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The one and only Untold Refwatch – even more amazing than ever before

RefWatch – West Bromwich Albion v Arsenal (19/03/2011 15:00)

By DogFace

  • Referee:             Stuart Attwell
  • Assistant 1:        Peter Kirkup     
  • Assistant 2:        Martin Yerby
  • 4th Official:        Stuart Attwell

Good morning stat-fans and welcome to RefWatch! 

It’s been a busy week for me this week – pressures at work, working with a stats man (Zach Slaton from The Beautiful Numbers Game blog – more to come in future articles) and totally re-wiring my football statistics database – after 3 solid days and 8000+ lines of number crunching SQL code –  my noodle is baked!

I’m sure it’ll all be worth it in the end though… you know – when I bring you good people the data with the statistical probabilities (verging on certainties) as to which referees are bent and exactly how bent they are… if at all – it could be, for instance, that I discover that it all jolly well evens out at the end of the day, but I would be pleasantly surprised, to say the least, if that were the case.

Before we go any further I regret to inform you that this week the PGMOL have done me again… it seems, of late, that we are getting referees and fourth officials that we don’t have much in the way of a history with – if this were not a coincidence then I would be hugely flattered; as the idea of Mike Riley reading my work over his cornflakes fills me with a rosy glow and a constructive outlet for my tourette’s… WANKER *cough*.

Never mind eh – I’m sure Walter will do a sterling job in dissecting his competence on Saturday evening… I’ll look forward to that.

 Let’s have a look at the Referee:

  • Full name:                          Stuart Steven Attwell
  • Date of birth:                    6 October 1982 (1982-10-06) (age 28)
  • Place of birth:                   Nuneaton, England
  • EPL Referee Since:         2008/2009
  • EPL Games to date:       30

 

Oi, Atters – I just got word from the boss; the fix is in!

Watch Arsenal Live Streams With StreamFootball.tv

Now, we’ve got no charts for Stewie as we’ve got no real data for either Arsenal or West Brom – we’ve both had 1 game apiece under him in which we both won – although, in our match, we did more than well out of him. 

For me though, the first thing I think of when I hear the name Stewart Attwell is ‘fuckup’. Stewart ‘the fuckup’ Attwell is another referee who, it seems, has been marked for promotion at every turn – he represents the future of the PGMOL, I predict this because it is obvious.  It is not obvious, however, as to why Stewie has reached the ranks of the Select Group with such rapidity, unless of course incompetence is rewarded?

The briefest of google’s (forgive my lazy journalism) reveals many articles in a major newspapers documenting as to why Stewart Attwell should not be a referee at the highest level – here’s a rundown on a few you might remember:

Liverpool Vs Sunderland – 26/09/2010

Stewart Attwell prevents Sunderland from taking a free kick from what he deemed was a position too far forward from the original incident.  As the ball was passed back to the Sunderland goal keeper (so he could re-take the free kick as instructed), Attwell turned his back on play and Torres pounced on the dead ball (which somehow then became a live ball) before playing on Kuyt to race through on goal through a bemused Sunderland defence and score.  Attwell turns around, notices the ball is in the net and duly gives it.

Arsenal Vs Bolton Wanderers – 11/09/2010

Stewart Attwell destroys Bolton’s chance of snatching an equaliser against Arsenal by issuing a straight red Gary Cahill for foul from behind on Marouane Chamakh.  The red card was soft (especially if you consider that Chamakh is not only and Arsenal player but also a Frenchie foreign Moroccaner); Arsenal went on to win 4-1.  Nice one Stewie!

Wolverhampton Wanderers Vs Newcastle United – 28/08/2010

Stewart Attwell well and truly lost control of this right shit-kicker of a match – not only were 12 yellow cards issued but also Stewie failed to award Wolves a nailed on penalty for clear foul on Matt Jarvis.

Liverpool Vs Portsmouth – 15/03/2010

Stewart Attwell does a ‘Clattenburg’ and fails to book Steven Gerrard for lamping Michael Brown upside the head… nothing new there then.

Derby County Vs Nottingham Forest – 02/11/2008

Stewart Atwell left Paul Jewell apoplectic after he disallows two legitimate Derby goals… the match ended in a 1-1 draw.

Watford v Reading – 20/08/2008

Words defy me – check it out for yourselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0YiuSbBdaQ

But where are the stats [you cry]… ah yes – the stats, we I can’t let you go hungry can I?  Well, I’ve knocked up something of a referee crib sheet for you gooners – I mean, we all bitch about the ref, but who is the worst for us and who, indeed, has been the best?

Please find below two spreadsheets – they have been sorted by: [Avg. PPG], [Total Points], and [AH Swing] (descending and in that order i.e. best at the top and worst at the bottom).  The first chart is for this season only and the second is for the last 6 seasons (including this one).  These charts are for EPL games and Referee’s with less than 2 matches have been removed – I used Points as the number 1 factor for determining what is ‘good’ – as, at the end of the day, points mean prizes.  AH Swing is another important consideration that you should bear in mind too, but this becomes more revealing in the mid/low table teams.  Enjoy, print out and discuss down the pub:

Arsenal Ref League 2010/2011:

Matches Referee Avg. PPG Total Points Avg. AH Swing Avg. Fouls Avg. FPB Avg. Yellows Avg. Reds
3 Mark Clattenburg 3 9 2.33 9.66 4.14 2.33 0
3 Chris Foy 3 9 0.25 9.66 29 0 0
2 Peter Walton 3 6 0.875 8.5 8.5 1 0
3 Mike Jones 2.33 7 0.83 9.66 14.5 0.66 0.33
2 Martin Atkinson 2 4 -0.25 15.5 6.2 2.5 1
2 Howard Webb 1.5 3 0.25 15 5 3 0
3 Phil Dowd 0.66 2 -0.83 15 5.62 2.66 0.66
2 Mike Dean 0 0 -1.125 14 7 2 0.5

 

Arsenal Ref League 2005/2006 – 2010/2011:

Matches Referee Avg. PPG Total Points AH Swing Avg. Fouls Avg. FPB Avg. Yellows Avg. Reds
16 Chris Foy 2.68 43  0.1875 9.18 13.36 0.68 0.125
5 Mike Jones 2.6 13 2.1 9.2 7.66 1.2 0.2
11 Peter Walton 2.45 27 0.863636 8.54 9.4 0.90 0
8 Andre Marriner 2.37 19 0.59375 10.37 11.85 0.87 0
7 Mark Halsey 2.28 16 1.214285 9.42 13.2 0.71 0.14
17 Steve Bennett 2.23 38 0.352941 10.94 8.45 1.29 0
16 Mark Clattenburg 2.12 34 0.96875 10.56 6.03 1.75 0
13 Martin Atkinson 2.07 27 0.76923 10.92 7.47 1.46 0.30
20 Alan Wiley 2 40 0.3 12.35 7.96 1.55 0.05
13 Rob Styles 2 26 0.307692 9.15 6.61 1.38 0.07
3 Dermot Gallagher 2 6 0.583333 9 27 0.33 0.33
9 Mike Riley 1.88 17 -0.083333 13.22 7 1.88 0.11
12 Phil Dowd 1.83 22 0.083333 11.08 5.54 2 0.16
3 Lee Probert 1.66 5 0.333333 11.33 11.33 1 0
19 Howard Webb 1.47 28 -0.092105 13.36 5.40 2.47 0.10
11 Graham Poll 1.36 15 -0.090909 14.09 11.07 1.27 0
6 Lee Mason 1.33 8 -0.166666 10.16 3.58 2.83 0
17 Mike Dean 1.17 20 -0.352941 11.23 5.30 2.11 0.11
5 Uriah Rennie 1 5 -0.85 10 8.33 1.2 0

 

There were many other columns (generated from my new dataset) that I had to remove so these would fit on the page… about 50 in all – so lots of data for me to get my teeth into and model!

So – after all that, what should we expect from Stewart Attwell tomorrow?

Well… nothing less than a good 3 pointer will do!

61 comments to The one and only Untold Refwatch – even more amazing than ever before

  • Evil

    Has Atwell been cloned to become his own fourth official? I hope they don’t do that with Webb anytime soon …
    Other than that great preview as usual. Shame for the lack of data on Atwell, but let’s hope he manages to keep it together.

  • Tanuj

    4th ref is Tony Bates.

  • WalterBroeckx

    Dogface, I must say that the last table is really amazing. And I think you are getting closer and closer to exposing something.
    I would invite everyone to please try to look at those numbers and everyone should be keeping those numbers in his head when refs are appointed.

    If I would be doing some calciopolo thing in the EPL these numbers are as valuable as gold.

    In fact take any ref below Martin Atkinson and when he FA appoint one of these refs they could be hoping that it will cost us points.

    And is it a coincidence that most of the Fifa refs find themselves so low in this table? Are they getting rewarded for their bias with he Fifa badge?

    And I think most of us know that with Fifa refs (Excpetions exist don’t they mr. Busacca) and with refs applying the Fifa rules more strict we normally have a better chance of winning games? And yet we get the lowest points with the Fifa refs in the EPL. That is a contradiction.

    Dogface, this raises a lot of questions…

  • marcus

    Mark Clattenburg wants to resign apparently….judging by his stats I wonder if he is being pestered to ‘come to the dark side’

  • Evil

    Why Clattenburg? He is one of the refs who I feel at least try to be fair and balanced. If he resigns it will be a loss for the EPL.

  • Mick

    Very interesting stats. What could be even more interesting would be to see the stats regarding fouls against us and cards shown against us by the refs in the same matches. Would they be approximately consistent with our numbers (as they probably should) or would they show an opposite trend. That would show up a definite inconsistency from the same refs either toward or against Arsenal.

  • Wrenny

    Dean, Dowd and Webb propping up the table, no surprises there! 😀

  • bob

    @Dogface, As a real service for newcomers to the site and even to the sport, please consider defining/explaining AH Swing and AFB and why they matter. Cheers!

  • Mick

    We have to be very careful with statistics not to read too much into them. For example I could legitimately argue that the reason Webb, Dean and Dowd are at the bottom is because they tend to be in charge in the big games against Man U etc. We have, in the recent past, had a poor record against these teams so I would expect this to be reflected in the stats, which it is. I could also then go on to say, yes, we have a poor record against the other top teams but that is largely due to bad referee decisions costing us points. Conversely the Foys, Jones etc tend to officiate against teams we usually beat, hence their position at the top. It makes the gathering and interpretation of stats very difficult to assess accurately, therefore any conclusions derived from them should not neccesarily be taken as gospel.

  • walter

    Mick,
    if we take Dean. We lost with him at Chelsea. He didn’t give us a penalty, let Chelsea make a foul on Song and went on to score from that foul.
    Let us take MU last season. He refused to give us two penalties and one was the most blatant penalty I have seen for a while at OT against MU. So he cost us points there.

    And like I have explained before the cup final he has a tactic in preventing us from playing our football. Allows fouls against our defenders so we lose the ball near our own goal, doesn’t give fouls on Arshavin so we lose possesion a lot.

    If the FA sends Dean to a game of Arsenal the FA knows that we will drop points. Even against lower placed teams. So how does it come we always seem to play bad when we have Dean? Do our players suddenly lose their ability to play football when he blows his whistle? Or is it his game plan that gets on the nerves of our players?

  • GunnerfanUSA

    Dogface, I really like the last table. Please keep that table up to date in all the ref watch articles. Let’s hope Attwell doesn’t go to the dark side today!

  • DogFace

    lol… how did that happen?! Cut ‘n’ paste error – sorry!

  • Mick

    Walter
    I totally agree that we seem to get far more than our fair share of appalling decisions. I did concede that our poor results against the other top teams is quite often due to poor officiating. All I am saying is that we should be careful taking stats at their face value, there are many things which complicate them.

  • DogFace

    Mick – this is where the AH Swing numbers come into their own – that represents the performance against the betting line – if we had these referee’s in competitions we were expected to loose then we would still see good AH Swing figures if we performed as expected (i.e. according to our form) – this is the exact reason why I include this.

  • DogFace

    To explain – the AH Swing represents the average perfomance in goals againsnt the betting line for that referee – + numbers = good – numbers = bad.

  • Phil K

    I would like to know our record when Denilson has played this season. Watching the game against West Brom and he has been terrible in the first half. For a player that never passes the ball more than 10 yards, the amount of times he gives it away is unacceptable.

  • Sammy The Snake

    Dogface – Sorry to see that the real fuckup is our defence and GK.
    I never like to get on the back of the team, but this was a new low. It may not be over yet, but it’ll soon be. Our defence can’t hold up without DJ/Kosh combo.

  • DogFace

    I have never trusted Squillaci Sammy… how many times? It’s gone beyond suspicious for me.

    Almunia just needs to wise up around him.

  • Sammy The Snake

    We hadn’t conceded a goal for over 4 hours with the JD/Kosch + Szch-Man Combo. What a difference, and we must keep up with these guys for the next 9 games.

    Would AW opt for Lehman for the remainder of the season? Almunia gifted 2 goals to WBA when they beat us at the Ems… What hope can we have with Almunia/Schillaci/Denilson running the show? I don’t want to know the answer to that!

  • Prick

    In the end our most expensive players are Almunia and Squillaci. Between the two they cost us the PL.

  • wen_detta

    as usual things were not very good when persie is captain

    opss..i did it again – almoronia

    denilsan sux..

    sell both player ..

    gain more money..

  • RedGooner

    I think the Hype on the central defence is wrong.
    I have an issue with whats infront of them. Sagna’s man scored the opener and he was running back with him but couldnt prevent it.
    There is no defensive midfield right now. I will always support any player wearing Arsenal colours and that includes Denilson if he plays the next game “BUT Truth betold he wouldnt hold down his position for westbrom never mind any other premier team”

    As for Almunia lets hope Jens gets a chance the next match. I can remember several moments Jens in his career was great for us be it the unbeaten season or his semi final champs league penalty save. But Almunia I cant remeber anything of signifcance in his time at the club that made us a better team.

    Sad times all isnt lost but theres a lot of hard work to do and we need players like song/cesc/walcott back fast.

  • Tone

    OMG has it come to this? Are we hoping that a 41 year old keeper takes over in goal for us. (Blah Blah Van der Saar, yes I know, shut up)

    Everyone has been saying for ages we need a centre back a keeper and a striker, probably even another defensive mid and what do we get, nuffink!

    AW is brilliant in so many ways and he does things nobody else can and I am not one of those Arse fans calling for his head.

    I do feel he has to spend some cash though, not break the bank but buy players like Van der Vaart for example for £8m.

    And if it stunts the development of the likes of Denilson or Diaby, too bad. I don’t care about their development I care about the development of my team.

  • critic

    @dogface

    are u stupid?? 2nd goal was alumunia’s fault. What the hell he was doing so up on the pitch. He even pushed squillaci. Probably he knew, he was the current player arsenal fans are targeting.
    What a stupid keeper.

  • DogFace

    Critic… the squid let it vounce and got in Almunia’s way – schoolboy errors, stupid.

    😛

  • DogFace

    *bounce

  • DogFace

    Don’t get me wrong though – Almunia was a twat… but I might have done the same if I saw it was going to be a 1 on 1 with the damp squib!

  • DogFace

    Oh yeah… did our second goal come off a handball?

  • Mahdain

    when was the last time we kept a cleansheet when the useless trio all started? umm never? almunia,squillaci and denilson are complete shit….i know some of you will say we need to get behind our players but the four of them(plus rosucky)arent getting any backing from me….
    1.almoonya has proven time and time again just how shit he is…i have lost count on the number of points he has cost us through the years and the worst thing is that the idiot always screws up in crucial matches…jens need to start in the remaining matches he wont be any worse..we will win nothing with the clown in goal.just release him if there are no buyers
    2.then there is denilson…a pathetic excuse of a brazilian…he continues to give brazil a bad name…he cant defend,gives away cheap free kicks and concedes possession even when there is no pressure..definitely needs to go..sell him or release him or do anything to him but he shouldnt be here next season…a complete lost cause
    3.squillaci-only a slight better version of silvestre…or is he?
    4.the last and not least there is rosucky…my god where to start with him? doesnt defend,doesnt attack,gives away cheap free kicks,conceding penalties and blasting them over when he isnt even supposed to take them..in other words complete useless… a good example is vs barca match he was like a statue and just so you know we conceded 4 and i mean FOUR goals when he came on at st james
    i will really question wenger if all of the above are at the club next season

  • RedGooner

    DoggyFace, I disagree he had to let it BOUNCE because the clown behind wasnt back there to head it to…….He was right frikken beside him.

  • Adam

    Off topic so apologise first and foremost, Just looking at the results through-out the club and its a bit worrying, youth team last 9 games won 3 lost 6, reserves last 9 games won 2 drawn 2 lost 5, First team last 9 games won 3 drawn 3 lost 3. What the f**K is happening inside our club? seems to be a club wide dip in form.

  • RedGooner

    Adam easy answer.
    First team injuries
    Reserve team and youth loaned most of the best players out.

  • Hartwick89

    In a league this spectacular always expect the trophy winners will leave nothing unturned.

    MU have proven themselves and so have the Arsenal this premiership run. Both have proved

    unequal when tested w/o their most proven players. Blame, blame, everywhere and that keeps

    the blog sites running! But, what it will come down to is win, win & win. A mistake on this half of

    the season will always loom larger than the one’s in the first half… The winner’s will always

    cope with these mistakes and adjust. And, the Arsenal will adjust and cope and we will finally win! This season is coming to a head and to the champions bring the spoils! I am loving every minute of it! And, though I find myself falling victim to the blame, blame, blame every now and then…. I am very grateful and proud to what we bring as Arsenal week after week!

    I have belief this run and we will be champions…

  • Shard

    @hartwick89

    At least somebody’s keeping the hope. Even I’m still hopeful. It may not be very objective, and the team isn’t really being very reassuring in that regard, but we STILL have the title in our hands!! How that is..I don’t know. But there it is.. We have the tougher run in, we aren’t playing very well at all, but there is still some way to go. We can win this.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    While it was a very poor performance from the team , the fightback gives me hope – if only they play like that from the beginning of the game.Its not lost but a bit more uphill from now.
    With the international break ,I hope none get injuries while the rest get a good rest and come back fresh to continue our tilt at the title.
    Keep the faith !

  • DogFace

    @RedGooner – at the time it bounced Almunia was running out to meet the back pass – Almunia then panicked and kept running when Squillachi cocked it up.

  • harrish

    Again the nearly men lived up to their title wheras those crunts at OT still win aaaargghh we not even going to get second with these waste mans

  • Rhys Jaggar

    Hey guys

    Arshavin’s goal was really oozing class. Back to his best. One-two with Nasri, one touch with his right, bang with his left. Unstoppable.

    He’s pacing himself perfectly towards season’s end. Getting better week by week.

    Let’s hope he keeps doing it, eh? And inspires some others as a result…..

    Yesterday makes it more difficult, it means to keep it in our hands the league game may need to be won at White Hart Lane.

    Next time out Utd go to West Ham, we are at home. Maybe the tables will be turned then, eh?

  • steven

    I said they will bottle it up. I absolutely told you so you dumb apologists. So the dumbest draw I have ever witness and the dumbest 2nd goal the Arsenal dared to concede in my presence. Absolute shambles till the 70th min. And if this bunch of gutless no clue players had been playing it like it from the 1st min as they SHOULD after a darn week’s rest, we MIGHT just have a chance. But no, Alumnia and Squid had to come out with the most comical defending ever in football history to supplement to Sczezny’s just show Sczezny he’s one better! Well done Almunia. Well done Wenger. Well done Arsenal. You piece of shmuack.

  • steven

    I hope we NEVER have to see Almunia’s face at the club. Everything he has done he has screwed up. I hope there are HUGE changes at the club soon starting with Wenger’s immediate resignation – he has known for YEARS about our shortcomings and has chosen to do nothing about it – the goal keeping situation is hopeless and we dont have a decent centre back at the club (sorry but Vermaelin when fit still is not good enough). Our front line is almost as hopeless as our defence having to rely on someone who is perpetually injured and two hopelessly inadequate replacements in Bendtner and Chamakh. The very fact that he insists on playing 4-5-1 suggests to me he has no confidence in either strikers. Our most effective formation is 4-4-2 with the second striker dropping off but now his strategy is to crowd the midfield with small technically gifted players like Fabregas and Wilshere – there is no one to shake things up or put in a crunching tackle to break up the atrack. I can see nothing positive at Arsenal and no signs that things will change – if Wenger wanted to change he would have done so last season or the season before that. I can tell you what will happen and that is towards May time he will unveil plans to buy “one or two players” before the start of the season – this is merely done to ensure that the club get their season ticket sales. Then Wenger will buy some unknown nobody from the french first or second division and a washed up former international and the usual smattering of young players with “huge potential” and then we will be given the usual “the team has matured after the disappointment of last season” and then the usual deja vu as yet another season collapses – in the meantime Chelsea, Man Utd, City, Spurs and Liverpool will be adressing their weaknesses by signing world class players and we will once again have Wenger.

    Sadly, I think history will tell us yesterday’s game statistically cost us the title. I absolultely dispair how game after game, season after season, we continue to concede goals to the simple lump into the area and Wenger just fails to accept its a major problem. I don’t expect the 2nd string squad players to be match winners like the 1st 11 but I do expect them to be proficient in the art of football basics. As for Almunia, well again only Wenger can explain why he is still at Arsenal. I’m told Fergie rang ManU-al last night and promised him a seat on his teams open-top parade bus in May next to Howard Webb as both have responsible for handing them vital points this season. Lastly, since Wenger himself was a centre half in his playing days, why is he so clueless in the art of defending?

  • steven

    Give it up lads – we don’t have a hope in hell of winning the title this year.

    Accept it now cos you’re only building yourself up for a massive fall.

    Wenger you are a blind stubborn old c**t – fuck you and your average Championship players.

    Fuck Almunia – the single biggest joke of the Premiership
    Fuck the medical staff – where areour fucking players
    Fuck you Mr. Wenger

    FUCK IT FUCK IT FUCK IT

  • steven

    I have just heard on Sky Sports news that he thinks yesterdays come back will give us mental strength to go on and win the title….

    WHAT THE F*CK IS HE ON. Was he watching a different game to me?

    It showed that we are simply not strong enough. He had the opportunity to buy a keeper and centre backs, but instead let his ego once again get in the way.

    MENTAL STRENGTH?? DENILSON,SQUID,ALMUNIA

    This is a sad day for me, but I have to say…..

    He has to go I’m afraid

  • Mandy Dodd

    Cretin

  • walter

    On topic about the ref who I am reviewing for the moment. He had a decent first half. 😉 yesterday I had to watch it on a stream on the internet and with the sun in the stadium it was sometimes hard to see what was going on. So having a good and better view of things. And now after 1,5 game of seeing ATwell I can see a weakness showing. But as he is young I hope he can work this out. But still a half to come.

  • walter

    Well Steven if Wenger would have done what you had told him to do we now would be doing it with Shea in goal. A 17-18 year old young man. In fact that Shea would have had to play at Nou Camp and at Old Trafford.
    Then you would have said : why did he sell Almunia he was a good third goal keeper. Because in January we had 3 goalkeepers : Szczesny, Almunia and Manone.
    But did you knew by then that both Szczesny and Manone would be injured now at the same moment? How many keepers do you want us to have? 7 or 8?

    But I guess I am waisting my time. I recal a certain Steven coming out of the mud last year when we lost it at the end. My God it must have been a long wait out there…

    And well this supporter is not giving up you know. I am writing an article about this season and it shows some very strange things for both the top and the bottom in the EPL this season compared to others

  • walter

    And statisticly we still have it in our own hands. Players will come back after the international break. And players who would have been sold if it depended on some fans in the knowing. PLayers like Song and Walcott who were declared rubbish a few seasons but who have grown.

    I admit others have stopped growing this season and this might be a worry for those players future at Arsenal

  • Tasos

    Great comeback. I’m sure the likes of Steven were disappointed we didn’t capitulate and bottle it at 2-0 down.

    I can see it all now, all those journalists ripping up their headlines as Arsenal produced a spirited fightback inside the final 20 minutes. Shame.

    The League is STILL in our hands. Regroup, recover and re-gain some form and this team might yet have the last laugh.

    “Give it up” …..your having a laugh. Come on Gunners!!!

  • Dark Prince

    To Walter & all the Optimists- you all still backing Almunia, Squillaci and Denilson??

  • walter

    Dark Prince, I back The Arsenal. Who ever is out on the field.

    And I know that some of them are only on the field because of injuries of other players. I know that you cannot have 25 world class players in the 25 squad becuase you cannot find 25 world class players who are willing to sit on the bench waiting for injuries.

    So I am realistic that the some of the second string players are not as good as the first choice players. But if they keep us in the title race until the better players come back I am satisfied.

    And yes I am hoping for the most important players to come back after the international break. Cesc, Song, Walcott will make a big difference. If we get them back everything is possible. If they don’t come back it will be a hard fight. But I never give up (hope) untill we are mathematicly out of it.

    So to come back to your question: if he have to support them because they have to play, I will support them.

    After the season it is up to the manager to make up his mind.

  • steven

    @Darkprince 0 dont bother explaing yourself mate – Its groundhog day all over again. The apologists will continue to back wenger no matter what you say

  • Dark Prince

    Walter, Thanks for your diplomatic answer.

    I can only say one thing. All the supporters, not only here, but the world all over back The Arsenal. But most of them, i may say around 99% (only , dont back players who lack commitment and dont have the required talent to compete at Arsenal’s level.

  • Dark Prince

    Steven- I still back Wenger for the job. Simply bcoz he’s the best. But what i dont back is our Arsenal board. Its bcoz of them that Wenger is facing all this criticism. Its bcoz of them Wenger is not able to sign quality players of his choosing regardless of the value. As i’ve said earlier, our Manager’s hands are tied. Remember, this is the same manager who once bought high quality players at prices which were quite big 10-12yrs ago.

  • Ugandan Goon

    why can’t we comment on the ref review?

  • WalterBroeckx

    Blimey I just saw it. I think I did something wrong. I will try to fix it immediatly…

  • WalterBroeckx

    Ugandan, I fixed it. sorry for messing it up a bit…

  • DogFace

    Bloody hell Steven, calm down – take some deep breaths… and post your crap somewhere else.

    OK – I have some critisism’s of a couple of players but you are going too far, you are just regurgitating the same old bollocks!

  • Bexxy

    Even the finest foods in the land have a sell by date. How many in our ranks have passed theirs?

  • RedGooner

    A few Bexxy, However thats a discussion for the summer months when we are bored stiff, there is oddly enough still a league to play for.
    Lets hope some injured players return after the inter match lull.

  • Dark Prince

    I dont why we say that we lose points bcoz we have many 1st teams players missing. Seriously, isn’t the likes of nasri, van persie, arshavin, wilshere, ramsey, koscielny, clichy, sagna have enough talent to win against west brom?? I mean its west brom for god’s sake!! Manu beat us by a make shift defence and midfield and 2 full backs in the winger’s position!! What is d problem with this team?? Has it become so much dependant on Fabregas??

  • Dave Right

    Re. Arsenal Vs Bolton Wanderers – 11/09/2010. Are you sure “Nice one Stewie” is an appropriate comment for this ‘future of refereeing’ shoe in. Check out the bits Garry and the gang didn’t show in their highlights.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD2oThVsw8Q

  • DogFace

    Nice one Dave – great video, thank god for the internet! I was at this match so I didn’t have the benifit of seeing this “live” on telly… although I do remember that clatter on Diaby.

    To be fair though – I did point out that he was a walking/talking fuckup.

    😉