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October 2016
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West Ham – Arsenal 3-3

By Walter Broeckx

Arsenal started with an unchanged side for Arsenal’s last match at Boleyn Ground against West Ham.

So still Ospina in goal and Cech on the bench. And Iwobi kept his place in the starting team. Welbeck still up front to lead the attack. And Elneny and Coquelin the midfield partners.

Arsenal team : Ospina, Bellerin, Koscielny, Gabriel, Monreal, Coquelin, Elneny, Iwobi, Ozil, Alexis, Welbeck

On the beach: Cech, Mertesacker, Chambers, Gibbs, Ramsey, Walcott, Giroud

A first dangerous situation in front of the Arsenal goal but it was a clear offside well called by the assistant, the ball went wide. Then Carroll with a dangerous kick from behind against Koscielny. A yellow card and a treatment for Koscielny followed but he could carry on. My match commentator said this should have been a red card. Much midfield play from both teams followed. Pawson ignoring a clear foul on Monreal… A bit later a cross that was put back in front of goal the assistant raised his flag and cancelled a goal. I think Bellerin was behind the striker when Carroll put the ball back in front of goal. Bellerin was in fact so a real escape for Arsenal and a referee decision going our way. Still 0-0 after 15 minutes.


Bellerin to Welbeck in an excellent position but a defender first on the ball to clear the danger. Arsenal more attacking now and Iwobi to Özil who seemed just offside but the assistant kept his flag down. The German player made no mistake and put the ball past the West Ham United keeper. GOAL! 0-1 to Arsenal after 17 minutes.


Alexis trying to give a smart ball to Welbeck but both times just not precise enough. West Ham with a free kick but headed out by Koscielny. Much midfield play again with not much goal mouth incidents from both teams. Alexis with a shot from distance but not much problem for the keeper. Arsenal still 0-1 up after 30 minutes.


Arsenal combining in the middle Iwobi with the ball, Welbeck making a good run and Iwobi with a lobbed pass in the path of Alexis who again made no mistake and put the ball over the line. GOAL! 0-2 to The Arsenal after 34 minutes.


Carroll with a good shot from outside the penalty area and an excellent save from Ospina. Welbeck almost away but a defender can prevent danger. Welbeck then with some pressure on the keeper and blocking the shot but the ball goes out for a goal kick. A West Ham player then deliberately puts himself on top of the ball so Arsenal can’t clear and the ref ignores it. Lucky the header from Carroll is too weak to trouble Ospina. But a bit later a cross to Carroll who heads the ball over the line. 1-2 after 44 minutes.


Monreal at the other end with a chance but blocked by West Ham defenders. West Ham with some pressure in the closing minutes and when Arsenal can’t clear the ball Carroll can score his second goal when he gets the ball back from his first missed shot. 2-2 in the last minute of normal time and at half time.


Carroll plants his elbow in the face of Gabriel at the start of the second half… but no second yellow card follows. Carroll then pulls back Koscielny and as a result Payet puts the ball over the line but lucky the ref called the clear foul. Carroll really was all over Koscielny. But a bit later a cross and again Carroll who heads the ball over the line. 3-2 to West Ham after 52 minutes. Carroll who should have been off by now.


Another cross from Payet but Carroll cannot get on the end of it now. Arsenal hanging on for the moment not getting their passing together. After one hour Ramsey comes in for Coquelin.

Arsenal trying to put some pressure on West Ham and Ramey forces a corner. Elneny goes off and Giroud comes on after 67 minutes. The corner comes to Monreal whose shot beats the keeper but a defender on the line can save West Ham. Welbeck now on the flank with Iwobi dropping in midfield. Arsenal with a corner that comes back to Özil. He gives it to Ramsey who flicks it on to Özil, a touch from Welbeck and Koscielny puts it over the line. GOAL! 3-3 after 70 minutes.


Carroll with a foul on Gabriel that is called and Gabriel sticks out his leg and trips Carroll. Much fouls now from both sides. Welbeck then called back when West Ham lose the ball and Arsenal could counter but it was no foul. Ospina with a good save on a Payet shot. Monreal with a cross but the header from Giroud goes wide. Still 3-3 after 75 minutes.


Ospina with a needed save on a shot from Cresswel. Reid bundles the corner wide. Both teams playing end to end stuff now. Alexis almost with a shot but the last defender can stop him when he turned to shoot. Welbeck goes off and Theo comes in minute 81 for Welbeck. Alexis on the left flank now.


Arsenal throwing everything forward to win the match and West Ham on the counter. But both teams look tired and too many missed passes. Antoino gets a yellow card for a deliberate foul in the extra time.


3 minutes of extra time bring no more goals. A thrilling match in which once again too many referee decisions looked not what they should be. I wonder if the opinion makers will make a lot of fuss that the hattrick scorer should have been send off before he could complete his hattrick.







72 comments to West Ham – Arsenal 3-3

  • Menace

    PGMO win. They want their team to take the EPL & a lot of money to be won by the people in the know.

  • Rodelero

    Andy Carroll should have been sent off immediately (and then several times after that for his fouling). Though their goal was incorrectly disallowed, Carroll would have had the assist. Their three goals, therefore, plus the one some West Ham fans feel they were owed, were all illegitimate and all caused by one incredibly bad refereeing decision.

    In a game of seven goals, six were credited by the referee, three were scored by a player who shouldn’t have been on the pitch, one was scored by an offside player, and the one which was disallowed was assisted by a player who shouldn’t have been on the pitch.

  • Zedsaunt

    The Hatrick Hero, The man Of The Match, er er er… ”is lucky to still be on the pitch’… or so I thought I hear Howard Webb say, turning the volume up just at the moment I thought I heard these words said.

    Will Ray Hodgson dare risk Carroll for England? Licensed thuggery. If Carroll, because of the way he plays, is a liability playing for England, then how is he allowed a free rein in the EPL?

    Some great football from the lads in the first half, and a great fight back.

  • KR

    Might help if we marked him another 3 goals conceded. Happens to often. We are to easy to score against. No Cech why? As so many fans agree it’s time for change as groundhog day is getting boring. Top four for a competition we can not compete in. Stop your constant excuses check the table and be honest.

  • Col

    Season over – apart from the usual struggle to hold on to a top 4 place.

  • Al

    Carroll committed enough fouls to warrant 3 or 4 yellows, never mind the red card offence. This league is decided by a few people. In Africa we have a word for it; corrupt. Oh wait, this is England, so it can’t be corruption.

  • arwar

    the worst arsenal team in 20 years

  • Room28

    Can I just say, something has to give. Maybe we need a new club psychiatrist or something, because even I can see things coming and it seems to take the lads and the manager by surprise every time. They will tug shirts, they will kick the shit out of us, we won’t get the calls. Cue shock and awe.

    Also, they just didn’t seem up for it in the final minutes, both halves, completely different scenarios. Were they just phoning it in? Is it mental fragility? And where is the line between suffering injustices and persecution complex? FYI, these questions actually do keep me awake at night.

    Emotions are high now, obviously. In my defense, there’s a wide chasm between a glimmer of hope and an ice cube in hell.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Where were you in the last weeks?

  • arwar

    Should have been 5 3 to westham.
    We have the worst defenders and strikers in the top ten

  • akasuna

    Nice game for a top four finish. The Arsenal 4th Place Trophy is still on!! Come on Arsenal!!

  • Zedsaunt

    Usual whinging dingbats out in force. I pay good money for my ticket so I should have the trophy. That’s my right!

    And they call themselves football fans.

  • Room28

    Basking in the glory of a glimmer of hope.

    I can’t pinpoint what the problem is, but this match did take a lot out of all of us I feel. I think it felt like the climb and fall of the roller coaster.

  • omgarsenal

    WOW….. a hard won point against a very resilient and tough team battling to keep their home record intact. The aaa will soon be on here lamenting;

    1)Wenger didn’t buy Carroll when he had the chance,
    2)Wenger allowed 3 goals from the same player,
    3)Wenger is at fault for Ospina not stopping 3 goals from the same player…Cech would have won us the game etc.,etc.
    4)Our season is over, we WILL be relegated,
    5)Thanking the powers that be that we dropped points ,thus allowing them (aaa) to moan on.

    All true Gooners need to rally behind AFC and cheer them on,celebrate their valiant efforts and pump them up with unconditional support right to the end! Anything less is defeatism and treachery!

  • omgarsenal

    Walter & Tony……I presume you realize that one person can repeatedly return on here and repeatedly click the dislike or like buttons many times. Obviously the aaa have figured that out and are inflating the responses. By the way Akasunaaa and Aaarwar….where are you guys when we win? Wait, I know…on LeGrovel, hiding behind their masthead! Little turds like you and the rest of the aaa bowel movement don’t deserve to be called supports or fans…..go back to your cesspool.

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    Just once it would be nice to only have to play against the opposition players rather than the PGMO as well.

  • fabrechenko

    without disregarding the efforts put in by the team a lot still needs to be said about this game, yeah, the ref made some mistakes but some of them were in our favor, like was it the ref’s fault that sanchez didn’t shoot when he had the chance instead he tried to buy what everyone knows is for sale to us, great effort by the lads once again but the team needs to have a meeting within themselves, it’s high time some of them started repaying the faith put in them by the manager.

  • GoingGoingGooner

    A bit disappointing that we couldn’t defend those headers…Having said that, Carrol should have been sent off. Loved Welbeck’s movement and Iwobi’s presence of mind on Alexis’ goal. Have to say that the title is probably a bridge too far now.

  • Rich

    Ah, remember that lame red for Giroud against fulham those years back. Almost in slow motion, he got someone on the ankle. No danger, no viciousness. No defence from commentators- unanimous red- despite it being about half the offence from Carrol.

    It’s all bollocks. Defending crosses was v poor, lucky with offside, but none of it matters after a ref ignored clear red he would certainly have given were it us who did it, then a definite second yellow which he obviously had great view of,too.

    Refs have no hesitation producing red for us in big games if given half a chance, no matter what time in game. 10 mins. 20, 40, 50. they get the chance and it’s red almost every time.

    Buckle up for the crap now folks or do yourself a favour and take a few days off.

  • fabrechenko

    line 12 should read ‘is not for sale’

  • John

    Omg arsenal
    All true Gooners need to rally behind AFC and cheer them on,celebrate their valiant efforts and pump them up with unconditional support right to the end! Anything less is defeatism and treachery!
    And what do we do at the end of the season?? Pat ourselves on the back and say unlucky arsenal ,unlucky wenger, if it wasnt for those cheating referees we would be champions .Look at how much money we have in the bank we are the true moral winners.Next season will be different but we all know deep down it wont.We will see the same again.

  • bjtgooner

    Credit to the players who fought really hard to try & win the match while having the crap kicked out of them by a disgusting group of thugs, all with the connivance of the incompetent PGMO.

    Looking carefully at Pawson, he does look like someone that is unhappy that he has had to submit to pressure from an incompetent and arrogant “elite” body.

    The WH team should be ashamed of themselves.

  • gouresh

    What could opsinia do when the marking was so poor. It was a tactic they would apply. Either long ball or crosses. How many times did they get a chance to cross, without anyone closing down? How can u leave their best header free in the box? Anyway the boys put a spirited performance, if only Alexis has used his left foot rather than trying to cut back. That’s why I always tell my team, use both feet. Oh well, hope we keep the momentum til the last game.

  • para

    One rule in football: If the opposition does not have the ball they cannot score.

    When we are 2 goals up and relax the opposition always scores. We seem to say “ok, it’s your chance now” and in that moment we defend not too good.

    Anyway, no point dreaming about a PL title, have a feeling it’s all a plan to let Spuds win it. Leicester is a decoy. 🙂

  • dats

    After the final whistle the TV cameras showed the Arsenal crowd with their sickening banners. On looking at the white banner there appears to be someone moving across to try to pull the banner down. This appears to me to be a very similar shot to that shown at a previous match.
    Surely BT Sprout would not put in old footage to mislead and enhance their own anti-Wenger agenda ……Would they????

  • Rodelero


    Whether you like it or not, many people on this site believe that the referees are not only bad at their jobs but that some are seriously biased against Arsenal. Some may believe (based on mounting evidence) that there is something even deeper going on. Given that they believe this, it’s surely not hard to understand why:

    1) They support Arsenal when they feel they’ve been screwed over

    2) They feel Arsenal should be at the top of the Premier League or very close, rather than ten points off the lead.

    It isn’t delusional to add West Ham to the list of games where the majority of major decisions have gone against us, it isn’t delusional to say that Arsenal came up against poor refereeing* against Barcelona, West Ham, Watford, Everton, Hull, Leicester, Tottenham, Swansea and Tottenham (and that is only going back as far as the Leicester game).

    *denied a penalty which should have been given, had a penalty given against which shouldn’t have been, conceded a goal with a foul in the buildup, had players not sent off when they should have been

    That’s six of the last seven Premier League games, seven of the last ten games in England, and eight of the last twelve matches we’ve played. There is not a single match in this period where we got a better result than we deserved. That’s not to say there aren’t a small number of significant decisions that went our way, just that they are dwarfed by the decisions that go against us.

    If you look back at Leicester’s recent games you will see the precise opposite. I’ve not watched every match, but against Arsenal, West Brom, Newcastle and Southampton they had major incorrect decisions go their way which not only meant they got wins which would probably have been draws or losses. They also escaped what should have been match bans for Drinkwater (3), Fuchs (3), and Morgan (1). That is four of their last seven games.

    What hurts is Arsenal are better than Leicester, by some distance. Our results haven’t been great this year but a lot of our bad results (by no means all) have been at the hands of referees. We’ve beaten them twice, in one game comfortably and in the other game we won, just, because the referee seemed desperate to help them out. I’m especially disappointed this year because I believe we HAVE performed well enough to at the very least be vying for the title, and because I am convinced Leicester are not nearly good enough to be in the position they are in right now.

  • Polo

    WOBs are fully out in force, they are in celebration that we didn’t win it seem. Even though we didn’t win but the match was a good match, both team went at it. Disappointing that we lost but West Ham did well exploiting our weakness in the air, and we exploit theirs with our pace and skills. It is good to see we are scoring again.

    Why can’t some people just enjoy watching football? So many negative people in this world.

  • Col

    I presume it must be the referee’s fault that Arsenal can’t defend.

  • SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin

    I’ve not given up on Arsenal winning the title until Leicester have won 3 games or collected 9 points from their last 6 matches. And Arsenal dropped points again in their remaining 6 matches. Then, would I give up on Arsenal winning the title this season.

    Welbeck should not have started this match but Walcott. And Campbell should have been on the bench to be brought on for Alexis when he was due to come off.

    The Boss took off his entire defensive base of, Elneny and Coquelin to bring on Ramsey and Giroud which I consider to be a desperate wrong substitutions.

    The correct Arsenal starts who the Boss should have started to win this match were the starts and bench which I posted in my comment on this website early in the morning today. But the Boss would have none of that.

  • Notoverthehill

    Walter, a 101 dislikes is out of order!

    If people cannot enjoy a good game of football, then they should switch to tinkly winks.

    I wupport the Arsenal, now let us have 666 dislikes? Come on, let us be having you.

  • Notoverthehill

    I support the Arsenal. Full stop.

  • hrishi

    Oh my.. Not this one too!

    This draw is not on the ref..

    West Ham were unlucky not to be a goal up- it wasn’t even close to being offside. Some people might have a defence for that- Carroll, who was involved in the build-up, shouldn’t have been on the pitch. Come on guys, what he did to Koscielny was rash and totally unnecessary, but it wasn’t a red card offence. And he didn’t elbow Gabriel either, it was the forearm that hit Gabriel’s face- and the forearm was where you would expect it to be, if he was trying to jump- which he was. I don’t know if he was involved in any other possible second-yellow fouls.

    And the Ozil goal, that was probably millimetres offside too. Reminds me of the goal he scored at Spurs last year.

    Those were big decisions in our favour- one of which was certainly wrong.

    Well yes, those calls were made by the linesman, but do we take that view when being harsh on referees?

    West Ham did well to come back into it- and so did we, later in the game. It was a good game that had both sides trying their very best to win. Don’t tarnish every game with the same brush- doing so only undermines correct and honest appraisals of games where we have actually been unlucky.

  • nicky

    Rather a lot of paranoia about this afternoon, after a pulsating battle against yet another match official “who has got it in for us”.
    I’m afraid until the day when video technology and an appeals system is surely introduced, Arsenal FC will have to accept the supreme difficulty of winning against XI plus 1.

  • goonersince72

    Don’t want to hear a word from the WOB. The player selection was correct and the tactics as well. They did seem to switch off at 0-2. And it seemed from the tv broadcast that AW stayed on the touchline and was not defending for any of the goals, lol. I stated in an earlier post the referee was appalling, especially not sending off Carroll for a studs up tackle. Just terrible. However if Arsenal defend any of the 3 crosses they overcome the shite ref and win. I know Gabriel deflected two but it was a mess back there, especially on the corners. We know what Arsenal get from the refs and still seem to expect a different result. Remember what Einstein said about that. And I don’t want to hear about lack of character or mentality. Coming back to equalise after the way they were pegged back showed real grit and heart. Just bad defending on the day, leave it at that.

    PS To the assholes who hit the dislike button 107 times on omgarsenal’s post – GROW THE FUCK UP OR BE GONE

    Tony Attwood, can you do something about this? Please?

  • Tom

    This was a very entertaining game of football and quite enjoyable if you have come to terms with the fact that Arsenal are, and have been out of the title challenge for weeks now.

    Arsenal looked like scoring every time they went forward, but also they looked like conceding every time West Ham went forward.

    In the end , probably a fair result.

    For posters complaining about refereeing after this game – just a few talking points:

    West Ham have two goals disallowed , one for off-side that was at least a yard and a half on.

    Arsenal first goal is from an off-side position by a few inches, but the referee still cost us the game?

    What cost us the game was naive defending against on of the most dangerous headers of the ball in the league.

    Three balls into the area about six yards out , and three different defenders are marking , and I use this term loosely , the towering figure of Andy Carol without as much as putting an arm on the West Ham player.

    For first and third goal ,it’s Monreal and Bellerin, both giving away about twelve inches in height. For the second,it’s Gabriel , who gives Carrol about as much time to chest the ball ,as if the play took place in the middle of the park and not in a crowded penalty area.

    Arsene Wenger said he didn’t expect Carrol to start the game , but surely once he saw the West Ham team sheet, a thought or two must have crossed his mind about delegating someone to pay special attention to him.

    Maybe not right away then, but after the first or second goal, like perhaps during a half time speech……………,maybe not.

    Arsenal are a naive team because Arsenal don’t do simple attention to detail most of the time. Yes, Arsenal play zonal marking on defense, but you can’t have a situation when the tallest and the most dangerous header of the ball is marked by two shortest defenders – a terrible oversight by someone, probably Arsene Wenger.

  • Rodelero


    Your view of Carroll’s tackle on Koscielny is completely pivotal to everything else about the game. If Carroll goes off, they don’t score the disallowed goal, they don’t score any of their three allowed goals. As for whether it’s a red:

    1) He lunges in from the air
    2) It’s from behind
    3) His studs are up
    4) Makes contact with Koscielny’s ankle (you know that really vulnerable bit that isn’t remotely protected)

    If Carroll did deserve a red, and it’s my contention (and seemingly a lot of people’s contention) that he did, then we definitely got screwed in this game, even if we were lucky as well. It’s very rare that a red card matters as much as this one ended up mattering, but in truth, Carroll was pretty much integral to everything they did today, good and bad. Had the referee had the guts to send him off, the game would have gone very differently and it’s very hard to see how we wouldn’t have won.

  • Polo

    The pundits on my broadcast believe Andy was very lucky not to get a red. Although the decision did affect the game and result, but the main problem is our weakness defending against high balls. It’s something we need to correct.

    @Tom, if AW played Per and if WHU scored from pace not air, which they have been doing throughout the season, you would have said AW should have played pacey defenders, it’s easy to comment in hindsight though. I seem to remember a lot of WOBs say they don’t ever want to see Per to play again.

  • Tom

    You seem to have misread my post.
    I thought Wenger’s team selection was good, no problem there.
    Not paying a close attention to a player, Bilic and others call the best header of the ball in the PL since Drogba, was the problem.

    If you think Monreal or Bellerin can effectively mark Carrol six yards from goal, then perhaps we should be discussing other things and not football.

    I do appreciate your efforts to read my mind though 🙂

    And I’m not a WOB btw, which must be very confusing to you I suppose.
    I mean not wanting Wenger out and criticising him for tactical set up ?
    What’s that all about?

  • dan

    Anyone who didn’t watch the game is only talking out of their arse, even when we went behind I knew we wouldn’t lose.

  • dan

    Carroll is a big Fucking turd, any muppet arguing he shouldn’t be sent off or the goal should of stood are Fucking blind.

  • Tom

    It would help if you used context within which events transpired during the game.

    Firstly, there was no way Craig Pawson sends Carrol off for challenge on Koscielny only a week after Clattenburg’s Kouyate sending off was overturned by the league.

    Once Pawson realized during half time( and make no mistake about it, they do check their decisions at half time) the WHam goal was wrongfully disallowed and Arsenal’s was marginally off-side, that gave Carrol at least an extra foul or two of leeway.
    He wasn’t going to be sent off for two bookable offenses, not after both Bilic and WHam owner , David Gold , spoke about refereeing decisions going against them just a few days prior.

    Btw, what a refreshing turn of events having an owner speak out on club’s behalf against the league or referees. Arsenal fans can only dream about having that from our owner or chairman.

    Also, no neutral observer thought Carrol should’ve been sent off, and if you visit any of the pro WHam sites, they all think they got hard done by.

  • Polo

    @ Tom, an apology if I misread your comment because I took the below to mean AW didn’t know his team selection.
    ‘ Arsene Wenger said he didn’t expect Carrol to start the game , but surely once he saw the West Ham team sheet, a thought or two must have crossed his mind about delegating someone to pay special attention to him.

    Maybe not right away then, but after the first or second goal, like perhaps during a half time speech……………,maybe not.’

    It was an entertaining match and I agree with you a draw is a fair result even though I’m disappointed it wasn’t a win especially after having 2-0 lead and then conceeding 3 goals in quick succession.

  • Rodelero


    You are making a great deal of assumptions about the why behind the decisions that went against us. No-one can prove you wrong, of course, but unless you can read Craig Pawson’s mind, all you’re doing is asserting things which you can’t possible know to be true.

    Two wrongs do not make a right. If West Ham really did receive favourable refereeing from Pawson today because West Ham have been pressuring the referees, it’s a complete disgrace, mainly because it’s ended up punishing a team who have been on the wrong end of so many decisions that it can scarcely be believed.

    Finally, your last comment about “no neutral observer” is quite blatantly untrue, not just in the pedantic sense that some neutral observer did, but that, in fact, quite a few neutral observers did indeed think that Andy Carroll’s lunge, from behind, with studs up, that connected to the back of Koscielny’s ankle was a red card. If there’s a genuinely neutral pundit who thought that Andy Carroll should have been on the pitch by the end of the game, given his various offences, then I’d like to call them out as being about as neutral as sulphuric acid.

  • Yes here we go more so called Arsenal supporters mouthing off after a draw but never on this site when the team win. Do all of us a favour and go support another team because you sure as hell don’t support this one and you all enjoy when we draw or get beaten but can’t see with your own eyes what is going on.
    Take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself and you mates did you get fully behind this team this season at every home game because the abuse I heard at a lot of the matches was absolutely disgusting. Do you really think that these players will want to give it their all when they are being called every name under the sun.
    When you point the finger at Wenger do a turn about and look at yourselves with those infantile banners which do no one any good and only sever’s to make other supporters laugh at the club you claim to follow.
    Go on your anti Arsenal sites and crow till the cows come home as I’m sure you love to see this side beaten. I was taught the meaning of loyalty by my father, he told me when you follow a team you have to follow them win lose or draw. There is no in between, I’m damn proud to call myself a Gooner and always will be no matter the score line and every man who puts on that shirt with the cannon proudly showing will always have my full support as will that man who loves this club more than those who seek to damage it and who has had to put up with personal abuse yet he still stands head and shoulders above any of her supporters because he truly loves this club.

  • Polo

    Well said Linda, I totally agree with your comment.

  • Josif

    To blame the ref for the draw in a game in which we had had a two goal lead thanks to the fact our opponents had a good goal chalked off at 0:0 and our first goal was perhaps offside (I still haven’t seen a good replay of it) – two big calls going our way – is not an honest supporting. Maybe I act too much as a lawyer and opt for focusing on the strong and provable facts rather than being a boy who cried wolf but I believe that’s my strength, not a flaw.

    Also, I will repeat it again: as long as Stan Kroenke accepts his role as the silencer on Mike Riley’s gun pointed at Arsenal’s knees, we are powerless to change anything. The club has to make a strong reaction or all the work of Untold Arsenal will stay…untold.

    Back to today’s game.

    West Ham created 16 chances to our ten. Andy Carroll had the same number of attempts as our whole team and the same conversion rate (3 out of 10). Mertesacker and Chambers were sitting on the bench for 90 minutes even if our defence was completely out of shape. If they can’t be relied on, then let’s buy a world-class defender next summer to replace the 32-year-old Mertesacker.

    When it comes to strikers, as I have said right after the game, it’s obvious (and Untold Arsenal have agreed with me in their analysis of our possible summer transfer targets published a few weeks ago or so) that we need a top striker. It’s provable by stats that Giroud is not the one and neither is Theo. Danny, as Mr Wenger has already admitted, needs to work on his finishing and composure which is a problem given that’s exactly what Arsenal have been missing since Robin van Persie’s transfer from P(otential) A(rsenal) L(egends) to C(uriously) U(nsatisfied) N(orth-bound) T(raitors).

    Our title bid is over as I can’t see both Leicester and Spuds falling below 77 points that we might collect provided that we win all our matches until the end. Manchester City are two points behind us and we have to pay them a visit in the penultimate match of the season.

  • Rodelero

    @Josif: All of what you’re saying is entirely reasonable if you believe Andy Carroll should have been on the pitch. Remove that… and suddenly it all becomes extremely irrelevant. Andy Carroll assisted their wrongly disallowed goal, and scored their other three. It is exceptionally obvious that the game would have been completely different if he had been sent off.

    Obviously, we capitulated from being two goals ahead, and that is on our players. We should have defended better, and the referee did not cause us to lose our lead. However, for a referee to leave Carroll on the field after his tackle should very much have been on a “one more, and you’re gone” basis. Carroll was hardly innocent after that point. He was involved in numerous fouls and, of course, the elbow incident, which had yellow card written all over it. If I remember correctly, that happened before he scored his third goal.

    It’s galling, in a year where so, so many things have gone against us, to concede not one goal, not two goals, but three goals to a player who, I think, should have been sent off in the fifth minute for violent conduct. The ultimate point is this – his tackle was completely reckless, basically unnecessary, not remotely near the ball, and clearly dangerous. It was pretty obvious a major decision at the time, but it ended up being completely pivotal.

    So, did the referee cause Arsenal to capitulate from 2-0 up? No, definitely not, and Arsenal can thank the linesman they were up 2-0 in the first place. Having said that, West Ham would almost certainly have got 0 points out of the game with good refereeing. If you think this stance is dishonest… well, I guess I’m dishonest.

  • Tom


    All right , I’ll bite, so who are those neutral observers who thought Carrol’s challange on Kos was a straight red.

    Are they ex footballers and referees? I’m curious.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Certainly seems that way with Kroenke and the board Josif. Though I suspect they may have something more to say if refereeing was costing a European place and the rewards that go with it.
    Not saying the refereeing actually cost us this game, though how Carroll stayed on the pitch…..well, let’s,face,it, we all know. It seems the refs are getting more and more lenient on,physical teams, and unless Wenger maybe adapts a bit and finds ways to counter it, his team will be in a bit of an uphill battle when not at their very best.
    We do need to work on some defensive issues, I an not going to place blame individuals, but poor defending has cost us points this season relative to others. Whether this means replacements, getting those we already have up to speed, or work on the training pitch is something for the manager.
    But ultimately, May is the time to assess what went right, and what went wrong, for now, all we can do is back the team, there is a lot to play for .
    Whatever the rights and wrongs, that was a very entertaining game….against a team with a good home record…just not , ultimately, a rewarding one.

  • colario

    Having just clicked the ‘like button’ on 3 posts, I am curious to know if our clicks can be identified.

    I appreciate it when I see that someone has clicked ‘the like’ button on or should it be at a post of mine,

    Its nice to know someone has agrees or disagrees with you.

    We posted with out this facility before and unless a way can be found to stop the obvious abuse of the facility I think may be it should be abandoned.

    Those responsible for clicking up the 100’s of ‘dislikes’ should know that they are telling us that their brain is in their mouse.

    Their clicking the dislike button doesn’t hide the fact that there is only a few of them clicking that button.

  • colario

    My apologies for my grammar mistakes. Ouch.

  • Rich

    Tom, do you imagine there’s been a challenge on us in the last decade you’d find rival supporters saying their man should have been sent off for?

    They’ll barely have it when a leg gets broken and someone is out for a year.

    I can’t blame them that much, because not only is it a natural thing to want to defend your team, the utterly warped media coverage of the last ten years plus towards us, and the rubbish quality of football journalism and punditry in general, makes it nigh on inevitable that opposition fans will struggle to ever see any challenge from their players on us as a red.

    Cahill, Drinkwater, etc. Each future one being helped along by the absence of any furore or condemnation of the like for the Flamini challenge, which couldn’t possibly hurt anyone

    British refereeing is bound to distort the British public’s view of what constitutes a red. Mind, they’d know well enough that a player couldn’t possibly do that on international duty or in the champions league.

    If you like, it definitely wasn’t a red, not an (against) Arsenal red.

    What would you think if Giroud put in tackle like that ten minutes into a game and was promptly sent off? That he was an idiot and couldn’t blame anyone but himself, or that he was the victim of a poor, harsh decision?

    And if he did get away with it, what about when he then gives someone a solid forearm to the face right in front of the ref?

    We wouldn’t be able to move here for WOBS rejoicing in the proof of his idiocy and deserved punishment (though repeatedly liking their own posts might confuse matters a bit)

    I won’t feel sorry at all for Carroll next time his body breaks down. All his ankle woes and he was happy to smash someone’s ankle like that, coward fashion, from behind.

  • Rodelero

    Given how many people were saying our first goal was offside, I kind of assumed it was despite there not being a great angle. Well, it looks like it’s actually onside:

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    Sorry but to me that picture looks to show that Özil is perhaps3cm in front of the defender. Close enough for benefit of the doubt to be given to the attacker.

    The key decision was in the fifth minute. In my opinion that should have been a straight red card and that would have totally changed the game. It wasn’t as obvious a red card as the one that was rescinded from last weekend and I’m sure that might have been on the mind of the referee. Absolutely no excuse for not giving the second yellow card for the elbow to Gabriel.

    On the Continent last weeks red would never have been rescinded and today’s would have been given.

  • Pat

    Two retired English referees expressed their concern about last week’s red card being rescinded because they said that would encourage more dangerous play. Looks like they were right.

  • Pat

    Somebody asked what neutral thought Carroll should have been sent off for the foul five minutes in. According to Walter’s report, his commentator thought so.

  • Gooneress No1

    Well said Linda.

  • para

    We’ve lost the killer instinct to finish off teams and then have an easy game. We insist on being “fair” and let them play.

    When are we going to learn?

    Oh when?

  • omgarsenal

    John,your arguments are pointless and irrelevant….I don’t understand why you waste your time here…….Go support a website that shits all over Wenger ceaselessly,like you do and laments our money in the bank, without any rational arguments to support your case. I’m not going to waste my time on an aaa WOB who will never support Arsenal unless the Club fits into his narrowly defined parameters.

  • Polo

    @Tom, The Telegraph live match commentator believe it’s a red card and also The Daily Mail live match commentator think it was a red card also, that’s two just from google but I’m sure there will be more. I think they would be regarded as ‘neutrals’.

  • Polo

    @Tom, Fox also think it was a red card.

  • fabrechenko

    yeah! it should have been a red but he wasn’t dismissed tho it appears the players mentally dismissed him from the field resulting to the non-existant marking of caroll, but please, lets stop blaming wenger for yesterday’s game, our players are profesionals and they should be held responsible for whatever mistakes they make on the field.

  • Col

    Judging by a few reactions on here, anyone who doesn’t buy into this paranoid refereeing conspiracy theory is an ‘aaa’. I don’t think Wenger should be sacked, retired or whatever, but he is not infallible, and to blame every single bad thing that happens to this team on referees is as shallow and delusional as blaming it all on Wenger. West Ham had good reason to feel aggrieved as well. There is a problem with referees in this country, undoubtedly, but it is more down to incompetence and inconsistency than a conspiracy to stop Arsenal winning things.

  • Zedsaunt

    West Ham had decisions against them, no argument, but this is not about the ref’s incompetence – it is about his decision to keep Carroll on the field. This came up after five miutes, and at intervals thereafter.

  • Rich

    Col, for the record i don’t even nearly blame everything that goes wrong on the refs.

    I can understand why I might give that impression. My strongest passions tend to only be in evidence, here, on the ref issues, but I also think about, and more often than not mention the rest of it, albeit briefly.

    Yesterday, for instance, after the match and before getting really stuck into the ref I said ,’Defending crosses was v poor, lucky with offside’

    It was a huge deal, how badly we dealt with crosses, so i suppose it might be helpful to try explain why I don’t go on about that in depth,too.

    In terms of yesterday’s match, there’s a specific good reason not to, as if it was a red, as i believe, we’d almost certainly have won comfortably and had no issue with crosses on the day.

    This same thing applies to many many other days when we don’t get key decisions (reds, pens, free-kicks, for and against) : the game which unfolds would be different one in those cases and one where our chance of a good result would be a bit or a lot better.

    But that alone doesn’t explain my attitude. In part it’s a case of one anger dominating another.

    My anger with our diabolical treatment from referees is so much greater than any disappointment I am likely to feel about an aspect of our play on the day that should ; then, some new instance occurs which I feel is yet another example of a wrong decision costing us immensely; that new instance, as well as making me feel however it does in its own right, is added to all the old anger…and off I go. Furious, disgusted, fed up.

    Yesterday’s was not a diabolically bad decision; instead it was an example of a huge call going against us, which I then naturally add to our record on those matters, and that’s where things look diabolical

    To further give the impression I try pin it all on refs, I might be drawn back in to say more on them when someone disputes their impact.

    So that’s one person’s honest account for you of how it can be that someone who by no means puts everything on poor refereeing talks about them an awful lot and barely mentions the team’s mistakes or shortcomings.

    It’s not the whole truth,though. Maybe it barely explains why I don’t still talk about our faults or weaknesses as well. Partly that’s because they are more dispiriting to me than a cause for true anger; and anger being the stronger emotion, it invariably wins and determines what I talk about.

    Partly it’s because my posts are already too bloody long and I can’t say everything I feel about the match.

    It comes down to trust in that respect. I don’t imagine Tony, Walter or anyone else not being dismayed by some poor play on our part, so I find it easy to decide they feel it,too, and for whatever reason, perhaps similar ones to mine, don’t need to spell it out nor talk about it at length.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Apparently the former England great Danny Mills was of the opinion that that Carrol’s forearm smash to Koscielny’s teeth was ok and not at all a bookable offence.
    And that those former Hammers ‘ greats like Billy Bonds would just take it in their stride as being normal in their day !

  • Zedsaunt

    You gotta laugh. England haven’t won anything as a national team since 1966. Why?

  • Rich

    Col and others who think we shouldn’t go on about Carroll’s challenge, worth looking at these images.

    Carrol’s action looks remarkably similar to that other English oaf Taylor ion the day that fucked a title bid of ours and did great damage to a player’s career.

    Huge man, no interest in ball, looking to hit a player hard.

    Koscielny seems to be saved from a very bad injury purely because it happens the connection wasn’t quite right and his leg happened to have somewhere to go, whereas poor Eduardo’s was pinned. Taylor is no more guilty in intent; nor Carroll any more innocent.

    It would have followed the pattern exactly of all the worst offences : total uninterest in playing the ball; total interest in hitting an exposed limb or joint with force; no control whatsoever and no interest in health of opponent. Always a red. Does your blood not boil at what we have suffered and lost as a result of those challenges and injuries?

    Similar time into the game I believe, and Cahill’s too was very early last year. I doubt that is a coincidence. Surely it is a result of players. invariably English, entering the field primed to hit us very hard in the early minutes. Just last week I heard the plan of the twerp Carlton Palmer first time he faced Henry was to ‘put six studs through him’ at the first chance.

    The obvious job of referees is to find that abhorrent and clamp down on it in games and, by doing so, reduce the likelihood of people trying it. Their failure is total.

    Amazingly, Carrol’s challenge was worse in some respects, and in a way a more dangerous one, because after half-pinning the ankle with one foot he smashes into it with the other.

    Our likelihood of Eduardo or Ramsey injuries would drop if referees correctly judged how bad and dangerous a challenge is without the requirement of bones to actually be broken. The rules state that is exactly what they should do : they do so poorly and inconsistently in the league as a whole, and with us they do so wretchedly.

    It keeps the chance of one of those injuries so much higher than it should ever be and also leads to a lack of justice, as with yesterday.

  • DavidHillier'sSuitcase

    I am afraid the days of supporting your team win lose or draw and remaining tight lipped on issues that disturbed you,disappeared when the cost of watching the team you love,became inhibatitive.I used to pay £1 to get in,arrived one hour before the start of the game,sing my heart out for club I love and support,win lose or draw.Those days are gone,largely because we are now treated as customers,not fans by The Arsenal.It was Arsenal FC who raised prices so high that they stopped people attending matches,after going for years,so maybe your accusations about broken loyalties should be directed towards our Owner and Board.”Go support another team”,is not an option as once you fall in love with The Arsenal,supporting another team is unthinkable,so how could someone,who claims to know the feelings of a true fan,realistically present that as an option? What you are suggesting is “pay up and shut up”.That is not a viable option as a lot of loyal supporters feel like customers now and customers have the right to complain about the product they are investing in.

  • The price of watching football went up in all clubs at the same time, as wages went up. If the clubs had, or ever did, vote to limit salaries the prices could be lowered, but without that there is no chance. That is the fault of all clubs in not controlling wages, not just the fault of Arsenal

  • Col

    My personal theory on refereeing is that Arsenal are set up more like a continental team – i.e. small, mobile players, quick feet, but referees in this country have the mindset for old-fashioned British ‘cloggers’. Arsenal look like they are on the rough end of things these days, but it was not that long ago that the famous back 4 + Vieira and one or 2 others (e.g. Denis B.) could mix it with the best of them. In those days Arsenal were regarded as a dirty team, not a lightweight team. They had more sendings off / bookings etc – and they also had the mentality to win things. I don’t think that is really there any more, cup wins notwithstanding. Wenger is a purist, an idealist – he always has been. That is very creditable, but it does mean he and Arsenal are fighting against the flow.