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RefWatch – Fulham Vs Arsenal (02/01/2012 – 17:30)



Untold Arsenal on Twitter @UntoldArsenal


By DogFace

  • Referee: Lee Probert
  • Assistant 1: Stuart Burt
  • Assistant 2: Adam Watts
  • 4th Official: Kevin Friend

Good morning stat-fans and welcome to RefWatch… another super quick one as I forgot there was a game today – well, I didn’t forget, it just sort of crept up on me.

Asian Handicap (betting line) market:

Home Handicap Away
1.900 1/2 – 0 2.000

The Under/Over market:

Over Handicap Under
1.950 2 1/2 1.950

Let’s have a look at the Referee:

  • Full name: Lee W Probert
  • Date of birth: 13-Aug-1972 (Age 40)
  • Place of birth: South Gloucestershire
  • Resides: Wiltshire
  • EPL/ECH Referee Since: 2003/2004
  • EPL/ECH Games to date: 164

Lee Probert
Somewhere over the rainbow…

It’s Lee Probert again… you remember him:

Let’s check out his stats!

FPB = Fouls Per Booking (vertical axis)
BPM = Bookings Per Match(line width)
AHS = Asian Handicap Swing i.e. the deviation from the expected result(vertical axis)
PPG = Points Per Game(line width)
Therefore a high thin line for FPB/BPM would indicate a lot of fouls and very little bookings – and a low thin line for AHS/PPG would indicate an underperformance against the betting line and very few points taken.

Lee Probert has had 7 games for Fulham consisting of 1 win, 2 draws and 4 losses.

Fulham are currently in 40th in Lee Probert’s personal Points Per Game League (for teams with a minimum of 3 matches played), for matches in the EPL/ECH, with an average of 0.71 PPG.

In Lee Probert’s personal Handicap Swing League (for teams with a minimum of 3 matches played), for matches in the EPL/ECH, Fulham come 27th with an average negative swing of -0.21.

Fulham are currently in 15th in Lee Probert’s personal Booking’s Per Match League (for teams with a minimum of 3 matches played), for matches in the EPL/ECH, with an overall average of 1.29 BPM.

In Lee Probert’s personal Fouls Per Booking League (for teams with a minimum of 3 matches played), for matches in the EPL/ECH, Fulham come 11th with an overall average of 10.11 FPB.

Fulham’s figures under Lee Probert are pretty poor, they got something in 2010/2011 season in the way of points (but very little) and made the handicap but this might be reflective of them getting away with more in the challenge under him… it looks like they haven’t had a win under Lee Probert since the 2007/2008 season – since then it’s been 2 points from 6 games.

The colour of the line represents the player type.
The position of the line against the vertical axis will indicate the average time of the booking and the thickness of the line indicates the average number of bookings of players in that position.
Therefore a high fat orange line would indicate that the referee often books the specified teams defence out of the challenge early, a low thin line or no line would indicate the opposite.  The number of minutes bottoms out at 100 to indicate no bookings.

Above is a seasonal breakdown on how, when and where Fulham took all their bookings under Lee Probert.

The colour of the line represents the player type.
The position of the line against the vertical axis will indicate the average time of the booking and the thickness of the line indicates the average number of bookings of players in that position.
Therefore a high fat orange line would indicate that the referee often books the specified teams defence out of the challenge early, a low thin line or no line would indicate the opposite.  The number of minutes bottoms out at 100 to indicate no bookings.

Above is a seasonal breakdown on how, when and where Fulham’s opposition took all their bookings under Lee Probert.

FPB = Fouls Per Booking (vertical axis)
BPM = Bookings Per Match(line width)
AHS = Asian Handicap Swing i.e. the deviation from the expected result(vertical axis)
PPG = Points Per Game(line width)
Therefore a high thin line for FPB/BPM would indicate a lot of fouls and very little bookings – and a low thin line for AHS/PPG would indicate an underperformance against the betting line and very few points taken.

Lee Probert has had 3 games for Arsenal consisting of 1 win, 2 draws and 0 losses.

Arsenal are currently in 16th in Lee Probert’s personal Points Per Game League (for teams with a minimum of 3 matches played), for matches in the EPL/ECH, with an average of 1.67 PPG.

In Lee Probert’s personal Handicap Swing League (for teams with a minimum of 3 matches played), for matches in the EPL/ECH, Arsenal come 16th with an average positive swing of 0.17.

Arsenal are currently in 8th in Lee Probert’s personal Booking’s Per Match League (for teams with a minimum of 3 matches played), for matches in the EPL/ECH, with an overall average of 1.00 BPM.

In Lee Probert’s personal Fouls Per Booking League (for teams with a minimum of 3 matches played), for matches in the EPL/ECH, Arsenal come 10th with an overall average of 11.33 FPB.

As you can see we have only had 3 matches under Lee Probert; so we can’t draw too many conclusions. We underperformed under him last season in what was a bit of a shocker of a performance. I’m hoping that he’s going to make amends this match… curiously he was the fourth official in the Wolves home game under Stuart Attwell (if memory serves).

The colour of the line represents the player type.
The position of the line against the vertical axis will indicate the average time of the booking and the thickness of the line indicates the average number of bookings of players in that position.
Therefore a high fat orange line would indicate that the referee often books the specified teams defence out of the challenge early, a low thin line or no line would indicate the opposite.  The number of minutes bottoms out at 100 to indicate no bookings.

Above is a seasonal breakdown on how, when and where Arsenal took all their bookings under Lee Probert.

The colour of the line represents the player type.
The position of the line against the vertical axis will indicate the average time of the booking and the thickness of the line indicates the average number of bookings of players in that position.
Therefore a high fat orange line would indicate that the referee often books the specified teams defence out of the challenge early, a low thin line or no line would indicate the opposite.  The number of minutes bottoms out at 100 to indicate no bookings.

Above is a seasonal breakdown on how, when and where Arsenal’s opposition took all their bookings under Lee Probert.

Let’s move on now to check out how Lee Probert performs against selected teams in the EPL:

The ine thickness represents the average Points Per Game and the position of the line against the vertical axis represents the average swing againd the handicap.

Out of the big four, Arsenal show the most significant underperformance under Lee Probert and Manchester United are the stand out performers. The good news is that Fulham are very poor performers against the handicap as shown by the thin red line.

The Predictortron gives Fulham a -1.841346 disadvantage but this is based on very little data AND this is a late kick off which means high exposure. The betting line is set at half ball and Arsenal are the long odds – if pushed I’d buy Arsenal and go Over but I can’t speak for the masses.

Speaking of which; as your ‘pusher’ I am contractually obliged to offer you the opportunity to support this site and start the new year with a burgeoning addiction here.


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110 comments to RefWatch – Fulham Vs Arsenal (02/01/2012 – 17:30)

  • Gord

    Maybe I’ve been writing too much about uranium mining, but how does any team get to be 40th or 27th in a league of 20 teams? Maybe I am in critique mode, a friend asked me to proofread 6 mathematics papers in the last few days as well.

    I hope you had a nice holiday season dogface. You commented on the press release I dug up about PGMOL sponsorship, and think I am missing something. I am in NW Canada, so that isn’t surprising (and no, we don’t live in igloos). 🙂

    Heck, I wish all of UA that they had a nice holiday season.

  • Gord

    Oh, as Phil seems to be busy, and people like looking at guesses at starting line-ups, I stuck something in the “Hands up …” thread.

    http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/17735

    Too much of sports is about psychology. And for a science person like me to have a chance, I need data, which is hard to get. So I don’t claim to have any ability to pick a team. I think the last 2 times I tried I got shot down in a couple of ways. 🙂

  • Gord – you may not have been paying attention but the RefWatch series now incorporates EPL and ECH league data – also, teams can go up and well as down over the years.

    40th is pretty shit – yes, but that’s overall relative performance rather than actual league position.

    🙂

  • Gord

    Dogface – okay, I wasn’t paying enough attention.

    I’m going to guess that the lowest position from year to year, may not be 40th? It might be as little as 38th?

  • It’s taken as a figure over multiple seasons i.e. an ‘overall’ average – so yes, it depends on how many teams the referee has referee’d in the EPL/ECH… I would say 40th must be there or there abouts for rock bottom.

    BUT (if you note) these are for n matches played i.e. the teams will not be considered eligible for a league position if they have played less than n matches under a specified ref – I usually go for 5 but in this case I selected 3 (as Probert has only had 3 matches for us).

    You dig?

  • Johnny Deigh

    I smell a northern bias.

  • Gord

    @dogface

    I have a comment. It has no content as far as people who don’t understand programming. Which I am not going to write.

    I do hope you aren’t regarding this (extended) comment as criticism. If nothing else, I can easily appreciate you have more knowledge of the betting aspects of this prediction business.

  • @Gord – Any constructive criticism will be taken on board.

  • rantetta

    Suarez’s evidence was implausible and incredible

    The report added that Suarez had “damaged the image of English football around the world”.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/suarezs-evidence-was-implausible-and-incredible-6283774.html

  • Brickfields Gunners

    1-0 to the Arsenal will do fine for me .

  • WalterBroeckx

    My prediction for the ref score: if he has a good game he will be very even in his score. If he is bad he will mess up with the important decisions. (Based on 4 games so far this season 😉 )

  • Steve Vallins

    Did you see the SUN V CITEH game IMO the ref gave SUN nothing except a goal because an assistant could not keep up with play (fitness?) hope we dont suffer too much today

  • Thanks @Dogface,so most doom sawyers thought we are out of it but i still believe we can nick something this Season’ but will the men in the middle let us near the red carpet?
    When they see us nearer they are scared Shitless,so we need to score more than one goal and with the V/V(Van/Vroom) in the squad who is not scared of us!! Jol have already told his players not to focus on Titi but on the game an impact already!!
    Dogface when is a penalty? I cannot tell one anymore help me here.

  • @Kampala gun – Walter will explain, but from what I can see a penalty is a useful tool to give an advantage or to handicap a team i.e. by giving one at the drop of a hat against the team you wish to handicap [thus making them ultra-cautious in the box and the attacking team bullish] or by ignoring penalty infringements for the team you wish to give advantage to [allowing them to throw caution to the wind in ‘last ditch’ challenges against the attacking team] – it is also quite handy to dish a dodgy penalty out to the team you gave nothing to all game to avert suspicion that you may have rigged the match and are, in fact, just useless.

  • Mahdain

    i have a bad feeling that since now we are in the top 4 and certain people dont want us to be there, we are going to get a lot of shit refereeing performances more than we have had already which is saying something since we really have had bad to worse refereeing in our matches….as far as probert is concerned there are certain things that comes to mind when i think of him like that nzogbia dive which he awarded a penalty and not giving us blatant penalties… i can already bet that he wont “see” handballs in the box today but since that is already a norm against us(where opposition players are allowed to use their hands when its against us) i wont be suprised reall.lets just hope we put in a strong performance cos im sure probert is going to put a determined performance to stop us.. 1-0 to the Arsenal once again

  • Thanks @ DogFace.@Mahdain that’s the same feeling I’m having and we need to score at least more than a goal though 1 is not bad if its a winning Goal.

  • king gooner

    could be worse-you could have webbo,fat phil dowd,mike dean,clatteburg,lee mason,martin atkinson,chris foy-all well known gooner haters & atrocious refs & manure lovers to a man -can’t think of any specific matches that “probert”has stitched us uo in the past?here’s hopinf for a FAIR ref!

  • Fellow fans, dont worry. We have an old fox in our team now, at least for 2 months. Arsenal must just try to not keeping the ball too long and speed up the game! That refs will take a very long time to die to see our cups coming home!

  • Gord

    @dogface

    It is likely with the combined data, that not every referee will have the same number of teams they have officiated, and as pointed out earlier the maximum number of teams isn’t going to be some fixed number. Positions to 20th or even 30th probably are okay, but I think that somewhere around 30 you might want to switch to last, 2nd last, 3rd last and so on. If you are doing this manually, my suggestion is probably a pita. I know that in Perl you can index off the ends of arrays just as easily as off the beginning. But I think you are using MS-SQL, and I know nothing about that.

  • @Gord – or you could just have a 30th out of n in the text?

  • Johnny Deigh

    Anyone else see how bad Peter Walton screwed over Wolverhampton against Chelsea today?

  • walter

    half time: I’m not lightly to use the word racism but is it just me that has seen that this ref refuses to give any foul made on Gervinho, Song and Djourou but punishes each little contact our coloured players make?
    Right at the end of the first half I think there has been 3 fouls on Djourou in a space of 2 seconds and he just let play continue. Gervinho being clearly blocked by Senderos (I think) and again no foul given….

    It is the “r” word or other bias and incompetence

  • bjtgooner

    @walter

    I can’t be sure of the reasons but I noticed the fouls.

  • T Ross

    This is a fix. A simple, straight up fix. The double standards are ridiculous and we should have most certainly have had one penalty if not two. I seriously can’t take this if we don’t win.

  • Ronnie Brown

    What a terrible refeering performance this is, two clear penalties we should have been awarded, and ridiculous non existant fouls given against us and clear fouls not given for us.

  • Ronnie Brown

    Disgusted, still would have been even if they didn’t equalise.

  • Ronnie Brown

    And more non existant fouls given against us even after I typed that, possibly the worst ref performance I have seen this season bar the Newcastle match.

  • Ronnie Brown

    Since the Newcastle match I meant, we could have got back in the title race with a win here, we played very well as well.

  • Ronnie Brown

    What can you do against decsions like that though? It was consistant througout the game, we had a good attitude and spirit, that is very disapointing.

  • walter

    This ref did all he could to stop us from playing and he was very successful in his job.

  • Johnny Deigh

    I watched two bent, biased or incompetent refs decide two matches today. Put winning bets on Chelsea (4/1) and Fulham (22/1) + a losing draw bet (10/3) after Djourou got fouled by Zamora and was sent off.

  • Mandy dodd

    Pgmol 2 arsenal 1. Another two pens not given to us, constant fulham fouls on rvp let go. Song was scared to put a tackle in as he knew what was coming.
    Surely now is the time for the club to get something done?
    Some of the players look leggy and in need of a break, before the cavalry come to the rescue.

  • Mandy dodd

    Unfortunately squillacci will take the blame for this, but the ref clearly contrived this over the whole game.
    Wenger has to lift this team, must be difficult when it is now clear what they are up against.
    The better we start doing, the more the refs intervene.
    Why do we get treated to performances like that, yet the likes of Chelsea were helped in everyway possible?
    Bring back dein and let’s take on this bias

  • bjtgooner

    Screwed by Probert – I thought no ref could be worse than Atkinson, but this lump of organic matter was as bad if not worse. RVP was constantly fouled and no call. Fulham showed what a team of thugs they can be. But, strange the way the lay down for the manures!

  • Anne

    What’s the word? “Kelong?”

  • Anne

    I can’t wait to see the Ref Review on this one. I’m curious to find out whether Probert made it past 50% correct decisions.

  • Mahdain

    well done probert well done..mission accomplished…as you can read from my earlier comment probert proved all my fears..there are people who dont want us in top 4 and they`ll do everything in their power to stop us..once again two blatant penalties not given,never a red card and did rvp need to be stabbed for him to get the fouls? well done PGMOL well done

  • Ronnie Brown

    We are often not given penalties that are penalties, today though there were two really clear ones, Gervinho had his foot kicked from him, and Van Persie was pushed off the ball with no attempt to play it.

  • Ronnie Brown

    Also did anyone else notice the non existant fouls that kept getting given against us? There was one time the ref even tried to give a freekick AGAINST us when Fulham handballed it.

  • Mahdain

    and the red for djourou? foul FOR us…seriously untill when will this continue? why have they chosen us? no wonder is fuming and saying things as they are…which means ofcourse a ban is on the way

  • walter

    Yes Ronnie it was amazing the assistant saw the handball from the Fulham player signalled it correct and pointed in the direction of the fulham goal so this means free kick in favour of Arsenal and the ref in his haste to screw us gave the free kick to Fulham….

    But like I said at half time this was a ref on a mission from the first minute

  • Mahdain

    *wenger

  • Mandy dodd

    We were tired and not at our best today, guess you have to be if you are taking on 12 men.
    Some of these guys have performed heroics but clearly need a rest
    Was interested to hear the stat that we have used more players this year than the whole of last year, shows how bad the injuries have become.

    My prediction for 2012, jack Wilshere needs to be careful with these refs, he will undoubtedly be in their sites when he returns if he starts playing in the way we know he can.

  • Johnny Deigh

    yeah Ronnie, that was a joke. The linesman flagged Dempsey for handling (probably should have been booked for that too), and then the ref assumed it was Djourou who handled it.
    Ref also missed it when Dempsey climbed all over Mertesacker to head that ball. Dempsey must have jumped 10 feet high on that one.

  • Shard

    2 days after beating a fix, we succumbed to one. Even though it took a mistake from Szczesny and possibly one from Squillaci (and Coquelin who didn’t get close to Zamora), the real man of the match was the referee. Just 1 word to describe him. CHEAT!! Pure and simple. How many penalties and goals have we been denied of late, forget the entire season? 2 against QPR, definitely 1 today, possibly 2, 1 against ManCity (and a disallowed goal) And I’m sure I’m forgetting many. This is just off the top of my head. All the while I was watching in the second half, I was thinking this is like Dowd against Newcastle, except even more clever because he managed to keep a relatively low profile.

  • Mahdain

    wenger post match interview that says a lot
    “We missed many chances and had some bad decisions from the referee today. The two together made the difference.”

  • Mahdain

    on the Gervinho penalty claim: “It was a joke. When Djourou got booked first they tried to get him a second yellow and the referee was naïve enough to give it. It should have been a foul to us.”

  • Anne

    @Shard:

    You’re right that this was the equivalent of Dowd against Newcastle. First time all season I’ve seen it get this bad. I agree with Walter that it was completely obvious before the end of the first half.

  • Mahdain

    when asked if Philippe Senderos’ foul on Gervinho should have been a penalty: “200 %. BUT WE KNOW WE DON’T GET PENALTIES. There was one against QPR and one today. It is unfortunate to lose a game like that because the game should have been over at half-time. We were unlucky today and the referee played a massive part in this game.”

  • slim

    Interviewer: “What do you mean you have consistent problems to face.”
    Wenger: “Nothing.”
    Glad to see we’re finally doing something against these f***ing incompetents.

  • gariago

    Keeping a low profile by calling soft fouls in the middle of the field against us, and not calling any against us. That on top of a fatigued team…

  • Mandy dodd

    Wenger seems furious, saying they were unlucky, the ref had a major effect on the game and that we are not being given clear penalties.
    Time to take this further, like kenny or purple nose would do

  • Shard

    and also..I’ve finally reached the point where I agree with something that was proposed on this site much earlier.. Stewart Robson should be sacked by Arsenal. It’s not about him criticising Arsenal.. But he seeks to LIE about Arsenal. The penalty against Gervinho he called it a dive and ‘he went down too easy’. Absolute nonsense and so obviously playing to an agenda that he should not be the voice of Arsenal tv. Let him spew his bile elsewhere and not make money from our club.

  • Mahdain

    i had to write that “we know we dont get penalties” with caps to emphasize on that..now why would wenger say that? oh yeah he has every reason to say that..opposition handballs become non existent when they play us and they can do whatever they want to our players in their box without being punished in whatever way…im seething here

  • SIGN_A_DEFENDER!

    I think we can all conclusively say that Probert ”fucked us over” tonight! What a prick! Once Djourou got sent off, I knew we would loose. A blantent penalty on Gervinho turned down, and a few chances off side when they clearly were not. He also gave a freekick against us then changed his mind, hence why the crowd were chanting ”You don’t know what your doing” 3 points dropped, back into 5th! We need to sign a defender proto now! We looked light in attack also. Here’s hoping we don’t get him any time soon, along with my other ”favourite” referee Phil Dowd. Come on you Gunners!

  • Anne

    @Ronnie and Walter:

    Did you notice how the announcers were trying to justify and cover up every bad call? But the handball incident was almost hilarious in that regard….

    They actually said that Probert must have gotten confused because Arsenal and Fulham both have white sleeves on their uniforms.

  • Ugandan Goon

    don’t agree with the low profile bit as he seemed determined to block players getting to the ball mosat of the time and seemed incapable of following the play by turning his neck, i have long since left them to it, what a waste of an hour and a half. we can support the club all we want but it seems there is a malign influence determined to level the playing field by undercutting talent.
    @shard,
    the newcastle game is a valid comparison, when ever the game looks to be a comfortable victory for us, there seems to be a voice from on high(in the stands) that directs the ref to balance it all out, i mean djourou’s first yellow, what difference was there between that and 20 orso fouls committed by fulham during the course of the game/ or the second for that matter?

  • Mandy dodd

    Gervs pen claim looked very similar to the one earlier in the year against Newcastle, a clear pen yet gerv ended up being sent off.
    A question, there seems to be a north south bias with the refs, there is clearly a bias in favour of some teams by some refs, will be very interesting to see where the spuds fit into the scheme of things as the season plays out.

  • Anne

    @Mahdain:

    I’m seething too. Lee Probert is lucky that his jaw is not within reach of my fist right now.

  • gariago

    low profile relative to the Newcastle game. Besides the penalty calls that are now traditionally not given to us there were no “big” calls

  • Shard

    I didn’t say low profile.. I said RELATIVELY low profile. Relative to Dowd @Newcastle that is.. I meant to say that this was a ref performance as ‘good’ as Dowd’s, but it won’t attract as much attention as that did. (Probably because Probert didn’t have to pull back 4 goals) And as Walter and Anne have pointed out, the timing of the ref-shite was Dowd-esque too. Just before the end of the first half, it started getting more and more overt.

  • Rich_Fryer

    Robbed by a ref again. They are being consistant

  • @Mahdain i think wot we talked on earlier have come to pass,we will fight harder to be even in the top 6 the way things are going. @DogFace earlier on i asked you when is a penalty and Dogface you where spot on. Like i said we need to score 2 one is not enough.

  • Anne

    It was low profile relative to the Newcastle match, but I wouldn’t call it low profile. That Newcastle match was just a complete match fixing cock up. But this one was still pretty blatant.

  • gariago

    we agree Shard

  • bjtgooner

    @Anne

    I am also seething, but if I got hold of Probert he would be hurting in many places, not just his jaw!

  • gariago

    Consistency, that is all we ask

  • So guys what next?? We are on a different planet compared to others,wot do we need to do!

  • Anne

    @bjtgooner:

    Haha… That’s true for me too, but I was trying to be polite to more sensitive readers.

  • Shard

    bjtgooner

    I agree with that sentiment. Maybe Arsenal should follow the example of the movies
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDt_Wyut4JY

  • Mahdain

    what makes me really mad is that its now a norm that blatant penalties are not given to us….handballs are magically not seen and our players need to have their leg broken inside the box before the ref awards a penalty..seriously we need to take care of this as its getting ridiculous….you can say we have to score more goals but then phil dowd at newcastle comes to mind where even 4 goals were not enough to stop him screwing us over..maybe a small talk with riley might REDUCE this blatant bias? i said reduce because given riley`s history against us its highly unlikely for this to stop all together

  • Mahdain

    i just cant wait to see who they send us next..has to be one of the unholy trinity..when are the ref appointments coming out?

  • Rich_Fryer

    I think perhaps Arsene should make a public apology for whatever it is that he has done that has led to such blatent and constant cheating. Perhaps he could wear sackcloth and ashes to matches

  • bjtgooner

    @Shard

    Thanks for the link – good starting point!

    More seriously, something drastic needs to be done about the PGMOL and the FA etc who protect them.

  • That was an interesting turn of fortunes for Fulham under Probert… he gave them a lot didn’t he?

  • Mahdain

    @bjtgooner agreed..the FA and the PGMOL are in cahoots and thats why whenever a manager says something bad about a ref he ends up with a ban and/or a fine…they paint them as saints..

  • Mandy dodd

    Not sure if anyone else agrees, but did anyone notice the treatment rvp was getting, all of which went unpunished? Was that ref performance even more sinister than it first appear, maybe trying to encourage a team to take out our talisman? Now that really would harm this team

  • dan

    No worries people just wait and think its taking FA&PGMOL to fuck us over, we must be doing something right!

    For all their bad calls and bias against us we have defied the odds and shot up the table.

  • dan

    @ Basil

    Right you R sir, it was the likes of you who was calling for Wenger’s head in August.

  • Mahdain

    @basil you must be used to mediocrity then…what does the referees have to do for us to question them? score goals for the opposition? has to be a resident of a certain le groan…

  • dan

    We do need to take our chances, the 1st half we coasted into promising positions only to tap the ball hoping it finds the net, Gervo is trying too hard to please the fans & Walcott swapped boots with Torres.

  • WalterBroeckx

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4lMbSr2ZYk

    the reason for Probert disliking Arsenal and Wenger because if I remember right the Fa apologised to Wenger for being sent off?

  • Shard

    @MandY Dodd

    Not sure if that was the motive, though I wouldn’t put it past them. (We have suffered numerous leg breaks as a result of the refs and the media’s encouragement to thugs after all.) But RVP was definitely not being allowed to influence the game at all because Probert would just never call a foul against Fulham when they wrestled with Robin.

    The message I think is clear. Arsenal cannot finish in the top 4. That won’t be acceptable to the powers that be. They tried it last year too when they kept robbing us even when we fell out of the title race. Eventually Liverpool and Spurs were too useless to take advantage of that. This year, they might just be that little bit better than last, and the refs might just succeed in pushing us out. Though I still think we are good enough to beat any but the most blatant season long fix.

    Of course, I fear that is exactly what we are seeing. I hope I am wrong about that. I really do. I wish that the refs are just incompetent or make mistakes, and that I’m just being tribal in my loyalties and being paranoid.. But really.. Despite wishing that to be the case, I don’t believe it is so. Football is crooked, and despite loving Arsenal, I am slowly reaching the point where I might have to reconsider watching it. Except maybe as scripted drama with a slight potential for improvisation, as long as it doesn’t mess with the basic plot.

  • goonergerry

    So Probert decided from the outset to award the game to Fulham-I wonder why? Its not as if the crowd put him under any real pressure.

  • Mahdain

    @shard sadly i agree with you..they cant even make it look less obvious…i have said it all along there are people who dont want us in the top 4 and theyll stop at nothing to ensure we dont end up in those ucl positions… our players are fighting really hard in games to make sure we dont succumb to them and yeah we do manage to escape them in some o.e QPR and then they overpower us in others ala today…the state football is in right now really makes me wanna stop watching it but how can i do that when my Arsenal also play it? i love my Arsenal sooo much to miss that i just cant miss their matches deliberately

  • Tone

    Probert is a cheating bribe accepting k8nt, the FA are a bunch of cheating bung taking k8nts and the schedulers on MOTD are also k8unts. Neil Warnock is a k8nt for saying RVP is a “clever player, always committing sly fouls”! What ak8nt!

    I am getting a bit sick and tired of this constant cheating k8untery by the officials obstructing the progress of our team. Sick I tell you!

  • Shard

    Another parallel with Newcastle is that prior to that game, we managed to beat Everton where Mason awarded Everton a blatantly offside goal. But 2 matches in a row was too much for the team, despite the monster first half we had. Similarly, we beat QPR and Atkinson 2 days ago. This was a match and a referee too far.

    @walter
    Thank you for reminding us what a snivelly, snitchy **** Probert is. You can also see his match against Wigan last season where he awarded a penalty for a dive by N’Zogbia and didn’t award a penalty to us for a clear handball to see he screws Arsenal over. The fact that only now do I notice him as specifically being anti-Arsenal shows either my poor observation powers, or that he actually does somehow manage to keep a low profile. Lower than he should. Time for Probert to be promoted to a FIFA badge level Mr. Riley.

  • RedGooner

    I always say follow the money and you find out whats wrong.

    Its Sky’s league, They pay for it and they control it through their own media. The biased media from sky live punditary provides the thoughts for the rest of the un imaginative hacks that write for the sun and the other crap papers out there.

    Then the media as a whole provide the basis for what the Pgmol and everyone else can get away with. If sky says Arsenal get to many easy penalties and free kicks its picked up on by the hack journalists with no imagination and read by the Refs and it possibly influences them.

    Why does it happen to us …I think because we dont sell the EPL the big stories of spending 50 million on a player to join Arsenal in the EPL does not happen, we dont operate that way so therefore we dont help sell Skys product and help them make more money from ratings etc.

    They dont want a prudent manager who picks up players not on their radar for pittance. What Arsenal do isnt news and doesnt sell like ManUtd over the years and now their new favourites Mancity, to see us win a league would be a dissaster for SKY.

    Big spending teams make it exciting.
    Anyone else got a theory to why we always get screwed over I would love to hear it.

  • bjtgooner

    @Mandy Dodd

    I agree, nearly every time the ball went to RVP he was chopped down, no foul given.

    Injuring RVP may indeed have been a side motive, but I suspect because all the top teams dropped points over the Christmas period, the FA/PGMOL decided or were instructed that we had to lose today.

    Did anyone see Walcott get felled off the pitch?

    Re Zamora – he was involved in the Djourou sending off – when he dived trying to get a penalty; he also was involved in the handball farce – what a cheating prat.

  • Shard

    @RedGooner

    Sorry. I think you are wrong. How can you say Arsenal aren’t big news. Look at all of us on this site here. There are Arsenal fans all over the world. Millions of us. If Sky want to, they can talk about Arsenal in complementary terms, and use all our positive aspects to sell their product even better. Arsenal with the sexy football, and the internationally diverse squad are the global marketer’s dream. If this really were just about Sky and selling a product, I would say Arsenal should be favoured over somebody like Spurs for instance.

    Where I think you are on the right track is that we don’t spend big money. For some reason, spending money gets you in the good books of the old boys coterie running football. Why? Money laundering is one motive that more and more makes sense to me. The good news is, I think it is cyclical. I am almost willing to bet that in a few years, the French League will be considered ‘the best league in the world’ as the money shifts there. A title held by Italy in the mid 90s, and then briefly by Spain. It’s England’s turn right now. Germany have done well to stay away from it, and it really does make for an exciting league.

  • Adam

    Did anyone feel that after the first goal went in we started to play fluid football only to be stopped. You can see the psychological aspect of the game at play here, and this is where the ref for me, earnt his backhander today. Walter please correct me if im wrong, but I do see today as an example of a referee directing a result.

  • DC

    Whether we think that the boys were fatigued or several great chances and opportunitues were not taken to make the scoreline more secure; the continuously poor performances of the so-called “professional” match officials was again a disgrace to top-flight sport anywhere in the world!
    It’s rapidly becoming more clear to me that Arsenal FC are better just focussing on European competition as they as a collective are more likely to be treated with equality in how they go about their footballing business both on and off the pitch! Unfortunately, qualification into the Champions league top 4 spots is still at the mercy of the English footballing authorities, their cronies and their inept officials!
    The overt bias that now exists in favour of certain clubs, managers and players (and i think we all know exactly who those are?!) in this English “premier” league is so clear and obvious that it’s become farcical and laughable; and it has now ruined the top flight game in England as a competitive spectacle! No wonder the English national team bi-annually fails to perform with any credit as soon as their EPL favoured players enter the international refereeing pool in the big competitions?!
    There are now far too many incompetent, or corrupt – either way it’s massively disturbing!, officials and bureacrats in the EPL for it to be coincidental any longer!
    The 115 page FA report of the Suarez racism charge and decision makes fascinating reading and is a classic MO of how the referees in the EPL behave and how, once they are officially challenged along with their bosses, the truth has to come out when there is a body of overwhelming evidence in a very serious matter! If justice and fairness for the Arsenal way of doing things under Arsene over the past 7 years is to ever be recognised and respected again in English football with his “foreign” youngsters for the betterment of ALL in English football, Arsenal FC have to officially raise these concerns publically as Evra did with his racism case! At that point, whatever incompetence, discrimination or bias exists (it doesn’t really matter what one chooses to call it) it will have to be confronted head on and “reliably” and “credibly” explained away from all of the evidence that has now been accrued! After all, all of Arsenal’s matches of disgraceful injustice are on multi-camera playback which can be easily accessed and studied.
    From the Suarez case, video evidence does appear to be the only way to formally address this serious issue in a matter-of-fact way that the officials and English footballing authorities cannot evade or explain away indefinitely with their usual arrogance and impunity! If this is never done, and it’s sad for me to say, Arsenal will never win anything again whilst Arsene’s in charge unless he starts to play the English game the way that the English authorities want him to play (i.e. Spend loads of money that’s not from your earnings, buy overly expensive and average English players as the “spine” of your team, or play long-ball rugby football with the archetypical English striker and Centre-forwards)!

  • Mandy dodd

    Strange had a look at a few aaa forums, hardly a mention of the ref, just the usual. Some of our fans must be unique, ignoring blatant official bias just cos it suits their agenda to turn on the manager. Maybe other fans are right, maybe a lot of our fans do lack passion?

  • bjtgooner

    @Mandy Dodd

    I suspect the AAA were deliberately created to compliment the anti Arsenal bias in the press and refereeing. It looks as if someone planned for all three to work together. I don’t think our fans lack passion, but the AAA will try to play their part in misleading fans by creating disillusionment and discontentment at every opportunity.

  • Johnny Deigh

    Doesn’t anyone else think there could be a connection between Peter Walton’s performance helping Chelsea win and move into fourth place, and Lee Probert’s performance hurting Arsenal?

  • Mandy dodd

    Could well be right bjt, just referring to some of them as the fans who lack passion for,the club.
    God, I would love to know who or what is behind what this team are experiencing.
    Today, think wenger went as far as he ever has done in suggesting something is seriously wrong. I really hope the club take this further, they certainly have enough evidence.
    Notice no post match fa reviews of arshavin being elbowed either

  • bjtgooner

    @ Mandy

    Yes, I agree about the Arshavin incident. Just imagine the outcry if Song had been responsible for something like that.

    While we fans are very fed with what is happening, just imagine how the players feel. They have been kicked all round the park by Wolves, QPR and now Fulham – as if the players of those teams knew that they would get away with a certain level of thuggery. On top of that we have been cheated out of points.

    Like you I hope the club does take this further.

  • Tasos

    In the after match press conference Arsene Wenger continually questioned the performance from Lee Probert.

    “The referee influenced the game in completely the wrong way in My opinion” clearly annoyed by this continues bias that affects his team he went on to say “We are guilty because we still gave two goals away, I felt in a stupid way and we didn’t take our chances but as neutral as you can be, nothing went for us from the referee today, nothing at all and we cannot change that, we have to live with it, unfortunately”.

    Asked by a reporter “what do you have to do win a penalty?” he replied “We had a penalty in the last game, clear handball, we had a penalty at Man City, we had a penalty at Villa Park and we don’t get it, you should not ask Me, I don’t know”.

    Yet another dodgy performance from an EPL official to add to the ever growing list against our club. Wenger looked distraught with Lee Probert when walking off the pitch tonight, he also looked at his wits end in the press conference and came as close as he has ever done to raising questions of corruptness in our league.

  • Jerry

    Been a long time since I posted (sorry busy with studies between Arsenal games), but I have still been reading the articles and want to say the site and all the work Untold has been doing looks great! The game was just frustrating to watch because of the blatant ref bias! I like that Arsene really took a dig this time at the refs, according to the Guardian:

    “Wenger marched towards Probert at full-time before seeming to think better about a confrontation and diverting towards the dressing room. “You know what you get [in those situations],” he said, before he addressed the subject of the non-penalty awards. “We had a penalty in our last game [against QPR], a clear handball; we had a penalty at Man City; we had a penalty at Villa Park [none of which were given]. You should not ask me why. I don’t know.”

    That was the last paragraph though, most of the article seemed to try and refute what Arsene was saying it seemed:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/02/arsenal-arsene-wenger-referee-fulham

  • Mandy dodd

    Is this the game that finally does it for arsenal? Is this the time to take a stand? The last few games have been sickening. If this were a one off, it would be bad enough but it is far from that. This is a systematic attempt to undermine our club. It has to stop. Arsenal employ some very clever people, they have to act now. We are not just up against the unholy trinity, it seems there are several others who have it in for this club, it’s players or it’s manager.
    This site has gone into many possible reasons. Match fixing for profit, north south bias, personal bias, maybe some wanting to undermine the current board so they can move in, xenophobia, or maybe, they just want three northern giants to get a clear run at what will eventually become a European super league, with room for just one London team, and guess what, it ain’t us!
    Wenger gives the firm impression he knows exactly what is going on. He is good friends with dein to this day, he certainly knows what is going on. Wenger hinted after certain games last season, namely the home defeat to villa, but today, he seemed stronger in his convictions. Wenger is no stranger to fighting corruption, we all know about the marseille issue. Are things following him and boro p?
    The thing that sickens me, some of our own fans seem taken in by this agenda.
    Ivan g, you are a smart well paid guy, time to go into the corridors of power and stop this.
    To me , that was as bad as dowd. He was going to get jd, or song. He got one and neutralised the other. He should never referee an arsenal game again, his bias is clear, along with a few of his colleagues.

  • Be interesting to know, how many nailed-on penalties Arsenal have not been awarded this season?
    I’m beginning to think that there really is a conspiracy to stop Arsenal finishing in the top four…..
    Certainly not at the expense of financially doped Chelsea.

  • Prasanna Veeraraghavan

    I don’t know I believe the referee came in to the game with a single point objective to deny Arsenal everything. Not even a single call should go in our favour. It had all the ingredients to make it look more intentional and I believe its high time the Arsenal Management take it up with Riley or whoever sicko who runs the admin.

    Am eagerly looking forward to the review to see how the damage was done. I don’t really believe both Djourou’s cards were cards really. I felt sick and felt like is this man crazy? It was like he is playing the twelvth man for Fulham but why?

    I believe it was intentional to control Arsenal when every other top team had failed last weekend. But this is going crazy outright crazy. Denying handballs, forgetting to see fouls(or is it selective blindness???), seems the hatred is going deep down.

  • Arvind

    I thought that first half of football was really really good. Fulham couldn’t touch the ball and we looked so good. But I was already yelling at the ref for ‘keeping things moving too much’ at halftime even when we were ahead. So frankly when it got to 75+ I thought we might might just hold out; sadly that was not to be and its a sickening result, specially if the Manchester clubs win today.

    The referee was grossly incompetent yet again with 2 clear penalties denied, turning a blind eye to Risse pushing Walcott into the advertising boards and a hilarious attempt at ‘giving’ a free kick to someone. Plus too much kicking for my liking. Yes, keep it flowing…I like that, but a foul is a foul..sad.

    Lastly I’d like to take a minute to salute the performance of Laurent Koscielny yet again. The guy on form has to be the best CB in the EPL right now. He’s just held everything together at the back for us while everything else has shifted all the while.

    Keep fighting guys..that’s all you can do.

  • Ronnie Brown

    I also remember Walcott getting pushed off the ground and no freekick being given let alone a red card, how can they even justify decsions like that?

  • walter

    The ref review nears completion.

  • The Spartan

    I have taken many years of my beloved Arenal FC being robbed but I cannot take any more of it. My New Year`s resolution is only to watch the CL games as I am now convinced beyond any doubt that the EPL is fixed. What`s the point of watching?

  • Look at what happened to Arshavin if it was one of ours the media could be asking for someone to be hanged. Have anyone seen it anywhere as they always do against us! But When GOD is on your side you will always prevail,we have all the morons coming to Emirates and if we get those whore-lists refs let boo them lets not give them a breather,lets get behind our team and we will prevail we are the 12man and we can do that if we decide to do it. LETS GO GUNNERS

  • DAN HIGHAMS PARK GUNNER

    Absolutely sickened again by this cheating by the referees.
    i think this is the 5th game in a row when we have been denied
    blatant penalties.
    Think wenger has a right to moan as this must be more than a coincedence.
    like the Spartan i find it hard to be enthusiastic about premiership games as we seem to be cheated by dark forces every game.

  • WalterBroeckx

    The ref review is done and published. Now where is a bucket so I can throw up my breakfast…this is sickening….

  • T Ross

    They don’t. They don’t even try to justify their decisions. You have to consider the way the FA works – it’s an organisation which penalises, punishes, fines and bans those who talk against it if there is even the most remote chink in their argument. Yet it is an organisation who never apologise for any of the appalling decisions which go on under their watch.

    The FA (and FIFA, and UEFA, and all of the other associations that I know much about) act like organisations which do what they like and make it exceedingly clear that they do what they like. They act like what one would imagine a deeply corrupt organisation would act.

    There are very few popular conspiracy theories I believe in – in fact I struggle to name one. But I believe in this. I believe that football as a whole is absolutely corrupt to its core. It’s corrupt at the very highest level where England’s clearly-worthy World Cup bid was not just beaten but annihilated. It’s corruption will be shown when the Man City Etihad deal is allowed by UEFA, something I cannot seriously doubt will happen. And it’s corruption is shown every day not by the fact that there is bad refereeing but by the fact that it seems to do absolutely everything in its power to cover up the bad refereeing or in any way act to improve it.

    When I started reading this (unbelievably brilliant – thankyou so much to all major contributors) website I was, as I always am, sceptical. I had believed for a long time that the refereeing was bad and that we were getting the harsh end of the stick – but I would not have at that point considered it to be institutionalised corruption. It only took about a year of me reading from this website for me to be utterly convinced.