If you think you know your Arsenal, it is time to think again. Woolwich Arsenal, the club that changed football.
———————————
Arsenal’s RVP strategy will soon be written up as a classic manoeuvre; no matter what the player does Arsenal win.
By Tony Attwood
There are a number of things that can happen to RVP. These are divided into three groups
Group 1: He stays with Arsenal and
a) repeats his brilliance of last season
b) stays uninjured but can’t repeat that one season of glory
c) gets injured a lot
Group 2: He leaves Arsenal for a lot of money (say £25m which is a lot for an injury prone 29 year old) and
a) repeats his brilliance of last season for another club
b) stays uninjured but can’t repeat that one season of glory
c) gets injured a lot
Group 3: He leaves Arsenal for not so much cash (say £10m which is not a lot for an injury prone 29 year old) and
a) repeats his brilliance of last season for another club
b) stays uninjured but can’t repeat that one season of glory
c) gets injured a lot
So which ones are the best news for Arsenal? Which ones are bad news for Arsenal?
Good news for Arsenal
Group 1: He stays with Arsenal and
a) repeats his brilliance of last season – obviously great – and if he does that on his current contract we have had no extra signing on fee. He might go at the end of the contract but being this brilliant three years running is unlikely – even Henry and Bergkamp had lesser years.
b) stays uninjured but can’t repeat that one season of glory – but assuming that just takes him back to his earlier seasons, then there’s still some good stuff to come from him.
Group 2: He leaves Arsenal for a lot of money (say £25m which is a lot for an injury prone 29 year old) and
b) stays uninjured but can’t repeat that one season of glory – this won’t be so good for the new club because they’ll also have to sort out how to get him into the team, and with him in modest form, but with the knowledge of where he was for one season, they won’t quite know what to do. Is he a number 9? Maybe, but then if he stops scoring, then what? A number 10, maybe, but if he has the taste for number 9, then what? A problem when you have just paid this much
c) gets injured a lot. Bad news for the new club – a waste of money, and a player in their 25 who isn’t doing the job.
Group 3: He leaves Arsenal for not so much cash (say £10m) and
b) stays uninjured but can’t repeat that one season of glory – still a problem for the new club because they will have met his wage demands. Money is pouring out for a player approaching 30, and whose best days are behind him.
c) gets injured a lot. OK they didn’t pay the transfer fee but they paid the cash for his salary and he’s demanding a five year contract.
Thus we had nine options and it turns out six are good for Arsenal. Let’s look at the three that are bad for Arsenal.
Bad for Arsenal
Group 1: He stays with Arsenal and gets injured a lot. We need backup – but fortunately we have just bought two good players. Much depends on the salary – if he is staying on a new contract this might not be such good news. On the current contract, well, we’ve had it before. So not so good, but still, not too bad. Besides we have injury insurance for long term injuries and Arsenal don’t do insane contracts, which is why RVP wants to leave.
Group 2: He leaves Arsenal and repeats his brilliance of last season for another club. A bit of a bugger, but it happens, and if we get £25 million and buy a much younger player along with the other two forwards we have, that’s not a bad deal. Besides, whoever buys him knows they aren’t going to get a third year of brilliance from him, but they will be tied to a long and highly wasteful contract, which leaves them paying him for 5 years. So we have done our bit to wreck the economy of one of our rivals. Good move.
Group 3: He leaves Arsenal for not so much cash and really turns it on for another club. Yup that will be very annoying emotionally, not least because we’ll have to listen to the AAA ram it down our throats, but even so, it will certainly only last one year.
Conclusion
When we look at it, not only are 6 of the 9 options good for us, but actually two of the three bad options turn out to be not that bad. The only really bad option is the very last one – to watch him do very well with another club. It will be sickening, I agree. But even then there’s a get out clause, because RVP is looking for a five year deal at mega salary levels, and even the ultimate master Bergkamp was not as good at 33 as he was at 30. So much as I would hate this final option I would think on to the rest of that contract, piling money into RVP’s bank account, but seeing a decline would be painful for anyone taking in the overall picture.
When we look at it all this way it is amazing that some people are still agonising over the issue. Of course Talk Sprot will be saying what a disaster-cockup-tragedy it is for Arsenal, and the AAA’s new house newspaper, the Guardian, is pumping out the deja vu stuff (being an intellectual paper they do foreign phrases, and probably even get the accents in the right place). In fact so good are Talk Sprot and the Guardian at this that they not only convinced the AAA blogs (not too hard) they also convinced Mr Usmanov, although I fear Mr U has realised that on this one he has made a bit of a prat of himself with his letter. He knows a thing or two about making the best of a situation, and even he must be squirming a bit now that people are thinking the matter through.
Getting RVP to make outrageous demands turns out to be a great move for Arsenal in 6 out of 9 scenarios, and a fairly decent situation in two of the remaining three. Even the one really glum-making outcome is not as bad as it appears on the surface, because at least it ties the buyer into a declining RVP for a number of years.
OK it is true that none of my options is that he goes and reproduces last season’s form for the next five years. That is not there because it is not possible. No one can deliver that sort of form at the end of his third decade for three years in a road. No one – not Henry, not Bergkamp, not Adams, not no one.
So, virtually every outcome is fine. Given a choice out of all nine, I think I now fancy the sale for £25m and using it to buy in another top forward in his early 20s. Of course most of all I would have liked him to sign again on a realistic salary, but that was never an option.
And come to think about it, this is what Mr Wenger undoubtedly knew too, has been plotting all along. 1-0 to the management I suspect.
———————————–
- Arsenal’s amazing new mid-field vision
- Ref Review: Fulham. Unacceptable Refereeing
- Liam Brady – celebrating the anniversary of his signing for Arsenal
- How do you replace a striker like Van Persie? (and apologies for the typo that originally occurred in this headline. I’m obviously having a bad few days in the editing lounge)
- Ref Review: Bolton Wanderers – a team with a positive away bias.
- How Arsenal changed football
- Continuing the search for the youngsters who will step up this season
- Southampton again cited for illegal gambling, but who on earth can investigate?
i know van persie will burn if he leaves the gunners. wenger will make sure he’s sorry
Van Persie, or any player, will never outclass nor outlast Arsenal The Club, The Fans and most of all Wenger, the strategist and shrewed personna that Wenger is. Wenger has turned Arsenal to what it is today with sheer brilliance and
strategic manoeuvres!!
Yeah, thanks for filling us in with (to quote Basil Fawlty) the Bleedin’ Obvious!
Was even one line of this necessary?
Now I think of it I think there are at the very least two Arsenal strategies that have not previously been written up
the Flamini Fallacy (see the earlier article on this)in which players believe they will be much better off elsewhere and then find they have made a dreadful mistake
The Van Persie Strategy
There may be others. I am going to the Chinese for some nosh and will contemplate… unless you have any further ideas. One early version of the Van Persie strategy was the sale of Henry to Barca where he cost them £2m a game. Wonderful ploy. I thought it a one off at the time and included it in the Flamini Fallacy but I think rightfully it was an early version of the Van Persie Strategy.
Shows that arrogant clubs like Barca etc never learn. Nor to players who think they are better than they are.
Bravo sir! take a bow son!
i’ve been thinking this all along. when Robin Your Per$ie said he disagreed with the clubs policy i think he was referring to the fact that arsenal usually only offer 1 year contract extensions to the over 30s, something that the club was not willing to change and something he wouldnt be willing to accept thanks to his injury record. thats the exact same reason that william gallas left, he held out for a 2 – 3 year contract which wasnt forthcoming. bravo to the board for not allowing themselves to be shafted by mercenaries.
Proud Goon
Keeping RVP even for 1 year will give us the edge we need to chalange for title, stability of not loosing starting 11 player and add to the squad. I have huge fate in Giroud and Podolski to bang lot of goals with the chance this team make, if RVP dont want to stay.
I think this might have been in the works for awhile, Tony. Arsene is, as we know, a very smart guy. I think several years ago he looked at the squad and knew we weren’t realistically going to challenge for the major trophies, but probably hoped we could pick up the FA or Carling Cup along the way to keep things positive.
But when we brought in Vermaelen, and then Kos the following year, he started to build a new side from the back forward. He knew he couldn’t publicly say he was doing that, and I believe he honestly thought Cesc (at least) would stay for a longer period. But the additions/changes to the side have accelerated over the last 2 years and we’re now on the cusp of a completely new side.
Yes, there are still stalwarts…Sagna, Song and Theo (who may or may not stay), but the likes of Jack, Ox and some other youngsters combining with Santos, Arteta, Per, Gervinho, Poldi and Giroud represents almost an entirely new squad from front to back.
Arsene did an interview when he reached 13 years as manager and one of the things he said was he always has to look forward, to anticipate the next hurdle. Prescient statement as I feel now, with all that has transpired the last couple years, he wasn’t just talking about anticipation from a match perspective, but actually looking forward and building his 4th team at Arsenal.
Arsenal FC has become Arsenal MF (mercenary’s factory). Most of our playar were a total disgrace. They just care about cash.
I am not too concerned about him going as a footballer but I am concerned about how it effects the squad and possible buys. It says stepping stones and an idea and culture becomes harder to shift the longer it is repeated.
Players and managers come and go by Arsenal Abides!
It is a huge change to read this website. I almost slit my wrists after reading Le Grove this morning.You really are at the other end of the spectrum!
Having said that the issue re RVP is whether the horse trading derails our preseason just like last year. No-one ever says the reason that Arsenal get raped by City is that they develop such great players but the downside is that RVP has not bought the story from Gazidis and Wenger about the future of the club. He wants trophies now and doesn’t believe Arsenal will deliver them. He is obviously personally fond of Wenger but at 29 the clock is ticking.
One amusing facet of this (if losing your best player is ever amusing)is that looking on NewsNow the various papers and websites have no idea where he wants to go-an article promoting the chances of Juve is followed by a pro-City one and then we hear he’s off to United. It shows how pathetic and frenetic the rumour mill is now.
But while your article makes some sense a sale on 31 August even for £25million would leave us no time to reinvest. It seems likely our team will hardly have played together before we take on Sunderland.It would be nice if the signings and the sales could be done very quickly.Sadly money is too important to Kroenke and we will extract every penny we can.
It’s not losing RvP as such that’s worrying me at the moment, I kinda agree with the article that the options aren’t awful in themselves, it’s the lack of Prem experience in that forward line. We’re left with Theo being our most experienced forward in this league, assuming he stays. I reckon the new guys are well suited to Arsenal and the Prem but it’s slightly worrying; Dempsey in for 10m would soothe my mind a fair bit.
Playing Devil’s Advocate,
If I were Sheikh Oiled Man$, I would be happy to poach a star player from one of my rivals not to strengthen my team but more to weaken my opposition. Even if this star player fails or if he is going to give an average return, I have no concern as I have enough players sitting in the bench who are begging for a chance.
If I were Mancini, I would not be bothered to answer my boss on why I insisted on buying this player for 25Mn, because for the boss 15Mn and 25mn are all one and the same. But I would dent my rival by this poaching so that rival club takes time to recover. It helps me to have a weakened opponent so I would be having one less problem during the campaign.
My club has history of buying Robinho, Adebayor, Santa Cruz all for astronomical money with average or no return. Today nobody cares about those failures.
Also calling it Arsenals statergy is a bit strong to say the least. Is it design or default?
i have to add that it would be a terrible outcome for RVP to get injured a lot, whoever he might be playing for 🙂
And just because a player decides to leave doesn’t mean he’s a mercenary. I’ve seen Robin play for Arsenal last season and I know that he cares about Arsenal.
I have to say I agree with Anne in the sense as a football fan I’d love to see RVP still playing regardless of who it’s for.
I disagree with her saying he’s not a mercenary, of course he is. It’s the most obvious thing in the world.
We had plenty of chances to offload him over the years while he was injured, he didn’t stay out of loyalty he stayed because no one really wanted to pay him that much to have in their team, a player who plays 10 games a season is not going to earn big money at a new club. He has one amazing season and suddenly his ambitions are bigger than Arsenal’s?
No, he doesn’t love the club, a player who loves the club would have done this quietly and said thanks for everything I want a new challenge. He spat in our faces and basically told us where we can stick our club.
Why? For trophies? Why weren’t trophies in his mind all those other extensions he signed from the treatment table? It’s because he wasn’t in demand basically at all, now he’s wanted by bigger clubs than Arsenal for way more money and he’s jumping ship.
I don’t blame him really, if I worked in McDonald’s and BurgerKing offered me twice the wage to do the exact same thing I would have no loyalty to big M at all. Sure I could say BUrgerKing made better burgers but is that my reason? No, money, money, money. Most of us would do the same in his situation and you know what, he left his hometown Dutch club for the reasons.
Gooners just need to understand Arsenal are no longer one of the big fish, and clubs can come and take any player they want from us and as soon as they become great players for us big clubs do take them. We took Arteta from Everton (albeit for a pay cut), Giroud etc. People shouldn’t be bitter because we have a team of mercenaries too because they all came to us for better money from smaller teams. Well Arsenal are no longer in the same league as the likes of city, united, chelsea, barca we simply haven’t been since the invincibles.
Anne, what about his or his agent’s statements which are out in public. If I love my club I would say what I feel to my manager when I have my negotiations. I would do it gracefully not like this, if I indeed love my club.
Also, I would have taken my agent to task for writing something like that in a so-called official website. That strongly worded statement has only one intention which is relieve me now and let my suitors do the talking.
This really is clutching at straws with the limited possible outcomes that you have. It’s not all win-win at all. What if we’ve spent the last 8 years being patient only to have him move on and spend the next four years reaching the levels we wanted him to eh? What if we sell him for £10-15 mil’ and he just gets better and better and stays injury free and wins the league four times and the champions league once for ManUre? Not only do we strengthen their grip on the prem’ and swell their bank account but we have to listen to the filthy Manc’s rubbing our noses in it. Doesn’t seem too rosey to me. This is highly unlikely but you can’t just sit there and figure out a formula with limited outcomes so it sounds ok you have to be realistic. It’s common knowledge that we won’t re-invest in another striker. Another thing, why do you want us to buy another young striker when we’ve got Afobe? If Walcott stays he could even be given a chance upfront. We’ve played him out of position for 6 years and then we have to listen to the haters having a go at him. Ox could take his place if moves up front.
Frm Alan Smith-Wright-Bergkamp-Anelka-Henry-Ade-RVP.
Have no fear fellow gooners….someone ALWAYS steps up!
Our most creative player missed the WHOLE season and Still finished above Spuds(their best ever season in prem):)
Podolski and Gervinho are gonna be awesome,keep the faith!
The penultimate para of the article more or less sums up a correct forecast of RVP’s destiny.
If the guy had never issued his statement, all would be well. But once the die had been cast, his future at the Emirates was sealed. No statue of him will grace the stadium, I fear. One season out of eight is not enough.
It’s a shame, legend to leg-end in one statement.
I was hoping he would look at Bergkamp and follow that example. Or remember that Arsenal shirt he wore when young. Or try to break the all-time scoring record.
I believe he will take a year to settle into any new side, so won’t do as well as this year. Injuries are an issue but he seems over them now and hasn’t played that many games over his career, so is a ‘Rosicky’ 27 year old. We’ll see.
Anne robin cares about Arsenal … your deluded??? if he did he wouldnt want to leave and join Utd which is exactly were he has he heart set on imo.
If he respected the fans and his reason was to win trophies then the only option would be Juventus.Him leaving for Utd is like your girlfriend leaving you for a best mate.
Hingsight is always a great thing but we are in this situation due to bad management. Contracts should be reviewed with 24 months left if players are performing they are offered new terms if they dont sign they are sold.
Humans are greedy by nature if you let a player have 12 months remaining and the power shifts to them .. The idea of seeing out there contract pops in and they are thinking of a big payday etc.
One other thing managment have f**k up and has cost the club millions of pounds is the joke of a wage structure.
There was one reason Ramsey choose us over Utd and that was we offer he double the wages he ws being offered at Old Tafford. We have the likes of Squallci of 60K a week and he is not fit for reserve level thats 3M a season down the drain.
Now that I think about it maybe I’m being to harsh on Robin maybe he is sick of the club not consistenly investing in quality players while wasting money on players like Squillaci, Djourou, Densilon being paid 60K a week while you dragged the team into the CL and are being paid 90K its disgraceful and very bad management
I feel like we shouldn’t bother ourselves worrying how vp might play for another club. It only matters how he performs if he’s staying with us (likely or not). I know this sounds stupid considering his potential and the implications an in-form vp could have on a teams title run. But I’m pretty sure arsene has a good idea of whether or not he’ll still be around and is planning for life without him. He could flop or he could have an even better season than last, but as long as we’re prepared and competing who cares, he’s not of our concern anymore. All that matters is that we can still give it our all and challenge, no player is irreplaceable, and frankly we’ve lost better. Ifs and buts can lead us anywhere. We just need to make sure we’re ready for whatever is thrown at us, as is the case every year. We need to prepare for playing against other teams, not just van persie, he’s not a one man team (contrary to what the media tried to convince us). If you step on a piece of shit, scrape it off on the sidewalk and move on
Agree with you Anne, I think he does genuinely care about arsenal, he would not be the first potential departee that could be said of. Maybe money comes into it, and maybe he thinks self sustainability cannot win out in the short to medium term, which will comprise the rest of his career. I guess I can sympathise just a little with the last point, when you look at what we are up against, the odds are against us. Because he loves the club, I am convinced he will do his best for us. With that in mind, I hope the club stick to wengers guns and hold him to his last year unless they get silly money ie 25-30. I also hope there is a firm deadline in place that is stuck to, no repeat of last year. We have to break out of this cycle of looking like other teams bitches once and for all. If vp goes, I cannot see us spending real top dollar on a striker, maybe a highly talented attacking mf and playing to share goals around.
One of the inevitable results from today’s obscene wages, signing on payments and loyalty (LOL) bonuses, received by professional footballers is that the love of money has become the be all and end all of their working lives. They may talk about silverware but the financial rewards are paramount.
One vital aspect seems to be forgotten. It is the upheaval of the family, especially the children, from one end of the country to the other OR from one country to another. New schools, new friends, possibly a new language.
In the case of the Van Persie family for instance, there have been reports that their home in London for the past eight years has been particularly happy and settled and one wonders whether this fact has ben overlooked somewhat, in the search for even greater riches.
Talk about always looking on the bright side, there’s a job ready and waiting for you in Arsenal’s propaganda department whenever you are ready. Although I suspect that you already get your ‘benefits’ from the club for always defending them regardless.
players doing it beyond 30 on a regular basis? Monsieur ZIZOU lool. best article regarding the RVP saga so far. players keep listening to their greedy agents and the lessons arent learn .
Can anyone tell me why some love dein so much, when his son agitates for our best players moves, including rvp , dein was involved in the failed attempt to keep cashley, dein took tens of millions from share profits without so much of a mention of putting anything back in via a rights issue, and we now have stan kronke in place, the antichrist of the aaa, bought to you courtesy of David dein.
I know dein has his merits and influences, but the myth seems to be surpassing the man in the eyes of many. If he is such a fan, he should take a bit of control of his son.
This was in 2004.
“David Dein has revealed the extreme lengths he is willing to go to keep today’s football agents on the straight and narrow.
He ensures they sign his documents on top of a bible.
Agents have to undertake not to do anything that is detrimental to the club or to the player’s career. Not to influence or try and unsettle the player to try and take him to another club.”
Interesting stroller. If he was able to do such things, Ivan would do well to replicate them. Unless agents have found new loopholes since then, I would imagine such things would be difficult to enforce. Dein jr seems to have dealings with vp, theo and song. I hope they are the last.
I have never seen such moronic responses from the Wenger,Arsenal haters. All you cretins believe you have the answer and know how RVP thinks, why he did what he is purported to have done and how things will work out for him, yet no one here has the foggiest about what his true feelings and plans are or what his future may hold.Here are some examples:
49 unbeaten claims that; ¨It’s common knowledge that we won’t re-invest in another striker. ¨ Where did you get this fetid fantasy from? Ahhh LeGrove you say…well they do know the future don’t they! Maybe its your knowledge (delusional)but its not common and totally irrational, fictional and spurious.
John, in usual miscreant certitude maintains that; ¨Hingsight is always a great thing but we are in this situation due to bad management.¨ I suggest that the only hindsight you have is the view you get when you take your head out of your ass to spew such AAA excrement on this website. He also goes on about our wage structure as if he actually knew what it was. But John NEVER let his ignorance interfere with his prejudice and in this case he is blowing hot air out the bung hole again!
You clowns can’t seem to get it through your neanderthal skulls that Wenger is so far ahead of you that he makes you look like amoebas when in terms of Football knowledge and skill. Why don’t you mental midgets return to LeGrove’s swamp where you can ejaculate your impotent opinions while salivating about how bad we’ll do this season!
John, I think if Arsenal had started negotiations with RVP for a long term contract to be signed 2 years ahead of his contract running out, that would probably have meant starting negotiations around January 2011.
This was before his finding form and after being injured from August to November 2010. He did not score his first goal in the 2010 season until mid January.
I am trying to imagine the outcry from the press and Arsenal fans if long term contract negotiations had been started with a non-scoring injury prone passenger.
Good articlr but yoiu’ve missed a couple of points. The problem is not that Van Persie wants to leave. The problem is the comments that player like him and Nasri keep making. You cannot have top players saying they are leaving because the clubs lacks ambition. That does two things devalues the player for peotential buyers. They know that they dont have to tempt the player to leave or tempt the club with big money offers.Hence Manu’s insane 10 million big and Juve’s insulting 8 mill bid.These clubs would never offer so little for the premier leagues top scorer if he hadn’t made or allowed his agent to make those comments. I think we need to stamp on thias hard. No accept for any offer under 20 mill and definently not in to a rival ( Man U , Man City). At offers this low we’d be better off keeping him for the season. I mean 10 million is what he wants to get paid per season. This would do a couple of things allow Giroud/ Podolski and whoever else we get to bond and bed into the team and send a clear message that we wont be bullied and our best player are not always up for grabs, and it would stamp on this ploy for players to force transfers at low prices. At 10 mill if RVP has an attitude about being forced to see out his contract or refuses an offer from Juve (a reasonable one!)to stay in UK then put him in the reserves. It still sends a message to clubs and players “We are not a fedder club!”.
What ever happens,if RVp starts scoring goals and helps his new team to win the epl/serie a it would have been worth the money paid. As for Arsenal if they can’t start winning games and trophies,I believe the fm has taken the gunners as far as he can. It’s time for change.
You see too much time has wasted with y project. Bendthner has been around for at least five years.So were Vela,Denilson,etc. During these five years,had Wenger sign a couple of experienced but not cheap and over the hill guys,the gunners could have ended up with maybe even a title or Fa cup.
I say enough time has bee given to the fm.If he can’t deliver,get someone else.Football is a simple game with the aim of putting the ball in the net asap. The fm has defined it as art and as aresult it is like painting with a brush ie passing non stop and don’t shoot until bingo is called. That’swhy the gunners are losing games they shd have won.
Oh, our dear idiot friend Wolfgang talked again 🙂
“What ever happens,if RVp starts scoring goals and helps his new team to win the epl/serie a it would have been worth the money paid.” – So, can you please buy him, or suggest your club to buy him (I mean the club that you REALLY support)? We really appreciate that.
“You see too much time has wasted with y project.” – That project produced some f*cking great football stars for this f*cking stupid world, including the one called Cesc Fab, and produced handsome profits for our Club (our, not yours), moron.
“Football is a simple game with the aim of putting the ball in the net asap.” – Hahaha, so why don’t you become a footballer and earn 100k+ per week, instead of sitting in your little cave and bark rubbish? Oh, try Fifa 12 or PES 12, ie. video games for 3 year-olds and olders, you will see how simple the game is. Idiot.
OK, I’m done with slapping idiots. It’s boring. So, back to business: I think there is nothing to worry about when players who approaching their 30s want to leave, no matter who they are. Just let them go and find some young replacements. The real problem is when some players at 24-25, the best footballing age, wanna leave, after developing at our expense. I can only see two solutions for that: a) offer them insane wages, which we DO NOT do; or b) find more local young stars, who live in London, have families in London and love the Club, to avoid another Cesc, which I believe AW and his staffs are trying to do. And that’s why we need the youth project more than ever. More Jack Wilsheres, please.
@Bongo 8:04 pm
Much of what you said seems reasonable, except that Arsenal have had one of the best teams in Europe for years.
Compare player to player vs Man Utd for example (since the Glazers started leeching them)
The reason Arsenal have not won the league at least twice in the last few years was due to referees.
That was something I suspected and the Ref Team on Untold proved.
The media wants to convince people Arsenal are not a ‘big club’. Its just propaganda.
Blatantly biased sycophantic writing. Firstly how can B be good for Arsenal but bad for a rival, especially as the money spent on him is irrelevant to Man City. Secondly who says he’ll only be good for one season ? That is a massive assumption for a player who bases his game on skill and intelligence rather than pace. Look at Drogba who won the Champions League at 34. Wolfgang is right, Damien is arrogance personified and his points are poorly thought out. The first point makes absolutely no sense, if Robin does secure his team the title that team will consider the investment worthwhile. The reason being that they have ambition which the Arsenal board lacks. The youth project makes the club money, great, and is that the purpose of a football club or are they supposed to be successful ? Cesc was purchased from the Barcelona youth system when he was already good enough for the Arsenal first team anyway. Good business yes and brave of Arsene to trust him so young but no credit to the Arsenal youth system. Regarding the final point you missed the point, he’s saying first and foremost you need a goalscorer and letting a rival have the best goalscorer at your club is not a good way to overtake them.
RVP was made by Arsenal. So if he leaves he will struggle. But Arsenal will continue to do well because of the way they play as a team. RVP was not the best player last season even though he had a very good season. If each player can improve his level of play just a little bit then the team as a whole will improve. I would rather have three players score 10 goals than one play score 30 because that is harder to defend. The other team never knows where the goals are going to come from. One player does not make a team and any team resting on one player will fail. So the whole is always more important than the parts!
i honestly think RVP wont be able to re-produce his form this year. he was going thru a very rich vein for about 85% of the season, saving us many times, but that is also partly due to the number of chances that arsenal produce and how he was the focal point. not taking away from his world class ability.
however, i think at teh end, he was playing up to the “red zone” and we saw him struggle a little bit at the end of the season at least to replicate his earlier form.
he then had the Euros and for an injury prone player, i would be concerned about this. i do not remember a single player (for arsenal anway) who played in a summer tournament such as World Cup or Euros, return and have a good season. in fact most of them have struggled with little niggling injuries and most likely fatigue.
therefore, if RVP wants to leave, i wud rather we sold him now than try to keep him for another year and paying his wages for what i expect wud be a less productive season.
I cant see how Robin will make season as previous one somewhere else. Stile of play and philosophy in City or United are closer to Dutch national team than Arsenal. And as someone mentioned it here, RvP wont have enough balls to poach them in any of those two, and for Juventus… I don’t care, for Juve he may score even 10 zillions goals, as long as we don’t meet in CL, who care. Till he find his place in his new squad he will have 31, and probably good only to pair with Drogba in China or Henry in USA.
So Sir Tony again made great conclusion, even people dont want to see it, we are in win-win situation. Actually we are only loosing captain, and I believe TV will be at least same good (if not better) as RvP.
hmmmnnn…..
I dont understand why do people think our youth project has failed????…We have Wilshere, Gibbs, Frimpong who are on the cusp of being regulars. Thats 3 players who’ve been at the academy since they were 9. Show me other top team that can boast of that. Cesc, Nasri, RVP, Eisfled, Ryo, Ox, Theo, Ramsey all bought as a part of project youth.
Why is the lack of trophies the main argument to deride ARSENAL FCs progress. Why isnt consistency of our performance given credit.
Take it this way, below 20/25M Arsenal doesn’t sell (rightly so), let him have another season – if he fails and doesn’t deliver he can write off any high-paid contract after leaving on a free anyway … once he’s left, let any club pay him 200K/week for 4/5 years, and I’ll be laughing my a** off for all the money they’ll burn/blow into the sky – well done Arsenal.
So, let him play one season and don’t sell below 25M, he’s good pefect, he’s no good he doesn’t get his desired deal anyway … so he better be good – LOL ….
@ARSENAL 13. What is success for a football club ? If it is trophies whatever has been done over the last 8 years has failed. If we are satisfied with paying off stadium debts then there’s been some success in that area and the sales of some players bought young and sold a few years later has helped that but the high wages to backup players hasn’t helped that. As I mentioned players like Nasri, Cesc, Theo, Ox, Ryo, Ramsey and Song are not products of the Arsenal youth system but products of the Arsenal scouting system and products of the relatively high wages for young players at Arsenal. Some were sold on at a profit but the downside of this is twofold. Firstly those that do not make it are very difficult to offload and secondly they aren’t keen to stay when they come to sign their second contract because the wage increase is small and they are no longer going to be paid highly for their age group. The Arsenal youth system is a smokescreen, the reality is poaching of young players and paying them higher wages than elsewhere.
On the other hand you’re much more likely to make a profit when selling on a young player than if you’ve bought a 26yo.
Domhuaille MacMathghamhna
July 24, 2012 at 12:57 am
well said that man!
i would like to ask some posters on here how they know what Arsenal players earn as Arsenal accounts are not on public display.
“squilachi on 60k” did u pull that figure out of thin air?
do fans call up players or their agents and get these details?
fans might have a view about their club and how its run but dont have a clue about how to actually run a football club.
amazing though most think they have all the answers and can do a better job then Wenger and the rest of the Arsenal management teams.
the fact that we are now the fourth most valuable football team in the world has been overlooked or derided by the AAA brigade, in most other business sectors the management would lauded for such an achievement and that management would be highly sought after.
FOOTBALL IS A BUSINESS NOW not a hobby.
Wenger is a genius.
I agree with all the above but I don’t think we need (or will buy anyway) another forward this summer, regardless of RVP situation.
Maybe if we manage to shift out Chamakh we’ll go for Niang (who is very young).
I think Cazorla is very possible unless his agent is trying to push him on the market. I think we’ll use the money we get from RVP on Cazorla and POSSIBLY M’vila.
Podolski, Giroud, Afobe are to me more than enough forwards for this season.
PS: Nicky B is moving to Turkey soon so I’m not counting on him too.
thing is though RvP was not worthy of any renegotiation of any contract until this summer. Up till then he just did not contribute enough compared to his wages. He has never been a key player for us until last year.
Why would you renegotiate a contract for a guy who is mostly injured and on a high salary two years before it goes out? if he had been injured last season everyone would be thrilled his contract was due soon. he would be labled another Diaby. and taht is a fact.
The only reason people care now is because hes nad one exceptional year out of 8.
1 good year. Statistically that is very poor. But he did us a great service last year. And getting20m for a injury prone 29 year old is good buisness.
His last decent act wold be to go to Juventus. THat would show he did care about the club. GOing to United just makes him another Nasri.
oh and dont forget Chamakh was very good when he came. Only after RvP got back did he start to struggle. He scored 10 goals before xmas the year he came. He saved us last time RvP was not available, he might just do the same again. The world does not end with RvP.
@ Charlie,
You need to look at the bigger picture, I’m afraid you are falling into the usual trap of the here and now…ONLY!
Firstly A Player could thrive at Arsenal under the playing system adopted as it suits their natural flair however at other teams who have a different approach, they simpply wouldn’t fit in (Remeber Flamini). If you compare Arsenal and Stoke, none of the players from either team would fit into the other yet many are considered top players by their clubs.
Second of all, success is many things as is failiure. Considering how much money they have spent in the last few years, Liverpool are deemed a failiure in my eyes. They have achieve absolutely nothing. We may not have had success on the pitch but atleast we have built a new stadium which will soon start paying off once the loan is cleared and better sponsor deals can be arranged.
Thirdly, with regard to the youth system, the academy realistically can only just be expected to start showing signs of success. We havn’t had it long. You mention the several players as being products of our scouting system which I agree with however they were also part trained in the academy so are really both. There are several stages to the academy system, you have 1st year, 2nd year, 3rd year, 4th year… academy students who will all be at different stages in their development, if you discovered a talent who would be on par with a 4th year talent, why shouldn’t you add them if you can? If not, you have much empty capacity and waste.
To say the last however many years has been a failiure for the academy is not right when it should only just be starting to show signs of success. Let’s wait to see the results shall we.
@ Tony – Whilst I can’t say I exactly agree with your groups 1-3 hypotheses , I do agree that overall Arsenal are in a win-win situation right now. RVP can stay and play or leave and Arsenal will get paid! He can stay and prove that he can do another full season at the top of his game and is worth the big bucks or let’s see how the slient auction plays out.
I am not worried that Arsenal can’t compete and I love my club. In AW I trust.
Clay,
RVP had his best year and did well for us but people shouldn’t make him out as giid as they are. He only scored 1 in 4 chances last season, quite poor for a striker. Imaginw howmany other games we would have won if he had converted 1 in 2.
@ Charlie…
If trophies are the only thing you support a football club for……..
Like it or not youth system has achieved its goals. There are 3-5 players from the academy waiting in the ranks to break into the first team. Thats half of the team. English junior teams are filled with Arsenal youngsters.
@ Arsenal 13
&
@ Dom M – very good posts.
@ Charlie – I too would like to ask a few questions myself.
1)Why do you support Arsenal FC & for how long?
2)Is there anything you like about the club at the moment?
3)Does the Untold Arsenal site make you angry or frustrated?
@Charlie
You can’t always get what you want.
Rightly or wrongly (and I would suggest rightly), we committed to a long term strategy that included building a new stadium. Very few clubs could have built the stadium and remained competitive (defined as top 4 finish). And, maybe only those with unlimited funds could have done so and won the league at the same time. I think the reformation of our training system and a good scouting system has helped us survive. So, have we won any trophies lately? No, but then again that was always going to be difficult whether we built a stadium or not.
As for RvP leaving, personally we have handled way better this time around. Further, I can’t get upset if a player decides with a year left that they aren’t going to sign an extension. Fine, we’ll play you for the last year and let you leave on a Bosman. Either you will play well or you won’t but that is always the case. As for keeping unsettled players, in their last year (or any year of their contracts), I would backload contracts and use incentives to help motivate them. If RvP doesn’t want to play next year, suspend him. If he plays shite, he won’t be helping his marketability next Spring and he could end up playing for the reserves.
Glad to have encouraged some healthy debate. To those who accuse me of not being a true supporter I say to you how can you truly support anything if you have no opinion of your own. It is inconceivable to me that someone could agree wholeheartedly with every decision made by their favourite club and the longer you support them the less likely it is that you will agree with everything. In my opinion Arsene is the best manager that Arsenal has ever had, I don’t just say that because he is the manager and he must be respected. In this case it was a question of whether project youth worked and what project youth actually was. The credit needs to go to Arsene and his scouting team rather than the youth team coaches because few players were truly home-grown. It was a partial success in that the club did well considering money spent but not a genuine success because no trophies were won. Saying “I don’t think the team has been successful” is very different to saying I support them less because they haven’t been successful. It confuses me when people say “if you want to support a team that win trophies go support Man Utd”. Surely it is the man who wants Arsenal to come second to ManUre who should be supporting ManUre.
@GoingGoingGooner very good points and I agree.
Rumour is that Juve are willing to offer more than 20m. I say better to sell abroad for 10m less than allow him to play for a rival next season. If the gap is more than 10m it’s worth considering. If RvP wants to stay in England give him an ultimatum, if you really want trophies go to Juve the Italian champions and if you don’t like that you can spend this year at Arsenal on the same wages and take your chances of a big deal next summer. Meanwhile everyone will know that are leaving for the money and you may not be quite such a hot prospect next year.
@ Charlie – what do you consider to be unhealthy debate on this site?
What is you definition of youth development?
I am glad you acknowledge the phenomenal achievement of Arsene Wenger, but it’s odd that you don’t you think the youth coaches who work with the young players on a daily basis should be given no credit at all.
Explain again how unsuccessful Arsenal have been again?
@ Charlie – I wonder if you consider ignoring posters, whose questions you can’t answer conducive to healthy debate on this site.
Some might even consider it a wimpish character trait.
Convenient isn’t it Goona Gal, there are a few posters who come and go every so often on Untold who only read what they want to read.
Charlie, why not sell RVP to Man U? He had a great season just gone (1 in 8?) but can you honestly see him doing the same again next season or after that?
@ Stuart – I’ve noted that Charlie has a pop, is challenged and then runs off. He also wades in and supports the more questionable posters but is unable to defend competently theirs or his views. We don’t have to agree on aspects, but I don’t like overly negative and shiftyness.