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Was it just inept or… no it can’t be…? Time wasting out of all control

By Walter Broeckx

Well this is a better day to be a Gooner.  A narrow but fully deserved 1-0 win over a team that came for only thing: destroy whatever football is if possible.  We have seen another exhibit of time wasting and bending the rules till it get ridiculous.

And all this with a ref who was very very very very very very inept. Maybe it is just karma that the goal for Arsenal looked one that was against the rules. Because I think that Arteta might have been offside when he first headed against the crossbar.  Because for the one split second Arsenal bend the rules (not that being offside is really bending the rules) QPR lost the game. But I am waiting for the referee reviewer on this because maybe there is an angle where you can see the full goal line and maybe there was another defender somewhere along the line (the one that attempted to stop Arshavin maybe?)

But the amount of time wasting we have seen was again unseen before. And our friend the ref? He stood there and …did nothing.  Now of course it could be that he didn’t noticed the time wasting. But then I can only ask myself: how on earth did he get there?  That is something that as a ref you should be aware that it can happen and then you have to act and stop it.  I have seen a few refs doing this very well this season (Clattenburg just to name one) so one can assume that a ref in the PL must have heard of the notion of time wasting before. This ref on the day seemed to have never heard of it and didn’t do anything about it.

Another thing he didn’t seem to know was that when a free kick has to be taken the wall has to be 9.15 meters away or 10 yards. And this has to be the distance WHEN THE BALL IS KICKED! Because on almost every occasion the ref put the wall at about the correct distance. But then he allowed the wall to come forward again and so on a few occasions the wall was at some 6 meters distance away from the ball. And thus making it impossible to produce a decent free kick.

Surely a ref in the PL has to be aware of the phenomena of a wall encroaching by taking little steps over the ground without lifting their feet. An invisible moonwalk one could say. How on earth can a ref not notice this? How on earth can he not notice that the wall is no longer in the position he put it in the first place???? How on earth can a PL ref let this go so many times? Okay it can happen once. But twice means you are not paying attention. But almost all the time…it means that you are not suited as a ref in the PL.

And then we have not just the time wasting from QPR but the time wasting by …the ref himself. I think he was the only person in the ground to not notice the fact that one team (QPR) was doing all it could to stop the game flow. And I think he was the only person in the ground to not notice the fact that one team (Arsenal) was doing all it can to keep the game at a high tempo.  Of course he noticed this. And if not: just another example of hem not being fit to be a ref in the PL.

On almost any occasion when Arsenal had a free kick close to the QPR penalty area he used over one minute of game time. First he had to discuss with almost every player on the field what was going on, what they would have for dinner later this evening, the colour of the grass (which was rather green), it took ages before he even started to put the wall in the correct place.

And then he had to chat with the players in the wall about some facts that we cannot know. But I surely hope he didn’t tell them that they could not move forward to the ball. It looked like that but surely… then he should have punished it. But he didn’t. So what was he wasting Arsenals, yours and my time?  It just took ages to get everyone ready and by the time the Arsenal players could consider taking the free kick the wall was standing just a few yards away again. Time and time again.

Missing it once can be excused. Missing it twice raises questions. Missing it all the time shows that either you are completely unfit to be a ref in the PL or….

So he was inept when it came to time wasting from QPR. He was inept when it came to putting the wall at the right distance. He was inept by wasting time when Arsenal wanted to take a free kick. I leave the rest of his performance to the ref reviewer but this was something that made my ref blood boil.

And then to add to the insult of being a poor….or was it a biased ref, he did something extraordinary at the end of the 90 minutes. Now I know that when a team has wasted a lot of time and has bent the rules that if they lose when the time is up I will not allow them extra time. If QPR wanted to equalize of win the game, they should have hurried up a bit in the 90 minutes. And now with all the time wasting they got rewarded with 5 minutes of extra time to rescue a point.

And it was QPR that had wasted all the time! And yet the ref gave them 2 extra minutes outside of the more or less mandatory for the substitutes.  I think that made it clear that he was a man with not that noble intentions.

All his failures and all those failures going against Arsenal gave me the impression that he was once again trying to do his best to step in the footsteps of Dean in the previous seasons. Mr. Taylor you  really had a bad performance and all those things going against Arsenal didn’t look good.

But at the end of the day we spoiled your party. And if you really didn’t do it on purpose it is time to look at your performance on TV again. And see how you did all to take the speed out of the game, let the wall move closer without stopping it and not punishing the time wasting. Time to take your courses in your hands, time to try to the feeling of the game. Because on the things I mentioned you were more than poor.

Only you know it was just being inept or being biased.  If the first : do something about it and let the PGMOL do something about it. If the latter: shame on you. And you are starting to get a bit of history on those things I’m afraid to say.

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The books…

The sites…

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186 comments to Was it just inept or… no it can’t be…? Time wasting out of all control

  • avatar ClockEndRider

    Well done Walter. Other questions are: why was only 1 minute added in the first half when they had already been wasting significant amounts of time ? Surely not because

  • avatar ClockEndRider

    Sorry, to complete the piece…
    Because at the end of the first half adding time can only really punish the team doing the time wasting, whereas in the second half the team likely to concede and therefore usually time wasting will get the benefit of additional time to Scott an equaliser.
    Why was the no card for time wasting for Traore, an abject excuse for a footballer if ever there was one, for being injured, running off the pitch then coming back on only to fall down and require assistance, on pitch of course, thus further slowing the game down surely a blatant example of gamesmanship.
    Why do tv cameras choose to give us shots of very ugly men who look like they’re doing a second rate impression of Mrs Doubtfire (that’s you, Hughes) when the ball has gone out, making it impossible to see know much time is being wasted by the team in question?
    It’s time this petty cheating was drummed out. Unless of course, certain referees don’t want it drummed out. And why on earth could that be?

  • avatar Gouresh

    the ref was shocking!!! at one point i thought that he forgot to get his cards…..except for us though. bloody ^%(%£££$%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    thank god for Arteta!!!

  • avatar Adam

    Absolutely correct Walter. It was QPR who wasted the time yet they got the potential advantage of it at the end. The free kicks were ridiculous and QPR should have been down to 10 men anyway, even before they were. I lost count of the amount of QPR players sucking time out if the game being injured. Traore was supposedly fouled and ended up off the pitch before coming on and then going down so the trainers had to be bought on to escort him back off the pitch, thereby eating up even more time. It really was a shocking display b the referee. Totally incompetent.

  • avatar nicky

    @Clockendrider,
    Can’t quite understand your first para.
    If a team is (say) 3 nil up in the first half and does a bit of laid-back timewasting in order to protect their lead, how would this punish them?

  • avatar bjtgooner

    Good article Walter, I totally agree with your comments. It looked as if QPR were under orders from the beginning of the match to waste as much time as possible.

    I wonder if the presence of Tony Fernandes had any influence on the ref – maybe not as he already has a shocking history.

    The yellow to Giroud for a perfectly good tackle was crazy, especially as the ref had let a bad tackle go unpunished at the other end seconds earlier. Traore’s playacting deserved a yellow (maybe also an acadamey award) – but probably played a part in Giroud getting the unjustified yellow.

    Sparky’s post match comment that it was Vermaelen’s rolling about that got his thug M’bia sent off shows what a twisted person Sparky is – no comment about Traore and a lie about Vermaelen.

    After a fairly horrible week for the club lets rejoice in a deserved win over a deliberately disruptive QPR.

  • avatar Roughchops

    Wall encroachment. When the wall is at 10 metres get one Arsenal player to stand at end of wall and NOT MOVE. When wall starts advancing that player then makes every effort to show the short sighted one what has happened. Job done.

  • I think the main reason the the offside could be dubious is because it is unclear weather the initial save from girouds header was then knocked back in to arteta by Ramsey or the QPR defender, and if it was the defender it couldnt be offside right?

    Anyway still a pretty worrying performance, Ramsey needs to benched. there is no balance at the moment , maybe the bould influence is tampering with the fluency of the team? but we do have the BEst defense in the league.

    I agree with the way arsenal did business, but it seems like its become more and more insane!! SElling better and better players and replacing them with worse and worse. it dawned on me when i saw wilshere on MOTD saying its a new team, “last time i played i was playing with fabregas and nasri” and i was thinking yeah and van persie cliche and song. How on earth was wenger happy to sell song, a player so long in development, and for 15 mil? whats the sense? oh yeah Diaby!! taking that kind of risk on a player like diaby is bordering on negligence no?

    I love this arsenal team but it just seems like if we had our mentality but were prepared to pay OCCASIONALLY over 20 mil for a player we would be far better off commercially and footballing wise, we would have mata and hazard two players we scouted for years but we wouldnt spend another 5 or 7 mil so we lost them to a team who were only aware of him probably for arsenal.

    What is of no doubt is that wenger doesnt like buying players that are ready mades, not even if they are young it seems anymore. and also i hate to say it, but there is not enough quality in this team , and that us the first time i really have said that. Song was quality if flawed and VP was the best in the world, i dont think we can really play our way with giroud up front and diaby is a liability injury wise,
    Does noone see a hypocrisy in selling players for big sums, but never ever ever ever even dreaming of paying even once a similar amount for our own team , for our own fans, its become absurd now. .Will FPP save us??, will the spainish clubs really collapse and there players all flock to us for the plane fare and a tenner a game? because it seems thats what we are waiting for, ,they must have a plan, wenger must want to win again, he knows a great player, and we could spend money on some of the players he likes, why dont we? what the hell are we so scared of?

  • avatar Andre Kelley

    @Walter, there was a situation in 48th minute when Jack Wilshere got a nasty stamp on his foot from Granero. The video replay showed referee Taylor couldn’t see it, because he was facing the QPR goal and had his back turned to the actual play. Seems to me like very suspect positioning from the ref, but I would like to hear your opinion.

  • avatar Stg

    I would like to know why time waisting is not highlighted more by sky. They pay a shed load of money for football and with an average playing time of 64 mins per game surly they like the fans are not getting value for money.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Andy, will have a look on that. Was that the incident when Jack needed treatment afterwards? If the ref was standing with his back to it…I would be speechless

  • avatar JOEL

    Clutching at straws I’m afraid!Some might say that for the most part the Arsenal team were far more guilty of time-wasting.Wasting the first hour of the match-where once again they lacked a cutting edge,were largely bereft of ideas and struggled to breakdown a side without a single win in the League this year-who have leaked an average of two goals a game.It was great to see both Wilshire and Sagna back but this side lacks balance and contains players who should not be even considerered worthy of an Arsenal shirt.The Manager is untouchable but rests on his past achievements.Time catches up with us all eventually!

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Agree with everything in here. some really strange decisions, we got nothing for the first 60 mins or so…and not for the first time have I seen that. Strange how amongst some sections of Arsenal supporters, even mentioning a poor ref is taboo – guess that gives them a clear path to blame Wenger PHW Stan Ivan Denilson Almunia et al for all our ills.
    Things changed towards the end of the game, but that ref made it very difficult for us to get into the game. Think we have history with him as well.

  • avatar ClockEndRider

    Nicky,
    The point is, if the score at half time is level and a team, as QPR did yesterday, wastes an inordinate amount of time in the first half, not adding it on to the half lets them get away with it. If the same happens in the second half, almost always a significant amount of time is added. Hence, the time wasting team tends to be given an advantage in both halves on the assumption that they fall behind in the second, which often seems to happen as teams tire and are increasingly pressed back. The fact that referees serially seem either not to be aware of this or at any rate do nothing about it is, at best, inept.

  • avatar Stg

    Does anybody know where I can get the time in play info for matches(free).

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Mandy Dodd, nail – head – bang ;-)

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    We know those “some” Joel.

  • avatar Shard

    I’m sorry.. A little off topic.. But watching Chelsea v ManU and my question is.. How long do we have to put up with this shit? We pay to watch a fixed league.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Shard

    Agreed. Clattenberg has just blotted his copybook.

  • avatar Mahdain

    Clattenburg has learned from his suspension then… so disappointed in him. Of all the refs i didnt expect this from him…well done Fergie you got your way with refs once again

  • avatar Arun

    Clattenberg
    You have made amendments for your performance last season. Looking forward for more favors from you.
    Thanks
    Fergie

  • avatar bjtgooner

    Red Nose and the PGMOL are really pulling the stops out to achieve Fergie XX at all costs – fair play – forget it!

  • avatar Mahdain

    Im sure he must have been given a warning before the match that went like this
    Riley: Hello Mark i got an assignment for you
    Clattenburg: Im listening
    Riley: I need you to ref Chelsea vs Man united
    Clattenurg: *taken back a bit* Really? Has master Fergie forgiven me for not being the ref in that 6-1 demolition match? Does he think 37 games is enough punishment? Does that mean i`ll be getting big games again?
    Riley: Depends on what you do in the match. Do you want to ref united games and plenty of big games?
    Clattenburg: oh yes of course
    Riley: Then i suggest you confer with Howard when you leave. He`ll tell you what to do
    Clattenburg: Ok sir
    Riley: Off you go then. *picks up phone and dials as soon as Clattenburg shuts the door* Hello master? It`s done
    Fergie: GOOD

  • avatar robl

    Lets hope Mr Abramovich uses some of his mate Vladimirs contacts to expose them….

  • avatar Shard

    So now you know what RVP meant when he thought ManU were more ambitious than Arsenal. He can get away with intentionally elbowing people in the head (The legal precedent for the Cabaye case was set when Rooney elbowed a Wigan player some time ago), and he gets to play against 9 men while he has 13 others backing him up. Must be nice to be a ManU player, even if you have to live in that hell hole and service Whiskeybreath from time to time.

  • avatar Shard

    robl

    No chance of that. Do you think Chelsea won the CL through anything other than similar means?

  • avatar Shard

    What odds can I get on Dean, Dowd or Webb being the referee next week?

  • avatar Mahdain

    @Shard its going to be Webb. He is nailed for it

  • avatar Arun

    Let’s see how the ###### up media represents this robbery.
    I noticed an interesting thing in the Daily Mail recently. For Arsenal match reports, they put up a story covering match incidents just after the match and after a few hours, under the same heading & URL, they put up a very negative report barely mentioning any incident from the match.
    It’s quite disgusting to see a media newspaper doing such nonsense things, not surprising though.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Will wait for the ref review….but that Chelsea Utd game….what can be said? Could this be the game that finally blows it open for all to see? As has been pointed out, Chelsea have freinds in all sorts of places, not sure they will take this lying down in the way maybe we have been forced to. RVP must wonder what has happened, going between the two extremes of ref assistance. Looks like they will do all they can to give Fergie number 20 this season….even though they are not actually that good. one positive note, Fergie rules it a 3 horse race not including us, is that code for refs to go for who he considers bigger fish than us?
    The Utd game – it will be Webb as it usually is….Dean and Dowd to assist with Probert no 4? If that can happen…would not rule it out….then back with Dean for the Spuds game

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Shard, I think Chelsea won the CL because they had a good enough team to do so. You could also argue they were robbed a few years ago in a tie against Barca but we’ll conveniently forget that. They also won the CL because they were brave enough to ditch a manager who was taking them nowhere. Now there’s a thought……….

  • avatar Mahdain

    @Rupert cook Zzzzz you are boring us with that sewer mantra. Go away

  • avatar bjtgooner

    It has been quite amusing over the last week or so the way one AAA sewer rat after another has appeared on this site trying to infect the sounder fans with warped thinking. Its a bit like rotational fouling. As each one makes a fool of himself and departs another is sent to replace him. Time for rupert to cook off!

  • avatar rupert cook

    Warped thinking? Really. The only warped thinking comes from AFC. Sell your best players every season and replace them with inferior ones. That’s self-sustainability, of course it won’t actually move the club forward. I wonder if Gazidis has actually wondered why loads of kids are walking around with Chelsea shirts on. Could it be because they win trophies virtually every year? Those kids want to support winners, they talk about Hazard, Mata and Oscar, not about Gervinho or Giroud. And those kids are the season ticket holders of the future. That’s self-sustainability.

  • avatar Shard

    rupert cook

    Benfica’s president thought otherwise.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4240780/Chelsea-v-Benfica-referee-blasted-by-Benfica-president-Luis-Felipe-Vieira.html

    And sure. Chelsea were robbed against Barca a few years ago. (They also robbed Barca once at the bridge when Mourinho was there) And we were robbed against Barca too (probably twice if you include the offside goals of 2006) but let’s conveniently forget that.

    Who was shafted when, was not the issue I was bringing up. Anyone being cheated is contrary to what sport should be about. Like Chelsea were today. I have no sympathy for them as a club and a team. But what happened today was a travesty and it affects all who want to see a game remain a fair contest decided by the players according to the rules of the game, rather than the all too obvious machinations and leanings of the referees.

  • avatar Shard

    rupert cook

    Oh so you’re one of those.. Any talk of unfairness, fixing and corruption in football and you’re usual response is Arsenal are shit? Fine.. I concede Arsenal are shit and going nowhere and ManU and Chelsea are the best teams around. Oh and City. Cos they spend all that money right. Fine.. Happy? Now campaign with us for a level playing field so we can all finally find out just how shit Arsenal are and how good ManU is.

  • avatar rupert cook

    There will be no level playing field. Do you think FFP will make a difference? Is that what the club is pinning all its hopes on? Are Chelsea, Barca, Real Madrid going to be thrown out of the CL? It’s rumoured Chelsea are going to bid 48 million for Falcao. I can see that FFP is really changing their outlook. I despise these men who throw money at clubs, especially Abramovich who has exploited his own people but nothing will stop these types. But thank you for responding without hurling an imprecation or two.

  • avatar Limpar

    Financial fairplay is already making a difference, I have seen the evidence over the last few transfer windows with the exeption of 1 or 2 teams.
    The only way it will work is if the majority of the teams stick to it, rather than become weak minded like you seem to be Rupert, by throwing in the towel by spending a huge wedge of sugar daddy money that may or may not guarantee ‘success’ Then we we can stroke ourselves in self satisfaction & sleep well at night rather than be bothered by our insecurities & so worried after losing a couple of games.

  • avatar Shard

    FFP?? Now where the hell did FFP come from? You either are not interested in what the talk is about, or are stupid, or intentionally want to divert the ‘debate’ to suit your agenda. Which shockingly, can be easily summarised as… “Arsenal are shit”.
    And you’re welcome.

    But since you brought up FFP, is it your suggestion that ARsenal should not be self sustainable? regardless of how the authorities are going to uphold the so called FFP.

  • avatar Limpar

    Ironically , rupert, Chelsea tried to sign Giroud but he chose to sign for Arsenal

  • avatar Limpar

    There’ll be plenty more contoversy in Man U’s favour without doubt. Next week if required, why would the pattern suddenly change? How much eveidence do people need? Seems the majority are easily led / duped.
    I also anticipate a lot of things going against Chelsea this season, they look too much of a threat to the preferred order.
    Don’t take my word for it, just watch and see…

  • avatar Shard

    and rupert

    You’re cynicism about FFP suggests that you believe UEFA to be corrupt or toothless. I think you’ll say the same about FIFA, and if pressed, the same about the FA..

    Question.. If all these bodies are corrupt and/or toothless in the face of maneouverings of certain clubs, then pray tell me, what do you think preserves the integrity of the process of appointing and assessing referees?

  • avatar Adam

    Rupert, you are right those kids are the future, I have no disagreement there. However we Arsenal fans can be assured that our club will be competitive in the future and that future is not dependent on one man or his business interests. What Chelsea is actually teaching these kids is a lesson in financial power not financial sustainability. Chelsea football club as well as the other oilers do not have the long term interests of football at heart in actual fact they are very damaging for the sport. They have artificially inflated players wages and transfer fees plus aided in attracting a lot of unscrupulous characters in to modern football chasing the money.
    You will not change peoples opinions on this particular web-site and on these subjects. However I will challenge your theories in the hope of changing your opinions.
    Failing that I can point you in the direction of a shop where you can purchase yourself a trophy.

  • avatar Stevie E

    Rupert cook
    So, you seem to have all the answers, what do you suggest Arsenal do (I assume you have some experience of running a multinational corporation or at least a football club at some level)? You purport to detest clubs becoming a rich mans plaything, but seem happy for Arsenal to go down that road just to win a trophy. What makes you think it will make any difference? QPR are owned by billionaires but are rooted to the bottom of the league, even after many millions have been spent on the team. I don’t want Arsenal to sell out or get themselves embroilled in mountains of debt to try to compete. Look, if all you want to do is to support a team that wins trophies, maybe you should go support someone else because you have predicated nothing for us for the next 10 years. Save yourself a lot of heartache and go and join the rest of the plastic fans with Mata or Hazard or whoever on the back of their shirt. But, please, just leave the rest of us alone who have faith in the club, manager and players to to the right thing for AFC, because your arguments are very boring.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    Judging by the comments it looks like a fat Russian or one of his agents has determined the curriculum for sewer rat indoctrination.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Sort of agree with you Limpar, though I am not sure Chelsea are actually as good as they have looked…at times at the start of the season. But you are correct, any threat to Utd…as you say, worth watching how they get on. I think City will be the team to catch in the EPL this year, especially with their impending exit from the CL

  • avatar Mahdain

    @bjtgooner exactly. Its the same shit each and everyone of them comes up with. You would think its the same person

  • avatar Limpar

    I’m not sure Mandy, I thought they were real class today and could have won 4-2 with a level playing field. Maybe even won after being down to 10 men. But what happened yet again ( like last year with Webbs penalties) was a disgrace.
    If Torres dived and even though fouled deserved to be sent off as he ‘ could have gone on ‘ was this not the same for A Young for with the other red card? Rooney & young made several dives in the game before Torres got punished

  • avatar rupert cook

    I wonder how long you’ll be happy with a club that does nothing but finish fourth season after season and win nothing, five more years, ten years? Arsenal are not Stoke or even Everton, they are meant to be a club capable of winning trophies. That’s why the club built a huge stadium. But it seems its ambition exhausted itself after that.

  • avatar Stuart

    ha ha, its about following the team for the real fans, the plastics are only in it for the glory.

  • avatar rupert cook

    Very funny. I’ve supported Arsenal for forty years. I must be made of some particularly hard plastic.

    I’ve endured the ineptitude of the mid seventies and the rather hapless teams of the eighties. Despite the poverty of the current side I imagine I’ll still be supporting Arsenal, trophies or not.

  • avatar Adam

    Rupert, Since the premiership started back in 1992 only these teams (I think)have finished in the top 4. Norwich, Villa, Blackburn, Newcastle, Everton, Spurs, Leeds and Nottingham forest as well as the big 5. In twenty years of league football just how competitive has the premiership been? Out of the 60 trophies that could be won over that 20 year period (FA cup, League cup, Prem) How many different teams have won trophies? Just how competitive do you actually think football in England is?
    You are right, We are not stoke, we live within our means and not of off a betting companies generosity.

  • avatar Limpar

    Everton as a club had the same potential as arsenal 15 years ago. Who’s to blame for the gap between the two teams potential now?

  • avatar Stuart

    So do you enjoy watching & supporting your team or are you only interested in trophies?

  • avatar Stuart

    Perhaps Arsenal shouldn’t have gone for the stadium and state of the art training ground and instead should have just blown the lot on players and contracts in the hope we might be in Liverpools shoes right now

  • avatar Mahdain

    Why are you guys even bothering with our latest sewer resident? its utterly useless and pointless arguing with them. Should have learned from our dear friend Rhys Jaggar speaking of whom is it only me or is Doublegooner doing his best to be just as pathetic as Rhys was?

  • avatar rupert cook

    I’m not sure Everton had the same potential fifteen years ago, maybe twenty-five years ago. Everton actually look a decent side this year. I’d rather have Jelavic than Giroud as a striker.

    @Adam English football was hardly competitive in the eighties. Everton and Liverpool won the major trophies.

    We are about the fifth richest team in the world. A conservative estimate of money available to spend is 50 million. Now why aren’t we spending that?

  • avatar Stuart

    What can we do with £50 Million? It’s not actually that much any more.

    Why should we not have a safety net? Surely to not have one is completely irresponsible.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Stuart, currently the football we play is lethargic and predictable. What happened to Wenger? He used to want to see speed and energy. Now we pass and keep possession without any cutting edge. It was a struggle to beat QPR.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Mahdain, thanks for your contribution. I’m glad you used your full intelligence to engage in debate.

  • avatar Stuart

    WTF?? What has that got to do with the discussion of spending £50 Million?

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Mahdain

    You are quite right, rupert the plastic sewer rat is not worth engaging in serious debate, he only wants to disrupt. I don’t think it is Rhys or double talking Doublegooner – there are some differences in phraseology – but he comes from the same sewer.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Stuart, I don’t know, what we could do with 50 million? Maybe buy a decent gk, we haven’t had one since Lehman and a proper striker.

  • avatar Limpar

    We became the fith richest team in the world through exeptional management & planning on & off the pitch since Arsene Wenger took over (At that point we were a LOT further down the list). Not by panic buying or selling out to a fat greedy millionair who has no understanding or care of what Arsenal fc stands for. Giroud / Jelavic thats a pointless argument, although I’m sure you’d have been really happy during pre-season if Jelavic was our prime transfer target.BTW the transfer window is closed so nobody is spending anyones 50 60 or 70 million until January, so thats another pointless debate.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @bjtgooner, disrupt what? The fantasy land you reside in maybe? I’d love for you to say something that didn’t involve an insult but if that’s beyond you, feel free to unleash the invectives.

  • avatar Stuart

    OK, who? Name me a GK and Striker who we could get for £50 Million (inc salary for the duration of their contract.)

  • avatar Limpar

    ‘ Rupert cook.. have you noticed all the top sides in europ are finding it difficult against the lesser teams this wknd & in the champions league ? 2 or 3 wks ago it was a different story for us. As I said earlier : I think you are a bit weak & prone to over-react

  • avatar Adam

    Rupert.
    It has never been Arsenal’s way. If you compare our spending with the lower leagues you could say we waste money. There is a lot changing in football and I think Arsenal are just waiting to see what happens. If these latest controls by Uefa (who are not a governing body, they just run competitions) and FIFA (who are a governing body) do not work then we may see our own government or the EU get involved and pass specific legislation to govern the sport.
    As for the Eighties teams tend to go through cycles. What is happening now is teams have the financial clout to circumvent these cycles or get into dept trying.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Limpar, yes and we’re all pleased about the sensible management but there’s no sense in selling your best players and then buying inferior ones and expecting to achieve more. Sell RVP for 24 million. Is that clever business? Because if we’re honest he’s the one reason we made the CL cut. And if we don’t make it this year how much money will we lose? About twice as much. It’s seems rather a strange way of being sustainable.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @ plastic rupert

    When you come onto this site to run down the manager, the team and hence the standing of the club and, by doing so deliberately insult the readers of this site – why should you in turn not be similarly treated.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Stuart, Jelavic for a start. He cost Everton about three million. He was a lot cheaper than Giroud. Spurs have three decent gks. We have the Pole who is I think inferior to Cudicini and Lloris. See I’m being frugal with the money.

  • avatar Limpar

    The fact is we are fifth in the league after probably the toughest start out of the big sides, & an injury hangover which is now starting to resolve. We have the best defense in the league with our 3rd choice goalkeeper , 2nd chice right back & center backs still improving, attack is no where near as good as it could be, and still have jack W returning, Rosicky, Diaby , 1st & second choice keepers , Sagna Frimpong. Plus your so called 0 million for the January window if the right player becomes available. We are 2nd in the champions league group with many points to play for. Calm down, take a valium. We could be liverpool or any of the mutlitude of teams in a worse postion than us

  • avatar Stuart

    Maybe we could have entered a bidding war for Torres?

    Chelsea paid £51.5 Million
    We could have said £53 Mil
    They would have said £55 Mil
    We could have said £60 Mil,
    They would have said OK, £65 Mil

    We then also have to compete with the wages, Torres earns £10.4 Million per year on a 5 year contract, that’s another £52 Million, that’s assuming the wages wouldn’t have gone up in order to sign him.

    We will never win the spending war so it will never be the solution.

  • avatar dan

    @Rupert

    RvP was holding us at ransom, 10 mil signing on fee and £200.000 a week contract for 4-5 yrs.

  • avatar Limpar

    so called 50 million

  • avatar Stuart

    That’s a good one, I’m really laughing now. Cudicini, Lloris and Jelavic?? Did you read what you typed before hitting send?

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Adam, we certainly do waste money. For instance what was the point of buying Park? The guy was virtually invisible. That money could have been given to RVP as an incentive to stay. Why are we paying Gazidis a huge bonus and pay rise? What does the guy actually do? Except help sell our players to the club he supports, City?

    Why are players of such poor quality still at Arsenal, players like Chamakh and Squillaci? Because they’re on huge wages and we can’t shift them because of that.

  • avatar Limpar

    Keeping v Persie against his will , so underperforming as aresult & upsetting the camp, then losing him for free is a better option ?? Honestly its a waste of energy reasonng with someone who is basically unreasonable. If you cant see that , including the fact that if it were the case you would be whining about it even more loudly that you are now, there is little point in wasting time with you Rupert

  • avatar rupert cook

    Well Stuart, Cudicini a better gk than Mannone or Flapianski. Or are you blind? As for Jelavic he’s exactly the same price as Park who has been invisible and yet far more useful.

  • avatar rupert cook

    Yes selling RVP to Manu was a genius move. The best striker in the league goes to one of our main rivals. Has to be the dumbest thing we’ve done since selling Stapleton.

  • avatar dan

    @Rupert

    All clubs waste money, its the risk of the trade.

    BUT

    Some waste more money than other!!!

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Limpar, but what you don’t understand is that RVP was the reason we got CL football. We have now lost him and our chances of finishing fourth are slimmer. So effectively keeping him might have saved us a fortune even if he was to go on a free because if we don’t get CL football we lose more than double what we got for him.

  • avatar Limpar

    Let it go Rupert, lifes too short. Other wise well be here debating every discrepency till next week. Arsenal will do well, we have done amazingly well, we are doing amazingly well considering what we compete against. Take another injection & enjoy where you are coz its a long way down.

  • avatar Stuart

    I agree he has been more useful than Park but you initially compared him to Giroud.

    You keep changing your argument to suit, it’s pointless discussing with you really.

    WRT selling Van Persie, yes he was brilliant but anyone can see that RVP leaving has actually resulted in a better team unity (or are you blind?), just a shame the players don’t seem motivated but that has nothing to do with RVP leaving.

  • avatar Persian gunner

    I really like this discussion!

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Stuart, you’ve absolutely no idea whether the team is not motivated because RVP left. Pure supposition. We also sold Song as well. I wonder what it’s like to be in a team that sells its better players every year? That might not be very motivating.

    Yes I did compare Jelavic to Giroud because I happen to think he’s more effective. I also think Jelavic is more effective than Chamakh who is utter rubbish. But happily picking up 50,000 a week for being inept. And people think the club is well run financially.

  • avatar Adam

    Rupert, I think Wenger snapping up Park was more of a dig at Lille for not doing business with us over Hazard so we nicked their target. Chamakh was a free transfer and the player wanted to come to Arsenal and in all honesty no thought it would turn out like this. Squillaci was a weird one for me, he just can’t do it in England the game is too quick for him.
    Gazidis was instrumental in the set up of the MLS and they have a fairly level playing field out there. So Arsenal are again looking to the future. As for his pay rise we don’t know what deals he has brokered for us recently in terms of sponsorships that are due to expire you know how secretive Arsenal can be.
    You have to look at the whole picture and not just a small part of it. Arsenal are set up to compete, we have been the most competitive team in England of all time, we are always there or there abouts. Keep the faith fella.

  • avatar Stuart

    Rupert, yes, what I actually meant to write was we don’t know if that has affected motivation.

    So compare him to Giroud for the sake of your argument and then stick to it. You’re chopping and changing your facts which is boring & tedious.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Adam, thank you for your measured response. I feel Wenger is a busted flush. I just don’t see how he has wasted money on average players like Squillaci, Park (and if it is for the reason you suggest, isn’t that a bit childish for a man of his age?), Gervinho and Santos. There are others too. And when he comes out with statements like, “we only buy top quality players”, you have to question his sanity. Buy them ,no, sell them ,yes.

    I’m afraid I can’t see English football ever being like the MLS set up. Abramovich and his ilk are here to stay and they will keep spending. I think Gazidis is a fish out of water and I don’t trust Kroenke at all.

    I have no problem with people having different opinions and arguing passionately in defence of them. After all we all believe we are right. And sometimes we can admit we’re wrong too. And if people want to hurl abuse let them. They only make themselves look foolish.

    I

  • avatar Stuart

    BTW, if we had Chamakh on a £10K per week contract and then he turned out to be a 40 goal a season striker and got offered more money to go elsewhere, you would say that is bad management by not paying him enough in the first place so that his head wasn’t turned.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Stuart, I’m debating with about four different people. I do apologize if I lose the thread sometimes but I think I rectified my mistake. I don’t think I’m changing my opinions at all.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Stuart, but Chamakh was dreadful. Seriously Wenger has to stop buying average players from the French league. In the last few years I reckon we’ve bought one world class player, Cazorla.

  • avatar Adam

    You know Rupert sometimes I look at the signings Arsene has made and it not so much as wow look what shiny new toy we just got. It’s more of a target for the youngsters to get past. Just some food for thought.
    But please remember we went after Hazard, Mata, Silva and others. Arsenal cannot get their top targets because of the likes of Chelsea and City.
    I personally would have liked Cazorla’s team mate Isco to arrive. But then I also believe that any team that goes in to the market for a player is openly stating that it’s youngsters are not up to the job so it highlights the clubs failings in training its playing staff.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Rupert,
    the moment you called Fabianski “flapianski” I now can know for sure that you are not an Arsenal SUPPORTER!

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Good points Adam. We are going to have to be a bit more courageous with our spending. Arsenal can afford the odd 25 million pound player. Having said that I’m not sure I’d trust Wenger to buy the right one. We can’t spend like a mid table team and expect to win the league. And selling our best players every season, well sooner or later you run out of saleable assets.

    I wonder how many of you would be so happy with our financial model if Wilshire was sold at the end of the season? He looks like the one real youthful talent we have.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Walter, better sell all my Arsenal books then. Oh by the way feel free to play around with my name and insult me, I don’t mind. Good lord, if you can’t make fun of a rather inept gk for worry of being called a non Arsenal supporter we may as well all have our sense of humour removed.

  • avatar Adam

    Rupert. Throwing money at other clubs is not the answer. we offer 10 million chelsea offer 25 million. we cannot compete with that. It has to be done under the radar. There are other issues at work as well, Im sure there are agents out there that Arsenal refuse to do business with and if you had read a few articles on here about that you may understand that it is not always about getting just the selling club to agree a discret sale but also the players agent has to be discret and not offer his client around once Wenger is interested.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Walter

    Correct, rupert the rat is no supporter – that was obvious long ago. He reminds me a little of Rhyle, the difference being that Rhyle was intelligent, but rupert like Rhyle has only one purpose – to disrupt. He does however have more obvious troll characteristics than Rhyle.

    Obviously rupert has not read his alleged Arsenal books! But, he is not worth wasting time on.

  • avatar rupert cook

    Well we managed to get Cazorla for 15 million and he’s good enough to play for Chelsea. Not every player we go for is going to be snapped up by City or Chelsea. It appeared we could have had Mata if we’d paid a bit more but we backed down. And that was when we were a more attractive proposition but since then Chelsea have won the CL and now we’re not such a great prospect, having lost RVP and Song.

    I’m not saying buying good players is easy but isn’t that what we pay Gazidis to do? To broker deals or does someone else do it? It seems we can afford to pay men in suits good money but not men in a kit.

  • avatar Adam

    bjtgooner, You have to try and change the opinion of people who some times cannot see the positives, I some times think we as Arsenal fans have been spoilt in to thinking we deserve to be winners.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @bjtgooner, keep it up, fling the mud. How dare anyone think differently than you? You do get some vitriolic types on here, you wonder if they were brought up in North Korea such is their hostility to a different opinion.

    I’d love to see the positives Adam but the team has steadily got worse since 2006.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Rupert,
    just look up the meaning of the word “supporter”
    In will not be disrespectful to any current Arsenal player. Because I support the players. Once gone you can call them what you want but as long as an Arsenal player is an Arsenal player I will support them.
    If you think Fabianski is not good enough as a second choice keeper: fine. You are entitled to have that opinion.
    But how can it be in any way helpful for him or and even more importantly for Arsenal to start the name calling of our own players?
    If you can prove me that making a fool of our own players helps them fine. But I really doubt it does. Let me say I am rather sure that it can only be harmful for the players.

    So call yourself what you want but please don’t pretend to be a supporter of Arsenal.

  • avatar Adam

    Rupert, The reasons behind us not signing these players are just speculation. We don’t know the real reasons. But is sackings and upheaval a way forward?

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Adam, if Wenger was managing a company his performance over the last seven years would almost definitely have seen him sacked. No top club would have a manager who’s delivered no trophies in that time. And we have upheaval every season as major players leave. I agree we don’t know the reasons why we haven’t signed these players. But let’s not pretend the club is poverty-stricken.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Walter, do you seriously think Fabianski (for fear of causing the delicate flower injurious harm and out of deference to your point of view I shall call him by his given name) is going to be devastated by what a supporter, if I may beg your kindness to call myself such, calls him? Is he man or mouse?

    And do you seriously think he reads this blog?

  • avatar rupert cook

    And Walter, old sunbeam, I could have been greatly offended by you suggesting I’m not a supporter but, by the ghost of Herbert Chapman, I shall rise above it.

  • avatar Adam

    Rupert, As stated before I believe Arsenal to be waiting to see how FFP turns out as well as the new rules governing transfers. Wenger in my opinion would not have been sacked if in another field, On the contrary he would have been rewarded handsomely.

  • avatar rupert cook

    Well Adam we have to disagree on that one. We may well be waiting to see how FFP turns out but I think that’ll prove to be a dud hope. Wilshire will probably be at Chelsea or City by 2015.

    By then Arsenal fans may finally have had enough.

  • avatar Adam

    Then were doomed i say doomed.
    Keep the faith brother.

  • avatar rupert cook

    Adam, thanks for the pleasant banter. Keep an open mind or else!

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Adam

    I agree that persuasion/debate is better than conflict. I will watch your efforts with interest, I hope you are successful but I fear you are flogging a dead rat, sorry, horse with that one.

    @rupert

    Your own words identify what you are.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Rupert,
    so you are easily offended by me suggesting you are not a supporter. yet you don’t see a problem with insulting an Arsenal player?
    And it doesn’t matter if he reads it or not. I respect the Arsenal players. As a real supporter does. That is how I feel about it.

  • avatar rupert cook

    bjtgooner, and what am I pray tell?

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Back on the subject of the article: REFEREES!

    Hey my big pal Mike Riley. What did you say again? 99% of the offside decisions were correct? Did you really say that?

    I bet you will feel like a real fool by now. Or is it just one of those temporary blips?

  • avatar Adam

    Walter, How is it going with that link i gave a while ago. I have found some more PDF files that you may find interesting.
    And i thought the PFAs study said it was more like 80% correct decisions?

  • avatar rupert cook

    @ Walter. steady on mate or I’ll have to subject your mouth to a good wash out with a bar of soap.

    I’m not offended by anything. I learned to be immune to insults when I had severe acne for ten years. A few unkind words every day mean nothing and only make those using them look inadequate.

    Actually you could use that bjtgooner, say maybe that the acne reflected my hideous soul.

  • avatar Ivans bonus

    Adam,so buying a player to piss off another club is good business is it?Good management? Grown up adult behaviour? BS,just admit Wenger bought yet another dud from France where Arsenal are single handedly propping up the french League by buying all their dross for ridiculous money which filters through the league.To all those making disparaging remarks about Liverpool,their future is bright.Their young players are far superior to those at Arsenal,as anyone who has watched both Arsenal and Pool in the Next Gen series will testify.Their commercial deals are good,and instead of building a new staduim they are expanding Anfield to bring in the same matchday revenue as the Emirates,but at a fraction of the cost.It will be paid off before the Emirates and they haven’t even started building it yet.Arsenal and Liverpool will soon be swapping places.But hey,as long as Wenger is manager,because no other manager in the world is capable of managing Arsenal,and as long as the owner is making a profit,who cares?Tell me,what glorious memories have YOU got of 2006 to 2012,because on the pitch the only memories i have is watching the best players perform and six months later be sold.

  • avatar rupert cook

    Oh yes refs. If it wasn’t for those pesky refs Arsenal would have won three CLs, two league titles and probably squeezed into an FA Cup final.

    Prove me wrong.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Ivan’s Bonus, you have some salient points there but I fear you’ll bring down the wrath of Walter and he’ll declare you’re not a supporter for daring to question the wisdom of Wenger and all who sail in him.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @rupert

    Quite simple – you pretend to be a supporter so that your criticism of the manager and team appears to be the valid criticism of a concerned supporter – but the vicious and destructive way you have attacked those who are not posting here to defend themselves (i.e. manager/team members) categorizes you clearly as a non-supporter.

    I could add character deficiencies like arrogant, egotistic and possibly cowardly, but non-supporter should be sufficient.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    It doesn’t matter how good you can take insults, Rupert. You cannot stand in another person his place.

    And the longer I read the comments of Rupert the more I recognise an old friend. He also started with hinting at washing my mouth with soap. And ended up with threatening to smash a baseball bat against my skull….

  • avatar rupert cook

    bjtgooner, good heavens, you think I’m vicious and destructive. Have you ever been to a football match? Have you ever been in the centre of London on a saturday night?

    Some of you on here are the most pompous and humourless characters I’ve ever encountered. I thought the point of blogs was to host different opinions and enjoy lively debate.

    bjt, you’ve happily insulted me since my first post. Hardly the way to behave in a civilized society. And yet I’m vicious and destructive. I hope the irony isn’t lost on you bjt.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @rupert

    Get your facts right – I certainly have not been humorless! If you insult our players and/or manager you are fair game – so if you can’t take what you dish out slink back to the AAA sewer!

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Walter, oops sorry Walter, I wouldn’t really wash your mouth out. It was just a joke.

    I have absolutely no time for people who threaten others with violence Walter. I think that’s despicable. We may have our disagreements but I don’t condone violence. And please don’t make rash judgments about people and assume they are of a violent nature. I assure you I’m not and would never wish you or any poster on here any physical harm.

  • avatar rupert cook

    bjt, I actually don’t think you’re very funny. You see insulting people without cause isn’t humour, it’s just rude.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @rupert

    Insulting our players and manager is OK? Don’t be an ass!

  • avatar rupert cook

    I’ve said that I don’t think Wenger’s up to the job any more. Hardly an insult unless you live in Hello Kitty world. I said Chamakh was rubbish which I think is hard to refute. Meanwhile you’ve called me a rat and various other things.

    And I’ve been quite polite to you.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Rupert, that is exactly what he told me before wanting to trash my skull on a few occasions you know.

  • avatar rupert cook

    Walter, I do not condone violence. I like a bit of banter and I like to debate and I don’t even mind people disagreeing and hurling abuse at me. I’m not easily annoyed.

    I know you want the best for Arsenal. We all do. Some of us think things should be done differently and we believe we are right and we believe vehemently because our passion is no weaker than yours.

    You think the way Wenger does things is correct. I think differently. If you’re right that’s fine. As long as Arsenal do well I don’t care who’s right. In the meantime let’s celebrate the fact that we can have opposing opinions and accept them without resorting to threats of violence.

  • avatar Ivans bonus

    Adam,8.42,i suppose you don’t remember in the 90′s, when Arsenal were in danger of losing the back four,Fizman put 50 mill in [150 mill in todays money]That money was spent on increasing the wages of Seaman and the back four,bought Berkamp,Viera,Overmars and Petit,and gave Arsenal by far the highest wage bill in the league.Arsenal made Sol Campbell the highest player in the league,and had the highest wage bill in 2002.I suppose that wasn’t financial doping though,no sugardaddy money for Arsenal because they ALWAYS do things the right way.Can’t have been Arsenal who were one of the clubs who tried to screw the rest of the league over TV rights in 1988,nor Arsenal who were right behind the abolition of gate sharing, favouring the rich and powerful at the expense of others.Arsenal as a bastion of respectability,fighting the noble fight against footballs ills, is a recent invention.Mind you,some would say that the biggest outrage in football is clubs pricing out traditional fans who don’t happen to earn a fortune,you know fans who have ghastly jobs like driving buses,or who work in factories.Fans to whom a grand is a tenth of their income,even though they work over 40 hrs a week.Fans who are on minimum wage.Urghh how ghastly,we don’t want their sort anywhere near the club.Other clubs may want rich owners;Arsenal just wants rich fans.

  • avatar Adam

    IVAN. How did that ANDY CARROLL deal work out for Liverpool. You lot spent more on one player than the whole of division 2 spent last season. Id rather see a 3 million signing flop than a 35 million signing flop.
    I was told Liverpools biggest problem about extending Anfield was stopping the locals from nicking all the building materials.

  • avatar Adam

    You have got a problem with me fella. I re-read my comments to see how i could piss you off. Im baffled as to what you want from me. And as for your rantings– PROVE IT with documentation.

  • avatar Adam

    Ivan why are you banging on about your working week.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Walter

    To get back to refereeing before shut eye time, I understand there was some controversy today not just in the Chelsea match – can you advise which of today’s matches are covered by the ref reviewers?

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    bjtgooner: all of them. But will take a bit of time before we can publish them….

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Walter

    Thanks for that, look forward to reading them.

  • avatar duduspace

    @Rupert

    I do understand your requirements must be very high if you say that a manager who has consistently come 4th and above in a league of 20 clubs with the 5th largest wage spend and about the 6th largest combined spend is deserving of a sack.
    You must be some kinda genius who has come top of the class in every institution you attended.
    Pray Genius sir, what should happen to all the other managers in the league who finish below this manager?

  • avatar rupert cook

    Haven’t you noticed that many of them have got the sack? As long as you’re happy finishing fourth, or whatever place we need to qualify for the CL, for eternity and not win anything then that’s fine. I’d just like to see some signs of ambition under a manager who holds the unenviable record of going seven years without a trophy. No other Arsenal manager can claim that.

  • avatar Stuart

    Rupert Cook,

    We could have bid more for Mata but then I reckon we would have lost that bidding war, dont you??

  • avatar El Gringo

    And by the way, the Torres red card is one reason I get nervous about all the recent calls for retrospective bans for diving. In the current state of affairs, those bans will never be applied fairly, they’ll simply become another method for cheaters to cheat. The opposition will get banned a couple of games before going to Old Trafford, and the mancs will continue to do what they do with impunity.

  • avatar Stg

    A good debate with some intresting posts, not sure where to jump in at though as there seems to be lots of different debates within the one.
    Re L’poo:-yes they are now redeveloping Anfield but how much time and money have they spent on plans etc trying to convince the council on a new stadium, yes it will cost a fraction of the price but Arsenal could not do that at The Arsenal Stadium so moving was the only viable option.
    Players:-Yes Arsenal have brought some duds but every team does Veron at OT, Carroll & Bable at L’poo, Bentley at Spurs I could go on. It is not just Wenger who makes errors in the transfer market. The deal to take Hazard to Chelsea cost in the region of £80 million the Aguero deal to City £95 million in total. Yes The Arsenal did have a competitive wage bill back in the late 90′s early 00′s but that seems like it was unsubstainable with the introduction of Abramovich and his spending/wages at Chelsea. RVP as has been said wanted £10m to re-sign and around £200k per week yes great pay it. Then what do Arsenal pay Theo, would we of got Cazorla would Wilshere not of gone hay I want a bit of that, it’s a vicious circle and one that it seems Arsenal want to stay out of. Just back to RVP for a top world class strike which teams came in for him, who made bids for him? City did they actually make a bid? Juve with their £8m bid rising to £15m and Man U who somehow Arsenal convinced to pay £24m for.
    The Mata deal fell through due to 3rd person ownership as you may or may not know 3rd person ownership is banned in the PL so the deal included a buy out clause for the 3rd party Arsenal as I understand it refused to pay the extra £’s to do this.

    Do you sack a manager for not winning trophies or do you keep a manager who keeps you within touching distance of 2 then 3 clubs who have the spending/wages power of City, United & Chelsea. Arsenal are in a no win situation at this present time do the stick with what they have hoping the FFP rules in whatever guise they turn up in work or twist sack Wenger go for a Pep G manager and hope that he with the ££££”s he will want in new players etc will push higher up the table than the 3rd Arsenal reached last season. It’s a difficult question to answer and until it happens we have to trust the board/owner that his confidence in Wenger is correct.

  • avatar Sav from Australia

    Wow. A certain ‘rupert cook’ poster effectively derailed what should have been a discussion on referee ineptitude and/or bias, and focused all the blame on ‘those crap Arsenal players’.

    Lol. The sad thing is people like this ‘rupert cook’ play a role in leading the opinions many people who don’t know much about football. Sewer rate indeed. Sometimes you wish you could send an internet missile through the internetwork and it would fly out the computer and hit such people in the head.

    Good article Walter. Absolutely agree, I was really frustrated with Anthony Taylor. He did this earlier in the season against Arsenal as well, I think. Just goes to show that Arsenal have to be good enough to beat the referee and the player opposition before a league title is achieved.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Stuart, well we’ll never know just how much Chelsea were prepared to pay. The fact is that Chelsea at the time were not such an attractive prospect and perhaps they’d have backed down if we’d gone to 20 million. Now they’re extremely attractive having won the CL. Something we don’t have a squad capable of doing.

    Good balanced post Stg. I think you have to say that Wenger has had his day. There’s a stale feel at Arsenal. It’s not just that Wenger has bought some real duds and let’s be honest he’s not bought a great player for years. Cazorla is the only one. It’s also some of his tactics seem ill-thought out. Too many teams know how to play against Arsenal. Stifle Cazorla and we’re ineffective. It’s great to see Wilshire back because we need someone else besides Cazorla to pull the strings. Arteta is decent but is still a little inconsistent. Trouble is we had a proper striker last year and that saved us, this year we seem to have nothing upfront.

  • avatar stg

    Just to ask again does anybody know of a (free)web site that shows ‘ball in play’ times of EPL matches. I have looked but apart from a few articles in the Guardian it seems hard information to come by. I’m sure OPTA do it but I don’t think I can justify the cost to my wife lol

  • avatar Tasos

    @Rupert Cook

    “It’s not just that Wenger has bought some real duds and let’s be honest he’s not bought a great player for years”.

    Wrong.

    Arsene Wenger doesn’t buy great players, he makes them great, that’s his genius.

  • avatar walter

    Is it a coincidence that just on this day I get a let me call it “a rather abusive mail” on my mail address, from the person I referred to in my comments but didn’t name by name?????

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Tasos, actually he does buy great players, well he used to, and he’s bought Cazorla. But please don’t try and convince me that any of the following are great players: Chamakh, Park, Denilson, Bendtner, Almunia and Traore. That’s six of the top of my head.

    Interesting piece about time wasting although after I was half way through I wondered if my time was being wasted. How did Arsenal actually play? Was anyone outstanding? Did we look as flat and unimaginative as we did against Schalke and Norwich?

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Walter, I suppose you’re implying I’d send you abusive mail and am posing as someone else on here. I don’t do that sort of thing. I detest people who do. I may disagree with some people on here but I’ve been exceptionally moderate despite the rather random insults I’ve endured.

  • avatar Mark Andrews

    Rupert,

    “a manager who holds the unenviable record of going seven years without a trophy. No other Arsenal manager can claim that”.

    George Morrell went 7 years without a trophy between 1908-15 while the club were Woolwich Arsenal and he also has the unenviable record of being the only manager to be in charge of an Arsenal relegation. He remained in charge after the demotion season, and was the first manager at Highbury.

    Mark

  • avatar Tasos

    @Rupert cook

    Who was a great player before he came to Arsenal under Wenger?

    Interesting that you name Jelavic as a player Arsene/Arsenal should’ve purchased.

    By your own very high standards, should Everton have sacked David Moyes for his failure to bring silverware to their club during his ten year tenure?

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Mark, Wenger’s beaten his record I’m afraid.

    Everton have no money, we do. Considering the restrictions Moyes works under he’s done quite well.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    Considering the restrictions Wenger works under he has done extraordinary well. Everton in general is battling against teams like Sunderland, Fulham, ….
    We are battling against MU and the big money spenders Chelsea and Man City. 3 teams that can outspend us just by snapping with their fingers

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Tasos. Henry was a great player already but Wenger saw his potential. Pires, Vieira, Petit, Overmars, Anelka, all great players, Wenger may well have improved them. But recently his talent for finding those players has dwindled.

  • avatar Tasos

    @Rupert cook

    Moyes has won nothing for ten years and yet he has had a similar budget to Wenger in many of those seasons.

    You wreak of double standards.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Walter, I agree to an extent. And we don’t know for sure what restrictions Wenger does work under. Gazidis says he has money to spend but does he? But you have to wonder if Wenger couldn’t have found better players than Bendtner, Gervinho, Djourou, Santos, to name a few for the same money.

  • avatar rupert cook

    No Tasos Moyes has not had a similar budget.

  • avatar Tasos

    @Rupert cook

    If you genuinely believe all those players were great “before” joining Arsenal/Arsene then I question your definition of the term great.

    Henry was a flop at Juve, used mainly as winger if at all.
    Vieira barely got a game during his time at AC Milan.
    Petit was used as left back at Monaco.
    Anelka was all about potential, very very far from greatness at the time.
    Overmars was considered a crock before joining the club.

  • avatar rupert cook

    As I said Wenger may have improved them. And yes he got the best out of them. But where is his talent for finding those sort of players now? Some managers do lose their way. It happens. I hope Wenger can become the manager he was ten years ago because something is missing.

  • avatar Mark Andrews

    Rupert,

    You did say “a manager who holds the unenviable record of going seven years without a trophy. No other Arsenal manager can claim that”; not who had the longest reign, or period within a reign, without a trophy.

    Mark

  • avatar Tasos

    “MAY” have improved them.

    LOL

    You’re comedy gold Rupert.

  • avatar rupert cook

    My apologies Mark but Wenger holds the record now.

    Thanks Tasos, glad you laughed.

  • avatar Tasos

    Laughed at rather than with.

  • avatar rupert cook

    @Tasos, I’m used to it. I’ve been telling people we won’t win another trophy under Wenger since 2007. They laugh and yet every year their laughter gets a little harder to hear.

  • avatar Gouresh

    i loved the discussion and to be fair Rupert did hold his own. he does have a valid point though….but more pressing matter is that have u all heard the news as to who is the official of our game against Manure? yes you all guessed right….SPIDER [Web] MAN….. so now we know what to expect.

  • avatar Tasos

    @Rupert

    I have spent enough time on you.

    It has taken away from the real debate on here.

  • avatar rupert cook

    Thank you Gouresh. And bad news about the ref.

  • avatar Stevo433

    What is the significance of who the referee is next Saturday ?

  • avatar JohnW

    I stay very far away, in Uganda, but on Saturday when I watched the Arsenal vs QPR match, I got the impression that may be the Ref did not want Arsenal to win. It was just my view, a home team not getting the 50:50 decisions, doing all he could to frustrate us etc. So my worry is now on ManU game, if they can cheat rich Chelsea, wait what they will do to us come Saturday.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Walter

    This debate should really be about referees especially those who have permitted time wasting and have not carried out their job properly.

    What we have is rubert from the AAA sewer using the site as a platform to go on & on & on knifing AW. He is obviously getting some form of perverted thrill out of wasting everyone’s time – I suppose that is slightly relevant to the title. However, I don’t think we are any obligation to provide him with a site to continually, repetitively and boringly air his anti Wenger views. I have quite enjoyed using his comments against him without entering into a debate, but, he must now be getting close to an “oik” if not a red card for repeated fouling?

  • avatar gouresh

    @Stevo433
    Spider [Web] Man, loves all the other clubs sooooo much that he will do everything possible to make them loose against Manure!!! it’s alleged that he is on their payroll…..opps slip of the tongue!

  • avatar Mahdain

    @stevo Mike Dean

  • avatar Stevo433

    So what your saying is, if they appointed a fair and impartial referee on Saturday,
    Arsenal would actually stand a chance ? Ok, thanks , I understand now.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    Had a feeling Chelski would not take that lying down…accusations of racist and inappropriate language against a ref, whatever the outcome , West London’s finest are not exactly making friends and influencing influential people here. If they have a just cause and that really happened as they claim, they have every right to take this further…but if they do not…expect some very strange decisions against them, maybe the PGMOL might start leaving us alone and target Chelsea? Racist language is clearly unacceptable, but if this ref is done for ..say industrial language, will this end up with refs taking zero tolerance against players swearing?

  • avatar Florian

    Chelski is targeting the wrong guy. Clattenburg is not to blame for the Bridge debacle – his only blame is that his backbone eventually gave up to the Fergie-inflicted pressure – but what can you expect from guys with so much cleverness and class. They obviously didn’t bother to read last year’s referee reviews. Oh well. Rant over.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Florian

    You are correct that Clattenburg has eventually succumbed to pressure, but the trouble Chelsea has is proving that old Red Nose is responsible; consequently they cannot go for Red Nose so they have had to go for Clattenburg. However, if Clattenburg did make racist remarks – that itself is not acceptable and cannot be let go.

    Further, Chelsea will have more difficulty pursuing Clattenburg’s incompetent performance as a referee. The PGMOL seems to be answerable to no one. This is the crux of the problem, we have seen what the refs have done to Arsenal over the years, but, as the PGMOL has become more blatant in its activities fans from many clubs can see the combined Red Nose & Riley influence on the PL results – but that in itself is not sufficient proof of – what – a fixed league? So lets hope fallout from the Chelsea complaint starts the unraveling of the totally incompetent and non-democratic PGMOL.

  • avatar Mahdain

    @Bjtgooner im waiting for another debacle next saturday and i trust Dean will provide one but wont be as bad as Clattenburg’s. Dean knows how to keep a low profile, he is the master of doing that.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Mahdain

    I agree, Dean will be a problem, also as you point out the difficulty with Dean is he is very cunning and subtle, he will try to screw us but he will not be as obvious as e.g. Dowd.

    However, lets remember we managed to beat Spurs last year with Dean as ref, so lets hope our guys hit top form.

    Also, something bad going on behind the scenes with the double talker!

  • avatar Florian

    @bjt

    Totally agree that racism is unacceptable and should be punished. I guess I needed to be more clear in the sense that to me it seems more of a counterfeit revenge that Chel$ki put up, so what I’m really questioning is the truthfulness of their statements. Since I have no proof of that though, I’ll stop here.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Florian

    We will just have to wait & see how the Chel$ki complaint pans out. I suspect that as Clattenburg has appeared to be one of Riley’s less favoured refs, Riley may well sacrifice him to try and make the rest of the PGMOL look sanitised. But, if Clattenburg did make racist remarks he deserves to be punished.

    I agree with your thought that Chelsea would like to complain about Clattenburg’s decisions but under the present set up they can’t, so this has given added momentum to complain about the racist remarks.

  • avatar Mandy Dodd

    A very strange situation that is Chelsea clattenberg. The outcome will be a ref, who I at least thought was one of the better ones overall….and despite decisions at the weekend….being sacked, or Chelsea being completely and utterly discredited. There are those within the Chelsea set up who clearly lack class, but would they take such a risk over a groundless accusation?
    In general, I have admired clattenberg as a ref….with the odd exception, but must admit, I fear for him at this moment, but as has been said, IF anything racist has gone on, that is unacceptable whatever the pressure or provocation….and boy did he look like a man under pressure during that game.

  • avatar WalterBroeckx

    About Clattenberg we will be reviewing the game of course. ;-) but alas not with the sound and the words spoken.
    Could it be that he knew he had to make sure United would win this game to get the top games again?
    Having only seen short highlights I must say that the sending off of Ivanovic was spot on as it was a foul on a player on his way to goal. If it was a foul and not a dive as with Young …well you never know.
    The second yellow card for Torres can also be defended imo. It looked to be a dive and thus a yellow was correct. The first foul from Torres looked already close to a red card imo.

    The goal was offside but this is more down to a mistake from the assistant so one cannot blame him directly.

    But of course what was not shown in the highlights will tell us more.

  • avatar bjtgooner

    @Walter

    Look forward to the review, especially regarding Rooney’s situation, there was a suggestion that Clattenburg chickened out of sending him off – so it will be interesting to see your take on this.