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West Ham – Arsenal: not 1- 2 for the faint hearted

By Walter Broeckx

To start this match at the home ground of the team that sat in front of us at the start of this match we had Szczesny, Debuchy, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Monreal, Flamini, Coquelin, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Cazorla, Alexis, Welbeck. On the beach sat  Ospina, Gibbs, Chambers, Campbell, Walcott, Podolski, Akpom.

So Koscielny back in the starting line up and I think with the fact we faced Carroll a wise choice. Monreal at left back to stop crosses as much as possible. We saw a first start for Coquelin in the PL this season in midfield. And also Oxlade-Chamberlain came in after his injury. Giroud of course was suspended and the other drop outs were Gibbs and Rosicky. So some rotation but not that much.

The opening minutes were for West Ham. And it seemed that Song opened the score when he hit a long distance shot after a corner was cleared. I was watching a Danish stream (could have been Swedish, Norwegian or Finnish also to be honest) so I couldn’t understand a word they said. But suddenly the 1-0 was removed and the score was back to 0-0 as the assistant had raised his flag for offside. One of the WH players coming back and moving and maybe even touching the ball before it went in.

I must admit the stream was too blurry to judge if he really touched the ball or not but he certainly attempted to divert the ball and in that case the call of offside was correct.

West Ham stayed on top for much of the first half. Arsenal defended in numbers and most players working their socks off. Not that West Ham created that much in fact as it was more pumping balls in the direction of Carroll and hoping something would come from the second ball. But Arsenal was sharp on the second ball. Carroll receiving a yellow card for using his arm a bit too much against the face of Debuchy.

Gradually Arsenal improved but they also couldn’t really come to clear cut chances.  But suddenly Arsenal turned up a gear and burst in to live. Welbeck and Cazorla combining and running through the middle of the West Ham defensive line. Cazorla went past Reid who clearly brought him down as he raised his foot so high that it caught Cazoral knee high. A 100% penalty and after some consideration the ref pointed to the spot.

The old football rule that the fouled player should not take the penalty himself doesn’t count for Cazorla. He send the keeper the wrong way and Arsenal was 0-1 in front.

That was a big blow for West Ham and before they realised what had happened Arsenal scored again. This time a combination on the right hand side between Oxlade-Chamberlain and Debuchy freed up Oxlade-Chamberlain on the right. His low cross was put over the line by Welbeck. 0-2 at half time.

West Ham came at us again at the start of the second half. Arsenal tried to use the space but couldn’t really get a counter going with some end product. West Ham pressure leading to some corners and some high balls and Kouyate headed a cross in from the head of Debuchy. I wonder if the deflection didn’t take it in, not that I blame him for that of course.  1-2 after 52 minutes.

Arsenal replied with a hard shot from Cazorla but the WH keeper could save it and from the resulting corner Debuchy headed over. West Ham using the cross as much as you can tactics aimed at the big guys up front and a few nearby misses on those crosses.

West Ham pressing and then Welbeck recovered a ball just on the own half and ran towards the West Ham goal but his shot was put wide by the keeper.  Not really much pretty football during this period. But the speed with saw the ball moving from left to right was high. With only 48 hours between matches it was also a question on who would end up with an empty tank.

A great cross from Alexis and a great header from Oxlade-Chamberlain but the West Ham keeper with a great reaction save to deny Oxlade-Chamberlain a goal.  Another chance minutes later when Alexis found a bit of space but again the keeper stopping the effort.  And seconds later Welbeck again with a chance but his shot went well over. 3 big, big chances for Arsenal in the space of a few minutes.

And then again a great shot from Cazorla but again the WH keeper stopped the goal bound effort and then Cazorla fired the rebound over. We should have wrapped up the match by now.

With some 7 minutes to go Wenger took of Welbeck and brought on Gibbs.  West Ham throwing ball forward but Oxlade-Chamberlain shooting wide on the break then brought down on the next counter but the ref gave nothing.  Foul was outside the penalty area.

In the last minute of normal time Oxlade-Chambarlain was taken off and Chambers came on.  5 minutes of extra time?? Where did that came from????

West Ham throwing everything forward and the ref blowing every contact as a foul against Arsenal. But the Arsenal players fought bravely and could hold on to the lead. An important win with all the other teams in the top 5 drawing their games.

This win takes us over West Ham and we now are level on points with Southampton who is in 4th place. And who we will meet next year in our first match of the year.

A great and hard fought win.

 

134 comments to West Ham – Arsenal: not 1- 2 for the faint hearted

  • para

    Were the only team that won today. Hope this is a new trend.

  • Will

    Put this on the other entry but works here as well

    Phew, that was a good old fashioned match. Have to say well done to the West Ham fans who made it a bear pit. Wenger needs to sign some warriors for this team, we are too soft, easily knocked off the ball, lightweight in the air and extremely poor for second ball. Yes, we have some lovely players who can knock it around but, when the boots are flying and the ball is bouncing, we usually come off second best.

  • dan

    we won, oh yes.

  • TommieGun

    YES B@$%@!!$ !!!!

    Fuck, not for the feint hearted, say that again Walter.

    A great win, a great result in a match-day where a lot of other teams dropped points. Amazing!

    We started out slowly but regained ourselves, Santi is definetly the man. Lacking almost all of our creative players due to injury, he takes it on himself, game after game, to inspire.

    Note 1.0: he never starts out brightly – but as soon as he assumes control, he is there.

    Note 2.0 – WILL YOU F****rs (yes I’m talking to our players!!! YES! Who are about to give me a heart attack every match) start clearing out balls with some venom?! Why is it that in those last 5 minutes of each game, they try to dribble the ball out of defence, controlling it on the chest and whatnot?! Why can’t they send it to fuckin orbit?! JEEEEEZZZZ this is unhealthy for me…

    But now seriously a great deserved win on one of our direct rivals, away. Can’t be happier than this.

    COYG!

  • Usama

    My friend Will, its not about being soft or hard, its that the referees are allowing the opposition the freedom to tackle/push/elbow rashly against us in every match. And when try to compete even in the slightest of rash manner we get penalized severely.

  • TommieGun

    Another note –

    This game was won because we stuck out a leg each time, put in a shoulder, put in the bodies, gritted and snarled and essentially made Westham’s life quite miserable whenever they had the ball (except for the last 10 minutes or so when we had 2 chances to get the third one but instead almost got one against us).

    To me that means almost everything. And a big shout out to Coquelin (who got booked in the end, of course) for not stopping fighting.

  • Will

    No Usama, the ref’s can’t be blamed for everything. We have very few “warriors” who stick the boot on when the ball is bouncing.

  • porter

    Schneiderlin misses the Southampton match . Today there was a lot of collective spirit but the 5 minutes that Swarbrick gave came from the substitutions and the amount of time The Ox and Welbeck took to go off. You could tell from the crowd reaction and the fact that he followed The Ox to the touchline that he was adding time just for that.

  • bjtgooner

    Excellent write up Walter – and so fast!!

    A very good away win today against the Hammers who have been in top form this season. It was interesting to see Coquelin starting the match & he did rather well.

    We had some good chances to put the match away & unfortunately did not manage to do so – but overall a very good performance from a much depleted team. Well done guys!

  • John Abraham

    Hey guys, come on. Can’t we ever appreciate a good outing without reverting to our usual ”we are too soft or many of our players are sissy” routine? That was a hard fought victory against a strong team, at least, so far this season. We are in 4th place! Beat Southampton on New Year’s day and we are in 3rd with 17 games remaining. I say WELL DONE BOYS AND UP THE ARSENAL!!!

  • Gord

    Newcastle-Everton currently tied, and Liverpool-Swansea is tomorrow. But,

    Chelsea 27 46
    ManC 24 43
    ManU 14 37
    South 17 33
    Ars 11 33
    WHU 7 31
    Tott 0 31
    Swan 4 28 **
    Liv -2 25 **
    Stoke -2 25
    New -7 23 *
    Ever -1 21 *
    AV -11 20
    Sund -11 19
    QPR -13 18
    WBrom -10 17
    Hull -7 16
    CP -10 16
    Burn -15 15
    Lei -14 13

    How to go Gunners! Someone buy Coquelin a beverage. His name kept coming up in the commentaries.

    And it is darn near impossible to find un biased commentary to read. Mirror was the best today. Goal.com sucked big time. It was sad to have the other thread end with a fight that wasn’t needed on the part of either party.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    Well done Arsenal, good points against a difficult team on their own patch. I couldn’t get a picture and listened to the game live on Arsenal Player, Arsenal friendly commentators which is always a bonus! Six points in 48 hours – nothing shabby at that. Now to Southampton and a clear fourth place on New Years Day.

    COYG

  • porter

    Actually we are 5th and only go 4th if we beat Southampton.

  • Usama

    @john
    I agree with you John it was a hard fought win and a good one too 🙂

  • Will

    BBC saying teh Song goal was a good goal. I guess it can be a new tatic to stand two players in front of the keeper and that negates the offside rule.

  • Yassin

    @TommieGun,

    Add my voice to you, I loved the way they fought. This passion, the insanity, and what the hell is wromg with Cazorla? Man of the month for sure. Monreal was a beast (compared to his length).
    In a time where all teams lost points due to their tiredness, and we playing the most physical side, with injuries, those players should be applauded for their fight and spirit.

    All that said, somehting has to be done to stop this refshite. Its disgusting game after game.

    I will send Arsenal all the bills of the doctor, they cant keep doing this. Fukin finish the damn game.

  • TommieGun

    Actually if we win @ Shampton by 2 goals and the cunts lose @ Stoke, we can be 3rd.

  • Will

    Jesus people, stop blaming the ref’s for everything.

  • TommieGun

    @ Yassin – amen, when you find a good doctor, would love a referral.

  • TommieGun

    @ Will – we are not blaming the refs for everything, jeez. We won. So we are not blaming anyone.

    BUT the ref was shite! 2 clear penalties; almost no yellow cards for very hard tackles by WHU; 5.5 minutes of ET for absolutely NO FUCKIN REASON AT ALL !!!

    What’s the problem in highlighting that?

  • Will

    What pen’s? I am not sure the ref controls the clock and sometimes, the tackles are not hard, we just don’t go in as hard as the opposition.

  • matt

    Great game! Wish i had been there. We could have scored 5 easily cant believe some papers saying west ham had a load of chances. From my reckoning they had One clear chance other than the goal when Thompson missed the volley. They were very solid but they always went wide and were predictable, arsenal controlled the middle of the park i thought and easily had the better chances. Be interesting to see what the papers would say if you switched the colours around!

  • karis

    Splendid guys, but am still worried by the team’s casual way of clearing/dilly darling with the ball from our box. Most teams now seem to know that getting the ball into our box will most likely result into a goal.

  • Gord

    The BBC is always in a big hurry to update the tables when “their” teams do well. With “their” teams not doing well, and Arsenal doing well, they will get around to it sooner or later.

    The Independent says we are heading to 4th again. The humour department at the PremierLeague, is pissed the the spuds are frustrating the title hopes of ManU.

    I don’t know what is up with GoogleNews today, it cannot find English language news articles about Arsenal. Nearly all of the articles in the last hour, are foreign language. Which would be fine if the language was FORTRAN, C, Perl, LaTeX or some other computer language I understand. But the only human language I understand is English.

    Moaninho, I hope you choke on your lack of a penalty call.

  • @will ok we are not blaming the ref we will blame you for not seeing anything the ref has done, he did his work but let a fouls be fouls that’s what we are asking for period.
    Thanks to the team, everyone fought with all his heart just wondering what happened to rosicky. So as the prof said we might still be in the mix.

  • ARSENAL 13

    Looks like Everton are going down..

  • Will

    |Come on guys, don’t turn into the exact opposite of Le Grove. Accept when our players have made mistakes are are not competing fully. Like I said, we lose to much second ball and we are not great in the air, we cannot blame the ref’s for that.

  • blacksheep63

    Have you heard Mourinho today? Claiming there is a conspiracy against Chelsea so they don’t get penalties and his players get booked for diving. You couldn’t make it up

  • Will

    Maybe that’s because his players dive? Maybe?

  • “Jesus people, stop blaming the ref’s for everything”

    YEAH!

    Why blame the referee when you could be blaming the players and calling them “soft” for taking the 3 points in one of the most difficult away grounds so far this season?

    I also noted on the previous thread that you called another poster a “cunt” for telling you to take your whinging somewhere else.

    There are 2 types of Arsenal fans: those who blame the ref for being biased or incompetent and those who blame our players and manager for everything.

  • Yassin

    Sorry will, but no

    Today our players played like men and stuck every part of their body, and I womt accept anyone saying we were not good enough. We were more than good, we played a huge physical game, after less than 48hrs rest, am sorry buy our players today were like warriors

    And the ref was a cheat and it was obvious, stop trying to shut our mouth up everytime. If that type of football game you like the british football to be (pulling and fouling), then I think the EPL is going back to that old boring ages. Please at least when you all want Arsenl to get stuck in, then let the ref give the same freedom of pushing/foulimg to our players as the other team. Go watch again our corners and theirs, how we dont cheat, and they just hold all our players so obviously. If that is football to you, then shame you domt support Rugby, you would like it

  • Will

    @Bootoomee -0 I called someone a cunt for basically saying my opinion doesn’t count.

    Well, let’s see.

    Arsenal fan since the early 70’s (born in 68)
    Regular at Highbury for over a decade before leaving London
    Father a Gooner since the 1930’s
    EVERY family member a Gooner
    Regular away fan including the Sheffield FA cup games against Liverpool.

    So how dare anyone question my opinion on MY TEAM

    Sorry if you wish to blame the ref for everything, that is after all, your right but in my opinion (born of years of supporting MY TEAM), we have become a little soft when the boots are flying. We lose too many headers and when the ball is bouncing (second ball for those who failed to understand) we hesitate allowing opposition players to nip in before us.

    Fair enough?

  • Kenneth Widmerpool

    Thanks Walter for the write up.Southampton now becomes a big game,I reckon we can do it will be tough though.
    Big news in Kölle is that Poldis going to go on loan to Inter with view to buying.I would have liked to have seen him today, he certainly enjoyed destroying them last time out.
    Onward and upward.
    COYG! Aha and Amen!

  • Will

    And the ref was a cheat and it was obvious, stop trying to shut our mouth up everytime. If that type of football game you like the british football to be (pulling and fouling), then I think the EPL is going back to that old boring ages

    Adams, Bould, Keown, Campbell, Vieira, Petit, Gilberto, Parlour, Ljungberg, Bergkamp, Henry. All winners who could do the rough stuff, care to tell me what they have that the current crop don’t have?

    It is all well and good evolving as a team but THE LEAGUE HASN’T EVOLVED. It is still the most physical league in the world and if we can’t at least match teams, we will not win the league. I am pretty sure Arsenal would win the Spanish, Italian or French leagues but they are far less physical and far more suited to our style of play.

  • TommieGun

    @ Will I know where you are coming from because I felt that this year has been a year where we didn’t want to invest any effort in making the other team’s life miserable, but like Yassin said, today was actually one of our best performances grit-wise. You could see Westham’s time on the ball – it was never organized, always trying to improvise because we stuck in a leg and scrambled with their gameplan.

    You are just (and understandbly so) out of breath due to the last 10 minutes, that’s what you remember emotionally, yes I wrote it too, somehow we failed to make simple clearences and chose to try and regain control of the ball. I am certain that if you re-watch the match you’ll see that.

  • AL

    Good win, well done. As usual the refs did all they could to help the other team. Didn’t watch first half but his second half performance wasn’t great. Hoping for three more points at Southampton. COYG!!

  • jambug

    Will

    How come our ‘softies’ get more cards per foul than those ‘toughies’ at stoke?

    Explain that.

  • Gord

    From Wenger’s interview at Arsenal.com

    > on Rosicky…

    >> I just gave him a complete recovery today. When I took him off with 10 minutes to go against QPR he had cramps in the calves and in the hamstrings, so I didn’t want to take a gamble.

  • bob mac

    Andrew Crawshaw etc

    I watched the full game live on First Row football…………..and for free!!!!!

  • Yassin

    @Will,
    what they dont have?
    that lot didnt have the bad bias against them from the ref. And when they did, they lost (game 49?)

    Please am sure this team lacks things, but please stop blaming them for everything, and stop telling us not to blame the ref, even if we lose, that was obvious cheating.

    And by the way, there are rules in football, Aesene get players who win by the rules, other teams cheats, and the ref do nothing. Xid u see how many times did Carrol ( the hard strong tall man) jump on the back of our players. They cant fight back, they are not allowed. Look how many imaginative foul did Welbeck and Sanchez get for jumping on that ball Sczcesney played from Goal Kicks. How could they try that in our penalty area? Those imaginary fouls in the last minutes? What could they do if they are not allowed? And if the Arsenal Supporters dont care to stop this, how could anybody do?

  • Gord

    Extremely large Sam(antha?) is baffled that you are not allowed to shoot the ball between the legs of an offside player to score a goal.

    Maybe if the owners of West Ham find someone to give them 100 Million pounds in exchange for 20%, they can send Extremely large Sam(antha?) to a refereeing school to learn the laws of the game.

  • jambug

    If Wenger came out with this ‘Conspiracy theory’ line that Maureen’s babbling on about, the likes of Neville, Souness and the rest would slaughter him.

    Yet, as with Fergie, anything Moureen says is treated as ‘clever’ mind games.

  • From the previous thread:

    Will @3.33pm: “Gotta hope we up our game in teh second half, we are second to pretty much every ball.”

    Will @4.12pm: “Again, we are second to every fucking ball. why are we sop slow, we hardly ever win second ball. Something in training?”

    Will @4.21pm: “We are too soft.”

    Will @4.22pm: “If West Ham get a second, we lose.”

    Alex @4.24pm: “Will, don’t you forget what your team is?”

    Alex @4.24pm: “theres nothing soft about arsenal”

    Will @4.29pm: “Yes there is, we are soft when the ball is in the air and we are soft when the ball is bouncing. We lose second ball over 80% of the time. The old arsenal never did. We need some warriors in the team.”

    Will @4.37pm: “Two Arsenal against one Hammer and the Hammer comes away with the ball. We are soft and that is why we fail in the league.
    Seaman / Lehmann
    Adams, Keown, Campbell
    Vieira, Gilberto, Petit, Parlour
    Bergkamp, wright”
    All warriors who could mix it, who do we have in this team? Sanchez?”
    Alex @4.38pm: “Will, please go find some place somewhere else to cry”

    Will @4.42pm: “Oh Alex, people are allowed to have opinion. Mate, I was at Highbury from 1974, you?”

    Will @4.43pm: “I am guessing you are non English Arsenal fans?”

    Followed by:
    “Yet, I have been all over the country following this team since 1974 but your opinion is better than mine?”

    Followed by:
    “You’re a bit of a numpty.”
    Alex @4.48pm: “i just believe in boys and wait till last min of the game”

    Will @4.58pm: “Alex, stop being a cunt. By your reactions to my posts, Iam guessing you are 14.”

  • Will

    Yassin
    December 28, 2014 at 6:46 pm
    @Will,
    what they dont have?
    that lot didnt have the bad bias against them from the ref. And when they did, they lost (game 49?)

    Please am sure this team lacks things, but please stop blaming them for everything, and stop telling us not to blame the ref, even if we lose, that was obvious cheating.

    when have I blamed the players for everything?>

    Fucks sake people, stop being Le Grove at the opposite end, we are allowed to call the players out.

    And what the current players don’t have is

    Winning Mentality
    League championships.

  • Will

    I am sorry Bootoomee, what would you like me to say because clearly my opinion means shit to you.

  • jambug

    Walter

    You said:

    “I must admit the stream was too blurry to judge if he really touched the ball or not but he certainly attempted to divert the ball and in that case the call of offside was correct.”

    I haven’t seen it yet so I’m going entirely on what I’ve read and heard, but I would like to ask this.

    -If the offside player was NOT in the line of the keeper and did NOT attempt to play the ball, is the fact the ball just went through his legs enough to call him offside?

  • DMF

    Loved the match, great football, even the commentators reflected that obvious fact.

    It’s not that Arsenal are soft, it’s the FANS who are soft. Can’t handle a little bit of tension towards the end? Can’t seem to stomach the fact that most of the premiership teams will have a decent go at Arsenal? How else can we win? We take a lead, we hold on, or we come from behind and we hold on. This is what competitive sports is! If you think it’s because Arsenal are soft that west ham has chances towards the end then I’m not really sure what team you would consider hard. This happened ALL THE TIME in Arsenal’s title romp and there was far less parity between the teams in the table back then.

    The british seem to be in love with the idea of complete domination of a match at all times otherwise something must be wrong. Maybe it’s the psychological remnants, the boogeyman I might say, of a fallen empire? I’m teasing of course. Man up, cheer your hearts out, it’s competitive football and this is how it goes! COYG

  • WalterBroeckx

    This was the comment from a good internet friend of mine who is one of the leading man in the West Ham supporters in Belgium:

    “Terechte uitslag. Had zelfs 1-3 kunnen zijn. Helaas voor jullie was Adrian in topvorm vandaag. Heel entertainende en spannende wedstrijd.”

    I translate this:

    “Correct result. It could have been 1-3. Unfortunately for you Adrian was in top form today. Very entertaining and close match”.

  • Ref had a shocker thank god we were on form , never going to get those pen decisions, great three points !

  • jambug

    Will

    You don’t seem to have an opinion about Arsenal, rather an endless whinge.

    Considering all your boasting about what a long time Arsenal ‘supporter’ you are, you seem to exude an astonishing lack of that very thing……. support.

  • Don’t you just thank God Bootoomee is not your Dad !

  • Will,

    What you need to do is atop crapping your pants and posting emotionally during games when you should be enjoying the game.

    In light of West Ham’s position and home record this season, we ought to play them with respect and that’s what the team did. And we won on a ground where the League champions and runners up have lost this season. Show the team that you claim to love and support some respect.

    But more importantly, stop posting during games. This is only an advice and not a directive. I don’t think that you are a negative fan I just think that you (and indeed all fans) need to reserve comments till the end of the game.

  • Shoot,

    He’d be lucky to have me as his dad. With you as his father on the other hand, he’d be fucked up.

    Fuck off with your lame sarcasm.

  • Will

    Have you guys seen any of my posts on other entries>? Fucking hell people. Stop being so myopic and alow people to have differing opinions to you.

    Deal?

    Shoot,

    He’d be lucky to have me as his dad. With you as his father on the other hand, he’d be fucked up.

    Fuck off with your lame sarcasm.

    Wxcuse me, what did you say about my dad?

  • Will

    Ref had a shocker?

    Please answer me this, does the ref have a shocker every game Arsenal play in?

  • Gord

    Offsides are not to be called, just because a player is in an offside position.

    Writing this, there is alwasy the chance Walter, OMGArsenal, or others who have officiated will over-rule me.

    A player can be in an offside position when the ball is played in, and then act in such a manner that they should be called offside. For example, the ball comes in, hits the post and rebounds out. The player in an offside position can take advantage of being in the offside position and seek to play the ball on the rebound.

    Allerdyce said his players in offside positions were running out. For the ball to go between the legs of one of those offside players (and there is a photo showing that), for at least a little while that player wasn’t running. Sure, int he martial arts, some people learn to walk with their legs that far apart. I have yet to see anyone run with legs that far apart. The player seen the ball coming, and moved his legs apart, before the ball got to him.

    Next argument, was the Szczesny was to the left of where the ball crossed the goal line. From that photo which shows the ball passing between the player’s legs, Szczesny is not that far to the left, he is within playing distance.

    If the player redirects the ball, there is no doubt he is interfering with play from an offside position. When does Szczesny see the ball and gather enough information to act on it? From the photograph, Szczesny hasn’t apparently even started to act. You could decide that Szczesny’s view of the situation was blocked for far too long. You could decide that Szczesny purposely decided not to play, in order to fool the officials into calling back the goal. Which situation seems more likely? The first one. As those players were blocking the view of Szczesny for too long, they were interfering with play.

    There are additional scenarios a person could pose, and I won’t. No sense complicating a situation with details that didn’t happen.

  • Gord

    From the Daily Mail.

    > Some sort of normal order is restored but Allardyce can at least be flattered by Arsenal’s selection.

    > It is rare for Wenger to take account of the strengths of his opponents but he bolstered the midfield with a second ball-winner, Francis Coquelin alongside Mathieu Flamini, and Laurent Koscielny returned at centre-half despite his nagging Achilles problems.

    > The Arsenal boss finished the game with the only six senior defenders in his squad all on the pitch.

    Debuchy, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Monreal, Gibbs, Coquelin, Flamini is what I thought. Looking at the BBC commentary (for just that game), Chambers came on at 90 minutes. I didn’t know Chambers had come on (I just read commentaries, I don’t watch TV). We had 8 defensive players on the pitch at the conclusion of the game.

    And then people say Wenger doesn’t do tactics.

  • Will it was a joke , ref always has a shocker doesn’t he ?

  • porter

    Today’s points were hard earned and very welcome .On an individual basis we have better players than West Ham but they were able to prey on our weaknesses. Will is correct in one way that our major weakness is size and strength .our players are not naturally physical but they stepped up today with a similar spirit to that which they showed against QPR . I think his and probably my worry is how often we can invite teams on and get away with it. Against Rangers we celebrated Rosicky’s return but it cost us as he was not capable of turning out again today. We can see that Welbeck, The Ox, Sanchez and Chambers are reaching the end of their tethers and need time out but with current injuries we are sailing close to the wind .Southampton even without Schneiderlin will not be the place to suddenly bring back Walcott and hang the others out to dry with another repeat performance.

  • Tom

    ‘A great and hard fought win’

    Yes indeed.
    A gritty performance from everyone with flashes of brilliance from Santi and Alexis.
    Re the disallowed goal, it shouldn’t matter whether Scczesny was unsighted or not for the offside to be given in that situation. The West Ham player jumped over the ball , which is a footballing skill, thus he made himself active. It was a good call.
    There was a goal disallowed last season for New Castle United against MC where a New Castle player was in the off-side position but not interfering with the play nor in the goalie’s sight of view. And the strike from Tiote was a thunderbolt beyond saving. If that goal was disallowed then surely this one should’ve been as well.

    The referee made some mistakes as they usually do against us , but for the wingnut faction of UA I’ll say this much, if we can get a penalty awarded and have the oposition’s goal disallowed – I’ll take it any day. Count your blessings people!

    Regarding Cazorla’s penalty, I don’t know how far back you are going with your assessment that a player fouled should not take his own pens , but this hasn’t been true for a long time( if ever).
    Players like Ronaldo, Messi, Pirlo,Toti,Ronaldinho, Ronaldo( the original one), Maradona and countless other penalty takers always took their own penalties, unless badly hurt on the play.

    The only reason I was critical of Alexis taking his own pen against QPR, was because he is not our penalty taker.

    This is something that should be strictly enforced by the manager in situations where it could cost you dearly ( eg Ozil v Bayern in the CL)

    As for the conspiracy theorists on here , their heads must be spinning after today. Chelsea had Fabregas yellow carded for a dive that should’ve been a penalty, Man City had a goal scored from a clear offside position by a Burnley player but I’m sure someone will come along shortly to make ‘sense’ of this for me 🙂

  • Tom

    ‘avatarblacksheep63
    December 28, 2014 at 5:56 pm
    Have you heard Mourinho today? Claiming there is a conspiracy against Chelsea so they don’t get penalties and his players get booked for diving. You couldn’t make it up’

    The NBC crew run a little montage of Chelsea players’ recent dives and made fun of Mourinho’s almost incomprehensible rant. But it does work doesn’t it, most of the time anyways.

    I wish Arsene did a bit more of manipulating of the media and referees.
    Everyone does it, except Mourinho takes it to the extreme.

  • Jammy J

    What a great match and a great win! Its a shame that you get people like Will who feel the need to come in here with their negativity and pick holes in what was a very hard-earned win. Theres no pleasing these people; try and get some enjoyment out of life for christ sake!

  • Gord

    Just to add to Tom on a single point.

    In the news in the last few days (week?), I have seen that in terms of pecking order on penalties, Cazorla was the highest listed penalty taker on the field. Arteta is #1. My recollection is that Cazorla is #3, and I don’t remember #2.

  • Yassin

    @Gord,

    I think it was Giroud

  • Yassin

    @Gord,

    To add, in the Bayern Game, Wenger said it was like this:
    1-Arteta
    2-Ozil
    3-Giroud

    Them games later Giroud took the penalty when Artera was out ( I domt remember if Ozil was playing, but my guess is yes).

  • Gord

    Apparently, a group of “Arsenal Supporters” are mad at Arsenal (in a Wenger out way, which makes me think aaa) about Flamini and Coquelin both starting.

    https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/coquelin-flamini-midfield-pairing-leaves-arsenal-fans-outraged-on-social-media-142850144.html

    > So Wenger deemed Coquelin not good enough a month ago and sent him out on loan. Now he starts in a crucial, must win game! #WengerOut
    > — Jordan Stock (@Jooord374)

    Wenger loaned out Coquelin only 1 month ago? Is it that short?

    > WTF Wenger. Rosicky played so well against QPR and he doesn’t even make the bench now. Yet Coquelin starts smh.
    > — Tom¤Rust (@Tom_Rust18)

    As I pointed out earlier, Rosicky was mentioned in the post game interview. He was getting cramps at the end of the previous game. To avoid him getting cramps if played today, and posssibly suffering a strained muscle triggered by the cramp (I don’t think Tom believes in this), he was rested today.

    > Why on earth is Coquelin starting ahead of Rosicky.. not feeling confident at all
    > — Beano (@MarkGriffin19)

    Covered by above response to TomRust.

    > Coquelin-Flamini midfield partnership… Wenger be like pic.twitter.com/cAnoowOXTR
    > — Joe Giggs Curran V (@JoeGiggs91)

    I haven’t a clue. I don’t twit.

    > Surprise to see Wenger play Flamini & Coquelin together. Very defensive pairing, hopefully there’s method behind the madness there.
    > — Oliver Norgrove (@OliverNorgrove)

    Hmm, midfield (unless designated wide midfield) tend to play in the middle of the field. We are just bringing Koscielny back, and where does he play? In the middle of the field. And West Ham has a bunch of taller players who are used to playing long ball. And where does the ball often end up playing long ball? In the middle of the field. There would seem to be tactics at play there.

    > Flamini and Coquelin in the same XI as Alexis. That’s just wrong – surely Wenger can see that
    > — Oli Price-Bates (@OliPriceBates)

    Surely you can provide some evidence that it is “just wrong”. No? You are just twitting for the sake of twitting. Goodbye twit.

  • Gord

    @Yassin

    You mean who came on at the end? It couldn’t be Giroud, he is suspended. Today was first game, 2 more after this.

    Or did you mean something else?

  • Gord

    @Yassin

    Okay, I think I get it, sorry for that. Penalty order. What I seen was that Cazorla is 4th. And he was the highest ranked penalty player on the field.

    Thanks for catching that.

  • jambug

    Tom

    You said:

    “As for the conspiracy theorists on here , their heads must be spinning after today. Chelsea had Fabregas yellow carded for a dive that should’ve been a penalty, Man City had a goal scored from a clear offside position by a Burnley player but I’m sure someone will come along shortly to make ‘sense’ of this for me :)”

    Yes I will.

    At what point EVER did anyone on UA EVER say that decisions don’t go against other teams, or FOR Arsenal?

    If you can find it please show me because that is what your sarcastic comment is inferring.

    So come on, where has that EVER been said?

    UA’s claims of bias are made on the basis of pages and pages of statistics, over many seasons, and many many games, by professional and Amateur Referees, both of an Arsenal persuasion and otherwise, and NOT ON THE BASIS OF ONE DAYS EVENTS.

    I find your out of hand dismissal of all the hard work done on this site most perplexing, considering, save from the type of ridiculous comment above, you never have a single shred of evidence to back up your contrary point of view.

    As I’ve said many times, you think this site is run by a bunch of lying, deluded and paranoid fools yet you insist on keep coming back.

    Strange man.

  • Gord

    Nice twit from Sanchez after the game.

    http://football-talk.co.uk/98167/photo-happy-sanchez-poses-with-arsenal-team-mates-on-bus-after-west-ham-win/

    (The snippets that go to/from twitter.com are twits. If they were tweets, the name of the web site would have been tweeter.com.)

  • Gord

    Jambug

    Your comment reminded me of a joke.

    Have you heard about the dyslexic agnostic?

    He kept wondering if there was a dog.

    Speaking of jokes, Brickfields said he would be back Sunday, which is today. I sure hope he wasn’t on that AirAsia QZ8501 that went down.

  • Yassin

    @Gord,

    Sorry but I didnt get you,
    I meant I think it was Giroud 2nd. Now where does Ozil stand I dont know, is he 2nd, Giroud 3rd Cazorla 4th, or is it Giroud 2nd, Cazorla 3rd, and Ozil 4th.

    But now I remember the game against Newcastle,was Giroud playing when Cazorla took the penalty? Of so then Cazorla is 2nd and Giroud 3rd. Ok am lost… 🙂

  • WalterBroeckx

    as long as they convert the penalties I don’t really care 😉

  • Gord

    If there were no points given for a 0-0 tie, we would have:

    Chelsea 19 27 45
    Man City 19 24 43
    Man Utd 19 14 34
    Southampton 19 17 32
    Arsenal 19 11 33
    West Ham 19 7 30
    Tottenham 19 0 29

    Or, Arsenal would already be in 4th, only a single point behind ManU (the pretenders). And West Ham and the spuds would be further down.

    It would be nice if the IFAB and FUFA would consider this. If you don’t score, you don’t get points. Which only effects 0-0 ties.

    But it sure would remove the situation where both teams decide to park the bus.

    It probably wouldn’t be so bad, if after the two buses were parked, that catering staff rolled barbeques, tables and other stuff into the space between the two parked buses, and invited all the fans down for a free tailgate party. 🙂

  • WalterBroeckx

    I now just noticed that I thought I had written the title as West Ham – Arsenal 1-2, not for the faint hearted. 🙂 It must have been the adrenaline I think… 🙂

  • Yassin & Gord,

    From my understanding, the only constant for us when it comes to penalties is that Arteta takes them when on the field. I cannot speak confidently of any particular order of our other penalty takers but it has been mostly between Giroud and Cazorla since Ozil missed that Bayern penalty. If Podolski played more, he would have been my definite choice for taking penalties ahead of even Arteta. Ozil is my last choice when it comes to penalties.

  • Yassin

    Neither do I, Walter.
    Unless Sanchez take it, waste it, get angry and play the insame way he did against QPR, score an awesome header, dribble past the whole QPR to assist the 2nd, then I will care 🙂

  • Yassin

    @Bootoomee,

    Agree with you, still am just trying to remember what Wenger said that day, he said that Ozil was 2nd one to take of Arteta wasnt there. Now today I thought Cazorla might waste it, 3 penalties in last 4 matches, he must feel alot of pressure, bit what a penalty and what a player. I know he is your favorite, and he was brilliant today, no this whole month, hope he keep om this.

    @Gord,

    Sorry now I notices your second post, my bad.

  • Gord

    Yazzin

    I think you are doing just great. Arteta has shown he takes penalties well. Giroud seldom does things by just finese. If he is taking a penalty, I would expect lots of power near the posts. Cazorla has shown that he will take the pure finese penalty. Ozil, I don’t know. Just because he plays midfield, doesn’t mean he would try the finese penalty.

    But what I had read not too long ago, is that Cazorla was the highest ranked penalty taker (before Alexis missed his) for Arsenal currently healthy and able to play. Cazorla let Alexis take the penalty is how I read commentaries and summaries. But it really doesn’t matter (to me) if there is one or two between Arteta and Cazorla. I would hope that the Alexis miss reinforces that these pecking orders are made for a reason. If Cazorla would have taken that penalty, I think the goal would have been had. Which is nothing against Alexis as a player, especially one expected to score goals. Scoring goals from live play has little to do with scoring from the penalty spot.

  • Gord

    Well, with some help from Bootoomee, it looks like our list is: Arteta, Giroud, Cazorla. We could ask Wenger what his list is, but I don’t think we would get an answer.

    Sorry about putting Yazzin instead of Yassin last comment.

  • Gord

    Looking at the youth roster, they have 4 goalkeepers. I would bet you the Lehmann is still capable of playing goal. Is Seaman still capable of playing goal? How about the goalkeeping coach? That is 8 or 9 goalkeepers. If Arsenal needed to rank players on penalties, I think Lehmann could be convinced to come (I don’t know about Seaman).

    But, a penalty taker is chosen (which should not be a goalkeeper), and then a goalkeeper is chosen. Take the penalty. Do that for a day (or two). Rank the results.

    I think most of the Arsenal players would fancy scoring against the youth keepers. Ospina hasn’t played much due to injury, but I really don’t think there is much between him and Szczesny. And if you can bring in 2 more world class goalkeepers (as I rate both Szczesny and Ospina as world class), no player when chosen to take a penalty has any confidence in scoring, with the exception that a hard shot taken just under the crossbar just under the post is impossible to save (fairly), and that a hard shot just inside post at ground level is almost impossible to save (fairly). And let them try to fake out the goalkeeper. I expect Lehmann and Seaman have seen everything.

    No team (that I am aware of) has it yet, it should be possible really soon now (like tomorrow). But I think a person could build a robotic goalkeeper. Program in the strength of any particular goalkeeper. And leave as a wild card, the reaction time. And players could see how things change as reaction time goes to 0. At this time, I suspect getting reaction times on the order of 1ms might be about the best, which beats the heck out of the generic reaction time of 750ms for people (many athletes beat that by a factor of 10 in their particular endeavor).

  • Josif

    I think Arteta is No.1, his only missed penalty was the one against Fulham (Schwarzer’s save at 3:3 in 94th minute). Those two perfect penalties against Everton in FA Cup spring to mind.
    Cazorla was No.2 but I think he was demoted to No.3 due to that miss against Bradford (or due to Ozil’s arrival).
    Giroud missed his first penalty (Coventry) but scored the following ones.

  • Yassin,

    Of course, I absolutely love that cheeky Spaniard. Cazorla is the best. Every time he shuffles the ball from left to right (or vice versa) to elude defenders, I just go crazy. The guy is a complete creative player and what he did for us in his first season was outstanding after we’ve lost RVP and Fabregas & Nasri earlier.

    Looking at what Santi is currently doing and how Alexis unleashed himself on the league like some demigod, you might begin to understand my disapproval of the talking point that Ozil “lifted” Arsenal early last season. Apologies if anyone finds this offensive but I have not really missed Ozil. I wish him well and hope he returns to the field soon along with our other injured players but with Cazorla getting back to his old form and Alexis playing like a man possessed, it’ll be hypocritical of me to say that I miss Ozil.

  • Far East Gooner

    Great to hear about the result. Our tv station decided to broadcast southhampton – Chelsea game, I have to miss my gunner game.

    As I read and some comments from other friends whom each the game at internet. We were always being kicked and no referee protection.

    Will, if you had followed aresenal so long, the sofft arsenal was 3-4 years ago. We are tougher and more physical now but I referees are not fair and our players can’t just tackle with confident.

    Support arsenal with your heart. Players had tried their best.

  • Jammy J

    I genuinely cannot believe what im reading, regarding that slime ball Mourinhos comments about refs. Its not his comments that i cant believe, its the response from the pundits. Graeme Souness: “Hes drawn attention to it and is basically trying to put referees under pressure. And nobody does it better”. Are you fucking kidding me?! You stupid, docile, mummified-looking, scouse loving git; what a load of old drivel!

  • Gord

    Soft and tough.

    While it would have been nice if Will would have let go earlier, Will is not “wrong”. And Alex (the other party) is not “right”. For the most part, I think Will misunderstood Alex, but that is not relevent to this note.

    As written, the laws allow for shoulder to shoulder contact when the ball is within playing distance. The only THING that is allowed to trip a player, is the ball.

    If you can stop the ball and in the process, cause the player who had ball possession to trip over the ball, you have committed no foul. This is a description of a legal tackle. Any tackle whereby the ball is stopped (or not), and the player who had possession has been tripped (or not) that doesn’t agree with the fact that the only THING that is allowed to trip a player is the ball, is a foul tackle.

    The laws allow the referee to ignore trivial fouls in the interest of keeping the game flowing. And this has been blown out of all proportion. In the interest of keeping the game flowing, almost nothing gets called that is a foul. And that is NOT the intention of keeping the game flowing. The PGMO is guilty of following this.

    In a lot of circumstances, it is possible for a skilled defender to slide along the ground, raising one or both legs up, TO STOP THE BALL, and have the player who had been in control of the ball, TRIP OVER THE BALL. That is a legal tackle. The important part, is that the player trips over the ball. The player, if they trip, doesn’t trip over the tackling player.

    What this morphs into is, “He got the ball”. Getting the ball is irrelevent!!!!! Did you get the player? If you got the player, you fouled him. FULL STOP!

    The EPL has all this garbage about letting the game flow, and sure, letting players grab each other is fine.

    Habits are a hard thing to get rid of.

    Scud amore (isn’t a scud a terrorist weapon?) mentioned a 39’th game was off the cards. The idea to make more money. Hard to imagine the EPL turning down a stupid idea to make more money.

    Let’s have a 0’th game each season, at a date to be determined (and including the Christmas break). What would really be interesting, is to make the determination secret. But, in any event, on the 0’th game, everything gets called. And if that game took 4 days to complete, so be it. But players need to know that not everything they are used to getting away with is legal. And having to play a game where EVERYTHING is called, is a good thing.

    If nothing else, it should help England get further along in things like the Olympics and World Cup.

  • Pete

    Penalty sequence – pretty sure Cazorla has taken penalties while Giroud has been on the pitch recently (and defo was first in line against QPR – and Giroud was on the pitch), so would have him 2nd.

    Re the offside goal, three WHU players in an offside position. One was blocking Szcz’s view while another jumped over the ball, possibly attempting to play it. This would certainly distract the keeper (do I need to change direction?) I was on an Asst Referees’ course recently and they had a load of video examples of this kind of situation. Pretty clear (to me) that the correct decision was made – to disallow the goal.

    Only saw last 35 minutes on a succession of poor streams – but what little I could make out showed us defending diligently while ripping West Ham to shreds on the break. Cannot believe we didn’t score more. Well played everyone – great performance. I just feel a little sorry for the likes of Walcott and Podolski (and Akpom) who would either get a chance when we are chasing a game, or when we are several goals to the good – but not when we are hanging on.

    Will be interesting to see who gets selected for Southampton and Hull. Suspect Hull might rest a few as they are desperate for League points at the moment. It might well be the same XI for Southampton. They are at least as dangerous at home as West Ham. Man City away soon as well – the fixture list is making it tough!

  • gouresh

    i saw the game which i had recorded. boy what a game, end to end stuff, proper game. the 1st half, yes was West Hams, but they did not create anything, apart of hofing the ball in our box our boys new this was coming, so you could see it in the way we played. quite cautions and trying to get the counter. i read some of the comments about us not competing. thats rubbish, yes we lacked hight but we were strong, tough and stood up for the chaallanges. i was a bit disappointed with our BFG in the 1st half as be allowed Andy quite a few free headers. 2nd half we should have finished them off. The score could have need, what 4 or 5 goals to us, if we could have scored them. did not not hear the commentators mention this. the team played very well, and WH getting some chances towards the end is quite acceptable. Santi was fantastic today and Coquelin shocked me. the whole team played well and as one unit. that’s great to watch.

  • omgarsenal

    The Arsenal are definitely on a roll and will likely improve their chances for a top 4 position if they can take points from Southampton, easier said than done but WHU were a tough nut to crack as well. There are a few things that I noticed over the last few games about our current squad and their style of play:

    1) The squad is definitely smaller and less physical than their opponents in most cases but so what?
    2) Their flexibility, speed of execution and agility are fantastic. Sanchez and Cazorla are like greased foxes…they squirm and slide their way between the slower, less alert defenders and make extraordinary opportunities for their teammates….this is a new aspect of AFC that I really enjoy.
    3) When the Arsenal attackers break into the opponent’s box, they tend to try and shoot rather than pass across to an open teammate. Wellbeck does this all too often. I imagine Wenger has advised him to forgo the shot and try a pass once in awhile.
    4) Sanchez, the Ox,Cazorla and Wellbeck have a terrific sense of positioning and seem to find empty space in the box despite heavy marking. Both Sanchez and Cazorla are foxes in the box….great for any team.
    5) Arsenal have some very speedy players; Wellbeck, Theo, the Ox, Cazorla, who really threaten their opponent’s, especially when they play on the break…we will be very formidable once Ozil, Giroud, Ramsey,Arteta and Wilshere return.

    Great 3 points lads.

    Will….I think you’ve confused Rugby football with Association Football….after so many years of watching football you’d expect one to be able to tell the difference?

  • Gord

    It is nice to see articles in the news about Coquelin. He deserves to have article mostly about him, at Arsenal, in the EPL, in the newspaper. Hopefully he sends copies back home. 🙂

    Congratulations young man!

  • We fielded a team that was almost the same as two days before ( 2 changes) and we are the only one to WIN after doing that among the top 5 teams. Whatever the new fitness coach is doing to get the players recover faster from fatigue it is working. Last match was 40 mins with 10 men and this match was high tempo for the full 90 mins. Our players coped with it really well from the game-pace point of view. Really good to see.
    Lets hope santi and alexi recover in time or S’ton.

  • Will

    Jammy J
    December 28, 2014 at 8:32 pm
    What a great match and a great win! Its a shame that you get people like Will who feel the need to come in here with their negativity and pick holes in what was a very hard-earned win. Theres no pleasing these people; try and get some enjoyment out of life for christ sake!

    Sorry for wanting MY TEAM to be better. So I will live in your world

    Pink fluffy Unicorns dancing on rainbows. How’s that?

  • Arvind

    I like rainbows :). They’re colourful :). Unicorns are nice too, but I like elephants better. Where’s Brickfields though? I miss his jokes.

  • Will

    Guys, we all love Arsenal but there should be a moderate place we can discuss and not be all in with the pro or anti stances.

    This is a great website but there are some people on here who try and shout down any poster who dares criticise Arsenal or Wenger. I am noticing it is usually young people not born in the uk so I am not sure is this is them trying to prove a point and compensate for not being born two roads down from Highbury or what.

    We need to stop the all or nothing brigade and come together to discuss out great team.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Gord – December 28, 2014 at 9:23 pm – Me’s a safe , thank you !
    Was able to get onto a computer just now , and reading my first article since Christmas. Have yet to see the games we played , but overjoyed with Santa’s gifts of six points for us !
    Am enjoying wading through the fine AKBs ‘comments of our good tidings as well as those ‘Bah humbug !” comments of those ‘jerks’ Scrooges and them offensive Grinches who are trying to steal our X’Mas cheer !

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Arvind – December 29, 2014 at 6:38 am – Ok , ok , boys and girls ,Santa Brickfields is here ,to bring cheer and merry-ment for the faithful !
    Here’s one about loss, mourning ,meeting another and a sure fire “Happy ending” !

    Karen lost her husband almost four years ago and still hasn’t gotten out of her mourning stage. Her daughter is constantly calling her and urging her to get back into the world. Finally, Karen says she’d go out, but didn’t know anyone.

    Her daughter immediately replies: “Mom! I have someone for you to meet. Well, it was an immediate hit. They took to one another and after dating for six weeks, he asks her to join him for a weekend in the Catskills.

    Their first night there, she undresses as he does. There she stood nude except for a pair of black lacy panties, he in his birthday suit.

    Looking at her he asks: “Why the black panties?”

    She replies: “My breasts you can fondle, my body is yours to explore, but down there I am still in mourning.”

    He knows he’s not getting lucky that night.

    The following night the same scenario. She’s standing there with the black panties on, and he is in his birthday suit … except that he is wearing a black condom.

    She looks at him and asks: “What’s with this … a black condom?”

    “Well.” He said, “I wanted to offer my deepest condolences.”

  • Ray from Norfolk, Virginia

    Greetings!
    I see that 7amkickoff, writing the “by the numbers” piece for Arseblog less than an hour ago, acknowledges that the Boss does do tactics.
    Shrewdly, 7amkickoff has noticed that Allardyce set his team to nullify Arsenal on the left, with Tompkins and Amalfitano on the right.
    But, it looks like the Boss out-Allardyced Big Sam by using a compact formation, with Kos, Per, Flamini, and Coquelin helping out.
    As a result, we thrived on the counter thanks to an incredible Cazorla, who converted his own penalty, and Welbeck on a counterattack.
    In other news, several players are in need of some rest, including Flamini and the Ox; Per and Alexis have also played tons of games.
    So, I hope Rosicky is available to play at Southampton, to give a breather for the Ox; Podolski could see limited action at the end.
    My wish for the new year is that Cazorla stays healthy. Stats today include possession (only 42.5%) but we produced many more shots.
    As far as shots we had 21 (7 on target) while they only had 14 (4 on target) and their goalkeeper produced several important saves.

  • Will

    My one wish would be for Poldi to get more games and get more into games.

    Saying that, when everyone is fit, woah mama what a strike force.

  • ob1977

    In reference to the Maureen rant wasn’t the Swansea manager last season or early this season get dragged over the coals for saying Swansea didn’t get penalties as therefore he must be saying that refs are cheats? Look forward to Maureens obvious upcoming 3 match touch line ban then…. hmmm…..

  • ob1977

    But to be on point for the article I think this was a great win, with fantastic team spirit and guts to get the result after the quick turnaround and having played 40 min down to 10 men less than 48 hours before, le coq was brought in for the second ball which Will had mentioned (just once or twice) and think he have also had a very good game hopefully showing some of the potential that he had in his early days at Arsenal.
    I will just add though that I wish Theo had managed a couple of run outs in the last few games as he would now be nearing match fitness to start against Southampton, but Arsene is infinitely wiser than me when it comes to managing players, a team, and a club so I will bow to his superior knowledge (on probably just about everything to be honest).

  • para

    Until the rules become absolute, then we will always have issues like today, lucky it went our way and Song went goalless.

    I found the lads fought today, and although some mistakes, they fought back.
    Kudos to the ref for not being overtly biased, for there were many Arsenal tackles another ref (no names mentioned) would have given against us.

    All in all satisfied.

    Interesting ties coming up:

    Thursday 1st January 2015
    Stoke v Man Utd
    Southampton v Arsenal

    Sunday 11th January 2015
    Arsenal v Stoke
    Man Utd v Southampton

  • Nick the Gooner

    First I must point out a few “thingies” before I make my comment/point
    1) I give an opinion below that the referee got it right by the letter of the law – I still think we were lucky with the decision but given the number of times we have been on the right side of the law not got the decision and it has effected the result then we were due one.
    2) I am not a referee – so I am giving opinion – as this is a debating site with intelligence feel free to criticise or support or if you are a ref to add fact to the matter
    3) I am using a Law book that is out of date so if anyone can correct this then go ahead.

    I only got to watch the West Ham game on Sky re run last night – it surprises me how seldom the TV pundits do refer to the law book.
    You are offside if:-
    A player in an offside position is only
    penalised if, at the moment the ball touches
    or is played by one of his team, he is, in the
    opinion of the referee, involved in active play
    by:
    interfering with play
    or
    interfering with an opponent
    or
    gaining an advantage by being in that
    Position
    Now we can take and look at this
    • First gaining an advantage – Fifa explain this
    ○ Gaining an advantage by being in
    that position means playing a ball that
    rebounds to him off a goal-post or the
    crossbar having been in an offside
    position or playing the ball that
    rebounds to him off an opponent
    having been in an offside position
    Clearly this is not the case – the ball never rebounded and went in the net.
    • Interfering with Play
    ○ Interfering with play means playing
    or touching the ball passed or touched
    by a team-mate
    • Interfering with another player
    ○ Interfering with an opponent means
    preventing an opponent from playing
    or being able to play the ball by
    clearly obstructing the opponent’s line
    of vision or movements or making a
    gesture or movement which, in the
    opinion of the referee, deceives or
    distracts an opponent
    Too much has been talked about the line of vision. Lets look at the later part – the West Ham Defenders were in the path of the ball, by making a movement that deceives Szczesny and it is offside. As said unfortunate but correct.

    Lastly I’ll make a sentimental comment. Persoanlly I quite like west Ham – even if just for the mutual hate of the in betweeners we have!!
    Allardyce when at Bolton used to get his team to kick lumps out of us – nowadays his team plays with skill and energy. He has suffered more “out” comments than err – Wenger!! I hope at West Ham he goes on to get some success at the irons.

  • jambug

    Jammy J

    “I genuinely cannot believe what im reading, regarding that slime ball Mourinhos comments about refs. Its not his comments that i cant believe, its the response from the pundits.”

    Echoing exactly what I said at 6:55PM. It’s a joke, and as I’ve said many times, the stance the media takes has a MAJOR effect on how certain teams are refereed.

  • jambug

    Will

    “This is a great website but there are some people on here who try and shout down any poster who dares criticise Arsenal or Wenger.”

    Not true.

    Today you have come here with 2 specific criticisms.

    1)Arsenal where soft yesterday, and always are.

    2)UA blame referees for everything.

    All that has happened is that you have bee consistently challenged on both. This is what you’ve been saying throughout the thread:
    We need to stop the all or nothing brigade and come together to discuss out great team.”Wenger needs to sign some warriors for this team, we are too soft, easily knocked off the ball, lightweight in the air and extremely poor for second ball.”

    “We have very few “warriors” who stick the boot on when the ball is bouncing.”

    “Jesus people, stop blaming the ref’s for everything”

    “the tackles are not hard, we just don’t go in as hard as the opposition.”

    “Like I said, we lose to much second ball and we are not great in the air, we cannot blame the ref’s for that.”

    “Sorry if you wish to blame the ref for everything, that is after all, your right but in my opinion (born of years of supporting MY TEAM), we have become a little soft when the boots are flying. We lose too many headers and when the ball is bouncing (second ball for those who failed to understand) we hesitate allowing opposition players to nip in before us.”

    “It is all well and good evolving as a team but THE LEAGUE HASN’T EVOLVED. It is still the most physical league in the world and if we can’t at least match teams, we will not win the league”

    AFTER ALL THAT YOU THEN COME OUT WITH THIS LITTLE GEM:

    “when have I blamed the players for everything?> ”

    Ummmm, I wonder !!!!!!!!

    Anyway you continue:

    “Please answer me this, does the ref have a shocker every game Arsenal play in”

    “We need to stop the all or nothing brigade and come together to discuss out great team.”

    Discussing our great team????

    You’ve just spent an entire evening slaughtering our ‘great team’.

    What an absolute hypocrite you are.

  • Will

    Are you mental? How have I slaughtered “Our” great team? I have merely stated an opinion from what I see on the pitch. we rarely win second ball which causes us untold issues and we lose more headers than we should.

    Would you like to dispute this opinion?

  • jambug

    Nick the Gooner

    Thanks for that.

    I think this is the relevant paragraph regarding this particular incident.

    “……..making a
    gesture or movement which, in the
    opinion of the referee, deceives or
    distracts an opponent”

    Dummying the ball is a ‘skill’, all be it one even I could do, and is specifically meant to ‘deceive’ an opponent and would definitely ‘distract’ the keeper.

    I too can understand West Hams frustration and would possibly be moaning if the boot was on the other foot, BUT, by ‘the letter of the law’ the goal was CORRECVTLY ruled out, as frustrating as that may be.

    Also, on MOTD they did say that Carol was also offside and was ‘standing in the line of sight of the keeper’, hence it should of been disallowed for that.

    Personally though I’m not sure Carol was offside.

  • jambug

    Will

    Yep I would, as it seems would just about everyone else on this thread.

    Still you carry on.

    Accusing people of being ‘C**ts’ and ‘Mental’

    Not sure that’s the way to go is it?

  • Will

    Jambug, please give me my opinion as you clearly don’t believe I should have my own.

  • jambug

    Will

    This is a summery of your comments.

    “We cant match teams because we have very few warriors who stick the boot in or go in hard on the opposition. We loose too much 2nd ball and are not great in the air and hesitate allowing opposition players to nip in before us”

    Every word yours

    I certainly wouldn’t consider a team consisting of those particular characteristics as in anyway great, yet you are trying to claim you do.

    As I say, total hypocrite.

  • Will

    Well, the invincible team had that attribute in abundance, I take it you don’t agree?

  • Will

    Plus, I am not sure you know the exact meaning of hypocrite.

  • jambug

    Will

    You don’t seem to be able to grasp how a debate works.

    When have I or anyone else said you are not entitled to your opinion?

    What I am saying is I don’t agree with your opinion. That is a different thing.

    We are having a ‘debate’ an ‘argument’ a ‘disagreement’ call it what you want, either way it’s simply 2 (or more) people exchanging views. Views we are both entitled to. Views that either could be correct.

    I just happen to think your accusations of our team being ‘soft’ etc. etc. are entirely wrong and am telling you so, and will keep telling you so, as long as you continue to make the accusations.

    If you don’t like it, stop posting, it’s as simple as that really.

  • jambug

    Will

    Don’t you have a dictionary?

  • Mick

    @Will
    I am at a loss to see how you think we were soft in yesterdays match. I thought the exact opposite, we battled and competed to a man, we tackled hard, we put our bodies on the line when needed, the forwards tracked back, exactly what was needed against an Allardyce team who bombarded us with high balls and crosses throughout the game. Sorry but your assessment is way off the truth in this particular game.

  • Will

    Do any of you get the idea of second ball?

  • Jammy J

    Will there is other places to go spout your inane negative bullshit; please keep out of the dojo

  • goonergerry

    Wondered how long it would be before the dogs of criticism rounded on Will for daring to suggest that the team can appear soft. Its not such a far fetched suggestion- Tony Adams has been bemoaning the lack of defensive capability in the side for years and in my opinion he has been proved right.

    I still find it strange that some people think that supporters criticising their team commit some kind of crime- supporters have always criticised their own team- though some have clearly turned that into an art form.
    However loyalty does not mean that supporters should be blind to their teams weaknesses and not striving for improvement.

    Personally I thought the team demonstrated loads of fight- and they did win the second ball more often than not-and I love the extra fight that Welbeck and Sanchez gives the forwards, determination and also a growing confidence in front of goal- which could have been even better. I reckon that certain commentators like Tony Gale don’t understand the game-effort is not the same as ability. This Arsenal team know they are a better team than West Ham and we were unlucky not to beat them by more.

    However on the negative side Sam had clearly spotted that Arsenal still give sides too much space in front of the defence at times- and we rode our luck on a couple of occaisons.

    Beating WHU is good and welcome, I still think the team will not beat the top sides who won’t miss those chances and will close us down in midfield more effectively.
    Nevertheless I think we are on the up and there are some good uns to come back in.

    As for Mourinho claiming conspiracy when for once refs don’t favour his very physical defenders-well he would wouldn’t he- the repugnant one is only using Ferguson tactics to pressurise referees.

  • Yassin

    So when they want to criticize the team, we should shut up, not argue, and listen.

    When we criticize the ref, we should again shut up, not argue and listen.

    What logic is that? If someone does not want to debate his opinion, why say it in the first place?

    You have the right to criticizw, and we have the right to defend.

  • Will

    Jammy J

    Where are you from
    How old are you?
    When did you start supporting The Arsenal?

    Yassin – no one is saying shut uo but try and understand this.

    I am a Gooner of 40 years raised in a staunch Gooner family of over 85 years.
    My father was a semi-pro
    Both brothers signed pro and we have 1st division pr friends of the family.
    I have also managed at a pretty decent level so, to be told to go cry somewhere else because I dared state my opinion that we lose too many second balls and we are lightweight in the air is offensive and frankly, credit worthy of extensive derision.

    The bile spouted on here at people who dare say Wenger or the players have done something wrong is fascicle and I have noticed, the biggest perpetrators of said bile are young, foreign boys.

    How dare anyone dig me for stating my opinion born from years of watching, playing and being taught the game at the highest level. Let alone some 16 year old numpty.

    Now, that said, let’s leave it as I am sure most are getting bored with this as I know I am.

  • Jammy J

    Also, all i ever see Will type about is either a insult at another poster or criticizing the team. You say a supporter has the right to criticize their team, but your missing one big fundamental point from that sentence; the supporting bit!

  • TommieGun

    @ Will and the rest, as the self-appointed advocate for balance –

    1. Relatively speaking, we are soft this year, so far. I have been saying that as well. The key words in this sentence are: “relatively” and “so far”. I don’t think there’s a dispute that in more matches than not, we have been less combative than required.

    * the above statement does not take into account the fact that this percieved “softness” can have, and probably has, many mitigating factors such as injuries, unequal treatment by the refs, and other factors. It is what it is: a statement/observation.

    2. Yesterday’s match was probably our best match this year grit-wise (together with WBA away). To me, it really stood out as one match where we played an aggressive, physical opponent, away from home, and were not shy in dealing some sour medicine to WHU players.

    3. Yesterday’s match last 10 minutes were nerve wrecking, were not typified by the very combative first 85 minutes, and had some insane decision making by some of our players, who tried to control the ball 18 yards away from goal, instead of launching it into orbit or trying to hunt a migrating sea gull (whatever you fancy).

    4. So understandbly, someone could be emotionally affected by the last 10 minutes, where we indeed not get to those second balls first, lost possession in strange areas, and seemed (and the doubts are merited, based on this year) on course for conceding another (which did not happen). And out of those last 10 minutes came out the wrong observation that “we were soft” in a match where we nothing but.

    If people are looking for a fight, they will find a fight. The easiest thing, and I repeat – the easiest – is to copy a part of someone’s post, and then take it out of context in order to make a point. It is not an intelligent way of debating, nor is it very fair. In court, it might even be branded as “misleading”. You want to refer to a text? You refer to it in its entierty, don’t take the part which suits you and make your case about that part.

    When I watch a match and I get nervous I blurt out a lot of things, I curse, I curse our players really badly when they make mistakes and then apologize after 3 seconds, it’s all emotions. You can’t tell people how to feel. It’s ridiculous.

    I believe Will that he is a die hard fan, I am convinced he is not your typical aaa and as far as my memory serves me he has not once said anything bad about Wenger. I also have to say that although I don’t live in the UK and only get to see 3-5 matches live each year – I do understand the point people are trying to make when they say that they went to hunderds of matches throughout the last 30 years or so. It is easily dismissed and it shouldn’t be. I don’t mind debating that point if required.

    So for the sake of the holidays’ spirit, everybody take a step back, and chill. Will (who I don’t know) seems like a good guy, let’s concentrate our efforts on the true shitheads.

  • Rantetta

    Thanks Walter.

    And thanks to all who positively support The Arsenal.

  • finsbury

    The xenophobic bigoted trolls concept of a good footballer is Andy Carroll:

    An overpriced laundrette who knows how to push opponents with two hands (is an ‘ard man innit?) but when presented with an opportunity to use his feet several yards from the goal is incapable of using his feet and shooting straight (what with the game being called Football and all).

    What a plonker. A self-declared Expert in Football, Finance, Physiotherapy (Sports) and ritualistic sado-masochitsic humiliation no less.

    Don’t let the door slam you on the Arsenal on the way out

  • Jammy J

    And a plonker worth £30mil, hahaha – still cracks me up to this day 😀

  • Ray from Norfolk, Virginia

    What are we bothering with the haters?
    We are supporters, so we must support.
    support the Boss and the players.
    I just cannot support any owners.
    Nor xenophobic bigots.
    Nor anti-Wenger moaners.
    Nor wannabe managers.

  • finsbury

    Jammu J

    Around about the same price as Alexis Electric Sanchez! 😉

    “Wenger knows the market”
    Said the BBCs Alan Sugar, former owner and fan of THFC.
    The following is just a guess but it’s fair to conclude that the buisness mogul knows more about that side of things the Usual self-declared Experts. What with him having owned a PL club.

    Then there was the comment by Tottenham fan, former top level player (not the Rymans South second division then) former PL manager who said directly to two Podcastateers over the summer:

    “Arsenal football club represent the best in English Football”
    What could he mean? And more intriguingly why were his hosts incapable of responding to that comment! 🙂

  • TommieGun,

    If you had only read this:

    __

    “Bootoomee
    December 28, 2014 at 7:22 pm

    Will,

    What you need to do is atop crapping your pants and posting emotionally during games when you should be enjoying the game.”

    In light of West Ham’s position and home record this season, we ought to play them with respect and that’s what the team did. And we won on a ground where the League champions and runners up have lost this season. Show the team that you claim to love and support some respect.”

    But more importantly, stop posting during games. This is only an advice and not a directive. I don’t think that you are a negative fan I just think that you (and indeed all fans) need to reserve comments till the end of the game.”

    __

    Then you wouldn’t need to type your 12.31pm comment.

    You are also trying too hard to be a centrist here (I have nothing but utter contempt for centrists). Will’s negative comments started flowing from the first first half and they were so bad that Alex told him to “go and cry somewhere else”. Alex merely beat me to it by the way as I was about to post the same thing.

    My problem with people like Will is that they come unto a public forum, post their opinion criticising the actions of others and then whine when called out by other commenters. For fuck sake, that is how freedom of speech works. Also, the first person to start name-calling was Will when he called Alex a “cunt”.

    You insinuation of copying and pasting to quote out of context is also way off the mark. My 6.57pm comment of yesterday were all verbatim comments of Will. VERBATIM.

    I have also tried to play the mediator here a few times but the first requirement of effective mediation is objectivity and I think that you weren’t very objective in your mediation effort here.

  • jambug

    Will/TommieGun

    I also posted direct quotes from Will. At no time have I tried to deceive or change the meaning of Wills words.

    His accusation is that Arsenal players where ‘soft’ yesterday and are ‘soft’ in general.

    To deny that would be ridiculous.

    All I have done is contested that accusation and have been called ‘mental’ for doing so. Ha called one poster a C**t.

    Fine, sticks and stones and all that, but can I suggest there is only one person on here who needs mediation.

  • TommieGun

    @ Bootoome,

    I wrote my 12:31 comment after reading your comment.

    I wasn’t specifically referring to you today in the taking a part of someone’s text and using it. I am not sure whether this is a case of “Suspicion Always Haunts The Guilty Mind” or not, but that’s not the point: the point is that this method is employed by some people and I don’t think it’s very relevant for debating.

    Don’t take it as an offence, but the “looking for a fight” bit WAS directed at you. You are a loyal supporter with almost 100% identical views to mine when it comes to the club, and I consider you a cyber friend, but in my opinion you are one of the last untolders to be considered as “a mediator”.

    Don’t get me wrong: Will was wrong. To come out and say we were soft in the WHU match is groundless. I was just trying to illustrate that there are posters who just want Arsenal to do badly, want Wenger to go away, and never find a positive point about the club. My perception of Will is different.

    Peace.

  • TommieGun,

    I am a big boy who never shies from a fight. I wear accusations of me looking for a fight in defence of Arsenal as a badge of honour, online and in the real world. You are wrong about not seeing me as a mediator. Not in in AAA vs AKB fights but I play the peacemaker with my AKB pals. Take that anyway you want.

    More importantly though, you wrote this:

    “Don’t get me wrong: Will was wrong. To come out and say we were soft in the WHU match is groundless.”

    This is my problem with “centrism”: forced middle ground, whether justified or not as I don’t get why you need to take shots at people who disagree with Will when you also do. Will was whining from about 30 minutes into the game about the team being soft. He whined like that all through the game and even after the final whistle. That is what he was challenged on. Not his perception of our “softness” this season which you agree with and for which I suspect you were so zealous to defend him. That is fine by me as long as you don’t try to play the mediator when you have a side in the argument.

    It will be more honest of you to acknowledge that your accusation of copying and pasting portions of posts to quote out of context is wrong. I hope to read your acceptance of this as my integrity is very important to me. If you don’t really believe that he was being quoted out of context, I struggle to understand why you put that in and rather than admit you were wrong, you doubled down with: “Suspicion Always Haunts The Guilty Mind”

    What the hell does that even mean? You are a lawyer man, I am sure you know better.

  • jambug

    Bootoomee

    May of been me my friend as I was cutting and pasting a lot of Wills posts to compress (not distort) what he was saying.

    Will seems to see disagreement with him as trying to oppress his right to an opinion. It is nothing of the sort.

    Then he falls back on the ‘I’ve been a supporter since 1974’ as some kind of enhancement to his opinion.

    Well I was at Highbury in 1968 so I suppose that makes my opinion better than Wills…ner ner……ner ner

  • jambug,

    Not necessarily my dear friend. Will’s comments were pretty short and straight to the point so there is little context for anything to be quoted out of. I have read all your comments on this and you are guilty of nothing. If TommieGun was unsure of Will’s context, he could have gone to the original thread to read his full comments.

  • Micheal Ram

    I have no idea why some fans say Arsenal players are soft. They are fast, fitter and more footballers than West Ham players, whom their size and bulk got them skinned again and again. When I was in South Africa, they say rugby is a hooligans’ game for gentlemen, football is a gentlemen’s game for hooligans. Arsenal always play that since AW arrived and practically changed the face of football in England. Now, you people want to go back to be dinosaurs?! You can take a man from a cave, but you can’t take a cave from a man. Truly, you homo erectus.

  • Menace

    I’ve had a problem connecting to Untold for a couple of days where browser could not find untold-arsenal.com. However, here is my comment –

    Will – the first part of your query needs little explanation. The players we have today are in many respects better than those with which we won so many trophies. The difference is the competition is better and the officiating consistently biased. Todays Arsenal players have to consider this bias and play within strict guidance to ensure minimal punishment from the officials & avoid injury. They avoid contact where possible and even when grabbed in choke holds avoid complaint lest they get punished for being caressed by an angel. The best player in English Football today has been tackled so badly, almost to the point of having his legs broken yet very little has been written in the press. Even our illustrious leader Wenger has bitten his lip more times than I can remember in order to evade the evil this game has now been governed by. Some may complain & others truthfully state their cases just to be fined and chastised for being honest.
    The officiating then was done by amateur referees & have since been organised into a ‘professional’ secret society under Riley (sadly a cheating bastard of the worst order). The FA (like FIFA) have not changed much. They are still a racially select band of money grabbing old men.