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Untold ref review : WBA – Arsenal sour grapes or not?

By Walter Broeckx, the biased untold ref according to some but not to others..

So for the second time we had ref Stuart Atwell this season. Last time a comfortable win this time a draw. What did I make of the ref? Just read on if you want.

Min Type Decision C/NC points weight on
1 OFFSIDE Offside against WBA C 1 1 1
3 GOAL Nothing against the rules with this goal C 1 3 3
4 OTHER Dangerous tackle on Sagna. A tackle from the front, studs showing. The ref gives advantage but please ref there is a difference between possessioin and advantage. There was not a real promising attack going on. Even the linesman waved his flag to signal the foul to the ref. NC 0 0 1
4 CARD This should have been punished with at least a yellow card and when you look at the picture and you see the player flying in off the floor studs showing and his foot higher than the ball it has to be a red card. NC 0 0 3
7 OFFSIDE Offside given against Arsenal. Call was wrong because when Ramsey played the ball to Clichy Ramsey was further up the field and he didn’t play the ball forward. NC 0 0 1
11 OTHER Foul on Ramsey not given NC 0 0 1
14 OTHER Foul on Arshavin given C 1 1 1
17 OTHER Foul on Van Persie not given but advantage given. This looked more like a promising attack C 1 1 1
17 OFFSIDE Offside against WBA C 1 1 1
17 CARD The ref comes back to the foul on Van Persie and gives the yellow card. This is how it should be done C 1 2 2
19 OTHER Koscielny and Morrison clash heads. The ref stops play when he sees one stays down., It takes alsmost 2 minutes before the game restarts C 1 1 1
23 OFFSIDE Offside against WBA C 1 1 1
24 OTHER Foul on Ramsey not given NC 0 0 1
24 OTHER Foul Van Persie not given NC 0 0 1
30 OTHER Foul on Ramsey given C 1 1 1
31 OTHER Foul from Sagna given C 1 1 1
34 OTHER Meite connects with the cross and it comes of his shin and the keeper takes the ball in his hands. No back pass C 1 1 1
34 OFFSIDE Offside given against Arshavin. But the ball never came to him as it came to Van Persie. The linesman was to quick to raise his flag NC 0 0 1
36 OTHER Foul from Denilson given C 1 1 1
36 CARD The ref gives him a well deserved yellow card. Again it takes almost 2 minutes before we restart the game C 1 2 2
40 OFFSIDE Offside given against Arsenal C 1 1 1
41 OTHER Foul from Arshavin C 1 1 1
41 OTHER Sagna and sharner clash heads and the ref stops play. Again 2 minutes go by without playing. C 1 1 1
44 OFFSIDE Offside against WBA C 1 1 1
45 OTHER 4 minutes extra time is given. I think it should and could have been a bit more. NC 0 0 1
45+ OTHER Handball given against WBA. Correct he jumped in the air with his arms spread from his body and his arms not in front of his face C 1 1 1
48 OTHER Jack Wilshere gives a unnecessary push when the ball rolls out of play. The WBA who is 2 feet bigger than little Jack things it is unacceptable and makes a big problem. The ref has a word with both. Good decision from the ref to calm it down like that. C 1 1 1
50 OTHER Foul from Koscielny not given NC 0 0 1
52 OTHER Foul on Koscielny not given advantage sign given C 1 1 1
55 OTHER Foul from Van Persie C 1 1 1
58 OTHER Foul on Wilshere not given. But as Wilshere stays on his feet the ref let play continue.  Costly one in our attack in fact. This leads to Clichy losing the ball. NC 0 0 1
58 GOAL Well a lot of things went wrong with the goal itself but nothing against the rules C 1 3 3
59 OTHER Foul on Arshavin not given but advantage given. Good decision C 1 1 1
60 OTHER Foul from Koscielny given C 1 1 1
60 CARD A scissor tackle and so Koscielny gets a well deserved yellow card C 1 2 2
61 OTHER Foul given against WBA a bit of a wild challenge but not close to the player C 1 1 1
63 PENALTY Chamakh looks to be blocked but no replay suggest that he was deliberatly blocked. So the ref gives nothing and I didn’t see any pictures that made me change my mind C 1 3 3
64 OTHER Foul on Nasri not given NC 0 1 1
64 OTHER Foul on Wilshere given C 1 1 1
66 OTHER Foul against Arsenal – because of the many replays and letting us look at faces of managers I don’t know why so lets us assume it is correct C 1 1 1
66 OTHER Foul on Chamakh C 1 1 1
69 OTHER Foul on Sagna C 1 1 1
70 OTHER Boom says our little Russian. Goal. Nothing wrong with that goal C 1 3 3
72 OFFSIDE Offside against WBA C 1 1 1
78 GOAL A bit of a freaky goal but they all count. Nothing wrong with Van Persie but the question we should ask ourselfs is was it handball from Bendtner? After hours of trying to see the incident from various available angles the best picture I could come up with of any contact between Bendtner and the ball was this one below. There is a goal post and a support post between Bendtner and the camera angle. The arm of Bendtner looks to be close to his body (as far as I can see it). It does seems to touch his arm or his shoulder? Beat me I cannot say it based on the material I have. And as I follow the rule from the start of the season that as long as I cannot be a 100% sure that the decision on the field was wrong, the decision on the field is correct. I also would like to say that no WBA player appealed for handball during the action. C 1 3 3
80 OTHER Foul on Nasri given by the assistant C 1 1 1
80 OTHER Foul on Chamakh given C 1 1 1
81 OTHER Foul from Nasri given C 1 1 1
81 CARD Refs gives a card but there was not that much contactand it was more the reaction from the crowd that made him give the card. Nasri just stayed on his feet and never really attacked the defender. Sorry ref this was a wrong card NC 0 0 2
83 PENALTY Penalty claim for Arsenal because of the ball touching he arm of a WBA defender. If it did it came of the defender his head first so no real intention can be seen then. C 1 3 3
84 PENALTY Squilacci with a one on one and with a very good block on the ball. Not even close to a penalty but the crowd would have liked one. Good work from the ref C 1 3 3
86 OTHER Foul on Arshavin C 1 1 1
90+ PENALTY Two shouts for a penalty. One or handball which it was not C 1 3 3
90+ PENALTY Sagna went down but I could not see much contact so I will agree with the ref on this also C 1 3 3
             
  TOTAL     42 64 78
  %     77,78% 82,05%  
             
  CARDS   3 5 60,00  
  PENALTY   6 6 100,00  
  GOAL   4 4 100,00  
  OTHER   4 5 80,00  
  OFFSIDE   5 7 71,43  
             
      22 27 81,48  

 

So the calling for sour grapes brigade can leave me alone this time. We lost points in a frustrating game but the one that will blame the ref for this one will have to convince that I am losing sight in both my eyes.

A good overall performance from the ref. Lots of good decisions. He got the very numerous penalty calls all right. So at the end of the day he got a very well deserved high rating from my part.

BUT if you will allow me I want to draw your attention to this incident.

Right after WBA scored their first goal there was a tackle against Sagna and if you look at the picture you can see that this was a very dangerous tackle. The kind of tackle that can break legs. As this was the same ref who did the game Arsenal – Bolton this season I clearly remembered that he didn’t see the brutal and dangerous tackle from a Bolton players on Diaby. It was missed then and was missed now. Okay he played the advantage which was just possession and not advantage in fact but he didn’t give a card after that. And I think this is, just like against Bolton the only real criticism I can give to the ref.

If he can keep his eyes a bit more open for these reckless and dangerous tackles and produce the cards when he sees them he can be a great ref.

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42 comments to Untold ref review : WBA – Arsenal sour grapes or not?

  • WalterBroeckx

    For those who wanted to comment before I must appologise because I think I have done something wrong when publishing the article.
    It is not that I turned the censorship on when it comes to ref reviews. So feel free to comment

  • Justdoit

    It was the pitch what done it 🙂 Arsene says no more tackling and everuyone must have bowling green pitch or it’s JUST NOT FAIR 🙁

  • DogFace

    Looked like handball to me for our second goal!

    😉

    I have no complaints for the referee… he was a bit weak but didn’t show any obvious bias either way.

  • bc

    No probelms with the ref, he is no more inconsistent than anyone else. Until FIFA allow technology, i am afraid we will never solve this problem. When refs were first introduced they were taking charge of a bunch of amatuers, they played Football as their second form of income or to some even their 3rd as they played cricket in the summer as well. The players trained once a week, drank alcohol and smoked 100 fags a day. Now it is completely different sure that have a couple of assistant’s, but is obviously not enough for the modern day game. There should be 4 side line assistants and 4 goal line assistants as well as technology, 2 refs, one on the pitch and one to view the technology. The ref should always give any decision if he is in any doubt. Teams could then be allowed 3 decision challenges per half, that need to be called immediately that they think they have been adjudged unfairly. The refs then instead of having a long drawn out argument with players followed by a long discussion with his assistants, would simply ask for the technology ref to make the decision which is final. This would take so much pressure of the refs as the technology ref could be unreachable during the match.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    The ‘we wuz robbed’ award for the weekend undoubtedly goes to Birmingham City at the DW.

    Has anyone ever seen a more blatant penalty in their life? Blatantly playing the man no-where near the ball. Not given. Score at the time: 1-1 with a few minutes left.

    Wigan then score last minute and win 2-1.

    Table if Birmingham win: Birmingham 34pts, Wigan 27pts.

    Birmingham about 13th, Wigan adrift at the bottom.

    As it is, Birmingham 31pts 19th place, Wigan 30 pts 2pts from safety.

    If Arsenal want to whinge this weekend, take a look in the mirror.

    McLeish has far more reason to.

  • Sean

    I’d say that this was a game AFC failed to win because of their own failings (the goalkeeper/central defenders?), not that of the officials.
    Saw the rugby league on the TV last night (St. Helens v Leeds) and Leeds were awarded a try from a pass which went a clear two yards forward but, for reasons I’ve never quite understood, when the decision went to the 4th official he couldn’t legally call on the forward pass aspect of the try and so HAD to award the try to Leeds!
    If that had been Man. Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea etc. we’d never hear the last it, toys out of the pram, tears at bedtime, the full immature works.
    St. Helens?
    Felt hard done to, used it as motivation, won the game from a losing position.
    Of course, they could have bleated on about having been hard done to and sulked…..and not won.
    Always an option.
    The England football team do it every two years.

  • jbh

    A good review and I agree that Atwell didn’t directly affect the result which is fair. However, the figures I look at first are number of mistakes/errors and who they favour. In this game the score is very similar to the rest of the EPL games. Number of mistakes/errors in favour of Arsenal 1, in favour of WBA 11.
    This 90% bias cannot be down to home ground advantage as Arsenal get similar scores every week, home and away – just look at the last game vs Sunderland.

  • FunGunner

    Thanks, walter – I thought he did well as well. He may have been unsighted for the Thomas tackle, which I believe the linesman signalled as a foul.

    @ Sean
    Has walter even suggested that this result was in any way down to poor officiating? No. On th contrary he has praised the ref. What’s your problem with Arsenal?

  • Sammy The Snake

    Fully deserved loss for Gunners on this occassion.

  • Many thanks for these reports. It’s a great service.

    I’d just like to add to bc’s comments regarding the technology. Obviously in agreement with the technology but I would also suggest an independent time-keeper who counts the time down.

    Every time the ball is out of play, for whatever reason, the clock stops. Once the agreed time span has been played, that’s it, end of game.

    No extra time. No Fergie time.

  • DogFace

    Pssst – @Sammy, we didn’t lose!

  • eche

    I pity myself, arsene, arsenal fans and all who still believe that arsenal are still fighting for the league. they are not and they will not finish second. the reason is simple, give arsene 20million dollars and the league and he will take the former. he said that he knew that vermalean will not fit for the season and yet the reason he chose not to buy in January was becuase he said that vermalean will be fit in a month’s time. what a coach. what a liar. what a deciever

  • walter

    About the time wasting. Yes WBA started doing this from the moment they were in front. But I heard him blow his whistle on many occasions and even have seen him doing signals with this hands to speed it up on a few times.
    I think he could have done with an extra minute extra time. Well that is something I do when team push the time wasting too far. But 4 minutes can be defended just as 5 minutes could have been valid.

    But when I have to talk about such things it means that he had a rather good game.

  • walter

    jbh,
    I didn’t count the not giving fouls this time. Thanks for having it done in my place. I must say I didn’t have that feeling at the time but this is infact a bit worrying and which went even under my radar system.

  • walter

    Zedsuncle I like your idea very much. As it would make time wasting worthless and would make the playing time more attractive.

  • Didn’t have any problems with the refereeing myself, there was one thing I think I noticed and was sure you would pick-up on Walter but I guess I may have been wrong…

    At some point Clichy (I think) took a throw-in to Arshavin, who was immediately given offside. I was under the impression you cannot be offside from a throw-in, corner, goal-kick e.t.c?

    Not really a biggie or game-changing incident so it doesn’t really matter, but did I hallucinate this?

  • jayj

    I was at the game, 4 free tickets. Looking back I would definatly say Arsenal were rubbish, sitting amongst the WBA fans even they couldn’t believe how rubbish Arsenal played, every simple move broke down as soon as pass was made by Denilson. Alumina what a liability, ok the defender misjudged the bounce but what was Alumina doing??? 2 points losts again by sheer stupidity no other keeper in the country would do that. Arshavin’s goal was great Van Persie’s was lucky but nothing lost yet.

  • steven

    Anyone who suggests that they want a change of Manager on this site gets dismissed as anti-Arsenal etc. etc. I personally don’t agree with them that Wenger should leave, but I dont think that pro-Wengerites need panic if he did leave. There are other fish in the ocean. How many of us knew of Wenger before he joined Arsenal? Can you not remember the Arsene-who headlines when he joined? There have been several suggestions on this site of possible replacements for Wenger – some of them interesting. In addition, there are other potential managers out there that are the next Arsene-who(s) that you and I dont know of yet and can do a great job. Wenger has been a great manager and he deserves our full respect and he deserves several attempts to get it right at Arsenal. But the question we should be asking is Wenger able to take Arsenal to the next level? You and I don’t really know the answer. We don’t know if Wenger would remain stubborn to his vision and refuse to strengthen the team with the 3 or so players that we all seem to agree Arsenal needs badly to move to the next level. We don’t know if he is going to stick with the Denilsons, Diabys, Rosickys, Squids in the squad. Those seeking Wenger’s dismissal have taken the view that he is too narrow-visioned, too stubborn, to change is mind……and thus the same capitulation of our season is goining to happen again in the 2011/12 season and beyond. So dont vilify them – Wenger has good form here. The rest of us pro-Wengerites are optimists who hope that Wenger will finally see the error in his ways and will strengthen the squad in the right places in the Summer. We will soon find out.

  • steven

    We got squilaci,Chelsea got David Luiz, why didn’t we buy him Arsene always states if somebody would improve our squad and they are at a good price we will get them well we paid £10.5m for koscielny and david luiz is £21m and is only 22 he is class. don’t get me wrong i rate kosceilny. it just shows that we are definitely losing ground on the teams around us be the end of next season we will be out of the top four. IF we don’t improve radically this average squad. we will be lucky to finish in the top four this year just watch how bad it gets over the next couple of weeks now the bottle has well and truely gone spurs do the double over us get beaten by man utd no point even playing that game may aswell let them have the three points. were embarrassing. I am pleased with the way the club is run in the sense we are profitable but that has to come second to success, i love the way we try to bring players through but if there not good enough they gotta go you can’t keep giving them chances, i think we lack alot of balance we need some body who really wants to win at all costs like a roy keane type, song is a good player but he is to nice and dopey he really needs fight.

    It is a shame that all our players are injury prone i wonder if its the turf at the emirates is it on concrete or something we have half our first team squad injured with misterious injuries all season for the last three. but that said you can’t hang on to these players why rosicky was given a contract extension after his injury is beyond belief. and we never you used to play football like this when pires,henry,viera,bergkamp and all those where here why the sudden obsession with this kind of possession football i don’t like it, i like to watch really fast flowing football not this one paced try and brake the other team down with 17 pass move. ok its good when it comes off but how many goals have we scored through putting 10 passes together not many it doesn’t work as a tactic. you need to have a solid defence so teams bring alot of players forward at the moment teams attack us with a striker and 2 midfielders and get joy out of it. we need teams to attack us with all there midfield and there forwards but to be able to with stand that you need a solid defence. so you can get the ball EARLY to your attacking players this has been lost we rarely score brake goals any more. i think we are not far away but it is frustrating to think we would have won this league if we bought david luiz fact………..

    I’ve been a fan since 1967/8. Went to 1st game @ Highbury – 3-0 v Utd. They wore yellow & the holy trinity of Best, Law & Charlton. I’ve stood on the North Bank when it cost 70p. Been there with the likes of Big Jim and Denton (RIP) when Spurs, WHUFC et al tried to take the NB. I’ve watched and supported players like Rimmer (cheered him on when he messed up to give WBA a 1-2 victory) Hawley, Price & Powling. (Heard of them?) I also was there when Willie Young made his debut, gave away a pen and we lost 1-4 to Ipswich. I was at Highbury and was the 1st AFC fan to shake hands with Brian Talbot when he signed from Ipswich in 78/9. I’ve seen Brady, Stapleton, O’Leary make their debuts. I’ve seen the likes of SuperMac make his debut in ’74 -lost 0-1 at home to promoted Bristol City and was there when Rix made his debut against Ipswich (won 3-1, 3-0 up in first 10 mins O’Leary 2 headers and Rix 1.) Sunderland debut (1-1 Vs Coventry) lashing with rain (Al scores 2-1 given offside) I’ve stood on the North Bank on a Friday night for a 0-0, snow falling, when 13-18 thou’ turned up Vs Norwich. Only chance was Radford 88th minute header hit the crossbar. I’ve also taken the reserves away when Charlie Nic was here – injured, our reserves inc Rocky (RIP) Sunderland, Chapman and Allision -lost 2-1. Was there when Valencia beat us UEFA Final in 80, was there at Anfield 89, OT 98 & 02 & WHL in 04. Was there when we won the title 1st time under GG – Limpar from the half way line & I was there for fifth reply against Sheff Wed – we won 1-0 & went on the win FA Cup (’79) I was 1 of 55,000 who saw us beat Man City in League Cup – ‘dubious’ pen conceded by Dave Watson/SuperMac scored by Liam in 85th

  • steven

    so it looks like there’s a protest march at finsbury park station before the liverpool home game????the protest is about wenger not buying top-class players(fair enough)and in theory it’s not about wanting wenger out,it’s more about him not buying 2/3 top class players.i understand that,infact i’m going to liverpool home so i think i’ll pop over and take a look.i think it’s fans saying to wenger now,buy or may’be move up stairs and let’s get a new manager in.there is no doubt the pressure will get to wenger and the arsenal board and the meeting that they’ll have at the end of the season will make or break wenger as manager.personally i hope he swallows this stubborn pride of his cause the truth is we are just 2/3 experienced player’s short from winning trophies again.will be very interesting to see how many turn up.i’ll certainly take a look,even have a chat with a few just to get their point of view which is fair enough.c’mon you reds.

  • walter

    So yes Steven that all maybe very fine but then I ask myself: and what has this got to do with the ref?

  • walter

    John even I have missed this!
    Could you give me an idea when this was? And yes you cannot be offside when you receive the ball from a throwin or a corner and a goal kick.

  • prick

    I had wondered to myself whether the rules had changed and you can be offside during a throw in nowadays. Thanks for clearing it up walter! Couldn’t give you the exact minute when it happened, but it did happen. We were given offside during a throw in.

  • Marcus

    steven
    March 20th, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    so it looks like there’s a protest march at finsbury park station before the liverpool home game????the protest is about wenger not buying top-class players(fair enough)and in theory it’s not about wanting wenger out,it’s more about him not buying 2/3 top class players.i understand that,infact i’m going to liverpool home so i think i’ll pop over and take a look.i think it’s fans saying to wenger now,buy or may’be move up stairs and let’s get a new manager in.there is no doubt the pressure will get to wenger and the arsenal board and the meeting that they’ll have at the end of the season will make or break wenger as manager.personally i hope he swallows this stubborn pride of his cause the truth is we are just 2/3 experienced player’s short from winning trophies again.will be very interesting to see how many turn up.i’ll certainly take a look,even have a chat with a few just to get their point of view which is fair enough.c’mon you reds.

    ———

    Steven, Fabregas will go this summer, I think the hugging and kissing at Bernabeu tells us that…..

    Maybe one or two others…

    So Arsene will have a big kitty, and he will buy players for sure.

    No point speculating on who he will buy…..

    But actually Fabregas going has been on the cards for two seasons. I think when AW moved him forward it was not just tactical, it also meant that he started bagging goals and therefore his market value mushroomed.

    In a way losing Fab is not all bad, we have many players who play in the hole….personally I have always thought Arshavin is the next Peter Beardsley, (if you know what I mean)

    A lot of onus on the midfield…JW, AS, and I can see one or two biggish names coming in …a Melo, or even a Charlie Adam

  • Dark Prince

    Marcus- there is no guarantee that Wenger will buy anyone to replace Fabregas if he leaves. It could be possible that one of Ramsey or Rosicky may come in the starting 11 in his place.

  • Andrew Chua

    Whether Wenger buy is a question. He’s got 18 loanees to justify. And assuming he is willing to go into the transfer market, I bet he will be looking at everything French. If you are talking about Ref bias, what about this French buying?

  • Andrew Chua

    We fans are in an emotional stage at this critical stage. Do not rock the boat. We should get behind Arsenal (note Arsenal, not Wenger). If there is going to be bloodbath, let it be after the season.

  • La Shiz

    I would love to have a closer look at our second goal. I still can’t be sure after watching the replay 20 times whether it was the upright or Bendtner’s hand that the ball hit. Perhaps, finally the refereeing gods have smiled upon us?

    Steven, that certainly was a good read, even if I may not agree on some counts. Also, I doubt Wenger will change something, if at all anything in his managerial style, provided how close we have come this season. He may make some changes to the formation or tactics, as he is already doing. Taking Denilson off at half time was a 100% correct decision. Also, bringing on Chamakh at the 57th minute instead of waiting for the customary 66th.

    Anyway, here’s hoping for a good April!

  • La Shiz

    PS: The Sagna tackle is a Red card by any standards. Did you see the Evans sending off? Why do referees have to wait until someone gets their leg broken before someone is sent off.

  • Rhys Jaggar

    Another disgraceful decision yesterday in the Sunderland-Liverpool game.

    Ref gives correct decision, free kick outside box. Then linesman flags saying penalty.

    Clarence Seedorf smirked on MOTD2 and said: ‘he was sent a message!’

    Who from is the question from that?

    If the answer is Sky TV, Mr James Murdoch has some questions to answer in Parliament………

  • Tasos

    For our second goal, the ball hits the post then rebounds towards RVP. Bendtner does not touch the ball here.

    Steven@

    “We got squilaci,Chelsea got David Luiz, why didn’t we buy him Arsene always states if somebody would improve our squad and they are at a good price we will get them well we paid £10.5m for koscielny and david luiz is £21m and is only 22 he is class”.

    The reason we cannot afford to buy players like David Luiz is a simple case of economics. We bid £23m and Abramovich bids £24m, we bid £25m and he bids £26m and so on and so on until Abramovich gets his man. We have been and possibly always will be unable to compete on the transfer market and then the wage structure with the “sugar daddy” owners, regardless of whoever our manager is.

    Its not sport, certainly not the way I see it but until FFP is properly implemented, we will always have to punch above weight and Arsene Wenger is still the best man out there at doing that, imo.

  • La Shiz

    @Tasos: So when Peter Hill-Wood comes out after every season since 2008 and says that Arsenal are now financially secure and have the funds to compete with the likes of Chelsea and Citeh, and Wenger says that he will not abstain from spending big amounts for the right player, he means compete only for players under 18 or for players they aren’t interested enough in anyway.
    Wouldn’t you at least agree that these statements are a bit of an eyewash?

  • DogFace

    Just enhancing the brand Rhys… Murdoch seems to think that football is as addictive as crack-cocaine – and what with him being the supplier he has carte blance to cut it with whatever crap he likes and we’ll still buy it.

    He is wrong.

  • DogFace

    @steven – there’s no protest march trolly boy – and if there is it’ll be a few of those black/yellow scarf wearing turds who’ll get 10 paces before their chants die down to a murmer and their goose-steps morph into a shuffle.

  • Laundryender

    Steven,

    Your Memory fails you, I clearly remember Rix debut (Rixy is better than Hoddle) it was Leicester. And we bought Supermac in 76 not 74, for £333,333,33. I remember a picture of the cheque was on the back page of the Sun.

    However like me you have seen it all before, remember UEFA cup qualification being all we could hope for by January, pushing for 5th place. Home losses against lower opposition, disgruntled supporters. Praying for the big signing that never came.

    Where we are now does not compare, we are simply spoilt in comparison to those days you talk about.

    Remember when we won the league at WHL, OT and Anfield, it was before the days of financial doping in football. The playing field is no longer level.

    I wonder if it is further destabilisised by the money in the game, the creation of massive betting markets, and the emergence of the SKY theatre!

    It is the questions raised that make this site intriguing and alternative. I hope it stays that way, for me it has become a “must visit site” when online. The contribution from ordinary readers is often insightful, and rarely clichéd, this I also hope remains a fact.

  • Walter,

    I had a look through the game (luckily Canal+ have a replay feature because I couldn’t find it in online highlights).

    The offside throw-in was at 06:35 into the game, Clichy actually throws the ball into Ramsey right down in the corner and Ramsey appears to be called offside.

  • walter

    Okay John it is in the incident I wrote down in the7th minute as a wrong call from the refs. Ramsy couldn’t be offside from the throw and then he gave the ball back but as far as I could see Ramsey was almost on the goal line when he played it back to Clichy who was behind the ball and you need to be in front of the ball and the second last opponent to be in an offside position. So that was a wrong call from the assistant.
    He made another mistake when AA was offside but the ball was played in his direction but RVP was in between and controlled the ball. So that linesman had two wrong decisions in this game

  • Tasos

    @ La Shiz

    Arsenal are secure, although they still owe money for the new stadium. That is factually correct but there’s a huge difference in being a well run club that’s financially stable to one that can compete with a billionaire sugar daddy owner like Abramovich, who’s club owe him somewhere in the region of £500m. A Massive amount of debt that is virtually written off by one man.

    Its makes sound business sense for Peter Hill-Wood to make positive comments on the clubs financial front. Don’t forget the club has other issues to deal with, for instance, sponsors will need to be attracted to invest in our club.

    The fact is, Arsenal are financially stable but anyone who still believes we can go toe-to-toe with Chelsea or City in the transfer market, without virtually crippling the club, are sadly lying to themselves.

    Unfortunately for most clubs in the PL, Arsenal included, Abramovich initially and more recently Sheikh Mansour have changed the face of Football from a financial perspective. Its a harsh reality and one that takes away the whole ethos of the sport imo. Therefore blaming Arsene Wenger and/or Arsenal FC for our lack of transfers/trophies is an extremely short sighted opinion.

  • wen_detta

    arsenal miss david dein..

  • Andrew Chua

    @Tasos

    …”Don’t forget the club has other issues to deal with, for instance, sponsors will need to be attracted to invest in our club.”

    You are right about the sponsors… Then again, why am I watching Shrek’s fuck face every weekend on the beer promo and MU team on the airline sponsor? Why not Arsenal?

    We don’t win trophies we don’t get sponsors. Simple as that. There has to be winning team and recognisable star player(s).

    Take a look at David Luiz. How many jerseys has Chelsea sold after he came on board?

  • Tasos

    Andrew

    I don’t have all the answers, I don’t claim to know all the solutions either, unfortunately.

    I just give My opinion. Untold allows us the opportunity to voice that opinion.

  • Frank Rizzo

    I agree that the referee had a decent game. For those interested, i’ve seen the replays of the second goal several times and it was definitely not handball from Bendtner – the ball definitely hit the post.