By Tony Attwood
I wanted to pick up on the story that Mauricio Pochettino claiming that Juventus are “specialists in football’s dark arts” and that they manipulated the refereeing in their Champions League game with Tottenham, when it happened, but being on the other side of the world, having an 11 hour time difference and wanting to cover our games against Milan and Watford, each got in the way.
But return to it I must, because of the obvious contrast. Any comment from Untold about refereeing decisions is met with howls of derisive laughter from the SNAF (the Wenger hating “Arsenal fans”) and the anti-Arsenal Arsenal mob. And yet here we had the newspapers and other media seriously listening to Pochettino and taking due note of match manipulation allegations.
The difference is response is quite extraordinary. All Untold suggests is that both the set-up and the behaviour of the referees’ organisation, the PGMO, is very different from that of other countries in Europe, and this is curious. Therefore it is worth asking why PGMO does behave as it does. And yet the media absolutely refuse to pick up the story, and will not ever question what PGMO is up to, even when it goes further and further away from the mainstream of European football (as most recently with VAR).
And it is not just us. Mr Wenger has suggested things are wrong as well. The response? Well, you know.
And yet when the Tottenham manager suggests something is amiss on the basis of one game’s evidence, the press are all over the story.
Now of course the word of the Tottenham manager is infinitely more interesting to the media than a 10 year collection of evidence by a blog, simply because he is the Tottenham manager and we’re just writing a blog. But it does show just how lopsided football journalism has become when a total issue can be ignored because… well, because.
The issue of the organisation of and the fairness of refereeing is one that is fundamental to football, and the fact that there is clearly a question or two to be asked about the decisions taken by PGMO can’t be disputed. Which raises three interesting points:
1: Why are the allegations of the Tottenham manager, which were made without any clear evidence that can be examined, taken so seriously by the media, while any mention of dubious refereeing by the Arsenal manager is laughed off, or not reported at all?
2: Why does the media not take up the issue of why English refereeing is organised in such a different way from that elsewhere?
3: Why do PGMO run a system which is obviously open to corruption, by organising matters so that the same referee gets the same clubs to referee over and over again?
Of course I have asked the last two questions so often I know it is now boring, so let’s deal with the Tottenham issue. The entire case of the Tottenham manager is based on the fact that he said he saw Giuseppe Marotta, the CEO of Juventus, in the tunnel at half time and that he had complained to the Polish official, Szymon Marciniak.
What Juventus were complaining about was that Marciniak had not given a penalty following a challenge by Jan Vertonghen. The allegation is also that other members of the executive of Juventus also took issue with Marciniak.
Pochettino then went further and said that Andrea Agnelli the Juventus chairman was also seen in the tunnel. Potchettino then stated there were “two games [to be played] against this type of club – “one on the pitch; one outside it”. In effect, corruption.
He then added that Juventus had given Tottenham “a massive lesson in how to behave”, which presumably means “they showed us how it is done and we will follow their example.” In other words, Tottenham will now put undue pressure on referees in European matches and act in a corrupt manner.
The Tottenham manager continued, “In this type of game every minimal detail can help you to win. We put pressure on the referee but it was easy for the referee to manage us because we were very nice people, trying to help to play a game. In this situation, with experience, you have more possibilities to achieve all that you want. That is another game. It’s not only the game playing football.”
Pochettino then went a lot further suggesting that the referee succumbed to this pressure and that in the second half there were “many fouls that weren’t fouls”. He also spoke of a number of minor infringements such as starting the game with the ball moving and having a player inside the box when a goal kick was taken.
Now as I understand Law 16, covering goal kicks, the regulation only says that all opposing players must be outside the penalty area until the ball is in play. If this were not so, a defender would not be able to kick the ball for a goal kick (as occasionally used to happen when a keeper was injured but stayed on the pitch).
The key point behind these allegations is that the implication in his interviews was that the Tottenham manager was saying not just that Juventus manipulated the referee but that Tottenham would learn from that experience and do it themselves in future.
Which is another variation on match fixing. It is not the same as Type III match fixing which we have focused on in the past (in which a club owner suggests to a referee that he would reward the referee if he can do anything to help ensure that a certain other club draws a match it might otherwise win, or loses a match it might otherwise draw).
It is incredibly difficult to spot Type III match fixing because it does not involve overtly helping the club behind the bribery win its own matches – instead it stops that club’s rivals from winning every game they might. The only way it can be stopped – or at least made much less likely to have an impact – is to ensure no referee gets to manage a game by any one team more than twice in a season.
That is what other leagues do, but what the PGMO resolutely refuse to implement in the Premier League.
In bringing up this refusal by PGMO to act like associations in other leagues, we are ignored by the media and laughed at by supporters of other clubs and by the anti-Wenger movements surrounding Arsenal. And yet when the Tottenham manager mentions seeing some dubious actions by Juventus directors, it gets fulsome positive coverage.
This of course is reasonable at one level – he is the Tottenham manager, we’re just a bunch of Arsenal supporters. But there is an underlying issue. Is manipulation of football by illicit means going on or not? And if it is then first, why does the media in the UK not consider it, and second, why is the PGMO acting in such secrecy and with such rules that they can only exacerbate the issue?
This weekend the Guardian’s report of the Arsenal Watford match contained the line, “Welcome to Arsenal, a place where nothing is as clear as it seems.” That should perhaps have read, “Welcome to the media’s coverage of the Premier League, where we work hard to make sure nothing is clear”.
- Arsenal v Watford Sunday 11 March 2018 – The Match Officials
- How curious that the media reflect a split in the fan base at WHU but not at Arsenal
Difference is, Pochettino didn’t claim conspiracy or make excuses or ask someone else to fix it for him. He said what Juve did, and declared “we have to learn to do the same” (paraphrased). So it was understood to be just an observation from him, not a complaint about how unfair losing was. That gives him credibility.
Not sure Poch should be moaning about refs, after all, his serial divers get away with rather a lot, in the PL at least if not in Europe
Did you ever watch Pires play, pot kettle job going on here.
Just change the wording of the law to require contact to be sufficient enough to bring a man down and the problem of diving goes away. Currently the mantra is “” I felt a touch and so I went down “” that suggests insufficient contact and the next line that “” He was going so fast that he lost his balance ” doesn’t wash either.
Currently law 12 suggests that trips or attempts to trip
If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.
This is vague and offers the referee no help , the amount of contact needs to be specified.
We are turning into a boring little lot down at the emptycrates after we stop winning everything, aren’t we ………………..?
Anon
Pires was rightly called out for a dive against Portsmouth and one other, can’t remember who against. He was not a serial diver like Bale, Ali, Kane, Ashley Young, Sterling, Klinsmann, Rooney and many others. I challenge you to name me one player in the Wenger era who is/was a serial diver. Spurs players are encouraged to dive by Pochettino, he has almost publically admitted as much. Wengers players are encouraged to play the game fairly.
A manager wins 2 FA Cups in 3 years, he is slaughtered. Another wins nothing but is idolized. I thought football was a ‘results game’?.
Tommy what have you won lately ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7wCfttJVnQ
Todays big story seems to be Jamie Carragher has spat in the face of a fourteen year old girl, who’s dad was just reminding him of Sundays score.
It is front page news on a few newspapers yet nearly 24 hours later it hasn’t made SkySports News.
Lot of assumptions and crimes of thought put in this article. Weird.
Firstly, when was the last time you heard Poch complain about a ref, and in the press? I’m not sure I even remember, and I don’t think I have ever heard him complain. At least not in the same way as Jose, Klopp, Arsene…
If you step back, and take away the anti-Tottenham leaning to your reading of everything Poch has said, and put into context – he didn’t really accuse people of anything, he stated what he saw, used some loose phrases to make points as much to his own team (i.e. we need to get a bit nasty here lads, that’s our next step), not – as you put – become match-fixers (lol).
Also, reading between the lines, you’re clearly suggesting the press are taking Poch’s one referee comment seriously but not comments from Wenger: Wenger has been a massive contradictory/over-the-top complainer for a while now. From the days of “I didn’t see the incident” (which was usually in response to something questionable Arsenal had done, lest we forget), to the more recent referees conspiracy when Arsenal didn’t get a penalty against WBA (when previously at the Emirates, WBA should have had a penalty). Wenger is his own worst enemy with his short-sightedness. He makes himself look an idiot, and makes himself a target of derision. If he could show a little more awareness, he’d probably get taken a little more seriously. But alas.
Blame Tottenham.
Arsene Wenger, through years of claiming ‘ I didn’t see it’ is a subject of ridicule with his clear and blatantly transparent childish rants. Pochettino’s opinions are generally fair and considered. Go figure.
this was 16 years ago when the dug out was lower than the pitch side.
Grow up!! Show me a football manager/player who ISN’T biased in their opinion of the game.”Serial divers” like Bale, Alli, Kane, if they were to announce that they were signing for your club, you’d welcome them with open arms. Any player is only a diver IF he does it for an opponent, if he does it FOR your team then the other lot were kicking the crap out of him. I well remember Arsene Wengers ‘unbiased’ comments about a yellow card for Patrick Vierra. “I didn’t see the incident…..but it definitely wasn’t a yellow card.” Explain how you don’t see an incident but you are still qualified to comment on it. Stop being a total twat and realise that football consists of a referee surrounded by 22 professional cheats and their managers.
MickHazel
I think you’d have to go back as far as Anders Limpar to find a serial Arsenal diver.For some reason we just don’t seem to do it,and when we do it usually comes unstuck,as with: TheoWalcott.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/8248424/Theo-Walcott-sorry-for-diving-in-Leeds-stalemate.html
Pgmo will one day reform or be reformed. Because the organization’s seasonally doing match fixing in their secret agenda electing which PL club side to win the PL Title cannot continue for life. But when will the Pgmo reform or be reformed depends on the PL clubs taking the necessary action on it in unison that will bring the desired reform at the Pgmo that’ll make match fixing a thing of the past.
In truth, Part III type of match fixing which is mostly used against Arsenal to deny them win the PL Title does exist at Pgmo for more that a decade. Man City who are currently on 69 points after playing 28 games are looking to have been elected by the Pgmo to win this season’s PL Title as they have been helped by the Pgmo to illegally collected the points they should have lost. Which had the Pgmo not awarded them these illegal points they wouldn’t have been where they are now topping the PL table with a massive 13 points lead on Man Utd who are in 2nd in the table. It would have been more closer between the first, Man City and the 2nd place team – Man U.
Meanwhile, let’s first of all thank God for His rescuing us from the anti-Arsenal match referring by Martin Atkinson and the anti-Arsenal flagging yesterday at Ems. Which if it hadn’t been for the Gunners who defused the anti- Arsenal match referring which was perpetrated by Mr Atkinson yesterday by scoring 3 undisputed goals, Arsenal would have had the match drawn or even lost it.
Let’s for the time being leave Mauricio Pochettino and his ranting on Europe referees CL match referring for now and focus on our ELC match that’s coming up on Thursday night at the Ems. A match I believe the Gunners Le Boss will select to play this match will not disappoint us like they disappointed us in the Ostersunds match at the Ems, but will appoint victory to Arsenal in the Europa League Cup last 16 2nd leg match on Thursday night @ the Ems.
Eboue..
I’m currently reading the Autobiography of a British comedian/talking head, called Danny Baker. And very funny it is too.
He was bought up in South London and was an enthusiastic Millwall fan.
Back in the 90’s, due to his ready wit and ebullient character he worked on lots of live TV, and some Radio.
Combining these assets with his football knowledge he made the perfect fit for Radio 5’s new football phone-in programme 606, which I believe is still going today.
It was 1991.
His very first question to a waiting World, was in itself very telling as to what people thought, even back then.”
He asked:
JUST HOW CROOKED ARE REFEREES ?
Baker said he and everyone else in the studio were amazed when the first call came in. It was none other than Andy Townsend, who was at the time, still actually playing for Chelsea.
Baker continues:
“Andy, in a way that would probably see him suspended from the game today, was driving home from that days match and began to heatedly outline the significant shortcomings behind the whistle at his fixture. When I asked him was this unusual, he roared with laughter and gave a few more examples of open bias he has known. Thanking him for his honesty, the show then moved on…..”
So even back then, a current professional at the time, found it laughable that anyone should even question whether referees were biased/cheating or not.
Andy Townsend worked for many years on ITV sport, but since 2015 has been working at BT Sport. He also worked in Radio, including a weekend show on the odious Talksport.
I believe it is Townsend who was heard on a background mic cheering when a team scored a late goal against us in the Champions League.
So, not only does it appear that referees were cheating b******s back in 1991, but it appears a player saying so was acceptable.
But as Baker says, if he was a player today saying what he did would almost certainly of got him suspended. Too f***ing true.
But what is more telling is that, despite working in the media for ITV, BTS and Talksport, I have never once heard him repeat those accusations.
I don’t know, but somehow I doubt he came riding to Wengers aid when he accused Dean of cheating?
Maybe someone will tell me he was all over the media telling us how referees were known for cheating back in his day, so in fact Wenger may have a point? I’m sure he did.
Ok, this is one guy. But he had no reason to say what he said, unless he knew it to be true. He could only of got himself in trouble. He had nothing to gain.
So I believe him.
And if you do believe him, that blatant cheating, cheating that was so bad it was laughable to doubt it, was going on then, why not now.
What has changed?
If anything, with there limited number of referees, utter secrecy, and payments for silence, the potential for cheating has actually got worse.
@MickHazel,
maybe Arsenal does not have serial divers because
1) we almost never get a penalty when justified
2) they know for damn well that they’d be in for a card if they were to do so
3) they have a manager who tries to play the beautiful game. And is one of the most sportsmanlike in the PL and in EWurope at large
By the way, remeber Thursday nicht when the AC Milan player jumped over Ospina to try to get to the ball ?
I don’t know if Ospina’s intervention was wrong by the laws of the game. I don’t think he was aiming for the player.
In the PL, we’d have had the player fall over, roll around like a deer just shot and perform an Oscar worthy routine.
That player ? He took his chance, wanted to score by his own merit. Say what you want, but I felt that was fairplay.
Tony
The wording of Law 16 is a strange on for the bit you quote is about procedure and is pre faced by the wording “The ball is in play when it leaves the penalty area”.
When Law 16 deals moves on to sanctions and offences it says
“If an opponent who is in the penalty area when the goal kick is taken, or enters the penalty area before the ball is in play, touches or challenges for the ball before it has touched another player, the goal kick is retaken.”
The clear inference there is that it is not an offence for a player to be in the penalty area it only causes an issue if he touches or challenges for it
Chris
Have to agree.
Personally I thought AC Milan played the game in a very sporting manner.
I think a penalty should of been given. Why?
The player had to take evasive action to avoid being fouled.
The evasive action put him off balance making it much more difficult for him to score.
Not jumping out of the way and allowing Ospina to come through him would of been a perfectly legitimate thing to do, and I’m sure would of won his team a penalty.
Doing that is different to kicking out your leg, as Jack did, or diving into a player, as Deeney did, to make contact. Neither of which I believe were fouls.
Ultimately Milans player jumping out of the way did not gain him an advantage so I think a penalty should of been given. Not giving penalties for incidents like this just validates players claims that they ‘have to go down’ to win a penalty.
Nik
You are correct and I will concede Eboue was a diver. However he was condemned by Wenger for doing so, unlike managers of teams with a history of prolific divers who try to excuse it or say nothing. And as I said before some managers even appear to encourage it.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/2377368/wenger-fumes-at-eboue (Any comment on that Mikee)
Tony
Where did Pochettino’s claims receive positive response? As far as I’m concerned, it would be the case if someone actually agreed with him in the media and wrote an article about Juventus putting pressure on the referees.
It seems to me that media are trying to protect Pochettino, the first manager that I have heard talking about diving and cheating as a legitimate tactic, by NOT taking his statements seriously (as they should).
For instance, The FA should have asked Pochettino to explain his claim about diving as it’s a direct statement of intent to violate Laws of the football game and as such represents an attack at the integrity of the game.
Then again, The FA and their Cerberus PGMO are an attack at the integrity of the game themselves.
Same goes for UEFA as the Champions League game Pochettino was referring to was under their iurisdiction.
Speculation
Leaving the possibility of referee corruption aside, is it possible that our style of play lends itself to fewer penalties? By this I mean that often the way we try to unlock defences is by playing good 1 or 2 touch passes and give and goes in the box. Whereas, teams with perhaps less technical ability but with a lot of pace and through balls or crosses, come into the box at much greater pace. Often we are interfered with by shirt pulls, arm grabs and hip checks but because our players are moving slower they aren’t called. The Jamie Vardys of the world run into the box and even the slightest touch will cause a five car pile up or at least invite a player to simulate one.
Just a thought.
MickHazel
12/03/2018 at 8:11 pm
“Anon
Pires was rightly called out for a dive against Portsmouth and one other, can’t remember who against. He was not a serial diver like Bale, Ali, Kane, Ashley Young, Sterling, Klinsmann, Rooney and many others. I challenge you to name me one player in the Wenger era who is/was a serial diver. Spurs players are encouraged to dive by Pochettino, he has almost publically admitted as much. Wengers players are encouraged to play the game fairly.”
It goes before Pochettino, I’m afraid. Gareth Bale is still leading the table of yellow cards received for diving – 6 in just two seasons (2011-12 and 2012-13) and he’s been out of England since 2013! I bet that dirty foreigner ‘Arry something was at fault for that one.
Mikee
12/03/2018 at 9:49 pm
“Grow up!! Show me a football manager/player who ISN’T biased in their opinion of the game.”Serial divers” like Bale, Alli, Kane, if they were to announce that they were signing for your club, you’d welcome them with open arms. Any player is only a diver IF he does it for an opponent, if he does it FOR your team then the other lot were kicking the crap out of him. I well remember Arsene Wengers ‘unbiased’ comments about a yellow card for Patrick Vierra. “I didn’t see the incident…..but it definitely wasn’t a yellow card.” Explain how you don’t see an incident but you are still qualified to comment on it. Stop being a total twat and realise that football consists of a referee surrounded by 22 professional cheats and their managers.”
Find me another football manager who INSISTED on replaying the game his team had won with an unfair goal even DESPITE UEFA’s refusal to allow it to happen.
That’s right. As far as I know, only Arsene Wenger has done it.
knobby
12/03/2018 at 8:38 pm
“Todays big story seems to be Jamie Carragher has spat in the face of a fourteen year old girl, who’s dad was just reminding him of Sundays score.
It is front page news on a few newspapers yet nearly 24 hours later it hasn’t made SkySports News.”
Well, it least he didn’t toss a coin at her. He is such a twat.
Josif,
when you read the piece about Arsneal’s sunday game on the Guardian and it’s constant irony, it just is so different then the one about Pochettino. as you state, he is getting cover. Not one line from the ‘journalist’ questioning his statements, no irony, no criticism. To me this is a ‘positive’ response. What he says is not constested, argued with, it comes then down as a fact.
Same does not apply when Mr Wenger makes a ‘small’ statement, uses irony himself.
@Chris
You may have a point there. After all, it seems to me that either Levy or Pochettino could be the only people out there who read that “Since you’re here…” begging part at The Guardian these days. Barney Ronay has even openly stated his fondness for Pochettino.
Judging by the comments under Guardian articles, there are quite a few people who have noticed the trend. One of commentators even stated that he/she now has doubt at everything at The Guardian due to their reports on Spurs.
It’s like the ridicule Wenger gets for saying ‘I did not see it’.
Of course Wenger has said that. And said it when it suits no doubt. He’s protecting his team and his players. It’s what managers do.
But the inference is that Wenger is the only one to do it, which is utter nonsense.
I know that, everyone with any honesty knows it, but it doesn’t stop the ‘I did not zee it’ piss taking jibes surfacing at regular intervals does it?
It’s like the ‘whinging’ Wenger jibes constantly banded about, as if he’s the only one that ever whinges, or that he does it more than anyone else.
Not only is that not true, but a whinge is only a whinge if that’s how it is reported in the media.
For example.
3 years or so ago Mourinho was ‘whinging’ that Chelsea didn’t get there fair share of penalty’s. Martin Samuels did an article in support of his ‘valid’ point.
Mourinho was ‘Whinging’ about City’s money but it was largely reported as a genuine concern.
Pep was ‘whinging’ about his players getting fouled but it was largely reported as a valid complaint.
Poch is whinging about ‘dark arts’ but it is largely being reported as a genuine complaint.
If Wenger had been behind any of those concerns it is absolutely certain he would of been portrayed as ‘whinging’.
And lets not even start about Sir Alex.
Whenever he was about to face the Stokes of this World he would start ‘whinging’ about ‘talented plyers’ not getting enough protection. The media invariably backed him to the hilt.
Whenever his plan was to kick the opposition off the park he would start ‘whinging’ about the namby pamby foreigners crying whenever they’re touched. The media invariably backed him to the hilt.
So depending on your point of view one mans ‘whinge’ is another mans ‘valid point’.
And as far as the media are concerned just about everything Wenger says is a ‘whinge’.
Wenger isn’t the only one to be on the end of this type of one eyed reporting. Benetez was another one the media took a dislike to, so when he came out with that controversial press conference about Sir Alex it was like a red rag to a bull, and the media ripped him apart.
Most people I know agreed with every word he said, except the United fans of course.
And that’s the point. If the press don’t agree with you then you’re whinging, end of.
@ nitram
I found this one offensive considering he is paid directly from my TV license.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FV_URlY8SZs
@ Nitram
Nail on the head yet again mate!
These days are offside on TV shown from above and yet others are shown from the side?What is the criteria? I think in England its ok if you dont win anything i mean since the 60s or 50s when something was won . Wenger knows im just waiting for his book when he retires he will be untouchable. Do you remember Jaap Stams book the media acted as if nothing happened but it metioned alot of crap which Furgus didand his hench men. We know what you did last summer.
crapetino is rapidly becoming the most hated manager ever
Zola and Vialli new how to dive
Good to see that we’re no longer the most expensive team to watch in the UK, now that Spurs have announced their prices at new WHL.
I have to say that I find the title of this article rather misleading as I have never witnessed Arsenal (the club) claiming corruption. On further rinvestigation I see that it is Untold Arsenal (which is in no way officially representative of AFC) that is being castigated by others. This is probably par, because UA is often held up to ridicule by other bloggers in the ‘you’re doing an Untold’ sense, so is to be expected.
@Josif,
yep I did notice it and was kind os surprised…..guess I’m so used of Snafs commenting on untold that finding so many comments with which I actually agreed was strange. And made me start to wonder if Sp*rs are being pushed by the press rather then reported upon. The new fad.
Interestingly another piece in the Guardian explains how State Aid players are having psychological problems with fans being so unsatisfied. I have no idea if they get the same harrassment on the web. On the other hand when Arsenal players talk about that pressure, they are sissies lacking ‘cojones’.
And just let me mention the piece about Conte consulting his player about tactics for the Barcelona game. I don’t give a s…t how he coaches his team, and what and how he does it is his business. But can you imagine the headlines if Mr Wenger were to officially do that ? Wenger has lost the nerve, Wenger cannot command his players anymore, Player revolt at the Ems, Wenger has just lost the dressing room ?
Knobby
I know. Disgraceful.
There was also an interview with Mark Hughes around that time where he ridiculed Wenger in a mock French accent, which caused much hilarity amongst the assembled hacks.
Try doing that in an Asian or West Indian accent.
Talking of offensive behaviour.
Is there anyone on here that could spit at one of there customers and still have a job in the morning?
I work on the railway, and my Colleagues on the gate line get insulted on a daily, almost hourly basis, through absolutely no fault of there own.
If they even answered a customer back, let alone spat at them, they would be instantly dismissed.
Carraghers position at SKY is surely untenable.
But saying that……
–Convicted wife beater and ‘dogger’ Stan Collymore seems to enjoy a long and fruitful career in the media.
–As does Roy Keane, despite deliberately trying to end a fellow professionals career:
“Roy Keane insists he has no regrets over horror tackle on Alf-Inge Haaland” Courtesy of the Guardian.
–As does Joey Barton, despite the fact that:
“Barton’s career and life have been marked by numerous controversial incidents and disciplinary problems[2] and he has been convicted twice on charges of violence.” Courtesy of Wikipedia.
–And Eric Cantina is used to endorse products in adverts despite assaulting a fan in the crowd with a Kung-Fu kick at Crystal palace.
…..the medias standards of morality are somewhat akin to that of a sewer rat, so I wouldn’t be surprised if on the back of all this he secures a promotion to head of public relations at SKY.
Your on top form Nitram..
Carragher has been given a tough interview on SSN and at one stage nearly close to tears when talking about the fourteen year old girl and he has one of the same age.
Seems like Sky are trying last chance saloon to get some positive opinion on him so he can cling on to his £1.5 million pound a year job.
Difficult when he has slagged anyone and everyone off in his position on sky. He has slated Arsene many times and told him to step down…
Now’s your big chance to die by the sword Jamie.
Pathetic to hear Danny Murphy trying to excuse Carragher on Talksport today. Apperently it was totally out of character, he’s not that kind of chap.
Knobby and Gooner Mikey
Thank you for your kind words. Had a bit of time on my hands today and if I can I always like to support my humble opinions, and take on things, with some supporting evidence (not proof).
“….Difficult when he has slagged anyone and everyone off in his position on sky. He has slated Arsene many times and told him to step down…”
That’s what gets me. Putting aside for one moment the vile act of spitting at somebody, it’s the utter hypocrisy of the man.
He earns a living from criticising people on a day to day basis, especially Wenger. And ‘criticising’ is a polite way of saying it. Much of what he says is an insulting.
Insulting to Wengers professionalism and character, 2 things we can now see Carragher seems to have a distinct lack of.
“Arsene Wenger must go…………… claims Jamie Carragher”
Right back at ya.
MickHazel
“Apperently it was totally out of character, he’s not that kind of chap.”
Except of course, he is:
“Liverpool’s defender Jamie Carragher faces possible legal action after an Arsenal football fan was hit by a coin he threw into the crowd during yesterday’s fourth-round FA Cup match at Highbury.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/jan/28/newsstory.sport1
I bet Murphy conveniently forgot to mention that.
Courtesy of The Gaurdian
It was the same when Arsenal lost at Wembley after it was opened. People complained that Wenger was using an excuse that the turf was bad. A few days later SAF said the same thing and everyone listened.
Nitram@4:18am
Well said. And he’s passing judgement? what a joke.
Carragher has never been a manager. He led the lynchmob against Mr Wenger. A few weeks ago – as deliberate tactics to get Mr Wenger sacked – he started to use words to describe Arsenal as ‘cowards’ or ‘cowardly.’
We were then looking at an absolutely contemptuous attack – Mr Wenger, a man who has been prepared to be a manager for over twenty years, being called a coward by an ex-footballer who has never had the bottle to put his body where his mouth is.
Once Carragher started using words such as ‘cowardice’ it became a lynchmob. Deliberate moral judgments were being passed. It was no longer a question of Mr Wenger’s ability as a football manager – it was a question of his moral character under fire, the judgment made by a charlatan who has never dared to put himself under the same fire.
So Mr Wenger had to be defended. On a shopfloor a manager such as Carragher had to be resisted and overthrown with every sinew of your body.
Weeks ago, with the first usage of ‘cowards,’ cowardice,’ the warning bells started to sound.
Every bully in every schoolyard is a frightened human being – what was Carragher hiding?
Obviously he was hiding his own fear of being judged like he would judge others, and so he didn’t dare put himself up as a football manager, in full view of the world, and he obviously knew this, and so – like a great many managers on the shopfloor working peopple have to deal with – he sought and found protection behind the company face.
Behind the cover of Sky TV, heading the lynchmob, he was so far off the rails a simple reciting of the score from a passing car blew his cover, blew the protection. You saw him.
This leaves one question, and it is a testimony to this site that the question can be asked here – why didn’t Sky TV rein in Carragher and his parrot Neville when the bad-mouthing of Mr Wenger and Arsenal moved into the sphere of ‘cowards?’
Zedsaunt
Well said.
“This leaves one question, and it is a testimony to this site that the question can be asked here – why didn’t Sky TV rein in Carragher and his parrot Neville when the bad-mouthing of Mr Wenger and Arsenal moved into the sphere of ‘cowards?’”
The problem is, the criticism Arsenal get, and the abuse that Wenger gets personally, has been way way beyond what should be acceptable for a long long time, and unfortunately when you think it just cant get any worse, it does.
Neville’s match long rant in the LC final was beyond a joke. Even people at work with no love at all for Arsenal had to concede it was over the top.
But it’s been going on for so long now I cant see it ever stopping.
Although I haven’t watched it it seems MOTD this week is a prime example of how anti Arsenal the media are.
We have had a bad time of late for sure, but a victory away at AC Milan and a good win against Watford is surely at least an opportunity for a little praise an optimism. Especially as there were 3 significant landmarks reached all within the one match:
Cech keeps 200th clean. PL record.
Mustafi scores Arsenals 1000th PL goal. The 2nd team to reach the landmark.
Mesut Ozil has become the fastest player to reach 50 Premier League assists.
What do we get from MOTD?
A montage of our ‘downfall’
Yet Spurs get knocked out of the last opportunity they had for a ‘trophy of any significance’ and a win at Bournemouth was a great way to get it out of there system.
F***ing joke.
Nitram
‘Neville’s match long rant in the LC final was beyond a joke.’
Yes it most certainly was. However I can sort of understand it a tiny, tiny bit, he did after all play for Man U at the height of Arsenals rivalry with Man U. He and his brother were the two main thugs sent to kick lumps out of our players. Now he kicks verbal lumps out of us, I guess old habits are hard to shake off.
What I cannot fathom or abide is Alan Smith, one of our ex players, doing much the same thing (though not quite as nastily) just about every time he co-commentates on an Arsenal match. It drives me so mad I have to turn the sound off when it gets too bad.
MickHazel
I think you are being far too kind.
Personally I can understand a certain amount of residual hatred from Neville, but I cannot accept what he was like on that day under any circumstances.
But I agree with you in as much as no matter how bad he was, he does at least have the fact he’s not ex Arsenal in his defence.
Where as you say, the likes of Smith, Wright, Merson etc, have no such excuse for there constant derision of everything Arsenal.
Today as well sky said Carragher was a popular pundit.. 😳
Are they sure?
I don’t know anyone who has a good word about him, Savage, Hargreaves, Sutton etc.
I have heard a few good things about Neville in the early days.
I am sure ex Arsenal pundits are embraced because they love to hear them slag of Arsenal and the manager and it makes good clickbait around the blogs..
@Nitram
You have to understand that our former players have their own grudges against Arsene.
Wright has never forgiven him for not being selected in that FA Cup Final 1998.
Merson has never forgiven him for being sold after just one season under Arsene’s stewardship which meant he missed the big domestic double which George Graham didn’t achieve.
Smith was part of Almost Invincibles who were one step away from immortality – something Arsene’s team reached.
Henry and Adams want to get an easy rout into the managerial job – no baby steps but a big club steer wheel immediately!
Of all other teams, I reckon Man United have a few ex-players with similar grudges (Scholes, Keane…and that’s it, I think).
It’s interesting that Henry and Scholes have the same simplistic route to success: buy players our team miss.
Henry said in 2015 that Arsenal would need a world-class GK, CB, DM and CF to win the league. No shit Sherlock! Every team in the league would win the league with four purchases like that.
Scholes said last year that Pogba needs someone like Modrić and Kroos to work properly. Basically, he thinks a 89 million worth Ferrari need a remote controller worth around 60 millions so that Ferrari could leave garage.
No coaching suggestions, no tactical suggestions. Just spend, spend, spend.
Nitram
You are absolutely right about Match of the Day. It was a disgrace. I have sent in a complaint to the BBC.
So many good points made in this whole discussion. It is shocking how our manager is treated without any defence from the mass media at all. In fact they are among the prime movers.
Courtesy of St Totteringahm’s Dat FB page:
“Season ticket prices published for new Spuds stadium.
It’s going to be a shock to some fans.
£795 cheapest, but very few available at this price.
£2200 most expensive. Very large price hikes for Spurs fans. Cup games not included in most cases.
So sky high prices for a team who haven’t won the league in over 50 years !!”
So my guess is that them media will now stop mentioning ticket prices as they won’t be able to bash us any more.
I think our cheapest is over a bag of sand so no doubt the trophies per pound knocking will continue.
That’s clever marketing from the Spuds so the shallow lazy media can headline it.
We are 34pts off first (city)
We are 17pts off second (utd)
We are 16pts off third (spurs)
We are 15pts off fourth(liverpool)
We are 8pts off fifth (chelsea)
Are we happy the way our club is progressing??
Plenty of places to go and moan apart from here Nik
Nik
We went 10 years without a trophy.
Then won 3 Fa Cups in 4 years, just last year being the latest.
So yes I am Happy.
This year is disappointing (so far) I agree, but with a fair wind and a bit (well maybe a lot) of luck, Wenger may win his first European trophy and in doing so we still may qualify for next years CL.
But given that only the Championship and Champions League seem to count as a trophy now, you could say Liverpool and spurs have had 10 disappointing years on the trot, and given spurs abysmal record you could say they’ve had 50 years of disappointment.
As much as you may not like it, we are NOT in the same bracket as Man City, Chelsea and Man UTD. They have finances way beyond that of ours, and have had for many years.
Yes, Spurs are doing OK. Nothing more. If we were in there position. 2 months of the season to go and just the FA Cup to play for, you would be moaning, of that I have no doubt. Don’t forget 4th place is not a trophy. It is a reason to mock.
So given that, yes, I think I can deal with this season.
Obviously you cant. That’s up to you.
Nik
Are you actually an Arsenal supporter or have you just come on here to troll and be a nuisance.
No not happy, but I try to understand the circumstances. one club are bigger than us perhaps two.(Liverpool) …two clubs are being financially doped.
Where should we be?
Don’t know, I just enjoy the ride…
I have known far worse times.
Nik is a supporter, just not an Arsenal supporter.
Nik – Did your parents know that you would be stealing a living? Why else would you be called Nik?
It’s time for our BBC to get rid of the pig idiot pundits they employ. Lineker, Nevilles, Savage, Carragher, Townsend, Wright, Shearer, Smith and any other ex footballer that has not had a basic educational qualification in social sciences have no place in public broadcasting. Not on my payroll.
nitram
@ 907 great piece.
In your opinion , how would you rate the present English referees ?
a) Probably among the very best in the world
b) Very highly
c) Adequate and competent enough
d) Crap and/or totally incompetent
e) Crooked and /or bent
f) other
Brickfields.
In your opinion , how would you rate the present Arsenal Manager ?
a) Probably among the very best in the world
b) Very highly
c) Adequate and competent enough
d) Crap and/or totally incompetent
e) Crooked and /or bent
f) other
Nitram.
So you are happy with the odd cup here and there and finishing mid table??We were a damn site better team when we were paying for the stadium and the shackles were on..at least we challenged a couple of times for the title and could compete with the best.Now our competition is with the likes of Burnley and Everton .Should a club of our size and stature be happy with that??Our manager is still one of the highest earners in world football.What are Arsenal getting in return..Not a lot at the moment.The ground is half empty and the majority of real fans are staying away because of the way the club is being run…And you are happy with all this??
And one last point you say we cant compete financially with the likes of City ,Utd and chelsea.You mean we WONT COMPETE.Our 2 owners are as rich if not richer than the rest.
As the resident quizmaster , I am obliged to be neutral and will reply only to answers of the questions that I set .
Please send you queries to the administrator of this site and we shall contact you soonest .
Yeah, right !
Thank you for making this site the number one Arsenal blog .
I can’t answer for anyone else Nik, but to describe the last five years as “the odd cup here and there and finishing midtable” is so far removed from the reality I have experienced I think we are just on different planets.
Brickfields…Thats the funniest thing youve ever posted .No 1 Arsenal blog..rofl
No1 Arsene blog more like.
And tony the onlt things posted on here that are so far removed from reality are your conspiracy theorys about why we are 34 pts off the pace.
You find solice from the dozen or so foreign cult followers you have on here ,many who criticise real fans .Isnt it ironic really the majority of themselves have never set foot inside the country never mind Highbury or the Emirates.
To much AFTV for young Nik.
United is 16 points from City
Spurs is 20 points from City
Liverpool is 21 points from City
Chelsea is 25 points from City
So which of the above team is ‘challenging’ for the title?
Nik you really are a prize. Some poor person has to stomach your brilliance. My deepest heartfelt sympathy goes out to them.
I will remain a follower of Arsene the great & the team he currently has taken from mundane to truly magnificent despite supporters like you & the wonderful help from PGMOL.
Sometimes I feel your ilk of snafs deserve the losses just to perk your grey matter.
Nik,
why don’t you just bugger off. For one there is a brand new stadium opening down the road with a fantastic team that is so far better then Arsenal that when we look at it, we, Arsenal fans, have to look at the sum , so much higher are they from us in terms of results and top of the table.
And the second nice thing is you won’t have to complain anymore about how it’s fans are unable to see reality.
Finally you’ll be happy not to spend the fortune you do on Emirates tickets and can get a much better deal at WHL, Arsenal are so ripping off spectators, and heve been for more than a decade.
And ‘the odd cup here and there’ to describe 3 out of 4 or even 3 out of 5 is in the same league as stating that Mourinho is a coach who prefers attractive and freeflowing football or that bacon, sugar, cigarettes and alcohol are good for your health.
Thanks lads for saving me the bother.
The guys obviously ill.
Nik is just living up to his name – Nikn a living
That’s entertainment – now lets get back to football. Carra has a spat with a 14 year old & Sky sees no limit. Now there’s a Grimm story that started with a flung coin. FA is what is done when cash is splashed.
Carragher the unsporting sore loser spits at tweeny bopper
Questionable planning permission, Chelsea, $ity, local authority regeneration schemes and arguably inhimane regimes+ some anti – football and US bids to take over TV and gain total control of misinformation!
A crisis of morality, click here
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/12/tory-links-russia-saudi-links-corbyn-spy-extremism?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=267193&subid=22032797&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
It’s rather droll, that we have the notion that readers of untold don’t attend Arsenal games and we have so very few readers over and over again. It is quite untrue, but what really interests me is why it matters to you Nik. If we are so few, and are non-attendees, why on earth are you wasting so much time desperately trying to get things posted here?
As you might know if you are aware of how things work it is a matter of seconds with Google analytics to see how many of the hits on a site one gets come from each country. But you love to make this stuff up. There is something odd about this.
Anyway, you’re not my problem, so as usual when we get to throwing in such commentaries without any evidence (of course, because you have none) and these are just repeats of what has been said before, time to say farewell I think. Although I will give you one piece of info. Untold is primarily run by four people, three of whom are season ticket holders.