites – if I choose not to visit a site there is generally a good reason for that. What I object to is having another site’s party line forcefed with it not even being attributed.

    Tony – Can we please get plagiarisers blocked as a matter of course? To be clear, attributed extracts are fine – but passing off is not.

  • db10

    oh Pete, here’s your dummy. now stop being a tell tale…. babies

  • Pete

    While I was typing that comment, I missed the last 10 or so – seems I was ahead of the game.

    If you really think that I, and other readers, could learn something useful from Le Grove or Online Gooner or ANR or wherever then I, personally, do not have a problem with an attributed extract or a link. I do, sometimes, visit all those sites (and more) as there is occasionally something interesting… but it is usually swamped with an overwhelming tide of extreme negativity very quickly.

    I actually support Arsenal because I mostly (obviously not always) enjoy it. And I have found the football over the last few seasons generally pretty enjoyable compared to some periods in our history (early 80s, anyone?).

  • Pete

    db10 – Speak for yourself mate.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Lance, and others,

    you Wenger haters are like flies you know. Buzzing around your head for a while, annoying and then after a while you leave. We had people like you over here each time we lost a match or dropped a point. So not that often really when you look at it.

    So most ignore people like you, some try to tickle you a bit, some try to have a bit of fun.

    The only thing you do is disrupt a bit our usual conversation.

    I think by now you should realize we are incurable.

  • Carim

    @Lance grow up will you. Pete shut up and stop acting like its a frickin nursery- twat

  • db10

    Walter – just admit you wont accept ANY criticism of Arsene Wenger, especially when it is justified.

    Go on, do it, I dare ya.

    I fully understand and admire your support of the boss. I support him too, I want him to be our boss but i want him to change. You want him NOT to change. You like finishing 4th, you like underachieving.

  • Pete

    Carim – Well stop behaving like you’re in one!

  • Carim

    “Shad Forsythe’ fitness regime is undergoing a real baptism of fire and it would be interesting to know the impact it is giving, is Ramsey’s injury a legacy from the ‘old’ ways or symptomatic of a deeper malaise? It could be bad luck, of course, and you should never rule that out, just take steps to minimise its impact. If you believe in luck in these circumstances, that is.”

    We won’t see the results of a new fitness regiume for about 1/2/3 years unfortunatly. The players are all fragile, not something thats corrected in a few months! Was Theo not scheduled to return for these matches? Ramsey hasn’t been playing well, hoping Rosicky can come in and find form! Jack should be rested, i don’t care about the champs league right now, i’d start Diaby and Flamini but the injuries are going to keep coming i think as swapping to a new regime is in itself a risk!

    How Arsene can offer Mikel a new contract but stand and let the likes of Gilberto leave back in the day is odd….

    Sanchez apparently dropped because he slows us down…Hmmm prepare to have your natural flair and talent coached out as you pass sideways but quickly Alexis

  • WalterBroeckx

    I wonder how many of these “new” people who comment on here have been saying for years: we will never ever win anything again as long as Wenger (they then use abusive names of course) is in charge.

    So as their prediction which they expressed with putting the word FACT (in capitals) behind went up in smoke…twice in the last few months it made them look like fools. And so I think they hate Wenger even more than before. So they will take every dropped point now to declare war at Wenger and all who still believes in Wenger.

    They sure will not have enjoyed my article after the FA cup win when I said this is OUR win 😉

  • WalterBroeckx

    db10,
    1 Fa cup
    1 CS

  • N5

    @WalterBroeckx, see there you go again insulting people. I’m a season ticket holder and have been for years and I’m not Anti-Wenger, I’m not Pro-Wenger either, I’m an Arsenal supporter, but you must see all is not great at the moment.

    Debate your point with people and stop throwing insults around at anyone who has a different opinion, it will in turn get you and yours taken more seriously.

    Tony, although very much in the Pro-Wenger group, has debated politely, intelligently and with respect. You could learn a thing or two from him.

  • WalterBroeckx

    N5,
    could you please point out where I am insulting?

  • WalterBroeckx

    I will come back later to this N5 when you have pointed at my insults.

    I have to leave now to go home and then a training of some 2 hours to digest.
    But the sun is shining and I feel fine. Looking forward to it already

  • db10

    WalterBroeckx
    September 30, 2014 at 2:01 pm
    db10,
    1 Fa cup
    1 CS
    —-

    fabulous return eh over the past 8 years….tell you what, lets say 4 years…whats that then? 4 cuprs a year, 16 cups… we have won one. The FA Cup. Loved it, loved winningit, thought we would build on it, clearly Wenger doesnt want to.

    N5 – well said. Tony does engage far better. Walter gets defensive. Many have sai dthis. Matchdays when you’re having a pre-match ale and discuss the blog inevitably, this point does come up. People still like this site but loads switching off because of this defensive attitude and refusal to address anything that criticises Arsene in the slightest. Shame.

  • N5

    @WalterBroeckx, Do you see your posts to the Anti-Wenger fans as debating? You understand you don’t need to be calling people C-words to be insulting right?

    You’re Pro-Wenger, that’s good. I love Arsenal and will support all things Arsenal, even if I don’t agree with all of them, I.E. extending Arteta’s contract, playing Sanogo before he’s ready, having only 6 defenders for a full season and letting TV go. But I will always be front and centre singing all of the players names and cheering the boys on.

    You’re obviously not a stupid man so when you start all this “send your CV then as you know better” stuff, it just makes your previous comments moot.

    I imagine you had a valid point a few posts before you started calling people flies.

    Superiority complex I believe it’s known as.

  • Lance

    Walter, I have been posting on here ad hoc but the problems with Wenger are persistent in almost 8 years. For anyone to wish their club to lose just so they get rid of Wenger is being silly. I higahly doubt the likes of Martinez would have pulled in Sanchez, Ozil. But, there is a but – the failures of the previous seasons cannot go unnoticed. I am still reminded by so many of how we were top of the lg during the new year period only to fizzle out because of the key injuries. We should have sufficient backup – and no Sanogo is not classed as backup – he should be playing football in a school somewhere not at a club like ours.

  • Andrew

    If winning thefFAcCup in the past 9 years is all we have to gloat about then heaven only knows what the ambitions of our manager lies.

  • N5

    DB10, I agree. This is my first time posting on Untold and from an outsider looking in, it does feel very clicky.

    I assumed this was a blog for Arsenal supporters, there isn’t a tagline saying you must always be positive to post here though is there?

    Maybe the rules need updating to say, if you are negative you will be told to send your CV to Arsenal as you know much better. PS I’m taking my ball and going home.

  • Tasos

    Walter.

    Thats the best option. Leave these people to post someone else’s opinion as there own, and then they can all pat each other on the back for a well made point followed by the usual derogatory comment.

    Same meat different gravy. Sad really.

  • N5

    “Same meat different gravy. Sad really.”

    Yet another example of superiority complex. The smugness of this site is enough to let me know it’s not worth posting here anymore.

    Sorry Tony, you seem to be an OK guy, but a lot has to be said about your followers, they seem to love the smell of their own farts to much to allow others to voice their opinion.

    Later on ladies.

  • Carim

    For those who (don’t) watch golf, Europe just won the Ryder Cup. The players will get a lot of attention, but the mastermind behind it was the captain, Paul McGinley – a good golfer, but one of the unheralded names in the sport. A lot of people now feel he’s modernised the approach to captaincy. The reason I’m talking about him is his meticulous approach to the job. In the last two years, he’s left no stone unturned – spending time with his players as a group and individually, learning their strengths and weaknesses, formulating a plan to win and getting outside help and inspiration where needed. Every speech, every minute together tailored toward that goal – retaining the Ryder Cup. Result? They did so emphatically! Europe had some very good players, but so did the US. In fact, each side had four players apiece in the top 10. So the advantage was not quite in the team make-up, but in the preparation, planning and execution. USA’s captain, Tom Watson, is a golf great and a more decorated player than Paul. But his ideas were apparently not the best fit for his players, and he did not feel the need to accommodate other ideas. The point I’m making is that, based on the golfing mind of the US captain and the quality of their players, they should’ve won. But complacency and lack of preparation cost them. CB and DM aside, we have good enough players at AFC to be doing much better than we are. BUT the manager is not doing all he can nor leaving any stone unturned to give us every chance for success. Result? We’re probably 4-6 points worse off, and go into a game which fans dare not dream of even leaving with a point, let alone all three. Ozil on the left, leaving Sánchez out of a derby, playing slow Mertesacker in a high defensive line, reactive subs… Wenger wants success, no doubt, but are these the actions of a manager who is busting his b@lls to seize success?

  • Tasos

    @Carim

    Its a fair enough analogy but allow Me to further the comparison a little more.

    Lets say an Arab state funded golfing association turned up at the Ryder Cup and bought all the top, top players. Allowing them to acquire the best team whilst also weakening their opponents.

    What happens to your captain Paul McGinley if he’s bereft of say, Rory Mcilroy and one or two other top players because the Arab state team purchased them.

    Is MR Mcginley still a top captain or should we all ask for his head because he failed to win?

  • Anyone slagging my Arsène off is a wanker. None of you nasty people know what true love is, but me and Arsene (or my little french buttercup) have real love. I know he loves me, and I live him. Especially when he wears those speedos. ….mmmmm

  • db10

    Arabs and Russians cant buy ALL the players FFS!! when are we going to stop trotting out that line?!?!!

  • @Tasos

    You tell him. Bully boys will never drive out the messiah

  • @Db10

    That’s it. You’re off mine and wenger’s wedding list invites. Sorry

  • bjtgooner

    @Tasos

    Good point – but there is no point trying to debate with the trolls, they are only interested in trying to throw muck rather than debate.

    Today’s group of AAAA trolls appear a particularly organized and equally despicable bunch – I am not surprised that a bunch of such scum has appeared – attacks by individuals or by an individual and a slimy sympathizer have self ridiculed in the past.

    The bin is the appropriate place for today’s AAAA tossers.

  • Tasos

    Thanks but no thanks iwantwenegersbabies.

  • Tasos

    bjtgooner

    Yep. I know I shouldn’t encourage them.

  • WalterBroeckx

    N5,
    please call spade a spade.

    And talking about insults: we don’t publish the real insulting comments if people start the name calling from the first comment they try to put on the site.
    But believe me each day we get called all sorts of names by people you are defending. I have been told a few years ago that next time I come over to the Emirates he would beat me on my skull with a baseball bat.

    Insults and ‘dead’ threats have been my part. In a way it is amazing I still keep it the way I keep it.

    And the new boys seem to know each other already from before… LOL

  • db10

    Walter – The threats of violence is terrible and completely uncalled for. It is just football end of the day. That isnt on. No one should have to hear that.

  • Jamie

    @Tasos. Great point. But what if his reaction to that was to sign Richard sterne from SA and play him out of position, say, make him a caddie ?

  • Jamie

    Would he still be a great captain?

  • bjtgooner

    Jamie

    In trying to be clever you are showing yourself as an asshole.

  • Tasos

    @Jamie

    I was generalizing maybe a little too much but I do take your point.

    The crux of the point I wanted to make is that everything is not always black and white, right or wrong. There is a middle ground.

    It is possible that Paul McGinley could’ve lost the Ryder Cup but that doesn’t detract from him being a top captain. Winning is not the only barometer to decipher a persons true qualities.

    BTW Jamie

    Signing Richard Sterne and making him a caddie?
    Not even AVB would be capable of such stupidity. LOL

  • Josif

    @Walter – http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/arsene-wenger-arsenal-need-a-physical-presence-like-vieira-or-petit-bein-sports/

    @Kenneth – check articles when we win and UA writes more about AAAs instead of our victory or if we lose and focus turns to AAAs instead of making a cold-blooded analysis based on the facts, you can read a Soviet Union-like article.

    Speaking of current state of Arsenal, I think people should try to put their personal feelings aside a bit and try to do a deep cold-blooded analysis.

    Positive things (league):

    1.Arsenal have been on an unbeaten streak in the league – eleven matches without a defeat, seven victories, four draws. That’s 38 games (= a whole league season) short of our longest streak under Wenger, to be honest, but who knows (touch wood).

    2.In five out of eleven matches we have managed to make a come-back (West Ham, Crystal Palace, Everton, Manchester City, Spuds).

    3.We have scored at least one goal in every game during the streak.

    4.We have been in Top 4 at the end of the league last term and right now, we had spent more weeks at the top of the table than any other club in the league and almost as much as all the other clubs COMBINED.

    5.We have been unbeaten at home for 21 matches in a row – a solid foundation for making Emirates our fortress for once. Our last opponent that celebrated a victory at Emirates was Anthony Taylor.

    6.We have managed to stay unbeaten at Goodison Park – the venue of our last league defeat in April – this term and against Leicester away – where Manchester United have already left their scalps.

    7.We have scored a lot of goals in the second half, especially in the last 20 minutes. That says a lot about psychological strength of the team and never-die-attitude (Alexis Sánchez is a personification of that attitude). If I’m right, that might be a sign of our good physical condition – when you are not in a good physical shape, your concentration drops. We have looked focused in most of our games’ ending.

    8.We still have loads of goals in the reserve – Theo hasn’t returned yet, Giroud is out until The New Year, Podolski hasn’t found his shooting boots yet, Cazorla can score with both feet (not at the same time obviously) and Campbell is yet to show how good he can be.

    Negatives:

    1.After finishing the last term with four consecutive victories without conceding, we have conceded at least one goal in five out of six league matches this term.

    2.We have drawn four games so far including corresponding fixtures from last term (swap Leicester with any of relegated clubs and Spuds).

    3.We have conceded too many goals after set-pieces or via headers. That was the main problem during preseason but it seems not enough has been done to prevent it. Although, here is a food for thought – Giroud’s absence hits us more in the defence than in the attack.

    4.We have already failed to keep the lead in two occasions (Leicester, Manchester Oilers). It was one of our main strengths in the last two seasons (only four points spilled in 2012-13 after taking the lead and nine points last term).

    5.Wojciech Szczesny was our unsung hero last term – people had often took his magnificent saves against Fulham, Cardiff, Spuds…for granted – but this term he hasn’t been on his usual level.

    6.We haven’t lost a single game and yet we are six points behind London Oilers before visit to Stamford Bridge.

    7.Arsene Wenger has special feelings for Champions’ League – that might make him rotate more in the league, especially given that Champions’ League offers less opportunities to make up for lost points.

    Champions’ League (positives):

    1.We were awful at Signal Iduna Park and yet we could have easily won the game had Welbeck used one of his chances at 0:0.

    2.We have much easier group than we had had last term.

    3.We have the second longest streak of participation – 17 in a row is just one less than Real Madrid have and we didn’t have to pay billions for Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema and Modrić to make it happen.

    4.Galatasaray didn’t win against Anderlecht at home so six points for us in back-to-back matches against the Belgians will probably be enough for our progress to the Knockout Stage, provided that we beat Galatasaray tomorrow.

    5.Borussia look even worse in terms of injury crisis than we do.

    6.Anderlecht were usually James Bond’s friends in Champions’ League – they were Agents 006 (zero victories, zero draws, six defeats) in two occasions (if I remember well).

    Champions’ League (negatives):

    1.We lost to Borussia with a two-goal-margin – if head-to-head makes a difference between the first and second spot in the group, it might be a tall order for us in the reverse fixture.

    2.Our last game in the group stage is in Istanbul. I don’t like it and I’d be thrilled if that match turns out to be a dead rubber.

    3.We will probably get the strongest opponents in the First Knockout Stage, just like we had drawn Barcelona, Milan and Bayern (twice) respectively in the last four occasions. I have a theory that Wenger made a pact with The Devil the last time we progressed to quarterfinals so Bendtner outscored Falcao in their direct clash (we won against Porto 5:0 with Nic scoring a hat-trick).

  • WalterBroeckx

    Thank you Josif,

    But the question is was Vieira a defensive midfielder?

    Petit was. And Gilberto was. But not Vieira. He was a box to box midfielder.

    Gilberto probably was the best defensive midfielder we had and he wasn’t exactly the “beast type”

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Successful people build each other up. They motivate , inspire and push each other .
    Unsuccessful people just hate , blame and complain .

  • Jamie

    @Tasos,

    Very true. I am also not one to be dragged into the AKB/AAA debate. I like to think that I sit n the fence, leaning towards the Wenger Outs.
    I do agree though that there’s a lotta grey between right and wrong, and I’m not one of the Idiots hoping to replace Wenger with Moyes e.t.c. Wenger’s not perfect, he makes mistakes like we all do. All I’m debating for is the right to question the decisions that look awfully off.

  • db10

    brickfield – what a shitty little comment you just made. So basically, everyone pro arsene is successful and every not-so pro arsene is not successful.

    absolute cack of the highest order

    i assume you are one of those successful ones then eh

    dear me, seen it all now

  • Brickfields Gunners

    After the AAAA , sorry clowns left UA , they got their just deserts . The strange thing that the paramedics couldn’t find a single brain amongst them .
    But then the AKBs already know this !

    http://www.swensonfunnies.com/dailies-best-of/2007-feb-1-clown-accident-cartoon.gif

  • Josif

    @Walter – I agree, people tend to mix up those two and I don’t blame them because Vieira was pretty much the most complete midfielder that has ever played in the Premiership. He was a DM, a CM and an AM in the same person. In a way, Vieira is the reason why people say Alex Song was a defensive midfielder at Arsenal as they look at every tall midfielder who dives into tackles as a DM. Your article about Arteta-Song duo and their duties was a spot on. Perhaps an analysis of Arteta-Ramsey connection last term would make things clear about today’s Arsenal (how on Earth did Arteta manage to earn a MoTM for his performance against Liverpool at Emirates when Ramsey played next to him and fail to impress against the same rivals in the reverse fixture?).

    The thing is, whatever Arsenal fans (and football fans in general) think of Wenger or any other person from the world of football, they should check the facts first.

    Here is an example that UA might like:

    how many times have we read about Yaya Toure’s magnificent goal-scoring record in the last 14 months? About a month ago, I wrote an article in which I compared Toure’s statistics with Aaron Ramsey’s in the period between the beginning of 2013-14 and the opening fixtures of 2014-15.

    Ramsey’s statistics says: 18 goals (no penalties) in 36 matches. No red cards that he should have got in the same period.

    Yaya Toure’s stats: 24 goals (six penalties) in 53 matches. In two occasions he should have been sent off (Arsenal and Norwich respectively – once for a brutal foul on Giroud and once for the elbow aimed at Norwich player which would have meant – if I’m correct – seven games of suspension in total).

    So, Ramsey had scored 0.5 goals per game while Toure had scored 0.45 during the same period and needed 17 games more than Ramsey to score the same number of goals from the open play and free-kicks.

  • WalterBroeckx

    db10,
    but it is what I got from people like you who love the moaning and groaning on Le Grove. Luckily it ended with words but what if one day one goes further? And that just because I don’t want to moan about Wenger and shout that he should be sacked?

    So believe me, my way of reacting to some things is very, very mild

  • Tasos

    @Jamie

    “All I’m debating for is the right to question the decisions that look awfully off”

    And I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact I endorse it.

    I can’t talk for others on here but I’m willing to assume that many will concur. Debate is healthy.

    Anyhow I’ve already spent far too much time on here today. Got to go

  • Brickfields Gunners

    What one perceives or gleans from any statement is quite often directly proportional to the sum of his upbringing , experiences and knowledge .

    Brickfields Gunners .
    30/9/2014

  • bjtgooner

    Jamie

    If you sit on a fence you are liable to get a splinter in the ass!

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Fell in love with the Arsenal – 1971
    Finally qualified as a doctor -1984
    Fell in love in 1985 ,married in 1991
    Still in love with the Arsenal and still a practicing doctor and still very much married !
    Damn how things don’t change all that much when you’re in love !
    But then again , we are often referred to as ‘keepers ‘ !

  • bjtgooner

    @Brickfields

    Sounds pretty good to me!

  • I suggest we all have a wankathon to show our support for wenger? He’ll maybe we could tie a few ‘doomers or A a a ‘ s down and shoot our loads in their faces…. too much?

  • db10

    Walter – I’ve tried for a few years to cut you some slack. Even when I have posted a comment in your defence as to the horrible threats you get, you still choose to have a dig at me. It says a lot about you. I for one would not like to be in your company. I suspect you are one of those individuals who is friendly with everyone as long as everyone bows to you and is a total sycophant. However shoudl anyone go against your wisdom then you’ll turn on them swiftly. Thats a really nasty trait to have.

  • Pete

    Jamie – If you tend towards Wenger out I don’t think you are sitting on the fence. I am virtually certain that the median Arsenal fan (i.e. halfway between Wenger is god and Wenger should be gone right now) tends towards Wenger should stay.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Meanwhile at AAAA HQ , they prepare to send in the …
    http://comicsidontunderstand.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/undercover.png

  • Jamie

    @bjtgooner

    I have intentionally refrained from directing any comments at you, you obviously have a problem with my having an opinion. I have not verbally abused anyone or launched any personal attacks.

    And how have I made myself an asshole by making a simple analogy?

    If you have a problem with my posts, kindly ignore them!

  • Jamie

    Pete,

    True, very true. Until a few weeks ago, I believed in wenger. Right now, I still want him to see out his contract and be very successful with us. But as of now every decision he makes belies his reputation, I mean he managed the Invincibles and then proceeds to play Ozil on the left??
    Even when he has a stormer in his preferred #10 role, Wenger then proceeds to play him wide again the very next game. Simply unacceptable

  • bjtgooner

    Jamie

    I have no problem with you having an opinion. I do have a problem with you coming onto a pro Wenger website, pretending to be neutral but at the same time being a sarky asshole towards another contributor.

    If your “simple” analogy is buck stupid then you are making an asshole of yourself.

  • Josif

    @Jamie – I think that Özil-on-the-left issue has been a result of the fact we don’t have a natural left winger. When Alexis signed, I was convinced he would fix our left side of the defence (as I’ve mentioned before, our big defeats last season came via our left side of the defence) by making a pressure on the opponents’ full-backs and relieving Gibbs or Nacho of the opponents’ pressure. However, it seems Alexis was brought to play either as a right winger (though Wenger has mentioned that he can play on either flank) or as a mobile central forward. If Giroud was fit, perhaps we would have seen Welbeck on the left wing with more defensive duties. Personally, I’d like to see Chamberlain/Campbell and Alexis on the wings with Welbeck as our striker and Özil as our No. 10 because he is the best No. 10 in the world. That set-up would have stunning technique, immense work-rate and unbelievable pace.

  • Andrew

    i ask myself the simple question.who turned me wanting wenger out now,me or his actions or lack of them in various circumstances.the answer is of course in the question.none of us set out to just wanting him out as if it was some game or venture.i’ll express my views in shorts bursts of i’m getting sick and tired of the inept defending and performances against the big sides.in that i’m getting tired of being beaten to a pulp in front of a watching world that has made us a laughing stock at times.why does wenger not just play players in their best position so that we get some continuity in our style and set up of play.in that again,why change formations all of the time when the team is trying to get that consistency of trying to win games by sticking to a system that best suits them.why does a great club like ours look short in terms of being able to defend set pieces while on the other hand get in great positions in wide areas but cannot cross a ball to save their lives.why is our game management both on and off the pitch look amateurish compared to clubs we should be competing against.so in truth i haven’t turned my back on wenger.he’s turned his back on me and the rest of us.

  • db10

    I shall leave you all with one thought…

    Kim Kallstrom

  • proudkev

    I am not at all surprised that a few of the hardcore LeGrove doomers have descended onto Untold.

    If you read their blog, the vast majority genuinely believe they know best. Anyone that dares to disagree is rounded on, called names and abused. They have a rabid hatred of Mr. Wenger and this blog and dissenters are often told to “f off and go to Untold”.

    They are so arrogant that they refuse to accept any fan could have an opposite view of their own. This arrogance plays itself out in their anti-Wenger rhetoric where they believe they are football experts and know better than a man so well regarded and respected in the game. You have seen in their comments that they take everything printed in the press as fact, as long as it meets their own opinion of course. The Carvalho comments are bizarre, how do they know we pulled out at the last minute over money? They don’t but the story is a good one so they use it. And repeat it. And recycle it. And repost it.

    Two weeks ago the LeGrove owner, Pedro, was caught changing Wengers comments about the signing of Welbeck. He actually took Wengers comments and changed them to say something else, just so he could get more clicks from the like minded.That is about as underhand as you can get but that is how desperate they are to create evidence to support their agenda. So desperate they have to change the Managers own words. Shocking.

    This is a manager that has delivered years of success and helped build us into the club we are today. We built a stadium with our own money, while Chelsea and Man City built their teams with somebody elses.

    Look, it is fairly simple. Life is about opinions. Some people support the manager and others don’t. Fair enough.

    So why go to a blog that does not represent your views, unless you want a row or feel the need to spend some time in the sunny part of Arsenal FC. Lets face it, there is only so much moaning a person can take. Therefore, I guess they have taken a small holiday to visit sunnier climbs, away from the overcast and miserable weather of Le Miserables. Unfortunately, they forgot to leave the rain clouds behind and forced us off the beaches and into their world of gloom.Seriously, those guys really do need to lighten up.

    I love my football. I love supporting Arsenal FC. This great club has given me some of the greatest times in my life and I am never going to desert them. I am Arsenal ’til I die, I am not one of those fair weather fans that only sings when we are winning. I pity fans who feel the need to slag off the club, the players and the manager, they have no idea what it is like to be a true fan.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Proudkev,

    you said: “Two weeks ago the LeGrove owner, Pedro, was caught changing Wengers comments about the signing of Welbeck. He actually took Wengers comments and changed them to say something else, just so he could get more clicks from the like minded.”

    Well that is nothing new. I have suffered from the same thing. He or that Geoff fellow (if he is still around) changed a comment I made in which I just asked to not call Fabregas Fibergras as he was always injured as they called it. I said that it wasn’t our job to do name calling of our own players. One of them changed my comment to make me look like a fool. And after changing it I got a lot of abuse and when I confronted them with the question why he had changed my comment I got even more abuse and got banned.

    So Le Grove changing comments is just their way of working.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Also a nice thing for our friends from Le Grove who came to us the last days to think about. And believe me we have had a few people come on here after having the same experience.
    That is your natural habitat. Not really a nice thing isn’t it?

  • @Revvin kevin ( proud kev)

    Well thank fuck your a real supporter eh. Sent down to us from God to tell us how to be real fans. 3 cheers for le senile cunt hip hip….

  • @Walter

    Changed your comment to make you look a fool. Trust me my son, you do a damn good job at making yourself look a cunt.

  • Proudkev

    To the fan called iwantwengersbabies. What is the @Revvin kevin thing meant to mean please? I do not have.a twitter account so I havnt a clue what that means but I can only assume it is an insult? Also, why do you go onto a public blog and swear? You obviously have issues.

  • bjtgooner

    @Walter/Tony
    I am not sure if the self indulgent foul mouthed creep named “iwantwengersbabies” is from Le Groan or the asylum (not much difference really), but he is incapable of contributing anything other than irrelevant crude comments to the site.

    Please bin him.

  • bjtgooner

    ….contributing nothing…..

  • WalterBroeckx

    don’t worry bjtgooner he was our old pal Joe. 🙂 banned him and his other nickname.

    I think I might be on the look out for people who post under multiple names in the next hours

  • Proudkev

    Kids like iwantwengersbabies just show how poor the standards of education have dropped. Creating such a silly blog name proves how immature he is. The fact he even thinks it is big to swear on a blog where women and children may frequent speaks plenty. You will notice these types never have the guts to use their real names when abusing people they know they will never meet.

    An educated guess but he seems the immature sort that would go back to LeGrove to tell all his ‘mates’ what a clever boy he has been on Untold. An attention seeker with low esteem. It is a shame we have idiots like him associated with our club but it’s not the clubs fault, society is to blame and of course his parents.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Oh and wow what do I find…. two persons using multiple names to congratulate themselves and talk to themselves and agreeing with each other……The same old tricks as in the past…

    I think we will get rid of a few names in the next minutes…. 🙂

    Apologies to the regular Untold readers that I didn’t find the time to check this earlier.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Someone claiming to be a first poster in his comment and then I see he posted earlier under another mail address…. funny ain’t it… 🙂

  • Mandy Dodd

    Le grove….didn’t most of them want Owen Coyle to replace wenger after Myles Palmer aired that very suggestion?
    Says it all really. Not to be taken seriously most of that lot.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Seems like a pretty sorry bunch Walter…..a sorry lot….with a lot of time on their hands. I would recommend they get a hobby…or perhaps join a dating agency?

  • Mandy Dodd

    We have Atkinson against Chelsea.
    I have just fallen off my chair in surprise.

  • Josif

    Atkinson? I’d say he can’t do it worse than he did to us last term at Etihad but I’d say it’s exactly what he is going to do.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Even Fergie was wary of a combination of Atkinson and Chelsea. And he is a man who knows what goes on.
    Think his record for refereeing Chelsea is something like 27 games, 22 wins, four draws and a loss…..but stand to be corrected.
    The calciopoli appears to be alive and well in the EPL
    If we repeat out kamikaze antics at the bridge from last season, this ref will not be needed, but have a feeling he will be there to do us if we get anywhere near Chelsea.

  • Proudkev

    Mandy, when you look at the regions where the referees come from, it is pretty obvious why we don’t get any breaks. They are all from Northern towns and cities, the highest percentage from Manchester and Yorkshire:

    Anthony Taylor – Greater Manchester
    Lee Mason – Greater Manchester
    Neil Swarbrick – Lancashire
    Chris Foy – Lancashire

    Mike Dean – Cheshire
    Mike Jones – Cheshire

    Martin Atkinson – Yorkshire
    Craig Pawson – Yorkshire
    Howard Webb – Yorkshire (Technical Director)
    Mike Riley -Yorkshire (Head of referees)

    Mark Clattenburg – County Durham
    Michael Oliver – Northumberland
    Johnathan Moss – Sunderland

    Kevin Friend – Leicestershire
    Andre Mariner – West Midlands
    Phil Dowd – Stoke, Staffordshire

    Lee Probart – Wiltshire
    Roger East – Wiltshire

    Does it mean anything? Perhaps not but it does seem very unbalanced.

    * I apologise for any I may have missed.

  • Josif

    The thing with the refereeing in EPL has a lot of important points that need an Eliott-Ness-like person to solve.

    1.Mertesacker’s goal or “goal” against Spuds. If the ball really crossed the line after Lloris saved the initial header, then two things could’ve happened:

    a) the technology signalized an equalizer to Oliver and he either didn’t hear it or didn’t want to hear it or

    b) the technology didn’t signalize a goal which means it’s worth bollocks.

    2.Racism. Not the racism in terms of players’ race but in a way of football that is allowed by the referees. That’s why Tony Pulis’ Stoke were never relegated or lost a game for having less players than it’s needed to complete a game due to red cards for their rugby-tackles. That’s where Arsenal and Arsene Wenger are the biggest victims – after we had been accused for red cards of Keown, Adams, Vieira etc. for years, Arsenal have played the cleanest football in the last seven or eight years – a light-weighted team with plenty of talent, technique and pace.

    3.Referees have all the power. Manchester United hadn’t got a red card prior to Rafael’s red card against Chelsea for over 500 days. The Brazilian got a red card at the end of 2012-13 after United had secured the last title for Red Nose. It’s a fine symbolic that Howard Webb was the one that issued that red card. Then, Manchester City had a lot of support from the referees last term (Atkinson massacred us like Riley in The 50th game) and eventually won the title. Liverpool and their most over-rated captain of all times got million penalties including three at Old Trafford in one match (I can recall of two penalties for Arsenal at Old Trafford during whole Arsene Wenger’s spell) so they climbed to second spot. Chelsea got Mike Dean at the Emirates to save Mikel from a red card and Chelsea from conceding a penalty. Remember, at the end they had three points more than we did.

    Interesting thing happened in Croatia: Hajduk Split have had a lot of problems with the refereeing in Croatian league that has become a private league of Zdravko Mamić and Dinamo Zagreb. Hajduk’s president Hrvoje Maleš was wired when he approached some of the most important people in Referees’ Organization in order to negotiate a fair refereeing. Stjepan Djedović was one of the arrested and was found guilty (he admitted committing a crime in exchange for lesser punishment).

  • Proudkev

    Last season we committed suicide at Stamford bridge and did the same at Anfiled. We need to take a leaf out of that bore Mourinho and get players behind the ball when playing away to our rivals and not push our full backs on.

    We definitely don’t want a dodgy referee leaving us with ten men because he shows less leniency towards our tackles than theirs.

    Be great to go there and win.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Agree on both of your last points Kev. A bit of a northern mafia going on there with the refs…..maybe Riley likes good northern men. But you are right we will get no favours whatsoever from Atkinson in this game, he is to Chelsea what Webb was to Utd, and Dean was to Arry, what sonny was to Cher…..until the latter couple got an acrimonious divorce.. at least. Seems we have often had these refs when we play their teams since Riley came along. They did that sort of thing in Italy once as well.
    And yes, we should park the bus for a time this weekend. We have to be a lot more streetwise in these games, previous tactics against the big boys away have not worked in recent years so time for a change.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Sounds like someone should copy the tactics in outing the Croatian refs Josif…….but sadly, think the corruption here is too deep seated to be exposed easily.

  • Proudkev

    I am a massive Wenger fan but I wish he would take a more pragmatic approach when we are playing away against our rivals. This idea that we can just go out there and out football other teams is misplaced. Most teams when they play us at the Emirates, sit with ten men behind the ball and sit deep. Chelsea do it every season. Keep a clean sheet and try to nick one later on when the game will inevitably stretch. We need to start adopting these tactics from time to time, especially now we have this pace in the team. I hate losing to Chelsea as I really dislike that club, their manager,their owner and everything they stand for.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Walter – not really surprised that many of the clowns on here yesterday had multiple posted from the same addresses .
    Like someone mentioned much earlier , their tone and style ( using this term very loosely !) is like a ‘fingerprint ‘ and very easy to detect .
    Just ignore them and NEVER feed the trolls !
    Having said that , could someone come up with a ‘boobytrap’ to burn them at the gates ? Or an infective monster malware which they would then ‘convey’ to the mothership and bring that down too !
    Something up their arses , along these lines…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1NK6zOtg8M&index=8&list=PLD4F9CC6090642DEB

  • proudkev

    I visit all the Arsenal blogs now and then as it gives you a greater perspective of how fans feel. I only join the commentary on positively arsenal and untold because they closely match my own feelings. This notion that one should join a blog to be argumentative and abuse other fans is quite frankly the territory of a certain type of personality. Not a pleasant one. The last thing I would consider to be fun is joining an online community to have an argument and view opinions alien to my own. The fact that a few come onto Untold from LeGrove just to abuse other fans, rdemonstrates the type of people they are. Argumentative and opinionated. They clearly believe their opinion is the only one that matters and that everything the day is correct, despite being a secular view. They do appear quite irrational.

  • Sally Pally

    I do not believe that it is an us and them scenario. It is two different types of ‘mothership’, one with a higher average age and more positivity and patience (two qualities that come with age) and the other with more juvenile qualities containing lots of randy, self-obsessed and rude young men, but many of whom will grow up to be fine people. The young are also impatient and some of these lost people desperately need the tough love of a big woman, I feel. I suspect that some of them will jump ship to greener pastures as they grow up and smell the roses. I definitely got the sense on one such mothership that some were desperate for a bit of positivity but maybe they didn’t even realise it and had found somewhere that they belonged – having to tow the compulsory negative line. By disagreeing with the overwhelming sense of despair, they would get ridiculed, which to these young men is a terrible thing as they are desperately trying to find an identity. Let them through – give them a chance and if they haven’t yet learned manners then send them packing. There are one or two real nasties about as well, and they show their true colours sooner or later. But that behaviour doesn’t get them anywhere in the long run and they need serious help. What type is at the helm of the most destructive of those motherships? The themes of the posts and type of comment that are encouraged there give the captain away. This is not the type of person that anyone would want to know in real life, which is why he can exist and have influence only in the false and highly controlled environment of cyberspace, in the environment that reflects the negativity of his own darkness and inner turmoil – that of despair, blame and hatred, pointing the finger that should be pointing inward to a suitable target who represents all the qualities that he himself does not have. Who’s to say that this person won’t see the light one day and we all hope so and wish him every success in that. In the meantime, some impressionable young people feel they belong there for a while. People with deeper problems or deeper negativity stay longer because they have the kind of mentality that the site reflects and so they rise up the ranks of acceptance. Such a ship is going to self-destruct without the need for intervention. We should try and offer help to those who get influenced by such people. It is difficult to help them out when they have been programmed to use the type of language and juvenile approach that they have become accustomed to in another mothership. Do you allow them a bit of leeway to see how they respond or do you send them packing instantly, like one or two here would maybe do. Who am I to say? Society works with both approaches. Forgive me for my long post but I hope that it provides some food for thought. It seems to me that we are dealing with 99% Arsenal supporters and a very few real nasties, as I said, so most of us have at least that one very important thing in common.

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Smart post Sally Pally.Im enjoying all your posts-cheers!
    COYG! Aha and Amen!

  • proudkev

    Sally Pally very eloquently put. It is not a them and us. I have had civil and great debates with people who have a different opinion to my own without any need to be rude or abusive. This is simply about the poor way some people choose to behave.

    Bad behaviour is often a consequence of how you have been bought up or the circle you mix with. Football is a very emotive and passionate subject and we all have the right to our own opinions and to be respected for those. However, as iwanttohavewengersbabies has demonstrated, there are a small number of people who are happy to make themselves look silly and who clearly have no respect for anyone. Coming onto a public blog to call people disgusting names and post sarcastic comments about masterbation proves he does not even respect himself, let alone other people. Unfortunately, this is a social issue and not an Arsenal one. There are good and bad in all walks of life and I actually pity people like him who think behaving so poorly is something to be proud of.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Some fine quotes ans sayings of wisdom and aging .From..
    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/age

    ” Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.”
    ― Alfred Tennyson