By Walter Broeckx
People who have followed our blog a bit over the last years will have read on more than one occasion that I pointed in the direction of the decisions makers in the PGMOL when it comes to the things that went wrong in the PL when we look at the referees.
We have been accused of being biased ourselves. We have been accused of being conspiracy theorists. I almost wrote terrorists and maybe the PGMOL has been looking at us as such. We had people telling us how wrong we were. We had people telling us how deluded we were.
But of course we also have done our best to educate the public when it comes to explaining the laws of the game. We have not been alone on this but it is in fact a task of the PGMOL and I think they are the only ones to have done nothing when it comes to this.
Now one of my complaints and I even had a short exchange about this with John Cross from the Mirror on twitter is that the PGMOL is or should I say was sending refs in a not random way to teams. My criticism was also that because they don’t have enough refs in the PL they cannot cover all the games properly.
But I said on a lot of occasions that the PGMOL was seemingly trying their best to be very friendly for a certain manager that has now retired. This usually ended up with getting praise from one side and laughter and abuse from the other side. I just knew what I was saying. And I think I have found proof of what I have been saying all these years. Proof and maybe there is a new light shining on the horizon that it finally might end.
Because after the game Manchester United – Chelsea I found this in the Mail Online. And it was written by former top referee Graham Poll. So a man who should know how things work in the PGMOL. A man that has been a ref for many many years in the PL and was a member of the PGMOL in his function as a referee. A man who should know how things work and who knows the ins and outs in the PGMOL.
The knowledge I have from the PGMOL is from people who write in to me starting to say: ‘please don’t mention my name but I have heard that…..’ or ‘please don’t say you got this from me but I know that…..’ The please don’t mention my name is rather popular. And so I have found out how the PGMOL works and my attacks on them are based on what those people have told me. People who seem to know just like Graham Poll how the inner things work at the PGMOL.
So when I read the article from Poll thanks to one of our Untold readers who mailed the link (REALLY THANK YOU!) and a few persons on twitter who tweeted the link also I was amazed but not surprised. This is what Poll wrote in the Mail Online:
Manchester United v Chelsea is a top fixture; one of the top games of the season and as such needs one of the top referees appointed to it and Martin Atkinson is one of those.
That’s not just my opinion; he is ranked in the top three English referees by UEFA and by PGMOL referee chief Mike Riley.
Clearly there have been issues when he has refereed this fixture before; notably in March 2011 when United lost 2-1 at Stamford Bridge.
Sir Alex Ferguson was given a five-match touchline ban for criticising Atkinson’s performance after he felt goalscorer David Luiz should have been sent off prior to his strike and that the penalty for Chelsea’s late winner was softly awarded.
Atkinson also angered Ferguson when United were knocked out of the FA Cup by Portsmouth but of course they are no longer managed by Ferguson and so the PGMOL feel happy to appoint one of their top referees to a top game.
Personally, I’d have preferred to see another referee appointed so that we were focusing on the football and not debating whether Atkinson should be appointed or not.
If you want to read the article yourself here is the link : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2401830/Manchester-United-v-Chelsea-I-wouldnt-appointed-Martin-Atkinson–Graham-Poll.html#ixzz2dQu7KQFe
And the most important part of the article is put in bold. I repeat it : but of course they(= Manchester United) are no longer managed by Ferguson and so the PGMOL feel happy to appoint one of their top referees to a top game.
And that is exactly what I have been talking about all those years, amongst other failures by the PGMOL. It clearly is saying that as long as Ferguson was manager of MU the PGMOL didn’t dare to do it. They were always afraid of Ferguson for one reason or the other. But now that he is gone, they are no longer afraid.
So it looks as if Poll is saying that those days are over. So that would be great news. But then again I wonder: how long has this regime of fear been going on? How long has the PGMOL not dared to send any random ref to Manchester United games. And how much were the refs aware of this fear from the PGMOL about this?
Poll seems to know it but now only dares to open his mouth. But how long did he knew it? And how much did the current refs knew or felt it? Because as a ref going to a United game in the knowledge that your boss might get in trouble if you make errors against United are you then still free and unbiased in your decisions? And in the knowledge that your boss has unlimited power over your personal career as a ref and you could feel the repercussions through your boss later on.
Does this sound like a normal way of doing things? Not for me. But if you read the words of Poll carefully you can read it being said there.
So have we been watching a travesty for all those years? Did we think we were watching honest football matches but that in fact the PGMOL was ruled by a bunch of chickens that didn’t dare to stand up against the most powerful manager in the PL? If so, then this is a complete horror. And thanks to this (deliberate??) slip of the tongue from Poll we have seen confirmed what we at Untold have been saying for a while: the PGMOL was just dancing to the tune that was whistled by the piper. And Poll knows who the piper was. So do we.
Do I feel the need to say…told you so?
Recent postss
- Translating Wengerian speak
- Hey big spender, ouch that went wrong
- Özil, Is this the start of a new era?
- Italian keeper in London
- The Per-factor
- The philosophy of football
- How bad is the state of refereeing in the PL?
- The international break: feared but interesting
The books…
- Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football – Arsenal’s early years
- Making the Arsenal – how the modern Arsenal was born in 1910
- The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal FC: crowd behaviour at the early matches
The sites from the same team…
- Referee Decisions – just what are the refs up to this season?
- The Arsenal History Blog from the AISA Arsenal History Society
This and the earlier article on the bias table show the obvious pro MU bias. But they also indicate a pro British PLeague Manager bias. No surprise that it is the British Managers getting strong bias numbers. This fits in well with the British managers who have consistently advocated (and usually got away with) the overly physical and at some times “career threatening” approach to playing Arsenal. It also explains why Ferguson recommended Moyes another Scot to be next manager when they could have had any number of top quality foreign managers with the requisite European CL experience. Moyes already seems to be struggling (with the transfer window) but Fergusons recommendation indicates that he expects the bias (which will be worth several points per season) to continue.
JB
Come on man.
it’s taken you all these years to realise the FA,the BBC and the majority of Premiership managers have been terrified of upsetting Fergie.
How many premiership managers would have gotten away with not speaking to MOTD for all those years.
Surely you are not that niaive to think that it’s been a level playing field for all these years.
I fans of other teams know that the ref was usually hand picked and usually act as the 12 Man U player.
I always remember the 2 penalties Webb gave Man U when they were 3-0 down against chelski. both were blatant dives by Evra and A Man U Italian sub.
Then they do their old favourite trick of wheeling out the MOTD and Sky monkeys to justify the pen’s.
Football can only benefit from Fergie leaving.
By the way i am a great admirer of Fergie for his principals and Political beliefs. He’s never forgotten his roots.
er…?? oh well…
Lets wait and see it this stirs up the hornets nest or it be buried under deafening nonchalance .Will the press break ranks or will the wagons be circled ?
If they attack Poll , be sure that his 3 yellow card hattrick ( but no strike outs !) be re-highlighted to show his incompetence .
As much as I admire all this hard work Walter I still have my doubts as to what good it will do, as I expressed in the ‘Horrible truth’ thread. To me the fundermental problem is they already know all this. As much as your work is in such depth, and indeed extremely enlightening, as Cesc says, unless you’ve just dropped in from Mars you knew.
The bias refereeing stems from the bias media. AND THAT WILL NOT CHANGE.
Refs can have a nightmare match and can get away with it, or make one howler and get slaughtered. It just depends who he’s refereeing.
The most recent incident being the Villa game. The quality and level of anti Arsenal bias in that game was breathtaking, yet I have not heard ONE person in the media come out and condem it for what it was. NOT ONE. Infact the general tone is basically, we was crap and just got beaten by the better side. All references to dodgey pens are just excuses.
measure that against the outcry in the media following that deserved red card Man Utd got in Fergies last CL game.
Fergie went ape so the media fell in line and went ape with him.
I’ve seen it all before. So has everyone.
The Media Love man Utd. The media love Spurs. It’s no coincidence there the 2 sides the refs seem to love as well.
The media hate Arsenal, Who do the refs hate??
Poor, bias refereeing stems from how they are treated in the media. They basically tow the line from top to bottom.
It stinks and I’m afraid a few disgruntled Arsenal fans saying ‘I told you so’ is not going to change a thing.
Haveing said all that Walter please don’t give up. It is a fight worth fighting and just maybe………
I have no qualms with the bias table you presented which was quite good but I think this article would have been better supported with a table showing the distribution of different referees for different teams (over a 2 or 3 year period) to show a pattern if any for referee selection and United. I think if we make these accusations we always have to support them with hard facts and statistics. If you can show which referees were actively omitted from officiating United matches we are far better served in our argument.
@Walter
Red Nose may have gone, but the antics of Taylor in our first match is a reminder that all is still not well with the PGMOL.
We still face a high level of bias/corruption and will do so until those responsible are eventually put behind bars.
Good to see more people whose opinion might get one or two people talking getting some airtime. I think another person to have come out and openly say the refs were scared of old bacon face is Redknap, a few days after the former retired. Can’t wait for Halsey’s book, should be explosive.
Fergie may have scared the life out of the refs, but this was made worse by the fact their direct boss, the PGMO chief, was clearly out to make decisions to please fergie. So any ref who still wanted a job wouldn’t want to have those two men on his back. What I don’t understand is the media’s complicity in this all. They are/were under no obvious pressure to dance to fergie’s tune but they always seemed to go out of their way to do that. And this was after he banned them countless times or sworn at them, you just couldn’t add it up. Like Jambug says, the media’s endorsement of this obviously corrupt setup is the biggest problem we have. We shouldn’t get discouraged though, if we keep making noise about it it might just encourage someone to break ranks with the mafia and speak out.
@jambug
I think u mentioned some interesting points. While the media hates Arsenal, they are supported by many including some so-called Arsenal fans…
Even a media that is “neutral” but weak would have bashed Arsenal + Wenger just to sell papers.
These so-called fans acutally stir up a market for anti-arsenal press.
I do not believe in someone in blind faith but most criticism toward Arsenal aren’t thrown against other clubs and most are certainly very weak that they won’t dare to point it to other clubs, certainly not other “big clubs” with Arsenal’s status, but they are throwing it at will against Arsenal.
jambug (@4.06pm),
You comment comes closest to expressing why I am always depressed by Walter’s work on officiating in the EPL. I can also sense Cesc’s (1st commenter) frustration about how obvious it is. But the question is to what end is all of Walter’s effort going? Reading the ref reviews always makes me feel like rewatching the video of how I was duped but without any recourse for justice.
Shortly after Anthony Taylor handed 3 points to Villa on the opening day, I commented that he did so because of the vitriolic anti-Arsenal media coverage and the pathetic whining from our own fans. We just defeated 1 of the 2 hottest favourites for the EPL titled by 31 in our last pre-season game but all that we heard was how unimportant our pre-season results were. The performances of the top teams have so far mirrored their pre-season results.
Taylor came into that match with several weeks of anti-Arsenal sentiments crammed into his head. Of course, he was biased against us. It was ridiculously obvious. It was so obvious, a Villa fan and blogger for Metro.co.uk conceded that fact. The most authoritative (justified or not) voice on the EPL is MoTD. They told us (with diabolical video editing) that Taylor was “spot on” and guess what? Today, only Arsenal fans still believe that that day light robbery took place. The rest of the country now believe that Aston Villa were just great while Arsenal was poor.
For me, it is always the media first. They are the number one problem. When Ferguson banned BBC, not one of them ridiculed him for being ridiculous (which he was!) Imagine AW taking the same stand? He would be mocked to death! The British media seem (in my opinion) to have substituted Man United for their disappointing national teams, so the manager who brought all their successes was granted a god-like status.
The officiating will only improve when the media become impartial and honest reporters and interpreters of the going ons in the game. The referees live in the same society and they wouldn’t take actions that will bring shame to them and their families.
It has been known since the Nineties how Sir Alex Ferguson’s Man Utd had preferential Referee treatment and not just with high profile games either, but with fixtures and such.
Walter, why are you mentioning only now you have people writing letters starting with, “Please don’t mention my name but I have heard …”
Noted anyway and thank you for letting me know.
I am glad Sir Alex Ferguson is gone, there were always too many question marks about everything. He was the original buyer of success in the EPL until Abramovich and the Sheik in the Blue part of Manchester changed that, and now more clubs have caught up with such spending such as us and Spurs with Liverpool still making ripples too, the enormously successful manager has bowed out.
I think his leaving marks the demise of the club, or at least the start of it like I predicted it would be. I think the timing of his decision is not just because of our emergence as big spenders which he would have known was coming, but because the debt has become unmanageable. The lack of spending of Moyes was not down to the manager being frugal … I will bet money on this.
At the very least, I see Man Utd being another Liverpool in a season or two and it will not matter which manager goes there, nothing will stop the burning of Rome.
I am guessing Sir Alex Ferguson knows himself there was nothing he can do either.
Furthermore on the media, can we cast our minds back to early 2008? Arsenal were not letting go of the top of the league and team was in a very high spirit. We were dominating the small teams while holding our own against the big ones (my recipe for EPL success). But all that we were hearing from ALL the media is that Arsenal would not make it. There was no evidence of any kind to back their predictions but they kept making them anyway. Alan Hansen (the stupid bastard) coined and repeated the moronic line: “You can’t win anything with kids”. The rest of the media soon started parrotting that line.
I recall Alan Shearer (who I used to respect) say after reviewing series of hard but beautifully won Arsenal victories that the team would not win the league. He had no evidence; he just felt it. There is no more succinct definition of bias than feelings! I have been loathing Shearer since then. (How glad I was to see him eat his word after his similar predition of failure on Arsenal making 4th failed spectacularly).
By March/April ’08, it was clear that they did not want us to win the league with their unwarranted incredulity at our persistence at the top of the league table. Then Eduardo happened along with Dean taking advantage of Clichy’s momentary brain-freeze (but no foul) to issue a last minute penalty to cut 2 points off us.
As we got robbed in the subsequent matches, no one in the media bat an eyelid. And why would they? For fuck sake, they’ve been predicting that we wouldn’t make it for months before then! The officials were never called out for their errors because they were doing what the media wanted. We eventually lost the league by 4 points. The officials are easy to blame because they were indeed responsible for the bad decisions but they were goaded on and encouraged by the media who simply ignored or worse, justified their bad calls. None did this better than MoTD. None!
So now that Alex Ferguson is gone, who is the next? I doubt Man United are gonna get favored for sometime may be but which other manager is gonna get favored?
I feel its either Mourinho or Pellegrini. Most probably we will see Man United being sidelined for sometime now and there will be intense competition from other teams.
This is because of the need of the Premier League to show they produce different levels of results every season and its more competitive unlike Spain where its a two legged race or Germany where its more or less one team winning or Italy which is always corrupt.
So who next?
Boo
You and I are out of the same pod my friend. I could of written your post almost word forword.
How many brocken legs have we had? Ok some where accidents, Sagna on the add hording for one, but Diaby, Eduardo and Shawcross where the result of very rash, CRIMINAL and dangerous tackles/assaults.
Yet not one was roundly and unreservedly critised. Diabys passed with hardly a mention (an enthusiastic young player getting carried away I think Nile Quin described it in the studio afterwards). Well thats all right then !!! As I recall, in the immediate aftermath of Eduardos there was some sharp intacts of breath but these softies where soon put in there place under the enormous weight of people explaining that it was in fact ‘a mans game’ and Arsenal are just a bunch of ‘whingeing forigners’. Well thats all right then !! And then we have Shawcross. Apparrantly according to his mum he was very upset. AAArrghh. WELL THATS ALRIGHT THEN !!!!
FFS, short of actually killing one of our players what does someone have to do to us get at least a modicum of critisism.
And don’t even get me started on the total over the top critisism of Bobby and Eduardo for diveing when Gerrard, Rooney, and Bale have comedy montarges of there diveing on youtube!!!!
Pires was chastised by the media for that dive remorselessly until the end of his career and beyond. Eduardo endured a similar fate.
No such witch hunt has befallen any of the others I mentioned. In fact, in Bales case they’ve actually atempted to justify his antics because he’s apparantly only ‘DIVEING OUT OF THE WAY’
A media circus that portrays Arsenal as a bunch of diveing whingeing foriegners who are prepared to use every little trick in the book to cheat there way ahead of the honest-to-goodness, hard but fair, good old British bulldog grit.
That sums up the propaganda peddled in the media day after day after day. That is what we are up against.
Cesc,
You described a mild calciopoli there
I Just want to apologise to Walter.
Reading back I realise how negative my posts are. I don’t really want to put a downer on all your hard work. It is truely great work and does brilliantly highlight all what we’ve known for years.
So even though, as you will have gathered, I have my reservations as to whether you’ll succeed in your quest to bring these disgraceful stats to a much braoder audience, I applaud you for your resolution and determination.
I will alas remain the eternal pessimist, but one thing is for sure, change does’nt happen on it’s own.
So sorry for the negs and good luck.
jambug,
Well said my man, well said. BTW, I was just backing you up with my rants 🙂
It’s the stupid freaking media and their agenda driven coverage. The refs are mainly guilty of being spineless ninnies.
Does the scene of Wayne Rooney diving in the penalty box without being touched by Sol Campbell sound familiar? The scene when Edwin Van Der Sa pushed the ball out of his goal that clearly crossed the line but the lineman missed it completely. Man United was awarded the most ridiculous goals against Spurs ring the bells of many. Some seasons back, after some rantings by Sir Alex, United was awarded penalties in consecutive games to kick start their season and they won the EPL title that season. Many United fans think that their team is the best in Europe and England. Are they? United only won the Champions League in 1999 and the next took them 10 years. On the contrary, in the domestic arena, they seemed to always win it despite having very close competition. The rational is simple, this influential man is unable to dictate the European referees outside of England. Mind you Manchester United have always been fueled with good players and it does not require 2nd invitation to capitalize on such windfall. There is always a very fine line between the top teams in the league. If so, how can Man United possibly not dominate this league when the man in black often render their help. This is never a bias opinion but a known fact.
Arsenal blew it in 2008 and only have themselves to blame. Eduardo had only scored 4 league goals up to when he got injured, so to say that his injury had a an effect is utter nonsense.
Did Stax say something?
Stax,
Thanks but my comments were meant for those who lived through those moments as adults. Watching as a kid then or seeing highlights on Youtube now is not the same.
Stax,
That is a ridiculous comment. You ought to realise there are 11 players on the pitch & not just the one who scores. You have just lost any (very little) credibility you might have had.
“nothing will stop the burning of Rome…I am guessing Sir Alex Ferguson knows himself there was nothing he can do either.”
Arsenal1Again,
Before you proclaim the end of slavery and the rising of freedom’s phoenix, please factor in that Don Fergus is still on the board and that he’s an ambassador at large for Manure and for EPL football and that Manure still have major and mega strategic partnerships intact and a brand value at or near the top of all of sports and they still have RVP as a goal machine. It might or might not be heading in the direction that we all desire and dream, but let’s keep our eyes wide open on what actually occurs. (Not that I mind dreaming out loud. But it’s still a dream.)
The phraseology of Stax’s comments prove he’s nothing more than a troll. He’s not here to debate, so don’t waste your time. Referring to Arsenal as “them” isn’t something any fan of any club would ever do.
Veeraraghavan Prasanna,
my above message to Arsenal1Again is also for your sentiments. Let’s keep it real. And if you want actual change, let’s publicize Walter’s research findings.
Stax,
Eduardo was a brilliant fox in the box; his sheer presence alone was a real factor for opponents to deal with. “A handful” as some now admit about Giroud. Eduardo’s clinicality was never in dispute, until your garbage dump of a drive-by hit. Back to the sewers where you’re best suited.
bob
Maybe not in the immediacy, but every dog has its day and it’s not too difficult to foresee the eventual decline and fall of Man U. Without the fear factor and undoubted allure of trophies that Mr Ferguson could pretty much guarantee, they are already finding it difficult to attract new players as this summers transfer window has proven. With their aging, not overly talented squad, I believe they are the next Liverpool. Fucking good thing too!
“He’s never forgotten his roots.”
Cesc,
So now Sir Fungus is an always and forever working class hero? Open your eyes man. He’s a transplant into another garden altogether.
Stevie E,
From your keyboard to god’s ears. I so hope you’re right, far sooner than later; but I don’t hold my breath for immediate relief. I think we’ll all watch how it plays out on the pitch and whether the protection is packing up and heading to another trough. Cheers, mate. 🙂
bob
6 league goals in 41 appearances is hardly what i call clinical.
Walter keep up the hard work! Hopefully, it will make a change in the future!
Stax, combining Eduardo’s stats prior to and after the injury is not an appropriate way to measure how good Eduardo was prior to the injury. Eduardo’s stats prior to the leg break in that 07/08 season:
PL: 17 games (13 GS, 4 Sub): 4 goals, 5 assists
Champions League: 7 games (4 GS, 3 Sub): 3 goals
In those 24 games in 07/08, he was personally responsible for 12 goals (1 goal every other game)
After the injury, in the 09/10 year, he played in 31 Arsenal games (15 as sub) accounting for 9 goals (4 goals and 5 assists). Even after the injury he was responsible for a rate of almost 1 goal every 3rd game he played).
The stats show how devastating the injury and lack of protection by the refs was on his career. I wish him the best like a real fan should.
I have said it before, but the only thing that may change this is a Ref that mishandles a game so badly that an organized crime organization (other than the PGMOL, arf arf arf) decides to take action. Apparently, it has happened before, elsewhere.
As to media bias, I am just waiting for AFC to win the title so they can all eat their hats.
La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid.
It has happened before and elsewhere because betting got really screwed up; the South American Ref was suspected of throwing the game totally.
Please Stax, when Eduardo was crocked we were at the top of the table, Rosicky, Hleb, Cesc, Eduardo and Flamini were like this clique, loving their football ad Edurado had just come in to form. He was genuine fox in the box we keep hearing about and then Taylor took out Edurado. Then Rosicky was injured, Hleb was moved to the other wing and that clique had been destroyed. Before this game we were cruising to the title, nothing looked like it could touch us. After this game we gradually lost points and slid. Come the last day of the season about 3 months later we lost out on the league by about THREE POINTS.
Are you really saying in that couple of months Eduardo would not have made the difference and made up those few points we were short, especially since that clique would have remained in tact??????? NOBODY could seriously agree with you.
It also did not help Diarra being sold in January just before we became short. That was was very bad timing.
If Eduardo was not injured by Taylor we would have easily won the league.
I am going by memory here but I’m sure it was about 3 points we were short on the last day, it was a Chelsea game in April or May which screwed us I think, I remember Hleb being moved to the other wing and RVP was doing left wing duties until he was also injured. Diarra would have helped a lot if he was not sold in January.
Stax, you are wrong about Eduardo. fact.
The story goes that some time ago a man punished his 5 year-old daughter for wasting a roll of expensive gold wrapping paper.
Money was tight and he became even more upset when the child pasted the gold paper so as to decorate a box to put under the Christmas tree.
Nevertheless, the little girl brought the gift box to her father the next morning and said, “This is for you, Daddy.” The father was embarrassed by his earlier over reaction, but his anger flared again when he found the box was empty. He spoke to her harshly. “Don’t you know, young lady, when you give someone a present there’s supposed to be something inside the package?”
The little girl looked up at him with tears in her eyes and said, “Oh, Daddy, it’s not empty. I blew kisses into it until it was full.”
The father was crushed. He fell on his knees and put his arms around his little girl, and he begged her to forgive him for his unnecessary anger.
An accident took the life of the child only a short time later and it is told that the father kept that gold box by his bed for all the years of his life.
And whenever he was discouraged or faced difficult problems he would open the box and take out an imaginary kiss and remembered the love of the child who had put it there.
In a very real sense, each of us as human beings have been given a golden box filled with love and kisses from our family, friends and God. There is no other more precious possession anyone could have.
Before we are quick to anger, let’s be thankful for….
…. the husband who snores all night, because he is at home asleep by your side and not with someone else.
…. the teenage daughter who is complaining about doing dishes, because that means she is at home & not on the streets.
…. the taxes that you pay, because it means that you are employed.
…. the mess to clean after a party, because it means that you have been surrounded by friends who responded to your invite.
…. the clothes that fit a little too snug, because it means that you have enough to eat.
…. my shadow that watches you work, because it means that the sun is shinning.
…. a floor that needs mopping, and windows that need cleaning, because it means that you have a home.
…. all the complaining you hear about the government, because it means that our country still has freedom of speech.
…. the parking spot you find at the far end of the parking lot, because it means that I am capable of walking and that you have been blessed with transportation.
… the pile of laundry and ironing, because it means that you have clothes to wear.
…. weariness and aching muscles at the end of the day, because it means that you are capable of working hard.
…. the alarm that goes off in the early morning hours, because it means that you have reason to wake up and one more day to be alive.
… and the list can go on and on……
What do you have in your gold box ?
Cesc: is this your first time to this site?
What I meant Cesc was that we all know this, but Walyer us about proving it, otherwise its just hearsay…
@Walter.
How can I send you a private message? Perhaps you could contact me first.
Starting last night, I’ve tried to post a comment but have failed 4 times. WordPress says I’ve posted it before. That’s if my post doesn’t simply disappear.
Good article Walter, and from the majority, good comments.
interesting post again, whether this is evidence that there is a recognition that some refs are ‘corrupt’ or ‘biased’ or just intimidated by Ferguson I’m not sure. I note that Walter wrote (back in April this year) “But us Untolders know that when we have Atkinson in a game against Chelsea that we are more or less doomed. Chelsea are highly over achieving whenever Atkinson is around. And it is finding out that combination that is teaching us a lot of the possible influence a ref can have on the outcome of a game.” So Fergie’s antagonism towards MA might be that Atkinson was not one of ‘his’ refs? However, according to the table attached to that article by Walter his performance refereeing MUFC was ‘average’ (just like us).
The topic of refereeing decisions is being debated more and given Untold’s high traffic levels I am sure it is helping to force that debate. Keep it up guys!
rantetta
I’m facing the same problem..and have faced it before.
colario,
Email Tony via: tony.attwood@aisa.org
He’ll connect you with Walter.
Brickfields
I have ozil In my gold box he is going to keep me happy for years
As far as i am concerned ALL games are top games to the respective clubs playing the games. So there should be NO bias on if a top ref or a not so top ref is sent. The game should fall under the same criteria as all other games, and get a ref out of the pool. If football is going to be equal, then we cannot distinguish top 4 teams from bottom four teams when it comes to refs and footballing matters in any way. It is time that there is a Refs Association that creates good refs and plenty of them, make sure they get trained and paid well, (look at the disparity between players and refs wages) for without refs, where is football left? And good wages will also prevent most of the “possible” areas for game manipulation as well. (Although “the old boys network” the “sirs” seem to have untouchable power). I feel the refs are really neglected in this game of football, and i do feel sorry for them in general, even though i sometimes scream blue-murder at them in game. They need to get ORGANISED properly.
@Bootoome. Thanks I’ll do that.
Concerning the media. I can’t believe that ANYONE in their right mindset still thinks the media is independent. The media is not independent in any way. They cannot portray ANYTHING that is not sanctioned by the program producer or editor, who is responsible to those above him in the setup. It seems that there are many different media outlets, why do we not have as many different view points on a particular subject then? They all spout the same viewpoint across all the established media and will lose their jobs if they go outside of that. Try to get a licence to broadcast radio or tv and you will see exactly what i mean. Now for the moment the internet is there, and it is being done, alternative views makes finding the truth much easier, because one has something to weigh and balance, instead of just one viewpoint pushed down one’s throat.
@Walter L Amstrong was stripped of his tour to france wins after he was found have Doped. So what do think about should happen to united after this revelation? Lol
This definitely proves corruption.
About the media, it could very well be that they get banned from Manager’s Press Conferences, etc, if they do something they do not “approve” of. So with the tip of the sword above their head, they all fall into one line.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1214932/GRAHAM-POLL-Its-time-stop-clock-watching-pressure-refs-Old-Trafford.html
@Para
“As far as i am concerned ALL games are top games to the respective clubs playing the games. So there should be NO bias on if a top ref or a not so top ref is sent. The game should fall under the same criteria as all other games, and get a ref out of the pool. If football is going to be equal, then we cannot distinguish top 4 teams from bottom four teams when it comes to refs and footballing matters in any way.”
I agree competely. Even if the referees are proven to be not corrupt (though it is impossible to prove a negative), why should a match between top 4 teams have a better referee than a match between any other teams? Try telling that to a supporter. When the pie gets cut up at the end of the year, it makes a difference if you finish 7th instead of 8th or your top striker gets his legs chopped off because of no protection from the ref.
@toye
Thank for the link! After reading Mr. Graham, he might as well be our unofficial ambassador for degree decisions. 😀
Thanks* … refree* 😛
Very interesting. Have heard poll bemoaning before that some managers have more clout than others was he quite deliberate in saying this? Have spoken to an ex player and an ex ref at functions amazing what these guys will say off the record the ref was quite clear the majority of refs are honest brokers who felt compromised and were counting the days until fergie was gone this implies their boss is a bit on the useless or biased side