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June 2021

The most astonishing analysis yet: how refs apply different rules on fouls for and against different teams

I may be nuts but I’m not crazy:

Crying foul – the league table that will amaze all Arsenal fans

By Proud Kev

Whenever we mention referees, there are certain people who roll their eyes and believe we are all conspiracy nut jobs. For what it is worth I may be nuts but I do not easily buy into conspiracy theories.

So putting conspiracies to one side, I thought I would research the subject regarding fouls and look at the actual statistics. Once I had the statistics available and added them to my own held views, I wanted to produce some evidence based opinion.

Question: Is there a ‘type’ of team that commits the most fouls?

I had always assumed the answer to this was yes.

What never fails to surprise me is the number of obvious fouls that get ignored, despite the referee standing in a perfect position. Every team will be affected by this and by applying the rules of averages you would expect this to even out.  However, I have always believed that the English approach to the game favours the physical teams. We know that compared to the continental referees, our officials allow a more robust game but was this application of the rules being carried out consistently?

I assumed that possession based teams with their more technical players and with more of the ball would attract more fouls. Conversely, I expected the teams that have less of the ball would commit more fouls, as they are working harder to recover the ball and need to find parity. For example, the tactic of rotational fouling.

At this point, it is also useful to remind ourselves of Paul Scholes and the Neville Brothers recent comments, in which they advocated the ‘smashing’ of skilful players. Comments that reinforce the British values of the game we invented.

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Adding all these things together led me to an assumption based hypothesis. However, when I collected the information and compiled my league tables, I realised two and two doesn’t always make four.

How good are you at predictions?

Let’s play a little game and see how well you can predict the answers to the following questions. Be honest and see how accurate your predictions are. Can you:

  1. Name the 5 PL teams with the highest combined possession/pass completion stats
  2. Name the PL team with the lowest combined possession/completion stats
  3. Name the 5 PL teams who commit the most fouls
  4. Name the 5 PL teams who are fouled the most
  5. Name the Premier League team which benefits the least from the referees ‘foul’ decisions.

You may find it useful to consider these factors:

Possession and pass completion

A possession based team naturally has more of the ball. On that basis alone, you would expect the team with the highest possession stats to receive the most tackles. When you add pass completion stats, the same principal applies. Likewise, teams with the lowest possession and pass completion stats see less of the ball and therefore may need to make more tackles. An alternative view may be that the reason the team has so much of the ball is because they tackle more.


We know that it is an accepted tactic to kick better players. English football embraces a physical game, with our referees offering an alternative rule book to our continental cousins. This has been proved with evidence provided previously. So it would be logical to accept that teams containing more skilful players will be more likely to attract fouls. Wouldn’t it?

Now let’s apply some weighting:

Interpretation of the rules

I wondered why so many obvious fouls are not being awarded to Arsenal. Would this have a factor on the results?

The foul on Ozil in the Swansea game was in front of the referee but he waved play on. The way Costa was allowed to manhandle and barge Koscielny in front of Mike Dean without penalty (he received a retrospective ban). Jack being put into hospital by a late McNair tackle, again in front of Dean, with the referee awarding nothing more than a goal kick. Could these errors of misjudgement affect the results?

So before we reach any conclusions, here are the possession and pass completions stats.


This table shows the current possession stats of all teams in the Premier League. What you may find surprising is that the current league leaders have the third lowest possession of the ball:

Pos Team Possession %
1 Arsenal 57.7
2 Man City 57.5
3 Spuds 56.9
4 Man United 56.7
5 Liverpool 56.6
18 Leicester 43.7


On their own these are interesting numbers. So let’s now look at the current pass completion stats:


Pos Team Pass completion
1 Arsenal 84.0
2 Man City 83.6
3 Man Utd 82.9
4 Everton 82.2
5 Chelsea 82.0
20 Leicester 69.3



Arsenal and Man City are top of both possession and pass completion stats, which may not be much of a surprise. Both teams are the only ones that appear in the top 5 of both possession and pass completion. So they have the ball more and retain the ball than anyone else.

Leicester are at the bottom of the pass completion table and also appear third bottom on possession. The current league leaders not only don’t seem to have much of the ball, they also appear unable to pass it accurately to a team mate.

So logic would suggest that fouls committed and fouls received would show a direct correlation to whether or not a team has much of the ball or the type of game they play.

In order to establish this, I looked at the number of fouls teams being awarded to each team and the number of fouls each team is committing. 


I have collected data that shows the number of fouls being awarded by match referees. This data has been used to formulate three league tables. The first shows the top 5 teams that have been awarded the most fouls. The second table shows the top 5 teams committing the most fouls. The final league table combines the data from both and produces a top 5 based on who benefits the least from the referees assessment of what constitutes a foul.


Pos Team Games Played Fouls awarded
1 Spuds 30 366
2 Crystal Palace 29 363
3 Man United 29 360
4 Aston Villa 30 354
5 Norwich 30 344
10 Leicester 30 316
19 Arsenal 29 266

So Arsenal players receive the second fewest fouls. Leicester, a team bottom of the combined possession/pass completion stats have been awarded 50 more fouls than Arsenal. Spurs are the most sinned against team, having received exactly 100 more fouls than Arsenal. These are not small margins.

Based on these stats, Stoke, West Bromwich Albion, Sunderland, Aston Villa are all fouled more than us.  The stats suggest that 18 Premier League teams are fouled more than our players.

Who are the teams making the most fouls: 


Pos Team Games Played Fouls Committed
1 Chelsea 29 376
2 Swansea 30 368
3 Arsenal 29 354
4 Crystal Palace 29 350
5 West Ham 29 348
13 Spuds 30 319
18 Leicester 30 286

Again the numbers are surprising. Arsenal, despite having more of the ball and spending less time chasing it have the third highest number of fouls awarded against them. Leicester, who are bottom of the league on possession and pass completion and therefore spend more time tackling, have committed the third lowest number of fouls.

This is getting interesting. So what happens when you combine fouls committed with fouls received?   


This is the current league standings based on the difference between fouls committed and fouls awarded. This is one table you do not want to be top of:

Pos Team Played Fouls Awarded Fouls Committed Rating
1 Arsenal 29 266 354 -88
2 Everton 28 234 320 -86
3 West Ham 29 283 348 -65
4 Swansea 30 309 368 -59
5 Chelsea 29 324 376 -52
9 Man City 29 307 315 -8
13 Leicester 30 316 286 30
17 Spuds 30 366 319 47

So Arsenal are top of the league at last.  Unfortunately, this is one league table you do not want to be top of. The team who benefit the LEAST from FOUL PLAY is ARSENAL .

The negative rating of -88 is huge in a game of small margins.

Manchester City, a similar team to Arsenal in the way they play the game, are sitting midway with fouls committed and fouls awarded almost equal. A rating of -8 is what you would expect.

Meanwhile, the teams in the top 2 places in the Premier League have positive totals. Spurs in particular have benefited from our referees generosity, in fact by more than 135 fouls when compared to Arsenal. This is a huge difference that may or may not translate into points but should raise a few eyebrows. 

So what does this all mean?

Based on the evidence collected we can say a few things based on the data:

  1. Arsenal have the highest possession stats
  2. Arsenal have the highest pass completion stats
  3. Spurs have the third highest possession stats
  4. Leicester have the lowest combined pass completion & possession stats
  5. Arsenal players commit the third highest number of fouls
  6. Arsenal players receive the second fewest number of fouls
  7. Leicester players commit the third fewest fouls
  8. Spurs players are the most fouled
  9. Arsenal are the team that benefits the least from foul decisions

I had successfully predicted the top 2 teams based on possession. I had no idea Leicester would have the lowest possession and pass completion stats that was a surprise considering their league position.

However, the biggest shock was seeing Arsenal at the top of the league table based on foul decisions. I had no idea we received the second fewest number of fouls because that did not translate into what I have seen. Likewise, do we really commit the third highest number of fouls, more than 17 other Premier League teams?


Whatever way you look at the numbers, they don’t seem to add up.  I believe the above provides further evidence that Arsenal players are treated different from other clubs.

We have the situation where the rules of the game here are interpreted different to on the continent; a situation that encourages robust, physical challenges with less protection to technical players. We know ex-players who provide our punditry encourage physical challenges and sneer at possession football.

We know that Ozil being grabbed around the neck and pulled backwards was deemed by the referee and Danny Murphy as a fair tackle. We also know that when Paddy McNair put Jack Wilshere into hospital with a reckless tackle, Mike Dean thought it wasn’t even a foul. The same referee thought Costa grabbing Koscielny’s face and barging him to the ground was acceptable. We know the head of PGMO, Mike Riley, ignored the rules of the game in the 50th game and allowed Manchester United to kick lumps out of Reyes and Ashley Cole. We also know what happened to Eduardo, Diaby and Ramsey.

Yet Arsenal have been awarded the second fewest number of fouls so far this season. Less than Stoke, WBA, Sunderland, Aston Villa, Leicester etc. Are we really expected to believe this?

Whatever way you look at it, none of this makes any sense unless you reach the obvious conclusion. Referees are somehow being more lenient towards fouls made on our players by the opposition, and less tolerant towards challenges we make.

Now you may want to call me nuts but I really don’t think I am the crazy one.


Publisher’s footnote.

This article is exactly what Untold Arsenal was set up to publish: original research which makes new and previously untold revealtions, and I’m really pleased that Proud Kev chose Untold as the medium through which it would be revealed.

If you feel all this work is worthwhile, could you please do one thing to help?  If you have a Facebook account go onto Untold Arsenal on Facebook and Like and Share this story.  I do hope you have a moment to do that.

93 comments to The most astonishing analysis yet: how refs apply different rules on fouls for and against different teams

  • Va Cong

    our club needs to do something for every single game for all matches nice reply montage for the season and then see how the even it out?

  • colario

    Excellent post.

    This may appear to be OT bit it is related.

    How old is Riley?

  • Humphrey

    This is why English clubs will never do well in Europe.lets wait and see how Leicester fairs in Europe next season.

  • rich

    Proudkev- you’ve outdone yourself.

    I would never have thought of delving into those stats because I wouldn’t have believed they could be so ridiculous.

    Thought they made a better effort to disguise what they were up to by padding things with unimportant fouls for us and saving themselves for key decisions against us.

    Not so. It appears that as well as all the funny business on key fouls they are constantly misusing and misapplying the rules on all fouls.

    I bet you won’t find another club in Europe with a similar profile for possession and passing and fouls for and against.

    I expect even A Madrid, who have a lot of the ball in plenty of their games, good passers, and are notoriously physical and dirty- i.e exactly the type of team our stats seem to belong to- do not have a combined fouls score like that.

    Makes you wonder what the club thinks as they follow all this with the stats company they own!

    I’ll leave it there but I could ramble on for a long time about how shocking those figures are.

    Well done, Proud kev.

  • goonermikey


    I’m a little confused here. The tables I use show Arsenal as having committed the second lowest number fouls and having been fouled the fourth highest. Can you tell us your source please?

  • Samuel Akinsolas Adebosin

    I watched Chelsea vs West Hammers yesterday and saw how the referee was inventing fouls in favour of Chelsea which allowed Chelsea unbeaten run under Guus Hiddink in the Premier League to continue.

    I think Arsenal MUST learn to play through their remaining 8 BPL games conscious of the fact that the match officials can be anti-Arsenal in their officiating and therefore deal with that negative action by converting their chances into goals which will make them win their matches whether the match officials like it or not.

    But if they continue to miss converting their chances in to goals which they have in a match, those misses chances will give room to the match officials to do anti-Arsenal officiating in the match. And possible turn the table too against Arsenal in the match.

    I think the Boss assertion at a post press conference when he said, maybe the match referee too should come in into the press conference room like the 2 manages are compelled by law to do to answer questions from the media on the stewardship of their teams during the match, should be implemented by the FA.

    As it currently stands, the match officials have been getting away with the atrocities they’ve committed in their match officiating during a match without having to face the media to be taken-on on some of their unfair or unjustified decisions they had made during a match. And even the 2 managers at the press conference should be free to ask the match officials to explain why they took such an such decision against their teams which they’ve considered inappropriate decision. It is only when the FA does this, would the deliberate bias match officiating in the Premier League by the match officials can be reduced to the barest minimum.

  • Josif

    Proud Kev,

    I think you didn’t read the stats well. I use data from Squawka and it said yesterday that Arsenal have committed second fewest number of fouls (264), Everton have committed 232 (yesterday’s games not included). Spuds have been the biggest thugs (366) but Jon Wilson of Guardian praised that as a proof of their determination, steelness or whatsoever.

    You probably switched the stats.

  • serge

    Here we go again. gonermikey & josif have come up with alternative stats. Where’s the truth?

  • serge

    goonermikey. Sorry!

  • Josif

    Much has been made about pass completion and possession but the truth is, Leicester have played the most direct football and 4-4-2 counter-attack formation. The first thing means they try a lot of risky passes that mostly don’t come up with result and the second that they have two players in the middle which means they cede possession to the opponents who mostly use three in the middle.

    Anyway, it’s easy to go through official stats from each of our game to confirm ProudKev made a mistake regarding fouls.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Very interesting read…..not sure how to explain this data….other than different treatment.
    So basically…..whatever our players do , they cannot win.
    Then…..if you factor in penalties……

    I have a word for what is going on with Leicester….suspicious. Not saying they don’t have good players, they do…..but they also have thugs like drinkwater who get away with things Costa would probably only dream of.
    Then, their unusual lack of fatigue.
    Seems like the Spuds are getting equally favourable treatment.
    And not a word from the media.
    Explains why Wenger won’t sign beasts in MF or Cd.
    As to why the club won’t act I often wonder. Maybe as recently posted, wenger is aware and just sees this as another challenge, maybe our silence buys us something that our owner and board like. They way West Ham were done yesterday…..maybe the refs are ensuring they don’t finish in the top four…..a place reserved for us….as our reward……sorry, maybe that is a bit conspiratorial!

  • laos gooner

    The astonishing aspect is that the media do not have any discussion of this. I found that even in a communist country where I lived and worked for 9 years comments and questions about their national team which I raised at post match press conferences were reported. The team was chosen according to players parents political position rather than merit. If such countries can accept critisism of the future elite why in a democracy are journalists not doing their jobs. I was never excluded from any press conference nor prohibited from asking my questions. At all times we were aware of the total control of the political regime yet still free to comment on what we observed. It can only suggest that there is something going on with compliance of the media. Now in my coaching role I can pull players to one side and highlight poor challenges when they have been made. We talk about real incidents and nobody pretends they did not happen. If this is part of the amateur game why does it seem to be missing at “so-called” professional levels?

  • Josif|season-2015/2016#0#90#any#any#season#1#all-matches#suffer#desc#total

    This is a table that includes yesterday’s matches.

    Chelsea have suffered more fouls than any other team in the league (375). Arsenal are fourth behind Chelsea, Swansea and West Ham. Norwich players have been fouled in the fewest occasions this season (242 and I’m positive not a single of those fouls included pushing a player in the camera pit). Liverpool are second least fouled, Leicester are third and Manchester United fourth.

    Crystal Palace have leap-frogged Spuds on the list of the biggest thugs in the league (374) but Spuds have a game in hand. Spuds, Villa and Man United are 2nd, 3rd and 4th respectively. Everton (239), Arsenal (274), Bournemouth (294) and West Ham (297) respectively have committed fewest fouls in the league.

  • Al

    Great work ProudKev. I don’t really think if PK got some numbers mixed up ( if he did, as I didn’t check) in only one aspect matters that much, sure his numbers on possession, pass completion, etc., still hold.

    I’m going to copy and paste the below from comments I posted under the ref preview below, as I feel they’re more appropriate here. And they support PK’s findings;

    “Now whoscored have the following stats for this season on reds and yellows;
    Arsenal players have received 33 yellows and 4 red cards, Leicester players received 42 yellows and 1 red, Tottenham 58 yellows and 0 reds, City 48 yellows and 0 reds. So, from the least number of yellows Arsenal players get punished the most.

    Obviously the yellows for the other teams would be much higher if they were treated like Arsenal players who are carded at their first offence, but that’s besides the point. Given that red cards usually have a huge bearing on outcome of match, just as penalties, can anyone say the referees aren’t influencing the outcome of the title race? These figures are worrying, and something needs to be done.

    March 19, 2016 at 8:04 am

    Penalties (Last 3 months)
    Leicester 5
    Tottenham 4
    City 3
    Arsenal 0

    Red cards (All season)
    Arsenal 4
    Leicester 1
    Tottenham 0
    City 0

    Very interesting tables above. Would make a nice banner, to hold up in the stadium I think 🙂 I think it’s also very interesting that the penalties table almost mirrors the current league table! These are facts, as Rafa once said, and noone can argue with these.”

    So as can be seen above, Arsenal players get punished the most; 3 reds in 33 yellows while spud players committed 58 yellows with not a single red. When it comes to penalties Arsenal’s tally for the whole season is less than any of their rivals’ tallies from the last 3 months alone. Isn’t this sufficient proof that shows Arsenal players are treated differently to their rivals? It most definitely is.

  • Al

    Sorry, it should have read “4 reds in 33 yellows”, I blame the small keypads on these phones 🙂

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Surprising stats regarding cards and penalties.
    Even a blind man can see Arseanl are being robbed off the PL title this year.

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Interesting read but cud u pls reply to Josif who has referref to Squwaka stats that your figure work have some errors.

  • Al

    Laos gooner
    Agree with you completely. At the risk of apoearing to mix politics with sport, I also spent half of my adult life in a third world dictatorship, but things like these were talked about openly without any risk of ridicule. If anyone wanted to air their comments/displeasure in what they saw as favouritism in sport you would be sure to read about it in the press. There was state controlled media, as well as independent media, and I don’t know if that distinction made both try to compete with each other and report things as they were. Bear in mind fredom of speech was only a token, but they still did a better job at it than what I see here. Here there is no such clear distinction apart from observations that some papers lean to the left while others don’t, but when it comes to biased shamblic reporting they’re all singing from the same book! It is shocking. I never thought I’d find the media in a true democracy like England failing in such an obvious manner, yet it does.

    At least if there was acknowledgement of the shortcomings then that would make some sense, but there is zero acknowledgement of that. All you get is this picture of we are not corrupt or bent or whatever, yet there are these obvious anomalies screaming at you, crying to be investigated and reported on. And yet noone does anything. Whoever tries to is laughed out of town. Everything stinks of cover ups….

  • JohnW

    Thanks Proud Kev,
    I looked at Leicester game yesterday’s and realized how Huth and their midfield foul all the time. I was also asking myself, why don’t they get cards often? I also realized that may be someone already thinks Leicester winning the league is much better than Arsenal taking it.
    Therefore I came to the conclusion that Leicester will win the PL, but England is on course to losing the fourth CL spot. Why? Because in yesterday’s game alone, Leicester would have struggled to stay with 9 players on the pitch. The kind of fouls they commit will be severely punished next season in the CL or even the Europa League.
    May be then, Mr. Riley will wake up.

  • Usama Zaka

    Top class work ProudKev. I am also working something similar for the end of season.

    I have two questions. What sources did you used? and by what calculation did you do to establish the final rating table?

    P.S After watching complete matches by myself and compiling stats, I don’t trust sites Squawka and Opta anymore. There is a significant difference always.

  • Zedsaunt

    Fouls are a difficult criteria to establish. It is up to the referee.

    Penalties can decide games. Each penalty can be a game changer.

    I’m happy to see that Leicester have only given away one penalty this season. This shows their determination to stay within the rules inside their penalty area. Once inside their penalty area, all differing interpretations of what is a foul, and what is not a foul, cease to exist. Iron clad discipline rules.

    The Premier League does not lie.

  • serge


    Your stats are in contradiction of those supplied by Squawka. What is your source?

  • Al

    While you ‘eagerly’ await a response from PK, what do u make of the stats I provided above 🙂

  • serge


    I don’t know about waiting “eagerly”, but I do object to misinformation. This blog is getting more like “The Ministry Of Truth” all the time.
    You quote a reliable source for your yellow/red card comparisons and I agree with you. We’re being cheated on that front.

  • @zedsaunt. Wow! Fouls are difficult to establish? Wow! Your last paragraph; the premier league does not lie? Wow again! Just that they have not been caught lying does not mean they don’t. With zero accountability outside of their dark chambers, nobody takes them up on their decisions like managers are, no independent body to check their claims. How will they not claim to be the GOD of football? This happens only in football and English officiating of the English game is shored up with arrogant claims like yours. One day, the wind of change will blow and we’ll see what people like you have to say.

  • Col

    A 2 minute glance at the Squawka stats at first sight makes a nonsense of this article. I hope that Proudkev can explain how his figures indicate something completely opposite to Squawka.

    In general terms, the obsession with referees is making this site quite boring. I personally think that referees are generally lenient (in this country) towards thuggish behavior by less skillful teams, and that Arsenal suffer for this disproportionately because they tend to have small, lightweight players who are inevitably more fragile. I don’t think there is an active conspiracy. It is the inevitable consequence of trying to play in a continental style in this league, and its attendant refereeing culture, exacerbated by Wenger’s purist philosophy precluding big lumps like Felliani. Admiral in many ways, I agree, but it has consequences.

    I come here because I am interested in balanced discussion, rather than endless Wenger bashing, but now every other article and most of the comments seem to be about referees. Either that or how the aaa eat babies for breakfast or something.

  • finsbury

    I’ve been looking at penalty stats for the last or previous decade in the PL. Total average total of penalties awarded in the league this season is down by 25% compared to the previous decade.

    That’s a remarkable drop.

    Given that high differential then therefore with the high number of awards to LFC this season we are witnessing a significant difference when compared to other teams this past decade. To be clear, no team or club in the league whether champions or otherwise have had such a high ratio or statistical ‘bonus’ over the same period, the last decade. It is: remarkable. A fairy tale.

    I’ll forward the data to Untold HQ and Usma and ProudKev will be welcome to incorporate it with to the other information they’ve been collecting.

    Let’s be clear: Clattenburg was happy to humiliate himself and the Sport itself in front of all of the watching and indeed paying public. If the AAAA like to drone on especially upon this blog about their financial expertise and wizardry then the average football fan has the right to ask why is it that FUFA officials appear to making up the easy to understand rules of the sport (written C1850 regarding such offenses such as “hacking” etc which were outlawed oh about 150 years ago). PGMOB rules football. It’s football Jim, but not as we know it.

  • finsbury

    LCFC > LFC (typo above)

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Even if we dont accept PK stats how would you deny the following incidents.

    1) Ramseys offside call agisnt Liverpool at Ems
    2) Gabriel sending off against Chelsea
    3) Drinkwater bone breaking challenge on Ramsey
    4) Blatant fowls on Sanchez at Stoke by Adam johnson last year and at Norwich this year both were not called.
    5)Leicester 10 penalties is an icing on the cake to gift them the title this year.
    What else?
    I have mentioned a few infact the list is long.

  • Zedsaunt

    Stan mate, maybe I should have put one of those yellow suns next to it!!

    It’s all a pisstake.

    With the Leicester City fairytale, their penalty allocation is the dark side.

  • Andy Mack

    colario, Riley was born in December 64 according to wikipedia

  • finsbury

    AFC have the most possession and the most touches inside the opponents box, and the least penalties as a resultant ratio. This has been happening for some years. Choose your sauces (garlic or chilli for me), you’ll get the same result. Or if like the AAAA you don’t like numbers (such as goals or points etc.) you can just use your eyes 🙂

  • Andrew Crawshaw

    I cannot comment on the stats that ProudKev used for his article other than to say that none of the readily available sources for football statistics ever seem to agree on anything. They all seem to classify incidents in their own unique way (probably to make them stand out from the crowd of other statistics). I was trying to get some usable statistics for an article on Leicester that I started this last week and in the end gave up as I couldn’t find what I was looking for. I am aware that some stats show Leicester as having the lowest possession, poorest passing and highest numbers in terms of penalties awarded and red cards awarded against opponents but haven’t been able to find them. I was also looking for data on the distances their players have run in the course of a game over the past two seasons. If anyone can help me with a source for these numbers I would be most grateful.

  • finsbury

    that’s why I looked at stats on total number of penalties awarded and the trend over recent seasons. whether right or wrong awards they were awarded and they’ve had an impacting the points column.

    And there’s been a 25% drop in total numbers awarded this season relative to the previous decade in conjunction with the high number of awards to LCFC. That is a remarkable conjunction for a team who do not have as many touches inside the box as many other teams in the league, and it’s fair and reasonable that football fans remark and discuss such a trend.

  • Zedsaunt

    Further to ”highest numbers in terms of penalties awarded and red cards awarded against opponents” when it comes to Leicester City, just a simple sheet detailing who was the referee in each of their games would help. That’s not the easiest thing to find.

  • Rosicky@Arsenal

    Forgot Eric Diers shirt pull on Giroud for a second offence plumb infront of Oliver.

    Open your eyes Col

  • Josif


    Teams who cede possession usually have a higher distance covered because they’re forced to chase the ball. In 2011-12 Dinamo played against Real Madrid and their manager was bragging about how they out-ran Real. In reality, they were chasing Ronaldo, Ozil et al for 90 minutes.

  • dan

    Bt spourt’s ref analysis by bullshit merchant Howard Webb, I recall webb sending off Eboue for a foul on Rio Donkey Ferdinand, a season later Donkey fouled our player in exactly the same way and the prick Webb stopped the game to have word with donkey, the crowd was flabbergasted and yet nothing was said in commentary or studio pundits.

  • Al

    Fair enough. I had said ‘eagerly’ coz you’d asked PK the same question in under 2 hrs, kinda suggested you were “waiting with bated breath” 🙂 Glad you’re agree we are being cheated. If you go back to PK’s article again you’ll find he is saying there is huge disparity between the way Arsenal players are punished, and these figures support that. He may have ‘misquoted’ a figure but surely we can’t crucify him for that? When the crux of his argument still holds?

    It kind of reminds of a ref review Walter and Usama did on the Leicester match, and highlighted over 27 mistakes the ref had made. Tom, for reasons best known to him, chose to pick on how Walter had described the angle Monreal’s foot was pointing in and the action leading to that. And he appeared to discredit the whole report on that basis. Surely we shoul take things into context, where someone presents tons of figures or evidence we shouldn’t appear to latch on one detail to discredit all the hard they’ll have done. I’m not saying PK made an error, as I haven’t seen anywhere where he has admitted to that, but just saying where there’s a high number of figures a typo or slight miscalculation is bound to slip in. That’s the whole point why there’s things like peer reviews or proof reading, it’s to catch such errors before something goes to print.

    I still don’t think your assessment that this “blog is getting more like “The Ministry Of Truth” all the time.” is correct. I’ll stick my neck on the line and say 99% of the articles I read here are evidence-based, and I’ve not read any article that was disputing those facts, presenting their evidence as well. It’s mainly opinion based dismissals that I see here. Not having a go at you, serge, just saying we should appreciate someone taking a huge chuck out of their valuable time to trawl the internet gathering stats, that should they miss one thing it shouldn’t be a big deal 🙂

  • rich

    I think the stats may be wrong folks.

    Had a quick look earlier after someone had raised doubts. First article I saw, from not long ago, showed Spurs had committed most fouls this year (312 think it was).

    So they might be the wrong way around.

    Best to clear it up, Proud kev. If a mistake was made, don’t worry about it. Done that sort of thing in the past myself.

    They do look too good to be true for our purposes, when you think about it. Even pgmol wouldn’t play it like that, surely, as it would be just too noticeable.

    Seemed especially believable, and welcome (for me those stats were potential killer proof), after yesterday’s shocker from Clattenberg where he let so many fouls against us go.

    Anyway, anyone with the time and skills for the challenge should try doing something with penalty stats in some combination with possession, shots, goals scored and eventual league points (ideally across other leagues,too, but that must be a challenge too far).

    Abundantly clear that there should, over time, be a strong correlation between leagues’ most attacking teams and penalties gained; likewise the best teams (points) in the league should almost always be near the top of penalty charts.

    I’d expect us to stand out like a sore thumb if anyone is able to combine those stats. Gave it a go once but realised I didn’t quite have the skills for it half-way through.

  • Micko

    If, as you say, refs are more lenient towards thuggish behaviour why was it that when we had Vieira playing for us he was quite regularly (I actually mis-typed that originally and it read refularly which actually seems more apt!) sent off?
    Has refereeing changed from what it was 10 years ago?

  • para

    I would really like to find out the true reason why someone can motivate the whole media to be anti-Arsenal.

    I suppose no one is going to come out and say it, meanwhile they continue to disfavour Arsenal.

    Arsenal is not reacting, and this causes them to attack even more.

    At least Untold is highlighting and gathering data that proves it all.

  • Andy Mack

    Col, we don’t have anywhere near as many physically small players anymore. Yes there was a time of ‘The 2-faced spaniard’, ‘The 2-faced Belarussian’ and Rosicky when we had a particularly small team with lots of 5ft 6″/7″ players but we’ve much less of them now (apart from HB they’re mostly injured). Most of the squad is 6ft+ now. Maybe not much+ but we’re no longer notably smaller than other teams.

  • Andy Mack

    If these figures could be proven then it would be good to hear Everton and AFC (maybe even WHU and Swansea as well) making some kind of approach to the PL about the very odd numbers involved.

  • Pete

    Surprising – yet not that surprising. This is the inevitable outcome of the refereeing analysis. It is just so rotten. Becoming ever more disillusioned. Riley’s PGMO is a total blight on the game. He must go. Now.

  • Fantastic report PK, thank you for taking the time to write this.

    Yet another piece of the puzzle and revealing. If people cannot or will not see for themselves what is right in front of their eyes either but stat’s or watching Arsenal games with their own eye’s and watching the rest of the top PL teams playing on a different playing field to us then what hope do this team really have..
    For those who come on this site and then complain about what they see, why the hell come here when you know this site was set up by Tony Walter and the rest of the people who write for Untold and doing a fantastic job may I add just to add criticism with no evidence to back up your arguments.
    If you don’t like what you see written by people committed to Arsene Wenger and Arsenal Football Club to find the truth as to why Arsenal are not playing on an even playing field then please do not come as you will never like what you see, so really what is the point.

  • Very interesting analysis. It raises more questions than it answers. Is there a suggestion that our failure to win the title over the last 12 years is linked to not being awarded fouls ? If so what is the relationship between fouls being awarded and wins ? If referees are unwilling to award fouls to Arsenal why ? Either its a conspiracy or its just chance. If its a conspiracy why ?

  • Mandy Dodd

    I prefer the words cheating and criminality to conspiracy

  • bjtgooner

    Excellent analysis PK.

    While the PGMO have shafted us season after season, particularly since Riley was made General Manager, this season the PGMO seem to be really determined and consistent in its efforts to ensure we win nothing.

    The determination shown by the PGMO to screw us in every match may well be a panic response to the defeat of Chelski in the Charity Shield and the realisation (in the slow brains found in high places) that AW had put together a really good team – or it may be simply a continuation of the efforts of many unholy groups – all of whom wish to undermine (by any foul means) AFC – each group having its own vested interest.

  • hilbert

    Listen to what The Great and Mighty Sir Alex Fergusson told his players to do against Arsenal , probably with the full support if pgmo. The depths to which those cheats sank, just shows how this trampling, this thuggery has come to be so indocrinated by the English that it is now normal, acceptable, praiseworthy, intelligent…

    My heart will always go out to Arsene, who knows, he could have won so much more.
    But what irks me is the temerity of some of the so called legends to join in the wenger/arsenal bashing just coz it is the in thing now, fucking morons,fucking half-wits

    “… At their
    place, we felt a
    bit invincible, like
    they’re not going
    to hurt us and
    we’re going to
    hurt them, and
    it’d either be
    physically or
    through goals. We
    really tore them
    apart at their

    …”he said
    we’d beat them
    easier and more
    effectively if we
    overrun them,
    them, trampled
    all over them, and
    that’s what we
    invariably did
    against Arsenal.”

  • Jerry

    Good work Proudkev, but the tables T3 and T4 are mixed up (Data in T3 is actually Fouls Committed). It’s an honest mistake, happens to all of us.

    What’s truly shocking is that even though Arsenal commit the 2nd fewest amount fouls and Arsenal has received the lowest amount of yellow cards, Arsenal have received the 2nd HIGHEST amount of red cards! (Stats from whoscored).

    Keep up the hard work. Mistakes happen, it’s how we pick ourselves up after that matters.

  • Josif


    Now, I think I have your attention.

    1) This PK’s honest mistake proves that people should be careful when they make conclusions before checking and doublechecking facts. As they say, measure it three times before making a cut. Proud Kev used a phrase “crying a foul” but if things published on this blog happen to be taken as an evidence in some official Arsenal FC attempt to right the wrongs made by PGMO (who knows, maybe we’ll see it one day), mistakes like this one ruin credibility of the whole project.

    2) It was also a proof that most commentators at Untold Arsenal tend to take things they read here for granted without making a check of their own. Just for the record, I don’t exclude myself here because I’d have taken it for granted if I hadn’t checked the very same statistics quite a few times this year to prove that the media and PGMO like thugs from Spuds even if they make more fouls per game than anyone else.

    3) About penalties… Arsenal got six penalties in 2012-13 (Arteta scored five, missed the one against Fulham) when we hadn’t been any threat to United’s title challenge. In 2013-14 we had spent 128 days on top of the table and got three penalties in the league (Arteta scored two, Giroud one). In 2014-15 we had our title challenge ended before it even started and after that moment we got six penalties (all dispatched by Santi – hell, even Dean gave us a penalty at Etihad!). In 2015-16 we have been around the top, still with a remote possibility to win the league. We have had two penalties (Cazorla missed, Giroud scored). 30 games, two penalties.

    Compare it with Champions League. In 2012-13 we didn’t have a single penalty. In 2013-14 we had two penalties in eight games (both missed by Ozil). In 2014-15 we had a penalty against Anderlecht (Arteta scored). In 2015-16 we had a penalty against Olympiacos (Giroud scored).

    So, in 144 league matches since the beginning of 2012-13 we have had 17 penalties (8.47 games per penalty). In the same period we have played 32 games and got four penalties (8 games per penalty).

    It’s obvious that number of penalties given gets halved once we are in the title race and that European referees are more likely to call a penalty for us than the English ones.

  • Zedsaunt

    Everything comes into place:

    How to analyse the PGMO over a season, Leicester a glaring example.

    How to ”win” a penalty as the BBC describe it.

    How to have a ”mediocre” ambition. Will ManC, ManU, Chelski all qualify for the Champions League?

    How to build a football team? – Chelski? Man City? ManU?

    Listen to the usual shower it’s as easy as shelling peas, except for a certain Frenchman. Reality bites.

    A great site this.

  • Yes this is a great site and that certain Frenchman is valued and respected here and always will be. Now at the top of the page it tell’s you just what this site stands for so why people come on here just to stir the pot is beyond me. Why waste all the time and energy on negative comments when you already know what answer you are likely to get. Time is to precious to waste and that’s why I would not go on an anti Arsenal or Wenger site. But each to their own.

  • a wonderful site, wonderful football club and a wonderful manager, life’s good.

  • Al

    Thanks for pointing that out. I’d not bothered to check myself but just done so now and it’s easy to see PKs figures are correct but they were just mixed up; i.e., labeled incorrectly. Clearly an honest mistake…, and to think some are trying to use such an innocent and obvious error to discredit this site…. Really?? The way PK was challenged again and again here for his sources by different people made me think his figures were some completely random figures that had no relation whatsoever to those quoted on the sites others were referring to.

  • Pete

    Josif – Yes, did detailed analysis of penalties some time back (think article 43333?). Anyway, the core conclusion is that up to 2009 we were awarded/conceded penalties in the approximate ratio one would expect (i.e. proportionate to goals scored/conceded). Since 2009 we have conceded far more penalties than we have been awarded – although our goals scored/conceded have been about the same.

    What happened in 2009? Mike Riley was appointed Head of PGMO.

    Others who have studied this more deeply or have a better memory I think have recollected that Riley wasn’t too bad a ref for us – until Game 50. I think Arsene went for him after that game and Riley has never forgiven him. And although Riley was relatively neutral towards Arsenal prior to Game 50 he always had a reputation as being pro ManU.

    And so it goes on – most recently with Sanchez’s non-awarded penalty yesterday. Et tu Clattenburg?

    It is statistically inevitable that the PGMO referees are biased against Arsenal. The chances of all these decisions being randomly unfavourable to Arsenal are completely non-existent. Therefore there is bias/cheating/conspiracy/criminality. THERE IS NO DOUBT AT ALL ABOUT THIS.

    The only thing we don’t know is why and we don’t have a smoking gun.

    Believe me, I am not one for conspiracy theories and would love to put it down to bad luck. But that can not be the reality. We have been consistently cheated since 2009.

  • Josif


    Yes, I agree. Nobody questions that. Too many decisions have been going against us in the last decade. I was just saying that PK didn’t provide a good evidence today because his whole article was based on a completely mixed-up stats.

    That doesn’t mean PK is not a good contributor. He is.

    Just, when you make a case, make sure your evidences are good. If you can’t find the smoking gun for Al Capone’s murders, focus on the evidences you have for his tax evasion.

  • Menace

    Cheated since 2009 ? – I remember being cheated in the undefeated season. The three wost were Riley, Wiley & Bennett. The systematic cheating was so predictable that fellow supporters were shocked that I was able to walk them through what was going to happen. We won despite them. It was not right then & it is worse now.

    The PGMOL was organised to do the bidding of the hidden masters in 2001. They have morphed into the cheating northern bastards that we see today.

  • JamesO

    All this debate about pk’s piece. And as great as it is and all of his other articles are. It is the referee who decides what a free kick is.
    Just going back to yesterday’s game, the stats will never show the non calls on the fouls on Sanchez(notice no yellow card), the blatant arm across Bellerin, the off the ball trip on Ground and the most obvious of non corners after Ospina’s injury.
    The whole of the second half the referee, Clattenburg, tried to get them back in game. Everton were too useless to use it to there advantage.
    It stinks. You don’t have to go back to game 50. It happens every match.

  • JamesO

    My favourite piece of refereeing is the ‘advantage to arsenal’ after a clear yellow card pull or foul (and again no free kick stat), for which the referee never remembers to go back and book the player.

  • Pat

    Glad Jerry cleared up the question about the headings in Proudkev’s article. Easy to make a mistake like that. None of our article writers are paid to do it and I for one am grateful they do all that hard work to inform us about the horrors of the Premier League and its referees.

    Et tu Clattenburg? Yes indeed.

  • Pat

    And thanks to hilbert for those quotes from Ferguson. So clear what we are up against, because that’s the way the PGMO still think.

  • Mandy Dodd

    Very true menace. The PGMOL do the bidding of scudamore and the premier league… to who they do the bidding for, we can only imagine.
    Riley is now,as he always was, a puppet for something bigger, a weak., willing , greedy and compromised man who probably has problems sleeping at night, not for guilt at what he has done, but more the enormity of what he may be caught up in….and possibly has no way out of, and what happens should he ever be caught, because when it all falls apart, he will be in the dock before his masters ever will

  • Mandy Dodd

    Whether it be conspiracy, or criminality…….if you want the answers to most things, as they said in Washington in the 1970s , just follow the money.
    Leicester winning the title would add credibility to a league where those with money traditionally win…….and would mean a massive payout should there be any insiders……ditto Spurs.
    We all witnessed what the refs tried to do to Liverpool a couple seasons ago…….imagine the effect of they could do the same with a team like Leicester who just escaped relegation recently.
    And if Leicester don’t win it, hedge your bets on Spurs…….arsenal were favourites for a long time, but have had every possible obstacle put in their way.
    As for arsenal, if you are a rich book maker wanting to fix things, the refs seem to have a bias against arsenal, so do the media and some of arsenals own fans, the perfect club to stitch up fin favour of clubs of lesser ability….

  • Bogdan Dzakovic

    The most interesting thing about stats is what they conceal. While stats here are certainly meaningful, they do not include a few important things:

    1) I think its a safe assumption we are the team that dives the least (bottom 5 at worst). For this we are punished on the pitch and get ZERO credit from the media or fans.
    2) The fouls for/against do not account precisely for the *type* of foul our opponents get away with – cynical, obvious, dangerous (think Sanchez pushed into the camera pit, Debuchy pushed mid-air by Arnautovic, McNair on Wilshere, Wes Morgan on Ozil before Vardy “won” a penalty, Swansea (h) on ozil right before they scored, stonewall penalty on Sanchez v. Everton yesterday just off the top of my head. Most of these weren’t even called a faul, let alone a yellow card).

    Just a few of the top of my head from this season. For your amusement only:

    1) Liverpool (h) – Ramsey’s disallowed goal
    2) Chealsea (a) – the entire game was an absolute farce
    3) Southampton (a) – 4 goals and NOT A SINGLE ONE should have stood
    4) Everton (a) – stonewall penalty on Sanchez; Giroud disallowed goal for absolutely nothing; Giroud tripped in front their box from behind on a counter in front of Clattenburg – no foul; (this is just naming the most obvious ones)
    5) Leicester (h) – Vardy’s penalty was an absolute dive – and he shouldn’t have been in a position to dive in the first place because Wes Morgan sat on Mesut Ozil’s face just moments before that – no foul given. Three very suspicious handballs inside their area (most notably Kante with an obvious move towards the ball, and then Huth blocking Giroud’s scissor kick with his palm. I know it was close proximity, but the shot was going towards the goal.)
    6) Swansea (h) – their first goal came after a UFC grip on Mesut – again no foul. Second goal – offside
    7) Tottenham (a) – was Dier not getting sent off the most disgusting piece of inconsistent refereeing you have ever seen?

    How many points is that? I leave the maths to you. And this is just of the top of my head!

  • Zuruvi

    I’m rather disappointed that Proud Kev hasn’t responded to the various queries raised by fellow Gooners regarding this article.
    I have always liked reading ProudKev contributions and Untold articles generally.
    If ProudKev can please confirm that he has checked his facts and also provide his sources.
    The article is very well-written. I have ?”liked” it on Facebook and even shared it.
    I however think Proud Kev or Untold Arsenal should remove the article if it is quoting wrong data. I hope this is done because the credibility of Untold needs to be protected.
    I would prefer if the CORRECTIONS to the data is done and the article re-published on Untold.
    We cannot afford such a good report to be dismissed simply because the data and statistics are wrong (even if the errors are indeed genuine mistakes).

    Thanks to everyone who is fighting for justice in football. Arsenal is the biggest victim of referees. But guys, let’s make sure our facts and statistics are accurate or at least we provide the source of our data. We the Gooners on Untold cannot afford to lose credibility (just as the referees have lost creditability).

  • ozziearsenal

    Leicester with the help from the Football Gods PGMO have been given 10 Penalties ,1 red card,2 yellow card suspensions,and their overall average possession is 40.9 so far this season, Penalties 1 every 3 games Wikipedia on Leicester also the lowest epl champions possession stats is Chelsea in 2004/05 with 55.4 so Leicester with 40.9% is 15% even below then the lowest EPL Champions UNBELIEVABLE

  • austinpaul

    My Question has always bin ‘y’? Now I hve begun to kno nd undastand dat Y! Its shameful nd disappointing to d reputation of d EPL;mayb d FA will care Sumday soon!

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Mandy Dodd March 21, 2016 at 12:07 am – ” As for arsenal, if you are a rich book maker wanting to fix things, the refs seem to have a bias against arsenal, so do the media and some of arsenals own fans, the perfect club to stitch up in favour of clubs of lesser ability….

    Damn , if that’s true they are already saving a bundle by not even having to dirty their hands in the pie ! It’s a WIN ! Win ! Win ! Situation for them !

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Here are some more statistics –

    The year is 1915 “One hundred years ago”. What a difference a century makes!

    Here are some statistics for the Year 1915:

    The average life expectancy for men was 47 years.

    Fuel for cars was sold in chemists only.

    Only 14 percent of the homes had a bath.

    Only 8 percent of the homes had a telephone.

    The maximum speed limit in most cities was 10 mph.

    The tallest structure in the world was the Eiffel Tower.

    The average British wage in 1915 was £15 per year!

    A competent accountant could expect to earn £800 per year.

    A dentist £900 per year.

    A vet between £600 and £900 per year.

    And, a mechanical engineer about £2000 per year.

    More than 95 percent of all births took place at home

    Ninety percent of all Doctors had no university education!

    Instead, they attended so-called medical schools, many of which were condemned in the press AND the government as “substandard.”

    Sugar cost two pence a pound.

    Eggs were 10 pence a dozen.

    Coffee was five pence a pound.

    Most women only washed their hair once a month, and, used Borax or egg yolks for shampoo.

    Canada passed a law that prohibited poor people from entering into their country for any reason.

    The Five leading causes of death were:

    1. Pneumonia and influenza
    2. Tuberculosis
    3. Diarrhoea
    4. Heart disease
    5. Stroke

    The American flag had 45 stars.

    The population of Las Vegas, Nevada was only 30.

    Crossword puzzles, canned beer, and iced tea hadn’t been invented yet.

    There was neither a Mother’s Day nor a Father’s Day.

    Two out of every 10 adults couldn’t read or write and, only 6 percent of all British pupils went to University.

    Marijuana, heroin, and morphine were all available over the counter at local corner chemists.
    Back then chemists said, “Heroin clears the complexion, gives buoyancy to the mind, regulates the stomach, bowels, and is, in fact, a perfect guardian of health!” (Shocking?)

    Eighteen percent of households had at least one full-time servant or domestic help…

    There were about 230 reported murders in the ENTIRE U.S.A.! In 2014 this figure had risen to 14,249.

    In the UK the murder rate in 1915 was 1420. In 2015 it was 537. (Perhaps we are doing something right!)

    I am now going to forward this to someone else without typing it myself..

    From there, it will be sent to others all over the WORLD all in a matter of seconds!

    Can you imagine what it may be like in another 100 years.

  • Jambug

    Can I add one more statistic about 1915:

    1915 is closer to Spurs last League title than 2015 🙂

  • Brickfields Gunners

    @ Jambug – Well spotted ! While Arsenal are about to complete a century in the first division , I believe both clubs were in the old second division in 1915.
    And the Spuds have had more managers than trophies in that time ! It’ll sound worse if you were to leave out those League Cup wins !

  • Rantetta

    Excellent, ProudKev.

  • Brickfields Gunners

    Some mid-life statistics and info…..

    The good news about mid-life is that the glass is still half-full – of course, the bad news is that it won’t be long before your teeth are floating in it…

    Mid-life is when you start to repeat yourself, and your chins follow suit.

    Mid-life brings the wisdom that life throws you curves… and that you’re now sitting on your biggest ones.

    Mid-life is when you start to repeat yourself, and your chins follow suit.

    Mid-life is when you want to grab every firm young lovely in a tube top and scream: “Listen, honey, even the Roman Empire fell, and those things will too!”

    Mid-life is when you start to repeat yourself, and your chins follow suit.

    You become more reflective in mid-life. You start pondering the “big” questions – What is life? Why am I here? How much Healthy Choice ice cream can I eat before it’s no longer a healthy choice?

    Mid-life is when you start to repeat yourself, and your chins follow suit.

    OH !

  • Al

    Zuruvi? Any connection to H-town by any chance? 🙂

  • Pat

    Maybe Proudkev has a life apart from Untold! He is entitled.

  • Zuruvi

    Al. yes, I’m an H-town boy.

    Pat, this is no criticism of Proud Kev. He is indeed one of our best and most prolific contributors on Untold. All I am requesting is that he spares a moment to confirm his stats. And if there are mistakes then he should correct the mistakes because I think such a good analysis shouldn’t be discredited on factual inaccuracies. Maybe Proud Kev is busy updating the stats so let’s give him time.
    I was just hoping for him to have at least told us that he stands by his stats (which fellow Gooners are disputing) or that he made a genuine mistake which he is correcting.
    All I want is to protect the integrity of Untold.
    Everyone makes mistakes.

    If fellow-Gooners are finding holes in Proud Kevs argument, imagine what people who hate the Gunners (such as the FA, PGMOL and the media would say. They will accuse us of being sore losers who make-up statistics so as to convince ourselves that the world is against us.

    I still plead with the administrator of this Forum to pull down this article from the website until Proud Kev or even Untold have had another look at the facts. The article is very well written but we need it to be factually correct.
    After the statistics have been corrected or confirmed, the article can once again be re-posted..

    I always enjoy reading Proud Kev’s contributions so please don’t think I am attacking him. I think he is a good Gunner who loves the Arsenal (just like me).

  • Lalit

    @Proud Kev

    Just to be completely sure, cane we see what other leagues stats look on the same parameters.

  • serge

    If Proudkev obtained his stats from some data site (like Squawka) then he must have been aware on reading them that they would not support an article of this nature. The fact that he then got them round the wrong way on publication suggests that he made a second mistake. I’m sure he’ll sort it all out with an explanation.

  • Gooneress No1

    Excellent Proud Kev you’ve confirmed with this article what I’ve been watching all season.

  • upp

    I believe when extensive data from someone else’s work is used, the source must be cited, preferably a link to the source should be given. This will help not only to verify the accuracy of the data, but also the reputation of the source

  • Col

    Imagine if someone like Adrian Durham came and looked at this thread? The ‘reversed stats to justify a persecution complex’ story would be all over talksport and this website – and more critically, Arsenal – would be a laughing stock.

  • serge


    More likely that UA would be the laughing stock.
    Proud Kev has been conspicuously absent since publishing this article which makes me doubt the “honest mistake” model.

  • Jambug


    You doubt it was on ‘honest mistake’.


    A site choke full of the statistically obsessed, that is pawed over by our detractors at every turn and you truly believe a respected poster such as proudkev would do that?

    Get real my friend.

    proudkev has his reasons for not posting.

    Another life being just one possibility.

    My guess he feels a bit embarrassed. But he shouldn’t, he made a mistake.

    I tell you it is easy to do. I have spent hours putting statistics together and it does the brain in.

    I have posted stuff containing genuine errors and believe me I was gutted. Luckily it was just a post and not an article and also easily corrected without to much fuss, but I was still gutted and not a little embarrassed, but it happens.

    Personally I hope to hear from proudkev in the not to distant future.

    He is a brilliant poster and to cast aspersions such as you have are not worthy of you serge.

  • serge

    You’re too forgiving Jambug.
    If I said what I really thought I’d be barred from this blog, so I’d best leave it alone now and let it get forgotten.

  • Crovax


    I don’t doubt that your analysis turns out correct, or that we are constantly screwed by the refs, however you make some unsubstantiated statements:

    “… you would expect the team with the highest possession stats to receive the most tackles. … Likewise, teams with the lowest possession and pass completion stats see less of the ball and therefore may need to make more tackles.”

    It would make your analysis much more credible if you included the tackling numbers, both made and received. Then, for example you could say, Arsenal were called for a foul 354 fouls out of 700 tackles (50%), whereas Leicester made 1500 tackles, but were only called 316 times (20%). Obviously, these figures are exaggerated and false 🙂

  • Jambug


    Don’t be shy, say what you think.

    You’ve already said you think he actually deliberately made the statistics up, when it’s obvious he just got certain statistics the wrong way round. Surely if he was deliberately trying to deceive he would of been a bit cleverer than that don’t you think?

    Plus if he was going to do that, why not change ALL the stats and why not do it before?

    So come on, because silence, as you are so keen to suggest with proudkev, is just proof of guilt. Using your definition of proof I can only assume you cant explain it.

    Plus I love the way we get bashed on here with ‘stats can say anything’ to discredit there relevance, yet the second an error with them is made they suddenly become incredibly relevant.

    I’d love to know what you really think because there’s nothing worse than a poster coming here incognito, pretending to be one thing when in fact he’s really something completely different.

  • serge


    I didn’t say the stats were “deliberately made up”.
    They obviously originated somewhere and PK either acquired them in an accurate form from:
    A) a website like Squawka
    B) they were given to him in the altered state by some mischief maker.
    So, A) If he first read the authentic stats (Squawka) then he would have seen that they did not support his article with it’s sensationalist headline. So why did he spin them?
    Or B) If they were forwarded from a mischief maker in the form that he published in his article then it is a forgivable honest mistake.
    Or C) Proud Kev is an older person (like me) and had a senior moment.

  • serge


    As the OP he must have been keeping an eye on the threads, so why the silence?
    As you say he may be embarrassed, but untrusting types like me will always make a big issue out of it.