By Tony Attwood
It is interesting that this morning the Arsenal History Society published the latest of its series of articles covering the pre-season campaigns of Arsenal year by year since Bruce Rioch – and got to 2006, with the opening of the Emirates Stadium just at the moment that Chelsea and Tottenham beefed up some of the details of their new stadia.
So it’s now nine years since the Emirates opened, and one might wonder quite why it has taken Tottenham and Chelsea so long to see the great benefits that come from a large modern stadium. But the big difference in these developments is that in both cases Tottenham and Chelsea will be rebuilding their existing grounds and that will mean moving out for a year – and that of course is a much more complex affair than starting from scratch.
Many of the details we are getting now will of course be superseded in the years to come before the stadia are re-built, but there is a possibility (no more than that) that either or both teams will play for a season at Wembley while rebuilding takes place.
I wonder what the FA’s view on that would be for the FA Cup semi-finals or final, and the League’s for the League Cup final. Would they really allow a team that plays its home games at Wembley to play an FA Cup final “at home”?
Knowing the FA probably yes, but it would be an injustice – although this is a very hypothetical issue of course.
Of course the notion of renting out Wembley is not new although I can only find one prescedent. In 1998–99 and 1999–00 seasons Arsenal played Champions League games there, in part as an experiment to see if there really was enough support to warrant the building of a 60,000 seat stadium in Islington.
What is perhaps forgotten is that although Arsenal filled the old stadium it did not thrive at Wembley, playing six, winning two, drawing one and losing three. That does not mean that Arsenal’s experience would be replicated with Chelsea and Tottenham, but it does remind us that moving grounds is not always easy. Arsenal certainly didn’t do wonderfully well in its early days at the Emirates.
It would appear that the £400m finance for Tottenham’s rebuild is coming from the banks and financial institutions, as Arsenal’s did, and so will presumably be paid back over time. On Chelsea’s finance there seems to have been little information given – it could be undertaken in loans or it could be donated by the owner – which would be allowable under current FFP rules.
One other oddity has occurred thus far, and that is that Tottenham have agreed with the North American NFL that two games a season for 10 seasons will be played at Tottenham’s ground bringing in a profit of £3m per game.
That figure of £3m comes from the profit Wembley makes in its current deal. That is coincidentally the amount that Arsenal makes in profit from staging each home match at the Emirates. So looking at the current plans that would give Tottenham the equivalent of two more games a year.
As for the capacity it is said that Tottenham’s ground is projected to be about 600 seats bigger than Arsenal which would make it about 1% bigger than the Emirates. On the other hand the latest design shows that this gain seems to have been achieved by cutting out Club Level and Boxes on at least one, and possibly two “sides” of the ground (the current illustrations are not clear).
Certainly one end of the new Tottenham ground will be one single stand with no tier breaks at all. The issue is whether the other end continues with the notion of copying the club level and boxes scenario. These specialist seats and the catering that goes with them, bring in huge amounts of money although they reduce capacity.
Undoubtedly more data will become available in due course both from Chelsea and Tottenham.
By profit of £3m a game do we actaully mean revenue?
The spuds building a new stadium is like me buying condoms without a girlfriend, sure i’m hopeful, but deep down i know it’s a waste of money
wow the new Tottingham stadium looks awesome. that stand. that beautiful 17000 single tier one of a kind in the league stand. Imagine the noise soon to emanate upon the pitch and players when that beast is built. Just awesome. What a stadium the first of its kind new generation think about the money that NFL deal two games minimum ( could be twice that ) will generate in the next ten years on and off the pitch. And if they decide to base a team at Tottingham full time after a decade then the opportunity for more riches will be endless and wondrous.
wow.
• A visually dramatic new stadium design – a landmark building for Tottenham and London, focussed towards the ‘Home End’, improved sightlines for all spectators and modern technology integral to the design from the outset to enhance the fan experience.
• An increased capacity stadium – up from 56,250 to 61,000 seats, featuring the largest single tier stand in the UK, now increased to 17,000 seats, with an unrivalled spectator experience throughout and spectators closer to the pitch than at any other comparable size stadium in the UK.
• Dedicated facilities for the NFL – including a fully retractable pitch revealing a second playing surface, compliant to NFL standard and capable of hosting a range of other events whilst protecting the integrity of the playing surface.
• An architecturally stunning new terrace on the High Road to host ‘The Tottenham Experience’ – a permanent Visitors Centre and Arrivals Hub including an interactive Museum to celebrate Club history and local heritage, a Cinema, the Club Megastore, Ticket Office and Café.
• A permanent viable use for the Grade II listed Warmington House – incorporated as part of The Tottenham Experience to house the new Museum, blending old architecture with new.
• Improved crowd management arrangements along the High Road – with the removal of three buildings that currently create a pinch point along Tottenham High Road where the pavement is just two metres wide – resulting in people walking in the bus lane and the road – allowing instead for a much wider pavement to cope with large crowds.
• Enhanced public open space – comparable in area to Trafalgar Square, includes a multi-use games area, high quality landscaping, cafes, dedicated events and community programmes managed by the Tottenham Hotspur Foundation, and the ability to walk uninterrupted all the way round the stadium.
• A new 180 bedroom hotel with a dedicated training programme for the hospitality industry – providing high quality accommodation in Tottenham and opening up new career opportunities for local people. 49 serviced apartments will occupy the upper floors.
• A fantastic new building to host Extreme Sports – bringing people to Tottenham on a daily basis with activities for all ages, including the tallest indoor climbing wall in the world.
• A spectacular ‘Sky Walk’ – an adrenaline-filled experience and attraction for all ages walking on top of the stadium with spectacular views across London.
If the NFL games are going to be played at the chicken run, I assume Wembley won’t have those games. I wonder how positively Wembley will look upon renting their ‘facility’ to a club that’s just nicked some of their own income….
Nope this does not mean Wembley will not be losing these games. They will hold additional games at spurs’s new ground. Wembley already have a deal in place for them to host their current game at the same time each year.
the O2 arena are also competing to host nfl games. Reality is money talks and i am sure the FA will be looking at the figures and probably say yes. Spurs eventually will have a bigger revenue stream than arsenal. Who would of thought. So when will the emirates be expanded?
The idea of the north American NFL bruisers playing on a Football pitch will bring nightmares to the groundsmen and groundskeepers for certain! We already have to share our soccer fields with Canadian Football and sometimes even baseball teams.This overuse inevitably ruins the fields for soccer, which are already in very poor condition from our harsh winters and poor maintenance by municipal authorities.
The Emirates pitch is pristine and very well maintained…..can the Spuds be assured the same will be true for theirs after the NFL bulldozers are through?
Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Real Madrid, The AC & Inter Milan clubs, Dortmound, PSG are re-known for their large seating capacity stadia. Now Man City, Chelsea and Spurs are reported to be soon putting their plans in place to increase their stadia seating capacity. And Spurs seating capacity is said to relegating the Emirates to 3rd place in the Premier League stadia seating capacity. 8 years on since Arsenal opened the Emirates for use by the Gunners is enough time for the Arsenal owners and management board to think of expanding the Emirates seatings to answer the ever increasing Gooners who have been on season awaiting ticket list in their thousands. Arsenal have their Highbury Stadium, the Gunners can relocate their games to, pending when the Emirates sitting expansions will be completed. Which I believe should not be more that a year or so with all those high-tech construction machines around. What are Arsenal waiting for. We shouldn’t be left behind. Our fans on the waiting list necessitate such an expansions. A 10,000 increase seating capacity should not cost up £100m which I should believe Arsenal should be abled to finance on their own without resorting to bank loans.
The Spud plan is complex. They want a retractable natural grass turf to sit on top of an artificial grass turf for the football. Lots of weight, needs to be waterproof, lots of parts to break down, stuff under the grass needs to be be rust proof (probably stainless steel, aka expensive). Looks like a nightmare to me.
Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Real Madrid, The AC & Inter Milan clubs, Dortmound and PSG are re-known for their large seating capacity stadia. Now Man City, Chelsea and Spurs are reported to be soon putting their plans in place to increase their stadia seating capacity. And Spurs seating capacity is said to relegating the Emirates to 3rd place in the Premier League stadia seating capacity. 8 years on since Arsenal opened the Emirates for use by the Gunners is enough time for the Arsenal owners and management board to think of expanding the Emirates seatings to answer the ever increasing Gooners who have been on the season awaiting ticket list in their thousands. Arsenal have their Highbury Stadium, the Gunners can relocate their games to, pending when the Emirates sitting expansions will be completed. Which I believe should not be more than a year or so with all those high-tech construction machines around. What are Arsenal waiting for. We shouldn’t be left behind. Our fans on the awaiting list necessitate such an expansions. A 10,000 increase seating capacity should not cost up £100m which I should believe Arsenal should be abled to finance on their own without resorting to bank loans.
The Spud plan is complex. They want a retractable natural grass turf to sit on top of an artificial grass turf for the NFL. Lots of weight, needs to be waterproof, lots of parts to break down, stuff under the grass needs to be be rust proof (probably stainless steel, aka expensive). If the natural grass is retracted too long, it will yellow and then die. There may be things like hydraulics over top of the grass in the retracted position, which kill grass in a leak situation. Looks like a nightmare to me.
Under the current FFP rules, I am quite sure Cosa Nostra would be fully permitted to fund Chelsea’s stadium
I can’t comment too much as to Spurs plans but as some will know I gave a bit of a heads up as to Chelsea’s plans a month or two ago.
It is clear that a lot of Bridge Building ( forgive the pun) has taken place already and to get a 60k stadium on the site currently occupied by CFC will be a challenge to say the least but the sort of time lines being talked about seems to suggest that planning will be applied for as early as September.
For those who don’t know Stamford Bridge it is served in the main by Fulham Broadwey tube but there are a couple of other stations quite close by such as Earls Court and a couple of main line stations such as West Brompton.
Parking isn’t that difficult and access to the M3, M25 and M4 is ,traffic permitting ,no more than 35 minutes from exiting the ground including a brisk 10 minute walk to the car. The transport infrastructure probably won’t need much, if any investment other than a planned walkway from the stadium directly into Fulham Broadwey itself
The plans are, it seems to dig down approx 7 meters and build the new stands to about the same height as those currently on the site
Very interesting designs produced by Swiss architects which some will like, some will hate but at a cost estimated close to £500 million it clearly isn’t going to come cheap.
So how will it be paid for?
In reality to saddle the club with interest and capital repayments, equal to or just lower than the additional sum you can raise in match day is unlikely
There is no doubt that Chelsea income has risen significantly and whilst some struggle with Chelsea’s business plan it seems that the football business is just about able to support itself and with further growth in both TV and CL monies and yes I know we have said it many times, the expectation that a player or two will now progress from our youth set up I doubt that you will see huge nett transfer spends over the next decade meaning that RA might just bite the bullit and fund the project himself . If that’s the case it’s been suggested to me that he could put ownership of the stadium in the name of the holding company and possibly charge no more than a peppercorn rent to the football side of the business with the security of a 200. + year lease
Another version re funding is that he may well follow the example of the glaziers and sell say 25% of the shares and use the funds to in part fund the development
Huge amount of speculation but what appears to be the case is that it has been accepted that there are no sites close enough to enable the club to move to a new site
As for where we move if all goes to plan well it won’t be Twickenham and it seems that Wembley will probably be first choice . As for the issues should we do indeed temporarily move there and qualify for FA cup semi s or indeed final or come to that a CC final then I very much doubt that will be of concern to the FA for the prospect of Wembley generating an additional £33 million plus over a 3 year period will have them rubbing their hands with glee.
I think the 7m drop in the field of play is appropriate particularly if filled with water. It will ensure the Chelsea diving skills are brought to the fore. 😉
Wow – normally I’d immediately remove a cut and paste job like that but the effect of the whole thing gave me a smile so I thought why not. Just this once.
“….A new 180 bedroom hotel with a dedicated training programme for the hospitality industry …..”.
Yes, just what every war zone needs. A new hotel.
Building it is easy. It’s filling it that’s difficult. Clearly the writer has never been to N17.
@The boy shows promise
July 8, 2015 at 6:14 pm
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
excellent!!!!
@Clockendrider
July 9, 2015 at 7:24 am
yeah BUT ‘wow’ …’wow’ 😉 🙂
Looks impressive, great design though the NFL thing seems a bit ambitious.. Guess we will soon have to get our planning application for 75000 in, with continued success, we will have to grow.
Tottenham , Liverpool and certainly Chelsea won’t face the problems we faced with a new stadium, crap commercials, property prices falling, unexpected and urgent multi million payments to the inland revenue, much less TV revenue than the hundred mil you now get for finishing bottom of the league,, perhaps the odd mistake made but I expect things to be difficult for them , or the first two at least, for a few years, during which time we will firmly establish ourselves in Europes elite. Tell me, will our shadow effect growing conditions for their turf.
Has anyone asked Jack Wilshere his opinion on Tottenhams plans?
Tony
My post isn’t a cut and copy . I challenge you to find it elsewhere
Apologies I hadn’t grasped that Wow was a posters name
The Telegraph writer forget to mention (Lord) Sainsbury’s!
That giant store went up, oh, years ago now. Peopl often forget to look at the physical evidence before them (see below)
It’s true. In N5 AFC built a stadium first. Then some housing and shops etc. a small Tesco store. Some more housing. Some inappropriate housing proposals that were blissfully rejected by an uncompromised LA.
Over the last few years what has been happening in N17 has been the inverse process. Everything the AAA tried to convince everyone was happening in N5 can be seen to be happening in N17. From the Mayor downwards. Fascinating viewing. This is Modern Football.
At AFC, relatively speaking, they still wear tweed blazers and flat caps.
What we do know is that the relative costs of construction have increased even with the drop in oil prices. AFC built their stadium at a good time.
Thanks Mike T.
Many admire the work of those architects at the smaller scale, not too sure at the larger scale. Tate Modern got lots of thumbs down from their peers, the original structure was a masterpiece. The Bird’s Nest was disowned by ity’s main designer Ai Wei Wei.
On the plus some it’s a studio that have worked with megalomaniacs previously so they know how to manage them!
I hope for your sakes that those pensioners or whoever it is who owns the pitch over there can manage to keep their eyes on the football. And the owner’s budget. We all know why.
The New Arsenal Stadium was built to a very tight budget. As all who went there the first three odd years could attest that it looked like a shell and core fit out because that’s essentially what it was. The Wonga for the drapes and chandeliers and lick ‘a paint came from a different pot, a process that would’ve eased the debt burden. And that’s because the Arsenal had to tighten their belt (just in case people out there are still in denial the acres of bare concrete, that were bare for years and years, they were quite strong evidence! People are of course entitled to ‘opinions’. Heh.).
I have a feeling that applying some kind of Flavian Amphitheatre type finish over the superstructure of SB in order to appeal to Roman’s not so small ego is something that might not be in the club’s long term interest.
Of course the famous Roman bricks of the Flavian Amphitheater back in the the day would have been coloured and covered by various drapes and awnings, possibly with paintings of legends upon them :). Rome is after all warmer then London. If I was being cheeky I’d say the designers have proposed a stadium that will look like a Roman ruin. Not a functioning amphitheatre.
The Art Deco facade at Highbury that covered an incredible and then sophisticated superstructure was Grade II listed because it looked good. Highbury was built as a football stadium that nodded it’s flat cap in the direction of Le Corbusier’s masterpiece the Chapel Notre Dame du Haut in Ronchamp (amazing and hidden cantilevered steel structures). Not because it was designed to look “gritty” or “real”. That is a strange and not insignificantly condescending concept! It could be nice, as always, it will come down to the details.
But that bridge will be nice. More useful, prettier, then Boris’ bloomin’ “Garden Bridge”. 🙂
Buro Happold engineers did a great job with the roof of the New Arsenal Stadium.
Sinuous sine curves forming the stands, some kind of Fibonacci effect innit? The exposed ribs soaring through the sky, it’s the inverse of the Art Deco facade covering the structure of Highbury (and the proposed roof in N17) and it all looks amazing.
You don’t need to spend a bazillions pounds on a giant arch built with the wrong or inappropriate contract in order to lift the spirits or “wow” the observer.
By the time AFC we’re printing out CGI images to show to people the builders and engineers had signed the contracts and been appointed. To be clear: Before all funding had been secured.
This is a huge contrast to events up in Tottenham.
I say nothing!
Finsbury,
You are right about the decoration of the stadium. At my first visit (in the first season at the Emirates) it was a complete nude stadium one could say. Just covered a few vital private parts 😉
Now it feels much warmer in- and outside. And what people forget (and even I didn’t think about it): decorating such a big building also cost a lot of money.
Was it a must do? In one way not as it doesn’t affect the football on the pitch one could say.
But the end result (or as it stands today) is that it now really feels like a home.
and it will feel even more like home once the Untold banner is hanging inside the stadium…. 🙂
Walter,
I would not have asked those who don’t think about such things every day to bore themselves with such thoughts! I would expect it from a self-declared expert and master in Football, Finance and Physiotherapy (Sports physiotherapy. The Three Sacred F’s).
When I went to watch my first game at the new arsenal stadium in ’06 I remember straining my neck as I looked up at all that bare unfinished concrete structure, and I remember asking myself:
“Why don’t they spend some farking money?” 🙂
Finsbury,
Are you sure some AAA didnt over hear you remarking to yourself “spend some farking money” and assumed you were talking to Mr Wenger?
Hold your horses, everyone.
The bold new scheme will be submitted for planning approval to Haringey, in AUTUMN 2015.
There is no planning approval as yet.
Daniel Levy, Thas still not retracted the lie about Arsenal, in 2010. In a club statement, levy stated – this is in contrast to Arsenal and Wembley which were both awarded public sector assistance.
Chapter and verse – no problem. I have copies of the planning applications, on tap.
Notoverthehill, I can’t see the spuddies plans being kicked out. Haringey are desperate for someone to invest some money In that cr4phole area.