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Why everyone is against Diaby and Arshavin

Editor’s note: Living in the Midlands I tend to set off early for Arsenal games, and don’t get back until after midnight, which means if I leave up the predictions about tonight’s game as the lead story, it is going to look fairly dumb at 10.30pm UK time where I have predicted a 6-1 victory, and we only get five.   (I may well also be back even later after the wild and frantic celebrations that will accompany the publication of my article in the match day programme).    So the story about tonight is still there (you can flip back a page or read it below) but in the the meanwhile, just before I set off with Mark and Ian on the long and tedious journey south, here’s something else to read.

Why everyone is against Diaby and Arshavin

By Walter Broeckx

The moaning brigade has, in recent weeks chosen two new victims. Diaby and Arshavin.

Useless, not interested, not good enough, should never play, off to Spain … these are the things that we can  read on many blogs.

After the game against Spurs it was told once again by some and despite the fact that our arch-rivals were easily beaten, they barely had 1 dangerous shot on goal in 90 minutes and we could have won by much more.

Because it was such a nice game and thanks to modern technology we now have at our disposal, I viewed the game again in a relaxed manner this time. Because we must not forget the way we look to a game live. Especially against the Tiny Totts it is full of tension and nervousness. And that’s usually not a good way to properly review a game. So I looked a bit closer at some “moaning victims”.

“Arshavin, not interested”. Arshavin is a special player with a special body language. When I re-watched the game against Spurs Arshavin really showed how much he was involved in the game. But the problem is that Arshavin wants to do special things and that can go wrong sometimes.

Passing a ball in to the space of a tenth of a millimetre at a certain player, with the outside of the foot. Those are things we should not even dream of but Arshavin does and he tries it. And if that fails a few times in a game then the moaning brigade steps in.

What Arshavin does sometimes is run or stand still with his shoulders hanging down in a pose of “do what you want, I do not play anymore”. It is just a way to deceive the opposition.

If you are an opponent and you see it you could think: “We have eliminated him, he’s finished”. And one could have the tendency to lose him out of sight and that is deadly.

Remember Liverpool last year?  The first half hour the game passed him by completely, he just walked with drooping shoulders over the field and nobody noticed him and suddenly he stood there and was unstoppable. Arshavin is the type of player where anything can happen and sometimes there are those days that it works and sometimes it doesn’t. For those who forget easily: Not every ball that Bergkamp played in his days turned in to gold.

Now, how can one see that Arshavin is interested? If an attacker, like him, very regularly runs in to our own defence to help or tracks back with an advancing defender then you know that he is interested. I saw him working hard against the Spurs with moments and it tells us something about his commitment.

“Diaby, not good enough”. Diaby is a player who last season was notable for his regularity. He came back from injury, played an awesome match (the tiles of the roof as we call it over here), then played two decent games and then …. He fell back with a new injury for several weeks and so it went during most of the season.

This season, so far only one minor injury and for the rest always fit. Again great games (e.g. Portsmouth) and some lesser games. In reassessing the game against the Tiny Totts, Diaby played a very unlucky first half.

Misunderstandings, the ball that was not being played at the right speed and so it seemed he was doing really badly. Gradually however, he worked harder and harder and came into the game in the second half and he was really doing well. Of course, the moaners had found enough ammunition in the lesser first half to shoot him down.

Good advice: Review the game again in relaxed conditions and you’ll see things you have not seen the first time.

A very clever man made the comparison between Song last year and Diaby this year. If we could find web pages from last year we would now simply replace the name Song by Diaby. What was said last year of Song they now say of Diaby. However it is now for the first time since joining Arsenal that it appears that Diaby finally is fit enough to play weeks in a row without injuries.

And maybe now it’s his year to develop like Song did last year together with Denilson. And then maybe next year the enormous potential that Wenger sees in him and that we get to see in some games, comes completely out in the open for everyone to see.

If we should believe the moaners on Saturday’s match against the Spurs and that we only played with 9 players and to think we still won so easy 3-0 then that’s just a sign of our power and our strength. We should be happy with the fact that we have played only “moderately” and yet so easily won against a team that “would push us out the top 4”, once again.

Walter

Tony’s PS: Please buy my book.  Details on www.emiratesstadium.info

53 comments to Why everyone is against Diaby and Arshavin

  • i guess we shld give him some chance cos he may change to good…. but, wat i hate about him is the short dangerous passes.

  • zzzOOO

    Arshavin best <3

  • song dynasty

    Groovy is the word to describe our midfield right now :))

  • TheSKAGooner

    Well said, Walter.

  • Billy

    Linking Diaby with Arshavin is still not going to make him class. Arshavin has his off-days but Diaby is a perennial shit.
    His blind supporters has tried to compare him to Song, (Song has improved by leaps and bounds)but to compare him to Arshavin is pathetic.

  • As much as I agree with what you say about Arshavin, I disagree with you regarding Diaby.

    Diaby has masses of potential, I think he can be like Song and transform to a great player next season BUT for now, he has been pretty poor this season. He has a good game to bad game ratio of about 1/8 (from what I see).

    Here’s how I see it:

    Diaby Pros:
    1.Good at dis-possessing players.
    2.Can find his way out of tight areas.
    3.Has a good shot on him, as demonstrated a few times last season.

    Diaby Cons:
    1.Very, very poor passer of the ball, can fluff up very simple passes. To expand on that I genuinely believe it’s because of over-belief. His wayward passes are almost always because he underhits them, usually because he tries to make it look like it’s no effort.
    2.Poor marker – Often goes to sleep when defending set pieces (A la AZ a couple of weeks ago), he’s very important for these because of his size, but he loses the player he is supposed to be marking too often.
    3.For his size, he is poor at winning balls in the air, and even if he does he rarely gets them on target.
    4.Slow decision maker, He often dawdles with the ball and misses a quick opportunity to release another player.

    I can understand why Wenger plays him, he is strong and he has height which we desperatly need, but he needs to look at the weak-points of his game and work on them, fast. He clearly doesn’t do this at the moment and that’s what’s frustrating about him.

    I think he is best used in the long run as a backup player to the DM role as occupied by Song at the moment. Going forward I don’t think he offers enough.

  • stuartlondon

    Walter, thanks once again for a balanced and carefully considered view of players currently targetted for criticism by some ‘fans’. As a fan of Andrey Arshavin, I always feel disappointed when he fails to score in a match. But looking at match replays shows how hard he works, making opportunities for attacking moves, and tracking back to help stifle advances by opposing teams.

    I agree that his apparent disinterest is clearly designed to deceive defenders, allowing him to find space ready to receive the ball. This can most easily be seen in free kicks, where he makes little attempt to detach himself from defenders until the last moment, then suddenly moves into a position where he can either take a pass or collect a deflected ball and make a shot on goal.

    And as Arshavin himself said at the start of the season, how often he scores depends partly on how many opportunities are made for him by his fellow players. He is very good at getting into space on the wing, but often the ball is passed to one of the more centrally placed strikers. Personally, I would like to see him play in a central position more often.

    As to the player’s body language, observe his demeanour when he finishes a match without scoring, or is taken off because he is exhausted. Of course, the moaners are not interested in a balanced understanding of the real strengths and weaknesses of players. Nor do they feel any sense of loyalty to players who might be going through a fallow period, as all players do. My view is that Arshavin is made of the right stuff and his quality will shine through like it did last season. As they say in Russia ‘Muy vereem v vas’ ‘We believe in you’ (apologies to any Russian speakers for my crap phonetics). Stu

  • steww

    100% Agree Walter. Diaby has enormous talent but when a career is interrupted as his has been by an horrific injury and then followed by an on off season … well, it takes more than a few matches to gel with team mates and play to ones potential.
    Of course doing so in front of some of the worse fans on earth takes some doing too. How groans and boos are meant to help your own player gain confidence is beyond me.
    We need to glory in the good and understand and forgive the rest. Because we are supporters. We are supposed to support. That includes any public place like a stadium, radio phone in or blog site.

  • LRV

    Walter, It is clear that Diaby is a good player. Sometimes, it takes a fair bit of time for a player with a tendency to stray too far forward from a defensive position, one who is prone to injuries, to gel, with accurate understanding, with his team mates. If he can curb his straying and over-simplification tendencies, then his worth to the team will become much more apparent. Same as Song and Denilson’s are now apparent.

    Another thing is that the moaners rolled-up their sleeves, ready to puch Denilson any-which-way until he becomes too punch-drunk to play this season. Unfortunately he gets injured, so as an alternative, they decided to select Diaby as the next fall guy. The moaners must have a fall guy no matter what. If it is not Diaby, it would have been someone else. They are never satisfied; they never will be.

  • Jonny

    Walter good man, sorry – this reply got longer than I intended. The D&G crew just make my blood boil, hence…

    I think that for a lot of the moaners, they forget that even the very best of Arsenal’s (or any other team come to that) past teams had players who frustrated. I can remember screaming to the heavens about Wiltord, Platt and Gilberto (to name but a few) and yet we won the league with these very same players.

    I could bang on about the line up who won the Cup Winners Cup but I won’t – lets stay more modern then startlingly weak line up of messrs Hillier, Selley and McGoldrick. After all that was a cup competition in the proper sense and lesser line ups can always cause surprises.

    I am not saying Wiltord, Platt and Gilberto were terrible players – far from it – but they were often singled out for criticism and vitriol. I suspect, if they played today, the noises of dissent against these players would be FAR greater and this is down to the rise of BLOGPOWER. The chattering inanity of a thousand simpletons, the voice of the pub bore and the 13 year old expert who believe they know more about management than Arsene, Shankly, Clough and Ferguson combined.

    They still wrote off Song in spite of the fact he has had a great season. They can;t see this largely because when many of us could see his potential (most notably that notoriously rubbish manager Wenger) they had already donned the caps, wigs and hoods of judge, jury and executioner and declared him useless, rubbish and shit.

    The horse they got on is too high to climb down from so the most we get is a begrudging ‘he had an okay game but he’s hardly Viera/Petit or as good as etc etc.

    And so it goes on. Here is the rub D&G mentallers – this squad, this team are good enough to win the league and somewhere dep down you know it. But you can’t admit it because then you’d have to admit you were wrong.

    If they don’t win the league, I am confident it will not be by much (as it seems the press are now wising up to) and IF that happens it will largely be YOUR fault for tryin to split this cub asunder.

    The Diabys, Arshavins, Songs, Bendtners ARE good enough for this club because football isn’t solely about megastars (thank fuck!) its about teamwork, confidence and belief.

    What will happen to you if we win the league – I am betting you will move on to complain about the years we lost building this young winning side on the cheap and moaning about the price of everything and shareholders lining their pockets at your expense.

    You want the moon on a stick and it is you who are not good enough, for the club, for the real fans, for the players, the manager (oh yes especially for the manager who you so unfairly and foully malign)but mostly for the sole of my shoe.

    Diaby, go get me a hatrick, I still fucking love ya!

  • Cujo

    In the words of Nasri, ”nothing can replace games” and i think that is what wenger realised with diaby. The only way diaby will ever realise his true potential is to have a good run of games. Something i dont understand though, is when i read blogs about other teams, they never react negatively to their players. Always supportive and optimistic. Us Arsenal fans need to stop gunning down our own players!

  • Jonny

    Oh, and for the record, Diaby frustrates me too but there are signs of improvement and it is good that the places he needs to work on are clear cut and apparent.

    The boy has undoubted talent and it may be that he never full realises it but for now we are still winning many games with him in the side. I agree he is still not quite getting it right but he hasn’t been as terrible as people claim either.

    It could yet prove invaluable for him to have had this run in the side and we are lucky to have plenty of other options available to us from the bench.

  • Jonny

    Thanks Cujo – you are much more succinct than me!

    🙂

  • I will admit, diaby frustrates, but i think he is got great potential, if only he can stop dwelling on the ball far too long then we shall see the best of him…

    Another thing guys… can somebody tell me why itv nolonger show arsenal matches?? since we started champions league this year, they have never showed arsenal on their channel…its either chelsea, liverpool or manu….!1 i need to know why..may be somebody knows the secret.

    Another things is about MATCH OF THE DAY on bbc..they put the arsenal highlights at the end of the program..why is this??

  • Still King Kolo

    Good points Walter, Jonny, Cujo… so refreshing to actually find some real fans on the web. Imagine calling Eboue and Diaby rubbish… they are such talented players it is ridiculous. Anyway all the sensible points have been made so I will make a prediction instead… next season Sagna and Clichy better watch out. And maybe Eduardo and definitely Walcott. Ah well.

  • Cujo

    Haha! Thanks johnny. Not sure if that was you being sarcastic but i’ll take it! Lol

  • Jonny

    I actually wasn’t – I just laughed out loud that you had neatly summed up my thoughts in rather fewer words!

  • reo

    I don’t agree with you about Diaby.
    He has techniques and strength, but he is not intelligent enough to play against well-organized team. The players like him, such as Kolo Toure, Eboue, Adebaydor etc… need so much intelligent teammates around them for covering their lack of vision and positioning sense.
    No wonder they can play well when they are free to play with their instint. But when it comes to the difficult games which any mistakes can damage the team playing, their weekness is exposed and they have bad games. Last season, it were hardly to see a good game if the four I mention earlier (Diaby, Eboue, Toure, Adebaydor) started together.

    I don’t want Wenger to get rid of Diaby but want him not to play Diaby in big games.

  • walter

    I wonder if the moaners will still have a pick on those two. Arshavin 3 assists and Diaby 1 goal. Good job boys.

  • steww

    Diaby is class and what I love is he never lets his head drop, never gives up. When things start to click for him people will see just how good he is.

  • walter

    Maybe they moan tomorrow about the lenght of the gras on the pitch ?

  • microdire

    These 2 players said something to the moaners today”Shut up”with their performances.

  • don't believe the hype

    Walter they will moan about the fact that we conceded a goal!

  • LRV

    Walter: You can bet, starting from Midnight today, they will start berating Almunia for the 1 goal conceded. Diaby might get blamed for going forward; Gibs for jumping over the goal-post; and everyone else for going to bed early. That is the nature of our moaners. By the way, did you see how WestHam defeated Aston Villa tonight? I bet our moaners did not remember that a lion is most deadly when it is wounded because it will attack anything and everything. Whatever the moaners say, our boys were majestic tonight.

  • sex fabregas

    Posts like this are why I love reading this blog.

    The body language of Arshavin does actually deceive me at times, then I look at C. Ronaldo’s …now that’s genuine whining and moaning.

    As for Diaby, I do want him to succeed in the club but sometimes he just frustrates me because he ends up shooting himself in the foot when he relies on his skill too much.

  • Vertino

    First of all Walter, thanks for this. Having prided myself on having a good understanding of Body Language, I failed to spot the theory on Arshavin that you have so eloquently put. I agree about Diaby also and believe with a little more confidence those passes and decision making will become a lot better.

    Jonny, I agree totally with the view that every Arsenal side had frustrating individuals. In particular Wiltord who was unfairly targeted when Wenger played him on the right wing instead of his favoured striker position. In one match against Valencia he was ridiculed for his defensive failures and people tend to forget that this guy got us about 10 goals per season, often from the wings which is easier said than done.

    The other thing as well is people tend to glorifiy the previous Arsenal sides way too much. On one blog last season I saw them comparing a team featuring Merson to the current XI (as of last season). I don’t know what your view is on that but I found it amusing if not disturbing to find people are so deluded and ungrateful. Yes we might have finished 4th, couple of places lower than we should have but when did a side featuring Merson reach the semi final of the Champions League? And I don’t mean to say that Merson was an awful player but surely a better perspective is needed.

  • kid2ta

    the game was amazing tonight, wow, I cant believe what I saw tonight they were amazing especially fabregas and arshavin diaby too the double pass plays just its better to say everything was nice if they want to get a trophy this year they have to keep up everything like this.

  • Gunnersgun

    As suggested, should try to play Diaby as a forward. If u don’t try, u won’t know. He scored again.
    It will not only make u even more STUPID but also damn coward.
    Hope DICEMAN1984 read the follow 2 articles from Arsenal.com dated 04th November 2009

    1) Diaby – I am stronger and more focused now
    2) Wenger – Diaby instincts are hard to curb
    Please use a bit of intelligence (if u have) to understand it.

    Last night the whole team played very well, a few players were electrifying
    For the last 2 games, Arshavin did not play well, he is capable of much better things. If Arshavin had played 80% of what he did last night for the games against WHU (poor)& Tottenham (not very gd), I strongly believe they will not moan & groan.
    now that Song is playing well, is there any supporters who groan & moan about him ?????? In fact all support him & sees him as a vital part of the team.
    Based on last night performance, not fair to moan & groan about Diaby & Arshavin.
    Only True & Honest Supporters Moan & Groan when the specified players who not doing well just as AW (whinger) moan & groan when injustice is inflicted on the team.
    We moan & groan b’cuz we want the players to improve!!!!!!!!!
    There is NO DOUBT in the quality of this SQUAD but sometimes the attitude of some players

  • max

    Whichever way you look at it,to me Diaby is painful to watch most of the time.Okay he has size but gallas,song.vermallin out-jump him all season.His defence is non-existent and he dallies on the ball long enough to get stripped.I remember one game against chelsea last season he lost 7 possesions in a row and wenger kept this joker in there till the 80+ minute before bringing in ashavin.He is a bonafide bench,carling cup player until he grows up whenever.

  • Cape Gooner

    Well said Walter. After the CC final I will always be happy to give Diaby a chance. We were so unlucky when he kicked Terry in the head. We lost our best player; they lost their worst – one who would never have been substituted under normal conditions. Diaby was awesome in that match – made Lampard seem very ordinary. I make him our fourth or fifth attacking midfielder behind Cesc, Rosicky, Nasri and probably Denilson. However, if we play Rosicky and Nasri as forwards, he goes up the pecking order to a regular place.

    I think that he will benefit when Walcott comes back. Walcott attracts markers, leaving more space in the centre of the park. Although Diaby loses the ball sometimes, it is normally to two or more defenders. They cannot give him that much attention and make sure they can double up on Theo.

    You are correct about Arshavin. He is top class. I think he was bought to replace Rosicky, but I hope we can have both. He will also benefit from Theo’s return. Remember the England game against Kazakhstan. When Young came on he stuck to the left touchline and was in acres of space all the time. Theo drags the whole defence to their left.

    Having said that, I am not sure where Theo comes in the pecking order. With RvP and AA as first choices, he is competing with Eduardo, Bendtner, Rosicky, Nasri and Eboue for a place. If Diaby is out then Bendtner provides some height. If we want more defence, then Eboue has provided that on occasion. Theo, Rosicky, Nasri and Eduardo are roughly equal imo.

  • sathis

    diaby needs 2 improve his passing ,n keeping d ball is very important.if diaby cn do jus that,he would b an important player 4 d gunners.as 4 arshavin,his a very gud player n him linkin up wit rosicky is simply awesome…..arsenal wil win smthn tis year fingers crossed guyz.

  • walter

    Gunnersgun, I can agree with what you say partially.
    Yes it would not be good to leave a player on the pitch for months when he can’t hit a pass over 2 meters to a free teammate. But I bet all of my money,(not that it aint that much) that in such a case AW will not leave him on the pitch for that long.

    All our players are good players, I’m not saying they are all the best of the world in their position (yet….) but from the moment a player is found worthy to wear our shirt by the manager he deserves our support.

    What I can not understand is that the crowd begins to grumble if a player gives a bad ball and then the next time he comes to the ball they begin to boo or so. THAT NEVER HELPED ANY PLAYER IN THE WORLD. (sorry for the shouting but it really annoys me)
    Like I said before on the rare occasions I get to the Emirates the last thing that will enter my mind is to boo any one else but that blind ref. Yes when a player misses a chance or gives a bad pass, I will scream out my ‘OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH’ in disillusion. But I will not boo him the next time he touches the ball.

    I also can not believe that a player gives the ball away to the other team with intent or that he misses a chance and feels happy himself. So if it happens the player will know that he messed up and he wont feel any better if the crowds gets on his neck.

    Let our manager work on the lesser side of the player. Players need confidence to give good performances and the booboys can bring the work of months or years from the manager to an end in half an hour.
    If you let the players feel that as long as there is commitment and hard work even when the things are not going well for a player, which can happen – human beings you know – then he will do his best and that is all I ask from our players.
    And I feel that is what we get from all our players on the pithc this season.

  • Abhishek

    I have a very fundamental question. If they are really pissed off with Arsene and his policies why don’t they go and support any other club.

    The reason I say is that Arsene never asked anyone from outside to support him. He is like a magnet who attracts fans like us and he is the best. Some fans were attracted to him during the invincible era.
    Now they have rusted and dont think that Wenger can hold them for long. Why dont they run away and support ManU. Oh nooo, these junkies will be called glory hunters as well as they probably know that Wenger can turn around any situation and they dont want to look fool again.

    For those who live near Arsenal ground cant they support Spurs. I have very limited idea of England and I dont how loyalities are created. But it looks like its pretty flexible far from here.

  • Sincere apologies to everyone who had to wait for their comments to appear on this discussion. When you post for the first time, or include a link in your post, your post is held in moderation. This is because each day we receive around 50 or 100 fake messages which are actually adverts and nothing to do with our topic.

    Normally I keep a regular eye on moderation messages but I left for the match at 3pm and got back after midnight, so have only just checked everything.

    It was nothing personal – honest! Everything was cleared around 8.45am UK time.

    Tony

  • walter

    Just want to ad one statistic on Diaby: 9 games in the PL and 3 goals.
    And I also have noticed that since the AZ goal he is challenging th ball better. I think he got a firm word from the manager for the AZ late goal in Alkmaar and since then he came close to scoring with headers in each game.
    Sorry, cant help it but I really think Diaby will become not the new Patrick Vieira but in maybe 10 years we will say he is the Abou Diaby

  • Adam Smith

    Offf subject with apologies. Kroenke buys another 200 shares taking him to 29.9%. Any comment Tony. I know we both believe it is a blocking move, but I didn’t expect this new acquisition so soon.

  • walter

    He bought some of the Hill-Wood shares so I really think that like someone said a few articles ago that Kroenke will buy up to 29,9 % and then stop.
    So it could be done in agreement with the current board ? Hope so.

  • On the share front.

    It seems that Kronke is buying shares but agreeing to pay for them at a later date, and is doing it with the agreement of the board. You cannot imagine a member of the board selling to him just so he can make a takeover that the board don’t want.

    What arises from this is that if Kronke does not have the cash (not assets but cash) to buy the shares he is buying day by day, then how does he have enough to buy the whole club. It seems unlikely in the extreme that he has got the money to go all the way and buy the whole club.

    But if he does – for example because any second now he is going to sell another asset he owns – what then? He buys a club that is totally mortgaged (as opposed to the buying Liverpool or Manchester United which were debt free, and thus open to the new owner borrowing totally against the new assets.

    So how does he raise money against the club, if that is his aim? He can’t because all the assets are used to guarantee the overdraft, and will be for the next 15 years. The only possibility is that he holds it for 15 years and then sells it – which maybe is not what we want but at least gives 15 years stability.

    So the key issues are

    a) he is on the board and therefore working with the knowledge and acceptance of the board. If he is working behind the board’s back he will be kicked off, like Dein was.

    b) he is not cash rich at the moment, so does not have the money to bid for the club

    c) the club is not cash rich and debt free as Liverpool and Man U were.

    d) Mr Usmanov is waiting in the wings and if Usmanov bids then Kronke can bid and mix up the situation. This situation could well be seen as a method of warning Mr Usmanov off. Mr Usmanov is not trying to outbid for these shares as far as I know.

    So I think it is a way of securing the position, and keeping the stability, and bringing in a man who clearly knows a thing or three about running sports clubs. No one has ever said that he has destroyed the clubs he runs elsewhere have they? I think his reputation is fairly sound.

  • ganesh

    Hmmm i don have any complaints against Diaby or anyone n i don think we need a DM .. Denilson can manage in tat ACN period but i think we do need a quality keeper .. Akinfeev n we sure wonmt concede tat unwanted goals .. Arsene told tat he wud sign players who would improve the team n its so clear tat Akinfeev will bring a lot to this team .. For me Almunia wont get ant bettr wit age unlike Mannone .. So wat do u guys think .. Comment mates!!

  • any1 who believes that Arshavin is useless is committing a crime for which even capital punishment is not enough a punishment.
    arshavin has come up with a superb performance in champs. time 4 some eggs on doubters’ face
    http://11gunners.com/matchday-review/directed-by-arshavin-starring-fabregas/2282/

  • diceman1984

    Gunnersgun:

    I don’t know what’s your point in hoping that I read the 2 quotes. Is it related to him playing best as striker? Wenger seems to think he’s not a DM that’s why he always said it’s hard for Diaby to think only defensively.

    You said everyone supported Song, I don’t think so mate. I still saw a lot and I mean a lot of posters saying Song is a liability. He’s not only the most improved player this season but had proved to be a very hard player to replace. We need him.

    Everyone has rights to moan. But what glommers do is ONLY moan.

    When I see one player played badly, I came up and criticized how he had a bad game.

    The difference is we don’t bitch about it.

    And I singled you out, gunnersgun, because although you may not be one of those gloomers we talked about, you said sarcastic and abusive things towards many well-wish comments.

    And most importantly, from what I can gather, you’re not a Wenger supporter. And us here don’t really like that from the beginning. He’s only the best manager.

    Criticize the man. Don’t bitch about it. Talk about players’ performances, criticized them, don’t bitch and only moan. Give them praises and support too, in which I think they’re getting a worse deal presently.

    It’s funny how I heard many Liverpool fans still brag and talk positively about their team and manager. While alot of so called gunners still moan and talk about not being good enough. And you think miracle don’t happy to us..,to get it we have to put our work in it first. You get what you give that’s why gloomers don’t deserve to celebrate when we win something.

    Pick your side, you are either a gunner or a loser….

  • diceman1984

    To add one more thing:

    About Diaby, he’s still improving. He’s still very young and for the first time ever he’s fully fit. So after 1-2 months he’s suddenly not good enough? Wenger’s persistent in playing him should be a couraging sign.

    I still remember moaners (yes they do moan in summer too) criticizing Wenger in buying a “short” Belgian centerback no one heard of. Give OUR players and greatest manager some faith.

  • walter

    I just think that Diaby and Arshavin read my article before the game and said to each other: “lets give Walter a break and give our best for him”. LOL. 🙂

  • mark

    Hi Walter agree totally on the diaby situation his passes gives off the feel he is nervous but i remember people laying into the signings of song and a one flamini but in time they shine do they shine bright (but the light goes dark in milan 🙂 ) I believe arshavin is different , Last week Robin confessed he didnt score or do as much in first few games as he was to tired from defending i think arshavin hasnt found the right mix of attack and defence for his fitness and with an attacking full back to cover really tires him out but as robin did he will find the right balance thats why he looks more effective in the centrol roll he doesnt need to track back and can have breaks to recouperat after tormenting a defence it is only matter of time

  • abiolality

    I can remember vividly at the early stages of last season,denilson was the subject of this criticism but produced man of the match performances at the later stages of last season.This is just to say that every player needs playing time which Diaby is getting at the moment but i am sure diaby will surely improve b!cos he wants to improve and also b!cos he is playing under the great ARSENE WENGER -the master tactician,who can think of replacing a great player like kolo toure with an unknown 10million pounds signing. ALL HAIL THE GREAT ARSENE

  • Paul C.

    I think a lot of this “moan and groan” stuff really heated up last November, when we were in all kinds of trouble. The “moaners and groaners” had a field day and many “normal” fans joined in, because the team really was in trouble and our season was close to falling apart. The “moaners and groaners” filled with confidence – yes, our time has come!!! We are going to be proved right!!! Yes, we are SMARTER than Arsene Wenger!!!!

    A funny thing then happened. Over the final 6 months of the season our young and ridiculously inexperienced (without Cesc and Theo for long periods as well) team fought like mad. They showed grit and determination. Results did not show it for a while, we got loads of draws and didnt make headway in the League and so the “moaners and groaners” thought that things were still terrible. But most fans could see things changing. Most fans could see character and determination and growing maturity. But still the “moaners and groaners” moaned and groaned. Then Arshavin settled in, and Cesc came back, and the team took off and passed Villa and made it to two semi-finals. We lost the semis to two of the best teams in the world and that gave the “moaners and groaners” a chance to crow again, but most fans could by now see past that.

    Over the summer the “moaners and groaners” went along with the media and screamed about how bad things were. But most fans could see the truth. Most fans were by now hugely optimistic about the season. I certainly was. I didnt know if we were going to win a trophy but I thought this would be one of the most entertaining teams in the world. But the “moaners and groaners” couldnt change their tune, they had too much invested in it. To change their tune would have been to admit they were wrong, and the “moaners and groaners”, for some reason, saw that as a sign of weakness. I see it as stupidity. I awake every morning and admit I am dumber than Arsene Wenger. I see no weakness in saying “Arsene Wenger is smarter than I am when it comes to football”.

    So now while most fans are having a great time watching this fresh young team, the “moaners and groaners” are stuck singling out inidvidual players and screaming “not worthy of wearing an Arsenal shirt” because they can no longer criticize the team as a whole. They must have SOMETHING to moan and groan about so they pick on individual players and compare them to Henry and Vieira and Bergkamp, true giants not only of Arsenal, but of the world game itself. Anyone would suffer in such comparison, but this fills the “moaners and groaners” with joy, because it makes them still feel as if they are somehow smarter than Arsene Wenger, and know more about football, and have something valid to contribute to the internet via blogs. And their fellow “moaners and groaners” join them in an ever decreasing circle, and they call themselves the “TRUE” fans.

    Meanwhile, most Arsenal fans are happy to criticize Diaby for his frequent losing of posession while applauding his effort and potential, most Arsenal fans are happy to criticize our defensive weaknesses while at the same time realising that this wonderful attacking team wll never be a defensive juggernaut. Most fans are having huge amounts of fun watching this team provide the greatest entertainment and value for money in the whole bloody world.

    I just think it is a pity that so many of the “moaners and groaners” cannot enjoy this moment.

  • diceman1984

    I bow to you Paul C.

    It’s that I always felt too but couldn’t get it out the right way.

    It’s so true that gloomers cannot give up their agenda, they think it’d make them look stupid. Most of them can’t even approve Song’s becoming of a great player. What a shame.

    I, along with you Paul C., woke up and know everyday that when it comes to football, Wenger is on another planet.

  • Paul C.

    Diceman – that is what it is, a shame, because most of the “moaners and groaners” are in fact passionate Arsenal supporters who are denying themselves the opportunity to watch a young team progress because of there own ridiculous and unrealistic expectations of what should constitute “success”. They believe, as the media tells them, that anything less than constant winning of trophies should be considered a failure. I think that many of the “moaners and groaners” truly and honestly believe that, and that is indeed a shame. That attitude totally rules out the possibility of BUILDING a team, and instead demands constant perfection and constant success. I personally think the BUILDING process is the best part of the whole cycle, because in years from now we might be able to look back and laugh and say “remember November 2008? Man, did things look bad then, huh? Lucky AW trusted in his players huh?”

    The funniest thing is that so many of the “moaners and groaners” criticise people like us for living in an “AW knows best” dreamland. Quite the contrary, I think of myself as very realistic. I actually view the “moaners and groaners” who expect trophies EVERY season and constant domination of the English game to be the unrealistic ones, with unrealistic expectations and unrealistic demands of players.

  • walter

    Paul C, You should have sent your comment to Tony Attwood.
    We could have said : great article.

    This really is great insight of how things developed and currently stand. If I had a hat, I would take it off for you. Great.

    And yes we all sometimes think that we know better than Wenger. But thats only af few seconds and then we realise the truth.

  • Gunnersgun

    to discman1984 & Pual C,
    read my posting carefully with intelligence (if u have)!!!!! & reply point by point. Don’t jump the gun & accuse without any basis.
    1)I DID NOT SAID HE PLAY BEST AS STRIKER (don’t put words into my mouth). I said should try to play him as a forward which u agreed, I quote yr word: “Wenger seems to think he’s not a DM that’s why he always said it’s hard for Diaby to think only defensively”
    2) I go through more than 75 blogs / website, in none I find any moaning about Song (maybe a lot of poster(s) in yr country or u go to a backdated website that has no updates). I said: “..In fact all support him & sees him as a vital part of the team. Again u supported me by saying:”..proved to be a very hard player to replace”
    3)quote yr word: “Everyone has rights to moan” Even AW moan & groan, does it means AW don’t love the team or club. Please explain ???
    4)What sarcastic and abusive things I said towards many well-wish comments ?? please quote examples.
    5)from what u gather is totally WRONG. FYI, I have been supporting Arsenal FC since 1967.
    6)quote yr word: “..to get it we have to put our work in it..” again u agreed with what I said: “We moan & groan b’cuz we want the players to improve!!!!!!!!!”
    7)I said: “Last night the whole team played very well, a few players were electrifying”, if this is not praises and support as well as encouragement, then what is it ??
    8)When Arsenal WIN we have BIG celebration but we don’t celebrate when Liverpool win.
    9)I have surfed the internet the for many years, in none of the blogs/ website I come across, the moaner & groaners said: “we are SMARTER than Arsene Wenger!!!! ” another make up story.
    10) every players make mistakes, some are deadly mistakes which we cannot afford. It is only when players make persistent mistakes we moan & groan. When Henry made mistakes or Mannone make mistakes did we moan & groan ??
    11)even AW compare Arsenal players like Marco Van Basten & C.Ronaldo, who are giant in the world.
    12)Quote yr word: “..We lost the semis to two of the best teams in the world..” did they win the specified trophy ?
    13) Quote yr word: “..their fellow “moaners and groaners” join them in an ever decreasing circle..” Please provide statistics to verify yr claim.
    14) quote yr word: ..while applauding his effort and potential..we moan & groan but we give due credit. we want to keep the players on their toes, reflect on what we said, if it is true, change for the better. that y you see a much improved Song
    15)Pual C. finally yr fox tail is revealed: Quote yr word:”Most fans are having huge amounts of fun watching this team provide the greatest entertainment and value for money in the whole bloody world.
    Are they Arsenal fans or are they just football fans looking for greatest entertainment from Arsenal but support other teams for trophies. Both of you are just like asking yr wife to be frugal but give price asset to mistresses.
    Only TRUE & HONEST supporters want the best for their beloved club, i.e play beautiful soccer & win trophies. There is absolutely nothing wrong in high aspiration. Even Ivan gadazis & Aw want the team to win SILVERWARE.
    16) AW also strive for perfection by winning every game. ONLY HYPOCRITES HIDE BEHIND “unrealistic expectations and unrealistic demands of players”
    In conclusion, both of u should be cook but first please check yr IQ. Before you type make sure yr brain/mind (if u have) is properly engaged to cook up better stories. Don’t let others tear yr stories to shred.
    I sincerely hope you can reply to all my points raised.

    To Mr Walter,
    I have NEVER even for one second think that I am better than AW.
    At least u wake up.
    A fool who knows his own foolishness is wise at least to that extent.

  • Paul C.

    Wow, Gunnersgun, how long did it take you to come up with that rather ridiculous post? And why did you bring me into your post? Did I bring you into my post at all? No, I didnt. But now you question my IQ, and infer that I am a fool. I have just gone back and read your original post for the first time and I see that you enjoy calling people stupid. So maybe that is simply your M.O. and I shouldnt be worried by it. You have asked me to reply to your points, but I will need some of them explained to me first, as obviously you are working from a much higher level of intellect than I am.

    My “fox-tail” (whatever the heck that means) is revealed by saying that fans are enjoying the entertainment that our team is giving, is it? I have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about when you say that, but I am sure you thought it sounded very good when you wrote it.

    Your post is riddled with grammatical errors and rather strange comments such as ““..We lost the semis to two of the best teams in the world..” did they win the specified trophy ?” Well, yes, Chelsea did win the FA Cup last season, did they not? And Utd did make the Champions League Final and were the defending champions, which I would say does indeed make them one of the “best teams in the world”. Or are you saying that winning the English Championship and making the Champions League Final does not qualify a team to be called one of the best in the World?

    And what on earth does “Both of you are just like asking yr wife to be frugal but give price asset to mistresses.” mean in the context of supporting Arsenal?

    And “we moan & groan but we give due credit. we want to keep the players on their toes, reflect on what we said, if it is true, change for the better. that y you see a much improved Song” almost makes it sound like you think that players actually listen to us fans and our ridiculous comments. Uh, they don’t. They know we are completely unrealistic, not rational, over emotional, and slightly insane when it comes to our team. Do they listen to Arsene Wenger and his coaching staff? Yes, I would hope so. But they dont, and never should, listen to the fans. If they did then Emmanuel Eboue and Alexander Song and many others would have left the club years ago given the amount of “he’ll never be fit to wear the shirt” comments headed in their direction.

    The one thing I would totally agree with is your comment that “ONLY HYPOCRITES HIDE BEHIND “unrealistic expectations and unrealistic demands of players”. But then I wonder if you completely missed my point on that front, since you almost seem to be using that comment to counter my argument, which is of course ridiculous as you are simply confirming what was saying and you, being so much smarter than I am, would never have made that simple mistake.

    And what does “In conclusion, both of u should be cook but first please check yr IQ” mean? I am asking honestly, because I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. What does “cook” mean in this context?

    In short, I would love to reply to more of your points one by one, as you have so kindly asked me to do, but I just have no idea what on earth what you are talking about half (or more) of the time.

    So, I will instead just say “peace to you, brother” and hope that we can announce some kind of truce. You brought me into one post of yours and now I have brought you into one post of mine. We are even in that respect. I should insult you and question your IQ to be truly even, but feel that would only propagate this thread further. Instead I am going to take your advice and go off to check that my brain is properly engaged after the masterly way you tore my post to shreds.

    I suppose I should try and figure out how you tore my post to shreds first, shouldnt I? Hmmm, this is now getting confusing for someone like myself, with such a small IQ.

  • steww

    Paul – thanks for that brilliant reposte. Truly entertaining. The post you were responding to was one of the most incoherent and bizarre pieces of writing I have ever seen, your restraint does you credit.

  • Gunnersgun

    Pual C,
    I don’t come to this blog everyday.
    Winning the FA cup, best team in the world ??? Arsenal must be at best in the world for 10 times (winners on 10 occasions), similarly for SPURS must be best in the world for 8 times as well as other FA cup holder.
    Y mu lost the CL to Barca in 2009, Arsenal lost to barca in 2006?? ONLY THE BEST TEAM BECOME WINNER
    Arsenal had gone unbeaten for A whole season & also set a record of 49 games without defeat. Before it happen maybe it is “unrealistic expectations and unrealistic demands of players” but definitely not after.
    If Arsenal do it again, is it “unrealistic expectations and unrealistic demands of players” ???

    To boo players when the game is in play is definitely NOT ACCEPTABLE. It is perfectly normal to boo (just to show yr disapproval) before the game or after the game if the player had played badly (If you lead a public life, you must be mentally tough & strong to live up to the fact that u are constantly under public scrutiny)….I don’t see any reason y cannot moan & groan on blogs, ultimately it is for thinking bloggers to decide for themselves. To silence moaning & groaning on blogs is damn bloody unhealthy. it will lead only to the development of sycophant mentality.

    Since u have call for peace & truce, I also do not wish propagate this thread further