If you love Arsenal, be careful what you wish for


By Blacksheep

Yesterday’s disappointing draw – disappointing mainly because we seemingly threw away a 2 goal lead by allowing a clod hopper like Andy Carroll to score a hat-rick – led to the display of 2 banners at the Boleyn Ground.

One read:

Love Arsenal / Hate Kroenke

and the other (sadly) had the words:

Every good thing has an ending / au revoir Arsene

 I, like Tony, am a season ticket holder at Arsenal and I’ve hardly missed a game all campaign. I’ve experienced the highs (beating United for example) and the lows (collapsing to Anderlecht in particular) and whilst I’m not by nature a quitter last week’s defeat of an otherwise engaged Watford didn’t convince me that the league title was anything more than a very outside possibility.

I suppose I’d decided just to enjoy the final few games and hope that results went our way. They still might, that point might make all the difference but I personally doubt it.

So I understand the frustration that my fellow Gooners are feeling right now; even fiercely loyal fans like Tony, Walter, Andrew and I can feel like the team/club/manager has let us down or blown a great chance.

It hurts. I get that.

Sometimes I look at our defending as a team and ask ‘who coaches this?’ or ‘does ANYONE have a clue what is going on?’

This is a perfectly normal reaction to watching your team go from world-beaters to also-rans in the space of 10 crazy minutes. But I don’t really understand why you take a banner to a game that demonstrates that you don’t want the current manager to stay. I can’t really see how that helps anyone.

Not the team, or the manager, or the club.

Maybe it is time for Arsenal to part company with the most successful manager we have ever had. I’m not blinkered and despite being a massive fan of Arsene Wenger I don’t consider myself to be an AKB (Arsene Knows Best). Untold’s banner on permanent display at the Emirates was my idea but whilst it has Wenger’s profile on it and his words the sentiments hold true whoever is manager of the club I support.


Football should be an art – it should be beautiful and entertaining to watch. Wenger’s philosophy has given me and countless others so much pleasure over the last 20 years.

But if it is time for him to move on who replaces him? This is the question I keep coming back to. Guardiola is going to Citeh, Klopp is at Liverpool!!, I don’t want someone like el Moanio at our great club because he would tarnish it. United have struggled to find a replacement for SAF, Sp*rs have finally uncovered a talent it seems but how many managers have they tried getting there? There just isn’t an obvious person who can come in and make all the changes that the WOB seem to think he will.

Of course Arsene will not be the Arsenal manager for ever, he is even older than Tony and the man (AW not Tony) needs a rest. But chucking him out now will be a disaster for out club and for our team. Mark my words.

The transition has to be managed very well and I think Arsenal must know that. Kroenke might be the titular head of the club but does he run it? Ivan Gazidis knows football and I hope he is looking to secure the succession, whether that is today, in the summer or in 3 years time.

So ditch that banner chaps, and support the players for the next few weeks – who knows what miracles might happen!

I have more understanding of the other banner (although I think it is a tad pointless nevertheless). Stan Kroenke is a very rich businessman who may care something for his investment but will never love Arsenal like we do. No owner is like that, not ‘silent’ Stan, Abramovich, Lerner, or the sheiks. If Tony and I bought Arsenal we’d be different but that ain’t going to happen.

Football is a multi-million dollar industry, especially at the elite end where AFC operate. Mere mortals like us can’t influence men like Kroenke any more than Cnut could prevent the tide from coming in.

So while I understand and largely share the feelings of those who want Kroenke out I wonder again just who we would replace him with? Usmanov? no thanks. Mike Ashley? no way. An Arab consortium? No on your nelly.

In short whoever we get would not be ‘an Arsenal man’ and without a manager as fundamentally hard wired into this ethos of this club as the present incumbent I fear that we might become as soulless and corporate as Chavski, Citeh or any number of once great football clubs.

So Arsene is more than Arsenal’s manager for me; he is the last remaining link with Highbury and what this club represents. If he goes I think we are in for a rocky ride and uncertain future. If however, he stays and smooths the transition for the new guard (no pun but Remy anyone?) then I’d feel more comfortable.

Anyway folks, be careful what you wish for…


Recent Posts

From the anniversary files (today’s full index is on the home page with a link to the complete index of 5000 events in the club’s history)

  • 10 April 1979: Arsenal 1 Tottenham 0.  53,896 saw Stapleton score. But in the remaining seven matches Arsenal had only one more win… 5-2 against Chelsea.
  • 10 April 2011: Jens Lehmann played against Blackpool after Almunia was injured in the warm up.  It was his 200th Arsenal game, and he had been brought in as an emergency sub while doing his coaching badges.

Untold Arsenal has published five books on Arsenal – all are available as paperback and three are now available on Kindle.  The books are

  • The Arsenal Yankee by Danny Karbassiyoon with a foreword by Arsene Wenger.
  • Arsenal: the long sleep 1953 – 1970; a view from the terrace.  By John Sowman with an introduction by Bob Wilson.
  • Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football.  By Tony Attwood, Andy Kelly and Mark Andrews.
  • Making the Arsenal: a novel by Tony Attwood.
  • The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal by Mark Andrews.

You can find details of all five on our new Arsenal Books page

94 Replies to “If you love Arsenal, be careful what you wish for”

  1. He needs to leave as soon as possible.
    We have had enough thank you.
    Each and every year he comes with the same dissapointments.
    Its time to move on and let the past remain in the past.
    Giving someone 20 years doing such a job and earning such money is not right at all.
    We need to force this change.

  2. Blacksheep
    Unable to get your point.First you write wenger is done and should leave. In the end you twist and leave us with a questio n mark that who should Arsenal hire to replace Wenger.

    Initially i dont think Arsenal are doing bad. Afterall they are 3rd in the league 17 places above other rivals even ahead of bigger clubs like United City Liverpool Chelsea.Also considering the fact that how many point were robbed by poor decision by the refs.
    Also if you see the matches you can see the boys putting up the fight.Playing attaractive football which we all love to see despite of the result.

    I think Wenger is doing a good job. Everyone can see the progress we have made in the last 2/3 years.Winning 2 back to back trophies is an ample proof that PL sucess is around the corner.Mistakes bad luck poor ref every thing is part of the game.Lets back the team in thick and thin and hope for the best.

  3. A thoughtful and well articulated posting. Despite it all, I do believe the time has come for change at Arsenal. Fresh ideas from a fresh rising Manager. Can’t live in fear of “careful what you wish for”. That’s not what life is about. Still, a good posting, Blacksheep.

  4. seriously, i don’t gerrit, those banners are as sickening as they are dumb, it’s not as if the fans were the only ones who felt bad after the game, the players and the technical crew will obviously feel worse in the sense that they didnt just let the fans down but themselves too, seeing that banner would definitely serve more harm than good. most fans have emotional investment with the club so it’s okay for us to have expectations for our darling club and it’s also okay to feel somewhat disappointed if those expectations are’nt met and this does’nt warrant the kind of reactions potrayed by some sections of our fans, yes, we all love arsenal(please indicate if you don’t), this doesn’t mean we don’t have other lives to live. it’s high time we learn’t how to handle disappointments, there’s more to life than just Arsenal.

  5. A fair article for this site. The banners are an expression, an opinion which is allowed at away games! Your article is blown apart by the owner issue, I am a season ticket holder as well and the club is as corporate, as expensive, as greedy as any club in the country. A new owner could only be as bad at worst and possibly a whole lot better. Sadly this is another of Wengers down falls, he totally supports our arrogant board which would appear to suggest he has sold out. The time for change has arrived hopefully it will be through out the club, we are just a money making machine for Kronke, fourth is for income not glory.

  6. @Blacksheep

    Excellent post. The thing is just because we support AW that doesn’t mean we that we don’t get disappointed at poor results and performances. We do. Personally, I wasn’t surprised at yesterday’s result, which after all was a draw. But it isn’t the end of the world. We still have today’s results to come. As for the banners; if we were in Aston Villa’s position I might understand but I don’t see how they help.

  7. An interesting article to be posted on this site. I think youre arguments are too narrow. Concentrating on whether Wenger is the man or not is too simplistic. He is the focal point of an organisation that has very clear business goals. Getting rid of him doesnt change anything. If you want change the model has to change and that isnt going to happen while you have Stan as the owner. Arsenal are but one of a portfolio of sports interests and their goals have to fit within his overall business remit ( I confess I dont know what that is bar making money). You also dont say why Usmanov or an Arab conglomerate would be worse. How do you know that ?

  8. A draw was the best result for the northern PMGOL as were the two previous wetspam games and so the result was delivered.

    In the ‘now’ we wonder why the club seems to be doing nothing about the corruption that at present rules football in England.

    Why doesn’t the club openly demand an ‘open shop’ PMGOL?

    What stops the club from banging the drum for the latest technology to be introduced into the game to aid the referee?

    In the long term, the question that has been raised here is: Who after Arsene?

    I believe Arsene will sign another 3 year contract and will then step down.

    During these final Arsene years, I think the club will decide who is best to take the reigns. Who ever they decide upon it will depend on the circumstance of the manager they want.

    The one certainty about the new manager is everyone but everyone who fuses reality football with fantasy football and think they are the same will know better than the club.

    For these ‘fantasy experts’ the club is always wrong.

    The real problem in football today is not Arsene, is not Arsenal but corruption from the top that organises football in England and world wide.

    The leaders of this corruption, use corruption, to pull the masses along in the same way a farmer/butcher using a butcher’s hook pulls the sheep. and the sheep follow not protesting, never thinking of what is really happening to them.

  9. Arwar,
    who are we? Are you his majesty? I thought normal people speak only for themselves. Unless you are appointed as the spokesman of a group?
    Or do you have a split personality and do all of your personalities agree with you. In that case you can use the we form of course.
    But next time do try to write “I” and not we.

    I speak for myself and I am not tired of Wenger.

  10. Sometimes we need to get worse to get better.
    I want Wenger OUT because for the last three or four years he had had money to spend and has not done enough.
    Secondly and the worst that has bothered me all the years is he has no tactical sense whatsoever. He has the same game plan whoever we meet. You do not win IF you dont adapt. So someone like Someone would be ideal.

  11. A very balanced article.
    I don’t want Wenger to leave…..and he is going nowhere until the end of his contract at the very least, but there are times when I wish he would just change a few things……defending yesterday was a case in point. The players were completely unprepared for Caroll, this should not happen at this level when challenging for a title. In hindsight, think Per maybe should have started yesterday.
    I don’t buy into the leadership debate, but there are times when organisation can be a bit better , or so it would seem. Injuries are another big, and recurring issue……the club seem unwilling or unable to take on the main cause of them…..the leniency of referees to dangerous tackles, and the club are clearly doing things behind the scenes, but it is dispiriting to see three long term injuries to key players which appeared as a result of poor warm ups. And I am not necessecerily blaming the manager for this, players have accountability.
    Kroenke is a bit of a red herring, that said , Idoubt many fans would be out on the streets in open celebration that he was buying their club. And his comments about not being in it to win championships help nobody, even if the context as reported may be slightly out from what he actually says.But as you say, Ivan runs the football side of things. The critics perception is that Wenger has no pressure and accountability from above. We do not know if this is true, but Wenger is a legacy manager, what he has done proves he is self motivated, I believe if it came to the day he wasn’t, he would leave.
    We must back them for the next games , and like the club , and objective fans, assess in May. As things are , it looks like this is turning into a ” can do better season”. If that pans out, I hope the club and manager learn any lessons that need learning…..defence ….more as a team than individuals would appear to be one of them. I don’t know if the answer is recruitment, training drills, a freshen up in coaches or coaching ,or a tweak in the philosophy, but doing nothing will only cost the team points in the future. There are games when we score a lot of goals, but do not win, that is a flaw.
    But yes, replacing Wenger will not be easy. That’s why I for one believe he will stay on another three years, and try and ease someone in place from within. The WOB want Jose or Simeone, not going to happen, these players are raised on a completely different philosophy, such a manager would involve replacing the entire playing staff.

  12. Football should be an art. It is an an expression of the human mind, instantly recognisable across the planet. It transcends language. It is its own language. Respect to you Blacksheep, and everyone who helped, for the banner.

    The problem is corruption. The problem is the certainty of knowing that the Panama Papers, and whatever else gets leaked in the future, leads automatically to FBI investigation of FIFA because FIFA and football, and just about every other sport, are corrupted, and can be investigated, and are expected to be investigated.

    This will lead to the FA. The UK is the heart of global tax avoidance. The corruption of football cannot be separated from the corruption that eats this planet alive.

    Compromised participants do not challenge corruption until the FBI offer them the chance of avoiding jail.

  13. Far too much unthinking publicity has been given to the brainless morons waving malign banners – these idiots look as if they know more about the bottom of a beer glass than they would about football management.

    Are the morons a self motivated and organised bunch, or is someone pulling their strings? We can’t be sure about this but BT always seems able to find them!

    As for AW – he has been immense for Arsenal, he has won a lot and would have won a lot more had it not been for PGMO permitting rival teams to cheat. That such cheating has been ignored and indeed protected by our national drinking association … sorry, the media, is a total disgrace.

    The people who yap loudest for AW to go (apart from the brain dead brand of the aaaa slimeballs) are those who have a vested interest in Arsenal not succeeding – those who want another club to be the flagship of the EPL and the minions they use to further their objectives.

    AW has my full support!

  14. You are right BJT , a lot of self publicists out there. Not just the banners, A friend has been at recent games, apparently ever increasing pushing and shoving as people jostle to get in position to have their views aired on Arsenal fans TV. A couple of fights as well. And with one or two exceptions, we know the predominant views expressed on AFTV.
    Looks like some are more concerned with rocking up to the games to get themselves on TV than actually supporting the team.

  15. Mandy posts

    ”Looks like some are more concerned with rocking up to the games to get themselves on TV than actually supporting the team.”

    A great line.

    It makes you think that if Blatter or Piers Moron or Olly Murs offered a selfie they’d fight each other for that.

    Arsene Wenger as a fallen hero of the selfie age. Look at it from that viewpoint then obviously that banner – ”Football should be an Art” – has too many words in it.

  16. Lots of good points being made – and a few really bad ones.
    Kroenke owns the Club – but he only bought his controlling shares after having sat on the Board for two years. He is far more engaged and knowledgeable about the Club than the vast majority of owners plus his son sits on the same Board and that says to me at least that a family engagement with Arsenal is planned for the very long term. The chances are very strong that a different owner (to whom Kroenke would have to sell for the best part of a billion pounds) would be far less acceptable as an owner. The old multi ‘owner’ model has long gone
    As for the manager having too much power and needing a Director of Football above him (which seems to be the gist of that particular banner) – show me a club where that has worked and I’ll give it some more thought.

  17. Dangunner
    April 10, 2016 at 10:40 am

    Are you trying to usurp Brickfields as the comedian here?

    If so you have a long, long way to go.

    You have written:

    “Secondly and the worst that has bothered me all the years is he has no tactical sense whatsoever.”

    By ‘he’ you mean Arsene.

    Arsene ‘doesn’t do tactics’ that is so, so funny. You cannot be serious.

    Unlike you Brickfields jokes are funny.

    This one of yours isn’t.

    Time and time again even the most anti Arsene commentator will exclaim something like this:
    ‘Arsene got it right. He doesn’t always but he got it right this time.

    Arsene has won four league championships and 7 cup finals and this for you proves beyond all doubt that Arsene ‘doesn’t do tactics’.

    If you were to remove the butcher’s hook from you nose and stop and think for yourself, you just might see the world differently to ‘Arsene doesn’t do tactics’.

    This mantra of the won nothingers has been around for so long that of course you believe the lie.

  18. insiderighter ‘He ( Kroenke ) is far more knowledgeable about the club than the vast majority of owners’, Really, where did you get that nugget from ? ‘A different owner would be far less acceptable’. Why? Surely it would depend on who that owner was.

  19. Nice article , Blacksheep . Was a bit disappointed with the draw , but it really ended up worse . After taking the lead , we just couldn’t keep them away , and Carrol scoring a hattrick ? Just poor defending .We are missing the killer edge .

    Hope that tonight’s games work out in our favour .

  20. Yes we can be disappointed and frustrated but that is the game of football, we are not the only one’s and if Arsene Wenger had not been at this club over the last few season’s when they were shouting for his head it would have been a hell of a lot worse
    The owner’s of this club want money put back in their pockets in spade’s that I don’t doubt for one minute and when we lost David Dein we also lost part of a double act, two men who did love this club as no owner ever will and who only wanted what was best in football terms and not money.
    I’m not in that boardroom so I don’t know what the hell is going on but has anyone ever considered that the reason Arsene Wenger is still there is partly that he also knows how money and money alone rules this boardroom and after all the years he has spend getting Arsenal to play as an ART that he knew with the building of a new stadium and all that that would entail and having to play on a budget he knew he was going to be in for one hell of a rough ride but he did not jump ship nor moan about the lack of anything at all no the man got on with it and suffered the vile abuse he has had to deal with along with his players.
    He stayed because he loved this club and if he was getting 12 million a year it still would not be enough for the amount of abuse not just from so called supporters and other teams supporters he has also had to listen and read the crap that it spoken by men who have never managed a football team and if they did well we all know how that turned out for them them.
    He is fighting a corrupt PMGO and if people don’t think that is corrupt then some time soon it will all come out and not just Arsenal who have suffered at their hands but also other PL teams.
    Arsene Wenger makes mistakes and gets it wrong at times but he has earned the right to see out his contract but let’s see who comes in and how after half a season if results are not going as they should and come the end of that season we are down the table with not even that Trophy which after all really is not a trophy to our name and then we kick of the next season and that season is not so bad and we finish say 6th 7th but still no trophies to show well you can bet your last bright penny that the abuse and stupid banners will appear again and do you think that another man would put up with that abuse which his loved ones will have had to listen to as well, hell NO and who could blame him.
    I hope he does go at the end of his contract but for his sake not Arsenal’s and I hope he comes back to hunt all those who have abused him but stupid banners up and I hope if he goes to a new club in Germany that he has all the success in the world because he will have earned it.
    Be very very careful what you wish for but then again I hope after next season you get it.

  21. I think there are some inherent difficulties when judging a manager who has been in charge for so long.

    The people who matter when judging if they have the right man essentially have the same task whether he has been in place for 2 months, 2 years or 20 years : do we believe someone else is likely to do a better job than this person?

    Really, it is the same task whether this is that manager’s first or twentieth season : where are we and where do we seem headed? How is the team looking? etc. With all the main focus on the present and the future. When you’ve a new manager in place, there’s no question of doing anything else. It happens naturally.

    So Liverpool supporters, for instance, will come away feeling ok about this year, even should the league form stay much as it is and they not win the Europa league. They judge their season purely on this season, compare it to the immediate past and, applying liberal dashes of optimism of course, feel happy enough or even quite happy.

    Now, we are on course for a better season than them in the league, plus, I would argue, a better one for us than the previous year. Faults remain, but the squad clearly looks better to me, and there has been good progress on many of the things which have hurt us most in recent times- in particular, we’re doing well in the big games, whereas for a long time we did not do well, and this was a massive problem and one it was hard to imagine us winning a title until we had made significant improvements.

    An obvious question is : had Wenger departed last year and a new man overseen this exact same season, how would our fanbase feel, would there be banners and outpourings of wild dismay after any result which isn’t a win? I don’t think so, there’s be mutterings, of course, and pessismism, but the prevailing mood would be optimism, I think.

    However, it would be stupendously unintelligent not to make full use of long track record where one is available. In all areas of life the right thing to do is to make use- weighing, sifting, sorting, discarding, labelling- of all the available information as best you can. (Even in fight of flight, though be quick about it)

    And so, you should not and cannot be expected to treat the fourth-year manager as if it is his first season, or the twentieth year. It is an inevitability that you do otherwise. Also inevitable is that, however briefly, the new incumbent benefits from the healthy optimism accorded to them. Worth remembering,though, is the fact that optimism is barely related to how things will actually unfold, and is more a matter of the state of mind of people individually and collectively. Still, though, it’s quite important, or at least feels it at the time.

    Back to the beginning. The main job of the people who matter is therefore deciding if there is another person who is likely to do a better job than Arsene Wenger. The past certainly has some relevance, especially the recent past, but the weightings are such that the present and the future are of paramount importance. Effectively, those decision-makers do have to try cancel out or see through a lot of the noise surrounding the club.

    They have to pay their dues to the past and take what is important from it, but of much more importance is looking at the present and towards the future. A large part of that is the difficult and necessary job of judging this year as though it was, or could have been, overseen by a brand new manager. The answer to that is hugely important in thinking about where we stand.

    Anyway, one message to emerge from this is that manager’s should be careful what they wish for.

    Those rare few who make it to the very top, who wish to win the maximum amount of trophies, enjoy the highest reputation possible, avoid as much criticism as possible, and enjoy long spells in charge of the same team, should realise something probably has to give there, and they are best to reconcile themselves to shorter spells in charge of the richest clubs. Follow the money, big dogs.

  22. @Rosicky, for the cord mate I don’t argue that it’s time for AW to go, I merely said it might be. @Bard I don’t know whether another owner would be better or worse but I think @Rich makes an excellent point about Stan and his son.

    Big business organisations are run by people who understand business , we may not like them because it challenges the ideal that football is the fan’s game, the people’s game, but it is the reality. If we put Black Scarf in charge I’m sure the atmosphere at games would be different but would the club’s finances continue to prosper?

    Would we win the league with a different Manager? Possibly, but then we might have won the league with Arsene this year’ if results had gone differently. We could pinch Pocettino from the Tinies, or Ranieri from Leicester, or even Bilic from WHU but would that ensure victory?

    Thanks for the interesting comments so far, it’s what makes this site so readable

  23. Is this the eighteenth or nineteenth year we are (probably) going to be in the Champions League spots? That’s despite everything that is regularly lined up against us.

    One man and one man only is responsible for that. As Linda says, he sacrificed a different career and other personal things to stick by Arsenal through the stadium development years. No wonder he says wryly that West Ham have won the lottery. No manager will have to make any sacrifices there.

    I find it interesting that Carroll played yesterday. He hadn’t played for five or six matches and Arsene Wenger said he had not expected him to play. His horrible foul after a few minutes and the elbow in the face early in the second half are the dirty side of his game. No idea how many other fouls he committed but it looked like Gabriel might have been on the end of some judging by his reactions later in the match. In his post match interview he appeared to agree that he had been sent on to deal with Gabriel.

    Adopting these kinds of tactics is one way of playing football, I suppose, and if you know the ref will let you get off with it, why not?

  24. Just to add, one reason I love Arsenal under Arsene Wenger is exactly because we do not adopt these tactics. We attempt to play a beautiful game.

  25. Totally agree Pat
    It’s the reason I fly over from Belfast as I’m also a season ticket holder to watch the beautiful game the way it should be played it’s just a great pity that more English teams do not play the same way.

  26. No matter how you cut it Mr.Arsene is incapable of winning .

    The excuse was money but thanks to Leicester there is no hiding.

    His tactical ability has been exposed time and time again.

    What has done Sanchez apart the goal.Constantly loosing ball and no help defending.Same goes to Ozil.
    Arsene sitting in his arse doing nothing.
    The man is frawd.

    Like any club we have to change and he has to disappear like Sir Alex.Wenger it is all about him has no dignity watsoever.

    With the amount of many that the club gave him and the full freedom to do anything that he want he should have done a lot better.

    Wenger out and thanks for the decade old memories.

  27. Pat

    So Wenger “sacrificed a different carreer” on behalf of Arsenal did he?
    Well all I can say to that is that he’s been adequately compensated to the tune of £8 million a year.
    I won’t speculate as to his worth or on what will happen at the end of his contract, but this is not the Arsenal of old when more honourable people were in charge of the club and when Arsene was first signed.

  28. The man is honourable which is more than can be said of some so called supporters. When players are making God knows how much with all the add on’s in their contracts Arsene Wenger is worth more than the £8 million he gets.
    Leicester City a team who last season was the second least fitness team in this league somehow transform themselves into the firptness week after week and are the only PL team to get two days off a week. Just look at the stats and ratio compared to Arsenal and go back and look with honest eyes at every game with the decision’s that have went against us and the decision’s that have went Leicester and Spurs way and look at this bigger picture over all and you will see if you look honestly what many people can see and other’s may I say that do not follow Arsenal also which tell’s the tale better than any Arsenal supporter could.
    Time will tell the full story because truth will always come out in the end and when it does I hope people will have the good grace to hang their heads in shame and admit they were wrong.
    I do hope he leaves at the end of his contract and he will see out that contract because he is an honourable man, the kind of man who when he gives his hand to shake is his bond.
    This club from top to bottom do not deserve this honest man who has given us twenty years of his life and kept us in the CL against the odd’s year after year when others jumped ship and left her not knowing or caring what would happen to her and you know what the most sickening thing about those players where, they had the cheek to kiss that badge and bang their chest’s professing their love of the club and when they were needed the most that same badge meant nothing at all to them.
    Your looking for people to blame then take a look at former player’s because if they had stayed and given Arsenal another season or two it could all have been so different . The man who made them what they were did not count for nothing and that tells its own story.
    Why come on a site that is pro Arsenal and pro her manager. If this is how you get your kick’s they I truly feel sorry for you. All that time and energy that is wasted could be put to better use like Supporting you team all the way or doing your homework. You can go to sites that spew their hatred and all feel in it together but to come on here just show’s us all what Arsene Wenger has had to put up with.

  29. not sure wenger sacrificed anything.. he is in his dream job.. for all the dissenters who seem to be spewing emotionally.. name the recognised topfour managers in the world and wenger will always be among them.. we already have him.. for all those who want him out. no one has suggested an alternative.. its just reactionary clap trap

  30. Linda
    Well said.These Wobs will realise after Wenger leaves the club that what a great manager Wenger was.
    Keeping the club in Europes elite for 18 years is no joke.Even United and Liverpool the two most sucessful clubs in England cant match that record.

  31. Arsene’ s sins are that he has failed to meet the expectations of some people. That clearly is not about winning a trophy.; he has won two back to back FA Cups recently. Whatever their expectations, I have a feeling that even if he won the league this season, he would still have been at the receiving end of some nastiness. I wonder what these people want clubs like Chelsea, Man City, and Liverpool! to do. They have signed players, changed managers and spent money, yet Arsenal is still ahead of them on the log. Not by coincidence or happenstance or by the benevolent love (?) of the FA, PGMOB, or other rival clubs. They got their by dint of hard work and a strong desire to succeed.

    Yes, they may not win the league this season, but then, so won’t Man U, Man City, Chelsea, and definitely not Liverpool. These are the benchmarks for measuring all other teams and success in English football. People fail to look at the fact that Arsenal or any other club has no divine right to any title. That they have not won it does not mean that they will never win it. How can anyone make such ridiculous claim is beyond reason. Which one of these wise men predicted that Leicester will be where they are today? Pinning some blame, real or imaginary on Wenger, thinking to me, is….dumb.

  32. Alex posts

    ”Wenger it is all about him has no dignity watsoever.”

    So you think ManU now have dignity? Liverpool dignity? Chelsea dignity? Man City dignity?

    Every football fan I meet, and I meet a good many, football is a very popular game, can’t understand ”why some Arsenal fans want Wenger out.” It makes no sense to them. Every last one then quote ManU as the outcome for Arsenal, and then they ask, ”can’t they see that?”

    You want Arsenal like ManU? Fans who had everything and now they might not even get European football. How do you think that tastes for them?

    ManU fans I speak to can’t even agree on who should be the next manager.

  33. @Blacksheep

    I would never put Abramovich and Kroenke in the same sentence. Abramovich has bought Chelsea a way to the elite while the other one, when Arsenal FC made a 3 million pounds payment to his other company, left fans without a firm response.

    Would Abramovich silently watch Chelsea getting massacred by the referees week in and out?

    What Kroenke has done regarding that issue? To put the financial spectacles on: what has he done to prevent Arsenal losing the merit money due to biased referees’ performances that have been taking place for years?

    Even those stupid banner-carriers have been fooled into believing that Mr Wenger is the problem. Hence that idiotic “Arsenal FC – not Arsene FC” mantra. The real issue is: “Arsenal FC is not Kroenke FC”.

    If Arsenal want to win the league or a Champions League, a huge change is needed regarding Kroenke. Whether that means Kroenke will think more about helping his best employee by making sure Arsenal FC have a level field or that Kroenke will be replaced Usmanov, I frankly don’t give a damn. Until then:

    Stan Kroenke is a silencer on Mike Riley’s gun pointed at Arsenal FC knees!

  34. AW get compensated £8 million a year – true but he brings in at least 5 times that in making the UCL each year and never dropped below fourth in the league. That not counting many new sponsorships and fans his style of football attracted.

    AW ‘doesn’t do tactics’ has to be one of the funniest and stupid quote you could ever hear, AW ‘don’t do tactics’ but he has never led a team below fourth, I guess all the other managers below him all these years must be even more tactical inept than him. If AW ‘doesn’t know tactics’ why are his teams consistently one of the highest to create goal opportunities and are usually in the top 5 for having less goals conceded? Surely if a person who ‘don’t know tactics’ would be facing relegation every year not be around the top.

    The EPL has been around for over 20 years, can you tell me how many times a low-budget team has won the league? What Leicester doing this season is a freak that happens once in a while. They are fortunate to have barely any injuries to key players, they don’t have any pressure from fans to win anything but to survive relegations, they only needed to focus on one competition, get some help from the refs, but overall I believe what got them where they are is because they are clinical with their goal chances, whereas for some reason we lack this season, and also luck because many teams didn’t take them seriously during first half of season therefore play more open than they would against Arsenal. Overall, Leicester will win the league and they truly deserved it.

  35. Two facts:The so called supporters who want Wenger to leave would be screaming for him to be hired if he was at another club right now.
    Wengers replacement will have his detractors from day 1.
    if he does not win all the games the moaners will just move onto him,

  36. My main problem with Kroenke ….and most of the previous board, they gave no financial help to Wenger during the most difficult years associated with the stadium move. Dein reportedly suggested SK as a billionaire backer to help Wenger through this period by providing investment. Dein got the wrong man in that case.
    Of course to counter that, there is no evidence Wenger asked for anything during these years, but in hindsight, the invincible so maybe should have been built on with a little outside money.
    Wenger strikes most as pretty responsible when spending money, I cannot help wonder if board members have taken advantage of this side of him, and maybe let him take more flak then deserved.
    But Kroenke looks to be here to stay and I certainly don’t want Wenger gone, I just want him to get the team to defend a bit better! Wenger said yesterday the team have been weak in the air all season, I just don’t get why he allowed this to continue. I really hope this is something he will put right and soon.
    That said, if we had had the injuries, or lack of them enjoyed by Leicester and Spurs, we would be miles ahead, defending or not.

  37. ‘If you love Arsenal be careful what you wish for…’
    Aah, the line that comes out whenever anyone dares to question Arsene Wenger’s flawed methodology.
    And there’s always a queue of people blindly defending that.
    Arsenal themselves have taken away the right of every Arsenal supporter to dream, or have any ambitious inclination, and if 2014 didn’t wake people up, then nothing will.
    Someone wrote yesterday of Wenger’s ‘true love for the club’. I think if someone was rewarding me so generously and only asking for the bare minimum in return, I’d love them too. But he’ll never love the club as much as the supporters, who make significant financial sacrifices rather than take out of the club, like he and Kroenke do. We’re not his boyhood club, and whether he loves Arsenal or not, that is not how you measure whether or not he’s still good enough to do the job.
    If Ferguson came out of retirement and took the Bournemouth job in the summer, I’d stick every penny I had on them finishing above Arsenal next season. That’s how predictable Arsenal and Wenger are, and the fact that they refuse to roll the dice and advocate change is an indication of how cowardly they are.
    When was the last time they had an open honest forum with supporters to discuss the club’s direction and vision for the future?
    Arsenal are the great pretenders.
    They give off the perception that they’re in a title race every year, but they’re not really are they. There’s no root and branch investigation or soul-searching at Arsenal, they never respond anyway.Ferguson responded to Liverpool’s dominance, and he reacted immediately when City won the PL title in 2012. Arsenal’s response? The tumble-weed is still blowing around.
    So we won two FA Cups. WOW!!! Arsene Wenger delivering big-time!!!
    Except Arsenal slept-walked their way to the first one at the same time as thousands of fans were having a melt-down over Wenger casually surrendering the PL title from a winning position.
    Shortly after the January 2014 transfer-window closed, Arsenal hosted Moyes’ United at The Emirates, playing out a timid, insipid 0-0 draw. Arsenal were the only top six side that season not to score against United that season. In his summary after the game, Mark Pougatch questioned Wenger’s logic. He stated that Arsenal had £150m sitting in the bank, and it was as though Wenger was deliberately handicapping himself and Arsenal in order to prove a point. Pougatch likened it to trying to win a F1 Grand Prix in a Skoda.
    Is this the philosophy you’re so vehemently defending? That it’s completely acceptable for a massive football club to cut corners and do things on the cheap even though we’re stuck in a loop of continually falling short?
    We’re timid on the field and we have a timid fan-base who more than welcome the opportunity to be shafted over and over again, because after ten years they’ve come to enjoy it.
    I wish Arsenal were a football club again instead of being greedy Corporate ponces, until that happens, the fans will never be united.

  38. Possibly, but then we might have won the league with Arsene this year’ if results had gone differently .

    Really different results and more points , that figures but then I suppose that if my Auntie had balls she might be my Uncle.

    (If I knew how to put a laughing smiley here I would.)

  39. In light of your Post, perhaps Arsenal could commission some sort of IQ Test among their fan-base with the top five forming a ‘Counsel of Intelligence’ who work with the club, and with their full blessing, guide us so that we know exactly what we can and can’t wish for, and where we should pitch our expectations.
    Currently I’m thinking anything above relegation is perfectly acceptable for our supporters as long as Wenger stays.

  40. Herb,

    I can’t think you ever hope to influence anyone who disagrees with you here. The quality of your arguments are simply not up to scratch.

    Endlessly confusing opinion with solid fact, endlessly using cheap exaggeration. Sleep walking to the FA cup, ‘casually surrendering’ our league hopes. Opinion, and not very sensible opinion. These things didn’t happen. The team fought, struggled and no doubt found it agonising to fall short of the highest hopes. No one more so than the manager, who is well known to take it personally and find defeat very painful.

    The fans will never be united again. It may appear that we are if we have some golden period of huge success, but underneath it all we will remain a diverse mass of humanity who represent a wide spectrum of behaviour, opinion, etc, about football and the rest of life. Success just temporarily disguises how different we are and what we are actually made of.

    You offer nothing, no well-reasoned arguments, as to why such a period of huge success is one iota more likely under some new manager.

    As the prime desire of any football fan is surely to see the club do as well as they possibly can, it would be the greatest supporter crime to blindly, wildly demand change while having no idea about how likely that change is to leave the club on a better footing.

    You revile those who are preventing us from having a better chance to do well, but I say your calculations all appear faulty or non-existent; and in turn I despise those who insist on a change while offering no evidence it will improve us and when the likelihood remains it will make us worse.

    Nice of you to make clear how suspect an authority you are on football,though, and, should you represent accurately the critical movement in general, how suspect they are.

    You’d put every penny on Ferguson Bournemouth finishing above Arsenal! Wow. Yeah, lets let those with those credentials/ football chops take over and dictate what we do. Bound to end well.

    Pougatch is a bit of a cock, by the way. The man- swiss ramble- who produces those detailed breakdowns of our financial situation each year, and whose work people love to feast upon and use as suits them, suggests our cash reserves probably equate to about 60 million (this time; would have been less previously) available to spend on players. Did you not pick up on that key bit of information?

    It’s quite important; though, sadly, if you accept it you might have to confront the possibility Pougatch, and many others, might be playing fast and loose with the facts, maybe deliberately, maybe not.

    My mind isn’t closed. I’m ready to listen to any analysis which attempts, preferably calmly, to make a good case of why change is necessary.

    Totally ready, though it would make me sad to see good arguments. Some arguments are better than others, but as yet I have not seen a single one that is nearly convincing enough..

    Maybe you can produce it. I anticipate the closest anyone can get is ‘look, we don’t know if it’ll be better; it could well be worse, but my desire for change is urgent; I want to dream; I’m just ready for a change and then we’ll see whatever the hell happens’

    That’s a very different proposition than your stance.

  41. If the premise is that supporters should be grateful for the feed of constant there or thereabout failure, then I can’t go along with that. I too hold a season ticket and rarely if ever miss a home match and try to get to at least 6 away a season and I have had my fill of the status quo.A lot of people miss the point “deliberately” possibly. They seem to believe that anti Wenger/ Board banners are related to the match just played where in fact they are a direct consequence of the barren years that we have endured. You ask who could replace him ? a fair question and one which is almost impossible to answer and probably why you pose it in the first place. Big names are always trotted out as a warning not to be hasty but I would be prepared to realise that a consequence of the guard change will most certainly require accepting a few backward steps whilst a new incumbent gets things the way he wants them. We seem to have a weak underbelly , we collapse too frequently and make similar mistakes without looking to rectify them . We have players , all talented, but tainted with the ability to implode at any given moment. and unless we go for wholesale clearance sales it will take more than a magic wand to create the team we want. I would like to see the club study young managers and assess their background history , whether they are associated with youth or whether they were talented as players. Who they played for and who they have learned from and lastly I would like some previous history with our club. It brings me to put the De Boer twins into the hat with DB 10 and Overmars and I would want to see the club give them time to mould things their way. All proven winners and all coming from the Ajax youth development scheme. Whether Gazidis could swing it with Kroenke is another question and whether they would be prepared to work under his constraints, but I would prefer a long term approach rather than a succession of 1 hit wonders.

  42. What are you on about, Rich?
    Were Arsenal top of the PL at the end of January, 2014 or not?
    Having lost Walcott for the remainder of that season why would you bring in a solitary loan-signing with a broken back as your only signing when we were short in quite a few other areas?
    Areas that were horribly exposed at Anfield, Stamford Bridge and Goodison Park?
    If you’re top of the table with less than half the season to go, wouldn’t you give yourself the best chance of seeing the job through?
    How important is the FA Cup?
    It hasn’t really been on the radar until very recently. After mugging United in 2005, we showed little or no interest because the ‘fourth-place trophy’ became far more valuable, and we’d play reserves, or peripheral squad players in FA Cup ties to ‘save’ players for PL and CL games.
    Just like we did against Blackburn of the Championship, when they came to The Emirates in the 5th Round and beat us, four days before all those precious rested players were knocked out of the CL.
    Arsenal are treading water and in terms of the main two trophies available, are doing the same thing every year with the same outcome, so how about change for change-sake, to break this ridiculously boring cycle of flirting with the trophies and baling out as soon as any pressure is applied?
    A manager who champions the cause of African footballers, but buys second-tier instead of the top-shelf.
    When you can predict how your league and CL performances are going to pan out, it means there’s no surprises anymore, no sense of excitement, Arsenal have become very predictable. Wenger has nothing new to offer and the two mirror each other.
    Are we a big, ambitious football club, or a comfortable pair of old carpet-slippers that we’re terrified of throwing away? You clearly are the latter.

  43. Porter, I find that a much more reasonable argument.

    Importantly, it admits there’s a distinct possibility we will drop for an unknown length of time.

    It does hint that any backward steps would be part of a process which then sees us move forward, presumably to a better place than now. To me that’s a matter of huge uncertainty.

    More likely is that the next man may well aim to address our weaknesses, may well succeed, at least partially, but may in the process sacrifice some of our strengths and not leave us any better off. For instance they might target bigger cb’s, more aggressive players, more pragmatic football, and this may well leave us better at certain things; in the majority of cases, however the cost of that is to become weaker at some other aspect of the game.

    We can guess, and try apply logic and our football experiences, but it’s all very uncertain.

  44. Here’s a question for you, Rich.
    What are Pocchetino and Tottenham able to do so much more efficiently than Wenger and Arsenal?
    Why are they getting much more value out of their spend than Arsenal are theirs?
    Or is that not relevant?

  45. Herb

    Only thing likely to alter your opinion is if we try out a couple of different managers who spend more than Wenger but don’t end up winning us titles and instead see us drop out of CL places on occasion.

    Much as I’d love to see you forced into changing your ways, I can’t wish for that future to happen. Nor do i trust you’d use that new information in a fair, honest way. Can’t see you saying ‘maybe I was wrong there’ (do you often say that about anything, by the way?)

    As for those agonising days at Liverpool, Everton and Chelsea, I’d say it is one area of the game where we have improved significantly. My displeasure/pain at those sort of days is such that I would’ve liked to see us bring in at least another dm in recent years, but that surely doesn’t change the fact we have become far less vulnerable to that type of awful- hit early, then hit again and again- day and are surely much better in big games now.

    Ignoring something like that in the course of making your argument is the sort of thing I can’t respect.

    Yesterday was an eye-opener ; functioning very well in central midfield, then we got butchered on crosses. I’d hope that provides one more bit of critical information to help turn us into a title-winning team as soon as possible.

    I think we’re close, that we have been improving, and that the proof isn’t there that our chances of becoming that bit better, which I’m desperate to see happen, will improve next year with a new manager.

    It’s been damn painful this not being the year, as it is for me any year it isn’t, but I try to largely put that aside- the emotion, the disappointment- when answering the key question of what is best for us now.

    Anyway, time to go and watch this perfectly shit football weekend be rounded off with the last minutes of a Spurs victory so emphatic Utd are likely to cave and go with Mourinho after all.

    Prob best for us to ignore each others posts now (after you’ve had last word and supposing it isn’t too insulting)- we’re not gonna change each others minds one bit

  46. @ Herb, do you understand what a cash reserve is? Use that £160 million for transfers only if you want to bankrupt the club.

  47. Rich et al.

    Herb’s Army, is a relic from ArsenalArsenal.

    He believes aliens are kidnapping humans, for research! Area 51 anyone?

    Ignore him, full stop.

  48. Totally agree Rich

    I’m sick to death of the moaning and bitching when no one can tell us who should be the next manager. The status quo, ask Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Spurs supporters would they have liked to have the Status Quo that Arsenal have had all these years and they would bit your hand of for it.
    Some people are never satisfied no matter what they have and will always bitch and moan that they want more
    No one know’s what goes on in the Arsenal boardroom but yet people put all the blame at Wengers feet. The Board and its owner let Wenger take all the flack and hide behind him. SK being the business man he is with family on the board, do people really thing that Arsene Wenger run’s this football club all by himself, I think not.
    He may make decisions but not all of them. How would anyone know if AW has gone to the board and asked for world players to be bought, he won’t come out and say I have asked repeatly and was told No. He is to much of an honourable man to let us know just what goes on behind closed doors.
    He is being hung out to dry without people yet knowing the facts but here is one thing I do wish, I hope when the time comes and he leaves that somewhere down the line the truth will finally come out and if it comes from Wengers mouth I know I can believe it. If anything where to come from the board I very much doubt that I would believe it for after all they left the best manager this club has ever had out to dry. Remember the money that the board stated we had to buy players and it turned out to be a lie but who feel for the it, Wenger did and took all the flax for not buying such and such a player and that he was tight.
    The Arsenal board have hid behind him time and time again which says a lot about the board in my view. If he goes to Germany the team that get him will be very very lucky and I hope he comes back to the Ems and wins big because if ever a man deserved revenge for what the supporters and those of other clubs with their nasty little songs about him then I hope he gets that satisfaction at the very least. It would be the only time in 43 years that I would not mind one little bit and I would cheer him and thank him for the twenty years or so of his life that he gave to us.

  49. Blacksheep, carry on, please.

    Those who wish to question the wisdom of following the Arsenal, are entitled to do so.

    For instance, with Andy Carroll, why give that chappie a free header? He wanders to the left or right, with Monreal and Hector, both somewhat short in the aerial challenge.

    Carroll was getting no change from the CBs, thus blatant fouling.

    With freekicks expertly delivered, Carroll was the obvious target man. Questions, questions.

  50. Notoverthehill –

    You must also be a relic from ArsenalArsenal.
    Aliens kidnapping humans? Are you sure? Not heard of that one before.
    But people don’t need prompting to ignore me, especially if you’re far more important.

  51. Ok, Herb, can’t resist trying to answer you latest question. It’s one of the best ones out there.

    Evaluating that, and Leicester, of course, provides the strongest case for doubt (about Wenger/ our recent development).

    Might sound like an unsatisfactory (and long-winded) answer but…hear me out: if someone does something brilliantly, and better than you, does that mean you are awful? Obviously not, and it’s the same story everywhere, including players and managers.

    So, if we say Pochettino has done brilliantly in his time at Spurs, and it’s hard to argue he hasn’t, does that mean Wenger has done badly or even very badly in the same period? I don’t see why it does. It’s a similar thing to this idea that all Wenger supporters or Wenger haters are of one mind. No chance.

    For instance, one person who is emphatic he should stay, or go, might insist there is literally no argument; that every last bit of evidence/ opinion points one way; another person might feel there is loads of evidence for each side, and yet still be able to reach a decision/ opinion- i.e a winning argument, yes or no.

    That is surely the truth of it and yet many are determined to suggest it isn’t that way at all, that to say yes or no means no complex argument has taken place; that to support, or criticise, is to, blindly, of course, close your mind to the alternative arguments.

    Spurs performance is just one, emotional yet not critical, point of comparison when trying to answer how we’ve done.

    Something to think about : each year you engage in a fight against some fierce rival, literal fight or business fight or whatever. One man leads you to success for 20 years in a row in that fight. The other guys naturally appoint many different leaders in that time as they try to beat us. 21st year they manage it, beating us by a small margin. Does that mean our leader has disgraced himself. And would a wise man bet on him losing again the following year or making it 21/22 with another victory.

    So there’s that to think about.

    It helps to get in the right frame of mind by thinking about what has happened to other teams and managers when they have taken some great leap forward, and had a great year or overachieved (particularly according to their budget). Typically there is a similarly big fall the next year, with Liverpool being the best recent example.

    It doesn’t sound nearly as convincing, now, to say ‘Wenger should fucking go because look how close Liverpool got to the title!’, but the relevance isn’t so far from how Spurs have done this year.

    Doing that doesn’t win the argument by any stretch, doesn’t mean you should go ‘aargh, we could do worse, we can’t risk that(get me those slippers)’; it’s just one more thing to weigh up very carefully and think about long and hard.

    Us not knowing if Spurs will maintain this in years to come, nor how Leicester will perform next year, doesn’t mean we should disregard their excellent work; instead it all means to me that there are teams who have done excellent work in the last few years…and that, yes, maybe it is better than our own work(hard not to feel that at this moment, anyway, though that will quickly change if we have a stormer next year and they fail)…but does it mean we have done terribly, and does it mean there is this overwhelming case for sacking the manager?

    I don’t think so.

    For what it’s worth, my opinion is that this year is ultimately a disappointment; and that I feel we need to see a serious improvement next year (which would surely reward us with a very strong title push. Winning, or losing by a small margin).

    If we don’t get that improvement, and certainly if we were to actually perform worse, it is then that i would feel, with a very heavy heart, that the time has finally come for a fantastic servant to the club to leave and for a new manager to take over.

    Unfortunately, you can’t always get what you want, and I remain fearful that the fan reaction in the coming weeks could create a situation where Wenger leaves. I really hope not but you never know.

    That really is it now unless you dig out another of those killer questions. No, it’s it. Best of luck to you.

    If i could take off, say, two percent off your certainty and vehemence Wenger has done badly, that would be a small victory.

    You probably took a good five per cent of mine with that question, but I reckon I’ve recovered most of it now

  52. @Alex

    No offence intended but you are just the type of Arsenal supporter I get frustrated at. “He is incapable of winning”, “His tactical ability has been exposed time and time again”

    Where do you get this from? This is the most successful manager we’ve had and you say “Incapable of winning” and you question his tactical ability!

    And now you’re having a pop at Sanchez! I get it, you’re disappointed that we are not winning the league but none of this makes sense to me.

    Unless Wenger decides to call it a day, and with some of the ungrateful fan-base we have I wouldn’t blame him, he isn’t going anywhere for at least one more season. So we all have decide to accept that and support the club (e.g no more banners) or don’t accept it and do something else for at least one more season.

  53. Ok Rich, one more from me and we’ll call it quits.
    I would be more inclined to agree with you regarding Tottenham, if this was a one-off, but they are extremely close to us every season with a much lower spend, and massively lower wage-bill.
    Even when they made their only CL appearance a couple of years ago under Redknapp, they went a round further than Arsenal.
    It doesn’t make sense that Arsenal spend vastly more than Tottenham, and have almost double the stadium capacity, for the gap between the two club’s to be so small.
    So busy are we moralising over City and Chelsea, we simply ignore how significant our resources are compared to those of Tottenham, and then we laugh at them when they finish a point short, as though we’ve achieved something really special, when in reality all we’ve done is to stop them highlighting how much money we waste. This year, Tottenham’s Skoda is comfortably ahead of Arsenal’s Ferrari, but it will be swept under the carpet and hardly mentioned because Leicester are the main story, and Arsenal can continue rinsing their fan-base with no accountability.
    But if it isn’t addressed there will be a power-shift in North London, and it’s been a while since we beat them in the PL.

  54. A very well written piece,which clearly shares the fears of a lot of loyal Arsensl supporters

  55. @philbet…wrong on so many levels. Wenger’s tactics are outdated beyond what is considered hope. No other team wants a Manager of Wengers ilk, as his methods are outdated. Proof lies in Arsenals inability to win their league in better than a decade. Sadly, Wengers methods and tactics are easily deciphered and broken down. Proof of this? Take a good hard look at the results of the last decade, and try hard to not use the excuses that Wenger has. Winners never make excuses.

  56. Herb, you speak many truths…however it may likely become lost on many on this site due to oblivious vision.

  57. Ernest…..winners never make excuses…..Fergie and Jose are generally classed as winners…made every excuse under the sun when things didn’t go their way. Usually starting with the refs….then the media, One of them even blamed his medics!

  58. But they still won, Mandy. What’s your point? Records speak for themselves and claiming an FA Cup is not exactly stellar these days, not when consider that Leicester is closing in on infamy. Excuses are running beyond super thin these days…the facts just don’t bear them out…sorry.

  59. This much is known, next season Arsene Wenger will be matching wits with some of the best football minds. There can be no excuse if Wenger is believed to be the legend he is made out to be…of this there can be no doubts. Time will tell, but truth be told I think we have all seen this one play out before.

  60. Herb, over turning twenty years in one season…should it happen is a pretty substantial power shift
    As for Spurs, they will finished second or third,then get carved up in the next season,or two as their new stadium comes in. Someone may well poach Poch, if Spurs could do it, why not someone else.
    A one off, should it happen is not a power shift, but hopefully a bit of a wake up call on Wenger to improve one or two things….starting with defending as a team I don’t see Spurs as genuine rivals, arsenal have bigger fish than them to fry.
    But as you point out, they may illustrate one thing, spend spend spend is not always the answer.
    There are a lot of improvements going on behind the scenes at Arsenal, in areas where Wenger and the club have admitted were a bit neglected due to the pressure of finishing in the top four and finances. It is possible in the past, too much was put on Wenger in too many areas of the clubs running. But, these …probably much needed improvement in the academy, scouting, sports science , fitness and recovery will put the club on a much stronger footing in wengers era and beyond. If a first teamer is underperforming or injured, there will be plenty more iwobis knocking on the door.

  61. What saddens me to no end from yesterday is that Andy Carrol was made to look like a 100 million pound superstar by Arsenal. When that happens you something has gone horribly wrong, and sadly it’s not a one for either. Sad day indeed.

  62. What should sadden Ernst is that the ref allowed Carrol to stay on the field – wrongly.

    Perhaps when Ernst professes saddness he is really being very economical with the truth regarding his true feelings and stated allegiance – perhaps not for the first time!

    If we added the 25 points which refereeing decisions have denied us, would the cacophony of complaints from brain dead aaaa slimeballs be quite so loud?

  63. Is that the going rate for an excuse, BJT? Whether you like it or not, the reality is that Carrol dismantled a poor defensive backfield. You can wax injustice that Carrol should have been off, but the reality is that if that’s your way out then your argument only strengthens the matter at hand, Carrol turned our defenders into mush. That should be the real concern, not the referee. Please, get with reality…it was ugly and no amount of make believe will alter the obvious.

  64. Why is it always the referee that is the reason for Arsenal shortcomings? from an outside observer I find this particular side of “spin” intriguing to say the least. Many of you act like this only happens to you? Yet just last week Ronald Koemann said the very same thing happened to his team against Leicester.

    Things that make go hmmmmmm.

  65. No excuse Ernst – perhaps you feel Rules of the game should not be followed?

    But you might be happier polluting another site, one which matches your own drift from logic.

  66. Ernest

    First post of yours clearly seems to be from an Arsenal supporter perspective; latter one talks about being an ‘outside observer’, and then says, ‘Many of you act like this only happens to you’.

    Bit confusing. Is it sloppy English from you, poor reading skills from me, or are you not actually an Arsenal fan?

    Things that make go ‘eh?’

  67. Just want to say – this discussion and the faked likes and dislikes in no way reflects the balance of support for Arsene Wenger on this site. A small number of people have spent a lot of time in the last couple of days pressing buttons and writing long and meaningless diatribes with no factual basis attacking the manager.

    Why, I ask myself? There must be some powerful interests that don’t want Arsenal to do well. Otherwise, where is the logic in spending all that time attacking our most successful manager ever?

    A couple of people mention successes by Chelsea, for example. Where is Chelsea in the league today? Nothing like that has happened to Arsenal in the entire period of Arsene Wenger’s management. Nothing like what has happened to Manchester United since the end of the Ferguson era has happened to Arsenal under Arsene Wenger.

    These are facts. And I’ve got my scarf that says Arsenal has won the FA Cup more often than any other team. Under Arsene Wenger. And no one can take away from us the achievements of the Invincibles and the 49 games unbeaten.

    Support the team!

  68. Pat

    You are correct.

    Also, where is the Chelsea and MU reputation regarding honesty and integrity? In the same gutter as that of the PGMO and media?

    When a reputation loss of that magnitude occurs it is very hard to get it back.

  69. @Rich…observations. First post is giving props to the author, which is deserved. The other posts are in response to the contradictory posts to those of the author by regulars. In the face of common sense there appears a facade of denial and excuses for the reality that Arsenal find themselves.

    There is nothing sloppy about my English, which by the way is my third language, but rather an open puzzlement of the prevailing attitude of those that consider themselves to be “regulars”…an almost cult-like behaviour on display. Things that make you say eh, eh!

  70. @Pat…who won the league last season? When was the last time that Arsenal could say as much? Could go on but in all honesty the facts stack up against such arguments. Chelsea may be out this year, but they won the league last year and as for the FA Cup, it’s a cup and not the premium award that is sought after year in and year out. Those are the facts, cold and hard…it’s about the league title and always will be. We used to win that at one time, but my facial hair has changed colour since then, and that too is fact.

  71. It’s a rather insular sphere that you reside in, BJT. Sure I’m an outsider, but I have every right to be here as much as you. My opinion may differ, but my language and intent are respectful. I have not done anything untoward a to anyone other than to ask questions and challenge your considered “norm”. This is not your private domain and you should not consider it as such, that is not the intent of the architects of the site, both gentlemen.

  72. Yeah yeah….we have heard it all before, the FA Cup means nothing, then why did the WOB…..and our phone hacker celebrity super fan go into meltdown when we were knocked out recently?

  73. @Pat…I have always supported the team, since 1977 in fact. Does not ever mean that I must support any given player or manager as a condition of support. AFC are bigger than any one individual, player, manager or owner. It is a club for the people and by the people first. To challenge an individual’s love of their club is to challenge your own. Club first!!!

  74. @Mandy…the FA Cup is not the Holy Grail in the EPL and you know it. For the life of me I can never understand why anything less than the best is accepted as a normal? Why is not coming first do readily accepted as akin to winning? Can you explain this, please?

  75. Must’ve been a brutal first decade for you then, Ernest. No titles!

    Surprised your love or Arsenal ever got off the ground if you were unhappy from the early days and for a full ten years after that. Or did cups used to matter?

    Be interesting to know what got you started and kept you coming back. Can’t have been titles, so what was it you liked about the club until you loved it? Did you have the same expectations and demands all the way through or have they changed a lot over time?

    Also, I take my hat off to you for your English skills . Much better than a signifigant proportion of native speakers.

    I’m impressed, and not finding it at all easy to pick up a second one- Danish, and a tough swine to me- in my thirties.

  76. Ernst @9.26pm

    “Herb, you speak many truths…however it may likely become lost on many on this site due to oblivious vision.”

    Respectful? I don’t think so – your attempt at self justification is looking ever more disingenuous.

  77. Actually Rich, my Father introduced me to my first ever match, Derby County vs Arsenal. Loved the English style of play and Arsenal were on the match of the week more often than not. Researched the history of the club and fell in love. Nsure, there were many a lean year to be found, but you hang in there and hope your faith will be rewarded.

    For the record, Wengers first decade was beauty personified. Revolutionized the game to a whole new level. Skies the limit if you will. Last decade? A fishbowl of oddity because you would have thought, honestly enough, that Wenger would have advanced his ways, but it seems that the master has been outdone by perhaps his pupils? It’s sad and frustrating that things are the way they are. Remember, it is Wenger who set the benchmark of success, success he has not been able to retain (lightening in a bottle if you will)’ and that is most unfortunate.

    I’m old enough now to openly ask for more from the team that I love. Why not? I’m not ungrateful, never so. I know that Arsene Wenger will leave one day and it should be of his choice as he has earned that. I mentioned in my first post that we should not fear the future because life should never be about that. I welcome change as I always have, as a natural progression of life events. Fear is what keeps us from our destiny…and I am not about that. Arsene Wenger has given a lifetime of service to our club and deserves all that he has rightly earned. It is time to look to the future now as I feel that he has achieved all that he can…and I will leave it at that point out of respect to him.

  78. Actually Rich, I’m trying hard to learn a fourth language now, German. Tough to meet up with my wife’s family at times and to figure out what they are talking about. I will say this, no offense intended, but sense of humour is not exactly their strong suit. That is what I love about the British, wonderful senses of humour.

  79. Whatever floats your boat, so to say, BJT. Not overly enamoured with you as well. Disingenuous is an interesting word, if applied properly, to which I openly question your use of it in reference to me.

  80. there are many ways of winning, losing and all things in between.
    Anything less than the best is accepted as normal? Must be a lot of very talented but abnormal people out there then. Wengers team has not been at his best this year, there is work to do….clearly,…..but will still finish above those who were supposedly packed with winners…..or so wengers critics were saying at the start of the season.
    anyway, it’s late and I am not going to indulge in the importance of being Ernest,
    Good night all

  81. Change is inevitable, and is usually scary, but change is what makes life.

    On AW, i do think Arsenal needs a change, and i’ll bet Arsenal knows and is working on this. Whatever happens, and who ever replaces AW, it will be tough at first, but Arsenal will prevail.

    Arsenal has been stuck at the same position for the last times, but i would like to say, Arsenal is top of the crop really when one takes away Chel$, Manc and ManU, and if these three teams were not there, then NO one will be calling for AW’s head.

    That said, i see that Arsenal needs change, and it needs it now, else we will probably have the same type of season again next year.

    This change could be as small as AW “moving upstairs” or as big as AW leaving Arsenal for somewhere else. But the change i really want to see, is more consistency in our team, after all we have the ability to be that.

    But even that is funny as:
    Consistency = lack of change, among other things.

    They do have humour, but as with all things, it is different. Good luck with German. When you start to dream in German, then you’ve cracked it. Viel Gluck.

  82. If other season ticket holders are like me, then yes we do need change. The reason for this is that I am seriously thinking about not going any more (having started in 1968 and lived through many much darker days that these “new” fans haven’t. The reason is that a highly verbal small minority of know-it-all’s are spoiling my day SUPPORTING Arsenal which, bearing in mind the 200 round trip, is not my idea of fun. If other real supporters are suffering the same from the football geniuses that Monday to Friday are probably only required to ask “do you want fries with that”, then the ground will lose many real supporters in favour of people who will never be happy. What a great future………

    The irony is that if these people think it’s so bad then why don’t they stop going and allow the rest of us to actually enjoy a couple of hours untainted by their constant and poorly thought out abuse?

    And just for clarity, I am not an “AKB” and I find that title quite puerile. The WOB’s are known as that because they want Wenger out. I, and many others, who do not want Wenger out also do not think he can do no wrong hence we do not always think AKB (although he certainly knows more than somebody with no professional experience whatsoever). In my opinion, this is just a cheap shot at trying to make pro-Wenger supporters look bad……but then it appears to me that this is the way the WOB’s work. No evidence just shallow rhetoric and unsubstantiated claims in an attempt to get their own way……the football fan equivalent of throwing yourself to the floor in the supermarket and screaming until mummy buys you some sweets really.

  83. Herb’s Army
    I read a lot of posts here counter to my own thinking and respect everyone’s opinion, mindful that it’s just that, opinion. I post occasionally when time permits. There’s been many responses to your points. However, not one remark re your take on Bournemouth. Even with ‘Fergie time’ and his friends in the PGMO, you really believe a Ferguson managed Bournemouth would finish higher than Arsenal? You’ve lost your footing there, mate unless it was added just to tweek Wenger supporters.

  84. @ Herb, in the past 17 seasons Spurs only came within 5 points from Arsenal 4 times, below 10 points 6 times, and with Arsenal 10 points or above 11 times. So not sure where you getting that Spurs always close to Arsenal?

  85. @Herb, according to Forbes Spurs are currently 13th richest club in the world and Arsenal 7th. If looking only at EPL clubs Spurs are 6th behind Liverpool 5th and Arsenal 4th. However, once the Spurs stadium redevelopment is completed this will push them up further. So they are not a small club and should be closer to Arsenal.

  86. Goonersince72 – The way I see it is quite simple. Ferguson is driven by the desire to win and be the best, Wenger is more obsessed with presentation than the end result. If Ferguson was able to beat Real Madrid in a major European Final with Aberdeen, beating Wenger is hardly a challenge.
    I don’t think there’s another manager who would achieve it, but Ferguson? 100%.

    Polo – We’re not talking about how much the two clubs are worth, I was talking about spend.
    As an Arsenal fan, I am conscious that during recent years Tottenham have been gathering momentum and becoming a bigger threat. Yes, up to now, Arsenal have held them off, but the gist of my question is how much more have Arsenal spent to keep Tottenham below them?
    How much more money are Arsenal currently spending than Tottenham, with Tottenham looking down on us in the PL?

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