By Tony Attwood
For the last two away wins two different banners have been produced at the end of the match saying that it is time for Wenger to leave Arsenal.
Seeing these on display I started to ask some simple questions such as
a) why would you make such a banner and pay £35 or so, to stand in the Arsenal end and then display the banner?
b) how come in an era when away fans are checked for individual components of flares (which typically are subdivided between various people in order to get them into the ground) something as big as a banner got past security?
c) how come the TV cameras were in exactly the right place at the right time to see the banner at the end?
The more I looked at it the more I found that all the answers pointed in just one direction – and I must say it puts BT Sport in a very bad light.
Question b is the particularly troublesome one. How come the banner got into the ground past security. If you’ve been as an away supporter at grounds you’ll know that you are checked to see you are not carrying weapons or components – and indeed I’ve been critical of stewarding at Arsenal Stadium as yet again Watford fans brought in at least one flare or smoke bomb. But a whole banner?
But first let’s think of why someone might do this on their own.
1: Because he/she is lonely
This ultimately is the cause of most strange behaviour in public. It is attention seeking. If you stand in the crowd and cheer you are just a person in the crowd. If you get to where the camera sees you, then you are at once an international film star and your life is made forever. If not in reality then at least in your imagination.
2: Because the bannerians believe it will be seen
Argument one falls down because banners are held up by two people, the bannerians. But to make this argument work the bannerians need to believe that Arsenal would be a better club without Wenger, and that putting up a banner to this effect would help in that process.
Now this is fairly dumb since everyone knows that the manager goes straight down the tunnel at the end of the game having shaken hands with the opposition manager. The directors shuffle off for drinks from the security of their box.
So no one who has real influence inside the club would see the banner. Which means it is not going to have any effect. Except…
If the bannerians knew that the TV cameras would pick out the banner, then there might be a reason. Not a very good reason, since there is every chance you might not get past security, unless someone on the inside helped.
However it all looks dubious. If these are regular supporters that means they are members of the travel club or season ticket holders with lots of away credits to their name, who can smuggle a banner in, take the risk of not being ejected and who just hoped maybe a camera might be on them at the end of the game (which is very unusual in itself).
Which leaves another option…
If TV paid you or encouraged you to display the banner and arranged the banner to be where the banner could be seen….
But still there is the problem of getting it in the ground.
At both games where the banner was, the banner was placed in a position where the camera could see it, and the camera was there at the end of the game. We didn’t see the banner through the rest of the game, nor that particular shot of the crowd. But come the moment at the end it was there, unfurled, to the waiting camera.
Of course you can believe this was a coincidence, just like its a coincidence that if I drink three glasses of wine and then sit down to write an article the words come out looking like vkjasdf jdo kj; josjmk rather than some erudite insights.
If the TV company helped get it into the ground
It is one thing for the TV station to spot some people with a banner and for minions to shout to the bannerians “OK lads over here” and they dutifully shuffle over. It is another for a media outlet to encourage the guys to have the banner and then be in the right place and even smuggle the banner in.
Taking banners into grounds is normally illegal without the club’s permission.
Since away support is ticket only, and since the grounds are all seater, everyone knows who is there. The bannerians have clearly broken the regulations surrounding the matches and the TV companies have encouraged them by giving them free publicity.
All this is bad enough. But when we come to ask how the banner got there, then a totally different issue arises.
Which takes us back to only one likely option: that BT Sport were specifically involved in getting the banner on show. Either because they encouraged some disaffected supporters to make it and bring it with the promise that they would “be on the telly” or, more likely, because they were instrumental in bringing the banner in – in order to stir up controversy and get pictures on BT Sport that are not seen on Sky.
In this piece I am looking at likelihood. There is no proof in the sense that I didn’t catch a man with a TV pass bringing a banner into the ground, but as scientific enquiry shows, most of the time, working to get rid of the highly unlikely, one ends up with the most likely explanation.
The two games that anti-Wenger banners have been shown at have one thing in common. They were both filmed by BT Sport.
Odd that.
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- Everton – Arsenal 0-2: that is more like it.
- Everton v Arsenal: a preview, an analysis, a rant, a funny picture.
- Everton v Arsenal 19 March 2016 – The Match Officials. More of the same from PGMO this weekend
The Untold Books
Danny Karbassioon’s book “The Arsenal Yankee” with a foreword by Arsene Wenger will be published on Tuesday 29 March. You can buy the book on line here for £14.95, or by phone on 01536 399 011 using a credit card. A full list of our Arsenal titles is given here. You can order by post to Hamilton House Mailings Ltd., Earlstrees Ct., Earlstrees Rd., Corby, Northants NN17 4HH. The cost of postage is UK £3.95, EU £4.95, Rest of world: £5.95, and that applies irrespective of the number of books ordered. We can accept orders by Pay Pal and details will be given closer to the publication date.
Please do stay on this page to continue discussing the match.
There is however also a new article up on how it was that people with the anti-Wenger banner were able to get past security and display the banner.
The answer seems disturbing
http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/51334
pretty sure getting smallish banners past security is not a big deal
and the cameras are supposed to observe all of the stadium
and you usually see away fans during the game, and after
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a TV company was involved….it,certainly makes you wonder.
The banner thing is all very immature, and very me me me……..and a bit of a farce when the team have just won a tricky away fixture.
Hopefully the team will very soon be making the banner boys an irrelevance
i think the ones who put up the banner finally got some deserved spanking from proper fans, that’s a positive
http://arsenalist.com/f/2015-16/everton-vs-arsenal-highlights/arsenal-s-banner-loving-fans-figthing-on-live-tv-as-ian-wright-admoninshes-them.html
Apologies for re-posting this comment which I put up on the previous thread but it is more relevant to this article…..
A great result and promising performance by the team.
A shame BT gave so much air time to the morons holding the banner up.
They appeared to be from the younger end of the support? spectrum and (whilst risking being accused of stereotyping) looked like potential recipients of Darwin Awards at some point in the future.
OT:sorry to write again, but seeing as this is the new thread, please support Earth Hour.
Too much importance is being attached to these banners. Presumably they are meaningful to their sponsors but unless the TV cameras identify and broadcast fleeting shots of them, they are of little interest to others.
A somewhat waste of effort and intent….?
The bannerman was interviewed on Arsenal Fan TV after the Everton win and spouted negativity. Arsenal Fan TV seem to have taken the video off
I am not Wenger out. I’m a Wenger supporter and find it hard to imagine the club with another manager….and beware the Moyes effect!
That said, I have listened to @DeejayDt (the guy behind the banner) on Arsenalfantv and elsewhere, and while I don’t agree with his opinions, he’s articulate in how he expresses them. It’s his opinion, and if that is his opinion, I guess he has a right to demonstrate it, even if we don’t agree.
The banner didn’t come out during the game, but after.
He displayed it not only when the team had lost, but when they had won.
He didn’t do it at Shite Hart lane.
It seems to me he’s being as ‘low impact on the team’ as is reasonable and still getting his point across.
As he said, ‘If you support Wenger, make your own banner and come and stand next to me expressing your view’, and I think that’s a valid point.
I’m a conspiracy theorist generally, but I don’t see this one…it’s a (or some) disgruntled fan, not BT sport being nefarious…
stop writing in a roundabout way! get to the point! please!
I don’t pretend to understand London based fans, but calling for his resignation looks really stupid from this side of the pond. How the banner got in is not really the issue. Plus the media are like flies to honey when they smell drama. It sells right?
I totally agree with you. It was my first thought when I saw the first one.
The banners don’t deserve to be mentioned. Stupid people get too much attention even without their participation.
Anyway, Arsenal should go up from this point on. We have shown mental stability to beat 12 men. I know that much has been said about our attacking shortcomings but today it was all about perfect defending. Yes, a few early shaky moments aside, that is. Elneny and Coquelin made a perfect axis in front of our back four. Gabriel gave the best performance in his Arsenal career, I think. Lukaku is difficult to handle but Gabers did that job much better than number of higher rated defenders across the league.
Bellerin and Monreal have confirmed once more that they are our biggest advantage to all other title rivals. Bellerin has picked three assists in the last three games. Alexis has also assisted Welbeck which means he has participated in three goals in the last three league games. Iwobi had excellent first half, perfect finish and reasonably faded a bit in the second half. Ospina did well again.
Our next game is Watford at home. Hopefully Cech, Ozil and Rambo will be back as we need every player until the end.
Great result and the team were looking the part.
As for the children with their newest toy it got e wondering if mummy and daddy would be waiting for them when they got home.
Bet there parents were not happy with their little darlings when it was pointed out to them what Jeb and Billy Bob had done and on TV for all the world to see.
No supper and all PlayStation privilege’s lost for X amount of weeks and your grounded for showing us all up in front of the neighbors.
Referring was a total and utter disgrace and if something is not done soon it’s going to get worse because they are getting away with it and not being held accountable by anyone.
Time for someone within our club to grow a set because if the club have made noise about it then it has not been strong enough by far.
We will keep getting screwed again and again so pressure must be applied more and more on them.
Would it not be great if we could get Dispatch’s or some sure program to invest these nest of Snakes.
I am hoping this is a joke. You are actually suggesting that BT paid for and brought into the ground and then arranged to give it to some fans to hold up right where their cameras were placed. And then you have some who say as soon as they saw it they thought the same thing. Its Waco in the making
It is ref performance like tonight’s that give substance to the fact that Premiership refs are either bent or incompetent. How many downright biased refereeing like this gets flagged and punished? Is it that England invents the game and so reserves the right to insult our collective intelligence with dodgy officiating or what? Is this the way to not bring the game into disrepute? Is the game of football and its laws so subjective that any shade of grey can pass and not even a whimper from anybody? Am I so deluded that I cannot seem to understand what is going on?
tbh it wouldn’t be so hard to get a banner inside any stadium presuming you hadn’t already unfurled it. The problem with Arsenal fans is there are so many that a unified consensus about almost anything is near imposible.
BT chose to highlight this because it fits the media’s narrative of Arsenal in crisis. Arsenal barring an epic cock up won’t win the leauge and are out of all other competitions… how many crisis clubs are there in the PL then?
I fully expect Arsenal to finish above the small and extremely lucky club near Arsenal. That being said the leauge was there for Arsenal to win this season had a few other players been brought in. The blame for this falls on Wenger in some fan’s minds, he’s also blamed rightly or wrongly for the substandard results we’ve had for most of this calendar year.
I’m no in the WOB but the AKB dogma has to, at the right time, be seriously questioned. Let’s get 24 point and see what happens. COYG
Benglian. We have made our own banner. It is on display at the Emirates at the clock end and there is a photo of it on the home page of this site. But it is illegal to take a banner into a stadium without formal permission from the club. It is also against the contract between the TV companies and the PL to show any fan activity that could be deemed controversial during a game – that is why it is only shown at the end.
Number of people commenting tonight without really knowing the rules. Please read the comments page before you comment if you are new to the site and don’t know what we are; otherwise you might find your comments are not published.
Has the standard of the refereeing for Arsenal matches fallen even further since BT started covering the EPL – and if so is that only a co-incidence?
How about the club cancelling their season tickets for breaking the rules. A investigation should be conducted into this by the club. If BT is found guilty then the sponsorship should be cancelled. Just throwing this into the debate…could it be an insider from the club trying to stir shit just to make AW ‘s position untenable? Just wondering.
Getting a 4×4 foot banner into a stadium, when it is folded up and under one’s jacket, or as in the case of these aaa wankers, worn as a diaper, is no challenge given the security lacunae in most stadiums.
Why would BT cameras focus on just that section at the end is self-explanatory: it fits their agenda perfectly….Wenger bashing and cheap thrills for the tiny minority of aaa morons actually getting a kick out of seeing this shite on TV. As Andy Worhol so correctly said, these anti-Wenger idiots got their ¨15 minutes of fame¨, or in their case 15 seconds of infamy!
Gazidis and the Board MUST complain formally to Everton at the fact that such aaa mental midgets successfully sneaking an aaa banner into the stadium and being allowed to display it at the end of the game. alsmost as disgraceful as the officiating today!
Isn’t the head of BT Sports a Spurs fan?
Wasn’t it last year or so that BT Sport liked to make posters of Arsenal’s big losing scorelines to promote their football range?
Especially these days what with certain brands to be shown on TV surely something similar is made regarding banners?
Just think how much BT Sport would be happy if this season Spurs finish above Arsenal. There would be special posters and what not.
It is not an Everton issue. It is a BT issue. THe cameras should not have been broadcast as it is controversial & breaches the contract with the EPL. There seems to be a complicit strategy by some mischief mongers to destabilise Arsenal.
It is surprising that the club has not reacted & sued. The individual should not be allowed into the Ems & be banned for life. Allowing him to attend matches might lead to a riot.
It is time for the police to investigate this but will only act if it is formally reported.
If as Tony says it is not allowed to take banners into the match, Arsenal should do the bloke. What kind of a fan is he anyway? He is just contributing to the negative atmosphere round our club. An atmosphere that is simply not deserved and not helpful.
BT were quick enough to show the banner and the clear ill feeling of the fans unfurling it, equally quick in turning off the cameras when seeing what disruption, negativity, and violence it has caused in their section of the stadium, encouraged and fuelled by BT’s continuous coverage of the banner men I might add…
We may not really know how the banner was brought in to the stadium , but I’m sure that many of us here would agree as to where we would like to see it end up !
Strange no case of banners or buntings found where the sun doan shine !
http://www.well.com/user/cynsa/newbutt.html
The Banner-wankers.
There is an article on Just Arsenal about the dismal refreeing by Clattenburg.
Atleat UA are not the only ones highlighting biased refreeing against Arsenal.
BtW wherer did the so called fans gone who tried to ridicule Wenger at the Stoke train station last year?
Infact these so called fans know nothing about football. They fail to realise that in Wenger Arsenal are blessed with one of the most experienced,highly successful manager a club can have.
People carving for Mouriniho and Rodgers can see what they brought to the club. Shame for the former and Mediocrity for the latter.
With Chelsea failing to quAlify for CL this year can anyone predict if Hazard Costa and Fabregas would stay at chelsea come May?
Thanks to the special one for bringing shame and faliure to the club.
Wonder who is the specialist in faliure now..!
I believe the taunt Mourinhio implied on Wenger will haunt himself for the rest of his life.
Tony, I think you have gone too far in your assumptions. It is one thing to analyse Referee performances in a very balanced way but another to make the unbalanced assumption that a TV company are complicit in the smuggling in of a banner and it’s display is too much.
As you correctly say to posters on many occasions ‘show me the evidence’. I was in Barcelona and I was at the match yesterday and I found the Banner distasteful and disrespectful especially as it was accompanied by loud chants of quote’Stan Kroenke Get out of our Club’. This was the first time I have heard this chant and it was led by the banner holders. Am I therefore to assert that they were paid by BT Sport to make this chant? I don’t think so.
Yesterday’s banner went too far in having a direct Wenger out hashtag at the bottom, but to suggest some conspiracy by BT over this is somewhat incredulous.
I love this site and agree with the sentiments behind it but please let’s not descend into unsubstantiated speculation. Balanced views and comments and freedom of expression are what I believe in passionately but if someone disagrees with my beliefs I don’t attack them with an eloquent rant.
Mickess
May agree to your argument. But imho how would you defend the constant abuse the media puts on Wenger day in day out inapite of his much much better record than rival managers during his regime at Arsenal. They mostly paint a negative picture of Arsrenal inspite of being more sucessful than rival clubs during the PL era.
Infact Arsenal have won 9 trophies in the last 18 years i am only counting league titles and FA cups and not counting the charity shields for debateable reasons.Only Ferguson has a better record than Wenger but i have serious allegations against Ferguson victories which may be debated elsewhere.In the Pl era Arsenal average positon has always been above Liverpool Spurs and City and only United and Chelsea have a better overall record but the criticism Wenger has to face implies a hatred agenda of the media against our humble manager.
The media does not put light that Wenger achieved more sucess than his rival managers against financial constraints during the construction of the stadiums and the top 4 finishes Wenger achieved on low budgets when city and chelsea were pouring billions to win top prizes.United never had financial issues either.
Media people have there agendas for sure.
Everone knows.
In both games the banner was displayed, the perpetrators appeared to be near the front of their tier allowing easy viewing of their banner. If they had been at the back of the stand then it wouldn’t have been so easy. How come their seats are in a prominent position? Or did they move to the front at the final whistle?
Rosicky@Arsenal. I agree that Arsenal get the short straw with the media. Ever since he arrived and in his initial interview with the press he was asked about whether he had heard the rumors against him. Need I say more. And people on here seem to think that these banners have just been displayed. It’s the first time I saw the one yesterday but the DT one has been around for a few seasons now so we shouldn’t get uptight over the press giving it prominence now which they are only doing to fuel their agenda.
Hey people, enough of this back and forth debate about the (mis)deeds of the banner-wankers. Let’s have 10 banners hailing Arsene Wenger for every such idiotic display. It may seem like a banner war, but then, call it what you will, it is war.
We are fighting for the soul of our club, and I firmly believe (no evidence here) that the nay-sayers cannot be that many as to drown out the voices of those rooting for Wenger and his boys. All they need to keep succeeding is for the rest of us to be docile spectators, allowing them have their way and their say all at a go. BT cannot but become exposed and shamed if truly they are behind all these. How will they explain away that counter arguments are so blatantly on display and they wont show it?
I totally agree Stan the Man.
We are in a fight for this club’s soul and if we all sit back and let these people ruin a glorious football club then we are complacent also.
I’m really sick and tired of AW having to put up with all this abuse, I think the time has come for a show of support from the supporters of Arsenal FC for the greatest manager in their history.
All this has been heaped upon this man’s shoulders and let’s be honest here, he has carried the heavy load of Arsenal on those same shoulders all these years with very little backing from the board.
Their must have been times when he has felt that burden and also felt alone in carrying it.
This all started from day one with the media and still continues unabated.
For all the loyalty and selfless devotion he has shown this club I think the time has come for those of us who have seen what this great man has been up against to show him our support and not just with these banners but with the PMGO. This organisation is corrupt with out a shadow of a doubt as the stats on this site have shown over the years. All the work that these guys running this site have put in cannot go to waste. We saw it again yesterday and it’s so blatant that it is a case of them saying we can do what we want and there is not a thing you can do about it. We will continue to screw Arsenal as long as we damn well like.
Everything as we know comes to an end and it’s up to us to give it a massive push so that it ends sooner rather than latter. Someone somewhere must be interested in the corruption that is so very in your face from these refs and how their organisation is been run especially that lovely £50.000 if you don’t speak about us clause.
We cannot let Arsene Wenger go through this on his own any longer, his shoulders may be very broad but the weight they now carry must and should be shared.
I’ve though about it overnight and still can’t see any way that BT were involved. They gleefully took advantage of the situation the ‘Banner-Wanker’ caused but I can’t believe there is anything more to it than that.
For the first time yesterday in the game against Everton I saw consistent bias against Arsenal by a referee. I usually find Mark Clattenburg to be very fair but yesterday he was anything but, twice we should have had a penalty and one Everton player should have received a red card, to say nothing of the endless fouls against Arsenal, that were ignored by Clattenburg throughout the game. As said consistency was the shock here it was so obvious, I’d love to hear Mike Riley explain this clear bias, but I guess pigs might fly before that happens!
They spend time showing banners and the celebs in the crowd and neglects the game.
They neglect to show the replays of incidents, at least the ones they cannot explain away with a “ref got that one right” comment.
Tony – I respect and admire a lot of your work, but you do yourself no favours with this type of rubbish. I wonder if you honestly believe it or if you are just publishing it as click-bait. I’d like to think you’re above that, but as someone who has worked so hard to prove and disprove theories about the history of the club I find it strange that you would give credence to the view you have reached. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course and if this is yours then so be it, but I find it a little distasteful to be honest and that’s my opinion of which I’m also entitled. If you don’t realise that there are plenty of Arsenal fans, many of whom travel to away games who are fed up with the management of the side then you are obviously walking round with your eyes shut. You don’t have to agree with their views and I know the intention of this site is to support the manager which is admirable and to be applauded, but don’t then make stuff up to try to discredit those who have a different take on it.
Tony
Good article. Know you don’t like folks sending in messages not related to the post, but having watched the Arzsenal Player live feed today, Clattenburg was absolute sh*te. Is there any we can get these crap referees removed ???
Linda
Good idea – can we organise banners saying how great AW is? Silly me – probably wouldn’t be allowed in the Emirates!!
COYG
Support AW
Stupid article
“a) why would you make such a banner andpay £35 or so, to stand in the Arsenal end and then display the banner?”
I feel bad for all those idiots that make banners when they want their voices to be heard in any situation, arsenal related or not. Peaceful protest is a sign of stupidity and you’d have to be an aaa to make a banner
“b) how come in an era when away fans are checked for individual components of flares (which typically are subdivided between various people in order to get them into the ground) something as big as a banner got past security?”
Banners are not illegal in most stadiums, but I’m sure all those teams are stupid for allowing their fans to air their opinions.
“c) how come the TV cameras were in exactly the right place at the right time to see the banner at the end?”
I don’t know, maybe all the cameras in the stadium should be watching the same thing. But go ahead with your conspiracy.
” But first let’s think of why someone might do this on their own.
1: Because he/she is lonely ”
Probably true. all the people in the world that believe Wenger’s time is up are all just lonely idiots.
” If TV paid you or encouraged you to display the banner and arranged the banner to be where the banner could be seen…. ”
The dude who made the banner is a season ticket holder, and he’s on twitter. But I’m pretty sure all the media outlets held a meeting and gave a random arsenal fan a banner to snuggle into a stadium that doesn’t care, and they placed a camera on that fan all game.
It’s stupid how you consider every person who disagrees with you or wants Wenger out a homeless, retarded, lonely person. I’m pretty sure you still think all black people are criminals. Lumping everybody who disagrees with you into one Big bracket because you found some dimwits amongst them is discrimination.
Jimmy Gooner I found that interesting. I raised the question of how it was that a man with a banner could get it into the ground and be in exactly the right place at the right time to be on TV without the TV company breaking the rules around fan behaviour and you call that rubbish. But then you don’t say why.
The thanks for the memories banner has been around for some years now,theres nothing illegal about having it displayed.
It is shown at the end of games to not distract from supporting the team .
It has nothing to do with the media .
Its pretty easy to get almost anything you want into a ground security checks are minimal,banners are not difficult to conceal.
It isnt wrong to display dissent to the management of the club !
http://www.arsenalvision.co.uk/articles/5261-sola.html
protests at every home game since Leicester? What’s that all about then? Attacks from all the hacks as predicted as soon as there was a drop in form, fortnately it’s not as if the attack on the club and manager was unpredicted or ingenuous.
At the same time as the AAAA and their handlers and R&W sponsers rachet up another attack on the club, as “the flop” Ozil says he’s a WOB to the funny papers, the AFC fans could clearly be heard to sing at Goodison Park:
“we’ve got Ozil…he’s Arsene Wenger’s man”
For only the Xth game in a row.
Ah well. At least we’ve got fans singing the gaffers name even if it has been on sly so that the ginormous football brains and transparent groaning trolls upon this forum wouldn’t notice. Which, when you think about it all, is very very funny.
“Venga Out…we’ve got Ozil..he’s Venga’s man”
It’s too funny. Unless you enjoy making a sectacle of yourself in public or upon someone else’s blog…
…
yet again the media memes and AAAA bile bears no relation to observable events. What the self-declared realist might define as: reality.
Thanks for the reply Tony. I didn’t address individual points in your article because frankly I didn’t have the time. The headline suggests BT are implicated. That strikes me as click-bait. You say you raised the question, but you also gave the answer in the headline and implied it quite strongly throughout the article. That’s what I found so disappointing. You’re better than that in my opinion. I’ve got a banner a lot bigger than the one which was on show at Goodison and have never had any issue with getting it in grounds all over Europe. Admittedly it’s pro-club but I’ve never been asked to open it out and display it before being allowed entry. Banners are not illegal as far as I know although you suggest otherwise. You could argue it was inciting trouble, but what banner doesn’t do that in some form to the less level-headed amongst us? Anything pro-one cub is going to incite the opposition fans. Christ, the guy you used to take the In Arsene We Trust banner which hung behind the North Bank goal was threatened on more than one occasion so should that not have been allowed in because it might have incited trouble? Of course not and I know that’s not what you were saying, but I don’t understand why you felt the banner should not have been allowed into the ground and therefore are suggesting there was something underhand about it. Why did the TV cameras pick it up at the end? Why not? There are enough cameras in the ground thesedays to pick up most things – did you see the boy being reprimanded by his father at the Southampton v Liverpool game yesterday after giving “the finger” to Sturridge – and we’ve got previous for showing banners at the end of games so I fancy most of the lenses were aimed at our fans as the players went to celebrate in front of them. Maybe you’ve been tipped off by someone you know at BT and are protecting your sources by merely suggesting there was something underhand. Fair enough if that’s the case, but in my view you didn’t do a very good job of convincing most people. Keep up the otherwise good work.
Fascinating Tony.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if BT were involved.