Roll up (part two): When it Higuains it pours
Warning: this post might contain superfluous grammatical devices
So the Ems Cup day two and not a very happy ending to a bright and promising afternoon. The twins and started well, burgers and drinks in the Coronet. I had to explain that it used to be a cinema (what just ONE screen?) and that the replica projector was not some kind of machine gun. There were also a lot of rather fat Wilsheres and Walcotts on view. But I digress.
Porto surprised everyone (well everyone who had watched them yesterday) by trouncing Higuain’s Napoli 3-1. They looked lively throughout, especially their right winger, cutting through the Napoli defence at will. By contrast the Italians, who were brighter in the first half when they took the lead, were fairly leaden.
As for senor Higuain who everyone seems to think we should have bought (and Tony almost said we had) I thought yesterday he was ordinary but today, well he took ordinary to a new level. But more ‘extra ordinary’ than extraordinary. Early days and he’ll probably score a hatful in Seria A but this weekend looks like M. Wenger did well to pull out when Real Madrid sneaked a few extra £1000s on the price.
The atmosphere was better today – we were in the lower east tier and there were loads of Gala fans in, and they were noisy. And a bit rude to Theo as he took a corner. Funny when he scored then as it was just after they’d been such poor guests. Ha, told you Gala.
Unfortunately despite a promising first half display and Theo’s goal I felt our performance overall looked tired; we were, in the end, muscled out of it by Drogba. Yes, he is a cheat, yes, he dived, yes, we should have had at least one penalty and the referee almost missed the most obvious handball you’ll ever see he was that bad. But…
I was given a piece of paper as I left by an elderly bespectacled gentleman in a black gown and mortarboard. “Pass this on to that Mr. Attwood chappie please if you will, I’m sending my other copy to that Chips fellow upstairs”. So here it is, no word of a lie…
Dear parent/carer (delete as appropriate)
End of summer report card for young Arsene
Arithmetic – excellent: Arsene excels at sums and looks like he has even managed to make Gervinho equal £6m when in May it seemed unlikely he would amount to more than a handful of beans. Now is time to distribute some of these sums more widely (see below)
History – again excellent. The traditions of the club are safe in young Arsene’s hands. I have some concerns about the near future however.
English – there is a strong development in this area when once this appeared to be a weakness. Good use of grammar, punctuation, Ox, Walcott, Wilshere and Corporal Jenks. Oh and the Welsh chap, sort of English.
These are all pluses, along with a good understanding of Spanish (the little Santi fella and the man-with-perfect-hair), the French core is good (although I remain to be convinced by the handsome chap who trundles about up front); the Teutonic influence is pleasing and Arsene has been making progress with various other languages.
However, I think it is fair to say that when Arsene is on top form he is very good, one of the most inventive boys in the class and a credit to you. But unfortunately we do not always see the best, and his ‘second string’ (so to speak) can be more miss than hit.
In short…he could do better and I would urge you to encourage the boy to focus on his weaknesses and spend his resources here, quickly and sensibly.
Yours faithfully,
Head Teacher
So there you have it, pretty much my summary of where we are. The Ems was great for the families and fans that went, great for the club, good for football really. Congratulations to Galatasaray, they deserved the win today and the cup. Good for Arsene too I hope because it shows us and him where the holes are. He just needs to plug ‘em.
Please sir, can we have some more?
@blacksheep63
Recent posts
- You’ve only come to see Eboue! (Now for Day 2)
- Arsène Wenger and the moral dilemma over Suárez – A Rebuttal
- The two Arsenal teams for the Emirates Cup (BT makes EPSN looks good)
- Arsène Wenger and the moral dilemma over Suárez
The books…
- Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football – Arsenal’s early years
- Making the Arsenal – how the modern Arsenal was born in 1910
- The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal FC: crowd behaviour at the early matches
The sites from the same team…
- Referee Decisions – just what are the refs up to this season?
- The Arsenal History Blog from the AISA Arsenal History Society
What?! You think you know how to run this club better than Lord Wenger?! Shame on you! AAA!
“It’s good to be lucky once in a while” must have said Steve Bould to Wenger after Theo scored. Unfortunately it was all the more true thanks to Drogba’s antics. And these have shifted the focus from the real purpose of the tournament. No doubt there are weaknesses, and we should be glad they came out, so that the coaching staff have a job in their hands in the next few weeks. Not only the season is long, it hasn’t even started yet:)
And no one mentioned how many players were switched in defence after the Beautiful dive by Drogba! that should teach the Ox of what to do in the penalty area drag your leg properly. Oh the premier leaguer ref was a major dick who is learning the anti Arsenal code already… poodits on BallsTit sport oh no words to describe…
@ blacksheep 63 – A+ from for the good effort !
Yea, Arsenal have now learnt that skill alone does not cut it, what these pundits call “experience” is needed too. They should watch the replay of Drogba creating a penalty carefully to learn how to do it when needed. Of course it is a risk Drogba took. Another ref may have given him a yellow.
But this is part of football and is called “experience”.
The dream begins with a teacher who believes in you, who tugs and pushes and leads you to the next plateau, sometimes poking you with a sharp stick called ‘truth’.
Dan Rather
People often say that motivation doesn’t last neither does bathing. That’s why we recommend it daily.
– Zig Ziglar
I realize that humor isn’t for everyone. It’s only for people who want to have fun, enjoy life, and feel alive.
– Anne Wilson Schaef
You’ve heard your profession slammed by someone who would never dream of doing your job.
http://shutupimtalking.com/i-need-smart-friends/
Once more Arsenal fans and by extension Wenger fanatics failed to do anything to tell the board of our displeasure concerning current debacle in the transfer market. Yes they know what is needed but would rather keep quiet because Wenger and the board are a God! The weakness was there for all to see, Wenger is toying around by trying to train Sagna to be a centre half incase one either Kozer or Mert get injured and we know that combination won’t work especially in the premiership! The squard lack a natural winger and equally lacks a spine at the middle. Fabiasky and Szenzny don’t seems to inspiring confidence when they are in goal but genius wenger think otherwise. Even tho this was a friendly where the entire squad can be substituted, to me its a dress rehearsal of what we expect when the season begins. I have not seen atleast 2 or three players who can either individually or collectively change the course of a match either by starting or off the bench! I beg to stop and am ready for a backlash but i have to admit that the old dog WENGER AND THE ARSENAL BOARD STILL HASN’T LEARN ANY NEW TRICKS!
Things i enjoyed from the Emirates Cup. Our fans booing Higuain? The Mexican wave? Our fans booing at half-time aginst Napoli and at full time against Gala. No wonder our manager & board are cretins when we have fans to match.
Our players looked tired in the second half. I expected Galatasaray to tire and us to keep up the level or even raise it as we usually do, but yesterday it didn’t happen. I put it down to the exertions of the Far East tour. Fortunately we have more recovery time before the season starts. As Arsene Wenger pointed out in his post match press conference ( well worth listening to) Per Mertesacker played two ninety minutes in two days and was therefore knackered by the end.
There is almost a month until the end of the transfer window. As Arsene Wenger said to another interviewer on another occasion, Arsenal is pursuing targetS. And very little of note has happened anywhere so far in this transfer window. And as he said to yet another interviewer, when you are buying a house you do not kick the previous owner out on the same day. Negotiations take time.
As Arsene Wenger has also pointed out, Sanogo is a striker and we have bought him. He did pretty well yesterday seeing he just came back from his holidays three or four days before. Just because he did not cost 50 million does not mean he is not good.
The influence of the useless ref on yesterday’s match cannot simply be written off. Such a performance from a ‘top’ referee is out of order. Even in a friendly.
It was nice to go to a match where there was a friendly atmosphere and where you can sit next to the opposition fans and have a decent conversation and, while inwardly gnashing the teeth, applaud their team at the end. The Arsenal fans were OK where I was sitting as well.
Matt – interesting how you dismiss other people’s actions as “cretinous” when they do not reflect your own.
I would imagine most people boo because they’re frustrated, they don’t have this site and poster’s limitless ability to look at averageness and see top quality.
They’re not cretins, just take a very different world view to you.
blacksheep63,
A fair description of the day. The fans around me were positive and enthusiastic during the match. They were downcast after we went behind, as I would expect any NORMAL fan to be but I did not hear a single bad word about the team or the manager.
It’s a bit funny that when the team was doing well and pulling out good results, the merchants of gloom were telling us it’s no big deal because it’s only pre-season. Man United lost twice and drew one in Asia while we won all our against fairly similar oppositions. But we were told it’s no biggie because it’s only pre-season. Losing to Galatasaray hurts but IT IS ONLY PRE-SEASON.
Excellent point on Higuain. It is not in many of our fans to appreciate what we have but Giroud is head and shoulder above that guy. He did no better for Napoli than Sanogo did for us. But of course Sanogo is utter crap; he didn’t cost £34 million.
Matt and Giddy maybe it’s the fact that the vast majority of Arsenal fans don’t have your need for self gratification.
I know what kind fans I like being around
@Gonnerjoe
Continue playing Mr. Nice guy. The season is soon starting, we will see what being Mr. Nice will do to you.. hope u don’t disappear.
Another day, another day wasted. More evidence that Wenger is mugging the real fans off. It’s always him first, club second, fans nowhere. Sheer contempt and arrogance, the man is an utter disgrace, he has turned Arsenal into a laughing stock.
Wenger is a BS-ter. He will just play with words. He will say anything to avoid spending money. He will try to convince everyone that midnight is noon if it that will help him not to spend. He¿s so caught up in his doings, he doesn¿t even realize that it¿s already gone too far and very soon he will only be BS-ting himself. At the end of last season you would have thought that that was a final and great opportunity for the people who run the club to sense the dangers and put their acts together. But no, here we are! About two weeks to the start of the new season and not one new player of note have been acquired. While reading the latest comments from Mr. Wenger, it is clearer than ever that he has lost all his footballing insights and ambitions. He has tilted completely towards the economics side. Someone explain this to me¿. How can a proper football manager (coach) at this level not see that this current Arsenal squad is not title challenging material, let alone winning? Couldn¿t even win their own illusion trophy. The fans couldn¿t leave the Emirates fast enough yesterday. If one wants an up to date reference point to judge the team¿s progress, its yesterday¿s game. Drogba can still easily bully and torment them just the same way he used to. In fact, it looked even easier than before. I¿m perplexed as to how anyone who knows the slightest thing about football can be convinced that this team can win the league title? Seriously!
joe
I’m perplexed you think you know more than a man who has actually won a league title. AW has never failed to make signings in the summer window and there’s no reason to think he won’t this summer.
Stevie E – Sonogo & Ginter (if confirmed) for a combined £6m when you have enough to bid £40m + £1 will not constitute a great summer.
Especially when we need a keeper, CB, striker and CM for depth of squad. A lot of people (not on this site) saw this as the year we could finally compete after 8 years of austerity and selling our best players.
Unfortunately, things seem to be coming to a head this season. Patience is waning and fans who defended the manager to the hilt are seriously concerned. Concerned because the big talk of big signings that Wenger and Gazidis were so quick to tell anyone who’d listen look increasingly hollow as each day passes without any signings.
Of course there is still time to strengthen the squad, but there has also been weeks in which we could’ve added to the squad. I really don’t think Wenger can go that extra pound and sign players who will no doubt be viewed as over priced by the manager.
While I don’t agree with giddy or joe, I am getting more and more worried that come Sept 2nd, our squad won’t look much different to how it does now.
Waiting until after the CL qualifiers is a dangerous game and one that AW, perversely seems to enjoy! I am dreading the reaction of the fans at the first game we lose. Last season was horrible at times, so god only knows what it’ll be like this time round.
I have defended the manager for years and feel he deserves the respect of Gooners, but that in no way should prevent criticism, especially after the fanfare regarding our new found wealth. We may have more disposable funds, but that matters little if you continue to act in such a parsimonious way.
Sid,
I read the article just like you and nowhere did I see the author defending AW. There are references to the need to strengthen actually.
Now, the commenters calling for the head of the manager are a different matter. That some of us call them out does not mean that we think he is beyond criticism. We only ask that criticisms be measured and contextual.
I don’t think that is too much to ask.
sid,
why do you think ‘Wenger perversely enjoys the waiting game”?
Don’t you listen to the man when he is saying? Negotiations are ongoing with multiple targets. But the only teams that want to play the waiting games are the selling teams. Like RM did with Higuain (who I still think would have been great for once once adapted) by waiting and waiting and waiting till Naples sold Cavani had lots of money and then upped the price with 50%. Do you think Wenger enjoyed that? RM enjoyed it.
The same with Liverpool and Suarez. We bid almost 2,5 times as we have ever bid before. But who is playing the waiting game? Yes, Liverpool. Not Arsenal. If that bid was made and we can assume it was made, then this shows the intent to get a deal done as quickly as possible.
“As Arsene Wenger said to another interviewer on another occasion, Arsenal is pursuing targetS. And very little of note has happened anywhere so far in this transfer window. And as he said to yet another interviewer, when you are buying a house you do not kick the previous owner out on the same day. Negotiations take time.
As Arsene Wenger has also pointed out, Sanogo is a striker and we have bought him. He did pretty well yesterday seeing he just came back from his holidays three or four days before. Just because he did not cost 50 million does not mean he is not good.”
a few things about this,
1- Regarding little activity in the transfer market, well I think he’s wrong, quite a lot has been happening with teams and players coming and going throughout the PL and around Europe. Also I’m not sure he said “of note” in that quote.
2- Regarding it taking time..this refers back to point 1, several and many teams have gotten a lot of business done already. Yes I appreciate these things are complicated and complex, but other teams seem consistently able to do things quicker than us, and also, we have proven we can wrap up multiple deals very quickly too (multiple signings on deadline day). Yes it is complicated, but generally transfer business can be done and done quicker if intent is there (and intent often surrounds willingness to pay valuations as we often demand, when we sell), especially when there are people amongst all parties working for years in the business and know how to get these deals done.
3- People do not question Sanogo based purely on his price or lack of it really. Rather he is 20, has a concerning injury history (in a team that has suffered a lot of injuries in recent years), has never even featured in the top league in France, and has limited experience in League 2. When all that is juxtaposed with resources the club does have (as confirmed by the club itself), supposed desire to want to compete now in the present for titles, the high failure rate of our youngsters in recent years, then yes why wouldn’t people question this signing especially if it turns out to be our only signing?
It’s not that anyone hates Sanogo, or wants him to fail, or is only judging him because he lacks a 50 or 100 M price tag or whatever hyperbolic nonsense that was (as though better more prepared options couldn’t be sought for much much less than that).
Given our needs, or resources, our trends in recent years, our aims/ambitions, and his (Sanogo’s) profile as detailed above, then it’s an obviously questionable signing. Maybe he’ll turn out to be the next coming of Henry, maybe he’ll be the next coming of Wreh.
Wenger has been wrong many many times before (on players), so I’m not sure why people act as though his moves can’t be questioned, discussed or thought about, yes even by us lowly fans.
“Don’t you listen to the man when he is saying? Negotiations are ongoing with multiple targets. But the only teams that want to play the waiting games are the selling teams. Like RM did with Higuain (who I still think would have been great for once once adapted) by waiting and waiting and waiting till Naples sold Cavani had lots of money and then upped the price with 50%. Do you think Wenger enjoyed that? RM enjoyed it. ”
Walter since you used the word “think” here, and since a lot of this is guesswork as none of us know exactly the details of what went down with Higuain…
Is it not also possible too, that we could have secured Higuain a lot earlier before his price rose? I mean we were linked to him long before Cavani was sold, his family (dad/brother) were reportedly even saying terms had been agreed, reports were saying the dispute over concluding the deal with over a couple million, something like we wanted to only pay 22 and they wanted around 25 at the time. And we stalled and waited (pretty sure there was an article on this site too about the positive tactic of waiting [presumably to save a few] a bit as it was almost a done deal), by which Cavani was sold, and Napoli became flush with cash and needed a replacement and Madrid could now demand more.
Heck as I always mentioned over the months with the Higuain links, maybe we never even really wanted him that much in the first place, who really knows?
Again, I don’t know if either scenario (or even more) is absolutely true, nor do you I would guess… but do you at least “think” that that alternative scenario is possible/plausible/happened? Or were the ONLY teams playing the waiting games them and not us?
When the price is £55M a bid of £40M is not made to get business done early.
Wenger likes to do things his way and does enjoy proving people wrong bue more often than not lately he ends up proving them right.
If it’s true that it is possible to have a debate about Wenger on this site without some saying he should be sacked and other saying he has never made a mistake.
Lets discuss what is going on then.
Doofus
The summer isn’t over yet.
“Excellent point on Higuain. It is not in many of our fans to appreciate what we have but Giroud is head and shoulder above that guy. He did no better for Napoli than Sanogo did for us. But of course Sanogo is utter crap; he didn’t cost £34 million.”
Bootoomee, ok let’s discount Higuain being one of the most efficient strikers in Europe over the last 5 seasons, one of the highest scoring strikers, with a conversion ratio only behind Messi. A striker that never had a team built around him or even complete support from his club directors, had much fewer starts/90minute games (as detailed on this very site when bigging him up) than many of the hot names yet his numbers compare to all, a striker that has the best international numbers in all of S. America (Comnebol) currently, the only player to score a hat trick at the last world cup..A striker that is completely 2 footed, and can play across the front line and score in practically anyway..etc etc on and on, only at 25 years old.
Yes people are silly to think he may be better than Sanogo, or that Sanogo is notas good as an option ONLY because he didn’t cost 34M. Geez, you guys should really listen to your self sometimes.
And I guess if people think Giroud is actually not head and shoulders above Higuain or above him in anyway, they must be silly too, or as you put it not “appreciate what they have”..
I recognize the cheek in your comments about the Emirates cup, given Higuain didn’t do much nor did Sanogo, but let’s be real here, the site has been bigging up Giroud no end based on his pre-season exploits in recent weeks and just like the supposed AAA do, the supposed AKB also uses pre-season in the context to justify whatever they want to promote..so it pre-season games and performances can be dismissed and/or elevated as seen fit to fit a narrative. Both sides are exactly the same in their use of it.
Also back to Higuain, I would be very curious to see your comments on the articles some weeks ago that were bigging up Higuain in here, when we were thought to be close to signing him.
“When the price is £55M a bid of £40M is not made to get business done early.”
Matt, this is a very fair point, and mirrors something that I posted above, things can be done more quickly when intent in there, and intent often revolved on willingness to meet the valuations of selling clubs just like we insist on when we sell. The problem (if one thiks it’s a problem) imo lies in Wenger having too much influence in the valuation of players. Wenger is regularly commended for “good business” when he sells a player for big money, and often for more than what people think said player could fetch.
Anyway yes, if you are 15M (reportedly) apart on a price, then yes there is little INTENT to do business quickly, especially amongst league ‘rivals’ at that.
So if Suarez is the backup option for not signing for Higuain (would have been worth the £35m in my opinion), who’s Wenger going to go for if Liverpool insist he’s not for sale after BR is constantly driving the price up; Rooney, Michu or was it always Sanogo??!!
I still find it amazing that people have an issue with fans questioning the Sanogo signing (epecially if he turns out to be our only/main signing)…
Even a signing like Neymar (just for example) came with lots of legitimate questions: can he compete physically in Europe; can he play not being the only star; can he handle the pressue and expectations; will he fit into the system; is he overhyped and as good as people think; etc etc.
And that’s for a team that has won almost everything before it for years.
Yet it in a team that hasn’t won anything in some time and yet publicly says it has resources to compete now,somehow it’s wrong to question the signing of a 20 year old, injury riddled player with a handful of games in League 2 French football?
Questioning something doesn’t make one less of a true fan.
You guys talking about an additional £15m for Suarez and £12m for Higuian seem to have totally lost your grasp on reality. This is £15MILLION in addition to £150k/week wages + bonuses etc. Assuming a 4 year contract is signed, £150k/week is £7.8m/annum so £31.2m over the term of the contract. You want us just to spend an addition 2 years salary because YOU want business done early. Also, adding £31.2m to £55m gives you £86.2m, which is £16.2m above our much publicised “war chest”. I guess haggling over that £15m makes a bit more sense when you actually think about it.
good point Stevie E, headline transfer fees conceal more than they reveal.
I wrote the piece not because I’m either AAA or slavishly pro Wenger. I’ve been consistently calling for Arsenal to buy some quality (note ‘buy quality’ not spend millions for the sake of it) for the past few seasons. It is possible to be a supporter of the club and be a critic. What I find hard to understand are ‘fans’ who suggest that all AW wants is to make money or make us unhappy, those that say he is ruining the club, or on an ego trip. He clearly isn’t and it is (to my logical mind) quite illogical to think otherwise.
Steve E – are you for real? How stupid is your maths? So you’re saying we pay 4 years wages up front from the transfer budget? Not, like, pay the wages annually? Can you really be that idiot just to make a point?
blacksheep63
But he has bought quality, you can’t deny that Monreal, Cazorla and Podolski (all bought amongst others last year) are not quality signings. The year before, Arteta and Mertesacker, both top quality players as well as Oxlade-Chamberlain & Jenkinson as stars of the future already playing a role.
My problem is many fans forget very quickly what players have been bought very quickly. I don’t necessarily blame them to be honest, society as a whole is now all about instant gratification and the need for something new. You only have to look at how “celebs” are built up to megastar status extremely quickly then forgotten as soon as there is someone new on the scene, usually labelled as “The Next (enter last big time here)”.
I agree that we could do with so more players, probably a defender and striker, however I wouldn’t presume to think I know more than a man with a full scouting network and in-depth player analysis unlike some armchair experts (usually the same experts who say AW is ruining the club etc.) I also won’t throw my toys out of the pram because we haven’t signed anybody as the window isn’t closed yet. I’m made the point before that AW has never not signed anyone during the summer transfer window, I can’t see this widow closing without further additions being made. And they will probably be guys completely off the media’s radar.
It’s telling that lots of players are talking about new signing, I don’t recall that ever happening before. What they are allowed to say to the media will be strictly governed by the club so it’s very interesting that they are either allowed, or have been primed to, talk about this so much.
Hi Doofus
Thanks for the insults.
I work with contracts every day so have a pretty good understanding of how they work thanks, and also understand wages aren’t paid up front, you know, what with having experience of being paid for having a job.
You’re making an assumption that the publicised transfer kitty DOESN’T include wages, how do you know that this supposed £70m is just the transfer fee budget? Does it include any signing on fee or agents fee or is that assigned from a separate budget? How about loyalty bonuses or performance bonuses or win bonuses? What makes you think that a club so financially astute as Arsenal wouldn’t take all these things into account?
There’s no need to call people stupid or an idiot, I guarantee you wouldn’t say it to my face, so please don’t do in the virtual world, it’s just rude.
@ Stevie E
No I agree he has bought quality and even the rush buys (Arteta and the BFG) are quality. I would just agree that we need extra bodies and quality ones if we are to push on this season. In previous seasons we’ve been hamstrung by financial constraints. Ivan Gazidis assured us that this is no longer the case.
nice riposte to doofus 🙂
Stevie E – I wasn’t the one berating a fellow poster was i? You were and you were wrong. You either did it deliberately, or you don’t understand. And now you ask what goes into a transfer budget!
You were the one TELLING another poster how wrong he was, without it seems any facts to support yourself. That in my book is idiotic. Sorry, but it is.
And I would say it to your face if you deserved it.
On the Internet, everybody is a tiger. ROOOAAAARRRR 🙂
Doofus
I’m not sure that I was berating another poster..? I was just stating that throwing an extra £15m around without taking into account the total cost of the transfer isn’t realistic. I certainly wasn’t angry when I said that, or did I use any insulting language to get my point across.
What I don’t understand is why it is be so hard for you to believe that Arsenal wouldn’t do what every other business does when negotiating long term contracts? Or how you know that this supposed £70m is purely for the transfer fee? If you can answer that without resorting to insults or meaningless statements of how I’m wrong, I’ll happily have a chat with you about it and maybe we can both learn something.
With regards to calling me an idiot or stupid to my face, if you think you can do that to someone because they don’t agree with you how a football clubs transfer budget is allocated, you must have led a very sheltered life.
blacksheep63
Ivan is the kind of guy I would love to play poker against…
Bootoomee
LOL 🙂
http://www.rottenecards.com/card/30378/youre-offended-you-say-how
God has yet to answer me this FAQ !
http://www.rottenecards.com/card/115/dear-god-why-did-you-put-so-m
Nice write up on the occasion, however I was very disappointed with the result. Against Napoli we had more than enough chances to win the match and should have done so.
Similarly we had chances in the first half to put Galatasaray away, long before the supreme diver arrived on the scene. The Dog’s second goal was class, but his dive was shameful – and should have resulted in a yellow, possibly his second yellow.
What was worrying was the way we lost control of the game in the second half. While Galatasaray were very physical and the ref let them away with a lot, we will have to cope with similar tactics in the league. In midfield we look short of stopping power (for want of a better term) esp when not playing the Ramsey/Arteta combo. Up front we are not clinical enough. Two additional class players would make a big difference to our title prospects.
Stevie, you are confusing two separate concepts: the transfer budget that is used to pay other clubs and agents on the value of the player. But between the clubs and usually the fees you hear in the media.
Then you have separate contracts with the player, negotiating a renumeration package with the individual player. It gives an amount, a headline figure, say £20m over 5 years. That is paid annually to the individual players. So cost in yr1 of contract = £4m, year2 =£4m, and so on. This is what is euphemistically called the “wage bill” but is in fact the payroll like any other business. Also includes all non-playing staff; managers, kit men, masseurs, etc., etc.
They are from different budgets as they are both purchasing different types of asset, the transfer budget acquires the player and I would imagine is accounted for marked to market, which means the economic asset held is listed at market price. So gervinhos for e.g. was acquired at 12m, played like shite, sold for 7m so would have booked a net loss of 5m on the player asset line in P&L, although would have been written down over two years and would count against corp tax liability.
Payroll is paid through cash flows or residual bank holdings, so is a straight cost of doing business.
So separate places in P&L and separate budgets.
Whether the media is conversant is another matter.
See! That’s better, two grown ups having a chat about football!
I do understand that, but my point is the we don’t know for sure how this £70m figure bandied about by the media (and now taken as gospel) has been allocated to which budget within Arsenal. It could be all £70m is for transfers, or £50m for transfers and £20m for wages. Arguing that its defiantly not isn’t valid because, unless you’re inside the club and part of the negotiating team, nobody really knows for sure.
My original point is people are happy to say AW should just pay the extra £12-£15m for a player without taking into account all the other costs that are associated with the purchase. It’s easy to sit on the outside and make these statements, but they bear no relation to reality, hence my comment that some people have lost their grasp on reality. There seems to be such desperation for AW to sign someone, ANYONE, that common sense has taken a back seat and absurd statements about the club lacking intent or ambition by not throwing away extremely hard earned money are becoming the norm. And all this with still a month to go in the transfer window.
Stevie – Wenger needs a marquee signing. Badly. There’s a huge amount of disgruntled fans. Angry fans. The atmosphere at the em was bad at times last year, and I can see it getting worse first game we lose.
And we seem a very divided fan base. Very divided, very angry at each others throats. Bad.
But we can afford 100m in buying new payers and 400k pw in wages if we needed to. But we won’t/don’t – which is a tad confusing.
Stevie E,
You wrote:
“There seems to be such desperation for AW to sign someone, ANYONE, that common sense has taken a back seat and absurd statements about the club lacking intent or ambition by not throwing away extremely hard earned money are becoming the norm.”
And I say: from your mouth to Dennis Bergkamp’s ears! especially the part about our hard earned money.
Bravo!
Doofus,
We don’t have a divide fan base. There are some sad and petulant fans repeatedly telling us that the heaven’s falling but with majority of the fans (the others) just telling them to calm down and see things in perspective. That is not division. We all want the team that we love to succeed.
Doofus
Bootoomee took the words out of my mouth. There’s a small minority of the fan base which are very loud and vocal about their displeasure. I don’t think for one minute that they represent what the vast majority (and by majority, I would say at least 99% of the fan base) want for the club. Lets use Untold as an example. There are maybe 5-10 truly unhappy commentators on this blog, out of the many thousands who visit every day. I don’t believe people would be silent if they felt that strongly about they way the club is being run, just like I believe there was a tiny percentage of people in the crowd this weekend booing.
Bootoomee
There’s a fascinating programme on 4 at the moment called (shit name) Celebs, Brands and Fake Fans. Basically it’s about how companies can purchase likes on Facebook (companies in India selling 1000s of likes for a few hundred pounds), or tweets from celebs in order to boost their reputation. Not to much of a stretch of the imagination to think this could be used for the opposite effect, creating negativity with fake comments etc. we’ve seen a big influx of cut and paste posters in this site recently… Just a thought.
Stevie E,
The noisy contrarians are not peculiar to Arsenal alone. Please see the first few paragraphs of my article titled: “Should Fans be Making Decisions for Football clubs?” posted last week.
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/30206
Stevie – maths not really your strongpoint today is it! By definition a majority of our fans is 51%, unfortunately not anything you can do about that.
I’d go read all the other arsenal blogs, you are in a minority on this site to put it bluntly. But I sense i would not be able to get you to a different state of mind.
You have 48 comments on this thread. Le grove has over 700 most days. Check out arseblog and others. A lot of the fans are not happy.
The booing at halftime of Napoli wasn’t like 1% was it?
Stevie E,
Thanks. I’ll check out the programme.
I must say here that even after we went down 2-1 yesterday, there was no booing.
I think what gloomers did was to arrrogate the booing meant for Higuain when he come on in the second half on Saturday to mean for our team. Higuain was booed relentlessly yesterday as played against Porto as well.
What I saw was happy and enthusiastic fans, nothing more.
Can’t remember who it was (sorry), but I wasn’t referring to the article when I suggested Wenger shouldn’t be above criticism. It was more a general point.
The waiting game is understandable and one I have little problem with (reading B Rodgers increasingly desperate comments are pretty funny!), as I think it may come down to our qualification for the CL proper.
No, what my issue is, is with the complete lack of additions to the areas of the squad that urgently need strengthening and still haven’t been.
It’s obvious we need a CB as well as other areas and there is no valid reason for the delay, unless EVERY SINGLE TARGET will only sign for us when we are in the group stage of the Champs League!
Fellaini has a clause apparently, he wants to play more defensively than Moyes used him last season. That’s just one player who is a realistic and affordable target, in a position we are incredibly light in.
But, why should we expect to have the squad strengthened? It’s not like anyone has said Arsenal have a load of cash this summer, is it?
I have noticed a depressing increase in the number of disillusioned Gooners at games, home and away in the last few seasons and I have had to defend the manager numerous times. I have done so for years, but now? Even I am getting close to losing confidence in him. And that really is sad for me tbh.
Trust in youth eh?
http://www.arsenal.com/match/report/1314/post/reserves/luton-7-0-arsenal-xi-match-report
Wengers coaching deficiencies are killing this club top to bottom. Our brightest hopes thrashed by a conference side, defensive mistakes all round. Just where do they get that from?
Anyone notice what happened to the first team squad at the weekend when we played the high line? Looks like wenger has put Steve Bould out of the picture again…after saving the team last season. And it will be with the same results as last season when Bould was sidelined.
Wenger has gone native, his last throw of the dice has reduced him to his elemental self as so often happens .unless someone pulls him aside, expect the worst. But who is there to pull him aside?
Doofus,
You don’t get to question people’s mathematical ability if you equate:
– 1st
– boom
– Assorted one liners and single word comments
to reasoned and eloquent conversations taking place here. Plus we reach between 100 and 150 comments regularly.
More importantly, most fans just read and don’t comment. They are easier to note on sites with Thumbs up & thumbs down. Please see the link to my article from my last comment on this thread.
If there were no thumbs up & thumbs down on TeamTalk, I would have thought that my opinion was very unpopular among Spurs fans by 3 to 0. But I got 24 thumbs up with 0 thumbs down – as a Gooner on Spurs page!!! The 3 commenters who disagreed with me got 30 thumbs down and only 4 thumbs up collectively. And they were all Spurs fans replying a Gooner on Spurs’ page!
Here is the link again. Just read the first couple of paragraphs:
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/30206
Doofus
Not sure where you’re getting 51% from? I don’t read Le Grove or spend a lot of time in the comment section on Arseblog, (although I do read the blog and news every day and find them extremely positive) usually because I find people either trying to be funny or kissing the writers arse a bit boring. However I do see they have a like option and can’t say I’ve noticed negative comments getting a huge amount of likes, it’s usually the opposite actually.
We’re not going to agree on this, no point going over and over it.
Again, Bootoomee has beaten me to it, the booing on Sat was for Higuain and others jumped on the bandwagon. For the record I find booing your own team utterly shameful.
Doofus!
Are you for real?
You have conjured out of thin air – £100 millions for new players and £400,000 per week for 1 player, 2 players?
The AST “moonshine” states, £60 millions of the £123 millions held in the Cash Balance, was for Advance Season ticket sales. The “expert” (????), then states that £60 millions was available for the January 2013 transfer window. That is, £3 millions to cover the remaining 6 months of the Financial Year.
The last 6 months have the bulk of the TV monies, the bulk of the Champions League payouts and of course, the sponsorship deals. The latter, I would suggest, are treated on a month by month distribution in the accounts.
With the Manchester United plc quarterly reports, I can make a “guestimate” for Arsenal Holdings plc. I would suggest that the payments of TV and Champions League monies are similar for both clubs. Subject of course, to performance.
The clincher for me is this, “From next year (2014) there is the new TV deal and so it is commonly accepted, and never refuted, that the club has £70 millions to spend in the summer (2013)on a combination of transfer fees/wages”.
I have added the years, for clarity.
This is the geezer, with The Swiss Ramble, who advertised their £50 millions of Transfer Money baloney. Mr Wenger, shot this fiction down in flames.
It should be pointed out that about £48 millions of the Wages and Salaries, automatically is passed to the Inland Revenue! 45% PAYE and the personal NIC, make quite a hit on the “take-home” pay.
Arsenal Football Club will not challenge for the English Premier League title, with the current playing staff!
You really are a doofuses name checking that vile blog man.
Dennis B
Nothing like a complete over reaction to a training exercise is there?
What utter knee jerking nonsense.
Dennis Brady wrote:
“Looks like wenger has put Steve Bould out of the picture again”
and then concluded:
“And it will be with the same results as last season when Bould was sidelined.”
This is how lies are created and perpetuated. Dennis Brady here made an assertion in the first sentence and in the next line concluded sure-footedly with an unsubstantiated rumour from last season.
At the beginning of last season when our defence was tight, Steve Bould got the glory from the Wenger haters. I didn’t mind who got the glory because my team was doing well. When we started conceding later, we were told that it is because Wenger, out of jealousy and spite, has sidelined SB. This is so ridiculous, only those with deranged hatred of AW can believe it.
Then we got tight at the back again (due to the great Kos-Per partnership) and you guess right; the Wenger haters changed their tune to: Wenger had realised his mistake and he was letting SB take charge of the defence again.
The other time, an Untold commenter was crediting SB with our ECL qualification at the end of last season. So I asked him/her about the 15 previous qualifications before SB. I am still waiting for a reply.
This Steve Bould bs is just ridiculous at this point.
Notoverthehill
Thanks for the clarification. Interesting to see the money is a combination of transfers and wages. Guess I’m not the one having math trouble today.
Steve – 51% of anything is a majority!! Not too bright today, think about it.
Notoverthehill – sorry, couldn’t make much sense of that last comment? We will have over £100m in the cash reserves and we have shifted 400k off the wage bill by shipping out the vast amount of dross that was milking the club dry.
I guess this is the creation resulted from a very immature self egotistical grooming fool who unfortunately for us, done A levels in english. Trying to be smart with plays on words but its terribly zz an pretentious.
Stevie E wrote:
“usually because I find people either trying to be funny or kissing the writers arse a bit boring.”
Another excellent point and this is where Untold his different. We may mostly be positive about Arsenal but we disagree with each other regularly but respectfully.
I disagreed with Tony about Untold getting involved with Transfer Speculation game when he confirmed that Higuain story. The Suarez saga has the Untold community split into 2. Even Tony and Walter are on opposite sides!
But more fundamentally, the blog authors engage dissenting commenters respectfully, unlike at Le Grove where they call positive fans unprintable names.
Apart from me. I am not very patient with people who are impervious to reason.
Doofus
I know what 51% is, no need to be a dick. I just don’t understand where you’ve plucked that figure from.
Sid – I check all the blogs. Le grove is one. If you stick to only this one, you are in a bubble of unreality that’s getting smaller by the day.
Boo – you have to ask why so many people, arsenal fans, dislike Wenger. He’s become a polarising force, dividing people’s opinion. People don’t generally hate without a reason.
Stevie – because you wrote “I don’t think for one minute that they represent what the vast majority (and by majority, I would say at least 99% of the fan base)”
So you’re developing a horrible habit of plucking “facts” out of the air to support an AKB viewpoint.
Weakens your overall argument.
Doofus,
Wrong again. Haters got to hate. They little or no reasons. Plus you are a very small minority. Yes, you make a lot of noise on the Internet but that is about it!
Doofuss I don’t need to stick my head in a pile of dog shit to know it smells nasty man. And this is one of probably 4 or 5 blogs I look at, thanks. The fact you persist on posting here says more about you than anyone else here too. You really are pumping out the whorey old doom n gloom cliches!
Doofus,
Still wrong again: re the 51% vs 99% argument.
1% of 50,000 home fans = 500 fans Arsenal the stadium. It doesn’t look to me like we have 500 Wenger-out brigade at the ground. And I was really looking for them. Believe me, I really did; especially after losing the game.
Yes, fans were unhappy about the loss. I was unhappy about the loss but no one was losing shit or crying “Wenger out” as you guys always portray on the Internet.
Stevie E’s 1% figure for you lot is pretty generous!
Doofus
Ahh I see. Well, first of all, lets put a stop to this making up facts thing. I havent presented any information as fact, purely my opinion and thoughts on the matter. Also, please don’t try to tell me I’m developing any sort of habit just to justify your argument, I really resent someone I’ve never met and have had a short virtual conversation with online, thinking they know anything about me, my personality or my thoughts on anything other than what we’re discussing. Making these assumptions truly does weaken your argument.
Now, I based those figures on the thought that if there are 60,000 people in the stadium and for the sake of argument 600 were booing (which is a very generous estimate) then 99% of the fan base aren’t booing. If we take this sample figure as representative of the Arsenal fan base in general, then I think my guesstimate is a pretty fair and accurate figure. Whereas your 51% was plucked out of thin air with no thought behind it at all. Hence my confusion.
Bootoomee
Shit man, you’ve done it again, taken the words out of my mouth! Evil minds think alike 😉
if Wenger had tried his best in the close season to bolster the squad and we had failed no one would blame him. But for years supporters, pundits and the press have said we’re “two or three players” from being winners again”. So why has the stubborn old fool steadfastly not done his best previously? It’s stupidity and or naivety to say the Board hasn’t sanctioned his spending. We’re talking about a half- decent goalkeeper and a central defender over the past few years to get us over the line. Neither of those would have cost big sums. We were top of the league for most of the six months in 2007/8 before Gallas- gate wrecked our hopes and more recently we came fourth in a two horse race three seasons ago. Both of those titles were lost by us, not won by United and Wenger caused us to lose both because of his ineptitude, his failure to strengthen the squad and his laughable ” we only buy players who are better than the ones we have”- ( check the calibre of Almunia, Fabianski, Silvestre, Denilson, Bendtner etc who all played prominent roles in those seasons ).This pre- season’s excuses have all been heard before- the man is on a mission to prove all doubters wrong and we can do nothing about it as the supine Board don’t even care as long as the cash keeps coming in- “winning isn’t everything” as we know. Just as well he wasn’t anywhere else, he would have been sacked, or in South America, someone would have had a pot at him by now.
Stevie E,
Respect man! Respect!
Boo/Stevie – That’s not what he/you wrote! I get what you mean. But again, no facts! You both spout this silliness, 600 were booing! 500 were booing. But credit, at least Stevie knows the capacity of the ems! Boo – you’re 10K out.
I think you’ll both live to eat these words when the first home loss happens – 1st Sept is a big, big game now with 2 contrasting approaches.
Validation or vitriol beckons….
There is no doubt that we will be adding players to the squad. What sort of players? I don’t know.
We don’t have adequate left sided player after gervinho, Santos and Arshavin left the club. We are short on Central defenders. Currently we have Per and Mert. Sagna can play CB but he is better played at RB. So its glaringly obvious that CB is needed and no, Miquel isn’t upto the task.
We also sold Manonne, and Fabianski is injury-prone. Might need someone who can play the 3rd choice role. Plus the lack of competetion could mean complacency from Scszeny. So maybe an experienced goalkeeper or better still- replace the GK coach.
Although Theo can play upfront, he is better at playing RW. Podolski can play CF role but we lack left sided player so don’t think he will be getting many chances at CF. The only out-and-out striker is Olivier Giroud, who is itching for competetion. This is good because it shows he is willing to push himself.
Basically after a huge clearout -in both senior and youth levels, it is imperative that we add not just quality but quantity too. Last year Chelsea played in excess of 60 matches. If we are to challenge on all fronts, I am pretty certain that we will see quality as well as quantity.
Doofus,
Seriously dude? So all the 60,000 in the stadium are Arsenal fans? I used 50,000 because roughly about 10,000 seats are given to the visiting fans. You can’t be taken seriously if you keep missing basic facts like this.
Think before you insult people. I was there on Sunday, were you?
Talking about ‘facts’ (which you won’t stop spouting for some reason), you claim that the stadium is filled with sad and petulant fans who boo their own team; we are telling you that based on our experiences, this is not so. I don’t see the controversy, except you want us to ignore what we see and hear with our own eyes and ears in the stadium and instead believe the bs that you are peddling on the Internet.
In the words of a great American politician:
“You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own fact”
Boo – yet more stats, pulled out of your arse to suit the fact you can’t ever be wrong. Normall away allocation is 3,000, or 5,000 for cup games.
But as em cup, I supposed you stood and counted the 10,000 in. As you couldn’t possibly have made it could you?
Doofus,
OK, I over-estimated the number of seats allocated to away fans. I never quoted that as a fact. That’s why I used 2 ‘doubt’ words together – …”roughly about” 10,000 seats… – to show that it wasn’t an exact figure.
But at least I gave credence to the fact that not all 60k seats are given to Arsenal fans and you were denigrating me for it. You don’t get to act all ‘high and mighty’ about my rough figure for away fans if you had assumed that no seats were given to them to begin with.
You write like an adolescent who just started using profanities. You need to cut it out. The secret to effective use of profanities is to use it as rarely as possible.
liam
August 5, 2013 at 10:13 pm
if Wenger had tried his best in the close season to bolster the squad and we had failed no one would blame him. But for years supporters, pundits and the press have said we’re “two or three players” from being winners again”. So why has the stubborn old fool steadfastly not done his best previously?
Dear Liam!
Had you ever thought that the Arsenal Football
Club is owned by a business man named Stan Kronke ????
Mr. Stan invested huge fortune of his own to make another fortune and not to appease or please AAA’s or AKB.
Let’s see Higuain recent matters.You will agree with me that he has been identified as an additional need by Mr.Wenger . When Real Madrid increases the value of the player is it Wenger own money that he is going to splash it as he want ?
The owner of the club Stan have that power and please don’t dump it on Wenger. In other clubs like Chelsea Morinho will identify the player and Abramovich open his wallet.
As a football fan I agree to the quote that says we where just short of few players to be a proper winning team.
Yes, all of us we can have same opinion .Well Mr Stan don’t see it that way I guess.
In to nowadays we hearing about a dozen of players cleared/released and so far none in.Mr.Stan has taken good decision that saves/make money.
If you get me by know my point is clear that Mr.Wenger is working with what is made available to spend.