- By Tony Attwood
The Guardian (rather unhelpfully in my view) tells us that just threepoints separate third-placed Arsenal and Brest, who sit 13th, in the battle for a top-eight spot and automatic progress in the Champions League.” And yes that is true. But there are a couple of other factors to consider here. One is that in their final league fixtures, Brest play, err, oh who is it? um, oh yes, Real Madrid.
The other is that Brest have a goal difference of +2 and Arsenal have a goal difference of +12.
So Arsenal would have to lose, shall we say, 6-0, against 31st placed Girona (who have so far managed to win one game in seven in the Champions League) while at the same time Brest would have to win 4-0 against Real Madrid. Now given that a win for Real Mad could lift them into the top eight and thus automatic qualification, that would seem a little bit unlikely.
But worse than that, that is the only mention of Arsenal in the Champions League review in this newspaper; a club that has had a brilliant campaign in the weird new format league. In truth, the nearest English team to Arsenal is Aston Villa who could overtake Arsenal if they win 4-0 and Arsenal lose 3-0. Villa are home to Celtic.
In fact any of 24 teams could end up in the top eight and thus get automatic qualification for the next round. But looked at with a spot of detail it all seems very unlikely.
But we should remember getting into the top eight has a bonus because he means that unlike the remaining qualifying teams, there is no extra knock out round, of the type Uefa love to stick into competitions because, well, it means more money for them.
Fortunately, Arsenal won’t be in that extra round, unless there is a combination of results that is so weird, that it would look “unlikely” even in Uefa’s history books.
In fact what makes this so unlikely is not just Arsenal’s results thus far (five wins, one draw, one defeat) but the fact that the last three games have not only been victories but also have had a total cumulative goal difference of +10 in Arsenal’s favour (due to one 1-5 victory and two at 3-0).
I suppose the new format does give the media something to chatter about and adds to the TV induced speculation on the final night, but really it does all seem a bit artificial. And in fact the most interesting point (other than Arsenal’s position) is the fact that Manchester City are dropping in 25th, which, if that was where they were to stay after the final round tomorrow night, would mean elimination.
In the past seven seasons Arsenal have reached one final in Europe and been knocked out in one semi-final and not qualified once at all, just the once – which is really rather good going considering at during this time Arsenal have had a total rebuild.
But looking elsewhere we might also note that there is a Europa League going on at the same time although it is not getting that much publicity. It too has engorged leagues and there we can see Tottenham looking to progress to the next round having won four, drawn two and lost one. The highlight of the season for that club has been the 3-0 win over the mighty FK Qarabag Agdam of whom it has quite rightly been said. But it is interesting to note also that apart from that 3-0 victory, the other six games that Tottenham have played in have resulted in three wins each by one goal, two draws and a defeat. And we are looking at Europa League results here.
Then finally, to be fair, we really ought to remember the Europa Conference League, which again is being played on the Big Table basis. Here we find Chelsea, and I don’t think any other English clubs, although I might have missed one along the way. I do hope they are enjoying themselves, even though they are somewhat divorced from reality.
red card over turned!!!!
Will wonders never cease.
But honestly, given the evidence they had no choice.
My take on this is that it should never of come to this.
Do I like challenges such MLS’s? No.
Should challenges such as that be a red card? Possibly.
Under current protocols should it of been a red? ? No.
As such:
Oliver should of given a yellow. He didn’t, therefore:
VAR should of corrected the error. They didn’t, therefore:
The PGMOL should of immediately clarified that it was an error. They didn’t.
If they had, all this fuss would of been avoided.
So, how did it get to this?
OLIVER
I don’t give a rats arse what people say, he has an issue with Arsenal. The disproportionate amount of cards he gives us is proof positive of that. He doesn’t like us, and as is the way in life, if you don’t like someone/thing you tend to find fault with them/it. You tend not to give them the benefit of the doubt. It is a human trait. Referees should be above it. Oliver obviously isn’t.
I have absolutely no doubt that every one of Olivers red cards against us can be justified to some degree, one way or another. Despite a massive majority of commentators, pundits, ex players/referees and fans saying it should of been a yellow, I have still read some saying it’s a stone wall red card. That is the nature of subjectivity.
But the problem arises when someone sees almost every big subjective 50/50 call one way. This is the problem with Oliver. Just about every big 50/50 call involving Arsenal he finds against us.
That alone suggests a bias, be it conscious or sub conscious. Personally I think it’s conscious and relates to an incident with a red card a few seasons ago after which he again claimed to of received death threats.
VAR
Sadly, they are the same as Oliver. I’m not saying every big 50/50 goes against us, but the amount that do is way way above the 50% that would be normal.
PGMOL
I find it hard to know where to start. A joke doesn’t even begin to describe them.
—-
Okay, so we have won the battle but alas we will still lose the war.
The general consensus, even from those that agreed this was a poor decision, is that this was still just typical Arsenal always whinging. The media portray us that way and will continue to do so, probably even more so now.
We know, and anyone with half an eye knows, we have been absolutely done over with decisions this season that nobody else would of suffered, at least not to the same degree in one season. Yet the fact we rightly got upset about them was seen as ‘same old Arsenal, always moaning’.
And they say this with the full belief that they and their clubs NEVER moan. They always take these shocking decisions without a whimper by all accounts.
I read some comments about what a disgrace Arteta was after the match.
FFS, he hardly said a word. In fact, when asked about it Arteta actually said “I hope I don’t need to say anything about it. It’s obvious”
He kept his council and was proved right. Yet some of the criticism he was and is getting is mad. But a lot of that I believe, is that these people are pre programmed to hear these things when they are not even said. Arteta is talking therefor he must be moaning.
One last point.
I find it funny that when Arsenal fans moaned about the:
Trossard Red,
Rice Red,
Saliba Red,
LMS Red,
Disallowed goals,
Dodgy penalties against us,
Penalties not give for us.
Opposition players not sent off that should of been.
All we get is ‘But look at that hand ball Odegaard got away with at Anfield” And that’s it. That’s just about the only big 50/50 that went our way. There probably is others, but nothing like the amount that go against us.
I have no doubt that people will sit and justify every one of those calls. Fine.
But when such an enormously disproportionate amount of 50/50 calls go against you there is something seriously wrong.
And that’s exactly what happened on Saturday, and the answer to my question, how did we get to this?
Nitram,
My recollection of the Odegaard “handball” incident that Liverpool fans grumble about is that he actually fell on the ball as a result of being pushed over by a Liverpool player.
John L
Personally I don’t think it was a red. He was falling, pushed or otherwise. It is a reflex, an involuntary human reaction to put your arms out to cushion a fall.
The fact Odegaard just manged to regain his balance before hitting the ground is irrelevant.
Therefore his arms were in a natural position and it wasn’t deliberate. No handball.
But I am prepared to concede it is a subjective call and some may see it as handball. How I’m not so sure.
And here’s one of the reasons nothing will change. Nothing will improve:
This from Sky Sports News chief reporter Kaveh Solhekol:
“I think it just proves that the systems we’ve already got in place work. If you feel that you’ve been hard done by, there is a process by which you can appeal and it’s heard very, very quickly and the right decision has been reached. Arsenal ended up winning the game and Wolves had a player sent off as well, so everything has worked out.”
Really, I mean really.
Oliver made a bad mistake. AGAIN!!
VAR made a terrible mistake. AGAIN!!!
Howard Webb supported BOTH mistakes. AGAIN!!!!
“……everything has worked out”
We see massive errors after massive errors from the officials and that’s all the SKY Sports CHIEF reporter has to say.
So, we all sail merrily along, on the good ship PGMOL.
You just couldn’t make this shiteup.
If the systems we’ve already got in place worked, it would never have happened in the first place. Everything has not necessarily worked out. With 11 vs. 13, Arsenal may have gone on to win the match 3-0.
@ Nitram
I also read the following piece of prejudice in the Ipaper today, entitled, “Arsenal fans’ nine most delusional referee conspiracy theories”. This is the sort of thing with which we have to contend.
This could have been just an article about the ‘perceived’ bias raised by Arsenal fans about refereeing, objectively identifying arguments which highlighted ‘perceived’ poor instances of refereeing and allowing the reader to reach their own conclusion.
But no. We are lambasted with the derogatory opinion of a “journalist” who clearly has no intention of being objective. For the title of the article to have already included the ridiculous phrase “delusional referee conspiracy theories” is so unprofessional and is a perfect example of the inequity within the media to which we are subjected. No attempt to be impartial and objective but a clear testimony of bias, which actually emphasises the validity of our argument.
And you may wonder what the extensive background and expertise of the writer is which qualifies him to impart his knowledge and wisdom on us of all things football……….he graduated just three years ago with a degree in German and Russian. As you say, you couldn’t make this shite up………yet he did!
Mikey
Exactly.
And carrying on your theme:
In an unbiased World all reports SHOULD be about how a ridiculous ERROR against Arsenal was rightly corrected and how there are just way too many of these ‘mistakes’, not only against Arsenal but against EVERY team.
He cant even do that.
He turns it on it’s head and uses it as a day to lambaste Arsenal.
And we have twats coming here saying this anti Arsenal media bias is just in our heads.
Mikey
And also, we are not the only fans to have these so called ‘conspiracy theories’, ere we? Didn’t the Liverpool fans have similar misgivings about David Coote? And haven’t their allegations been validated, as least to degree, with the videos of him openly expressing his dislike of Klopp?
As I keep saying, I don’t believe these biases, which I 100% believe exist, are necessarily anything to do with conspiracies, they are just human beings with likes and dislikes.
As I said the other day. It is human nature to see the worst in things or people you don’t like, and the best in things and people you do. You can give the benefit of doubt to someone you would not to someone else.
Not only that but this is their job. If they think erring towards one team is going to get them constant criticism whilst erring towards another constant praise, what would you do?
Referees should be above all that but I do not believe they are.
I believe, that as well as just the normal likes and dislikes that any person may have, referees behaviours are also shaped by pressures from outside. They behave in a way that best appeases their critics and their judges in the media. They are simply looking after their job.
And screwing Arsenal, more than any other club is a damn good way to keep your job.
Oliver was unlucky. He just went one step too far. THIS TIME.
But mark my words, he will still be lauded as the best referee in the PL who’s mistakes can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
And it will remain that we are still the same old Arsenal always cheating.
My bet is Oliver will be given an Arsenal game within the next 3 weeks.
Just to add:
“Not only that but this is their job. If they think erring towards one team is going to get them constant criticism whilst erring towards another constant praise, what would you do?Referees should be above all that but I do not believe they are.”
Which is why I believe using foreign referees, flown in and out on the day, is the answer.
A pool of international referees and linesmen/women made up from all the top leagues.
VAR is even easier to neutralise. they don’t even have to leave their Country.
Just have a panel from France one week, Italy the next and so on. As long as you don’t have ex referees from the same Country as we have now there will be no fear of ‘upsetting’ or ‘undermining’ a friend or ex colleague.
The system as it is now is shambolic.
I know some would say, who would want our referees but I have said many times, take them out of the Premier League, and the glare and influence of our biased media, and they do okay. Again not perfect, but I believe our referees, by and large, perform much better when they are on International duty than domestic.
Might be wrong, but that’s the impression I get.
And don’t tell me it cant be done. This is the richest sport in the World with some of the richest owners.
The media would never allow it.