.
Prison News, by Billy “the Dog” McGraw, our man on the inside.
If it’s not a funny old game it is at least a sometimes rather droll and occasionally annoying pastime.
Robin Van Persie (a man familiar with the inside of a Dutch prison) is reported as saying that not only does he want to see through his contract with Man U, but wants to sign a new contract which will take him to the age of Ryan Gigs.
It seems unlikely that anyone will agree to such a thing – as is widely recognised Ryan Giggs managed to get his longevity on the pitch in part by totally refusing to play any friendly games for his country. Judging by some comments on Untold a couple of years ago, this never went down very well in the Principality, and the re-writing of the Giggs history into that of a mythical man who always turned out for Little Wales no matter what, annoyed quite a few – although I don’t think he was ever put away for the offence).
Anyway RVP has always been the opposite – going off to the Netherlands to get injured at the drop of a court case, and then loafing around at his club doing bugger all for months on end. When he was fit for Arsenal he was excellent, but he was unfit a lot of the time, and unfitness (even Man U might realise) increases with age.
Then after that strange story, Tottenham lost at home to Benfica, and there was a spot of argybargy (as Radio 5 used to call it – whatever happens to all their funny old words once they are retired and now that Stuart Hall is quite rightly in prison), between the Tottenham manager and Jorge Jesus. Ah well, it is something to get excited about I suppose.
To be fair, I can recall (as I was there) when we lost to Benfica in extra time at Highbury in the European Cup, and it isn’t nice. Still, Tottenham will soon have another manager – just as Mr Wenger signs yet another extension to his contract (presumably his last, given his age). So with a new man at the helm next season all will be well at WHL – as we have so often seen in the past.
That also presumably means we will then hear more about the building of the new Tiny Totts stadium. A number of Tottenham supporters did write in and tell us that the funding was no problem as the money was coming from the owner, but I’m still not convinced.
Public funding for the project (not a criminal offence) was revealed on 30 October last year, and Tottenham’s last public pronouncement that I can find was on 6 November 2013 when Sainsbury’s opened a new store. (Honest). “All gone quiet over there” perhaps.
Meanwhile the football authorities are squirming a bit in England now it is quite clear that the owner of Birmingham (now in prison in Hong Kong) had money laundering convictions before he took the club over, while paying quite a bit over the odds for the club (a common money laundering ploy). There is a squirming explanation emerging from the authorities about how Yeung was allowed to take over and the club with mega promises of dosh, only to end up in prison, but it doesn’t make convincing reading.
What used to be a fit and proper person’s control has always had more holes in it than something with lots of holes in (Massimo Cellino’s takeover at Leeds is another example) and I wonder why the authorities continue with it, since it doesn’t seem to prevent any problems at all. “English football is open for business – all crooks and con men welcome” would be a good notice.
Which reminds me (although of course there is no connection) that QPR have said they are very appy with Arry, while in Denmark Nic Bendtner freaked out and attacked a taxi, according to some reports. Well, I don’t know what to say.
Back with the crooks, Uli Hoeness at Bayern was duly sent to prison for fraud, Eric Cantona has been arrested and as we reported recently, Romania has locked up some of its past football headline makers.
Yet what of Arsenal? As Walter announced yesterday, we’re starting a new series on injuries – which seems a rather pointed topic at the moment as Ramsey’s return is delayed and Kim Kallstrom still maybe not fit for the spare chairs near the pushing and shoving zone at WHL.
The press had a lot of fun over Kallstrom while totally ignoring the fact that the deal Arsenal struck with Spartak M. is that they pay the wages until he is deemed fully fit. That actually was a very clever move by Arsenal – there is no way they can lose – but of course the press turned it into a nonsense.
The press, as was examined in detail in Blacksheep’s article yesterday, have now reached the point of saying that getting a hamstring injury is a humiliation – and that event now means that Mesut Özil is also out for Sunday against what are, I suppose we should say, the battling Tottenham Hotspur side.
Ramsey is now said to be possible for Swansea City on 25 March while Mesut could be back for the Cup semi-final. (Speaking of which when do we find out how to get tickets?)
Yaya Sanogo is also back and fit and quite possibly Kieran Gibbs and Nacho Monreal will both be ok. Laurent Koscielny will play accordion.
LOL Tony this one was brilliant I felt. This made me chuckle and laugh a number of times.
I even will throw in some smileys for the occasion
😀
😆
Is indeed an amusing article.
Interesting your take on the Kallstrom loan.As an outsider looking in I cant help but feel it smacks of poor administration just as taking a player to a CL match only to find out when in Germany that he wasn’t registered
Anyway back to Kallstrom my reading is that Spartak M agreed to pay up to 6 weeks of his wages or to the point he is fit, whichever was the sooner (6 weeks was up yesterday) also Arsenal paid a loan fee of 66ok Euros. Irrespective he has not played a competitive game for over 3 months.
An excellent montage of footballing headlines. 🙂
Picking out just one line that caught the eye referred to the media treatment of the ‘humiliating’ hamstring injury to Mezut.
Actually, what infuriated me was the snide innuendos, on the TV and in the press, that the injury was a ‘diplomatic’ one to hide him being pulled off at half time just because he was rubbish.
Arsenal subsequently released the medical details showing the injury was genuine, but were there any apologies or articles clarifying their incompetent bias?
You know what? There weren’t!! Bastards.
Mike T,
And you are relying, I suppose, for your ‘reading’ of the Kalstrom deal on the very newspapers we all find so infuriatingly biased and incompetent.
Mr Wenger gives them copies of all the legal details of these loans so that the press do not have to guess them —— NOT
Henry B
I guess I was reading the same sources as the writer of the article!
Irrespective Arsenal Holdings is a PLC meaning far more information is placed in the public domain than a normal limited company
To get a flavour of just what tit bits you can pick up it is worth reading Arsenals financial statement published in Febuary for the 6th months ending November You know the one. Yes the report that showed a loss of £2 million.
Aguero was pulled off at halftime with a humiliating hamstring injury as well wasn’t he?
Mike T, are you stating facts re Kallstrom, as would be verifiable from Arsenal FC, or is your ‘reading of the situation’ obtained from people like Neil Ashton or maybe something you came across on some obscure blog or other?
Of course it showed a loss Mike T.
I think we spend a bit of money in that period 😉 I think a loss of only £2m is even low. I expected a bigger loss over that period to be honest.
After all the new sponsorship deals are not effective yet so we bought Özil with the ‘old’ money we had in the bank. Waiting for the occasion to spend it wisely. ‘Our’ money… 😉
Mick
1) Re fee. I am fairly confident that information shown here http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premier-league/transferuebersicht/wettbewerb_GB1.html
is as reliable as any other source. On the occasions I have tracked back the information it seems to fit. For instance in the accounts I mention earlier Arsenal show a fee paid in respect of loan players for the period 31/5-30/11 of £500k which broadly in line, pro rata, with what you are shown to have paid to loan Emiliano Viviano
2) The 6 weeks thing was a direct quote from Arsne Wenger on 2 Feb
@Walter
Interesting you say you spent money. In fact in terms of transfer dealings, in respect of incomings and out goings during the period ending 30 November you almost certainly showed a profit.
Ozils amortised costs will only be about £2 million yet you received fees in excess of £10 million
The trouble is in FFP terms there is no such thing as old money. In my mind a major flaw.
Simply put the fact that FFP only deals with income and expenditure during an accounting period you could have £200 million in the bank yet make losses over the two/three year period and fail FFP
Mike T,
As a Chelsea fan, I don’t think that you are qualified to lecture Arsenal on ‘poor administration’ with respect to money spent on players. When we have sold a player for pittance and then buy him back for £20million+ like you lot did with Matic, then maybe we’ll listen to you. In terms of the current costs of keeping players in top football clubs, £660,000 for a 6 month deal is nothing.
I really cannot believe that ANY Chelsea fan will go to where you just did. Seriously?
MikeT,
these numbers show that with the pressure to stay competitive with oil money clubs and the fact that to do so our wages have to rise, rise, rise and rise some more it is very difficult even for a club like Arsenal to stay in the black numbers in the accounts.
Oil or gaz money makes it almost impossible to run a club on a decent basis and stay at the top. Unless you are like Bayern and have a monopoly on some things and some local German/Bavarion sponsor you so you can buy any decent player in your league and run away with the title without having to sweat a bit.
Arsenal are trying to do this but the fact that whatever we earn (very slow) can easily be outspend (very fast) by money from outside football by teams like Chelsea, City, PSG, Monaco and makes it very difficult.
Our new sponsor deals may seem big but in fact they are peanuts compared to what the oil owners can inject in their team when they want and have done.
@Bootomee
The context of my comment in the first paragraph of my post at 8.15am was me talking about Arsenal taking a player on loan, for a set period knowing he had a serious injury that would keep him out for a minimum of 6 weeks as well as trying to name a player on the subs bench who wasn’t registered to play.
I cant see that I say either one way or the other is it good or bad business, yes I point out what I believe the cost to believe.
As for Chelsea re signing Matic the pure numbers don’t tell the whole story although I agree on the face of it was bad business .Clearly someone made a very poor judgment as to his abilities.
@ Walter
The deals aren’t pea nuts they are huge but even bigger are the TV deals.
Good on yer , Billy – a nice read .
Giggs longevity could be due to the fact that he was regularly getting quite a healthy bit on the side and I’m not even talking lambs shanks !
RVP is just a kung fu kick away from becoming a Manure legend ; except that it’ll probably on their training pitch !
As for dear old Nic , I ‘ll give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to read all about in his book. “Belt it like Bendtner ” , anyone ? Or ” Driven around the Bend,again.” Or ” Cabby shack.”
The Spuds – nah ! Too easy ! Aren’t you glad to have neighbours like these – they do and say the darnest thangs !
@Mike T
Do you agree with Walter’s general thrust that oil money has created an upward spiral in transfer fees and wages that makes it extremely difficult for properly run clubs who wish to operate a sustainable business model whilst maintaining a competitive team almost impossible.
WARNING -AN OFFENSIVE JOKE – NOT THAT I CARE A SHIT !
Cab Driver’s Nun Fantasy
A nun gets into a cab, and the cab driver won’t stop staring at her.
Finally, the cabbie says, “I have a question to ask you, but I don’t want to offend you.”
“My dear son, you cannot offend me. When you’re as old as I am, you get a chance to see and hear just about everything.”
“Well, I’ve always had a fantasy about a nun performing oral sex on me.”
“Well, first, you have to be single, and then you must also be Catholic.”
The cab driver says, “Yes, I am single, and I’m Catholic, too!”
The nun says, “OK, pull into the next alley.” He does, and the nun fulfills his fantasy.
When they get back on the road, the cab driver starts weeping.
“My dear child, why are you crying?”
“Forgive me, sister, but I have sinned. I lied. I must confess — I’m married and I’m Jewish.”
“That’s OK,” says the nun. “My name is Kevin, and I’m on my way to a Halloween party.”
THE CABBIE
An old couple is in a taxi in America.
The taxi driver says “So which part of England are you folks from?”
The old man replies “From Yorkshire”
The old lady says “What did he say?”
The old man says “He asked which part of England we are from and I said Yorkshire”
The taxi driver says “I’ve been to Yorkshire once. I stayed with an old couple. The woman was horrible, a right bitch, it put me off going to England forever.”
The old lady says “What did he say?”
The old man says “I think the driver knows you!”
@Brickfields
I’m glad my breakfast was well digested before I read that one, morning coffee and biscuit has just been delayed!
REVENGE
A businessman takes a vacation in Vegas. He has a horrible run of luck, and spends his life savings and maxes out his credit cards. All he has left is his airline ticket home.
Getting into a taxi, he explains his plight to the cabbie. He offers to leave his drivers license or anything else until he can mail the fare to the taxi driver.
“You ain’t got ten bucks for the cab fare to the airport? Get out of my cab!” yelled the taxi driver.
The man walks to the airport, flies home, and for the next year, he works very hard, and builds back his fortune. He goes back to Vegas, and this time he wins big.
Feeling good about himself, he steps out of his hotel to leave for the airport. At the end of a long line of taxis, he sees the cab driver who refused to help him last year in his hour of need.
He immediately figures out a way to get even with this guy.
He gets into the first taxi and asks what the fare to the airport is. “Ten dollars.” says the driver. He then asks how much for a blow job. “What? Get out of my cab.”
He proceeds down the line of taxis repeating the process and getting the same results.
He finally gets into the cab with his old friend, and asks him how much to get to the airport. “Ten bucks,” says the driver. “Good.” he says to the driver.
And as they cruise past all the other drivers in their cabs, he gives them all a smile and a thumbs up.
@ bjgooner – Damn ! Was trying to trip someone or another up ! You know what they say ,” What goes down well , will come up ( At least for air !)!
Taxi Fare
An AAAA gets into the back of a cab and asks the cabbie, “Do you have enough room up there for a pizza and a six pack of beer?”
The cabbie says, “Sure.” So the frat boy leans forward and throws up.
Olaffsen’s laundry
A young man walks through New York Chinatown and notices a shop with the name Hans Olaffsen’s Laundry. He thought it seemed out of place but curiosity got the best of him and he walked into the shop. He sees an old Chinese man sitting in the corner.
He asked the old man, How in the world did this place get a name like Hans Olaffsen’s Laundry?
Old Man – That’s the name of the owner.
Young Man – Who’s the owner?
Old Man – I am.
Young Man – How did you get a name like Hans Olaffsen?
Old Man – Many years ago when I came to this country from Hong Kong, I was standing in line at Immigration. A man in front of me was a big blond Norwegian. The lady from Immigration asked him, What is your name? He say “Hans Olaffsen”. Lady ask me, What is your name? I say Sam Ting.
AHEM !
http://i.imgur.com/oPN2h.jpg
Just got back from visiting a lovely little place in Wales; Lloysthwycyyrigridarbrewwthh… sorry there was a hair in my mouth.
I went to Swansea.
@Brickfields
It was the taxi driver & Nun joke – I just had this vision of Bendtner……..
Never mind, I’ll be back to normal by lunchtime.
@ bjtgooner – I guess we all had hopes of Nic scoring , instead he goes and fucking belts it wildly ,as usual !
We should consider the comming games like 2 cup finals, I mean we need this 6 point, we lost our best players I know but I really don’t like to reduce our ambition to FA cup and I hate to say “if” we want to win the league!
There is no if clause here, we must have this double
For me comming games are must win
Persian Gunner,
I don’t think anyone has a contrary opinion. Although the games being “must win” and then being won are not the same thing.
I am looking forward to a good game in which the players put in their best. I’ll be fine with that, irrespective of the outcome. I am not comfortable with the idea of declaring games as “must win”. I want arsenal to win ALL games but never insist on that happening. It is not always up to the team.
Let’s hope that things work out in our way, for once for a change.
Keep the faith.
Enjoyable article Billy. While watching the argy bargy incident at WHL yesterday I watched the Benfica Manager use his fingers to signal 3 1 to Sherwood – I’m not quite sure why he felt the need to do that but it made me laugh.
@GooneressNo1
He probably saw Theo do it and found it amusing.
@Mick 11.32
Great question. Brief, pertinent, to the point.
I wonder if you will get an answer as brief and to the point.
‘Yes’ would seem appropriate to me.
We await with baited breath.
I find it very interesting how a fucking blowhard Chelsea douche-bag like Mike T. knows more about our club than the people who run it. That is like me saying I know more about the goings on at the White House than the Vice President. Fucking ridiculous. It is very easy to be smug when you have a scumbag Russian gangster pumping billions into the coffers to win silverware. Shit club before He arrived and still a shit club today. Fucking oil dosh has blighted the game and Mike T. is too much of a coward to admit it. Hey asshole, Clean up your own filthy backyard before commenting on ours. You really find a lot of pea-headed morons from other clubs on this website. When you are a guest in someone’s house, Show some respect, Show some class. Leave the holier than thou attitude on the doorstep.
@BILL FROM MANHATTEN
So right. So eloquently put.
Luv ya buddy. (Trying to go all native there in a New York Drawl)
@Mick 11.32
I see you’re still waiting for your answer. I wouldn’t hold your breath.
I did the same thing the other day with Rupert Cook.
He was backing some shit in one of the tabloids citing why Arsenal/Wenger will never win the CL.
I asked a simple Question.
Why SHOULD we win the Champions League?
I’m still waiting for an Answer 3 days later.
Do you know Bill you really need to take a long hard breath and sign up for some anger management course as you are clearly in need of some help.
The simple answer of course is yes money from the likes of RA & SM has accelerated both wage costs and indeed transfer fees but long before either turned up wages and indeed transfer fees were accelerating at a pace and it could be argued that the advent of televised football increased that spiral
Its always easier to blame someone else but in this instance lets look at to whom, when & by who paid the first say £10k a week wage no I tell you what how about we focus on the first £100k a week wage or put another way £5.2 million a year. One thing is for sure I can tell you it wasn’t Chelsea, Man City or even Man Utd!
When you signed Sol Campbell in 2001 his wage was said to be the highest by some 25% in English football and some 300% higher than David Beckhams. Once the £100k ceiling was breached that became the benchmark.
Its worth noting that in 2001 Arsenals turnover was about £62 million and wages amounted to approximately 63% of turnover. In 2002it jumped to about 68%
Mike T
Whatever it was it was paid for out of WHAT WE EARNT.
You just don’t get it do you.
If everyone operated to WHAT THEY EARNT there is no way we would of seen the mega inflation that has been caused by the injection of a BILLION pounds of un earnt cash.
If everyone operate as do Chelsea and City the PL would cease to exist within a decade.
at you and City are doing is is equivalent to Quantitive Easing. It can alleviate certain problems for certain sectors of the market in the short term (IE Chelsea’s and Cities inability to compete), but in the long term it is unsustainable, and will ultimately cause the collapse of the economy due to the distortion, and undermining, of the ‘natural market forces’ if it is not addressed.
You can try and justify it, even claim its irrelevance, as much as you like, but basically you arte talking out of your backside.
Jambug
Now you are moving on to a different argument. I would refer you to donations made by Danny Fiszman which Tony Adams is adamant financed your double winning teams and also the £30 million cash injection by Granada Media in exchange for equity.
The question was about RA & SM a question to which I answered yes.
The point I am making is that wage inflation in football was around way before 2003.
@jambug
Well at least he has now replied, though it took a bit of gentle prompting from the eloquent and fantastic BILL F M who likes to call a spade a spade, but he will not admit the truth will he. In denial I would say.
@Mike T don’t necessarily always agree with you but appreciate your tone and your neutrality on things Arsenal. Few would accuse you of being AKB or AAA. Glad to have you visiting the site.
@Mick
The reason I didn’t reply immediately I was out earning a crust. The bank insist I can no longer spend their money!
Now what can I say about denial?????
@ Going Going Gooner
Thanks for your comment
Yep I though Bills comments went a bit too far as well. But hey they were ok because they came from an Arsenal supporter!
@Mike T 3.57pm
Inflation, in moderation, is an integral and some would say, vital part of any economy. Where as ‘Hypa’ inflation is a recipe for disaster.
Your point is?
I find it strange that a Chelski fan like Mike T continually uses a pro Wenger site as a vehicle to air his views, especially when it usually involves some criticism of Arsenal.
I would have thought that there were enough wrong doings around Chelski to keep him amused, but perhaps he enjoys trying to wind up Arsenal fans rather than looking at his own backyard.
I also note that whatever points are put to Mike T he always comes back with a response – sometimes after quite a delay & often quoting facts from history. Either he has a fantastic memory & knowledge about clubs other than the one he supports, or he has a good library – or he has a good script writer. Fascinating!
btgooner
As it happens I visit this site as in the main I find , normally, the debate reasonably civilised. The trouble come when contrary views are not welcome
What did the famous Voltaire say?
As you may have missed my background involves football finance so have as a matter of course taken on board facts about clubs at most levels including both the professional and semi professional game. As with most of us my memory is fading but find football facts both fascinating and whilst not always able to remember all or anywhere near all I have read a lot of facts and figures can easily be clarified with a little reseach
As for my delayed responses well sorry but I have other things that occupy my time meaning I am not sat pressing the refresh button to see what has been posted
Mike T
“….my background involves football finance…”
And yet you fail to acknowledge the impact of the financial doping that has been happening at Chelsea and City.
A financial type with his head in the sand…well there’s a novelty !!!!!!
Jambug
It all depends what you mean by Finacial Doping
When AW coined the phrase he suggested it meant spending money you hadn’t earned whereas MPs in their 2009 report suggest it was more to do with spending and loading debt on the club which in turn puts the very existence of the club in jeopardy
“Save the Bridge”
Mike T, can you please explain, as far as I understand, why Chelsea fans have blocked the sale of Stamford Bridge? Don’t they want a new stadium?
Thanks.
Finsbury
I wont go into how the situation came about but its not the supporters as a whole that are blocking its a separate company called Chelsea Pitch Owners.
Do Chelsea Supporters want a new stadium? Some do some don’t. Chelsea itself feels that they need greater capacity. The majority of supporters agree the difference is that some believe SB should and could be re-developed. The club argue that the a)costs are prohibitive and b) would present safety issues as you can only exit the site on to one road.
At some point the issue will be resolved and either a vastly redeveloped stadium will come about but for me it is more likely that we will move for the first time
@Mike T
“my background involves football finance”
This is very interesting, can you elaborate?
I have been both company secretary and finance director at a particular football club. My areas of responsibility covered management of staff whose duties covered company administration and football administration.
Following that I was engaged advising cubs with in relation to debt management issues
Bootoome
I know you understand what I mean my friend
But I feel much relaxed now as I read Per’s new statement:
“These are all decisive games,” Mertesacker told Weekend Warm-Up. “There are no points to drop anymore. They are vital games and we are up for it.
(Skysport)
I want this sprit!
Since the days when Untold started this blog has been of course an Arsenal blog. But as a result of the wide range of subjects we cover we attract some people from other clubs.
Sometimes as a result of an article that is in relation with that club. And usually is followed by some abuse.
But we also have supporters from other clubs that usually don’t start to abuse but can engage in proper debate with arguments.
I always thought that Mike T from Chelsea was such a person. I don’t always agree with what he writes but I must say that I cannot remember comments from him that were abusive for Untold or even for Arsenal. Maybe some banter just before or after a match but all rather mild from tone.
So I think that when people from other clubs come over who try to make sense we should also try to do the same. I know temper can rise sometimes and words can be said that go too far.
I would like to ask for all to behave in the polite way that Untold usually uses both in articles and comments.
To be honest I rather like to disagree with Mike T in a civilised way and have a debate on things than the abuse some of the AAA posters have directed on this blog just the other week.
I think compared to the media, the AAA and some idiots that Mike T is someone that is welcome on Untold. As long as he behaves of course 😉 But I have not seen a reason yet to doubt he would do otherwise.
Walter, I do not believe you need to take Mike T, too seriously!
Cross-checking the Transfermarkt, with the unaudited accounts for 1st June 2013 to 30th November 2013, there is a considerable difference between the cash received and expended.
The unaudited accounts show – Payments for purchases of players was £35,054,000 and the receipts from the sale of players was £22,326,000. A paper loss of £12,728,000.
The £35 millions of purchases, will be depreciated over the length of the players’ contracts.
One must also look at the Debtors and Creditors, less 20% Value Added Tax and ALSO the provisions for future player performances.
Players’ agents are bound to quote the VAT inclusive sales price rather than the lower VAT exclusive price. The VAT of course, varies from one EU country to another.
I will not bore you any further! It is very complicated indeed, to fit the bought and sold players into the audited accounts.
@Mike T
Thanks for the response.
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If you were financial director of a club which was later bought by a new owner – who had accumulated his fortune by dubious means, what action would you take, if any? Would you seek an appointment elsewhere, or would you be happy to be part of the new situation?
Mike T @ 6.26 p.m.
Thanks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26577915
Brentford announce a new stadium. Not trying to tease Mike T :), hoping to see more young gunners getting minutes with Brentford in the future.
@ Walter
Thank you for your comments.
@Notoverthehill
You are right that in cash terms( the figures you quote are contained within cash flow information) during that period there is no doubt that Arsenal paid out more than received. But its not the cash flow that is relevant in this aspect.
The comment deals with what will appear in the accounts in respect of the profit made on players you sold and the element of the transfer fee paid by you in the 6 month period.
Bjtgooner
Without doubt I would walk away.
However Chelsea has been my club since I was 11 so there is no way I could ever change club
From my paid employment I can tell you that there are very few clubs in football where the owners/directors haven’t got horrors in their business backgrounds
Mike T. Are you really gonna say that your scumbag Russian gangster owner didn’t start the financial muck that football is now mired in. We got Sol Campbell on a free transfer, That is why we gave him a large wage increase. Your motherfucking club started to buy every player under the sun and sent the transfer market out of whack. Your asshole club owner was first and then other assholes followed him. I have a neighbor whose son goes to a really posh private school in a very tony part of Manhattan. He is on scholarship, He comes from a working class family. His fellow students are from wealthy families and don’t want for nothing. They are always going on fancy holidays and wonder why he does not come along. They are too stupid to see the reason, The family cannot afford it. They cant spend what they aint got. That is the real world motherfucker and the same should apply to football. It is real easy to drive fancy cars and go skiing in Switzerland when Mommy and Daddy are footing the bill. Ergo it is real easy to win trophies in football when scumbag Russian gangsters are buying them. How many first divison and Premierships did your little club win before scumbag Roman came along. It was ONE, And it took an Arsenal man to win it for you assholes. Jambug said it best, We spend what we make. Anything we have is because we earned it. Stay in your fucking pram and keep crying motherfucker and Godfather Roman will buy you assholes some shiny new trinkets. Man up and just admit It and only then we can give you some respect. At least my beloved Arsenal does things in the proper manner and our club earns whatever we have.
@Mike T
Thanks for that. I appreciate the honest answer.
Would I be correct in assuming from your answer above that you would have reservations if your were presently employed by Chelsea, but that you feel that when “only a fan” you can freely support with fewer qualms about the money source?
Persian Gunner,
Of course I understand you, my dear friend. I don’t disagree on the importance of winning those matches, I only objected to them (and indeed any match for that matter) being branded “must win”. The team should always strive to win every match they play and I believe they always set out to do exactly that. But despite their desires and ours (the fans) to win games, they come short every now and then. That is life.
When matches are branded “must win”, what we end up doing is piling on added pressure that I think is unhelpful. As you just amply proved with the Per quote, these guys are aware – much more than us mere fans – of the importance of winning games.
Worst of all, branding games as “must win” leads to supporters getting depressed when the anticipated results are not achieved. Personally, I always hope for victories but will accept any result in good faith as long as the players give it their all.
@bjtgooner
Most fans are blinkered in terms of what goes on at their own club. Very few want to believe bad press or indeed suggestions things have been conducted underhand or indeed contrary to the rules.
In relation to RAs wealth I try not to think too long or hard about it just like many on here would want to think to long about where or how your two major shareholders came into their money or how they side step regulations.
Now I will turn the tables. If Usmanov does indeed launches a takeover (which it seems he is required to do at some point) and purchased and achieved the majority shareholding what would be your response?
@Mike T
I don’t think you answered my last question.
Regarding Usmanov – I have no time for him. If I was financial director of the club & he took over, I would leave, I would not want to be associated with him in any way.
However, I don’t think he is “required” to launch a take over bid. That does not mean he will not try!
Sorry
I sort of went around the houses .
If I was involved in the decision making process at any business where I had concerns I would be that Chelsea, Arsenal, or wherever
My understanding re Usmanov is that after he purchased the shares from Glassgow Rangers in 2012 his holding went above 30% of the total shareholding and under stock exchange rules he is required at some point to make a formal offer for all shares
or wherever
I would walk. As a supporter my relationship with the club defies logic
@Mike T
I still don’t think you answered my 9.59 pm question.
I am not sure that the 30% level has been exceeded & also if/when it is exceeded if that stock market rule applies, however, I am happy to stand corrected. We did have a debate on UA about that situation some time ago – but can’t remember the exact outcome.
But, if a formal offer is made, it does not have to be accepted.
@Mike T
Didn’t see your last comment until after I posted the 10.45.
The difference between us is that in your position I could not support Chelsea as presently owned and managed.
In consequence, I can understand those who have concerns about your commenting on the financial situation and management at Arsenal. I hope you can see that point of view.
Sorry I thought I had
I wouldn’t want to be involved in any business if I had concerns as to the owner and yes based on press reports I would need a lot of assurances and answers if I were employed by Chelsea at a senior level.
@Mike T
Thanks Mike – an honest & straight answer – I appreciate that.
@Bill – Could you dial the profanity back a bit? I don’t think it’s needed. Thanks!!
That’s fair enough if that’s your view.In my defence I would say that we the supporters of every club are the constant.
Owners, managers & players come and they go.
RA will sell up at some point just like Kronke will sell up at some stage and I would doubt there would be a ceremonial burning of Arsenal season tickets if he were to sell to Usamanov.
Mike T , cannot prove it, but I would imagine the board has looked at the suitability of Usmanov to be at least a board member or maybe someone they could work with, Arsenal would be stronger working with him. The fact he isn’t a board member may or may not be telling, maybe Stan just does not want him around, or maybe something came up on due diligence?
These damning reports circulating, including from an ex British ambassador in Usmanovs country of origin , if there is any truth in them, I would not want him near AFC. If Usmanov is innocent of all these allegations, can only have sympathy for the guy, as these are serious claims, but when it comes to owning Arsenal with the allegations that are out there,guilty until proven innocent unfortunately. If he is clean, has nothing to hide and cares about the club,I would welcome Mr Usmanov to the club in whatever capacity.
@Mike T
If Usmanov, with his reported background, owned the club outright, I don’t think I could remain a fan.
Mandy a whole new debate could be opened up as to fit and proper persons.
This has been a really interesting exchange although I doubt we have put the world to rights.
Mike T,
I guess some of your arguments make sense but it does not derive from the fact that your owner has made Chelsea as his own personal play land for fun and amusement. And in his irresponsible manner, he definitely has opened up the gates of hell. Im not being harsh but I hope you would understand the view and feelings of other clubs who like to do things the right way. Arsene Wenger had a vision but certainly did not see this current madness in football. The progess made by Arsenal since Arsene took over is actually staggering. Like turning a boring town into a busy cosmopolitan. In 15 years. I have not seen any such progress in Chelsea. Planned the youth system and it went into the shadows. Planned for new stadium and it went stalled. Planned for beautiful football and finally re-hired Mourinho. Yes, the titles they won and an increase amount of fans. Man Utd had that and look where they are right now. And they are still hilariously paying for their own purchase. What happens if Roman’s next of kin decides that he/she is not a football person? Or he/she decides to become a good Christian? Or when clean energy replaces crude oil?Arsenal FC still be operational during a world war because they have reliable fallback. At least, Arsenal FC planned for something, stick to it, went for it and made a fortune out of it. The price? 9 trophyless years. A small price for 99 years of trophy full cabinets. Every good thing is hard to get and now the hard part is over, the good part stays.
Michael
Last night although it wasn’t intentional I clearly made the distinction between those that watch football and those that run football clubs
Reflecting overnight it is clear that we all, or at least think we do, know far more about how football is run.
What’s happened is that we all get drawn into the politics, the finances , the conflicts that in reality have always been there in football but due to instant news, the internet, mobile phones etc are part of our everyday dose of football. Whereas what, 25 years ago we football supporters focused near enough 100% on what happened on the pitch. Many of us couldn’t name the directors at our own club let and there was little or no chance in knowing those from other clubs.
The points you raise about RA are of course relevant and well made but the vast difference is that due to his involvement and input Chelsea is a far more attractive entity now with massive income and should RA or his son decide to sell up the probability is that new owners would carry on. Although they probably would want to balance the books which will probably be the case at Chelsea from this point on
Impossible you may say but the academy you are rightly sceptical about is moving forward as is the model Chelsea have copied from Porto in terms of buying players putting them out on loan seeing their value and stock grow . One or two will come through but many wont. Its actually quite awful to treat players, people in this way and Blatter was right when he described the transfer market as akin to slavery.
What ifs could be asked in every situation, at every club but you can only deal with what you know. One I will throw at will Arsenal mirror what is going on at Man Utd when AW does move on? (To those that say AW should be replaced I would say be careful what you wish for)
When Arsenal took the very brave decision to plough resources into the stadium the dominant income stream was match day .
Transfer fees, media, CL and commercial although very important were lagging some way behind.
Where we are now is that media income from TV rights alone this year for winners of the EPL will generate some £100 million a year reducing down to £60 million for the team that finishes in last place. Commercial income from kit suppliers and shirt sponsors alone will be what £30 million and from what I can establish to get out of the group stages of the CL will bring in another £30 ish million.
My point is that Arsenal choose the exact right time to re develop their stadium, Chelsea possibly by virtue of land values in West London could, if they can become involved in one of the various re development schemes get value out of developing a new stadium but whereas it was critical when match day income accounted for say £1.5 million a game to push that up to say £2.5 million but possibly where Chelsea are, where Liverpool are and without doubt where Spurs are is a very difficult place as they need to somehow finance re development projects and at the same time maintain the dominant income streams which are now totally reliant on performance on the pitch.
Anyways its off to Villa Park for me.
@Mike T
All this BULL.
A simple acknowledgement that Chelsea have bought all there recent trophies with dodgy Russian oil money and in the process completely f**ked up footballs finances would of sufficed.
Mike T,
Im very glad that we shared this info about respective clubs. And I would like to say you have one of the most discreet comments here on Untold. Not slanging or swearing around without any facts. Even some of the Arsenal fans are not as noble as you. Im never a stereotype person so though you are a Chelsea fan, I do support your attendance here personally. N I dont speak for the rest of the gang. Your inside knowledge of football management and those of Chelsea FC will be a great addition to Untold.
Arsene Wenger, though will live forever in our memories, is still a human so there will be a replacement for him one day. And that person will never be as powerful as him no matter what. A new manager will have vast wealth to build his team but to the limit set by Arsene Wenger’s philosophy. The culture and mentality suppose to stay forever. We must not spend beyond our means. So any success is merit and not tainted.
As for your explanation, I do need in detail of the progress of Chelsea FC’s youth academy and the future expansion of Stamford Bridge or a new stadium. I will assume that your elaboration on this will comply with the FFP.