By Tony Attwood (meditating on life to the sound of the waves of the Pacific).
There was a really amusing comment on Untold this week that started along the line of “Wenger is in charge so obviously he is to blame.” When I stopped laughing I deleted it. I mean I do like humour, but one has to be careful. Too much laughter can cause heart failure, and I don’t want to spoil our ratings.
But it was one of those commentaries that was so simplistic it was beguiling, and yet in any sort of analysis it is just plain… daft.
Behind such commentary there stands the notion that a manager has total control not just of his club but also of football. So that if the manager says, “I want player X” then everyone will bow down and say, “Yes of course, we will sell to you” and the player and agent will agree to come. (Indeed this is why I chose not to publish that comment – we’ve been over this point a number of times in the past week, so if the commentator can’t be bothered to read a little of our stuff before charging in, he or she doesn’t really deserve to be published. It doesn’t help the conversation along even though it gave me a laugh.)
So somehow the manager has responsibly for everything. He is responsible for the injuries, for example, no matter how many the club gets in the same position. Thus the year of the seven left backs was Wenger’s fault, in this view, because he didn’t have the foresight to buy in seven quality left backs before the season began, to cover the eventuality of six of them being chopped to bits.
Ah well, it is a theory, I suppose, but not one that seems to be from planet Earth. Mind you I see that Phiale Probe has landed on comet Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko so maybe otherworldliness is the order of the day.
Which presumably means that it was Wenger’s fault that Chamakh suffered trauma in his personal life while with us and lost his form when the blackmailing started. Or that Ozil was distracted by the fact that his father sued him for lots of dosh a while back. Stupid Wenger.
“Ahm,” but the anti-Wengerians say (or words to that effect), “but if he were any good Wenger would have known that Chamakh was going to be blackmailed and Ozil had trouble with his dad. And that Anelka had a strange brother and… ”
And I say, well… up to a point maybe, but if we start not signing any player with any oddity in his life, we are going to miss out even more transfer options.
Indeed now I come to think of it, I guess we have. I can think of (but sorry, I am not go to mention for fear of being sued) two players at least who we haven’t bought in the last three years, because their private lives were such hopeless tangles that the chances of getting them focussed on which end we were attacking (let alone the team formation) looked a tough job. And still the AAA are raving about them, because in their cozy bedrooms, if you want a player you get him, and if you don’t its your fault.
Footballers are, now I come to think of it, troubled fellows, by and large. Not just Paul Merson and Tony Adams, and Christopher Wreh (talented enough to keep Ian Wright out of the cup final line up, but so wayward thereafter that one utterly despaired).
We know all about Suarez and his problems, and of course of Messi and his dad and his tax arrangements back in his home country. And we’d better also avoid dealing with Barcelona because of their misuse of children…
In essence every manager compromises, simply because there are very few exquisite players available at a reasonable price, who will put up with the British media, pay British taxes, fit into the team that we already have, are willing to leave their existing club, have a manager who is willing to let them go, and have a stable and balanced home life with no skeletons anywhere and don’t demand half the take from the club’s shops in addition to their salary (as one player did).
Indeed those writers who are now laying into Wenger for letting Merson go should recognise that Merson was an occasionally brilliant, often good player who was bedevilled by problems. Problems that make Chamakh, Ozil and Giroud look like angels.
But anyway, the fact is that sooner or later Mr Wenger will go, and what these writers who say “Wenger is in charge so it is all obviously his fault” rarely tell us is who is going to come next.
And remember all the same isues will crop up again. Does the manager want to pay UK tax, face the UK press, take on the abuse that Wenger got on day one when they gathered on the steps of Highbury, take on the AAA, and so on. I suspect a lot of names are already out of the frame just through that little list.
Amazingly I saw a suggestion that Allerdyce should now be seen as a top manager and a possible contender. If that is the case I think I will stay in Australia permanently. Allerdyce, the man who invented rotational fouling. The man that even West Ham fans with their modest expectations, despised until a few weeks ago. The man who upon a criticism of his son makes big noises about suing the BBC and then somehow doesn’t. And the man the Guardian is now saying should be England manager.
So who? And remember you need about half a dozen names at least to account for those who don’t fancy the job and those who simply are honourable and don’t want to break their current contract. And the list is…
Well not massive. Southampton got it right twice, a full marks to them. Tottenham have got it wrong, wronger, wrongest and double wrongest all the time. Man U have had two bashes with men of high repute, only to find that the second has spent ten times as much as the first and is still not getting it right. Everton brought in a manager who looked to have it all, but turns out not quite to have it all. Liverpool have a manager who was the bright up and coming star, who was handed £80m from Barcelona desperate to bring in anyone at any price before their ban and did a Tottenham with it.
Fabio Capello? He’d get the defence going. But there was that murky business before with… well better not say but you can find it on the internet. Leonardo Jardim at Monaco, Laurent Blanc at PSG, Massimiliano Allegri at Juventus, Jürgen Klopp… oh it is so easy to real off the names, so hard to persuade them to come to a club infested by the AAA.
And will he do as well as Wenger from the start? Reemember we got into the Champions League at the end of the first (incomplete) Wenger season, during which we bought Vieira for £3.5m, and then won the Double in the next season – Mr Wenger’s first full season.
OK the Double isn’t needed, because the AAA have made it clear that the FA Cup is irrelevant (if it were not they wouldn’t be making a fuss now). So winning the league in the second season is a minimal requirement. And the signing of a player as good as Vieira. (We’ll allow him to be sent off quite a bit, but he’s got to be signed).
We can slip down to sixth in the league, and win just two in seven around Christmas, that is ok, because that is what happened in Wenger’s second season, but the recovery had better be good.
But whoever it is you can be sure that
1. Because he is at Arsenal the media will behave like pigs in a trough, just as they did the day Mr Wenger arrived. Actually that’s an insult to pigs.
2. He will have to buy all the best players as if no one else is in the market, because he needs to, because the AAA tell us we need lots of them.
3. He will make it happen at once, because slipping down the league is just not allowable.
So, that’s ok then. Oh, and he’ll need to agree that everything is his fault. Cos he’s in charge.
——————————–
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An outstanding post by any measure. That Pacific sun is doing you good.
Think there may have been more than two players we avoided…one of them, we have really dodged a bullet, a young guy touted at twenty million who has been nothing but trouble ever since. Think he was in Russia somewhere? But names are not the point, and you make a great point…..there can be things simmering below the surface.
Looks like Ozil has had a few problems this season, a great chance for wenger to back him and get him further onside.
Wenger clearly at least tries to stay clear of the troubled, if players have certain types of problems, he gives them a chance to reform, as he has a couple in the team now, but he will only go so far. For instance, cannot imagine him keeping a racist ….or at least a user of racist language who shags team mates wives!
Who will mama her arsenal after wenger goes…..every day I read blogs and comments from those who clearly think they have all the answers!
Do you have a prof. Degree in situation analysis or something?i would personally love a remake of wenger’s second season although i doubt of its happening.the competition has got harder and does oilers painted in blue(both pale and dark) aren’t waiting for us.i guess we better keep up,it won’t be over until arteta lifts the premier league and f.a cup titles.in that case who plays the community shield.
Tony, Reality and humor all in one!!! Excellent article.
Allerdyce to Arsenal = “stay in Australia permanently”. SO FUNNY 🙂 🙂 In fact I will move back down that way myself 🙂
You seem to be intent on frightening off future managers, going on about tax, the press and the fans. A few days ago it was the claim that only a madman would manage Arsenal, implying Wenger was one which is what his critics keep saying. I imagine nearly every manager in the world would want to manage Arsenal, the prestige and the huge pay packet would entice many. I doubt any of the managers you mention have a clue what the AAA is, they’re more interested in working with good players of which we have quite a few. Have you ever heard of a manager not wanting to manage a club because of the fans? Sounds like a load of nonsense to me especially as our fans are hardly the equivalent of Italian ultras; they’re mostly well paid middle class types, I imagine, as mainly only those types can afford to go.
You seem to love to do a disservice to the fans as well. You’d think a majority would want Wenger defenestrated when it’s a minority. Sure there’s a growing number who have their doubts but most managers suffer such ignominy, look at Rogers at Pool where there is growing disenchantment among a minority.
Look at how Benitez, a CL winning manager, got treated at Chelsea, yet they didn’t struggle to employ another one, admittedly one they all love, but I thought the actions of their fans was far worse than anything any of ours have orchestrated. And Benitez won Chelsea yet another trophy, a European one at that.
As for Allardyce, you’re ‘avin’ a laugh. I don’t think any Arsenal fan who has any intelligence, even if he or she has an IQ of lobotomised rat, would want him to manage us.
Eventually Wenger will go, either carried out feet first or retired, and someone will have to manage the club. Perhaps you can start searching your local lunatic asylum.
The fact about player signing is not a walk in the park (as you well describe) is so real. Players of today are not of the same cast. They are spoiled little brats (in so many cases), with money to burn, making their private lives much the same as Hollywood celebrities.
The Media frenzy around todays players doesn’t help in the least…they have no privacy and all is reviled in detail and with horrifying rumors!!! Coupled with the player tendencies I mentioned above, you have ingredients for very unstable mentalities for these young guys.
To find the type who avoids all this and stays focused on the job in hand and STAY that way…is a mammoth task to begin with.
Mircea Lucescu … lol
Sometimes I start to go in deep thought of my own as to what will happen after Wenger leaves,retires or whatever. I feel scared of dropping down ranks, but then I make myself feel positive by reminding myself of Arsene Wenger’s 100% commitment and dedication to the club and that he won’t leave with used up squad hanging by thread like Sir Alex did.
He has spent at least 30% of his life helping us reach from a big club to a Super Club, and allowed the club to excel in youth, club finances, training grounds and facilities, better stadium (with no disrespect to Highbury), a world-wide name, and much more.
Yesterday I checked Arsenal’s website and saw pictures of Giroud returning to full training and in the pictures I saw Wenger full in training kit also with just 3 other players. It was raining badly. Then I remembered its the international break for at least 10 days or so and you see players and managers (not playing internationals) of others clubs relaxing and taking their time off. And then there is Arsene Wenger who in a period of break is showing full commitment and dedication just for betterment of the 2-3 players.
All very true, Tony.
I try to live in the present – the future is in general hard to predict and possibly gloomy.
And so it is with Arsenal. I do trust Arsenal to make the very best successor appointment possible, and to stick by him and support him as he establishes himself.
But Arsene Wenger has done such an amazing job, and is so unusual among football managers as a person, that I don’t want to think of him going. And I can’t believe anybody else would provide us with those gems of press conferences.
I said it before. The media, the AAA and all the amateurs that have this delusional idea that they know better than Arsene Wenger are idiots. Seriously, all they do is offer ‘opinion’, nothing they say can be proved or disproved. And they know it. Its all speculative nonsense from complete amateurs.
However, a very well known blogger with a rational hatred of Arsene Wenger (and who at times comes across as being anti-Arsenal) is one of those described perfectly by Tony. He blames Arsene Wenger for everything. We injure our own players, our scouts are rubbish, Wenger is useless at tactics, Ozil is rubbish, Sanchez doesn’t know what he’s talking about (I posted this yesterday), it was only Hull, Man City rested all their players and Mourinho is a god.
He also writes for the Metro, amongst others and seems to have a very high opinion of himself. But here is an example of the type of nonsense he produces on a regular basis, which can be proved as nonsense. Looking back, it is a really good laugh and proves how clueless these clowns are:
http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/30/tottenham-give-arsenal-a-lesson-in-transfers-theyve-lost-gareth-bale-but-built-a-squad-3942406/
Proudkev,
Thanks for that link. I now will walk the whole day with a big grin on my face. What bollocks…. LOL 🙂 🙂 😛
The bollocks not your comment of course but what he wrote in his Metro article.
he looks like an Hillbilly extra from the film Deliverance.
Remember these people are writing for other people with the attention spans of gnats – who only live in the present, and only consider the most recent match (occasionally the one before).
Therefore any assessments and predictions made over a year previously will have been long forgotten and the author will never be held accountable.
If I had a pound for every commenter on this site who predicted we would fall out of the top 4 in any given season (so presumably going back to when Untold started) I would now be a very rich man. But it is very, very rarely that any of these people will ever admit they are wrong.
It would be great – but completely unfeasible (perhaps Gord could do it…?) – to write a searchable database where every prediction from every writer and commenter on Untold could be held – and then recycled at appropriate junctures. We all make mistakes with our predictions but some people are so consistently wrong it would be useful to know so we could ignore their hyperbolic rantings.
This from his Metro article is enough to make it a topic for an International Comedians Conference:
“Tottenham give Arsenal a lesson in transfers – they’ve lost Gareth Bale, but built a squad.”
What a headline…what a plOOOnkerrrrr!!!
He must be talking of a different Spurs team to that sitting on 12 spot!!!
Rafa Benitez?
The day Arsene decides to retire from football (he will never be sacked by Arsenal) will be one of the saddest days in the club’s recent history.
has epl experience, has europe experience, is tactically above mou and can work on a budget too as long as he odnt have asreholes owners denying him money for a striker and then loading robbie keanne on him without asking…for 20 million….
@bob mac
November 14, 2014 at 11:14 am
So TRUE!!!
I have a very strong feeling that even when the time comes for Wenger to move off the training field/match day work he currently has for AFC…his presence in person will be somewhere inside the club – and he will continue to filter down the line his ever so important influence!!!
proudkev
November 14, 2014 at 10:40 am
Thank you for that link proudkev. I don’t allow metro near my comp so would have missed it.
I quote from it and have given given caps to two words:
“Spurs have taken two seasons worth of Champions League money and injected it into players who MIGHT gel and make an impact on the league table THIS year.”
When might they gel not last year or this year that’s for sure so roll on next year when they have a new manager, perhaps then the new players bought on Bale’s money might gel.
Who would be a spuds supporter? Poor soul.
@Bob Mac.
Rightly said. Will be.
He is the one that cannot be replaced. His work cannot be replicated. We as a club should be and we are proud to have him.
που εισαι ρε Κωστα?
So that moron writes for Metro. Well, he’s no soothsayer!
What “Champions League money”….?!
Regarding Wenger – can only agree. Will be extraordinarily hard to replace.
There is a real risk that whoever we get in will be unable to meet the over-inflated expectations of the usual suspects. In fact there is a high likelihood he won’t match Wenger’s usual 3rd/4th place finishes.
Then there is a danger of us “doing a Tottenham” – continually changing managers and having no continuity.
It is Tottenham who suffer from “Groundhog Day” syndrome – not us.
@bob mac,
Your 11.14 is quite right. The trouble is that it is only after Arsene leaves, that his worth is realised.
His successor will then inherit the same criticism and bias during HIS tenancy.
They of little faith will never learn.
Outside of the usual suspects such as Klopp, etc, I think Martinez would be a good fit for Arsenal when Wenger finally leaves. I’d also like him to be considered for the City job as well after Pellegrini goes. Plays an attractive style of football which fits in with the current philosophy and is a decent bloke to boot. The only question mark would be whether he’d be considered to be experienced enough.
As the January Window approaches, I find it quite amusing that every player the media suggests Arsene should sign, is referred to as “Arsene Wenger has long been a fan of——“.
When Arsene is no longer Manager of Arsenal, no doubt the new man will be referred to as “a long-time fan of Tom , Dick or Harry”.
Georgaki-pyrovolitis
November 14, 2014 at 11:35 am
🙂
all good?
I didn’t know 5th and 6th spot in May gets Champions League money – or does it now for Metro?? hahahahahaha
Walter, I guess as far as qualifications go that twit has a degree in being an absolute idiot.
How to be an idiot (Part two):
I posted this previously, sorry, but it is relevant to the thread.
Alexis Sanchez commenting on Arsenal:
“…..sometimes I stop to look at my team mates during the training session and I realise that I’mm surrounded by a lot of quality stars. I have been impressed by their attitude and their talent. I know that with this team we can win many trophies in the coming years. I’m convinced. I love how they create spaces, their individual and collective movements. I tell you seriously: I like what I see so much that I have repeated myself many times, that if we have the required winning mentality, if we are positive and try to win every single game, I know we can win any competition.’
As an Arsenal fan this is great to read and disproves some of the nonsense we have had to read about him not being happy.It is also interesting that a player that has worked with some of the greats at Barcelona, feels the current Arsenal team has huge potential. As an Arsenal fan, struggling in a mire of obsessive negativity, yiou would think this would warm the spirits. Good positive stuff eh?
Nope. Not according to the same bloke that wrote that Metro article and runs ‘that’ blog.
This is what he produced for his readers:
“He (Alexis Sanchez) put down some thoughts that were almost comical in their bizarreness. But that chat doesn’t really stack up with the reality of what we’re seeing. It’s true that we do have very good players, but I’m not sure I see much of what Alexis is seeing.”
Somebody needs to explain to me how you can be an Arsenal fan, yet spend every day of your life finding something negative to say about the club.
But one things for sure. The incredible lack of knowledge he displays, proves why he is so anti-Wenger. He is an idiot.
Wenger has been with Arsenal long enough for many to miss him should he leave. I feel for whoever will take over because I have a feeling that if he succeeds in taking the club forward all credit will go to Wenger.
proudkev,
Remember this from the usual suspects:
“Any idiot can see what is wrong with Arsenal and the solutions”
I guess AW can’t see what they see because he isn’t an idiot.
I don’t know if any of the regulars can remember a suggestion from a rabid Wenger critic late in 2010. This genius suggested that Arsenal put a player by each of the post when dealing with free kicks. This isn’t a joke or a tongue in cheek comment. He was giving ‘tactical’ advice on how to stop us from conceding from free kicks. He wondered why he could see such an obvious tactic and Wenger couldn’t.
When other Untolders unload on him for how moronic his idea was, he tried to walk it back but it was too late. He stopped commenting here not long after because every time he moans about Wenger being clueless I GLEEFULLY shoved his comment in his face and told him to shut up 🙂
Although Tony’s article on the matter was met by some indignation, I totally agree that if you haven’t got a know-how of a field, you should be careful about criticising those who are veterans of that field.
There is a major flaw in this article
The reason Mr wenger is losing control at the club is that he doesnt deligate, he is a total control freak and arsenal have let him , we are all complicit. Fact is that real genius knows when to accept help..
Wenger literally controls everything, players in and out , wages, grass, kits , training methods injury recovery(until this season)
So while at most other clubs i would agree with the sentiment of what you are saying but ironically at arsenal the point isnt relevant.
Now arsenes life is football, to the degree where he can not be wrong. He hates people challenging him, look at arshavin after he spoke to the press, barely played again. Makes you wonder what Lukas has been saying around the place..
No one can succeed with out delegation. Wenger, clearly is no exception..
He has been asked to be manager coach, mentor , final say on player sales , decides whether players are fit to play.. Now i dont think he can relinquish control of any aspect of our club, therefore he will fail, in my opinion anyway
Proud
Noone is denying we have a very talented squad but with out solid defensive tactics we are screwed..
Since fergie figured out how to beat us every single manager does the same, Arsene doesnt adapt to new things , he is dogmatic to a damaging extreme..
Life is about change and adapting to new things, nobodies ideas are concrete truth, they will always be adapted or shown to be wrong entirely… This is how the human race are discovering the secrets of our universe,
Without Einstein we wouldnt understand space time, but he was wrong about many many things..
Even if wenger was the greatest football manager of all time, he has to accept that things change , the perameters change, and one must adapt to these changes.
Finding out that arsenal only send a edited highlights pack of each game to the players that they can choose or choose not to watch is incredible..
I cant believe that a man like wenger is refusing to adopt modern techniques of management considerring that was his whole ethos when he arrived…
Will his ego allow him to adapt, im starting to think it wont
The more his ideas get challenged the more desperate and rude he is becoming,,
Slating Merson like he did was not something wenger of even 3 years ago would ever ever have done
He is starting to lose his grip and part of me thinmks this next 2 seasons could be a horror show where we see the slow decline of a legend destroyed by ego
Ferguson was anything but a “control freak” then…what a LOAD OF SHIT!
MadeToLoveMagic
November 14, 2014 at 2:42 pm
can i ask you? did arsenal as a football have any idea how to place itself in the industry without wenger ?
i also like owning bars but i have no idea how to run them ..so i might as well hire a maitr, specialist….
as for wenger and modern techniques ..thats laughable..the game as you know it today..this high class science…is his making
so ..recognising germany as the one to carry the mantle after spain and going for their players is not proff for you that he adapts?
you whole comment is flawed. sorry.
Slating Merson like he did was not something wenger of even 3 years ago would ever ever have done
lol fuck that clown ..he is still mad wenger kicked his alcoholic gambling cocaine ass out the club
he makes a living pissing on arsenal via cameras .. and ultimately wenger is right. how many clubs has merson managed and what has he achieved?
“Life is about change and adapting to new things, nobodies ideas are concrete truth, they will always be adapted or shown to be wrong entirely… This is how the human race are discovering the secrets of our universe”
o_O
I see massive confusio there
maybe its the rest of football that need to adapt to wenger’s sporting principles instead of promoting a culture of cuntism in sports…just saying…
but yeah…why do the right thing ? there is more money to be made the other way…. 😉
Hunter,,
Its not the point if merson is right or wrong its the fact that wenger reacted the way he did. He used to have that “you can say what you want” attitude and greeted criticism with no more than a knowing smile. Now he is biting more than a hungry hippo..
“as for wenger and modern techniques ..thats laughable..the game as you know it today..this high class science…is his making””
dude again irrelevant, as i said all ideas are eventually challenged or disproven. You have to role with change. Einstein as i said helped us understand how time and space and motion work together but he still thought the universe was static and hadnt even come close to thinking about things on a quantum scale..
So Einstein may have invented a new way of thinking but if he was till alive he would have been forced to review and adapt his ideas. If he was alive today im sure he would have adapted his ideas however revolutionary at the time to newer modern ideas that yes he helped create but without the willingness to bend he would just look like a stubborn old egotistical fool way passed his best..
You could say the same about arsene.. He doesnt use modern techniques, he is not reinventing himself at all. He is stuck in his dogmatic views because the worked once.
If people hadnt challenged the ideas of people once great the human race would be static, much like the universe Einstein THOUHGHT we lived in. We now know the universe is expanding, not only expanding but speeding up..
sorry for my awful spelling !
I posted this link on a previous article here on UA…but think its pertinent in it showing the influence Mr.Wenger has had in our performance in PL History:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_records_and_statistics#mediaviewer/File:92-14_prem_history.png
“Its not the point if merson is right or wrong its the fact that wenger reacted the way he did”
why? why do you give any idiot immunity to say whatever they want without consequences? i would react the same way if i were fed up of idiots TELLING me how to do my job in which i was voted best of the decade and offending me live on camera, perhaps worse. You have to underastand that thsi ocnstant attacks on his character and his work are tiresome. Thsi is a man who has devoted his life’s work to make Arsenal better in every aspect/department so cudos to him for being proud of his work and committed to his plans/principles. It takes a lot of strength to do that. Merson is just trash….
‘dude again irrelevant, as i said all ideas are eventually challenged or disproven. You have to role with change’
and how are wenger’s ideas challenged or disproved exactly? is it with kickrush and neander-ball which is allowed to go unpunished or the ‘hard earned’ cash of russian and arab oilgarchs ?
As for einstein……he is small league…i suggest you search properly academics and go find out who his teacher/mentor was. 😉
On average we have finished 2nd in the PL since Mr. Wenger entered AFC!!! Bettered ONLY by Cheating/Ferguson/PGMOL etc…
He doesnt use modern techniques, he is not reinventing himself at all. He is stuck in his dogmatic views because the worked once.
ehmm would that be the techniques and methods that brought arsenal doubles, unbeaten season , set new records and reached european finals ?
LOL….i guess arsenal had rich history and experience of how to do such things before wenger showed them the way huh?
Prior to this backward thing manager (according to you anti-Arsenal/Wenger ‘experts) arriving, Arsenal would have averaged a 27th place on that chart!!!! I guess Mr.Wenger doesn’t look to the future at all ehhhh?!!!! 🙂
Had Mr.Wenger not arrived and STAYED as long as he has (much to the disappointment of our enemies)…we would have been possibly been flirting if not in bed with relegation (SEVERAL TIMES) together with the likes of Birmingham City!!
You Merson-TYPES, should thank your lucky stars that this man (Wenger) has graced our club and done/doing what he has/is WITHOUT CHEATING, our underhand-bad sportsmanship, all the while putting us on a totally higher level then what we (older guys) had become very used to.
Hunter, really are you incapable of being objective at all..
Wengers ideas are being disproved because we are being shown to be very NAIVE in the way we play.. Wengers principles are to let players essentially dictate how the team plays. He gives them all a collective responsibily for the whole team. thats fine, and when it works it works , but when it doesnt then the players need someone to come in and say ok that didnt work, lets try again , a different way. Thats what im talking about,, having the humility to know when something isnt working and try to change it.. Arsenal dont even play flowing football at the moment , they are one of the most boring clubs to watch in the prem at this present moment. That is unless we play teams who are so open that we can play as we want. Well guess what, every half decent manager knows how to beat arsenal now, its getting worse. This isnt wengers skill thats at fault its his refusal to adapt like all great people should, especially in a field so quickly developing as football.
All those glories you speak of are over a decade old and yes his methods worked then but i think youve missed the point.
If smaller teams are now beating us because they study the way we play and come up with cogent ideas on how to win against our system.
We dont do that , we just let the players go out there in the same system week after week after week after week. Wenger never surprises us anymore and i mean never.. Thats why the only word to describe him dogmatic, a genius maybe but like i said, real genius is knowing when you have to accept hep and adapt..
excuse me, i know about Einstein and who his mentor was, please dont be patronising just because you cant make a cogent argument against what im saying. I was using Einstein as a comparison , and unless you want to refute that comparison in a constructive way then please refrain from petty insults.
And id like to say finally that i spend maybe 2 years religiously defending arsene over on le grove. Ive done more defending of him than id wager you have by 10 times, for all the same reasons you say.
But arsene of the last 2 years is impossible to defend, his decisions bizaare his dealing with press bizaare, everything is so not what i thought he would ever be, but he is. Hes damaging his legacy to a point only a few will remember the good times. Mark my words, either he adapts, starts changing up the team to suit opponents, starts using better defensive tactics to help us win games, or he leaves arsnenal in a dark cloudy way. MARK. MY.WORDS
“…our underhand-bad…” = OR underhand-bad…
Or you Merson-Types can go and support (PLEASE DO…not that I call what you are – supporters) another club…fickle as you are.
objective with what? ARSENAL ?
is it wenger who is naive or the players ?
are you telling me that the footballers who are professionals and been playing this game since age 7 dont know what to do when they are 3-0 ahead?
i didnt hear you moan when the same methods were applied on the pitch by world cup winners and world class players . Guess what …you aint got that callibre of players any more. You dont have the creame de la creame of a once in a lifetime generation like we had with say vieira henry pires. Even the germans you have now..they are not lahm neur and shcweinsteiger… 😉
and why do you refuse to blame the players? do they not get paid on time? what is their job again?
” Ive done more defending of him than id wager you have by 10 times”
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
excuse me, i know about Einstein and who his mentor was, please dont be patronising just because you cant make a cogent argument against what im saying. I was using Einstein as a comparison
well you shouldnt…einstein has no relation to our discussion.
the universe might be complicated but football not so much.
managers train and players win games…once past that line its up to the players to get it right. the manager can only sit back like a spectator like the rest of us and hope those little shits do as they do in training.
if you think this is basketball, a sport, where the coach is directly involved in the game ( or american football) then you are mistaken. you cant call a time out in football and reorganise….. if it goes to shit thats it…bring on the next game.
Einsteins inventions (at least one) could ultimately be the distraction of humanity…interesting that a comparison is made by those who want our club to follow such ideas and district football.
>destruction
>destruct
excuse my spell check 🙂
“Arsene of the last two years is impossible to defend”
Now wait a minute…is that the Arsène who brought Arsenal most points in the calender year 2013?
is that the Arsène who put Arsenal on top for most part of the season 2013-2014?
Is the person who did this impossible to defend?
yeah, right of course how could I forget…we lost to Swansea. Out! OUT! OUT I TELL YA!!
😉
Arsène who helped Arsenal lose the FAC and CS?
@WalterBroeckx
November 14, 2014 at 4:27 pm
🙂
Walter , yes thats the same arsene
We were top of the league 128 days and we came fourth and most of us predicted would happen. Go back to christmas last season on le grove and most predicted the collapse. He flogged flogged flogged the team already light on players last season and we could all see what would happen.
He A) could motivate the team when needed
B) tactically tighten the team when needed
c) rotate the squad when needed
So yeah that same arsene is the arsene i cant defend anymore because everyone could see how last season was going to pan out because arsene like arsenal these days are so painfully predictable
and hunter if you really cant see how einstein related to our argument id ask you to re read what ive written
Walter
As a said arsenes free and easy approach to management is great when it works and the team is pumping but when the cracks start to appear thats when he needs to adapt, motivate etc. I fear he just doesnt do that..
I remember one time Walcott commented on the manager putting a rocket up the team, it was almost like he was willing him to do it some more
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/15/arsene-wenger-arsenal-theo-walcott
The same Le Grove claiming Diaby is injures again…??? How does Le Grove come up with these things??
damn… *injured*
Le Grove = a platform for humans that can only come up with single liners and that make absolutely no sense!!!
Madetolove magic.I appreciate your attempts to support your argument without resorting to abuse. You make some ‘assumptions’ that I need to ask you to clarify if that is okay? I have heard some of these before but nobody has ever quoted a source.
1. You state: “The reason Mr wenger is losing control at the club is that he doesnt deligate, he is a total control freak and arsenal have let him”
Where is the source for this please?
How do you ‘know’ he is losing control?
How do you know Wenger is a control freak?
How do you know he does not delegate?
2. You state: “Wenger literally controls everything, players in and out , wages, grass, kits , training methods injury recovery(until this season)
How do you know this? Source please.
I suspect the above is the recycled, repetitive nonsense that we regularly hear by those firmly entrenched in the Wenger Out camp.
3. You state: “All those glories you speak of are over a decade old and yes his methods worked then but i think youve missed the point”
Why do you think the last ten years have been different?
Did anything happen in those ten years to make it ‘harder’ for Arsenal to compete or is it all Arsene Wengers fault?
This gets my goat. You, like most Wenger detractors, appear to be ignoring the changes that happened in the last ten years and do not appear to be being very fair. You are applying no weighting to the argument. Now I fully accept that being Wenger Out means you have to deny the stadium as an achievement, deny the impact the Russians money made, deny the impact the Arabs money made and most importantly deny the restrictions we had in place at the same time! I know these things are not allowed to be mentioned without derision. They are valid points, that cannot be denied or ignored.
In the period pre-stadium, pre Oil and pre-restrictions, we never finished lower than 2nd. We even went a season unbeaten.
Post stadium we only 3rd and 4ths.
Now me, I look into the reasons and it appears blindingly obvious why things have changed, the evidence is there, as cited above. You cannot ignore the effect these episodes had and just say ‘he lost it in ten years’ without making allowances. In fact, I would argue he’s created a bloody miracle. Asked to make money on player sales, selling your best players and trying to compete against oil men to me seems like reasonable mitigating circumstances. I don’t know many managers that would have hung around to work under those conditions.
Last season we won the FA CUP and Community Shield. I appreciate that Wenger Outs have decided to remove all credit for that from Arsene Wenger, apparently the only reason he won those trophies was because it was ‘only Hull’ and Man City ‘weren’t interested’. This is how pathetic it gets.
I am happy to accept that Arsene Wenger has made mistakes and would be pleased to debate some of those. My comments over the last few days hi-light those.
However, I am prepared to acknowledge that I am no expert. I have no experience managing a team outside of Sunday league football. I have never negotiated a players contract or dealt with agents. I have no scouting experience, I am no medical or fitness expert, I have never tried to compete tactically against Europes top Managers. I certainly have never guided a team to an unbeaten Premier League season. So I will not assume that I know best. I don’t. And neither do you.
What I do know is that Arsenal Football Club is a proper football club. It has real history. It gets a rough ride in the media and it always has. It really gets up my nose when I see Arsenal fans also turning on the club, especially when they bandy about ‘assumptions’ as if they are facts, when they are nothing of the sorts.
Great football club with a truly great and loyal manager, which has made some amazing achievements, on and off the field, under Arsene Wenger.
@proudkev
November 14, 2014 at 5:52 pm
“I suspect the above is the recycled, repetitive nonsense that we regularly hear by those firmly entrenched in the Wenger Out camp.”
Yes and I am sure its from NON Arsenal supporters…just OUT THERE!!!
well thought out and reasoned,ProudKev,thanks for taking the time. I think a certain sector will only be happy when AW’s gone though.
“Sally Pally” if your reading this please come back on to UA I would like to read your thoughts on things at the moment.
Made to love magic…..where is your objectivity? you are selling the same old ¨snake oil¨ and regurgitating the same old,worn-out, unprovable opinions most AAA blind mice vomit at us every time they come on here. Proudkev has asked for clarifications, all very rational, completely reasonable and clearly too much for you to handle.
Well done Proudkev!!!
In answer to the original question about who will replace Wenger, here are my observations based on how the Club tends to do things in concert with Wenger:
1)We can be CERTAIN that this issue has been discussed when Wenger signed his newest contract extension.
2)We can be equally certain that Wenger has suggested a shortlist of candidates that he would like to see be approached in his final phase with AFC.
3) We can be reasonably certain that he has made contingency plans in case of his illness, incapacitation or demise, so that the transition will be relatively smooth and painless. My guess is that Bould will act as interim manager until a replacement is found.
4) My gut feeling is that the Club has made clandestine enquiries to some of the top coaches/managers in the world and may already have a tentative agreement in place with their preferred candidate. this is the way they handle transfers and is typical of the long-term succession planning every big enterprise needs to do.
5)Not everyone could replace Wenger and carry the Club to glory as he has done but here are a few criteria a new manager would need to respect, imho:
* Be ready to show loyalty and remain with AFC through thick and thin…AFC know what doing a tottenham means,
* Be similar in man-management style to Wenger,
* Have a long record of success and a winning attitude,
* Be at ease with the media and the fans, regardless of their occasional turgid attitudes,
* Have class, elegance and culture as well as speak a few languages and be culturally sensitive,
* Have a proven eye for talent-spotting and player development, particularly with the youth and older players,
* Be in harmony with the Board and the owner(s) points of view,
* Be willing to share duties with his defensive,keeping and attacking coaches and to form a strong team with common aims and approaches.
Thanks Kenneth. As I often say to my wife; I apologise as I didn’t mean to go so long…!
They do wind me up though with their assumptions and the repetitive rubbish. They assume any replacement would come in and get us instant success, whereas the rest of us know otherwise. Look at Man Utd and what’s happened there. The look at Spurs, a new manager every other season.
Proud kev
firstly id like say, that i have been a huge arsene wenger fan, huge. I used to spend hours and hours of my life defending him to the point where my username was banned from le grove and i was accused of being actually paid by the club to defend wenger.. So i have no interest in hearing the arguments about the stadium, yes it is an acheivment. I have no interest in hearing about russian and arab money, yes it has made a difference.. but wenger has become obbsessed with this miracle you speak of
so obsessed that he now will not go to the lengths the other teams have to aquire players even though that was meant to be the point of the stadium, so we can compete. And we can compete.. The squad is always defifcient, always even though it doesnt have to be, he leaves holes in it that he doesnt want to fill because he hates spending money, its so obvious, his ego is so out of control the more the world tells him to do something the less likely he will to do it..
even ozil was a last minute thing, we sell sell sell our players and dont replace them, we never replaced song, we havent replaced vermaelen, we havent replaced van persie. It took 2 years to replace fab and now wenger plays him on the wing.
Wenger wont be told, remember arshavin? spoke out against the wenger regime, never played again.
the players know there is no plan. Sir chips recently said that there is no plan, and they just keep quiet about wenger. That shows that wenger has a major sway over even the highest at the club.
“How do you ‘know’ he is losing control?” because he is insulting journos and his ex players, that is not a wenger thing to do. The current players are coming out and saying the football is poor this year and the training not up to standard (mertesacker) ,
We know wenger makes all the decisions at the club, he said he would resign if usmanov was on the board and guess what no usmanov
Wenger has ultimate control of the club, he clearly decides price as he is always saying about market values..
the clues are their for you if you take of the wenger glasses and look.
I have never seen wenger so on the edge a break down as he is now. He is saying increasingly aggressive things, he even faced up to Maureen , wenger is starting to crack imo..
By the way just as you ask me to “prove” what im saying is true, can you “prove” that it isnt? NO? didnt think so
there is more evidence of wenger being a control freak than not. He controls player sales , gazidis is always talking about what arsene sees as value may not be the same as you or I
YOu dont have to believe me but the cracks are starting to appear and wenger needs to learn to adapt defensively
Ian wright said the other week that steve bould isnt being listened to by wenger, again only a control freak would hire a no.2 only to ignore him. Maybe thats why he kept mr passive rice for so long.
Stuart robson thinks its wengers lack of structure and defense that is causing these problems http://www.london24.com/sport/football/clubs/arsenal/exclusive_former_arsenal_midfielder_says_wenger_and_bould_must_accept_blame_for_gunners_problems_1_3846287
oh thank you for defending arsene wenger…mind if i ask what wenger needs defending from ?
wenger has proved his worth my friend…that you choose to scrutinise the seasons where arsenal had to focus on financial survival to moan about ‘modern techniques ‘ and titles just shows how clueless you are about the club and what it aimed to do and the manner in which it aimed to achieve its targets.
of course wenger and every big manager have their ‘stubborn issues’ ..OFF COURSE ..they wouldnt be as high as they are in their carreers if they werent stubborn
look mate i think you dont understand football, or arsenal or the environment of the epl too well to have such definite opinions on wenger’s managerial abilities.
of course he will have ultimate control of the club…he built it..he showed the way.
if wenger is on the edge is because he is realising that arsenal fans are stupiud fickle pigshit who would rather listen to the media and a bunch of other idiots instead of supporting the man who brought this club its greatest ever era.
in a period where you should be facing relegation really….he kept you in the champions league and flirted with major honours…with denislon eboue and almunia ffs… so say thank you for once in your life and try to realise that the period of 1998-2004 was UNHEARD OF for a club like arsenal.
taht the board chose to use that era to launch their stadium move is not wenger’s problem…in fact you should thank your lucky stars you had a manager to pull it off
when you reach a stage where you can field vieieras and henrys again and you dont win trophies thats the only time you can complain.
stuart robson? hahahah ok mate..just how old are you ? hahahaaaaa….
Going back to the earlier post from our Man City friend, Martinez…..doing ok, but needs to go a long way to be seen as a candidate to replace our greatest……as do most!
Hard to even begin to think who can replace Wenger
MadeToLoveWenger you said I think. To think requires a brain with intelligence. Sadly you appear to have neither. When you have achieved a back garden, a family and an income for more than 20 employees, you can begin to think about Wengers approach to football. Sadly you have more gas than a ball and less intelligence than a blade of grass.
To prove your intelligence explain this
Untold Arsenal: Arsenal News; Supporting the club, the players and the manager
“I believe the target of anything in life should be to do it so well that it becomes an art.” A Wenger
Its been a while I posted anything – not only have I been busy, I just tried to read all comments from every post since I last commented and I have the surest inkling that its difficult to change dogged opinionated lunatics who think they know so much about football to criticize AW. Genius or not, that man is a believer in getting things done the right way – The only thing I’ve become acquitted with is that the back door looks shorter and I don’t blame those who prefer taking it coz it pays but for a time and we as fickle mortals love instant gratification but I also believe that post ‘the objective of anything in life should be to do it so well, it becomes an art’ … Only those that think like that can support such a dogmatic, tactless, stubborn and clueless manager as Arsene. So I don’t blame anyone who can’t reason like him – we come across them more in our lifetimes.
Chapmans ghost, I have no doubt that most managers around the world know of the AAA but not by name. The PL is shown globally and most people in football watch some of the PL. The sight on TV of an idiot holding a sign behind AW saying ‘spend’ etc and the aggressive shouting at AW are clear to see. AW is highly respected and generally liked in the world of football (probably less so here unfortunately) and any manager that saw that will know we have an awful lot of ‘twats’ in our home crowd. Coincidentally MaureenO may be the darling of the PL but he’s generally disliked within world football (respected but disliked).
@Andy Mack, I hardly think that some clown with a spend spend spend banner is going to deter any manager coming to Arsenal. All managers deal with some dissent among fans, that’s part of the job. Look at the anger of Newcastle fans at Pardew and he hasn’t walked away. Arsenal are a highly attractive club for virtually every manager, I find Tony’s continual obsession with the “aaa” and their influence tantamount to scaremongering.
@OMG Arsenal, whilst I admire your staunch defence of the manager and the club I note that all your five points are mere conjecture and just saying “certain” or then qualifying it with “reasonably” in another claim does not prove you know any more than Made To Love Magic. You both make assumptions. As for point 5, all very laudable but there’s no proof that those who appoint the next manager will observe all those points.
The problem isn’t just a twat with a banner. There was much more than that and it was all over the news globally. That was just the headline. The difference between Pardew and AW is that europeans think Pardew is a ‘little Englander’ but they know AW is a global manager. They know and respect him and cannot understand why any real arsenal fans don’t worship the ground he walks on. Obviously they don’t always see the short term issues but they’d expect us to worship them if they’d got us into the CL for 5 consecutive years, let alone 15+.