Tottenham v Arsenal, the injuries, the teams

By Bulldog Drummond

In case you have not seen it there is a wonderful comment following Andrew’s review of the referee, in which the reader goes on quite a little rant complaining that the piece was a waste of time, and that for our analysis to make any sense it should have contained a review of the activities of all the PL referees.

I suppose the lesson is, don’t write wild rants against a website until you have checked out what else is on the web site – but I am rather glad the guy did since it gave all of us at Untold quite a chuckle.  Tony replied and pointed out the 160 games as one piece he ought to read.

Anyway, to the injuries…

Tottenham are shown as being bottom of the table with none, and we have two – Santi, of course (and my constant objection to him being in the list has to go now, since he is back in the 25) and Cech, who they have down as having a late fitness test.

Other publications however have Monreal being doubtful because of an illness, and Welbeck out with a groin strain.  I don’t think the Welbeck issue would matter apart from who is on the beach, but Monreal is a worry, as he has been in such fine form most of the time.

As for the oddities of the statistics, here are a couple of selected pieces…

  • Tottenham have dropped an amazing 37 points from winning positions in Premier League games against Arsenal – the worst record of any club against a single opponent.  Quite an achievement.
  • Tottenham have let in nine of their 24 league goals this season after the 75th minute of matches.
  • We are unbeaten in the last nine matches at Wembley Stadium, winning them all including two penalty shootouts – details in the previous article.
  • Aubameyang has scored four goals in four appearances against Tottenham: one in the Champions League and three goals in the Europa League.
  • Henrikh Mkhitaryan has set up three Premier League goals in 120 minutes of action for Arsenal, as many as Alexis Sanchez managed in 1507 minutes for us this season.

And so to the teams, and the questions remain:

a) Do we play a back three or a back four?

b) What do we do to accommodate Ramsey and Jack at the same time?

I suspect it will be a back four in order to make sense of the rest of the team, using the approach that was quite jolly in the last game.  And I suspect it might be Jack in the team and Ramsey on the beach but I am really not at all sure.

I really do want to see both players together, but doing that is going to take some accommodation and shuffling of approach and I am not sure if Mr Wenger will thing this is the place to do it.

The atmosphere will be intimidating, not least because Tottenham have chosen to give Arsenal the absolute minimum number of spaces that they have to under the rules of the League.

So those opening thoughts leave me with two possibilities.  The first is


Mkhityran Ozil Aubameyang

Wilshere Xhaka

Monreal Mustafi Koscielny Bellerin


And the second with both Jack and Ramsey in the side is


MKhitayran Ozil Ramsey

Wilshere Xhaka

Monreal Mustafi Koscielny Bellerin


The argument for the second approach is that this is giving Lacazette time to recover from his non-scoring period and then come back to the fore in the changed formation above for the remainder of the season.  Obviously I have no idea how he has looked in training, so it is impossible really to judge.

Either way the team looks quite strong to me.

However the referee is Anthony Taylor so really anything can happen especially if it is nasty.

As to the beach, that would leave us with

Ospina, Macey, Chambers, Holding, Maitland-Niles, Kolasinac, Mertesacker, Elneny, Iwobi, Nelson, either Lacazette or Ramsey (depending on which formation is used, and maybe Welbeck if not injured and again depending on the formation and the approach being taken to Lacazette.   Trying to get that down to seven I would go with:

Lacazette or Ramsey, depending on the formation, plus

Ospina, Chambers, Holding, Maitland-Niles, Kolasinac, Elneny, Iwobi.

And finally because this is Tottenham we are talking about, again here is the full index to the research into what really happened with the election of Arsenal in 1919, simply because some people keep bringing it up…

Arsenal and Tottenham and the election to the first division in 1919.

The preliminaries

The voting and the comments before and after the election

Recent Posts on Untold

87 Replies to “Tottenham v Arsenal, the injuries, the teams”

  1. There is only one option of WIN out of the three options on the table for Arsenal to take in today’s afternoon North London Derby Premier League match encounter at Wembley between Tottenham Hotspur and Arsenal. And Arsenal MUST take this WIN option in this match unfailingly. A share of the spoils in this match is not an option on the table for Arsenal to take. Neither the bitter losing option should be contemplated by Arsenal as option force on them to swallow in this match. But a rout of Spurs in the game is the only option acceptable for Arsenal to take in this match. Any other option beside this WIN over Tottenham Hotspur option will be an unacceptable option for Arsenal to take in this match.

    Therefore, Arsenal MUST take this only WIN the match option that’s is on the table for them to take over Tottenhsm Hotspurs this afternoon at Wembley.

  2. It appears to be

    Cech, Bellerin, Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal, Elneny, Xhaka, Ozil, Wilshere, Mkhitaryan, Aubameyang.

    Subs: Lacazette, Ospina, Iwobi, Chambers, Welbeck, Maitland-Niles, Kolasinac.

  3. Made the mistake of listening to the pre match punditry, urgh! Switched channels now, back at kick off.

  4. AL

    We did the same.

    Jenus questions how we’ve allowed spurs to catch up.

    What are we supposed to do? Stop them building a stadium?

    Build ourselves another one?

    Power shift on the basis of one finish above us.

    Yet its us that won the FA Cup last year. It’s us that have won 3 FA Cups in 4 years.

    It’s Spurs that have not won a trophy for how long.

  5. First half statistics.

    Stats – Arsenal away
    Shots on target 3:0
    _off target _ _ 2:1
    Corners _ _ _ _ 4:1
    Offsides _ _ _ _0:1
    Fouls _ _ _ _ _ 6:3
    goal kicks _ _ _1:5

    Cumulative %Possession
    _5 37
    10 34
    15 50
    20 47
    25 43
    30 43
    35 42
    40 42
    45 43
    45+1 43


    Thanks AL, always nice to know the officials are still being cheats. LiveScore made that play sound like every other piece of dribble they’ve written so far.


  6. According to the dribble at LiveScore, the spuds committed a reckless challenge at 7 minutes (Trippier on Mkhitaryan) and a dangerous challenge at 42 minutes (Allie on Mustafi). And yet, no cards.

    The Daily Mail at 43 minutes, is hinging that there hasn’t even been any robust challenges in the game. Daily Mail suggests (but too chicken to spell it out) that PEA probably was onside. They (DM) mentions nothing about 7 minute incident.


  7. Iwobi hasn’t found the pace of the match, yet. Has been dispossessed at least 3 or 4 times.

  8. That linesman must have laser eyesight. He has been calling really tight offsides on us.

  9. Interesting. As soon as the ball went out Wanyama was ready to come in. Pocchetino was saying, “Wait, wait” to the fourth official. 30 seconds later as they were ready for the corner kick, suddenly he calls for a substitution. Obvious time wasting.

  10. After last weeks offside goal from aubemayang the PGMO made sure today that even level was offside when Arsenal was attacking… We should have been 0-1 up after the first half

  11. GoingGoingGooner
    Noticed the nearside linesman too, he has really called everything against us, even when we should have had the benefit of doubt. On the contrary his opposite counterpart letting spurs off with everything.

  12. Final stats

    Stats – Arsenal away
    Shots on target 3:0 _8:1
    _off target _ _ 2:1 _8:3
    Corners _ _ _ _ 4:1 10:2
    Offsides _ _ _ _0:1 _1:6
    Fouls _ _ _ _ _ 6:3 13:9
    Yellow _ _ _ _ _0:0 _2:1
    goal kicks _ _ _1:5 _5:13

    Cumulative %Possession
    _5 37
    10 34
    15 50
    20 47
    25 43
    30 43
    35 42
    40 42
    45 43
    45+1 43
    50 42
    55 40
    60 43
    65 43
    70 43
    75 43
    80 45
    85 47
    90+6 43

  13. A player should be suspended scores by using our defender shoulders (foul)….and 3 damn offsides given against us which are not offsides…WTF…even if we were bad, the ref should not have a damn influence on the scoreline…this is just sick

  14. @Yassine

    First half, we were very well organized, and could (should…) have been ahead if Aubamayang is not wrongly called offside. Then Kane scores a goal that should never have counted, and suddenly all hell broke loose with the team…

    Maybe (just maybe) there is a link, and maybe (just maybe) the day the corrupted mafia of Mike Riley is pushed out of football, Arsenal will be able to play regularly at the level they should play at

  15. We have a relegation level defense! How many years has this been the case, Wenger has given substantial funds, yet our whole setup on match days (away) is so poor. This year looks like a new unwanted record, most losses!

  16. We gave the Spuds too much respect playing Elneny instead of Welbeck or Iwobi.
    This caused Ozil to play on the wing where he cannot defend, lack of creativity in the centre of midfield, Auba to be too isolated.
    Elneny, Wilshere and Xhaka doing the work of two.
    Miki and Ozil couldn’t help Bellerin and Monreal and the full backs had to stop the forward runs. And we were shit.

  17. The only good thing is, no one will be rushing in Wenger’s signature, any talk of an extension will be toxic!

  18. Vince,
    If only our fans, start acting like all other fans, and not accept those corrupt stuff. I know we played bad, and I know wr are not at our best, but when its spurs and when in front of other teams fans…no way someone would defend the ref and attack his own players. Maybe in a place where its all Arsenal people, I can go for ages on how wrong we played, and we did. But i just want for once our fans to do something, and Gazidis to do something with PGMOB. And maybe some fact followijg journalist would do his work.

  19. Interesting: robbed.

    Aubameyang scores we win, the offside was impossible to call, there was absolutely no way you call him off, if you incorrectly didn’t give an offsides and he was marginally, I understand. Advantage attacker.

    I didn’t realise it was Anthony Taylor, I’d have actually called a draw or loss. He is perfect for them, he doesn’t call fouls, knowingly full well that, that isn’t how Spurs play, accumulatively, over 90mins that fouling takes its toll, you lose more than you would through simple fatigue.

    On the goal, Dixon says he got up early, yes. He didn’t leaver, no, not really. But it’s near impossible to get up or continue your upwards momentum if you are held down even slightly.

    This is a foul, even more so given the magnitude of the game.

    Aaron out was a big miss and Xhaka was ineffectual, Mo admirable, but with the defecit of pace left and physicality right, it was a big ask.

    I question the selection, I’d have liked to use Monreal at CB and Sead at Left back. We needed footballers to combat the physicality of the opposition.

    Mustarfi again had a bad game, Lacazette and Iwobi coming on, weakened the team. But I can see not wanting to risk career ending injury for Nketiah or Nelson. With Zelalem and Jeff already out.

    It hurts a little, but knowing the initial offside cost us the game stings most, but is offset by the fact that this is how they hurt us.

    An enemy in an owner. Enemies amongst the support, from previous drafts, provision gives analysis and I fear on the pitch.

    It sums up how today is, bleak!

    Spurs played a game which represents the youth of their demographic, that was thuggery.

    Now easy games, before we do the last two, Mancs!

    There is nothing to reflect on, without more investment, with so many misfiring, and with this officiating, well… no we couldn’t have done better.

    This game called our teinforcements( who wants to win a war? Who hasn’t the mettle, the quality, the sheer will to take us to the next level?

    Ryad, Reus, for a start, Butland!

    I say fix FB internally and buy the two best 4’s we can find. CB, that black French boy, I really like. And I can’t see past Schindler, or Rugani, but that boy has something about him.


    Are you going to drop Cech, Xhaka, Mustarfi, Iwobi, let them play against the Swedish and go back 3!

    We don’t quality for CL, I quit football, because this is indeed farcical!

  20. On their goal. I have seen the replay. It’s not a foul. Just good centre forward play.

  21. It wasn’t Wenger, Aaron was unavailable, forcing him to play Xhaka, meaning he had to cover him, meaning a change in shape.

    With the change, we were narrow, it played straight into their hands. Its because Alexis defected, because our owner won’t invest, did an insider trade, probably get a kick back, in then US.

    It’s why for once I’m not complaining about the selection.

    I said, we needed a winger, I wouldn’t have risked the young guns in that pit!

    He made the best call, we couldn’t do better. 1-0 it couldn’t have been more! 1-0 we would have won.

    1-0 they missed 3 we missed 2 an drew got the opener snatched away.

    In Karma I believe, no longer the people.

  22. could see the Spurs goal, just from the buildup, Kane was pretty much free. Kos just didn’t move, why does it take Wenger until the 60th min to make a sub, and why do we always concede within 15mins from half time? This is down to a lack of coaching, because it happens again and again.

  23. Sheworeyellowribbon,

    If Kosienly wasnt there, Kane would be decending when the ball reached him, he stayed that seconds holding Kosienly cause he jumped early for the ball. And it was a foul, he gained advantage.

  24. If the early offside against Aubamayang hadn’t stood who knows?Plus their goal should’t have stood for the foul,Kane fouls all the game.Should have been 1-0 Arsenal..

  25. I say, we need a psychiatric. Its all in our mind. Our players have blocks in their mind and I dont know why…maybe the media maybe the fans, I dont know…

  26. Walter..
    Can you please clarify for us if what Kane did was a foul in their goal?


    Now I saw it was his words, I still believe it was a foul.

  27. Fair enough .
    I don’t understand why Mo got hooked tho. He was our best midfielder…..tho Jack stepped up feet Mo went off. Xhaka just doesn’t dominate that space.
    I know we changed approach ,but we turned to shit after he went off.

  28. Couldn’t see the whole game because of my stupid banker very late for an appointment! Just the last 15 mn.
    So, I can’t say nothing about referee. It seems to me that there is no reasons to be ashamed for loosing 1-0 away to a rather good team like Spurs. It’s sad and too bad, but certainly no reason to crucify Wenger again and again.
    But is this really useful answering to Jet’s kind of negative comments already heard elsewhere millions of times?
    Surely we can go ahead next games with hope with this team !

  29. AFC didn’t cover itself in glory today but that is not to excuse the non-offside calls by the assistant referees. The PigMob struck again – one of our players got the ball off Son but the man in the middle chose to award a free kick! For how long will the betting syndicates and their collaborators continue to get away with this blatant daylight robberies?

    When the more obvious non-offside was called not ONE pundit said a word for or against. They went on with their commentary as if nothing unusual had happened. Well blow me, these officials and pundits even lack a fear of God or any form of retribution for remaining quiet even when Justice is being mauled and dragged in the mud. Life goes on, for I know even this form of chicanery will come to an end and exposed to the whole world, if not sooner most definitely later.

  30. I don’t think Kane’s upward movement was a foul but he did make contact with Koscielny coming down which prevented Koscielny challenging him. Foul? Not sure. At the other end, it sure seemed that the assistant referee was whistling us for every possible offside. I am not sure how the AI on television decides when to stop and show whether something is offside or not but there were some pretty close decisions that went against us.

    As for our play, we set up knowing they were going to press us and so we decided to give them that and play on the counter. We were fine in the first half but too narrow. Our counters were easy to defend because we came right up the middle. In the second half, our energy levels dropped and they were able to get in some dangerous crosses one of which resulted in the goal. For the next ten minutes we were wobbling but then things opened up and we started getting chances. As for our subs, Lacazette was not a factor and Iwobi was a disappointment. He tried to go forward but kept losing the ball. Jack slid him an excellent ball and he just missed it. We missed Ramsey’s runs into the box.

    In sum, we lost the game but we were NOT an embarrassment as some posters would say. Spurs definitely had the lion’s share of possession but before their goal actually created very little. Give them credit, but give ourselves credit, too. We play on.

  31. Bobome, Going…..

    Yassine, it seems you all saw what I saw. Accurately, I don’t believe that statements can be considered evidence, although they are. But I agree with everything you’ve said.

    We realy missed Ramsey. he would have been perfect out wide right, cutting in, on the cover. it allows Bellerin the time and space to get forward, and keeps Son from all those effective forages forward.

    If you intentionally mismanage a business, there are consequences, Phil Green, Carillion, knowingly allowing this to occur, Lloyds shifting debt, to the publicly owned, RBS, that is criminal.

    I have some serious concerns about Lacazette and Xhaka of late. I didn’t want either, and neither has been particularly fruitful. Although flashes of something. I think he was resigned to the loss and removed the best performers, who if injured, we are out of it.

    Elneny, Mikhi, they were are best two, Jack was playing a different game then he needs to and he fought, he fought so he did. As did Hector, Aubameyang, needs to study some more of those Henry clips, this is when her drifts in between the left wing and Ozil to overload. But he was decent.

    Spurs congested the midfield, and this is what football in the premier league has become, anti football. The fouls, the rotational fouling, the gamesmanship, the conspicuous officiating. Spurs fouled, and were permitted to, they wasted time, and were permitted to. they were allowed to take quick free kicks, when we did try, the whistle was piped.

    Koscielny is fouled, but Wenger’s words do not on this occasion reflect his beliefs, and in facvt his knowledge, based in fact. Actions speak louder than words, he motioned the foul on the touchline on Kanes goal. he just knows another sanction isn’t necessary (trust me I know the feeling) I took one because I had to, not necessary again.

    Impact. this was touched on wuite rightly in the article a few days prior. What is the impact of all this.

    How many medals you got Lance? Hey Froome, what’s in the bag, why you got Asthma drugs in you twice the dosages, who, team what????

    Anyone who says it wasn’t a foul, sheworewhatluv? who especially doesn’t touch on the disgraceful call in regards to the offside, derides the players and says nothing about the manner of the opposition play, officiating is seriously spurious don’t you think Mr TopGun.


    not being what it purports to be; false or fake:

    Anyone seen Lisa?

    I’m telling you, I am the strongest willed person I lnow, cracks are starting to show. I work alone generally, because no one else can withstand the geat as I can, those who tried, or proported to try, are no longer with us, and costing me right this second.

    However the end game was, to win and let the losses be testament to the impact.

    Real should play with Poch, but keep Zizu, that guy can’t manage a team, that’s a mob. they will get lynched in Champions League. let them go another round first though, let them all go at least another round.

    That game was an almost must win. Glad Wenger see’s what I see, overstate, the understated. Time to get all Ironside, Columbo, you always see the killer at the start in MSR!

    We know who you are, now we just need to prove it!

  32. sheworewhatluv?

    Not an Arsenal fan then or at least not one that knows anything about the club

  33. Are you a fool or merely a acting foolishly?

    Devises from the great western, I have seen, which was coined primarily by Arsenal fans, most significantly the 70’s!

    I got the history of Arsenal given to me by my Stepdad as a kid!

    Interesting choice, it’s oxymoronic given your statements.

    What’s the plots of the film, how does it end for our fair retiring Cap’n! And the dating and surely loyal guy at his side gets the girl does he not!

    By routing the enemy? It’s how I always won playing total war, flank, Calvary unit, soak up the pressure with the legendary legion oj testudo formation, charge, rout£ assassinate generals. Siege!

    I think you’re armchait is calling, I could do PMQ in my sleep let alone this.

    That was the Columbo, walked into that 1 more time.

    I know what she wore, but when wenger made a recent statement about Trophy droughts, he ‘forgot’ to say who!

    You just made me smile for the the first time since the result, thanks.

    What did she wear ??
    She wore, she wore,
    She wore a yellow ribbon,
    She wore a yellow ribbon,
    In the merry month of May!
    And when, I asked,
    Oh why she wore her ribbon,
    She said it’s for The Arsenal,
    And we’re going to Wembley!
    We’re the famous Arsenal,
    And we’re going to Wembley.

    Out oast defines our present which is the basis of our future. Our future starts in 1996. Is seeded in 2018 and will live until the sun burns us up!

    This incarnation, I don’t lack much important knowledge of, of o could scout, that would be a job I’d happily second for more inside info!

    The spurious part wasn’t for you! I just thought, what a stubborn, ignorant, now old, coot! The kind of person who prefers to complain about his offsprings and grandchildren and wife, rather be than give them credit and love!

    There is an in, she has a lot of affection for me, constantly on a train me, so I give her cause for minor complaint.

    101: welcome to school!

  34. Like I said, for the tradition keep the linesman, use technology, let them assist with monitoring the spirit of the game and safety of players and signal when there is an offside!

    Both a goal chalked off incorrectly and then a goal which is seriously dubious.

    I said it about Liverpool, I say it about Kane. I liked him, but he now thinks he can do as he pleases, he tried to elbow Jack, Koscielny had to take small action as retribution.

    He’s lucky,, because footballing intelligence, I got plenty, i’d have cleaned him with a 200% legal challenge (G Neville style) and left him sidelined till 4 weeks from the season end, with time to think and he fit for WC.

    Can’t wait for Bellerin to be older, this wasn’t a game for Sead!

    Evidence; that was the largest attendance at a Spurs game, largest attendance for a north London derby, and on top of tent, mathday security, stewarding, revenue, what else do .Gov get a slice of? Wanna visit Wembley, go see a what Match!? Next questionable Russian investment in Chelsea and Fulham, after Cpuncil intervention, plus that same deal again!

    I study our opponents also!

  35. This Spurs game lose is over. It has not worked according to plan. So, Let’s but it quickly behind us. But now focus on our away Ostersund ELC match on Thursday night and start planning earnestly for the match from now. So that we won’t be caught napping in thls match as we were caught napping by Harry Kane towering headed goal at Wembley for Spurs this afternoon to which the Gunners had no answer to it. We don’t want to see a repeat of such at Sweden against Oustersun as Le Boss seemingly looks to rest his first team starters for the match in readiness to face Man City in proper shape in the Carabao Cup final match at Wembley on 25th of this month. But play his Arsenal II team for the 2 legged knockout ELC match at Sweden and at the Ems against Oustersund.

  36. We allowed there fullbacks too much space in our half and eventually they would produced a decent cross which they did , if you close the space you should stop the cross IMO first job of a fullback

  37. A bit below par with a coupla new players bedding in and missing last weeks hat trick hero at the last minute.still almost nicked a point at the end. we’ve come back from a lot worse than this on a number of occasions. the best footballing move was definitelly the one that ended with Jack’s shot from the edge of the box forcing a good save from lloris. the goal was a bit of a gift as nobody bothered to close down the cross, actually thought hector did well against son though. they got away with tons of horrible little fouls as always, but their managers openly endorsed their cheating ways, and if the fa say thats fine and are happy for them to continue cheapening the national stadium, what can you do! we’ll be playing there on merit again in a couple of weeks, much better for the soul. Up the Gunners!

  38. Well, to clear the doubt(er)s, here’s the result of an analysis I was able to make using a frame-by-frame analyzer:
    @11:31 : Wilshere passes the ball towards Aubameyang, whose shoulder is offside, but Vertonghen’s butt keeps his rest of the body onside. The linesman is half a foot ahead of the play, and sees more of Auba’s body offside than it actually is. Mkhytarian is in a passive offside position, as he doesn’t interfere with the play, trotting back towards the center line. No offside, wrong decision by the linesman. Photos here and here.
    @48:45 : Kane jumps, but his arm is directed towards Kos, to prevent him from reaching the ball. When Kos finally jumps, Kane uses him as leverage to keep himself in the air for that extra fraction of a second necessary to head the ball with full accuracy. Photos here, here, here, here and here.

  39. Oh, and, just in case it was necessary to mention explicitly, Kane on Kos is indeed a foul, as Kos is impeded in his attempt to play the ball.

  40. Another observation is that the difference in height between Kos and Kane is 2cm (Kos is 1,86m, Kane is 1,88m). That difference in jump should have been a red flag to start with.

  41. Once more we were robbed by Taylor & the clear climb on Kos to get the header in by Kane. It is not just a slope that is the challenge, it is the blatant biased officiating.

  42. How can any say that we played bad, at least not in the 1st half. We match them and kept our heads high.
    It was only in the 2nd half, right after the goal from them, that we disintegrated a little(this has to stop if we are to progress), we lost our shape, stopped closing down, and on top of that became even more afraid in one on one tackles.

    Has anyone noticed that Arsenal rarely wins the ball in one on ones(Except Jack, who at once shields the ball with his body), everyone else seems to pull out or hesitate just enough for the opposition to get there first, or for them to rob us of the ball. Afraid of injuries? Or just afraid? I do not know.
    That also has to stop.

    Still, i maintain that Arsenal were “scripted” to lose today, make of that what you will.

  43. Florian

    I knew it, but they will say his shoulders were offside. Apparently it is any part of the player’s body that can make him offside.

    Kane should have been carded and the goal struck off indeed.

  44. Nice on what Florian, good man, offside is any part younger can play with, the shoulder is debatable grey area. As he wasn’t in a goal scoring position I would maintain the decision is incorrect.

    So either
    1. the official lacks the physical abilities required to do his job, the failure to meet the job description lies with his employers, their members and partners, this they aren’t liable for damages.

    2. The referee doesn’t know how the rules are applied and thus the afore mentioned Ian still relevant.

    3. The two prior suggestions are illogical and on the balance of probability no likely, which leaves the most likely, the official intentionally made the incorrect decision gully awareness of the ramifications, impact and consciously didn’t so, so as to harm the team the decision wasn’t made against.

    Your shoulder is considered part of your arm and an extension of your hand. Advice to Referees tells us that using the front of the shoulder to direct the ball is still considered handling even if most of the contact is with the chest so I doubt it’s possible to direct the ball with any part of the shoulder in a legal manner. However, if the ball bounces off your shoulder, or your arm or hand for that matter, and you do not redirect it and it goes in the goal, that should be considered legal as the ball played the hand not the other way around..Thanks for the question

  45. Introduction
    Direct and indirect free kicks and penalty kicks can only be awarded for offences committed when the ball is in play.
    Direct free kick
    A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
    jumps at
    kicks or attempts to kick
    strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
    tackles or challenges
    trips or attempts to trip
    If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

    Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
    Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
    Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
    A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:
    handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
    holds an opponent
    impedes an opponent with contact
    spits at an opponent

  46. “They cheat and they dive
    They cheat and they dive
    Tottenham Hotspur,
    They’ll finish top five”

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