By Tony Attwood
A poster on X recently wrote…
- Time per Liverpool corner: – 22 seconds – 34 seconds – 18 seconds
- Time for Raya yellow card for time wasting: – 19 seconds
The writer who noted those times then followed up those statistics with the comment “It’s pre-meditated.”
I was grateful to read those statistics, but I can’t agree with the conclusion if it suggests that this was pre-meditated by the ref. For pre-meditated suggests it is planned by the referee – he knows in advance he is going to help Liverpool to get away with it. But it could well be planned by players who know how the ref will respond.
Thus such a state of affairs might come about through incompetence, or it might be that the bias is sub-conscious while the reporting could well be simply copycat, but it is being used by some clubs In this case, Liverpool are seen as a fair-minded team, and indeed are promoted as such by some journalists, although without anything by way of evidence which compares the club to other clubs. And the reverse might be true.
That situation reveals simple copycat journalism set out in order to get an article off to the sports editor as fast as possible, before moving on to the next piece.
The result of such actions can be seen in the correspondence column here. For if you follow some of the comments on this site, you may well have noted one correspondent writing in what has become a typical fashion, abusing us for even raising the issue that something is not right, but without providing any evidence to support the correspondent’s case.
On the other hand, I don’t think we’ve had anyone take up the issue of why David Coote last season saw over half of all the matches he controlled as home wins, while Jarred Gillett saw almost half the games he controlled as away wins. While Anthony Taylor saw over half the games he controlled as draws. And these are all referees overseeing more than 20 Premier League games.
To put it another way, if the away team is told that Darren England is the referee, they know they should play 11 behind the ball and go for a draw, because judging by his figures they ain’t gonna get a win. While a home team seeing they have Robert Jones knows to go full-on to score and then just hold onto that winning position, since Mr Jones very rarely oversees a game in which the away team picks up points.
But this is not to say that there is deliberate bias. As the research undertaken during the pandemic shows, referees are influenced by the crowd. But since then referees have changed – some taking no notice of the research and still being influenced by the home crowd, while others are fighting against that influence so much, they bend over backwards to help the away team along.
However, even in these circumstances, I don’t think the referee actually knows he’s doing it. Which is yet another reason why a) the PGMO needs to be brought under control perhaps by being overseen by an outside independent controller. Or if you prefer Nanny. And b) an attempt needs to be made to educate the journalists who make fun of Arsenal fans who suggest anything is wrong with refereeing and show them that quite a few of us are looking at this seriously.
The simple fact is there is no proper discussion of refereeing in the Premier League, Just consider the basic facts.
First here we have a monopoly supplier of referees that has basically said it has run out of money. How can that be other than through corruption or incompetence?
Second, here is a monopoly supplier of an important commodity which has no public face and allows no media engagement with it – unlike in other countries where the referee can give interviews after the game.
Third, there is a media which unwittingly or wittingly supports the stance of PGMO by utterly refusing to engage in the debate. The key point is not that some Arsenal fans think Referee X is biased, or that some fans of another club think that Referee Y is biased. It is the fact that the media won’t engage in any sort of debate at all. Not even, how come the referee answers questions on TV after the game in Germany, but is even told which car he is to be driven away from the ground in, in England?
Simply laughing at anyone who raises the issue of referee competence is playing into the hands of the ultra-secretive PGMO, and is exactly what they want. Likewise suggesting that there is clearly bias, doesn’t get us anywhere, because those who laugh at this and call it a “conspiracy theory” are already fairly numerous.
The only way forward is to try and fix this by having a much more open PGMO, enough referees so that no club sees the same ref more than twice in a season, and far better training for referees so that we stop having obvious “home club” referees and equally obvious “away club” referees.
The way I see it, the entire refereeing system and rules is set up to permit biases etc. In order for the game to be fair, you must remove as much judgement as possible and let the teams decide how they want to play.
What I mean is, in terms of fairness for example the delaying restart rule is set up to be unfair. It would be simpler to say if the player kicks the ball 1.5 seconds or 1 seconds after the whistle is blown he will be penalized for delaying the restart. This gives teams the right to now, be clever or to be stupid. What would them happen is that the referees judgement call is no longer required and every team can be treated equally.
We could go through all the rules and convert 90% of them to be more objective and less subjective thereby removing elreferees from the centre stage and leaving the players and teams to make use of the rules as they see fit. There is absolutely no need to micromanage the way the game is played.
In my view, the referees are upset at Arteta for exposing their bias or ineptitude, and they are thus seizing every opportunity to punish Arsenal. I think the gunners can forget any domestic silverware this season and focus on Europe.
One thing is absolutely certain.” We are reffed differently “.Why?There are numerous examples of this that cannot be explained by simply saying we’re paranoid.
Guys, any reader whichever club you support,
I’m wondering if this systematic display of refereeing incompetence we have been witnessing soince the start of the season is limited to Arsenal being mishandled, or if there are other clubs whose fans have the ‘feeling’ that their club is being treated the same way.
Let us know, we’ll look into it.
Chris, whilst the particular bias against Arsenal is, in my view. consistent and has been evident for years, I am sure that you are correct that other clubs have been screwed by PGMOL on occasions. If recent memory is correct, Wolves seem to have been the victim of unfair refereeing on quite a few occasions.
Sally Pally suggested this in the previous thread, noting that established bias, from which everyone knows Man Utd were the notorious beneficiaries, now can be seen to favour 115 City. Taylor on Sunday may have been pro-City in favouring a draw between their two main rivals, rather than necessarily pro-Liverpool. However, would he have denied Liverpool a late goal or denied them a clear corner? We will never know, but may well have our suspicions.
First off I have to say that the time given on X is incorrect. I have taken a look it was on 30 seconds when Raya was carded. This isn’t to say that all this isn’t still a crock of shit, because it is, but if we are going to look at this objectively we need to get the facts correct.
By coincidence there was an article on the topic of goal kicks, and how long teams took over them, in The Sun just recently, and the findings taken from Opta are very interesting.
The Sun starts with the observation that “it appears there is a trend for some of the best teams in the division to take longer between a goal kick being awarded it and being taken, suggesting it’s a smart tactic not to rush them”.
These are just a few of the stats, with the full list of teams in the article I’ve linked at the bottom:
-Manchester City have the longest delay in taking their goal kicks this season, with an average time of 39.3 seconds.
-Arsenal rank second in this regard, with the Gunners taking 37.8 seconds on average to take a goal kick.
– Ipswich take 37.7 seconds
-Newcastle take 35.3 seconds.
-Brighton, Manchester United and Liverpool taking 18.5, 20.3 and 21.5 seconds.
-Tottenham are the team that takes the shortest time at just 16.9 seconds on average
So, despite Man city’s recent protestations about Arsenal and their ‘Dark Arts’ it is in fact they who waste the most time at Goal kicks with an average time taken of 39.3 seconds. Nearly 10 seconds longer than the time Taylor booked Raya for.
And lets not forget, that is an AVERAGE TIME TAKEN by Man city, so obviously they often take even longer.
As such, it would be interesting to know how many cards they have received for time wasting? I think we all know the answer to that don’t we.
Lets also not forget that that average is not for a team under duress. Hanging in there under pressure. That time is for a team very rarely in such a position. They just do so as a matter of course. Game management you might call it. Exactly what we got all the abuse for up at the Etihad.
If you look at my link you will see every teams times, which I have averaged out at 28.29 seconds.
Raya was therefor booked at what is the AVERAGE time taken over a goal kick in the premier league as a whole, and at a time that was nowhere near Man City’s AVERAGE.
The article was Published on the 21 Sep 2024 by Tony Robertson, who is the Suns Digital Sports Reporter apparently
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/30575410/average-time-premier-league-team-goal-kick-genuis-tactic/
Before I go, and given it is media darlings Man City that are time waster in-chiefs, I think it’s interesting to note The Suns initial comment that, “When it comes to Man City taking goal kicks, IT’S A SMART TACTIC NOT RUSH THEM.
So SMART when it’s Man City, DARK ARTS when it’s Arsenal.
Two sets of rules: One for Arsenal. One for the rest.
Two ways of reporting. One for Arsenal. One for the rest.
I am surprised the author of this article has not picked up on the northern bias the PGMOL has installed with regards to the recruitment of referees.
Seventeen of the twenty premiership referees are located north of Nottingham and the other three are located in the South West.
Eleven of the twenty reside in the Liverpool – Manchester area.
Not ONE referee is located in the South of England, Greater London, The South East, East Anglia and the Midlands south of Nottingham – a catchment area of approximately 35 million people.
You have a situation that conjures up conflicts of interest – the perfect example was the VAR official for the Bournemouth Vs Arsenal – a lifelong Liverpool fan.
My opinion is that it is incompetence – pure and simple. I don’t think that PGMOL possess the required intelligence for it to be corruption.
Me2
“My opinion is that it is incompetence – pure and simple. I don’t think that PGMOL possess the required intelligence for it to be corruption.”
If it was purely incompetence then surely we would have just as many bad calls go our way as against us, no?
Of course we’ve had the odd few decisions go our way over the years, but nothing like the amount that go against us. And when they do go our way, don’t we know about it!!
Your point about the geographical bias is a good one, but being new here (I’m guessing) you wouldn’t know, but it has been highlighted many many times, though as you say not in this particular article.
As you say, another disgraceful bias, and another one that goes totally un questioned by the media.
Just a thought if PGMOL are soon to be bankrupt, could this mean that some refs that may have been paid hush money, finally speak up?