10 responses

  1. FrankA

    Tony, you wrote
    “In fact only four teams have won the league this century, which is perhaps a lower number than many people think.”

    If my memory serves me right, there are rather 5 teams instead of the 4 you mentioned.
    Man Utd
    Man City
    Leicester City

    I’d say I’m surprised Arsenal are among the top 3 in points tally in the last 5 years given that we’ve been outside the top 4 in the last 3 years.

    • Tony Attwood

      Yes I forgot Leicester. My mistake.

  2. Peter

    It’s hard to criticize some premises if your own data is not correct. League point calculation for last 5 years:

    Man City 421
    Chelsea 372
    Liverpool 370
    Tottenham 368
    Arsenal 354
    Ma U 352

  3. Toby

    Please don’t forget Blackburn Rovers.

  4. Nitram

    “It is an interesting calculation given that the whole premise of the Anti-Arsenal Arsenal movement is that we are going backwards!”

    The entire premise of our ‘decline’ is based on the fact that for 10 years we were top 2, then for 10 years top 4, now for 3 years out of the top 4.

    So yes, taken literally and without taking account of external circumstances and/or using context, you can certainly say we have declined.

    But to not use context, or to take into account the massive changes in the football landscape would be, and is, utterly misleading.

    Firstly Wenger achieved our top 2 status on the back of:

    -His vision of how football should be played.

    -Of how players should train and behave.

    -By using his knowledge of a largely untapped pool of talent across Europe.

    All this took Arsenal ahead of all but Manchester United who not only had one of the best managers in the World but also had a Global Marketing operation beyond anybody else in the World, giving Ferguson almost unlimited funds. If not unlimited they were vastly superior to ours and gave Sir Alex first pick of almost any player he wanted.

    Secondly our decline from top 2 to top 4 was on the back of 2 massive changes.

    1 – Our financial commitment to building the Emirates Stadium.

    2 – The arrival of RA, or rather his Billions at Chelsea, followed by an even bigger windfall at Manchester City.

    This not only ham strung us with regards to available funds for transfers, it also put us down to 3rd then 4th in the pecking order of players preferred destination in the PL, and as well as that it made it difficult for us to keep the great players we did have.

    If people choose to believe we actually had £30 to £50 Million (Nett) to spend a year on players, a la Manchester United, Chelsea and City then you must believe in money trees because it is simply an unsustainable claim.

    We then loosened the purse strings a bit and immediately won 3 FA Cups in 4 years, a similar trophy haul to what Spurs have achieved in 35 years. We also managed a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th placed finish. Hardly a decline.

    So as far as I can see the only real term ‘decline’ has been since 2016/17 and even then we only missed the top 4 by a single point and of course we did win the FA Cup, so hardly a dramatic ‘decline’ really was it?

    And then we had the one season, 2017/18, that can really be called a ‘decline’ where we finished 6th and didn’t win a trophy.

    And even that seasons downfall can be put down to one thing, our away form. Why that should so suddenly of taken such a massive decline is a quandary that even Wenger was struggling to address. Maybe given time he would of done, maybe not, we shall never know.

    Either way, in my opinion it was hardly a reason to hound the man that gave us all that success out of a job, but there you go, it is what it is and here we are.

    Now anyone who reads my ramblings should no 2 things.

    1) I admired and supported Wenger to the end.

    Despite what others have said, I have never called him perfect, or a God.

    I have said he was a great manager, possibly our best ever, who moved our club forward in ways unimaginable to me back in the days I frequented Highbury in the 70’s and 80’s, and I believe he was critisised by the media, ex players and a section of our fans, way beyond anything he ever deserved.

    But that is just MY opinion.

    2) I am as much behind our new manager as I was our last manager. He has very large shoes to fill and it wont be easy but for me he has started with promise.

    He has his own ideas of how to play and who am I to argue.

    There are obviously some teething problems with certain aspects of what he is trying to achieve, but given the fact we have a lot of new faces, we have a few injuries and the quality of teams in the PL, last years exploits in Europe surely proving the extraordinarily high standard of the PL, he is doing okay.

    Despite Saturdays minor setback I am still very optimistic for the season ahead and I believe Emery is perfectly capable of returning us to the top 4.


  5. Rosicky@Arsenal

    Though I agree with the first part of your post but would disagree to the last part and the faith you have in Emery that he will take us forward or even he will be able to keep us at the level which Arsene Wenger kept us for 2 decades. I will ask you a few questions on coming Sunday to have your view point on my reservations about Emery.

  6. Nitram


    I have read your reservations and understand were you are comming from.

    As I said Wengers boots are big ones to fill, and it wont be easy.

    I have said a few times that if Emery even manages to match Wengers recent failings of 3 FA Cups and 3 top 4 finishes over a 4 year period, he will of done very well.

    Simply re establishing our top 4 status and a cup or 2 would be doing well in my opinion.

    But whatever he does I will back him. That’s just how I am. I honestly cant ever remember barracking a player OR manager in all my time as an Arsenal fan.

    I see Arsenal as my family. I love them unconditionally.

    That doesn’t mean I don’t think players have stinkers, or are perhaps not good enough, but whilst they pull on that shirt they will get my support.

    Similarly the manager.

    Keep the faith my friend. Try to enjoy the ride. If it doesn’t work out, well, we’ll move on to the next phase.


  7. Sue

    So Tony when pgmo give you 98% accuracy figures you ask how they got at those figures, but when euro football stats ssy arsenal has been the 2nd best English team in the last 5years, you propagate without asking… Things will never change

    • Tony Attwood

      That is a bold prediction Sue and not one that I would go along with. But the simple difference is that on the Euro stats site it is obvious how the calculation is made because all the details are on the site. But PGMO has never once given us the data on which their claim has been made. It’s not that hard to work out, surely.

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