Stoke 5 Arsenal 0.

By Tony Attwood

Following a football match at home by getting summaries from Sky every five minutes is not really very good for your health.  Or at least I am not too sure it is very good for my health.

The panellists on the show were bubbling with glee and joy at the demise of Arsenal, shouting at their microphones, screaming and bouncing. 1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 4-0.

Yes they told us it was 4-0, and it was they said 4-0, absolutely, ha ha ha, ho ho, except that eventually they had to cover their confusion.  But at that moment when I stupidly believed them, I thought back to Stoke 5 Arsenal 0.

And I thought of that not because of any pleasure at that game (how could I have had?) but rather pleasure at the overall outcome of the season.

My point in going back to it is not that the events of the year in which Arsenal lost 5-0 are going to be replicated – simply because history doesn’t normally work like that.  But rather because in the days of Stoke 5 Arsenal 0 there was less attempt to judge everything by one game, or even half a season.

September 26 1970:  Stoke 5 Arsenal 0

Arsenal entered this match third in the league, two points behind Leeds United (in the era of two points for a win).

After nine games Arsenal had won five, drawn three and lost one.  Perhaps more to the point going away to Stoke City, Arsenal had just won three in a row, beating Tottenham 2-0, Burnley 3-1, and West Brom 6-2.

Arsenal were not in the habit of letting in five – indeed the last time this happened was with Blackpool 5 Arsenal 3 on 16 October 1965.

But coincidentally the win against West Brom of 6-2 was the first time Arsenal had scored six since beating Sheffield United just three weeks after that defeat to Blackpool.  That victory was on 6 November also in 1965.   Surely no one thought that having scored six for the first time since 1965 they would now let in five for the first time since 1965.   But so it was.

18,153 turned up to watch – a poor attendance given all the talk in the press about Arsenal’s new exciting style and their exciting team.   Arsenal had strolled past Lazio in the second leg of their Fairs Cup game – and with Arsenal having let in only seven goals in the nine League games thus far a 2-0 win seemed more likely than anything else.

In goal there was Bob Wilson who was getting the plaudits not just for his ability to dive at the feet of oncoming forwards and get out uninjured but also because he was so interviewable.

Yet the reality was that the score-line could easily have been worse, with Stoke missing a couple of simple chances.  It was in short the collective bad day for the defence, who spent the game giving the ball away again whenever they did manage to get possession.

The fourth and fifth goals epitomised the problems – Wilson went for a bouncing ball, which really could have gone anywhere, but it bounced to Jimmy Greenhoff who had the simplest of chances to convert, and the fifth came from a shot that Wilson parried straight to Alan Bloor who scored.

The press felt the mighty had truly fallen and Arsenal knew that all the plaudits they had gained from beating Lazio just three days before, now counted for nothing.   Winning the league was not on anyone’s mind after this display.


So, to move on, but keeping the spirit of the press in 1970 and Sky in 2014, just how awful is Arsene Wenger as a manager at the moment?

I have tried to put a bit of analysis into this, really just for my own information at first, but having done it I thought I would share it.

The question I was asking myself was, can we say that Arsenal have got worse and worse over the years as some pundits like to say, or is it that other clubs – particularly Man C and Chelsea with their infinite wealth, have got better and better.

Certainly we saw today one comparison – at best Chelsea are in the same league as George Graham who won the title with Arsenal losing just one game.  But not in the same league as Mr Wenger who won the league with Arsenal losing no games.

But that’s a bit of a feeble measure, so here’s another one… the percentage of wins in the league that the manager gets.

We know from the figures on the Arsenal History Blog that Mr Wenger is by far the most successful Arsenal manager ever in terms of win percentages.

But how is he doing over time?

Mr Wenger has won the league three times with Arsenal and in those season got a win percentages of 60%, 68% and 68%.

This compares with George Graham’s percentages of 58% and 63% in his league winning seasons.  And to give a true perspective it compares with a pre-Wenger low of 31% 1994/5 and 44% in 1995/6.   So we are doing much, much, much better than in the five years before Mr Wenger joined the club when win percentages in the 30s and 40s happened year after year.

So we might hope that a winning percentage of 60% or more might either win the league, or at least get one close enough so that the fans would be happy that it was a near miss, and with a slightly better run of the ball, next season could be the one.

In fact, aside from his three league winning seasons Mr Wenger has got a 60% or more match winning percentage five times, the most recent being 2013/14 when it was 63%.   In fact in seven of the last 13 years he has got a winning percentage of 60% or more.

Now this starts to suggest that it is not that Arsenal have slipped back to lower standards – rather it shows that Arsenal have in the last 13 years been doing better than ever before in the club’s history.  We are miles ahead of where we were when Mr Wenger took over, and regularly operating at a level which in the last 15 years has often been enough to win the league.

The reason we have not won the league more often  is that the league is far less balanced than it used to be.   Money has flowed into a handful clubs – and while that has included Arsenal, Arsenal have spent much of that money building a new stadium which clubs like Man City, Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool, Man U and others have not done.  Added to which Man C and Chelsea have each had periods of spending money at a rate that Arsenal could never have dreamed of.

In fact this century, we are operating at the highest level of win percentages that the club has ever had since it entered the league in 1893.  That it is still not enough shows the need for the club to go further, but I still suspect that expecting this to happen by changing the manager is misleading.  It is far more complex than that.

Of course Arsenal needs to do more to overcome the clubs that have had the billions poured into them, but what we need to do is complex and not as simple as “sack him, bring in someone else.”

What we absolutely need is a manager who over time can deliver not just 63% of the league games played as wins but a higher percentage than that.  Personally other than Wenger I can’t see who could come anywhere close at this time.  Not every season of course – but then even Man C and Chelsea with all their money don’t achieve it every season.




103 Replies to “Stoke 5 Arsenal 0.”

  1. Then I Think My Arsenal Need Devine Intervention As To Whether It Is A Change Of Policy Or Manager But Whatever May Be The Case We Totally Need Some Relief Now

  2. Wenger has certainly not become a bad manager, not by any stretch. And he is up against a lot. What he has done at the moment, taken a big gamble not signing defensive cover, he has underestimated injuries and it has blown up in his face somewhat. He needs to rectify this, and get back on track and I am sure he will. Keep the faith

  3. Despite our healthy bank balance, full attendances, sponsorships and advertising revenue, envied by many, it is a fact of life that we cannot match the “sugar daddy” clubs like Chelski and Man Citeh whose war chests are bottomless and wages bills are astronomical.
    The FFP Regulations should rein them in somewhat but their legal whizzkids will no doubt find loopholes to circumvent them.
    Meanwhile Arsenal FC will soldier on within their means with the odd trophy from time to time, via home grown talent and judicious transfers.
    The Club will never succumb to the lure of those with dubious loot to invest. It is not Arsenal’s way and long may it continue.

  4. 2 clean sheets and everyone went on about the fact the the job is done and bang! We make horrific mistakes. Which mind u is nothing new. Would the invincible back 4 make similar mistakes week after week? Ask yourself. And they like the pervious lot were coached by AW. What I just cannot understand is what we have fallen so far off, I mean defensively. I will go on & on about the defence as that’s the foundation and that needs to be solid. U can score 4 or 5 if you want, but if you let in one more, u loose. Not to mention that we struggle to score, or its takes a score like yesterday to wake us up. I know that we have injuries but like on of the fans commented, is it wise to go into the league & rest of the cups with the defence that we have?

  5. Tony:

    Arsene Wenger has been a a great man for this club but no history & stats can mask the poor team selection & limp 1st half performance. I was there yesterday & it was painful to watch the total lack tactics & not having the right players to match the opposition.

    Players can be blamed or used as an excuse for mistakes but when it is happening to often then as with any business, management have to be looked at & questioned.

    Arsene looks tired. I personally think his intentions are good but his task is taking it’s toll on him & the team.

  6. Huh. A free translation from some media report –

    “Arsenal are sinking, Stoke were 3-0 at HT, and were actually supposed to be 4-0 had the linesman INCORRECTLY called for an offside that never was… Then Arsenal scored through a Flamini DIVE (!?) … but resilient Stoke were good for the victory”.


    And on to another subject – Arsene after the match. It is clear that he is trying to work on the defensive stuff, when people say “Arsene doesn’t do defense” they are just talking shit. Something is not working, obviously, but to say the he is oblivious to it is a joke.

    And yes, in my humble unprofessional opinion we just want LESS than other teams and this is pretty much what happens when somebody else wants something more than you. BTW this is, also in my humble unprofessional opinion, what drives Sanchez into very selfish plays and general discontent with his team mates.

    These things are visible. Almost tangible. When we played WBA it wasn’t a great game but it was visible we WANTED – sticking out a leg, putting in a shoulder, keeping it tight. Nothing of that sort yesterday during the first half. I am sorry but if there is just one complaint that I would make is that Arsene needs to kick some serious butt in the dressing room (if he hadn’t done so by now).

  7. The ref been awful yesterday. Said that, our defense doesn’t deserve the name. A 6ft 6 defender who can’t jump and can’t run. From the first minute the team has not been up for it. They knew what to expect in Stoke and still didn’t challenge tackle or fight.
    So who is responsible for that? Why do we have to play 2 19 year old defenders at Stoke? Its the managers job to plane the season and to prepare the team. Yet he can’t see the obvious anymore, he can’t get his tactics right. He sold Vermalen, Sagna and gave Jenkinson away. Brought in Debuchy and Chambers. But our defense needed strengthening in numbers and quality! We are crying out for a defense midfielder for years but all we got is strikers and small midfielders. Wenger is standing still and others catched up with him years ago. The longer he stays the worse it gets. And brainwashed sites like untold… I just feel sorry for you! You live in the past.

  8. Good article Tony, it’s very sad that it may be forced upon Arsene to resign, he has integrity and I don’t believe he would carry in if he felt he had lost the vast majority of the fans support, he very nearly has by the way, he is a great man and has done wonders for our club. My greatest frustration is that we went into a season with Arteta and flamini as our holding mids and every pundit, journalist opposing fan and almost all Arsenal fans knew we needed to address this, song was available for one, Arsene trusted Arteta who can do a great job if we play burnley at the emerates and have 75% possession but is simply not good enough to win leagues, it could and should have been addressed and only one man is responsible for that.

  9. P.s Tony glad you didn’t try to blame ref, they helped us last week at West Brom and this week Taylor was shit though he did chalk out Stoke goal and give us dubious pen.

  10. Arsenal didn’t beat Burnley 3-1 that season.
    Arsenal have two billionaires to Chelsea’s one.

  11. If, like me you some of you moaners had endured the managements of
    George Swindin, Billy Wright, etc through the 1953-1970 period enjoying episodes like losing a league cup final to SWINDON and the Spuds doing the double, then you might realise that at this moment in time we have one of the GREAT
    managers at the helm. A man of massive integrity, and when he has done what he has set out to do will with dignity depart. Till then I for one am happy he’s the Boss.

  12. I think everyone has to take the blame for that performance: the players, the manager, the coaches, and the board. Arsene said he sent the team out knowing they needed to be sharp and they conceded within seconds. A lack of defenders (through injury and through there simply being a lack) means we are playing with a patched up back four. Some of that is down to luck but as Arseblog points out this morning, it is mostly down to planning.

    I accept we can’t buy any old international CB we want but I don’t accept we could not have brought in a decent experienced defender – especially when we knew Vermaelen was on his way (yes I know TV is injured and would not have played, but we knew he and Sagna were off). We needed to replaced the guys going out (and we did with CC and MD) AND add depth to the squad.

    That we didn’t is down to the manager, board, scouting network and Mssrs Gazidis and Law.

    It’s just 3 points though, Liverpoor drew, Spuds drew, Evertoffee lost and Southampton or Mancs will drop points Monday and the Invincibles are still the only invincibles in the modern age (thanks Pardew!) , so chin up Gooners,I’ll be there again on Saturday cheering not booing

  13. As ever, the voice of sense and reason black sheep.
    Think there are a few at the club who need a rocket up their backsides and I don’t mean rookie defenders and keepers. Who ever is responsible for insufficient defence cover is costing the team points.

  14. Biased article again. Please go read arseblog, who actually is pro wenger and arsenal. He sums it up perfectly in the below sentence…..

    We can dress it up any way you like, but the buck stops with the man who stopped spending before his squad was complete in the summer, and this is the not at all unexpected consequence of that. And to hear the manager suggest that there were ‘a lot of positives‘ after the game is mind-boggling. We got turned over with ease by Stoke and he thinks there are positives?

    I’m all for the idea of not railing angrily in the immediate aftermath of a game, but some admission that the performance was not good enough would be welcome. It doesn’t have to be furious and incoherent, but a little mea culpa, a bit of simple understanding after a game like that would be something to cling to this morning. Instead you can’t help feel that there’s no intent to accept responsibility for what happened. Instead we hear there were positives.

    There were not. We lost badly. We played badly. We have reacted badly. Arsene has managed badly. And with a lot of football to play over the next few weeks, it could get worse.

  15. Ehnjay, I agree with you that we need a divine intervention to thwart away this curse-like trap that is been hindering Arsenal glory to win the Barclays Premier and the Champions League. Assuming that God Has answered our prayers and Has intervened. The actualisation of the God’s divine intervention is in legs of the Gunners to kick to actualised it. Just imagine the craps of football game the Gunners played at the Britannia yesterday. Is that the way to actualise the God’s divine intervention? If the Gunners have been erroneously thinking that the Barclays Premier and the Champions League titles will be cleaned and dusted and handed over to them on a platter of Gold, they should start having a re-think in their thoughts. The manna were never trown at people’s feet to simply picked and eat. The people have to work for it by running after it and gather it and eat it. That brings to mind for one to ask if the Gunners have the collective ambition to win titles this season. Or they are merely playing for their pay packets and Champions League spot. Thereby causing problems for the boss who has been fighting teeth and nails to make Arsenal win titles by allmeans. If the Gunners are prepared to redeem themselves, they must henceforth stop all this naunsence football game of two legs in and one leg out of football they ‘ve been playing and come of age. Who said it is impossible for the Gunners to win their remaining 23 Barclays Premier League games? I didn’t say so. And the Gunners better not say so. But should believe they can win all the 23 and become Champions with 92 points. We Gooners can be part of the problem a times. Can we? We have been voicing for Bellerin at RB and Bfg&Chambers at CB with Gibbs at LB. 2 no. 19 in the defense line was never going to work against Stoke as we have all seen now. Let me on behalf of all the Gooners tender our unreserved apology to the boss for demanding he plays such a woeful defense line. The boss should please never repeat playing that defense line formation again for any game until Bellerin and Chambers have reached the matured football age of 22 years old. And finally, let the boss please field a strong first team including Sanchez to start the Galatasaray game. I have in the past watched teams got beaten as they did what the boss said he might do for the Gal’ game. Besides, the boss should note that Galatasaray have not won any match in the CL group stages this year. They could mind raising up the level of their game to beat Arsenal even as they are going no where. And even the Gunners chance of topping the table is still on to play for.

  16. when i hear twats talking of why we let van go and sagna i just wonder what planet they come from,is van playing at nou camp?sagna wanted the money,and on top of that we bought a very good defender who was injured duewe to several malicious tackels(debuchy).Do you call players sandwiches which you can buy anywhere on any other given time?i think the refshite wants manure to take up the fourth place but will they? I do think we still have the time and strength to go up to the final of the champions league ,defend the FA cup and take up our fourth position or 3rd and in most chances win it because all the so called big teams are gonna lose several matches soon or later,the only question is will we catch up??

  17. Bob Smith:

    I first started going in mid 60’s & only missed two seasons (late 70’s). Yes the perios you mentioned were barren.

    But times have changed. The game has changed. Using the past with different circumstances IMO is not the correct barometer.

    We are now a supposed major player financially & with resources. 18 yrs for someone in charge and now 65 yr at any major business is probably coming to the end of his shelf life.

    Irrespective of dignity, certain mistakes are being repeated annually even with different playing personnel. No one in this position should be exempt from criticism.

  18. Blacksheep63 – No one is to blame. Football can be different. This game was different but the officiating was corrupt. The FA must ban Adams or be in disrepute irrelevant of Taylors yellow card.

  19. Forget defensive cover, it is impossible to sign enough players to cover the number of contact injuries suffered by the squad.

    Each club is only allowed 25 players.

    Have a look at the defensive problems Utd have had this season,Van Gaal has not been constantly ridiculed for not buying a stack of defenders.

    So,defensively; back off.

  20. Let’s face it Wenger had only one realistic target and that was to get the top four then qualify and be knocked out straight away.

  21. People talking a lot of rubbish on here.

    Yes Wenger could have signed some defenders, defensive midfieldrrs, Fabregas, a top striker in the summer etc

    But he knows how much the referees, the FA, the media, the AAAs do not want and will not allow Arsenal to win the league so it would have been a waste of money. Use your brains and THINK. With Wenger we can come 4th without wasting the money that the referees will demand we waste – that is the corrupt nature of football.

    You saw it yesterday. We’d have won the game comfortably if it weren’t for the ref

  22. yesterday was the first game ive missed in years and im glad i did

    Why on earth did wenger not rotate?????????? Its a joke and the reason that our season is already over

    Why couldnt he use podolski?? CAMpbell??? Rosicky?? WTF>??????

    These players NEED to play , the players wenger NEED a rest

    What the hell is going on??

    How can wenger play players dead on their feet when we have others who can fit in that the point of a damn squad

    Im starting to think that arsene is to blame for a lot of arsenals injury woes of late

  23. Just checking to see that those posters who NEVER show up after Arsenal victories are here in droves to moan, moan and moan some. I am ‘happy’ for you. Enjoy it while it lasts because the previous 3 games must have been hell for you.

    Is there a better way to support your team than to pile on every time things go against them?

  24. Botomme shut the fuck up you crack pot. Winning pathetically by one goal margin and you think we are world beaters again. Wait till you see the crowd turn on this dictator, the nails in the coffin are being tightly strung and soon the tide will overflow this nuisance out of the club

  25. Hemm,

    Struck a nerve there didn’t I?

    You may need to calm down though. You don’t want to waste all your outrage energy on this loss. You could get very very lucky with Arsenal losing next 10 matches and fighting relegation. Then you’ll have something to gleefully cry about.

  26. Magic,most of your questions nobody can answer as nobody here knows, except that Rosicky was injured in training.
    I don’t think there’s anyone here who doesn’t feel angry/irritated about the first half display,even if we see Arsenal FC through a different prism to that of LG, AW did make some immediate changes that had a positive affect on the game,but the Chambers sending off really changed the game.
    As for jon, hate to spoil the party, but he has the same perspective as Peter.

  27. Boo

    im lamenting the lack of rotation

    It leads to injury pile ups

    wenger already said Sanchez is in the red,,, Why wouldnt he rest him and use another squad member? it makes no sense whatsoever

    Wenger,, been breaking players since 2011

  28. Kenneth

    I am a big wenger fan which is why i s get angry of late with some of his decisions

    HE just plays his best 11 week after week after week like he doesnt care about the rest of the squad,, it always leads to injury. We have seen it with Ramsey last season who didnt miss a game until he broke down, giroud, ozil, im sure it wiull happen to sanchez soon if he doesnt get some rest. He did it to wilshere before the injury.. Wenger uses players when sense dictates he should rest them WHY? because he doesnt trust his squad…… Why? who knows,, but wengers lack of rotation is the reason we will never sustain another assult at the league with him at the healm imo,, he never seems to learn, if he made these tiny changes, give his team a chance to recover , rotate properly, then he could win the lot

    btw we only had two defenders missing yesterday,,, shows how threadbare we are in that dept….. come on arsene sort it out,, please

  29. I don’t think win percentages are a good measure of historical comparison between teams, managers, etc. The reason is that the distribution of quality across the league will shift around over time. Some years the best club is head and shoulders above the rest, other years it will be tighter. Some years the bottom half teams are truly dreadful and other years they will be a bit closer to the top.

    The real measure in my opinion is always trophies and on that score Wenger has indeed had a great career at Arsenal, winning a trophy just over every 2 years on average. George Graham, however has a better record, winning 6 trophies in 9 years, including a European trophy.

    As the years have passed and Wengers early successes have not been continued, his record is no longer the best when you consider trophies per year.

  30. It’s a game.

    We lost it, fairly or not.

    Those who are responsible for the team should be left alone to do their jobs whether we believe they are capable or not. It is not up to us whether they get sacked or not.

    Moaning at them makes little sense and little difference but moaning on a blog that isn’t wee bit interested in moaning is both futile and stupid.

    Make one question the sanity of posters who come to Untold to moan every time Arsenal gets a bad result.

  31. Report of scuffle within the fans is bad news, even the so called die hard pro Wenger support is turning. At worst we don’t help ourselves, the management has not addressed the issues which hinder us season after season, who is to blame?

  32. jayramfootball,

    You got your wish yesterday. Arsenal lost, congratulations!

    Now, let’s hope Wenger is sacked by Monday.

    (Nothing you post here matters anymore. We now know who you really are – with evidence)

  33. Chelsea struggled yesterday to cope with the loss of only one frontline player- away- at a Prem ground. They had a reasonablely fair ref and the pitch was not doctored too much. How then were we expected to cope with Stoke- away. Campbell is not frontline yet. Mert is frontline only if surrounded by a full complement of frontliners. We have not got a frontline DM and Cazorla would only be frontline in a child’s playground- or possibly in Spain.

    Well, we nearly did. Ramsey, Ox, Alexis in particular ran their blood to water filling the gaps- and the others did their best. But Arsene has screwed up badly this year. His hope and a fair wind policy has been a wing and a prayer this time. We may recover in the second half but with better and more realistic planning- this could have been our year.

  34. I can’t believe some of the comments, if we are not serious mounting a title challenge then why sign two world-class players ?
    Also why is it every season we fall foul of the same mistakes, the same mistakes the media predict will cost us?

  35. People who watched the whole 90 minutes would know we were denied the chance of a fantastic comeback by that red card- which was very very inconsistent with the rest of the game. The ref could see we were coming back and put a stop to it by giving a red to Chambers for almost NOTHING. Please don’t blame the manager for this. Why can’t we just lose under normal circumstances?? Then we could point fingers properly. Ok Wenger made a mistake in picking his starting 11 but he made FANTASTIC decisions at half -time (for those who think he doesn’t do tactics please do not ignore this) to rectify things and we were denied a sure come back by the referee. Fact. 3 points lost but we’ve learnt a lot from that game.

  36. I truly believe Wenger has fallen disproportionately in love with Barca system, from being tallest and strongest squad we are now among the shortest. Unlike us Barca rotated the players and had like for like in every position, Wenger also forgotten that they have freak in nature called Messi.

  37. I really fail to understand people who focus their attacks on the spending issue. Yes, we could have and should have bought another defender and probably would have been nice to have a solid world class defensive midfielder.

    This is irrelevant when talking about how we looked against Stoke – and not just Stoke. Our squad, even when injured, even when screwed up by refs, is head and shoulders, I repeat if I’m not understood, MILES apart in quality when compared to Stoke, Tottenham, Swansea, Anderlecht, Leicster City, and Hull City. We failed to win against all of those teams, and even lost to Swansea. We have a better team than Everton (which suffer from an even nastier injury crisis) and we did not win. In all of those matches we did not play great football, in some of them quite horrible football to be honest. Man City was one of our best matches and we still gave in a silly goal in the last minute; Manure we missed 208234858917348905721890347 chances and the KGB are just assholes.

    But seriously, if the players don’t want to commit suicide on the pitch, every match, regardless of who the opposition is, then it’s all in vain. I mean it: a team of bloody construction workers like Stoke cannot score 3 goals against us. Cannot. Cannot. Cannot. This is not a “buying” problem of “competing with sugar daddy’s” or “Wenger doesn’t want to spend”. It’s professional players playing like kids and it’s fucking infuriating.

  38. I wasnt surprised.

    Early on in the game, a studs up challenge on Alexis was given foul the other way. Alexis was penalised for being tackled! One hand he lets that go and on the other he books Chambers for what!!!!

    Then later we were denied a chance to take a quick free kick. He looked up and realised that Giroud was one on one with keeper and then pulls back. And he wasnt even booking anyone.

  39. Good points Tommiegun, and certainly in the first half it was kids against the Orcs.Hopefully its now being looked into.

  40. Tony

    ‘The question I was asking myself was, can we say that Arsenal have got worse and worse over the years as some pundits like to say, or is it that other clubs – particularly Man C and Chelsea with their infinite wealth, have got better and better’

    Other clubs have got better and better.

    With the windfall of TV money, other clubs can afford to buy the ‘rejects’ of top European clubs like Barca, Chelsea etc.

    Case in point; Stoke got Bojan for £3M in the Summer, who has been their best player this season and absolutely dominated yesterday.

    You can go team by team in the PL and find players better than what we have in certain positions. This wasn’t the case when Wenger was wining the league last.

    Say what you will about Usmanov and his interview , but he did tell the truth when he said principles are restrictions put on one selves.

    Arsen Wenger doesn’t look at his squad and thinks who’s the best player available for this position I can get or afford , but rather how can I improve the players I have.

    That’s a noble approach if you want to develop players but not if you want to win.

    Loyalty is a wonderful thing in politics or in a marriage , but in football it can hold you back, especially when your competition is Mourinho or LVG.

    Managers like those two come in and look at their squad steely eyed and make necessary changes, while Arsen Wenger gets attached to his players and becomes their father figure.

    Like the old saying goes; ‘sometimes your biggest strength becomes your biggest weakness’.

  41. Johnfrom Wellington:

    Do the FA & Refs force Arsene to make his team defend like a sunday league team ?

    If they do I think we should all arrange a protest meeting ASAP !

  42. This will just go on and on! Arsenal as a club need to do something its so blatant its not even funny anymore!

  43. @ Tom, I disagree.

    Bojan was a huge disapointment at Barca and did very badly at Roma. Actually that’s one thing that you can see is some players just failing to deliver on the big stages, the big teams – look at Nani now. He is the king of Sporting Lisbon. Gervinho is the king of Rome, too. Some players deliver at the bigger stage and some don’t (my best example is Fabrizio Miccoli who was anonymous for Juve and then grew into stardom for Palermo). Other players have 2-3 great years and then just shut off (remember Saviola and Aimar? Where are they now…). So my point is that the truly great players remain great for a long period. When some players suffer a big dip in form, even if they came out of great clubs (Bojan for instance) it’s a big gamble because everybody knows they are totally capable of delivering nothing at all.

    Which goes back to my previous point- talent is just one component. The other two are luck and mentality. You have hugely talented athletes who get totally fucked up due to their shit mentality. Think Balloteli. Think Adriano (the striker). Think Adebayor. Yeah I hate the dude but he is actually the best example of a hugely talented individual whose awful mentality ruined his career.

    The premier league was tough when Arsene used to win. This is my point. So you didn’t have the oil money but you had very strong teams like Manure and Newcastle who used to be good and Blackburn and Leeds. You still had 3-5 strong teams that competed.

    And I think that quality and talent wise we are up there at the top 3. The problem is the mentality.


    This post made me think about mentality and talent and actually a worrying thought crept in.

    We have had quite a few talented footballers coming to play for us over the last few years. They failed horribly: Arshavin is the finest example. Came in as a super star, played amazingly well for 6 months, and then went down the drain. Before him it was Reyes, I remember Gervinho; they were all very, very good players before they came to play for us, they started out to varying degree of success (Reyes and Arshavin were amazing, Gervinho never settled in). Reyes and Arshavin left and never returend to being good. Gervinho is doing amazingly well for Roma now. So there is no real pattern to be observed.

    Is that what’s happening with some of our players? Is our Ozil never going to be the Real Madrid Ozil? Are we going to “ruin” Sanchez as well? What is it?

    BTW it’s happening with many other teams as well, and to even larger extent – just look at the Totts…

  44. ALSO (and sorry for posting so many times) – in my opinion the WORST time we got screwed by a ref was not even in the PL – it was playing Barca, and that totally uncalled for, idiotic, and deliberate yellow card for RVP.

    It was fuckin corrupt as shit, all designed to help Barca the Darlings.

  45. @ARSENAL 13.
    Absolutely. Even by PGMO standards this was a shocker.

    “Say what you will about Usmanov and his interview , but he did tell the truth when he said principles are restrictions put on one selves”.
    I have a certain principle, amongst many others, that I never sexually assault anyone. A restriction indeed. Do you have any problem with that? Or are you ok with molestation?

    @Va Cong
    I agree. It’s time we did something about this. But then you read the various papers, and they hardly mention the atrocious refereeing at all. It makes you wonder if it really is all just futile. Maybe we should just lie down and take our punishment.

    “The beatings will continue until morale improves!”

  46. After the match in his press conference, Wenger was asked about the Chelsea defeat and the Frenchman was not amused in his reply.

    Wenger to media: “Chelsea’s defeat nothing to do with me. You must be disappointed. You told everybody they’d be unbeaten.”

    He suggested that the reporters must have been disappointed because they had spent the entire season so far telling everyone that Chelsea would go unbeaten.

    Say what you like about Wenger, but no one knows how to troll the journos like he does.

  47. @bootoomee

    Not sure why my post would invoke such a strange reaction. I am expressing a view that win percentage is not as important as winning trophies. Both Wenger and Graham have/had good records, but on a trophies/season basis George Graham has a better record. That is just a fact. It does not mean that Graham was a better manager, though in my opinion he was.

  48. Quincy

    ‘I have a certain principle, amongst many others, that I never sexually assault anyone. A restriction indeed. Do you have any problem with that? Or are you ok with molestation?’

    Unless you are posting this from some third world country, I’m pretty sure molestation or sexual assault is a crime punishable by law, unlike strengthening a football club with available funds ,which is what Usmanov was talking about.

    I’m not sure why I’m even responding to this.

  49. Jayram, I think it has to do with the fact that no one likes two-faced people.

    Behold, a small, representative selection of your musings:

    Nov 27, 2014 at 4:13 PM – Bergkamp a Dutch Master: Wilshere out for 3 months
    Nov 28, 2014 at 12:05 PM – Jayramfootball: lol at Wilshere
    Nov 28, 2014 at 12:06 PM – Jayramfootball: good news for the team

    Nov 29, 2014 12:55 PM – Jayramfootball: Every time Ramsey gets the ball I just assume that the move will break down and lose all interest. Possible the worst player in the whole league.

    Nov 29, 2014 at 2:41 PM – Jayramfootball: Ramsey was not just the worst player the field – given his run this season I would say he is Arsenal’s all time worst player now

    Nov 29, 2014 at 2:42 PM – Jayramfootball: The fat dwarf [Cazorla] was ok – apart from the fact he can’t shoot for shit

    Nov 30, 2014 at 5:56 PM – Jayramfootball: Chelsea will win the league unbeaten and Mourinho will have completed his demolition of Wenger

    Nov 30, 2014 at 8:02 PM – Jayramfootball: I would happily take a year or two in the Europa League if it meant getting rid of Wenger – lets face it the CL is just a money making exercise anyway.

    Dec 1, 2014 at 11:39 AM – Jayramfootball: stubborn , arrogant prat [Wenger]

    Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM – Jayramfootball: Giroud would be better off saying “Each game I offer nothing of any value to the team and am only playing because i am French. I need to start working harder to try and mask the fact that i have no other skills.”

    Dec 2, 2014 9:16 PM – Jayramfootball: When you remember that Wenger bought Kallstrom – an old man with a broken back to cover for Ramsey’s injury in Jan who then ended up coming back from injury AFTER Ramsey was fit again – you realise just how clueless and retarded Wenger is.

  50. Tom, if you can’t understand that, then clearly there’s no point in me having a discussion with you.

  51. Jayramfootball

    Didn’t you post on other forums hoping Arsenal get beat ?

    Are for real? WTF?

  52. Dec 3, 2014 at 9:03 PM – Jayramfootball: Lol … All you can do is laugh at Arsenal.

    Dec 3, 2014 at 9:16 PM – Jayramfootball: Alexis also shite tonight
    Dec 3, 2014 at 9:17 PM – Jayramfootball: Just a completely lack lustre mid week can’t be bothered game from the players
    Dec 3, 2014 at 9:17 PM – Jayramfootball: How dare the league interrupt their midweek night clubbing

    Dec 6, 2014 at 11:53 AM – Jayramfootball: Yep – Wenger has guaranteed Diaby a new contract if he gets fit.
    Dec 6, 2014 at 11:54 AM – Jayramfootball: So he’ll be fit for the week of signing and then get injured again – we all know that and so does Wenger but he is going to spend the clubs money despite that just because Diary is French

    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:39 PM – Jayramfootball: i really hope we lose 4 or 5 nil to Stoke
    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:39 PM – Jayramfootball: that would be a complete humiliation for Wenger

    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:46 PM – Jayramfootball: hope its at least 5 [goals for Stoke]
    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:47 PM – Jayramfootball: could be a great day for Arsenal
    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:47 PM – Jayramfootball: if Wenger is forced to resign

    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:55 PM – Jayramfootball: Wenger is and always has been a fraud and a loser

    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:56 PM – Jayramfootball: I would like to see us out of the top 4 and Wenger to move on
    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:56 PM – Jayramfootball: I don’t care about any false hopes – it will NEVER get any better with Wenger
    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:56 PM – Jayramfootball: I would like to see his career ruined and for him to leave in shame with his so called legacy destroyed
    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:57 PM – Jayramfootball: Thats what he deserves for the damage he has done to AFC

    Dec 6, 2014 at 3:57 PM – Jayramfootball: Worst manager in our modern day history

  53. Dec 6, 2014 at 4:00 PM – Jayramfootball: No – i want us to lose with zero credit
    Dec 6, 2014 at 4:00 PM – Jayramfootball: i want the players to not try as in the first half and not care about the humiliation
    Dec 6, 2014 at 4:01 PM – Jayramfootball: the sooner Arsenal and Wenger are laid bare as complete and utter losers and a laughing stock the sooner we can get change

    Dec 6, 2014 at 4:22 PM – Jayramfootball: this could be the moment all real Arsenal fans have been waiting for the nail in the coffin of our worst ever manager

    Dec 6, 2014 at 4:53 PM – Jayramfootball: very happy for his humiliation – always makes me feel good on a Saturday night knowing that cunt has been humiliated again :up:

    Dec 6, 2014 at 5:16 PM – Jayramfootball: We need 10 first team players and 4-5 subs in January – so 14-15 players need to be brought in to make us serious challengers… probably £300m needs to be spent
    Dec 6, 2014 at 5:17 PM – Jayramfootball: Obviously not going to happen but that is the extent to which Wenger has decimated the entire football club from top to bottom
    Dec 6, 2014 at 5:17 PM – Jayramfootball: It was curse on the club the day he walked in

    Dec 6, 2014 at 5:17 PM – Jayramfootball: IF wenger had never joined us we would have won MORE over the last 18 years and been in MUCH better shape now
    Dec 6, 2014 at 5:18 PM – Jayramfootball: I think, given the players we had, we would have been the dominant team – not Utd
    Dec 6, 2014 at 5:18 PM – Jayramfootball: Any half decent manager could have taken us much higher than Wenger ever did

    Dec 6, 2014 at 5:19 PM – Jayramfootball: Its amazing a man who knows so little about football could be a manger at a top 4 club

  54. Manace

    The Polish FA cup .

    Is this where the discussion turns to dildos, hemorrhoid , molestation and the likes?
    I’m afraid I’m not well equipped to discuss those so I’m out.

  55. Quincy,

    Wow, you really went digging man! I am glad you’ve posted some of jayramfootball’s hits for all to see. It is one thing to criticise and even abuse the manager but it something totally different to wish the club ill to spite the manager you hate on one site while pretending to be a moderate fan on another.

    Kudos on the postings!

  56. Jayramfootball, oh dear, bad points man.
    Poor old AW soaks up an incredible amount of verbal abuse, if he didnt where would it all go?
    Wenger in!AAA out!

  57. Demolition of Jayramfootball is now complete lol

    If Wenger got the sack tomorrow, would the treatment Arsenal get from the refs change for the better? more so if they appointed a Briton an his replacement? I have my doubts as we have truck loads of Britons in the team that are getting kicked to pieces without any intervention from the refs.If Arsenal got a fair treatment then I would have been the first one to call for his head if we still performed badly.

  58. wenger is the perfect example of :doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
    Albert Einstein::::

  59. I can’t get over Jayram’s comments! Shocking stuff!There might be a hint of schizophrenia in there in the way he sounds over here compared to other sites.

  60. Arsene sounded like he felt let down by the players post match when he expressed his disappointment that the players didnt do what they promised, obviously saying they didnt follow his instructions. I could be corrected but my memory cannot recall such a statement at any time during le profs reign.

  61. Spartan there is no schizophrenia at all.

    This site is pro Wenger and the owners of the site have made it clear that it is not acceptable to slate Arsenal or Wenger for any reason.
    I respect the wishes of this site and therefore do not post my most emotional in game outbursts of pure frustration. Nor will I even try and discuss them further here.

    As the owners of the site have also said they like people to comment on the articles written – that is what I do on here.

    So I have respected the sites wishes, but make absolutely NO secret of my feelings towards Wenger or the board – and many of the players. These have been held since the BBC606 days.

    As for Quincy – glad to see you popping in.

  62. @bootoomee – what purpose would it serve to slate Wenger on the manager on this site and NOT at the very least be moderate? That is not what this site is about. You whine constantly about people posting negativity here, but then criticise when someone tempers their posts to abide by the sites rules. Strange to say the least.

    The reason I post exactly what I want on the other site is because it is MY SITE, MY RULES.

    There is not a single thing posted on this site that is opposite or contrary to what I post elsewhere. Go ahead and try and find a contradiction.

  63. While the principle of free speech must be protected at all times, I wish we could all calm down, support whoever wears the shirt and come to a conclusion in May…..not December.

  64. Tony why are my posts in “moderation ” for hours while barely sane ranters post what they like ? do i swear ? use racist names ? mock disabilities ?

    or is that where Im going wrong ? please let me know so I can get with the program .

  65. Anyway – didn’t want my postings LIFTED FROM ANOTHER SITE, to deflect away from the key point made IN RESPONSE TO THE ACTUAL ARTICLE WRITTEN ON THIS SITE.

    That is, George Graham has a better trophies per season record than Wenger at Arsenal – and that, in my opinion, is more important than respective win percentages on a game basis.

  66. Yes Jayram, we already know you think Wenger is our worst ever manager. It obviously follows that you think Graham is better than Wenger. 😀

  67. I think you’ll find, Jayram, that Untold does in fact allow a difference of opinion, it all depends on how you go about it. Abuse is not tolerated. Bringing up points that have been addressed in the article is not taken kindly. Repeating mindless comments like “Wenger is an idiot”, and such like, is not accepted. And so on.

    You are welcome to criticise the club and Wenger, as long as you do it respectfully and backed up with decent arguments.

    What you have been doing, Jayram, is pretending to be a moderate on Untold, as Bootoomee points out, but on other websites you clearly show yourself to be anything but.

    “Both Wenger and Graham have/had good records”, you write on Untold. And on another website you say Wenger has been our worst ever manager.

    You are welcome to support your true view that Wenger is our worst ever manager, as long as you back it up with a good argument, but don’t come here pretending that you respect Wenger, the club, or the players.

  68. @Quincy – I have NEVER said I respect Wenger or the players. I don’t like footballers or managers generally and I have said as much.

    Confused by your point about commenting on the article. I think you are mistaken. That I would have thought is the whole point!

    I do not believe that Wenger is our worst ever manager, though at times during a game (especially when losing 3-0 to Stoke) I might say it on a shout box on my own site 🙂 I certainly don’t believe Wenger to be our best manager, that is correct and yes I believe Graham was better in almost every regard.

    I have always said that Wenger is a great attacking coach but is not a great manager. That is my non emotional view of him.

  69. @Quincy
    In terms of allowing a difference of opinion – yep fully aware of that and you will find that I express my differences of opinion when I want to. I do not however throw personal insults or continually call Wenger an idiot on here, which is exactly the point I was making. I see no reason other than wumming to do that on here – and I am not interested in wumming.

    I am not PRETENDING to be moderate on here. I AM being moderate on here.

  70. Wise words Nicky, May is what counts. A time for cool clear heads from the manager, players and fans.
    It has been a slog of a season, injuries seem worse than ever, refs , poor performances, bad old habits rearing their ugly heads. To add to the frustration, some of it seems self inflicted in terms of squad depth, and an over reliance on key players.
    What ever hurt and frustration we feel, what ever flaws we see, Wenger will experience them all a hundred fold. I write as a loyal supporter of the manager, but concede he has made serious errors in predicting the effect of injuries, in replacing departing defenders and at times in game management and team shape.
    But he sees things we don’t, knows things we don’t, sees the players daily, he is a visionary. He needs to put things right, and I am sure the month of January will be significant this year.
    There are times when I for one cannot understand what Wenger is doing, but he invariable sorts things. Maybe not as quickly as a cheque book manager like the eye gouging one, but he will sort things. He has signed a three year deal, he will put everything into achieving something special within this time.
    If only he had a level playing field.

  71. Quincy,

    As you must know, I am a staunch AKB. I Find most of the criticisms against Wenger ridiculous so I am absolutely against abusing him. But I can at least see some forthrightness in people posters who abuse him here. It may be insane but it isn’t 2 faced and there is nothing worse than a 2 faced back-biter who says one thing on one forum and something totally different on another.

    I just scroll past jayramfootball’s comments here now. I mean what’s the point, right?

  72. @Quincy

    Thank you for that great quote from Arsene Wenger about the media and Chelsea. What a laugh! I loved it!

  73. i dont see how you can compare GG with AW. as a fan, AW’s teams are soooo much more enjoyable and entertaining to watch. i guess at the end of the day, on a game to game basis, i care more about watching enjoyable football…because it makes me happy, and i quite like being happy. sometimes we dont win and we go through patches but the games are far less dour on average than with GG. football is not all about winning. its about fun, community, friendship etc….in that regard GG is no where near AW.

    havent seen anyone mention the absence of Koscielny which i believe is the most important aspect of our somewhat poor form. i believe wenger will find another great defender, just like he did with kozzer….but we have to remember that it took him about a year before we really saw how good he is. i have alot of faith in AW to spot talent, based on his wonderful track record of doing just that, we all just need to have a little patience.

  74. As usual utterly flawed statistics.

    Wenger’s wins 63% of games, but what percentage are loses and what are draws?

    What percentage wins do we have against Chelsea, Man city, Man Utd, Liverpool, Tottenham and for good measure Stoke?

    It’s all well and good winning 63% of games when that includes Hull, Palace, West Brom, Sunderland and the like. These are sides that we SHOULD be beating as a matter of course.

    The reason we’ve not won more than 3 titles under Wenger is because of our woeful inability to beat the sides around us and “physical” teams like Stoke.

    It’s the managers job to set us up so we beat opponents but our terrible record against certain teams year on year expose Wenger’s shortcomings.

    It’s too easy to blame “oil money” for our failures but if Alan Pardew has the measure of Mourinho then why can’t a great tactician like Wenger?

  75. “What we absolutely need is a manager who over time can deliver not just 63% of the league games played as wins but a higher percentage than that. Personally other than Wenger I can’t see who could come anywhere close at this time.”

    Whilst I agree with the first sentence, the other one, however, doesn’t mean much for at least four reasons.

    1) You have already admitted that you hadn’t known anything about Henry’s quality and you had questioned Pires during his first season which means the fact that you don’t recognize someone’s quality at the moment doesn’t confirm that the respective someone doesn’t have quality.

    2) Prior to the appointment of Arsene Wenger not too many people had heard of him, never mind expected him to win eleven trophies with Arsenal which means that our knowledge – as fans/supporters/call-it-whatever-you-want – doesn’t count much. Actually, it would have been an interesting thing if Untold Arsenal had existed, say, on 8th December 1995 when certain people were questioning Dennis Bergkamp’s ability to adjust to English football and how UA would have written about Bruce Rioch’s spell back then (remember, he had won 28 points by Week 15, was appointed as a manager after one of the best managers in Arsenal history which means he had pretty big shoes to fill, inherited a squad that was in danger of being relegated only a season ago and lost fourth-place-finish to Aston Villa only due to goals-scored tie-breaker) and rumours about Arsene Wenger’s possible arrival.

    3) Some of the best teams in the world have managers that were players in top European clubs during nineties – Josep Guardiola (Bayern), Luis Enrique (Barcelona), Diego Simeone (Atletico), Laurent Blanc (PSG) and even Carlo Ancelotti (Real Madrid) fit the bill as he had played for AC Milan in the beginning of nineties. Rare exceptions are Jose Mourinho and Jürgen Klopp who both had had poor playing career before they became managers. Mourinho was relatively anonymous prior to his back-to-back European titles with Porto (UEFA Cup 2003, Champions’ League 2004), Klopp was relatively anonymous prior to his back-to-back titles with Borussia Dortmund, Simeone hadn’t done anything at European soil before he broke the Spanish duopoly, Guardiola made an instant impact with Barcelona, Blanc made a huge result with Bordeaux…but all of them were relatively new in their job.

    Now, my point is this: unless something serious happens, Arsene Wenger won’t leave Arsenal before the summer 2017 when his contract expires. A lot of things can change in two-and-half years – new managerial talents might shine and some ex-player born in seventies (say, Ray Parlour or Marc Overmars from 1973) might become a new flavour of the year. Therefore, it’s not completely unreasonable to think that Wenger’s heir is yet to start his managerial career.

    4)There is a problem with claims that are like The Schrodinger’s Cat experiment. They can be either true or false. We don’t know what would someone else do on Arsene Wenger’s place because neither is someone else given a shot to reach the aforementioned percentage nor it’s going to happen. What we can say for sure is that we have a manager that – so far – has collected 23 points in 15 games (51%) – six victories (40%), five draws and five defeats.

  76. GG was a naughty boy , but brilliant, and forever should be held in esteem. Wenger is not a naughty boy, he has nothing to do with the naughty boys, he pays for it and always will. Wenger gave us success, gave us something unique in the modern game, as the CFC AAA will be aware of this weekend, was there when the stadium was built, was there during ownership disputes, was there during hurdles we don’t even know about, was there when the oilers could poach our best, but he kept us in the CL, and has won a couple pots recently.
    Will always love the GG, a club legend, and as fitting for arsenal, carried the can for what a lot of others were doing, but wenger goes above even him of a comparison has to be made. But that said, wish wenger would be more GG on defence!

  77. Jayram is free to speak his mind and what’s more he has respected the rules of this site. What is says outside this forum is none of our business.

  78. Well 4evered it is because of phraseology like this:

    “it was that useless berk Giroud who missed a goal my cat would have stuck away – and he was selected by ? no not the ref – one Mr Wenger”

    Lots of things wrong with that. One is that calling a player a useless goat does nothing to help or support the club. Another is that this site proclaims its support for the manager on the home page, and so it is totally contrary to our ethos. Another is that we proved on this site that Giroud scored virtually the same number of goals in his first two years at the club as Henry.

    I could go on with a series of other reasons, but then I’d have to reveal more of what you say, and I don’t really want to do this.

  79. You know David you really ought to do a little bit of research before writing, otherwise you can make yourself look incredibly foolish and also extraordinarily dull.

    The notion that Einstein made a comment about doing the same thing over and over has been examined on this site before, so you are just being boring. The issue of whether he said it or not has been examined, and there is no evidence that he ever said it.

  80. Tony, go figure…Tories will not build house on the oakfield site in barkingside but labour will!

    do i believe the local paper???

  81. Thank you , Tony , for this great article . I remember the double winning side of 1071-72 crashing to a 5-0 loss by Derby County at the Baseball Ground .
    Thanks also to the AKBs for the stout manner in which you defended your beliefs .
    To the AAAA , thanks for the laughs provided.

    “Sometimes ,when things take longer then you thought they would , it’s a gentle reminder from your greater self that you have more time than you thought , and that there’s a journey to enjoy .”
    Mike Dooley.

    I AM enjoying this journey , despite the few setbacks and pray that long may I keeping doing so.
    Up the Gunners !

  82. @ Kenneth Widmerpool -December 9, 2014 at 9:48 am – Thank you that welcome . Was away for the weekend and have just started to go through the articles , and in sequence !
    Still a long way to go !
    When I got back late on Sat, I was given the usual ,” We have good news and we have bad news ” ,schtick . The good news was Chelski lost . That news buoyed me no end, that ,so much so that the bad news that Arsenal lost didn’t even faze me at all. After all we always lose there most of the time !It was not at all unexpected .
    I wasn’t too disappointed , but we lost a chance to play catch up with the teams above us.
    When I came on here , was not at all surprised that the shitheads were back.
    You really have to pity them ! Really ! He he he !

  83. And speaking of true believers …..and humour lovers..

    Baptizing an Irish Drunk.

    An Irish man is stumbling through the woods, totally drunk, when he comes upon a preacher baptizing people in the river. He proceeds into the water, subsequently bumping into the preacher.

    The preacher turns around and is almost overcome by the smell of alcohol, whereupon, he asks the drunk, “Are you ready to find Jesus?”
    The drunk shouts, “Yes, I am.”

    So the preacher grabs him and dunks him in the water. He pulls him back and asks, “Brother, have you found Jesus?”

    The drunk replies, “No, I haven’t found Jesus!”

    The preacher, shocked at the answer, dunks him again but for a little longer. He again pulls him out of the water and asks, “Have you found Jesus, brother?”

    The drunk answers, “No, I haven’t found Jesus!”

    By this time, the preacher is at his wits end and dunks the drunk again — but this time holds him down for about 30 seconds, and when he begins kicking his arms and legs about, he pulls him up.

    The preacher again asks the drunk, “For the love of God, have you found Jesus?”

    The drunk staggers upright, wipes his eyes, coughs up a bit of water, catches his breath, and says to the preacher, “Are you sure this is where he fell in?”


    This is a tribute to a man who DID make a difference.

    BOB HOPE –

    ‘I still chase women, but only downhill.’

    ‘That’s the time of your life when even your birthday suit needs pressing.’

    ‘You know you’re getting old when the candles cost more than the cake.’

    ON TURNING 100
    ‘I don’t feel old. In fact, I don’t feel anything until noon. Then it’s time for my nap.’

    ‘I ruined my hands in the ring. The referee kept stepping on them.’

    ‘Welcome to the Academy Awards, or as it’s called at my home, ‘Passover.’

    ‘Golf is my profession. Show business is just to pay the green fees.’

    ‘I have performed for 12 presidents but entertained only six.’

    ‘When I was born, the doctor said to my mother, Congratulations, you have an eight pound ham.’

    ‘I feel very humble, but I think I have the strength of character to fight it.’

    ‘Four of us slept in the one bed. When it got cold, mother threw on another brother.’

    ‘That’s how I learned to dance. Waiting for the bathroom.’

    ‘I would not have had anything to eat if it wasn’t for the stuff the audience threw at me.’

    ‘I’ve done benefits for ALL religions.
    I’d hate to blow the hereafter on a technicality.’

    Give me a sense of humor Lord, give me the grace to see a joke, to get some humor out of life, and pass it on to other folk.

    AMEN .

  85. brilliant. Bob Hope,Groucho Marx,Don Rickles and Dean Martin and Woody Allen humour forever.Cheers Dr.Brickfields!

  86. @ Kenneth Widmerpool December 9, 2014 at 11:54 am – Those ARE some impressive names ! Always wanted to have the abrasive tongue of Don Rickles , but not quite there yet. With the help of the AAAA , I’m sure I’ll get there !

    Here’s a tall tale , of an older nature …

    How The Internet Got Started – According To The Bible.
    In ancient Israel , it came to pass that a trader by the name of Abraham Com did take unto himself a healthy young wife by the name of Dorothy.

    Dot Com was a comely woman, large of breast, broad of shoulder and long of leg.

    Indeed, she was often called Amazon Dot Com.

    And she said unto Abraham, her husband, “Why dost thou travel so far from town to town with thy goods when thou canst trade without ever leaving thy tent?”

    Abraham did look at her as though she were several saddle bags short of a camel load, but simply said, “How, dear?”

    Dot replied, “I will place drums in all the towns and drums in between to send messages saying what you have for sale, and they will reply telling you who hath the best price. The sale can be made on the drums and delivery made by Uriah’s Pony Stable (UPS).”

    Abraham thought long and decided he would let Dot have her way with the drums.

    The drums rang out and were an immediate success. Abraham sold all the goods he had at the top price, without ever having to move from his tent.

    To prevent neighboring countries from overhearing what the drums were saying, Dot devised a system that only she and the drummers knew. It was known as Must Send Drum Over Sound (MSDOS), and she also developed a language to transmit ideas and pictures – Hebrew To The People (HTTP).

    And the young men did take to Dot Com’s trading as doth the greedy horsefly take to camel dung.

    They were called Nomadic Ecclesiastical Rich Dominican Sybarites, or NERDS.

    And lo, the land was so feverish with joy at the new riches and the deafening sound of drums that no one noticed that the real riches were going to that enterprising drum dealer, Brother William of Gates, who bought off every drum maker in the land. Indeed he did insist on drums to be made that would work only with Brother Gates’ drumheads and drumsticks.

    And Dot did say, “Oh, Abraham, what we have started is being taken over by others.”

    And Abraham looked out over the Bay of Ezekiel , or eBay as it came to be known.

    He said, “We need a name that reflects what we are.”

    And Dot replied, “Young Ambitious Hebrew Owner Operators.””YAHOO,” said Abraham. And because it was Dot’s idea, they named it YAHOO Dot Com.

    Abraham’s cousin, Joshua, being the young Gregarious Energetic Educated Kid (GEEK) that he was, soon started using Dot’s drums to locate things around the countryside.

    It soon became known as God’s Own Official Guide to Locating Everything (GOOGLE).

    That is how it all began. And that’s the truth!

  87. I reckon Don would love that joke himself!Last time I saw him was a year ago and he ws still hilarious. But Don, Frank Sammy and Dean we’re hilarious.Now we’ve got the AAA.Are they the KKK of the Arsenal?
    I reckon that Groucho was the King of the put downs though, that guy was fast with one liners…

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