By Tony Attwood
In one sense this wasn’t a very clever win, for if Bayern were thinking that the game on Tuesday is over, then they would have thought again on Saturday. Any chance we had of playing a Bayern reserve team has gone.
But in terms of preparation for the visit to what Pat Rice called “The Dark Side” next weekend it was a rather jolly affair. Most of the possession, most of the shots, most of the goals – it all went our way.
And as the press seem to be saying this morning, Mesut Özil played a great game and scored the goal that gave everyone belief. No mention of the fact that they have been writing Mesut off for weeks – there’s an air of “of course we always knew he would come good” this morning although with the drop-in phrase that is now in every journalist’s locked “must use lines “Arsenal looking for their first silverware since 2005…” (The Guardian).
What, I wonder, is the point of such totally lazy journalism? Do they imagine that their average reader has just turned up from Pluto on a day trip and are asking?
More interesting is the fact that we did this without a whole raft of top players in the starting line up: Theo, Jack, Ramsey, Giroud, Rosicky, Podolski, Gnabry, Koscielny, Monreal, Szczesny…
Of these, the list from Aaron Ramsey onwards will be available for selection for Tuesday onwards, and it might well be that Ramsey will play from the start against Tottenham.
Which given the quality of the football in prolonged patches during this game, is good news indeed. We have a squad that really can be moved around and will still play exquisite football and get results.
How strange it is now to read of the “difficulties” that RVP is having at Man U. There is even talk in the papers of Man U opting to sell their “difficult” centre forward. For me, the sale would be difficult. Who on earth would match the terms of his Man U contract for a player of his age? It just goes to show, even a loss that you don’t want to happen, can be repaired.
And then of course we had Mark Clattenburg and the penalty. Of course he was right, if a player strays inside the area then the penalty has to be retaken. Nothing wrong with that, but the trouble is, players always stray inside and most of the time no one does a thing. If that rule is to be applied let it be applied for each and every penalty. Not just one in 100.
What we can also see is that Yaya Sanogo is believed in. He is getting chances and being brought on game by game. Given that Campbell will be back in the summer with Bendtner moving on, we look to be strengthening in the number 9 position.
But above all, this is the time to notice Oxlade-Chamberlain who has returned from an opening day injury to show he is really growing and believing in himself. He chases, he pushes forward, he scores, he does the lot. The control of the ball is something to behold.
As is the commitment of the whole team. Özil returned to communicating with the crowd, while Mertesacker, who is always in touch with the crowd went berserk in his appreciation with Giroud getting the first of his two.
And then there is the talk of playing all the games without leaving London. The last time that happened we got to the final (1950 when we played Sheffield W, Swanseat T, Burnley, Leeds U, Chelsea (twice) and Liverpool.) We won the cup that year, for the first time since 1936 (although the second world war accounted for a lot of that gap.) The bad news was that then we didn’t win it again until 1971
But to return to the game, it looks to me like there is something else about Özil that emerged in this match. Not just that he is totally two footed, and can really turn it on. No, there is something else.
All Özil has to do really is to show his ability and skill a couple of times in a game before there are three players trying to mark him. It is like Henry in his prime. Even if he wasn’t having a wonderful game, he could draw players in – especially when he went out left – and that left space for everyone else.
And all that is before we even contemplate what Özil did for the last goal of the game.
Wenger said, after the game, of Özil, “Physically he looked regenerated, having more power in his runs. As well what I liked was he did a lot of ’dirty’ work for a player like him – that means he tracked back in the first half, especially on the counter-attack. He came back with long runs and, when he behaves like that, of course you have a better chance to win.”
A nice day out.
So what we should have done ?? Lose to Everton to expect that Bayern will MAYBE line up reserve team ?? I stop reading after first sentence.
No way this team would ever win Champions league, so why not first win somethin ? FA cup is fantastic opportunity for that, having in mind that we are losing tittle race.
Tony
Glad you had such a great day out. Great team performance with some exceptional individual performances.
What you said about Alex was spot on. From the start, every time he had the ball he looked to go forward and make things happen. When he did get dispossessed he worked his socks off to get back. He set the example, others followed, including MOTM Ozil.
You picked a good day to go, as not only did you see a great performance and a fine win, you missed the joy that is the ITV coverage of all things Arsenal.
You may of read that they sunk to new depths by presenting Flamini with a cake bearing 9 candles representing you know what.
Almost the entire pre match build up focused on the ‘9 years’.
It was a disgrace.
We played very well yesterday. Hard to pick a man of the match. I think Vermaelen deserves a mention too. He had one potentially disastrous moment, but apart from that, he handled Lukaku very well, both on the ground and in the air, matching up to him physically as well. This, despite not having played much at all. I hope we can keep Vermaelen next season too, but I suspect he’ll leave. Just not to ManU I hope.
As to Ozil, the gif doing the rounds of Giroud’s second goal, where Ozil indicates to Giroud where to run, is fantastic. That goal was vintage Arsenal, and may we see many more of such goals.
we are going to win the Championship Joke? no I mean it.this team is just good.it doesnt matter we fell to those Thugs last weekend.bad days happens in life but this team is good.only if Theo was not injured and Ramsey too oh i tell we were going to make Chelsea and MoneyCity look like white elephants.
lots of english media are just jelousy of Arsenal because it does its things the right way.we will not loose sleep on that because we are the Gunners!
While our win was absolutely beautiful, I was outraged with the Chelsea-Tot game. What a load of garbage!
Chelsea were useless in the first half.
The ref was too happy to give Chelsea a helping hand here & there.
And then, Spurs gave 5 gifts to Chelsea in the 2nd half, 4 comedy goals & 1 red card. And then the shower of praise starts for Chelsea & Jose, which is flattering them so muchhhh.
Chelsea continue to play sh!t kickball and get lucky… Arrrghghgh!
@Sammy
Agree with you about the Chav – Spud match, very poor boring first half followed by amateur comedy from the Spuds in the second. Nice dive by Eto.
I wonder if there were any unusual betting levels on this match?
Lets hope the Spuds are as dysfunctional next week!
Fantastic gunners! Keep it up!
I had to laugh this morning at the usual line up of journo’s on Hold the Back Page as according to them the FA Cup is now the third of the domestic competitions falling behind the Carling Cup. Apparently this is because Arsene emphasised the point that we take the competition seriously and if you say that that means that you and others don’t.The logic was that the Carling Cup is played for earlier in the year and teams throw all their resources at it , whereas the FA Cup is played at a time when other fixtures take priority.My conclusion is that they are worried that we might win it so they are denigrating it as a competition so that they can say that it is a minor victory. How they love to rewrite history , like most propaganda if you say it often enough people believe it.
Good win Arsenal.
Nice write up Tony.
Pat Rice halftime intvw:
http://youtu.be/Fa4ADIfD4nk
No one does self serving sanctimony like a journalist, not content with running the circulation of there papers into the ground they are seconded onto our TV screens in an effort to get more fans to turn off!!!
Piers Morgan is a classic example of one who believes his own hype and is now looking for a new job (but not on Top gear) lol….
Good review of the match Tony.
Very interesting information from Andy L.
Andy L,
I’m not shocked by anything those rat bastards do. Nothing they do surprises me anymore!
Guys, get used to reading and hearing junk punditry denigrating the FA cup, unless we fail to win it of course.
Samy the snake
Chelsea under Mourinho will always play unattractive football because he puts emphasis on defending first and willfully will give up the possession stats and play on the counter. That’s why they boast the best defence in the league.
While Eto’o penalty and subsequent red card was a joke, we have to be honest and admit the Tottenham are a mess and probably deserved to be a man down from opening minutes of the game. A wrong offside decision and a rush challenge on Eto’o by Lloris should’ve seen the Spurs go down a man early on.
Sherwood was trying to outsmart Mou and played some players out of position including Lennon who when in form is probably the most dangerous winger in the PL. Sherwood stuck him in the middle of the park underneath Adebayor . Mou must’ve had a lough when he saw that.
@Andy L
The dick Durham on Talksport is following a similar line as the possibility of Arsenal winning the FA Cup becomes more and more a reality. He is now saying that even an FA Cup trophy will amount to a failure as far as Arsenals season overall is concerned, success is only attainable by winning the Premier League or Champions League.
Andy L
FA Cup isn’t what it once was but still is the second most important domestic competition and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.
Arsenal should throw every available resource at wining it to get the media to shut the hell up about the trophy drought campaign which has increasingly made it difficult to conduct affairs at our club.
Curious about Girouds yellow card – reports say it was for encroaching at the penalty.
I have only seen highlights as I was refereeing my own game yesterday
But, I am sure Walter will answer, as far as I know, encroaching at a penalty kick is not a bookable offence!
Unless it was for something said afterwards
Paul, my guess is that the referee would lump it under persistent infringement. Not that Giroud had been fouling before that.
@Gord, yes maybe
Any one has any ‘feelers’ on young Gibbs? He looked as if he was injured for a bit.Do you see how the Press is rooting for Shaw for the WC instead of Gibbs who has experience of playing in the CL! I liked the result, the energy, the commitment of the Arsenal. Get an early goal on Tuesday, defend resolutely and get a later tie, then we can do something beautiful in extra time.
Mr. Clattenburg sometimes makes mistakes and can be erratic, but I believe that, unlike the majority of the other refs, he has no anti-Arsenal agenda. However, the stats show that Everton received 1 yellow card from 15 fouls and we got 2 yellows from 9 fouls. Also, I thought that the foul on Arteta in the incident, which led to Everton putting the ball out, deserved at least a yellow (it would have been red from many refs, if committed by an Arsenal player.)
The reality at Chelsea dives and dubious infringement are awarded with penality.
While at Arsenal a clear cut penality not even mentioned and where there is no where to hide like yesterday the Ox incident everything has to be perfect. This time the awarded peno after ages there was another trick left to hideously nullify it.
It has to be repeated the peno scored by Arteta.
Before it was Oldtoilet and now is Chelsky.
Good read Tony, and I’m bemused by the fixation with Ozil in the media. Had the opportunity of watching him against Chile midweek and he provided two sublime assists to Gotze, one which led to the goal and thought he was one of the best players on a below par German team. I heard about the jeers but to be honest I thought they were for the coach taking him off than the other way round. I might be wrong though as I don’t understand the language or the culture over there. But he had a very good game yesterday, especially backtracking, there was a time when Gibbs was caught out of position and he covered the left back and nullified the attack that could easily have resulted in Everton scoring from there.
Regarding belittling the FA cup it’s to be expected. Even if we were to win the league they’d still come up with some tosh to explain why the others didn’t want to win it. I thought clattenburg had a good game, apart from the foul on Arteta and the retaking of the penalty with Giroud being carded. That’s quite good compared with the injustices we have come to associate with refs doing our games.
Backtracking? Tracking back?
John
I agree about Clattenburg. My favourite ref. Even so the foul on Arteta WAS a yellow and he missed that. But in his defence, unlike us, he didn’t have the benefit of a replay that clearly showed that. Although of course Townsend on ITV saw “nothing in it” which is tantamount to confirmation that it was at least a yellow !!!
And the retaking of the pen and subsequent booking for encroachment was something I haven’t seen for many a year and probably wont see again for many more, so why he felt impelled to do that is rather strange. Of course by the ‘letter of the law’ he was right to order a re take, but a booking as well? As Paul asked earlier lets hope Walter can shed some light on that.
And as you mentioned John, 9 fouls, 2 Yellows for us. 15 fouls, 1 Yellow for Everton.
So even a basically fair ref with little or no history of an Anti Arsenal agenda, still contrived to conjure a couple of dodgy decisions just so we didn’t get too comfortable !!
I’ve said on here a few times that our ratio of fouls to cards of about 1 in 5.5 I believe, is a joke compared to the average of about 1 in 7.5 I believe.
I think this bias against us has been fairly consistent since the inception of the PL. I have asked if someone can attain these figures for the life of the PL because, like the refereeing stats, these yet again show a distinct anti Arsenal bias. I’m 90% sure of these stats but it would help to have something in black and white to confirm it.
Tom
“FA Cup isn’t what it once was but still is the second most important competition and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot”
I agree, but then again I don’t agree.
1) The Title.
2) The FA Cup
3) C1C
I agree, I don’t think anyone can argue with that, and as you say, if they do they are indeed an idiot.
But my question is where would YOU put the importance of Champions League qualification?
This is a question I would like to put to all here on untold. Just to get a feeling for how people see the importance of CL football as opposed to actually ‘winning’ something.
Personally:
I would be elated if we won the FA Cup.
I would be absolutely gutted if we failed to qualify for the CL.
So what would I prefer?
Well, honestly I’m not sure. Because of the ‘monkey on the back’ that is the lack of a trophy it might prove a real turning point to just win that first one.
But conversely how much harm would failure to qualify for the CL do us?
Personally I feel the ‘bigger picture’ is CL football, but it’s a difficult one.
You can rest assured the media, after all these years of mocking us for lack of a trophy, will hail an FA Cup win and failure to qualify for CL football as a disaster for us.
Now as much as I feel ‘disaster’ would be a bit harsh, I would tend to agree that it would do us much more harm in the long run than what failure to land that elusive trophy would do.
So, WHAT WOULD YOU CHOSE ???
Just re read my 2.09 post, I meant ‘Compelled’ to do so, obviously.
I think CL qualification is more important than winning any of those cups, just ask Wigan. But like you say, just to get rid of this 9 years and counting thing out of the way, it’ll be nice to win something. The ideal scenario would be to win the FA cup and qualify for the CL.
AL
Yep, would be nice to do both but you have to pick, and you have.
That’s 1 for CL Qualification.
CL Qualification every day particularly as we have the winner of Wigan v City in the semi final
Come on Wigan!
well, everyone predicted we’d get man Shitty
CL 2
FA 0
Jambug
As you said its a difficult choice and if I had to make it at the beginning of the season I would pick CL qualification . Not because I think the £30M it brings is detrimental to Arsenal’s survival now but rather because it seems Wenger determines his TW activities on that money being guaranteed , thus waiting to do any business only after Arsenal enter the CL proper.
Fortunately at this moment it doesn’t have to be either or. Arsenal are 6 points in front of the Spurs who aren’t exactly soaring with confidence and have a poor home record ,while Our away record is second best in the PL.
Sherwood has been tinkering with his squad and after calling them gutless and without character after the Chelsea game, he might’ve actually lost them so we should be able to get a result at the Lane
I’m also not one of those who say Arsenal should phone it in against Bayern and although there is no chance of a Guardiola side being complacent , it’s not over till it’s over.
The reason I said Arsenal should throw everything at wining the FA Cup is because that’ albatross around Wenger’s neck ‘along with it’s pal ,the ‘monkey on his back’, are weighing him down more than he can bear and I’m sure he doesn’t want to be taking them through puberty 🙂
Our players have let him down over the years and it’s up to them to elevate their game and put in performances like the one against Everton( not in the league though).
Mr. Attwood,
It’s not exactly top-top journalism when one does not mention one’s own previous contemptuous dismissals of the FA Cup competition and how it sucks. I love it and I love our chances. It matters and it matters to AW and AFC, by all of their statements ongoing, and to many of the fans.
Tom
As your post re iterates, a tough choice, but maybe, hopefully, a choice that doesn’t even have to be made, but for arguments sake lets assume we have to. Can’t quite figure on what side you have come down.
Just a simple CL or FA to clarify.
bob.
So what is it for you, CL or FA ?
Jambug
As things stand, with all the sponsorship deals secured, I would chose winning the FA Cup and for the sake of ending the trophy drought I would be able to stomach the media blitz of Arsenal’s ‘unprecedented end of the season collapse ‘ which you know would surely come.
Jambug.
if i have to make a choice, champions league any day.
but looking at the situation, why are giving up already? we can get the epl title, we aint too far, dont let the media affect our believes, if we take out Bayern, why not Championsleague too. If we dont have believe we can do it, then we wont
BTW 1-0 WIgan , 😀
Far enough Tom
CL 2
FA 1
“What we can also see is that Yaya Sanogo is believed in. He is getting chances and being brought on game by game. Given that Campbell will be back in the summer with Bendtner moving on, we look to be strengthening in the number 9 position.”
There is hope, but don’t really know about Sanogo yet. And based on yesterday’s shift, one is hard pressed to see him near to ready for prime time. Campbell’s recent performances indicate that may be.
And I hope their both going to flourish and flourish fast.
But if it’s winning the CL and EPL next season that we’re talking about, the silence in this statement is indicative of the table being set at UA for not advocating (if not opposing in principle) the purchase of a top-top striker in the summer TW. Is there not money? Or is being “too poor to compete with the petros” a forever mantra (or built in defense against falling short)?
Btw, we might remember that Ozil, who is rightly being well praised in this very article, was a 42.5M purchase. The one way to have a fighting chance for the very top is to have high quality in reserve because we surely know that we will be kicked and kicked and kicked. If we have enough real (and affordable) quality to fill the breech, the we have massively upped our chances.
We may yet have such quality with Sanogo and Campbell, but we don’t know that right now, except through rose colored glasses. Now that the stadium is not to blame, and the new deals are fast coming online for us, it feels about time to end the spending-phobia that is an article of faith in some quarters, and combine spending with development with one goal in mind: high-quality players both on the pitch and, for rotation, on the bench.
(Oh, and Bac should be Bac – what nous and at multiple positions and for tutoring the young and as a team ambassador, etc. He is value-added and knows it; as well as loyal as could be. What’s not to pay for?)
Sorry, Fair enough.
jambug,
With due respect for the poll, I want to make a different point: so I say go for both. I reject the choice. With a quality bench we ought to be alive and well in both competitions. A quality bench is needed for the foreseeable injuries by kicking. It’s been evident that we’ll face that orc-shite and ref-shite anytime we’re in striking distance. I’ve been an advocate of affordable purchasing for the last 5 windows, principally for this reason.
So I don’t want to be seen to choose one over the other competition. I’d say let’s do our best in both; and if we fall short in either or both, then let the lesson be to do all that is necessary to ensure high-quality on the bench and the starting XI, because the kicking and refshite will not cease, especially as we get closer to EPL and CL championships.
bob.
I see, and agree with a lot of your points but the one thing I will say is that it takes more than one £42 Million signing to offset £500 Million of ‘Oilers’ spending over the last 5/10 years.
Unless of course you’re suggesting Wengers such a genius he only needs to up his proportional spending from 10% of the ‘Oilers’ to, say, 25%.
Lets not forgot how far City finished ahead of us last year and then went on to strengthen by over £100 Million in the Summer. Nearly 3 times our spend. They are capable of, and probably will, spend something similar this Summer. That is what we are up against. And Chelsea aren’t far behind them in the ‘Spend anything you want’ club.
Anyway, we digress. What is it for you bob, CL or FA ?
jambug,
I don’t think we need to field an all-star team to become CL/EPL champions; but to spend well (which does mean a lot on even another one or two) and, especially, to choose well (which, of course, is an art, not a science).
All this said, I’d choose to do the necessary to win the FA.
The trophy would shut their holes and improve morale. The players are keen on winning it. And there’s no shame in going out to Bayern this season; but there’ll be some shame if we don’t use our dosh and nous to be in position to compete in the CL finals next season. We have massive potential, both in players on tap and in mounting cash in reserve.
City 1 down at H-T. I think we’ve been here before and sadly I can’t see this ending well for Wigan either.
come on wigaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!!
If only it had been a penalty and red card, maybe Wigan would dare to dream.
bob
Thanks for that.
CL 2
FA 2
Again I agree with most of what you say. I really hope we are now in a position to start spending a bit, indeed a LOT more. The problem is, no matter what we spend, no matter how shrewd Wenger is, City, and to a slightly lesser degree Chelsea, will still have more, a lot more, to spend, not only on transfers but wages too.
To me, it doesn’t matter how clever Wenger is, until the ‘Oilers’ money is reigned in we will be fighting a losing battle. Even when it is, it will still take a while to re balance itself.
Sorry to sound pessimistic, but I feel it is just the reality of the situation. Honestly, I hope you are right that a few shrewd buys and we’ll be winning the thing again, alas I think, as it is, it is almost an impossibility.
And for those who accuse me of being a ‘loser’ that is not the case. I am a realist.
p.s. Further to backing the choice of the FA (if choose we must) is that the quality of opponents that we will have had to face to get there is probably at the very top. Making it a value-added cup; not some little-league trinket.
AL
2-0
Dare to dream !!!!!!
Bling bling……..getting easier by the minute
And these 3 substitutes show just what we, and more specifically at the moment, Wigan are up against !!
remember the newcastle equalizer against city, that was denied because on player interfered with goalkeeper while being offside?
Then how can this City goal be given?
See when they play badly, or in bad position, the refs mistakes always favors them.
Lescot offside…. Ref booked a player for picking up the ball. Last season CL Neuer did the same but was not booked…..
jambug,
This is how the competitions line up for me:
Number 1 by HUGE margin is the EPL
Number 2 is winning the CL
Number 3 is qualifying for the CL
Number 4 is the FA cup
Finally, I honestly care very little about the league cup.
So, if I can only choose between winning the FA cup and qualifying for the CL, it is the CL for me all time every time.
Bootoomee.
Thanks for that.
My order as well.
Personally regarding the CL FA choice, normally CL Qualification is a no brainer. The thing I think is swinging it to the FA Cup for some is this ‘Monkey on the back’ ‘Albatross’ thing, which I completely understand.
But even so I still think it has to be CL.
So with you and I,
CL 4
FA 2
Wigaaaaaaaaaaan!
We get Wigan in the semi. What a surprise!
Unbelievable.
Well done Wigan.
We shall not be underestimating you !!!
Congratulations !!!
It’s Arsenal Vs Wigan Athlethic in the semi final.
jambug,
hmmmmmmm…..Citeh, not!
bob
Football, would you adam and eve it !!!!
Well done Wigan, good to see the Oilers out!!
Well done Wigan fabulous result
2-1 down with over 2 minutes to go, I saw spoilt Man City fans leaving the stadium. Disgusting!!!
City on there own ground, lost to a championship team? a story to report, or shall they keep on the Arsenal x years with no trophy? hard choice for the Jouranlists
Yassin, when we lost last year at the QFs the story lasted till the end of the season. let’s see how long Man City’s will last. at least that will further show the unparalleled bias of the media against Arsenal. Wigaaaaaaannnn Yes! we won’t underestimate you.
Yassin,
Great point. We still haven’t heard the end of the Blackburn upset of last season from some of our own fans.
Yassin
There’s been rumbles already and today will just about be the final nail in the FA Cup coffin.
Obviously from now on it will be the most worthless cup in the World and any team sad enough to celebrate any kind of victory in it should hang there heads in shame.
Trophies aren’t important. It’s all about CL qualification don’t you know !!!!
Bring it on Durham you Wanker !!!
Come on lads, just a reminder. CL qualification or FA Cup Glory. Pick one !!
Well, another FA game done, and Sheffield is through. Hull is through, so we don’t need to meet Mannone again this season. Well, us against Wigan. COYG!
1. Winning Champions League
2. Winning Premier League
3. Qualifying Champions League
4. Winning FA Cup
5. Qualifying Europa League
6. Winning Other Cup
Thank you Gord.
CL 5
FA 2
The reason why I rate Champions League above the EPL, is that the rules to win are more straightforward. It is not enough to have a good team to win the EPL, you also need some way around the referees and the FA.
Other trophies: the Ladies and the youth teams, winning just about anything. But, start with the Champions League, and work down.
I know if we win the FA I will be celebrating like an idiot, and whi cares about the media, the only media I care about is Untold Arsenal.
BTW jambug,
I posted above in case u didnt notice responding to your Poll, u may have missed mine, am a CL qualification before FA trophy.
Still we can win two titles this season, the EPL aint finished yet, and waiting till Bayern game, we have to keep the faith with those warriors,not players. Keep the faith people, our players need our voice.
It is just so nice to see all the AAA lining up to “congratulate” Arsenal getting to the semifinals of the FA Cup on the BBC website. They just trip over each other trying to set up a reason fire the manager, shoot all the players and spend 100 times more money than we have.
Following on from my comment above, I have always maintained that CL Qualification is more important than a domestic Cup, which is the opposite to the media line that ‘Trophies’ are everything.
It’s as plain as the nose on your face that now we are at least in with a shout of a Trophy, winning it will suddenly lose any credibility it did have all together, at least to the more idiotic amongst our media hoards!! I.e. Talkshite.
Thanks Yassin, that’s
CL 6
FA 2
A lot must be going on in Riley’s head right now. “Arsenal suddenly now big fav for the cup. what should i do oh what should i do? Oh i know i’ll send them Probert for the semi and if they manage to beat him then its Dean for the final”. Though i really hope thats not the case
A lot must be going on in Riley’s head right now. “Arsenal suddenly now big fav for the cup. what should i do oh what should i do? Oh i know i’ll send them Probert for the semi and if they manage to beat him then its Dean for the final”. Though i really hope thats not the case.
A lot must be going on in Riley’s head right now. “Arsenal suddenly now big fav for the cup. what should i do oh what should i do? Oh i know i’ll send them Probert for the semi and if they manage to beat him then its Dean for the final”. Though i really hope thats not the case…
A lot must be going on in Riley’s head right now. “Arsenal suddenly now big fav for the cup. what should i do oh what should i do? Oh i know i’ll send them Probert for the semi and if they manage to beat him then its Dean for the final”. Though i really hope thats not the case….
I agree jambug. Can anyone see top players queuing up to sign for us because we would’ve won the FA cup? Don’t think so, the CL is the real deal as far as the top players are concerned. It’ll be nice to win the FA just to shut itv and their like up. So we get back to the business that really matters in peace
@Jambug,
Here is mine:
1. EPL
2. CL
3. Top4
4. FA Cup
If I must chose btw playing in the CL and winning the FA cup, I will go for CL. I think UEFA are not stupid by naming the competition ‘champions’ league and still allows non trophy winning teams to participate. Since only 1 team can win any league, allowing other 1, 2or3 teams behind the winner is a recognition of the feat. So if anyone deride AW with ‘top 4 is trophy’ is right, uefa should limit eligibility of playing CL to only winners of europe’s leagues.
Im happy for Wigan’s qualification not because I think they would be easier to beat than Meltcity (I still remember the caling cup final vs Birminham), but because they humilated city @ ethiad. And if the media fail to use the word ‘humilate’ in any form to describe shitty’s elimination, they are indeed bias and stupid.
COYG
AL
I think Wenger made a mistake when he called CL Qualification a ‘trophy’
All it did was give his detractors a stick to beat him with.
He should of just said it as it is, which is, as you say, that if you want to attract the top, or even 2nd tier, European and World talent you have to be in the CL.
They don’t ask, are Arsenal a good cup side? They ask, are Arsenal in the CL?
It may be sad, it may not be what the old school like, but it is a fact of footballing life.
Wenger knows that. Most intelligent people know that. They just don’t want to admit it because then they wouldn’t be able to participate in there favourite sport of Wenger baiting !!!
Thank you Damilare, that’s,
CL 7
FA 2
Vote for CL qualification above FA Cup.
Without CL qualification I fear that Wenger might leave and, in any event, it will make it harder to attract players.
Thank you Pete.
CL 8
FA 2
In addition, I don’t think winning a trophy will keep the media quiet. What they have against Arsenal (AW to a large extent) is bone marrow deep. So don’t think it’s wise to try to please them because we possibly can’t.
COYG
I actually did not read much about Ozil in the press today – in fact if anything they downplayed his performance. He was outstanding on Saturday and I was expecting much more of positive review. I guess the journalists that are so invested in telling everyone he is crap, despite the fact he is having a very good first season in the PL (better than most foreign players I can think of in their first year), can’t really be seen to back track so quickly. I do know that if one Wayne Rooney had put that kind of performance in the media morons would already be elevating to Messi’s level again (remember that… very funny it was too).
Great win – though the result did flatter us a bit. Doesn’t matter, with City losing today we have a real shot at the FA Cup. At the start of the season I would have taken top 4 and the FA cup. If we do that then the season is a success in my view.
Give me Champions League over F.A. cup every time. I am talking about Automatic qualification. Fourth place is no guarantee of making the group stages. I’ve said it before, Arsenal qualifying all these years in a row is huge. Barcelona, Bayern Munich, both the Milan clubs, PSG, And other big clubs cannot say the same. Look at Chelsea two seasons ago, Finished 6th place in league and were lucky to win vs a lackadaisical Bayern team. Look at Man.U. This year, Their supporters would probably give rip off their right arm to finish 4th. Look at Liverpool, 4 years not making it and they are praying to qualify this year. F.A. cup is nice, But a lot depends on the draw. Big clubs or minnows, Home or away. Champions League is where the big dogs run, And you best stay underneath the front porch if you can’t run with the big dogs.
At the risk of sounding like an accountant, for a club with our model, champions league every time. Qualification has for us, huge financial implications, and maybe managerial implications, wenger would be a hard sell if we failed. Failure may also give some,within the club an excuse to go back to the years of fiscal caution, I do not think anyone really wants that.
That said, this team can get into the CL and win the cup, why not? A cup win would be a bonus, a reward, pleasing for players and fans alike, a monkey off the back. Failure in the cup at this stage would have huge and painful ramifications, again, making for some another three years of wenger a hard sell….assuming of course we are not successful in the league or CL this year, which now looks a big call.
But one thing is certain, the team will underestimate Wigan at their peril. What they did today was,incredible, maybe even more so than last may.
We must prepare for Wigan as if they are Bayern, we have recent painful experiences to draw on and hopefully ensure we do not repeat mistakes.
Thank you Bill and Mandy. That’s,
CL 9
FA 2
So far very conclusive. But I thought it would be as a significant part of our support on Untold is because we see the same ‘Bigger picture’ that Wenger sees.
CL is a ‘must do’. A cup is a ‘nice to’.
CL has been, and still is, as Mandy alludes to, essential for us, not least on a financial level, as well as maintaining our profile to attract players.
It’s funny how we haven’t seen the AAA’s around much today. I wonder what they would vote. Surely not CL as that would be conceding Wengers had his priorities right all along.
Competitive in the League. A cup a distinct possibility. It’s what they asked for isn’t it, yet I bet they are still whinging away over at the Grove or whatever it is.
Sad Bastards !!
Damilare.
You are right, nothing will shut the anti Arsenal media scum up.
@jambug
well let’s hear the media now, Wigan just beat the big spenders. I recall our league cup loss at the hands of Birmingham, we’ve just witnessed a championship team humiliate the mighty Man Shitty.
Jayram
Regarding the non-mention of Ozil in the papers, its even more ‘strange’ if you look at his assist for Giroud. Someone had mentioned it earlier here I think, but when Walter mentioned it again – that he pointed to Giroud where to run so he could pass the ball to him after he received it from Rosicky – I did a bit of Googling and found the GIF. You can see how he anticipated the whole move, instructing Giroud where to run, checking over his shoulder twice to see where Giroud was, all before he received the ball. He was already thinking what he would do with the ball when he received it. That is pure genius, and surprised not much is being said about it in the media. I didn’t see it at the time, and if Walter hadn’t mentioned it I’d most likely not have seen it. This is the kind of stuff Andy Gray would go to town over. Guess they just want to talk about Ozil when he misses penalties, just to knock the guy down. Shocking.
@jambug
I think Wenger made a mistake when he called CL Qualification a ‘trophy.
Well, look at the Liverpool fans now – 4th spot is so important, it wasn’t important a few seasons ago when it was beyond them!
Man City’s exit from the FA Cup has exposed the lack of strength in their squad. Clearly, they have not spent enough in recent years. Their fans will demand that they spend big in the summer TW to rectify this. They are likely to need world class reinforcements at FB, CB, DM, Striker, and a goalkeeper to challenge Joe Hart.
Can see the media now, build up as cannot lose the FA cup, kill wenger crucify certain players, if we do lose, an easy hollow victory devalued by supposedly weak opponents, followed by is that all after nine years if we actually win it. Adrian Durham sarcasm to follow.
To cut a story short, win or lose the FA Cup the club, and especially wenger cannot win anyway.
I am glad this is a mentally strong group, because the expectation on them with this has its own pressure.
dan
We all know how important CL qualification is. I believe most intelligent people realise it, they just don’t want to, because as I say, they just want to indulge in there Wenger bashing.
I just felt the use of the word ‘Trophy’ gave them a stick to use.
Just stressing it’s importance, for a number of reasons, would of perhaps saved him from at least some of the abuse.
Mandy Dodd.
Isn’t it sad how we just know what you say is true.
I, and others have said before, we should start at looking to ban the most despicable from the Club.
Starting with Ian Wright
And banning all our players from EVER talking to Talkshite !!!
@jambug
CL qualification above FA cup.
Only 2 matches to a trophy.
I desperately want us to win the FA cup just to shut off the “X years since the last trophy” nonsense.
Our consistency, especially the smaller teams, makes this look really likely. I’m however not indulging in the premature celebration by some of our fans and the ridiculous expectations by our detractors.
What we should be telling ourselves from now till we’ve been handed the FA trophy is: REMEMBER BIRMINGHAM CITY!!!!!!
Thank you bjtgooner, That’s,
CL 10
FA 2
Bootoomee
Spot on. And we are bound to get one of the bogey refs, of not for the semi then in the final. It just takes one bad decision, such as a penalty plus a red card, to turn it all into a ‘disaster’.
If** not
@Mandy
I agree, the media & Riley’s disciples will think of the FA semi final & final as two chances to humiliate Arsenal. We need to take both matches very seriously – I’m sure AW and the team will.
As we approach these two matches, I can see the refs permitting heavy fouls on our key players and/or carding our players where possible – to prevent them being available.
As a last resort Dean will be trotted out.
Agree bjt, taking each game as it comes, and certainly not underestimating Wigan for one minute, especially after today, but should we qualify, we will face a northern kicky team, and probably a northern kicky ref. if we get to a final knives will be out, opposing managers, especially should it be Steve bruce will be filled with advice from managers the world over how to do us.
Bootoomee is right, remember Birmingham city, I would add a couple more recent nightmares to that.
But, taking absolutely nothing for granted, knowing our recent past, the pgmol and our ability to sometimes shoot ourselves in the foot, this team can overcome!
Wigan play an interesting 352, can be effective, but we dealt with Liverpool doing that in the league at home.
1. Win the Premiership
2. Win the Champions League
2.5 Qualify for the Champions League
3. Win the FA Cup
Don’t care if we win the League Cup at all. It gets in the way of the other competitions and is a replacement for a Reserve League.
Champions league qualification jambug
I dont know why are we making a choice here whereas both achievements are highly potential at the moment. In fact everytime we win the FA Cup, we also qualified for CL. For god sake, we did the double twice. It is not a journey with two different destination. Some of us here complain about lack of winning mentality and competitiveness about the club and now we are creating some sort of mental block here with this meaningless preference voting. Come on guys, it took a lot of time and effort for us to free ourselves from this mediocre bubble and now we cant wait to get back into it again. Oh hell no…
Just having fun, actually. In reality, we would prefer to win EVERYTHING.
@Micheal Ram
You are reading this wrong (I think). Arsene Wenger prioritizes what Arsenal does. What this survey is about, is how do you prioritize things.
It is my hope that this doesn’t get turned into fodder for the AAA at some point.
I don’t think Arsenal has been mediocre in the timespan of the the EPL. There are times when it isn’t as high as many would desire, but fighting relegation has never been on the agenda. There have been seasons where Arsenal has been fighting relegation, but that predates the EPL.
We are going into semifinals of the FA cup. Sheffield United is a first division side, and it has been a while since a first division side (or rather, 3rd tier) has made the semifinals of the FA cup.
If a person was to consider the medium level of professional football in England (and Wales), Sheffield United might be the poster for mediocre. They have done well in the current running of the FA Cup, but in terms of overall play, they are in the middle.
If one looks at the middle of the EPL, we would expect that should a middle EPL team play a team like Sheffield United a number of times, the middle EPL team would be expected to win most of the time (out of 10 games, I would guess 6 wins, 2-3 draws, remainder losses).
Football teams do not score enough goals. Arsene Wenger has a reason, efficiency. I will suggest another reason, injuries.
There is no advantage to being able to score many goals. Win a game by 9 goals, you get the same points as winning by 1 goal. I think football would be much better, if a team got a bonus point for scoring 4 goals, and a second bonus point at scoring 7 goals, and nothing beyond that.
If a person was to look at when injuries occur, a disproportionate amount occur in the attempt to score a goal. It is not necessarily the attacker that is injured, although I would expect that to happen more than 50% of the time an injury is reported during an attack. It is typically one attacker versus many defenders, and consequently while defenders can get injured in an attack, the damage is spread around and harder to follow.
But I think many managers adjust their game when they have a lead, so as to minimize the change of injury in scoring further goals.
I’ve read that the most dangerous lead is by 2 goals. If the opponents score 1 goal, they are within 1 goal of tying the game and getting a point. Which should be incentive to score more goals, but the evidence seems to suggest that isn’t enough incentive.
But, if you feel that Arsenal has been mediocre in the last 20 or so years, by all means feel free to go support some team that spends LOTs of money.
Jambug and others
who would take CL qualification over the FA Cup” any time and every time”
I respect your choice however misguided your arguments are.
For starters , it hasn’t been proven top players wouldn’t sign for a club like Arsenal who would’ve missed CL for the first time in 875 seasons if my math is correct 🙂 , and out of the entire Arsenal squad Ozil is the only player in recent memory who ‘downgraded’ from a higher level ,so to say that players like Cazorla , Giroud , Arteta and others
wouldn’t sign with Arsenal is speculative at best. Most players will look at the direction a club is going and the size of their possible contract when making such a decision and that’s a fact!
Secondly, unless you have played professionally you will never understand what it means for players to win a trophy. It legitimizes you as a professional footballer who’s a part of something bigger than himself and no amount of CL appearances will ever feel the same but don’t take my ward for it , just look at the Man City players celebrate winning a ‘lowly’ league cup.
Thirdly, Arsenal have by all accounts over £150M in the bank so missing out on £30M one year can hardly be called dramatic or fatal.
Fourthly , you can argue successfully Arsenal and Wenger failed to win the league for some ten years because the financial doping and biased refereeing have tilted the playing field but you are gonna have harder time justifying failure to win other trophies , especially when much smaller clubs have managed to do it ,and if Wenger’s status as a top manager is something you hold closely you might take the FA cup trophy over CL qualifying , because if he were to retire at the end of the season for some strange reason like perhaps, I don’t know, not getting a final say on all aspects of Transfer matters, many people would regard his last years at the club as a failure.
And finally , while I realize I’m not as ‘intelligent ‘as some of the UA regulars( years and years of heading the ball must be taking their toll 🙂 ) but at least I can say my motives are pure and I want Wenger to win not so I can brag and tease other clubs’ fans but rather for Wenger himself so I can see him double pump his fists and raise a trophy over his head again.
GoingGoingGooner & Gord,
Guess im just paranoid. I know a lot of blog and column writers visit this site quite often as I have seen duplicates and redundants in other medias before many times. Steal the facts and manipulate it otherwise. Just feel that we of all people should not feed these scums with poison from the potion that we make innocently. Well, I think I should get a break and get laid.
@ jamburg – A CL qualification ensures a guaranteed 30 million . How much do the winners of the FA cup get ? The League cup ?
Its CL for me .
As someone had pointed out earlier that the ManShitty ‘fans’ turned their backs on their club and left the stadium early .When I saw this ,I asked my son ,
“Is this the new version of the Poznan ?”
@ Micheal Ram – I believe that there a quite a few places in OUG that give relaxing massages and very happy endings !
Cheers !
This is for you ,Micheal , to get you into a cheerful mood .From…
http://www.filmy18.com/the-army-hospital-t18194.html
An army major visits the sick soldiers, goes up to one private and asks:
“What’s your problem, Soldier?”
“Chronic syphilis, Sir”
“What treatment are you getting?”
“Five minutes with the wire brush each day.”
“What’s your ambition?”
“To get back to the front, Sir.”
“Good man.” says the Major.
He goes to the next bed. “What’s your problem, Soldier?”
“Chronic piles, Sir”
“What treatment are you getting?”
“Five minutes with the wire brush each day.”
“What’s your ambition?”
“To get back to the front, Sir.”
“Good man.” says the Major.
He goes to the next bed. “What’s your problem, Soldier?”
“Chronic gum disease, Sir”
“What treatment are you getting?”
“Five minutes with the wire brush each day.”
“What’s your ambition?”
“To get the wire brush before the other two, Sir”
Now that the oilers are out, pressure on us to field a strong team in the FA cup has reduced.
This is an e-mail that comes around every few years which is meaningful.Take some time to read it .
Michael Leung, a famous TV Host and MC/DJ in Hong Kong , is also a child psychotherapist.
The letter he gave to his son is quite moving. It not only provide a guideline for children, but also suitable for people of all ages.
My Son,
I’m writing this list based on three fundamentals:
1. Life is unpredictable. No one knows how long we’re going to live, so some things are better said earlier than later.
2. I’m your father. I’d be the only one to tell you these things.
3. Everything on this list came from my own experience. I learn’t them the hard way, and hopefully that’ll save some unnecessary steps in your life.
Below are the things you need to remember at all times in your life:
1. To people who are unkind to you, don’t sweat it. Through your lifetime, no one is obligated to be nice to you, besides your mom and me.
As for the people who are kind to you, treasure them, be grateful, but at the same time, be extra cautious. Everyone does everything for a reason, when someone is nice to you, it doesn’t mean they like you. You need to be able to see through the surface, instead of making them your true friends immediately.
2. No one is irreplaceable, and nothing is indispensable. With that in mind, even when you lose the people or things that you love and treasure the most, in the future, you need to understand that it’s not that big of a deal.
3. Life is short. While you’re wasting it today, you’ll realize you’re at the end of it tomorrow. So the earlier you start to treasure your life, the earlier you can enjoy it. Instead of hoping for longevity, start to live life fully early.
4. The thing called “The Best Love”, or “The One”, doesn’t exist. Love is a feeling of moments. It will definitely change over time and moods. If your so-called “Best Love” left you, please be patient and let time heal your wounds. Through time, your heart will come to peace and your pain will ease. Don’t over expect the beauty of Love, nor over exaggerate the pain when you lose it.
5. Although a lot of successful people not necessarily received high education, you might not be successful if you don’t study hard. The knowledge you consume will become your weapon. You can start from nothing to your name, but you can go nowhere if you are not fully prepared. Never forget that!
6 . I don’t expect you to support me for the rest of my life, so I’m not going to do the same for you either. When you’re grown enough to be independent, it will be the end of my responsibilities to you. From that point, it’s completely your own responsibilities and decisions, whether to take the bus or drive a Benz, or whether to eat shark fins or rice noodle.
7. You can require yourself to be accountable to others, but don’t expect accountability from others to you. You can require yourself to be nice to other, but don’t expect the same from others to you. However you decide to treat others, they won’t necessarily do the same in return. You must be very clear on this, or you’ll be very disappointed unnecessarily.
8. I’ve been buying the Lotto for almost twenty years, but still poor. I had never got the third prize even once. So remember, you have to work hard to be successful. There’s no free lunch in the world.
9. You got your family by karma and it happens only once. Please treasure every moment we spend together, because we don’t know how long it will last. After this lifetime, we won’t see each other anymore.
Michael Leung
Tom,
Don’t be a sore loser with your comment about those who disagree with you being “misguided”.
It was a fun poll. Nothing more, nothing less. Your side (FA cup over CL qualification) lost by a landslide. Take it like a man and stop berating those of us who don’t share your choice.
Your bringing the “unless you have played professionally you will never understand what it means for players to win a trophy” into the argument is just lame and totally uncalled for. I don’t think anyone gives a rat’s ass about your having played professionally and I don’t see how that sways anybody’s decision one way or the other.
We all want trophies. Why do you think that we have all been so excited about our opportunity to win the FA cup?
“So let me get this straight , women wear fake hair ,nails, lashes , contacts .
Buy fake tits ,lips ,ass and get Botox …..
But still want a real man ?”
So let me get this straight ….
http://www.quickmeme.com/p/3v3acp
Is the poll still open jambug?
If so, add one more to CL qualification’s tally.
Bootoome
You don’t honestly think I’m disappointed to be in a minority with the results of this poll, do you. lol.
Out of curiosity , it might be interesting to see results of a different poll , like for example; how many on here do their own taxes. Ha,ha,ha.
And that must be qualified by stating that the money that CL qualification brings is going to bring more chances at winning trophies. I think players would play without CL for a year or two, if they were getting paid lots of money. Just see City as an example (although they jettisoned those players largely once they reached a level up)
As astutely pointed out in an article on 7amkickoff some time ago, in terms of the financial side, as well as the loss in prestige, the lack of CL is akin to relegation, and without any parachute payments, or assurance of someone getting ‘relegated’ in the future, it is much harder to come back. Unless you have a sugar daddy of course. Or if you have ManU’s commercial strength (which we are on the way towards acquiring, though it’ll take time) So, until such time where 30m is of no consequence to us, CL qualification has to win out, so that the long term aim of trophies and general growth of the club, isn’t derailed for the sake of one trophy.
Happily though, it isn’t necessarily an either/or situation so hurrah! 🙂
GoingGoingGooner, Vacong, Brichfield, Shard, Thanks for that.
CL 14
FA 4
@Shard 9.26 That’s a pretty good summery of why, at this moment in time, and for the last few years, CL qualification has been ESSENTIAL.
As you intimate, hopefully soon, or at least sometime in the future, the absolute necessity, as a lot of us recognise, for the money and the Kudos the CL brings (The ability to attract and at least keep some of our top players) might not be quite so important.
I have conceded above that I do understand why people would prefer an FA Cup, not least for the ‘Monkey’ ‘Abatross’ thing, let alone the sheer joy of what ‘winning’ something brings. I just think it is short sighted, and the ‘bigger picture’ for Arsenal football Club, has been, and still is MONEY.
It may be sad, but I honestly believe that if Wenger/Arsenal took there focus off of the CL and say ‘Went for it’ in a cup run, even won one, but missed out on CL qualification, it could of been catastrophic for the long term future of the Club. And don’t think for one moment it couldn’t happen. And if it had then the AAA’s really would of had something to moan about !!!
Thanks to every who took part. As was said, just a bit of fun. Well at least until Tom tuned up anyway !!!!!
Jambug
Let me give you just a bit of advice for future reference . When conducting a poll and expecting people to give honest answers , you might want to refrain from making any sort of remarks during such poll that might influence some people in their responses ,e.g.
“We all know how important CL qualification is . I believe most intelligent people realize it. ”
Feel free however to make them in a summary when all the votes are in.
Another thing worth noting is that out of all the pollsters who opted for CL against winning the FA Cup , not a single person gave the excitement of top level European competition and seeing Arsenal match their talents against the best in the world as the reason for choosing CL but almost all said the money. Apparently going from &150M to £180M in the bank is what’s going to make us really competitive in the future 🙂
If a stranger read this he might be excused for thinking this was The Accountants Guild site and not a football blog.
And lastly , if you thought the unrelenting media scrutiny over Arsenal’s trophy drought was bad ,you really don’t want to know what they are gonna do if Our club fails to win it now that Man City are out. If we fail to win it now ,Wenger and the players will be labeled the biggest chokers in football’s history and we might never recover from this, competitively speaking.
That’s why I said I would pick CL at the beginning of the season but not now . This is as defining moment for Wenger and Arsenal as I remember .
No pressure 🙂
Tom
Never realised I had such an influence on people, but it’s nice of you to say.
Why don’t you try it yourself and see how they all follow you?
And as for what the media say, I’ve no doubt whatsoever that win lose or draw the media will still criticise, as will you. You are both as sad as each other.
Jambug
Media will criticize Wenger for winning the FA cup?!?!
Now you’re just being silly!
As for me conducting a poll , naaah! I never much cared what other people think but I’m looking forward to your next poll; ‘Kim Kallstrom or Nemanja Matic – who do you think was a better acquisition of the January TW?”
My guess would be Kallstrom because he came on a free 🙂
Tom.
Why do you keep putting smiley faces when you are so obviously such a sad individual?