By Walter Broeckx
A few minutes ago the ref blew the end of the game Fenerbache – Arsenal. Final score was a big 0-3 win for Arsenal. Goals scored by Gibbs, Ramsey and Giroud. And let’s be honest we should have won this game with 0-5 with a little better finishing.
Now you might think that I will start to sing praise of our team. But allow me to leave this out for now. I will do it later this week of course. As you know that every time we win I will praise the team and the players.
Sometimes you feel sad for the people who fail to see the influence a ref can have on a game. I tried to make a bit of fun with my earlier article, although it was in fact dealing with a very serious issue: the terrible performance of ref Anthony Taylor against Aston Villa.
But the doomsayers didn’t want to listen. No, they only seen one thing/person to blame: Arsenal/Wenger. Even if you show it on video they still refuse to see or refuse to accept what they can see with their own eyes.
And then you have this game today and if you now look back at the game last Saturday and if you didn’t notice the difference then you are either blind or you don’t want to see it. Maybe there are some who are blinded by hate, or by wanting to jump on a band wagon… Maybe knocking Arsenal has just become a habit.
For me as a ref I have been licking my fingers today. On Saturday I was pulling my thinning hair out on seeing how Taylor screwed us over and over and over and over and over again. Today I sat here admiring the ref. Now I don’t say that he got every decisions right. And in fact I don’t expect this even. But not once could you feel that he was out on a mission. With Taylor on Saturday I felt that he had something in his head with only a few minutes played.
On Saturday we lost the game with almost the same team as started today. So why this difference? Now you might argue that the Turkish league is shit. But then again this team reached the semi final of the Europa League last season. So they can’t be completely shit.
So from whence came the difference in the performance and in the result? The playing style? Well no because Fenerbache played a very defensive game in fact. They were sitting back on many occasions and I felt this strange for a team playing at home. In fact the same way Villa played: defending deep and trying to catch us on the break. So this couldn’t be the difference today.
We always play our own game. You remember the critics of Wenger note that we always play the same. So this couldn’t have been the difference also.
So the only thing that was really different today compared to last Saturday was….the ref.
I have been critical of many refs in the past but this was a ref performance that I would like to see every week. Very strict for both teams. At no moment in this game did I feel that the ref was doing something against one team. I admit I have enjoyed the Arsenal performance very much and the way the whole team worked their socks off to take the lead and then defend the lead once we got it.
But the best thing on the day was the fact that the ref had as unbiased game as can be.
And this is the perfect example that when we have a good and most of all an UNBIASED REF that this team can do it.
So some may stick their heads in the sand if they wish. I know that a ref can have a major influence on the result of a game. And today’s game proved this completely.
I w
ill leave it for that for now. I’m off to celebrate this victory as I celebrate every victory. And I will drink one extra drink to toast on the ref. Cheers ref, thanks for having a great game and thanks for proving me right. And thanks for proving all the blind and blinded wrong.
Come on you Gunners!
The books…
- Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football – Arsenal’s early years
- Making the Arsenal – how the modern Arsenal was born in 1910
- The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal FC: crowd behaviour at the early matches
- Royal Arsenal: from the Common to the Manor. Coming next.
The sites from the same team…
- Referee Decisions – just what are the refs up to this season?
- The Arsenal History Blog from the AISA Arsenal History Society
Just seen Webb sending a player of in the way MU players attacked Arsenal players on numerous occasions like on Sagna with the ripped shirt. Well well well….
Damn I go off topic in the first comment.. sorry .. oh well 😉
This ref was a breath of fresh air. Maybe a bit lenient, but only a bit. My commentator said he is 2nd best referee in Italy.
Well done Arsenal. And with a lead like that we shouldn’t have to worry about the second leg.
This is the Arsenal team that I saw pre-season. This is the Arsenal team that will do great things this season. Fuck Anthony Taylor. He ruined our opening day but he didn’t break our spirit. Well done boys!
I continue to believe in and support my team!
Rupert Cook,
Agreed about not having to worry about the return leg. They will have to score 3 unreplied goals to force extra time. I think this is a done deal.
But then I am not a professional worrier or a gloomer. I leave the worrying to the experts 🙂
Strus,
I saw a very professional performance from the ref. I don’t really have a problem with leniency but it must be evenly applied.
Again, fuck Anthony Taylor!
What a coincidence – we play with a non-english ref, away from the Emirates’ negativity, and the team does extremely well. As in pre-season.
@Bootoomee
‘This is the Arsenal team that I saw pre-season.’
And in the first 15 minutes against Villa until Taylor f****d us over.
According to Merson in the post match comments Villa thoroughly deserved their win on Saturday, can you believe that! And whilst he gave Arsenal some credit for tonights performance he did say that Fenerbache were very poor so it shouldn’t paper over the cracks.
Here’s what I said about the ref on the other article
“Should have been a red card for the Fener player (Wobe? Wome?) But apart from that, I think the ref did a good job keeping the game flowing by giving yellow cards when required to stop any excessive physicality.”
I also thought that the penalty for us was absolutely the correct decision. My initial thought was penalty, but unlucky in that the player only ran into Walcott. But he also had a little kick, so I thought the right call.
No agenda from the ref today. I know Arsenal won and that makes me happy. But not having to worry about a referee deciding the result of the game, makes me even happier. This is football. Saturday wasn’t.
Bore off Walter and change the record.Good performance from the team tonight especially Ramsey and Walcott.
Walter
I wasn’t watching, but apparently in the Chelsea Villa game, Villa were denied a penalty. Something to keep an eye on.
So, if we’re competing for the title with Chelsea (I think they are favourites) We’ve been denied 3 points, and they (maybe) have been helped by 2 points. So we have a 5 point disadvantage already this season due to the referee ‘errors’ that always ‘even out in the end’
So there is a ref in Europe who doesn’t hate Arsenal. Some of you need medical help on here.
Mick,
Fuck Merson too. He is an idiot. I have said before that we were flying in those first 15 minutes before the asshole messed it all up. Fuck Anthony Taylor again.
Is Aston Villa away from home better than Fenerbahce in their own stadium and in their own country? Fuck all the dishonest pundits.
ANd you need to learn some manners.
Matt, if some on here, in your opinion “need medical help”, that makes you, someone who hangs out at the asylum, does it not?
As I indicated on the previous thread, this is an excellent result and well done to the team to overcome Fenebache in a hostile arena – and they did especially well to keep their concentration after all the vile AAA propaganda they (and we) have had to endure this week.
Walter, you are right about the ref, like you I am going to celebrate – a wee dram of single malt Scotch!
Matt,
Now you want to silence Walter but you were happy to crucify the team and manager to death after Saturday’s result. I recall you chasing me all over to debate how terrible the team was. You are not in position to tell a positive fan to “bore off” now that a NORMAL officiating has vindicated his position.
Not after your tirades of the past few days. Just take some days off (like I did) and return when the team loses again.
Strus,
Lenient or not, the ref applied the rules equally which is 99% of the struggle.
Shard,
Good point about net effect of penalties given and not given, especially against direct rivals.
I am really impress with the performance of Arsenal. Also kudo to the officiating unlike our match against Villa that the referee Anthony spoilt.
Merson is still off his face, ignore him.
I remember in the build up to the draw for the qualifiers and everyone was saying I’d take anyone except Fenerbahce, they are the team to avoid (I naturally corrected them in that we are the team to avoid) – now after tonight they say “well, it was only Fenerbahce so don’t get excited”.
I wouldn’t even call that double standards, I’d just call it being a c*nt!
Mick,
I please you, leave the blog you are annoying, really!
Great game, Ramsey bossed the midfield,and he does have more than an engine, fir those saying this bullshit.
Oh Walter,u remember like two years ago when you were defending this player with tony and people came here and called u deluded. Its a shame Wenger didnt listen to them.
sczezney were brilliant and so is sagna when playing out of position.
what is wrong with podolski? Something is worrying me, is he injured?
As for the ref, thank you for doing your job, we are not used to your kind of ref who only do their job.
fair play to wobe, i guess his name is, although he hit kosienly on the face, he wasnt an animal just like in the premierleague, swearing at the ref, all he cared about is to check on kosienly and he looked annoyed at himself.
I love threads with short and straight forward comments which are usually positive. The long theses writers may just take a few days off now that we have a thoroughly well deserved positive result.
Long may it continue.
And by the way, who all were saying last year that Ramsey is useless? Deadwood? Please show us your faces so we can laugh right in them..
Yassin,
Did you really mean Mick?
Merson hit the nail on the head, good win but let’s not paper over the cracks because despite how bad fernebache were they could easily sneaked in a couple. Tougher tests await starting on Saturday.
Still don’t want to take anything away from the lads tonight… Well done reds. Ramsey was immense.
Just can’t believe you lot are still talking about the refs like a load of loons. Merson takes his kids to most home games and financially supports the club he loves unlike you keyboard warriors. You lot need to realise you are not superior fans because you follow Wenger like slap dog.
Yassin
Great comment.
Yassin,
I agree about Wome too. It was reckless but not intentional. And he was truly remorseful. I think the yellow was appropriate. A red, apart from being undeserved, would have ruined the spirit of the game at that point. Besides, the AAA would be shouting from the rooftops about how we only won because an opposition player was sent off.
Oh yeah..except for naming Mick.. I think you meant Matt, who seems like he’s struggling to contain his frustration at today’s result.
If there was ever any doubts that Matt is a child, he just removed them all by descending into name calling.
@ botoomee and mick
Sorry my bad, i meant matt, he is too annoying
Just seen Villa equalize against the Chavs.
CHELSEA IN CRISIS!
Bootoomee
And he’s one of ‘those’. I spend money on Arsenal so I am a better fan than you… Some people..
I can’t believe I wasted my time talking to him all this time. Should learn to identify brick walls or blockheads better.
Why because I stand up for an Arsenal legend being belittled by the likes of you Boo. Your a naive fan who has very little understanding of Arsenal except for what you have read on the net.
Just out of interest Shard when did you last go to a game?
LOL @Matt
the clown in the Untold circus today
you can see the frustration in his posts…
Bootoomee @10.47
I understood why the referee gave yellow. I thought it should have been a red, even though I recognised that Wome’s concern was genuine and that he didn’t mean it. However, that is an excellent point about what the story of the match would have been if the red had been given.
None of your business pal. I have nothing to prove to anyone. Least of all you.
Matt, research disinhibition.
@ bootoomee
Yes i think it was debatable if its red or yellow, but like you mentioned, yellow seemed better.
@ shard
Thanks, yes i surely mean Matt, i cant understand what is his motive to come here and be annoying. I used to read a lot of blogs before, but now am just stuck here and at arseblog, cause i agree and support this blog cause and general ideas, and love the debate between the people who comment here, but not anymore due to Matt types.
sorry for any mistake in my posts, am just writing on my phone, and sorry Mick again.
Coming from you Walter that’s a compliment. Exactly Shard
Refs. If ever there was any doubt these men in the middle are out to screw us then look no further than these last two games. I think last season was very similar too; terrible results in the prem sharply contrasted by very good results in the champions league.
Good result, well done lads!
Meant the start of last season…..
@ Matt,
You know Arsene Wenger is a legend too, but your type of people always say that the club is bigger than everyone.
And may god keep this peace on this blog forever and keep the AAAs away by making Arsenal win every game.
Back to Chelsea. Maybe we should make it 6 points difference. Chelsea’s winner was scored by Ivanovic, who should have had a red card before that. And Villa were denied a penalty. And would you believe that I read that in a UK newspaper? Darren Lewis is a Spud though, so he probably thinks his team can win the title and wants to highlight Chelsea’s ‘luck’ as well.
Yassin,
And this atheist says a big Amen 🙂
Since Walcot likes to write stories fir the kids, he may start with the next story as the career of Aaron Ramsey.
When I was watching this man playing today, I just remembered that day I hope to never come again when he was on the floor and Cesc was having his hands on head. I just skimmed his career in a moment from the double fracture, to being under huge huge pressure from Cesc departure, and the fans blaming him fo everything and booing and wanting to sell him, and he still kept working and look what a lad he is now. I believe his story is something to inspire young kids, not only in football. Respect to him, and to Wenger and the club for giving him full support.
I love Arsenal to win trophies, but this i like more, this respect and loyalty from our club, the class we have is something more important to me than trophies is.
Yassin wrote:
“I love Arsenal to win trophies, but this i like more, this respect and loyalty from our club, the class we have is something more important to me than trophies is.”
This has always been my position on Arsenal. Trophies will come. Birmingham City, Wigan and Portsmouth won trophies for goodness sake. Our time will come but our class is eternal.
I love Arsenal; in defeat and victory, trophy or no trophy.
I am really worried at Kosienly now, after reading the post match interview of Wenger.
Hope he is ok, and its not a big injury.
Yassin and Bootoomee
I agree with both of you. I have seen an earlier Chelsea fan lose his enthusiasm for the money and trophy riddled Chelsea team. I never want to feel like that. I want, more than anything, to feel proud of Arsenal. Trophies can contribute to that. But they are in no way essential.
Class is so hard to define. If someone asks me, I don’t think I’ll be able to explain. But when you have it, you know it. And we should preserve that.
Good game, but it doesn’t paper over the cracks.
EPL refereeing is absolutely shit….as evidenced by Chelsea getting a free meal ticket against Villa…
Does anyone else think that Merson sounds like he is on Temazepam?
Well done boys. Great result in one of the toughest places in the world to play. A lot of stick over the last few days, from every angle. None of it though was aimed at the players who I believe always give 100% for rhe cause. Ps. To the board.. lets push on now. Go and help this great bunch of players and great manager.. strengthen the squad like they deserve and give them the best possible chance to push on. If we over pay for certain players this window ar least we can never be accused of not trying our best. Come on the gooners!! Theres a lot of begrudgers need shutting up. Lets do it this year…
@ marcus,
I dont think it is papering over the crack, I believe ( from my simple knowledge of how A.Wenger usually acts),and based on today post match interview, it was risk Wenger took in order to get the best price for each player he buys, and to get the best he can. And i agree that the price matters cause although we have money in the bank, we need to spend it ti cover all the cracks. Moreover, bidding 40 million on Suarez ( although i dont like to see him in an Arsenal shirt) is simply enough to show that Arsenal means business and not willing not to buy. Plus its obvious we will buy, we are short in numbers, even Wenger stated that.
Am sorry, for clarification, the risk in the above post is the waiting until the end of transfer window.
great performance, great result. Ramsey, cazorla, sagna, jenks, gibbs and scszesny were awesome! I’m a sworn optimist, no matter aw bad some situations may appear, i stay calm and always see d glass half full, hence i’m glad d team won 2nyt! Tony and walter u guyz r amazing, looking 4ward 2 seeing u some day! COYG
marcus
But it evened out for Villa you see.
Haha Shard.
It is indeed a bitter irony.
However, if it did ‘even out’ one day for Arsenal, I reckon about 3 European Cups and 10 EPL titles should just about re-equilibrate the cosmos
I think you guys need to check Aston Villa’s Yoursay page out. Just for laughs and lack of self awareness.
http://www.teamtalk.com/aston-villa/yoursay
I meant check out the lack of self awareness.
oh that’s just perfect. Ivanovic scored an offside goal, after he should have been sent off for an elbow, for which he received a yellow card so that no further action can be taken. Villa were denied a penalty for a handball by Terry, which should also be a red. So Chelsea get 3 undeserved points, and Ivanovich won’t miss 3 games as he should, and Terry won’t miss the 1 game that he should. That’s just the EPL in a neat little nutshell.
@Bootome Oh poor villa and delusional Chelsea fans too its the I bought the ref premier league cup again…
A very predictable outcome for AFC for the following reasons:
1)The players were collectively pissed off at the debacle last Saturday and an angry team is a dangerous one as Fenerbache found out.
2)A FIFA referee is ¨la creme de la creme¨ of referees since there are only 7 per country and therefore they are almost always world class. In the PGMO there are usually ass-kissers at the top and servile sycophants kissing their asses…hope everyone can see the difference?
3)I noticed that outside the Emirates ONLY our most positive and loyal supporters go to our games…the players know that and their spirits are up. At the Emirates, there are a minority of hypocrites calling themselves supporters and they shame us Gooners by their spiteful behaviour.
4)Ramsey was desperately wanted by United and SAF but he CHOSE the Arsenal because we are committed to a youth development approach and Wenger is renown for treating his players with class, loyalty and patience. Ramsey is now rewarding Wenger’s patience and support….and the best is yet to come!
5)We now have a justly earned reputation in Europe for coming into very tough home stadiums and quite often embarrassing so-called super-teams in front of their fans. AC Milan,Inter, Madrid, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, to name a few. We seem to do less well at homeso the day we do well home and away is the day we become a real threat!
6)Wenger’s teams are always well prepared for a tough match…it is the easier ones we seem to falter at. You could tell when the players came out that it was going to be a full throttle, no handbrake game from the starting whistle.
7)Finally, the team’s mental attitude and self-confidence are far less brittle than in previous years. There is a willingness to never surrender….if Wenger buys a few gems of the usual calibre, we’ll be right on target to succeed this season.
To all the “fans” who prayed and wished for Arsenal to lose tonight’s match, a big shame on you because to your everlasting sorrow, we WON.(And in style)
Walter, a BIG difference occurs when referees do their job well.
Just read on BBC that we are bidding for Benzema and Di maria. No wonder Wenger said his own transfer window has just started. Some fools like Matt ( surprised he is the only one left) would not even try and enjoy the victory. Their life must be a whole lot of sorrow. COYG
The thing some of us is so angry about this summer is that the team can perform and its not as the other say “lack of quality”, although they are not one of the top 5 in Europe they can still pull out surprising performace from time to time. Given the current team, no.2 in EPL and some cup is entirely possible and again, no.3 in EPL is “just right”.
Given the financial status, value and other ranking, this team should be one of the top five teams in Europe but at times they look like not even a team making the top 10 (or 15).
The following issues are the annoying:
1) failing to perform, that is, bring out the quality on the pitch. The game on Saturday aside, they fail against weak opponent in very miserable ways. They seem to have improved a bit last year with those “not so good looking” wins. It might be related to the signing of more experienced players. Let’s hope that continues to happen.
2) goal keeper… Ok the young keeper seems to have potential but he still has years ahead of him. The team needs someone who can give A or A+ performance immediately. If the keeper makes 5 fewer mistake or make 5 more stunning critical saves, and he is potentially contributing 5 to 15 points. That’s the single most efficient way to spend the money given the team has a more than soild back four.
3) thin bench. The team suffer every winter when several games are played in a short time, the team fails regardless which set of player is deployed. That is clearly a problem with the depth and the wound is so deep that no trophies could be won coming out of that period.
4) indecisiveness in signings. Enough is said latly.
We want the team to work. There are clearly problems on-going which is not difficult to fix but there are not covered for several years. That’s what make us angry.
Many accept that the team is putting investment into fixed asset instead of player (another form of asset) so the cash is a bit tight. However, the above problems aren’t really money related (except may be for the lack of dept problem but it is still arguable)
For me the moment of the match was Ramsey’s goal. I am very happy for him. He has worked and worked and worked for the team. Its been a long haul from the double break. Arsene believed in him and gave him the chance to prove his ability while the ‘Arsenal know alls’ were bleating for his head.
Last night we were all rewarded. I hope that having scored that goal it will give Ramsey yet more self belief as a goal scorer, and more goals will come for.
The game against Villa was not a poor performance but a ref doing his best to prevent arsenal from performing and to ensure that Villa won. The game against Fener was a good performance with a ref that was fair and not trying to manipulate the result. Arsenal can win the EPL if the refs are fair but if the refs are manipulating then it will be almost impossible and this is a travesty.
When a ref throws a game as Taylor did there ought to be an investigation by the authorities into why and into finding how is behind such things.
An important win and after we complete the job at home , I think that Fenabache will be found guilty and the ban upheld. The AAAs will then come here and say that it was a double dead rubber to start with !
Oh ! Sorry , ‘they’ exist only in our immagination just like good competent EPL refs !Or ‘fans’ who only piss off others because they want whats best for Arsenal !
Nice and cheerful here today , by the way !Lovely comments from the usual gang whlie ,’others’ are trying to get their feet out of the mouths and brains out of theit arses !
As for Arsenal legends who clain that the club are papering over the cracks , what are they sniffing now ? If only they had pepper over their crack then – I’d bet they would be much more clear headed now .
And thats snot a joke !
Exactly…
Nice article.
Try playing 90 mins with the ref’s finger constantly in front of yer face and the opposition constantly going for yer leg , i bet those haters would loose their mind at 05minute mark.
But not we, we still pressing even down 1 player, how about that?
Well, haters gonna hate…
Coming off work, I just watched the recording and I’m amazed by the way the team behaved. They just went about their job and did it brilliantly. The Fox commentators were totally puzzled – I guess they secretly hoped for Arsenal to falter, but their mean wish didn’t come true. In the end, all they could do was to acknowledge that Arsenal are as good as qualified. That for me doubled the victory.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Wenger would field a few youngsters in the return leg. Not only to take some pressure off the main players, but I’d like to see them getting a run at top level when they have the opportunity.
Well done guys! Blow the AAA all the way back into their sewers!
How legends fall……
Last Kiss…
Back on January 9th, some Pekin, Illinois bikers were riding west on I-74 when they saw a girl about to jump off the Murray Baker Bridge. So they stopped.
George, their leader, a big burly man of 53, gets off his Harley, walks through a group of gawkers, past the State Trooper who was trying to talk her down off the railing, and says, “Hey Baby…..whatcha doin’ up there on that railin’?”
She says tearfully, “I’m going to commit suicide!!”
While he didn’t want to appear “sensitive,” George also didn’t want to miss this “be-a-legend” opportunity either so he asked …”Well, before you jump, Honey-Babe…why don’t you give ole George here your best last kiss?”
So, with no hesitation at all, she leaned back over the railing and did just that … and it was a long, deep, lingering kiss followed immediately by another even better one.
After they breathlessly finished, George gets a big thumbs-up approval from his biker-buddies, the onlookers, and even the State Trooper, and then says, “Wow! That was the best kiss I have ever had, Honey! That’s a real talent you’re wasting, Sugar Shorts. You could be famous if you rode with me. Why are you committing suicide?”
“My parents don’t like me dressing like a girl.”
It’s still unclear whether she jumped or was pushed??
This game was more like it. Thanks to the boys… I love it when Rambo proves the doubters wrong!
WARNING: NEVER NEVER NEVER DRINK WHILE YOU ARE READING A BRICKFIELDS GUNNERS COMMENT!!!!
I should have known, I should have known but you still got me. 🙂 🙂
Now I have to clean my computer screen and my desk 🙁 😉
LOL
Maybe we should put this warning on the site Tony?
Great article!For me, the moment of the match was Ramsey’s goal.
Walter, a BIG difference occurs when referees do their job well.
Did you see Matt saying we need medical help by the way Brickfields?
What is the cure for moanitis? Hot baths? Cold showers? Arsenal winning? The last one not as Matt still is moaning. Maybe it is incurable? Give us your medical opinion on that if possible. After all some need help.
@Shard, we’re competing for the title with City, Utd, Spuds and Chelsea and unless we bolster the squad in the next few days we’ll not be competing with them. We have injuries to two vital components of the team (Ox and Arteta) and that needs to be addressed smartly and now we are virtually assured of CL football that shouldn’t be such a problem. And that isn’t a criticism of the current team but it’s far too thin to spread over four competitions in a season.
Regarding your comment about a Chelsea fan deserting his
team I know one too. He detests the money-mad EPL and now supports AFC Wimbledon.
Walter,
As a former psychologist frequenter, I can tell you that for this disease there are two ways (well, until Brickfield figures out a third): strong action against, which unfortunately is against the rules of democracy (believe me, I lived for 18 years in a communist country), or complete isolation. I would recommend the latter:)
Obviously, I meant there are two ways to cure. I’m still drinking my wine in dedication to the victory:)
Now that’s a performance consistent with what we were seeing pre-season; those high scoring wins in Asia, the dismantling of Man City….How does one then explain the debacle against Villa? Its obvious, an EPL ref. I want to stay positive but I’m afraid we have not seen the last,or worst, of these refs, with 37 games still to play. Something ought to be done, anything to bring the world’s attention to this corruption. Maybe a peaceful march/demo in London? That would certainly raise some questions, if not eyebrows. I’d be more than happy to attend.
I know my idea sounds a little crazy, but we need to realize it’ll only take something crazy to stop the rot. In order not to attract unwanted attention on our club we can invite other clubs’ fans too. Or some of us could wear other teams’ jerseys on the day. The whole thing shouldn’t be Arsenal-centric, but just a plea by footy fans to bring sanity/fairness into the game & ensure nothing corrupt is afoot in the game.
Like Rupert said, a friend of a friend has been fighting his battle over the last 20 yrs by taking it to parliament, with some tangible results. That’s what we need, practical action. We could sit on our backsides and moan about this till our voices are hoarse, or go out there and do something about it.
The whole idea is to throw this into the firmly into the spotlight; it’ll make some journos think hang on, there could be a story here and start an investigation. Even if it didn’t the refs themselves might be forced to tone down a little if they think the world is watching.
Don’t wish to hijack this thread, but I believe the refs are getting more & more brazen. Our game v villa had 3 key wrong decisions all benefiting one team, and I hear yesterday’s encounter involving Chelsea had a similar number of key wrong calls all benefiting one team. So two games with 6 incorrect decisions, all major ones too, is no coincidence. And we are only half a week into a new season. At this rate its clear to see things will only get worse. Anyway, off to work i go, where one key mistake can result in my dismissal!
Al,
a very interesting point.
We had 9 games so far since pre-season
We won 6 games all done by not English refs
We had one draw: done with an English ref (Taylor by the way)
We had two losses: done with English refs (One of them again Taylor by the way)
Of course it is a coincidence and some will suggest I need medical help 😉
I’ve always said this, Give us a fair game. If ref has a bad game, it should effect both the teams. If it doesnt, then somethings fishy.
I’ve also maintained that Ramsey-Wilshere midfield partnership is the one that will take us forward. Today, rather yesterday we had the first glimpse of that. A few more games together and a fully fit Wilshere will be a massive for ARSENAL.
Where are those posters from the Saturday???….Who claimed Ramsey is shit……Now eat that shit.
@Walter, all that shows is that English refs are poor. Also we played some absolute rubbish pre season with the exception of City and the Emirates Cup. Those games we should take as a barometer of our potential and on that basis we look pretty good.
@Al, that friend of a friend dedicated his life to the injustice done to him. It also ruined his life. That’s a heavy price to pay. To get action against refs you’d probably need cross fan support, that is fans of at least half the EPL teams to be on side otherwise the press would paint it as sour grapes on Arsenal’s part.
I beg to differ slightly with you Rupert with your view all it shows is English refs are poor. Yes we know they’re poor, but their incompetence seems to be applied selectively, wherein lies the problem. As Walter suggests, there’s more to it than just coincidences and poor officiating.
Regarding the ruin brought on your friend, he’s obviously doing that as a one man show, at a cost to his productive life. We wouldn’t need to keep going and do a demo in London, just a one off should suffice. You are right in that it would require all fans and not just Arsenal fans. But how about say a group of 50 agree to take part, I, and sure a few would too, would happily wear an opposing team’s jersey just to prove its not Arsenal fans only. I know its slightly mischievous, but the refs are being that way with the whole world watching and noone bats an eyelid. I’d feel dirty, and possibly a little violated afterwards, but I think the potential benefits will far outweigh my discomfort.
@Al, I’d wear an Oxford strip, couldn’t bring myself to wear another EPL club’s colours.
Walter , Florian , I had wanted to step in when a doctor was called for but I did not want to take the case as I am not insured for treatment renderd over the internet !
But I’m all for option one (as given below )as it may stop it from spreading ! Then again better get a Second Opinion!
The doctor said, ‘Joe, the good news is I can cure your headaches.
The bad news is that it will require castration. You have a very rare condition, which causes your testicles to press on your spine and the pressure creates one hell of a headache. The only way to relieve the pressure is to remove the testicles.’
Joe was shocked and depressed. He wondered if he had anything to live for.
He had no choice but to go under the knife.
When he left the hospital, he was without a headache for the first time in 20 years, but he felt like he was missing an important part of himself.
As he walked down the street, he realised that he felt like a different person.
He could make a new beginning and live a new life.
He saw a men’s clothing store and thought, ‘That’s what I need… A new suit…’
He entered the shop and told the salesman, ‘I’d like a new suit’.
The elderly tailor eyed him briefly and said, ‘Let’s see… Size 44 long.’
Joe laughed, ‘That’s right, how did you know?’
‘Been in the business 60 years!’ the tailor said.
Joe tried on the suit it fit perfectly. As Joe admired himself in the mirror, the salesman asked, ‘How about a new shirt?’
Joe thought for a moment and then said, ‘Sure.’
The salesman eyed Joe and said, ‘Let’s see, 34 sleeves and 16-1/2 neck.’
Joe was surprised, ‘That’s right, how did you know?’
‘Been in the business 60 years.’
Joe tried on the shirt and it fit perfectly.
Joe walked comfortably around the shop and the salesman asked, ‘How about some new underwear?’
Joe thought for a moment and said, ‘Sure.’
The salesman said, ‘Let’s see… Size 36.
Joe laughed, ‘Ah ha! I got you! I’ve worn a size 34 since I was 18 years old.’
The salesman shook his head, ‘You can’t wear a size 34. A size 34 would press your testicles up against the base of your spine and give you one hell of a headache.’
New suit – £400
New shirt – £36
New underwear – £10
Second Opinion – PRICELESS
I always felt like Mark Halsey was one of the good guys. I don’t remember ever getting the impression that he was tilting a game while I was watching. Although I don’t know what his ref review numbers are like, that has always been my impression.
I met him recently, very briefly, and he comes across as a decent, humble, person. His views on BT during the Emirates Cup were entirely fair, and I am going to buy his book when it comes out (has it already?)
He refused to take a 50k pound retirement payment that comes with a gagging order, and is now free to air his views on refereeing. He is a clear supporter of technology, and wants referees to be able to speak to the media. Keep at it Halsey. More openness in the refereeing world is what we need.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10241021/I-wish-I-could-have-given-my-explainations-for-that-tackle-says-former-Premier-League-referee-Mark-Halsey.html
Nice link ,Shard , many thanks .Hope he gets to open up as time goes on .
And talking of ballless –
A guy goes to interview for a Government job.
The interviewer asks him, “Are you a veteran?”
The guy says, “Why yes, in fact, I served two tours in Vietnam.”
“Good,” says the interviewer, “That counts in your favor. Do you have any service-related disabilities?”
The guy says, “In fact I am 100% disabled. During a battle, an explosion removed my private parts so they declared me disabled, it doesn’t affect my ability to work, though.”
“Sorry to hear about the damage, but I have some good news for you, I can hire you right now ! Our working hours are 8 to 4. Come on in about 10, and we’ll get you started.”
The guy says, “If working hours are from 8 to 4, why do you want me to come at 10?”
” Well, here at the government, we don’t do anything but sit around and scratch our balls for the first two hours. No point of your coming in for that !”
Just to bring a little perspective to the debate around refs and in particular the Chelsea /Villa situation.
I was at last nights game and whilst I wont argue that Ivan could and probably should have been sent off that incident was just one of many where the ref let high elbow contact go without proper sanction indeed most of Chelsea defence were guilty but as was Benteke on numerous occasions.
As for the Terry incident yes it was handball but without question Terry was fouled as he tried to jump for the ball so perhaps he let one balance against the other
Villa hunt the ball very well but just like in the game against you there game plan is geared to the counter attack and I very much doubt they will be the same at home so expect them to gain more points away from home than at Villa Park. In a way had Chelsea gone down to 10 it possibly would have helped Chelsea as Villa may well have opened up something they didn’t really till very late in the game and at which point they really were open to the counter attack
Chelsea were by far the better team last night and yes Villa had a couple of decent chances but these were more than matched in numbers by Chelsea.(Chelsea 15 shots Villa 7)
Squad depth will be an issue but get below Villas first choice eleven and there isn’t much else and in particular if Benteke gets an injury their whole game plan is out the window.
Oh and Shrad even if the ref had given the penalty the most Terry would have been given would have been a yellow card and as he hadn’t been booked already there is no way he would have been sent off so therefore no suspension
@ Mike Thomas
Go and sit in the corner Mike. Dont you know all the refs,media,FA,UEFA @ FIFA are corrupt and against Arsenal and for Chelsea that’s why you win trophies and we dont.
Haven’t you read all of Walter’s irrefutable evidence.
Some people !!
Just like fans, refs are influenced by the media and the agenda set therein. The media tidal wave of anti Arsenal propaganda is so affecting that it has saddly even turned many a normally sane and loyal fan against the Club they used to (note I say used to)love and support. When a tidal wave of hatred and vitrial such as this rolls in it is more than just the fans that are effected. It effects others too, includeing managers, (check out the ludicrous accusations of disrespect etc. thrown at Wenger for simply enquireing about a player, that would never be thrown at Fergie/Moyes, Jose etc; despite both openly stateing there interest in players, a la Jose’s comments on Rooney and Moyes on Cesc) and refs.
In short a ref knows if he has a mare AGAINST Arsenal he will escape totally unscathed with his reputation firmly intact,(Read Merson, Sheerer, just 2 who saw no fault in Taylor whatsoever) infact, in many quarters he will be held up as a bastian of honesty and fair play. Yet dare he GIVE a dodgey decision in our favour and it will be disected to the umpth degree on MOTD, Goals on Sunday etc. just to prove how wrong the ref was and rolling out the old favourite ‘Big Clubs Get All The Decisions’ line.
The refs are only human, well sort of, and are bound to be influenced by this.
I know I’ll get stick for this but I firmly believe that every ref goes into an Arsenal game knowing he is on a hideing to nothing if he is percieved in anyway whatsoever to have favoured Arsenal. Conversely he knows just as well that, as Taylor proved, you can basicly have the game from hell and screw Arsenal over at every turn, and still actually come out of it unscathed, as some kind of Hero even.
I have for some time said that to put an end to this ludicrous situation all PL matches should be ref’d by foriegn referees. They should fly in the Night before a match and fly home straight after the game. They HAVE to be isolated from the pro UTD, Chelsea/Jose anti arsenal circus that consumes the PL.
I don’t think our refs are THAT bad. Some are pretty good and taken out of the pressures and influences of the PL, such as internationals and CL games, they do okay. They certainly as a general rule give much better ballanced performances. NO AGENDA.
As I say, I know I’ll get a lot of stick for this. Paranoid etc. but I truely believe our refs are effectively refing us under duress and that cant be right !!!
Thanks for that link Shard.
Halsey…a ref that was letting too many things go according to me. Bad positioning due to his age? I think it will have played a part.
But in the interview he asks the same thing as I (and Untold) do: use the technology to help the ref out there.
this sentence is what it is all about: “That’s all you want as a ref: to get it right.”
And only refs who have less honourable intentions are against using technology.
Walter , another reason that doctors don’t get to treat the AAAs is …..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3wSIDA-9BQ
Walter
Halsey made some poor decision no doubt, but did you ever get the impression he was purposely favouring one team over another? That’s a genuine question. I don’t remember him doing it.
Mike Thomas
Yeah, I made a mistake in reading the reports (it was late) I though Terry handled on the line. I haven’t watched that game, and don’t think I ever will, so whatever. You find it easier to justify (or bring perspective to) those decisions because you are a)a Chelsea fan, and more importantly b)speaking in favour of what happened rather than what could/should/would have happened.
@Matt
You are right silly me!
I don’t go with all this the world has it for anyone. I think that irrespective some you get and some you don’t. I played football to quite a high standard and I know that was the case despite our supporters view that the ref more often than not had it against us.
For every good decision we, Chelsea, get I will give you examples of have been badly treated we have been.
Every supporter has bias, every manager has bias its part of the defence we often apply to justify to others and even more often to ourselves why we didn’t get the result.
The real danger is when you get so hung up about how the world and his wife are against you that you totally ignore the views of others who voice an opinion because it doesn’t fit with your understanably biased view
I do however feel that the refs should come out and explain why they did or didn’t give decisions of high importance for say the ref who gave the Villa penalties explained that he gave it for the contact that Shearer referred to on match of the day what would people then think? Would they still maintain it was a terrible mistake?.Would they through gritted teeth say ok? Or would they still continue to subscribe to the conspiracy theory?
I believe if the season started at Christmas last season we would of been runners up.
I believe we had the second best defence in the PL
I believe we scored 2nd most goals
Last Night we won 3-0 in a match that pre kick of was said to be a really tough game and possibly the toughest of all the possible oponants we could of drawn.
So basically the hiccup against Villa that was at the very least influenced by a very poor refereeing display was merely that, a hiccup, and yet despite all the above, according to MERSON our defence is crap, our attack is crap and all last night did was ‘paper over the cracks’.
And thats what it’s like in the media, one bad result in a pretty much imaculate last eight months and we are in ‘crisis’
Because of one game, the very impressive defensive record of the last few months is basically ignored as if it did’nt happen. The fact we scored many many goals is ignored because we struggled in ONE game!
Yes Merson is an ignorant **** but there are many other ex gunners in the media who just sit and listen to this shit. Dont tell me Charlie Nic does’nt know what an impressive last few months Arsenal have in fact had, yet he sits and listens to it, even adds to it. Even the Romford pele, one of my all time hereos has succumbed to the £ and sits and swallows that Wanker durhams shite day after day. What is it with our x’s ??? They moan about the team yet they are more spineless, gutless and dishonest than any of the guys they have the temerity to critisise.
Wright
Merson
Smith
Nicolas
Stewart
I do Not hold one of these x players with one ounce of respect. They mock, ridicule, and critisise at every turn. They can never see a possitive when there is a 1% chance of finding the negative. What did Wenger ever do to these people to deserve such bile and spite?
We lost to Villa for more reasons than just the ref!
To try to claim it was all the ref’s fault is just denying the truth and frankly makes you look foolish at best but stupid at worst.
We lost because we didn’t play well. We were sloppy, we gifted possession to Villa and they benefited from questionable decisions. What I would say is that the penalty decisions that went against us were not ‘clearly’ wrong, there have been hundreds of similarly contentious decisions made, it’s just that we had two of them in one game.
The ref didn’t cause Cazorla to get caught in possession or Ramsey and Wilshere to miss place passes, neither did he cause our players to miss goal scoring opportunities.
We were the cause of our own downfall to an extent. The reason of course was the lack of transfer activity.
Had we signed one of Villa or Higuain they probably would have converted one or two of the chances we had because they are both better than what we’ve got! They would have strengthened our squad immediately.
Likewise, if we had signed a goalkeeper, centre back or defensive midfielder earlier in the summer the players would have trained together, started to build an understanding and it would benefit the whole squad.
Our own players are being quoted as saying they will welcome new signings, what does that tell you about their own beliefs in the strength of the squad? Because remember it’s their own places that would be at threat by new signings, yet they are still callings for them!
Let’s wait and see what Saturday brings, what with Koscielny suspended. I guess Sagna will cover for him but if we suffer any further injuries or suspensions (especially at the back) we are in real trouble for the Spurs game.
I would suggest that the author remembers that while the result against an awful Fenerbahce side was positive and undoubtedly much needed for Wenger, as much as the players “one swallow does not a summer make”.
Mark Kitching
We lost the Villa game due to more than the referee’s fault. Yes we made mistakes. But once you have a game with a ref favouring one team in virtually every decision he makes, everything else is meaningless.
Arsenal’s mistakes are part of the game, and can be analysed. But a bent ref is not a part of the game. Once that happens, the game becomes invalidated, because what was happening on that pitch on Saturday wasn’t football. It is beyond a few decisions like a wrongly awarded penalty. That was not football, because the referee was not a referee at all. He was an active, deliberate, participant in influencing the game. Ignore it if you want because you’d rather focus on Arsenal. But Arsenal and their performances don’t exist in a vacuum.
Mike Thomas,
then you should like the reports on this site and on the refereedecisions website.
Reviews of games done by refs (a majority of not-Arsenal supporting refs) over two seasons.
Now I must say that so far we didn’t find much teams where it did even out.
Stay tuned for the Chelsea report in a few days time (probably at the end of next week)
or check the main page for the report of the season before and a direct link to the Chelsea report http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/23006
oh that’s just perfect. Ivanovic scored an offside goal, after he should have been sent off for an elbow, for which he received a yellow card so that no further action can be taken. Villa were denied a penalty for a handball by Terry, which should also be a red. So Chelsea get 3 undeserved points, and Ivanovich won’t miss 3 games as he should, and Terry won’t miss the 1 game that he should. That’s just the EPL in a neat little nutshell.
All this and you haven’t even seen the game or highlights Shard.
Is this how you support all your facts ? Newspaper reports? Farscical.
@Mike Thomas, you’re not an ex Arsenal player are you?
Matt
So now you understand what the word ‘fact’ means anyway. You can thank me later.
Thanks for that!!
Did you see the Arsenal game? Just so i know?
Maybe I didn’t Matt. That would invalidate everything I ever said, right? No matter how true it might have been. Shucks..
@Matt – You really are a charming chap Why should anybody listen to you. Any good points you make (there are a few) are lost because you just wind people up.
I like @Walters articles (and Tony’s too). I don’t agree with everything he/they write but so what! I admire the optimism and positivity. The refereeing articles challenge my own thinking and I very much like that.
Team did well last night. Much more disciplined compared to Saturday. I suspect that this is down to Wenger and Bould than the referee but yes the ref did have a good game. Very pleased for Ramsey. I am a big supported of his. The squad does need improving but Wenger knows this…he said so. Lets see who comes in. If we have this squad on Septmber 2nd I will be dissapointed but I dont think that is going to happen. The next few weeks will be interesting.
Nobody has to listem to me if they dont want to it’s there choice.
Come on though it’s not really on to question the ref’s descisions and what others say if you have not seen a particular game. The comments were made not in a general sense but about actual incidents he hadn’t seen.
Whether you think i am an idiot or not that seems strange to use incidents you haven’t seen to back-up an argument.
I do accept it would probably have been better not not to have brought it up though.
Jambug (@10.02am),
Not to take anything away from your comment but check out my take from 19th as reposted below. Anthony Taylor acted the way he did because he knew that he would get away with little criticism. Our own ‘fans’ are more complicit than the entire media and other anti-Arsenal forces put together.
Bootoomee
August 19, 2013 at 2:17 pm
Perhaps, the most interesting outcome of last Saturday event was how little stick the ref got for his bad calls. I somehow think that the ref is embolden by the whining of some arsenal fans and their yearning for a loss to vindicate their position on how the club should be run.
The ref was not living in a media vacuum and he must be conscious of the incessant and actually rather scandalous campaign being propagated against the club and its management for running their business as they see fit. It would be generally taken as a given that private entities should be run as the owners see fit. Well, except with Arsenal.
The entire British media and every half-wit with a keyboard and Internet access want the club to carry out its business as they want, while hoping or threating fire and brimstone if they don’t. How can any ref ever get into trouble for kicking such a club in the nuts?
The sheer amount of noise on Arsenal’s signings this pre-season and the threats by the club’s ‘fans’ are enough to give the refereee some assurance that no matter how badly he treats the team, a section of the fans as well as virtually the entire British media will ignore his atrocities on the pitch and rather blame the victim, for you know, “not signing 3-4 world class players”.
Would the ref had done the same against Celseas at the Stamford Bridge when Chelsea fans weren’t sobbing everyday about how sad life is because their club wouldn’t do one thing or the other to make them feel secure and happy? Of course not. I don’t recall even small teams getting such treatment away from home as we got on Saturday.
I read a Villan blogger’s report on the match and while applauding his team, he acknowledged that the ref royally screwed up but rather than gooners uniting to call out the robbery, the usual suspects see it as a vindication of their pre-season rantings.
What I expect next (and these guys never disappoint me) is for them to claim that Wenger is only signing players because of this result. You can always count on them to carry on like he hasn’t been saying all along that new players will arrive before TW closes. They will talk like players are signed in a couple of days, you know, like buying stuff off Amazon.com but only quicker 🙂
A house divided cannot stand but that’s only because there are usually saboteurs wrecking it from inside. I remain grateful that these people have no say in how Arsenal is run.
guys this win should not derail the FACT that arsenal need signings to better the squad.
@ Shard
“Yes we made mistakes. But once you have a game with a ref favouring one team in virtually every decision he makes, everything else is meaningless.”
Not if our newly signed, top quality striker had scored with the chances presented to him! Oh wait….
I don’t want to shatter your fantasy world but there have been far worse footballing travesties than Anthony Taylor. You cannot use him to justify the defeat when a better team, say Man Utd or Chelsea would have scored 4 and won!
Also you have no evidence (I repeat for effect NO EVIDENCE) to back up your theory that Taylor deliberately favoured Villa, it’s paranoia pure and simple. What happens the next time we are on the receiving end of bad decisions? A great team wins despite poor decisions, we are not a great team, far from it in fact.
Oh and too right I’d rather focus on Arsenal than make excuses like Wenger does time after time, season after season. With our current squad we are not good enough to win trophies. Our first 11 ‘might’ come close but how often do we actually play our first 11? We know injuries occur so that is why you fill your squad with quality, just like Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and dare I say Spurs!
Matt
Back up an argument?
I was merely expressing frustration at what seemed to be yet another game where the referee had a big hand in influencing the result. That game in itself, doesn’t make or break the argument of a damaged EPL either way.
Even if I’d seen it, you would be on about how it’s only my ‘opinion’ and not a fact. When was the last time you went to Egypt? That didn’t stop you from referencing it in your comments about Wenger being like Morsi.
Your attempts at twisting statements to mean or imply something they don’t are not just pathetic in their intent, but also in execution.All you do is look for a way that you can show yourself to be clever, which sadly ends up making you look like a fool. And a small minded, petty, one at that.
And don’t you dare pretend that this is to do with you having an alternate viewpoint. You can’t act the way you do, and then cry foul when someone calls you out on it. So don’t even try that. That would be even more pathetic.
I don’t want to shatter your fantasy world but there have been far worse footballing travesties than Anthony Taylor.
Mark Kitching
And that doesn’t bother you?
Jambug asks:
“What did Wenger ever do to these people to deserve such bile and spite?”
He is French while they are all English. End of story. If there is one ex-Gunner who should be bitter at the club, it’s Eboue but check out the class in that guy.
Fuck all the anti-Arsenal British ex-Arsenal players. Fuck them all.
Mark Kitching
In follow on to Shards response at 10.54am, we also made some mistakes during the game against Fenerbahce but as they didn’t lead to goals you wont bring that up. Mistakes happen every game and are purely momentary, a refs bias against a team is constant for 90 minutes – it makes a big difference.
@ Shard
“And that doesn’t bother you?”
It only bothers me if we can’t (as a team) overcome the performance of a referee.
Referee’s are human and make mistakes, there is definitely an argument for more technology in the game to help the ref and his assistants.
Mark Kitching wrote:
“Not if our newly signed, top quality striker had scored with the chances presented to him! Oh wait….”
It’s difficult to respond to this but I’ll try.
How did the team, without “our newly signed, top quality striker”, scored 3 goals yesterday in not just an away match but in a foreign country?
Higuain was worse than Giroud at the Emirates (I personally insist that the latter is the better striker) and Suarez wouldn’t have played anyway.
You guys need to change the tune sometime. It’s difficult to take you seriously if you have only one answer to all questions and only one solution to all problems.
“Splash the cash” or “spend the fucking money” is not the solution to all of Arsenal’s problems.
Mark kitching,
Who said it was deliberate?
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. Maybe he was having a bad day at the office which I suppose in your world makes it perfectly acceptable. Well not in mine. It is clear Refs, being human beings, are incapable of keeping up with the modern game, at least in the current format. Until we have instant video replay and refs explaining their decisions or 22 refs so one can monitor each player (I’ll let you decide for yourself which is more practical), then results are always likely to be based on the decisions made rather than the quality on the pitch. The invincibles lost a similar game.
Mark Kitching
I see. So you just care that Arsenal win, regardless of the integrity of the game. If we’d won, it wouldn’t bother you what the referee did.
Me? I want Arsenal to win. But at football. I don’t care whether they play the North or the South in a fucking reenactment of the American Civil War.
And therein we come to the nub of the problem. Be satisfied in blaming Arsenal. You are correct. Arsenal still could have won. Even Wenger said so. You can close your eyes to the rest, but do not try and stop others who would rather not.
I quote Mark Halsey in the Telegraph here:-
“If not quite as personally damaging, Halsey found himself last season in a firestorm of controversy that he believes would have been immediately resolved had he too been able to explain publicly.
It involved a tackle by Wigan’s Callum McManaman on Newcastle’s Massadio Haïdara.
Halsey, his view obstructed by another player, missed the winger’s X-rated horror stamp and did not even award a free kick.”
It’s not the refs fault his view was obstructed as play could have gone in any direction at any time but video replay would have enabled the correct decision to have been made and saved the ref alot of bad press.
Edu,
That’s great but we’re discussing something else.
@ Stuart
Yes we make mistakes in every game, like every team. I didn’t mention the mistakes in the Fenerbahce game because my comment was relating to the deficiencies in our performance against Villa and not for any other reason that you seem to be implying?
Your comment about mistakes being momentary is valid, unless you compound that mistake with another and that leads to a goal or goal scoring opportunity, exactly what happened against Villa.
Make no bones about it Fenerbahce are not as good as Villa. Our victory was as much down to their poor performance as our good performance.
Stuart
I said it was deliberate. There is no way the advantage rule is repeatedly interpreted so differently for both teams unless it is deliberate.
Mark,
So my point about mistakes is valid and yes, if you compound that mistake with another,m at times you do get goals conceded. Compound multiple mistakes from the referees and you get this also.
I just saw the goals from the Chelsea-Villa game. Ivanovich was offside but those sorts of decisions I can accept as mistakes. Which don’t make them completely alright. It’s still the wrong decision. But it is nowhere near as wrong as what was happening on Saturday.
I haven’t seen the not given penalty yet. Nor the not given red card.
Fair enough Shard, I must have missed that comment. I can see where you are coming from but can’t be bothered to go there and argue it with you.
Stuart
I don’t blame you 🙂
I was going to reply to each of you that had replied to my comments but decided it was a waste of my time.
We have very differing opinions on what Arsenal needs.
I take the view that we as fans have been royally screwed over by the club for years. I might be wrong but to me it seems that you are willing to continue accepting whatever Wenger says, based presumably on loyalty to him for all the great things he has done for the club over the years?
It’s easy to label me as a person who just wants the club to spend money and make all our problems go away when that’s not at all what I believe.
Yes, we obviously need new players, not kids but proven quality.
But we need far greater change than just players, the way the club is run is wrong. Our board and owner are happy to let us fade into mid table obscurity while milking the fans for our hard earned money.
Wenger needs help, he shouldn’t be involved in anything other than the management of the squad, let dedicated people deal with the transfers. But he also needs to listen to his coaching staff more.
I don’t think reasonable debate can be had on this site because it just seems a lot of the contributors are so blinkered they cannot even begin to see what is really going on. In the week I’ve been on this site I have been disappointed and shocked at how myopic some people are.
I would like to know what you feel needs to change at the club, if you even believe anything at all?
Mark Kitching wrote:
“Make no bones about it Fenerbahce are not as good as Villa.”
Of course, before kick off yesterday, the whole world was telling us how easy the game was going to be and how lucky Arsenal were to be playing a Europa cup semi-finalist in their own stadium, in their own country. Playing a team that struggled to avoid relegation on the other hand was hell because they were so great.
You may not respect the Turkish league by rating a bottom half team of EPL above their league runners up but remember that they had a team in the last 8 of the ECL while the ‘best league in the world’ had ZERO.
You spout crap like this and then cry when you are appropriately labelled AAA. I have always insisted that it is not what people label you with, it is what you do that states who you are. If all you care about is Arsenal winning, then you not a supporter. You are glory hunter!
Mark Kitching wrote:
“I don’t think reasonable debate can be had on this site because it just seems a lot of the contributors are so blinkered they cannot even begin to see what is really going on.”
This is classic projection. You come on here to blame the Arsenal manager and players for their loss as a result of a bias ref while at the same time belittling their solid victory against a stronger opposition, away in a foreign country. You then resort to whining when called out by the regulars for disagreeing with you. If you had only read the site’s banner, you would not be so disappointed.
Bootoomee
Exactly. You can’t just come onto a blog and start determining the entire agenda for discussion, regardless of what good points you might have on any topic. And then when this is quite correctly resisted, it is made out to be a result of close mindedness on the part of the regulars and a lack of openness to new ideas.
@Shard
Really Shard you are found out as a liar and Media repeater and try to blame me for it and use frustration as a get out.
Get your own point of view man and stop following the crowd.
So what you saying is anytime Arsenal lost a match it has to be the ref’s fault? My question is you will remember the season Arsenal went unbeaten, were there no refs then? it amazing how you find fault with everything under the sun but not the man that controls everything at Arsenal. and frankly you just make him look more incompetent.
Bootoomee
My apologies sir. Much better put than me. I can’t even plagiarize very well !!!
In your article you state ‘Perhaps, the most interesting outcome of last Saturdays event was how little stick the ref got for his bad calls’ I assume your main target for that comment is the post match media reports which to a man skip over Taylors incompitance as if a total irrelivance.
But I think the way the crowd reacted during the game was an even sadder indictment of how fickle and illogical people can be.
The ref was having a mare. I knew it. The Wife knew it. The lads on Arsenal Player knew it and every Gunner (and probably every Villain) in the ground knew it. The ref was getting pelters. Rightly so. But the sad thing is the worse it got, 2nd very dodgey pen, 2nd very dodgey Yellow for Kos, caught on the break for 3rd goal, the more the crowd turned on Wenger. Why? we could all see the refs performance and the dramatic influence it was having on the game.
The refs stitched us up good and proper yet it’s Wenger the crowd, or at least a loud and veciferous section, turn on.
I don’t get it and frankly I think they are an embarrassment.
Bacause they have seen time and time again and have paid at least £50 to be there and spent half the day travelling.
It’s the frustration of continual repetition, we have been out of teh title race by November each of the last 4 years i think.
Segun, there where refs who could give penalties but they could be saved.
Matt,
you asked if that is how we did match reviews based on Shard his news paper opinion.
As the head of the reviewing team I can tell you that is completely not the case. Our refs review the games based on videos of the games and based the laws of the game and the instructions from Fifa.
And believe me we get rather a lot of mails send to us by refs who congratulate us behind the scenes.
Last year we even had a few PL refs reading our articles and finding it very exciting stuff. Certainly the election of ref of the season was followed with lots of interest.
Now you can try to discredit our work and find it nonsense but I can assure you that many think we do a valuable job.
I am connected with refs all over the world and even last week a ref from a certain part of England wrote me a personal mail saying that on the last meeting of their local referee association our website and work were the topic of the evening. And he told me that most agreed that we did a great job. And they offered support for the new season if we would need it.
And no, the person writing in was not a London born person. Or an Arsenal supporter. He was from the North and supported another team up north. You could call them close rivals of Arsenal in a way.
So dislike, discredit all you will. I know for a fact that even former top referees in England support what we do and we have contacts in their circles.
But they have one thing in common: they all ask me not to mention their name. Why? Yeah… just ask yourself that question…why on earth would that be.
Matt
You say ‘We’ as if you are in some way connected to Arsenal ! I find that baffling as you never have a good word to say about them.
You’d be much happier elsewhere you know. Don’t torture yourself like this.
Segun,
Were you happy with the ref on Saturday or not? Do you think he was fair or not? Quoting the exploits of the invincibles like a kind of silver bullet to win the argument on a debate like this is counter-productive on your part. How did the invincibles lose the 50th game?
Did you hear anyone at Untold complain about the ref when we were totally dominated 3-1 by Bayern Munich at the Emirates last season? We don’t always blame the ref unlike you lot who always blames Arsene Wenger.
I know it’s easy to just blame AW for everything. Another Nigerian commenter was moaning about the risk he faces when he goes out to watch Arsenal matches at night, like it’s the fault of Arsenal that there is poor security of live and property in Nigeria.
@ Walter
I dont doubt that you put a lot of hard work into the reviews and i accept that lots of mistakes are made by refs during matches.
I accept that Anthony Taylor made some mistakes the other day and that some refs do seem to carry vendetta’s or be pro some teams.
What i dont accept is that all of them are against Arsenal along with most of the press and pundits.
Some people were mocking Merson last night but i agree with everything he said so is he against the club or just having an honest opinion.I have seen him and his sons at plenty of games is that somebody with a hatred of the club.
The truth of the matter about how we all feel is somewhere in the middle. Wenger is not all bad but he is not all good either.
And if the ref at the Villa game is bad at his job, then Wenger is not better at his own job!
@mark kitching and @matt
You guys sounds really upset..
@segun
You too seems upset…
Sukebe,
yeah they are upset because we won yesterday. 😉
Tweedledum & Tweedledumber are off again.
Walter,
As it seems that Mark Halsey is going off-message and will hopefully tell it like it is (e.g. this £50k gagging payment is quite extraordinary – what have they got to hide?) do you think you would be in a position to persuade him to highlight the work that you are doing?
I am very excited that Halsey could be the crack in the wall of silence!
Matt
How can you agree with Merson.
Go and check Arsenals stats from the beggining of 2013 to last night, especially how few games we’ve lost and how few goals our crap deffence has let in, then please explain to me over which ‘cracks’ last nights emphatic win and clean sheet was covering?
Our results over the 2nd half of the season would of seen us 2nd in the league and we was only knocked out of the CL on away goals to the team that basically pissed the competition.
It seems Mersons evaluation on Arsenals quality is based solely on one game, Villa, and he totally ignores all the other results over the last 8 months as irrelivant.
He critisises our defence despite letting in the 2nd least goals all season.
He critisises our attack despite being 2nd top scorers.
I’m not makeing this up. Those figures are facts. So go on, explain to me what cracks exactly last nights result was covering up???
By the way, I’m not saying we are World beaters. We clearly are not. But we are a very good team. Much better than Merson and you seem to give us credit for and I just want to know, takeing into account the FACTS I’ve mentioned, why you rate us so badly?
Jambug,
Apologies for continuing to do this but there is a very simple answer to what ails Matt and his cohort:
“Arsenal haven’t won a trophy in 8 years because Arsene Wenger wouldn’t spend the fucking money.”
It is their only problem, it is always their only problem.
@walter
Sshh.. Don’t make them more upset..
This is important..
Help me do what bricksfield suggested, okay… 😉
@matt
So, tweedledum and tweedledumber upsets you?
Please tell me more about it…
Bootoomee
You are right. I know you are right. I had exactly one of these conversations/arguements with a gooner at work. In the end I said to him “so basicly what you are saying is you want us to have a sugar daddy just printing endless bank notes as and when, like Chelsea and City”
He denied it of course, told me I was a deluded fool we went round the same endless circle one more time.
For some reason they just cant admit to themselves that really they just want Gazedis, whomever really, to just throw a Billion quid at the club a la Chelsea and City.
I don’t want it. I realize the limitations of not haveing it. I am prepared, no HAPPY to live with that.
Some, such as the aforementioned clearly are not.
Thanks for that Halsey link Shard. A great read that begs the unanswered question of why is PGMO is so secretive. I mean if they are all clean and dont have any agendas then why do they take measures to hush up retiring refs with the £50000 package? So glad Halsey refused and reading from Dogface’s twitter timeline it seem PGMO are doing their best to ensure his book doesnt hit the shelves as its release has been delayed. Now i really want a copy of that book to see if Halsey has the courage to burn it all down.
@ Sukebe You couldn’t upset me if wanted to.
@Jambug You cant just pull out a 10 game sequence to show what a great team we are.
The Season was 9 months and in that time we lost to Blackburn,Bradford @ took 4 points against the other teams in the top5.
We haven’t strengthened the team at all and seem to think that the same players who scraped 4th last year can mount a challeng this year wne we have £180 million in the bank.
These are my gripes and not what Boo would like everyone to believe. Trophies cant be guaranteed no matter what you do but it’s fair to expect the club to do all they can to give the fans some success insted of hoarding money.
Mahdain
On the topic of agendas.
At work I chat to a couple of Utd fans who are far and away more gracious to Arsenal, and wenger in particular, than a vast majority of Gooners are.
One of them told me, and he swears this is true, that he has a relation who used to work on the SUN who told him that within the media it was common knowledge that a possitive back page headline about Utd sold papers, as did a negative Arsenal headline, and it was with this in mind that stories where printed, wether true, rumoured, implied or simply made up.
Obviously I cant verify this, but going by what gets printed week in week out there at least seems to be a semblence of truth in it.
Just to re iterate this guy or his relation have no axe to grind or reason to make it up. It’s up to you if you think theres anything in it. I certainly think there is.
@ Bootoome
If the money is not for spending on the team. What is it for?
Matt.
You don’t have ‘gripes’ you have ‘issues’
@ Well just ignore my posts man. Dot understand why lot feel the need to keep asking for my opinion.
Yesterday we had £150m in the bank and today we apparently have £180m.
Wow thats some interest rate.
Tasos,
Remember that it started from £70 million.
I don’t understand why Arsene Wenger won’t “spend the fucking money” 🙁
@ Tasos
We more or less just qualified for the CL Sure that is worth £30m. Wake up fella!!
Matt,
to be honest I don’t think many really are waiting for your opinion over here.
to be honest I think some are just playing a game for the moment. That could also be the case with you of course.
@ Rupert
No not the ex Arsenal player who is a Spurs supporter!
However I remember that night many years ago when one Michael Thomas scored against Liverpool 1989. Still makes me smile also it is worth noting that its his 46th birthday on Saturday
Takling about the cash reserves. I might be wrong about this, but from what I remember, prior to the last accounts, it wasn’t expressly stated how much they were.
They certainly weren’t there prominently put up on the site. Might have been buried in the accounts.
Can someone confirm whether I’m right or wrong about that?
Matt.
Not asking for an opinion. Asking for an explanation but you just bend things to suite your argument.
For example. I use a SEASONS stats to back my arguement that Arsenals deffence is not as bad as perhaps you infer and neither is our attack as misfireing as you imply and you accuse me of useing 10 games. I USED A SEASONS STATS.
And I use the last extremely impressive HALF of the season to suggest that perhaps now that the new signings have bedded in, we have in fact become a VERY good side. Yet again you accuse me of just plucking 10 games out of the air !!!
Merson, and you by association, use ONE game, Villa, to back your arguement that we are in fact crap.
I know we did’nt do well against the top sides, other seasons it’s been the other way round. It happens. Perhaps we are not quite as good as them. Hardly surprising since both City and Chelsea have spent 100’s of Millions on players whilst we’ve spent 100’s of Millions on a Stadium. Or did you miss that ?
As for the money. Where you get £180 Million I dont know, but even if it is in the bank, we are trying to, or expected to in your case, compete with teams that have UNLIMITED FUNDS. Do you not get it. It does’nt matter what we spend they will always spend more. LOTS MORE. What is the point in getting caught up in a ‘pissing’ match you cannot win at the long term risk of the Clubs entire future?
You may crave medals. I crave the sanity and long term security of our wonderful football Club. If you don’t, go sate your craveings somewhere else. I’m sure you’ll be a lot happier.
@ Jambug
By you own admission you used half a season of results to suit your theory.
Tha facts are we finished 4th last year 20 points or so of the top and went out in the cups to Bayern,Bradford @ Blackburn.
This is what i base my concrens on not losing Villa as you suggest and cant see things being different this year unless we streghthen the team.
Keep bumbling away if you want this is what i believe.
I dont wnat teh club to bankrupt itself but just to spend some teh money we have on the team.
I hope you can understand this time.
@Walter
They seem to chase me around the blog desperate for me to change my opinion and admit they are correct and i can see the errors of my ways.
All the posters like me get a barrage from the Wenger knows best always crowd.
you know the exit Matt if you feel wrongly treated? Click on the x on the right side of your screen and you are free… freeeeeeee…. freeeeee at last
Matt.
“Just spend some of the money we have”
You do not mean that in any way shape or form. You mean ‘spend whatever it takes to win something’ because not winning something is the stick with which you and all the AAA’s have been useing for the last 8 years to bash Wenger. It’s only this year, because the Club has actually said that after the difficult years we finally have some money to spend, that you have started the ‘Spend some fucking money’ shit.
As I pointed out, and you flatly ignored, we have been ‘Spending some fucking money’ infact some £450 Million or do you think the stadium built itself?
Also on transfers over the last 10 years we have actually made a net annual loss of about 1.5 Million per season. So every penny, plus some, raised through the sale of players has been re invested in the team. Is’nt that also ‘Spending some fucking money’
Wenger/Arsenal will spend this summer. They want to. They said they need to. They said they will.
But I’m telling you know it does’nt matter what they do, who they buy, it will not be enough for you.
FACTS Matt, facts!!!
we were 16 points behind not 20
surely you should know the facts!
Matt
Did you not read the Mantra at the top of the page?
And you wonder why you get an arguement.
If I went on an AAA sight I would expect the same.
Differnce is I would’nt go there.
To me it shows a lack of something, be it intelegance or simply forthought, to even expect to come on to a pro Arsenal/Wenger site spouting anti Arsenal/Wenger opinions and not to get stick. You even make like your surprised.
Or are you so self opinionated you thought you was going to turn us all in to tripple A’s with your heart felt, though slightly misguided views on all things Arsenal?
Ok, so I went back and checked the accounts. The accounts ended for half year in Nov 2012, and the accounts for full year ending May 2012, both contain the cash reserves (123.3m and 153.3m respectively) The latter account also states that this was 160m in 2011.
However, 2011 accounts themselves didn’t contain a separate head of cash reserves (at least as far as I could see in the pdf)
Did the rules change and it become mandatory to declare cash reserves, or are Arsenal, over the past year, simply putting out the message that they are rich, that money is not a major issue? If the latter, I can’t see why they would do that if they didn’t intend to spend.
It doesn’t matter really. I was just curious how the problem people had with Arsenal’s financial management turned from ‘profits’ a few years ago, to ‘cash reserves’. It’s quite simple. The club have started revealing cash reserves in their account, and quite prominently. Although I’m not sure why.
I still believe the money is being used to offset something. Whether it’s Arsenals debts or Kroenkes other debts – this (IMO) is why the money isn’t being spent. Of course, they have to tell us the money is available as otherwise, people would stop spending more money to be used for offsetting.
Does anyone know who Taylor supports? Maybe he is another Arsenal fan who wants Wenger to ‘spend the f*cking money’. (not that I don’t want to see investment in the squad).
For anyone interested in ‘that’ Arsenal vs Norwich game, here is the ref review.
http://www.refereedecisions.co.uk/match-review-michael-jones-arsenal-vs-norwich-city-3-1-13042013/
Ooops, wrong article 😉
Stuart
They don’t HAVE to tell us anything. Not specifics anyway. I think you’re wrong in your reasoning here. If anything, falling profits might have given them more leeway to say they can’t spend big.
The money, substantial as it seems, isn’t as much as that. According to the Swiss Ramble (from memory) at the end of May 2012, with cash reserves of 153m, 34 m had to stay in the bank as guarantee.
The reserves depleted by 30m in 6 months. This is despite the TV money and season ticket renewal money coming in I guess by July-August.
We did of course extend all the Brit cores contracts and added more to the wage bill by replacing Song and RVP with Poldi, Ollie and Santi so that will explain some of it. Let’s be generous and say 8m. That still means some 20-22m goes into running Arsenal for 6 months.
Extrapolate that to the whole year and I guess 40-45m is required just for running the club for a year. Add 34m to that, that leaves 153-75/80m…about 75m cash reserves. If we also reduce stadium debt from that then MAYBE that figure goes even lower (although maybe not)Let’s just go with 75m disposable cash.
Keeping in mind that we didn’t know where our next pay check was coming from, we probably wanted to keep some on hand. We apparently through the years have tried to bid fairly big for players. 20m for Reina, 16+m for Phil Jones, and maybe 25-30m for Gotze last season.So its not like we’ve not been looking to spend for the right player
Stuart. It’s entirely possible that the money is being used for something nefarious, but in trying to (in an amateur way) make sense of the accounts, I don’t think there’s anything too alarming.
Now we’ve established a large enough future source of income through sponsorships (they start from next year) and the increased TV money, and secondary sponsorships, we should be able to spend that 75m plus a bit more, although , keep in mind wages need to come from that, which is balanced by the fact that transfer payment can be paid in stages. (I don’t think we will spend all of our disposable income either. Nor should we in my opinion)
And that spending capability which I calculestimated (calculation and estimation) is sort of what the club sent out the message they could do.
We’ll see by the end of the window, but I am certain we are trying to get in the just below-elite level players in. Whether we succeed in that or not remains to be seen.
Shard
Arsenal Holdings produces consolidated financial statements under Section 400 of the Companies Act 2006.
Arsenal Holdings produces a Cash Flow Statement as per FRS 1 (Revised 1996).
You have a copy of the Accounts, look for Note 15 – Cash and short term deposits. NOT A CASH RESERVE!!!!!
Shard, you have to wait for the Advance Season Ticket money (£90 millions PLUS £10 millions Value Added Tax)to be paid from the equivalent of a Clients’ Bank Account.
Shard, where are the Wages and Salaries in your brief explanation?
The Swiss Ramble is NOT an Accountant and HE is part of the disinformation and misinformation about the – Cash and short term deposits.
Shard.
Of course they don’t have to tell us anything, they can do or not do what ever they want. By have to tell us I meant they have to tell us to keep the turnover up and the money pouring in. If the money is being used as security on other investments (which wouldn’t show on the account by the way), then they couldn’t tell us that and expect people to keep spending money on the club. That would be the end of it for most people, I mean who wants to keep spending money at Arsenal in the knowledge that the money is not going to Arsenal but instead to guarantee someones finance elsewhere? No one, that’s who.
Anyway, it’s all ifs buts and maybes but I have had these thoughts for years now.
Notoverthehill,
I’ve always admired the work of Swiss Ramble and believed his articles to be well informed. I gather you are suggesting otherwise???
Can I ask whether you are a financial expert? If so, I would be interested to read your take on the accounts.
I’m being genuine here, I’m really interested to get another take on things from somebody who knows much more than me.
Notoverthehill
I did realise just after that I forgot to consider that we’ve let a lot of players leave and sold some more. I couldn’t be bothered to redo the calculations (and it’s not like I have full faith in either my figures or my understanding), so I let it go.
We could perhaps, keeping that in mind, spend maybe a 100m this year, although it depends on how much we pay the players we buy.
Stuart
I understood what you meant, but I don’t understand your logic. How does telling us there’s 120m of cash get people to do anything other than get angry at a lack of spending. And as you say, the accounts won’t show either way whether the money is being used for leveraging any other debts. So that makes no difference.
If it is your take that saying we have money will bring in season tickets and that that is the purpose, I don’t really believe it. I don’t have the figures off hand, but the money is not significantly high enough to risk long term, large scale disenchantment. I could be wrong. I just don’t believe that is it in this case.
If we would have spend the money on players like Parker, Samba and others we missed out because Wenger being too tight we would have no cash reserves, war chest or however you want to call it.
And I think a fair amount will be spend in the next days…
Shard,
I think you are mis-understanding my general jist.
I am saying that if the money is being used for some sort of offsetting purpose, the club couldn’t come out and admit so because that would halt all fan spend.
@matt
Hey, i’m sorry, i didn’t mean to upset you, really sorry about the tweedledum thing.
But now i see, you’re upset about the money thing, i know how it feels regarding monetary issues, really do.
So what you want me to do to help you?
Stuart
Oh absolutely. No doubt about that.
But I was talking about why the complaint changed from ‘Arsenal make profits and don’t spend’, to ‘Arsenal have cash reserves of 150m and don’t spend’.
SO that led me to wonder why the club has started showing its cash reserves, and so prominently.