By Tony Attwood
- Arsenal v Wolverhampton Wands: the Arsenal team and a prediction
- When life gives problems, Arsenal can be a solution
I am not sure too many people will bother with a league table this morning, but being Untold, we’ll include one for the six clubs that have won so far in the opening game
| Team | P | W | D | L | F | A | GD | Pts | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Brighton and Hove Albion | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 3 |
| 2 | Arsenal | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 3 |
| 3 | Liverpool | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 3 |
| 4 | Aston Villa | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 3 |
| 5 | Manchester United | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 3 |
| 6 | Newcastle United | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 3 |
But more to the point is Kai Havertz, who scored at a time when the main ranting of the media is that Arsenal of needing to sign a new striker.
His best season for scoring was 2018/19 for Leverkusen when he got 20 goals in 42 (0.48 per game). He never got near that at Chelsea with 14 in 47 being his best there in 2021/22 (0.30 per game). Last season for Arsenal in the league it was 13 in 30 (0.43 per game).
But if we look at his goalscoring over the last 18 league games he has played it is 10 goals in 19 last games – or 0.52 goals a game – better than at any time in his career (10 in the last 15 in all competitions according to the Guardian).
Last season the top scorers got 27 (Haaland), 22 (Palmer) and 21 league goals, (Isaak).
Of course, the first thing to note is that Palmer played for Chelsea and Isak for Newcastle, showing that having a top scorer doesn’t help win the league. But since Newcastle were 7th last season and Chelse 6th we can note that it can help the lesser clubs in the scramble for Europe.
Nor come to that does having the top scorer always help the club score the most goals. Newcastle were the fourth-highest scorers last season and Chelsea the fifth (14 goals behind Arsenal).
Of course, it might be nice if some of those people who have spent the summer saying that Arsenal need a new centre forward, and those who bleated about Arteta blowing the entire Arsenal budget on Havertz, could come forth and apologise (we would of course graciously accept the apology), but I haven’t seen such writings as yet.
But as Arteta said, “Every player needs some time to adapt and get to know everybody – the club, the relationships, the system.”
So after just one game Havertz and Saka each have a goal and an assist – which although very early in the season (2.6% of the season gone in fact) – isn’t too bad a start.
Gary O’Neil, of Wolverhampton, said he saw “lots of positives” in his team so maybe I should try and stop blinking because that is quite a bit more than I saw. Last season Wolverhampton let in 1.71 goals a game – so two in the first match is pretty much their level.
Football Fancast however choose to focus on Kiwior with the headline “Time to go” and the storyline that “£20m ace looks like he could never play for Arsenal.”
Footballfancast however tell us that Arsenal have been chasing Mikel Merino (the midfielder with Real Sociedad) for over a month now and they are expecting a development there. Reedit adds “Arsenal not expected to make any further signings this summer barring a late surprise, and they come up with the same name.
So the next game is away to Aston Villa who beat West Ham away. yesterday with Julen Lopetegui as their manager – the man who was previously manager of Wolverhampton Wanderers, which just goes to show how these things go around and around. The last we heard of David Moyes was that he was working for Talk Sport which is probably about right for him.
As for the Wolverhampton manager Gary O’Neil he was sacked by Bournemouth in June 2023, before taking up the Wolverhampton job at the start of last season.
Which raises an interesting question about how these managers go around and around. Since 2001 Wolverhampton have had eight managers and Arsenal four (this number obviously includes temporary managers such as Freddie in Arsenal’s case).
Changing the manager, like buying new players all the time, is what the media and some bloggers scream for all day long, and yet mostly it quite simply fails to deliver improvement. Indeed quite often it can make matters worse.
So why do journalists and bloggers and other commentators keep on screaming for more and more new players and constant change of managers? The model of this approach must be Chelsea which saw the club score 38 goals in 38 games the season before last.
But the desire for a new manager continues because…
a) The journalists love de-stabilising clubs since that is easy then to write about.
b) The journalists don’t bother to read the statistics and think that managerial changes do work.
c) The journalists know exactly what they are doing and love to de-stabilise clubs.
d) Writing about a possible new manager takes no research and little effort.
I leave you to decide.
One thing I have learned is that trying to choke an Arsenal player who is on the ground does not warrant a red card.
Talking about strikers, what happened to the idea that Obi’s transfer from Arsenal to ManU was that he thought he would get more of an opportunity to play first team football.
Well Arsenal beat the ManU under 21s this week, and Obi was nowhere to be seen, also ManU senior team had a lot of injuries, and yet Obi was nowhere to be seen.
In fact ManUs new young 23yr old forward got the only winning goal for United, so good luck to Obi in trying to replace 23 yr old forward Zirkzee (not for the next 5 years at least), not exactly fast tracking his career.
Obi must be looking at Nwaneri and thinking why did I listen to those ManU false promises, because I can’t even perform in their under 21 team let alone the injury rich first team, where their was now an opportunity, but judging on Zirkzees performance, Obi will have a lot longer wait now.
Let’s see how the season pans out for Obi, as he could become a shining example of what not to do for other Arsenal academy players.
I wonder what his goal tally will be this year without the very created Arsenal team mates laying it on for him.
Daveg,
Perhaps Obi will be like Sanchez, who regretted going to Man Utd on his first day at the club’s training ground and realised that he had made a huge mistake.
People have opinions and sometimes they are wrong. Apologise, for what? Having an opinion? \do you apologise every time you have a wrong opinion? Ridiculous.
Personally I think journalists, can and do use the ‘Bogus’ transfer ruse, as either a positive tool, or a negative tool, depending on the club and their intention to either ridicule or praise.
I thought the use of these ‘stories’ in those two vastly different ways was at is most vivid during our baron years under Wenger, when according to the media he could do nothing right. This was at a time when the Man Utd love-in was at it’s peak and Sir Alex in particular could do no wrong. Back in the day when I was still daft enough to listen to Talkshite I heard the following scenario on many many times.
How it was used to knock Arsenal.
Endless stories of players coming to Arsenal, none of which were realistically ever going to happen. But it gets the fans all excited on the phone-ins. The pay off was the next phone-in about how Arsenal failed yet again to buy anyone. How Arsenal are useless. How Arsenal have no ambition. No money. No new players. Rubbish manager. All night long. And on and on it goes, to this day in fact.
How it was used to praise Man Utd
Endless stories of players coming to Man Utd, many of which were realistically never going to happen. But it gets the fans all excited on the phone-ins. So far, exactly the same. The difference is the reaction to what happens when they don’t actually buy the players we were told they were going to. Yes, we get the follow up phone-in but instead of endless ridicule we are told it’s all about the ‘ambition’. How it shows what a massive Club Man United are, simply on the basis these marquee players are seriously considering going to them. How rich Man Utd are, given they are seriously looking at buying these players.
But are they? In both scenarios we actually have no idea if these players were ever even targets?
But in one case it’s turned into a positive. In the other in to a negative.
The medias different approach to this subject is brought in to stark contrast again this season.
Can you imagine the furore if we were in Liverpools shoes?
Propogating an opinion with no evidence.
Disregarding false number 9s, A big team like Arsenal should have at least 3 quality strikers.
It use to be 4 in the squad when we played 4-4-2, with one being old (30s) and one being very young (Academy) and two regular first choices.
We no longer play a 4-4-2 and now play a 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-3, I think (please correct me if I am wrong).
However, we need a third option of playing 4-2-3-1 against tougher opposition and we only really have Havertz as a possible Lone TargetMan Centre Forward type striker.
So we do need options as Nketiah and Jesus are more your old type strikers in the 4-4-2 formation or maybe false number 9s in the 4-3-3 formation. But against tougher opposition in the 4-2-3-1 we only have Havertz that comes close to what we need, however he is not always on show as a lone CF against the so called bigger teams or European opposition.
Arteta knows that we do need these options, and it will depend if Nketiah gets sold (to balance the wages), before the window closes as to whether Arteta gets in an optional TargetMan or whether he waits until the January window re-opens. Against the majority of teams, Havertz will do a good job and score goals. But to excel to the next level and pass ManCity, we need that option of a 4-2-3-1 against the Top Clubs as Havertz is not enough to carry through the whole season.
IMO.
Of yesterday’s game, the impressive moment, IMHO, was Timber going into the WOL box from the right wing. A real tank. You could see the physical force he can bring.
I think we’ve not seen a guy bulldoze his way like this since Kolasinac, and this kind of physicality is something I feel we have been missing.
Daveg
“Havertz will do a good job and score goals. But to excel to the next level and pass Man City, we need that option of a 4-2-3-1 against the Top Clubs as Havertz is not enough to carry through the whole season.”
As is often the case, not really sure what you are talking about. You are obsessed with this need to buy a ‘striker’. I cant think for a second where you get that from?
Usually it manifests itself with your obsession with Wirtz, although it seems the reality of that situation has finally sunk in.
And as you have again repeated above, you also seem obsessed with the notion that Havertz isn’t good enough to lead the line, and this despite his second half goal scoring feats that saw him score at his best rate ever, that would of seen him comfortably exceed 20goals in a season.
But here’s the thing.
In the first half of the season, when he played in midfield, we scored 35 goals.
In the second half of the season, when he moved to centre forward, we scored 56 goals.
That is a 50% increase in goals scored. That is an enormous increase and an enormous return over all. If you extrapolate that across a whole season we would of scored 112 goals and almost certainly of won the league.
I know it’s not an exact science doing things like that, but it does suggest beyond all doubt that this team has the goals in it to win the PL.
We do not NEED a new striker. Arteta may want one. I don’t know. We may, we may not buy another ‘striker’. If we get one I will welcome him with open arms. But either way, personally I couldn’t care less
IMO
Nitram,
No need to get personal, it’s only an opinion that most fans would agree if you read other posts. I got my STATs from examining the individual matches against the top 4 to 6 teams, where we were under equal pressure, and found Havertz a bit of a no show.
If I asked you the question, would you swap Havertz for Haaland? I think you would find your answer their!
I only suggested we need options, not to replace Havertz, but give him some competition. It would all depend on whether Edu sells Nketiah or not.
Please be non personal, with words like “obsessed with”, it doesn’t look good, and just creates the awkward silence and disregard for your otherwise good opinion. I normally agree and like reading your opinion.
I am also a Havertz fan, but I would always want more for Arsenal, as most fans would agree, including Arteta, nothing wrong with that. IMHO.
Daveg
You are obsessed. Sorry if you take that personally.
You’re not really having a good day today.
You are not sorry, because you wouldn’t repeat it, but you are insecure and childish in your lack of understanding in what is shameful in attacking a fellow gooner rather than just expressing your own opinion as I had originally done.
Keep you attacks and baiting to the article and not to fellow posts, who also are allowed to express their own opinion, especially if they back them up with facts as I have done.
The Facts are Havertz is a good striker, although he missed a sitter against Wolves for which the commentators judged him as not being a natural number 9, that’s why he missed. Their comments not mine.
The facts are I agree with most of what Tony has said in his article, I was just adding some facts but not disputing Tony’s article, as I never do. I have respect for his vast knowledge, and he knows that from my previous posts.
The facts are Havertz wants consistent against the top 4 or 6 teams last season, which is why I said we need options, I did not say we need to replace Havertz.
It’s one game in and he scores a goal and people think he is the next Henry, or should I say Alan Smith. Early days, let’s not get carried away that Havertz will last the 50 odd games injury free and without dips and patches in form.
I am obsessed with Arsenal, I would hope you are too.
Daveg
“No need to get personal, it’s only an opinion that most fans would agree if you read other posts”.
No they don’t and even if they do they doesn’t make them right.
Then you say:
“I got my STATs from examining the individual matches against the top 4 to 6 teams, where we were under equal pressure, and found Havertz a bit of a no show.”
Excuse me for saying, but you didn’t look very well did you.
Just to establish a few things:
I’m not counting penalties because Havertz does not take our penalties.
You said top 6 so that’s down to Chelsea in 6th.
Lets not forget Havertz only played the second half of the season as centre forward.
So, to begin with, and because Havertz indeed did only play as centre forward for the second half of the season, I would like to point out that that means he only actually played up front against top 6 sides 5 times. At home to Liverpool. Away to Spurs. At home to Chelsea. At home to Villa. Away to Man City.
In those 5 matches that Havertz did play up front he scored 3 goals. For comparison, and substituting Arsenal for Man City, in the corresponding 5 matches Haarland also scored 3 goals.
But lets not be churlish, lets look at the entire season against the top 6 sides.
Well blow me down with a feather. Despite playing the entire season at centre forward, spear heading one of the best teams we have ever seen Haarland scored…….Oh dear, just the 3.
Yep over the entire season Haarland scored 3 goals against top 6 sides. A bit of a NO SHOW wouldn’t you say.
Yet, I don’t hear anyone suggesting Haarland needs some help. Or Haarlands not good enough to lead the line at Man City on the basis he doesn’t turn up for the big games.
And even if you want to expand this down to say Man Utd in 8th Haarlands goals against them sores to a massive 5. That’s just 5 goals in 14 matches against the top 8 sides. Incidentally Haavertz total over the whole season is 4, despite playing half the season in midfield, AND it being his first season.
So your stats are totally wrong, or at the very least without context and or comparison. But that’s what happens when you allow your obsession to blind you to the facts.
Daveg
“I am obsessed with Arsenal, I would hope you are too”.
Yes, like you I am obsessed with Arsenal. I am also obsessed with music, concerts, the theatre, mixed grills and most of all Lager. Obsessions happen. They are real. Sorry if it’s upset you, but whether you like it or not, you are obsessed with the notion we need another striker. It is not meant as an insult, it is just an observation. If you get upset simply because I suggest you have an obsession with Arsenal buying a striker heaven help you.
You have been advocating as such the entire close season, with specific reference to Wirtz, for whom I jokingly suggested you sound like his agent.
As I have pointed out above, and whether you like it or not, the stats you have used to support your theory are without context or comparison and as such do not paint a fair or accurate assessment of Havertz first season at Arsenal.
-It was Havertz first season at Arsenal.
-He played in midfield for half the season
-His return against top sides was as good as the best centre forward in the country.
These are massive factors to be taken in to account. You took none of them.
You never mentioned the teams he scored a total of 3 against, which is convenient. Check out sofascore.com for your real facts. I have given this website, so that others can really see who is right and who is wrong. In particular, check out his appalling no show, European games.
Those reading this will know by checking sofascore.com that your facts are slightly warped to try and suit your Argument, if he played this way or that way. His European games was a no show, because the opposition is tougher as is the top 4 or 6 teams as proven once again on sofascore.com. I am open on the details and where I get my facts from, for others to verify for themselves, without adding excuses of where he starts etc.. I mean, Saka starts on the wing and is just as far from goal as Havertz, if not further away. Less of the made up facts and strange excuses and more factual details and provided source please, so others can check his European no show games and poor premier performances against tougher opponents.
Maybe a no show in Europe is the challenge for Havertz to raise his game, we shall see and revisit this discussion as you have bravely gone on record as saying he can compete and score goals in Europe and against the tougher bigger teams. I hope you are right this season, because you are wrong about last year’s European games and top opposition.
I respect your argument, as it was not personal and more readable without cringing, baiting or belittling, as your facts are somewhat correct but slightly warped if you consider in comparison where Saka starts and distance from goal and he’s not even a striker and expected to score.
You can have the last word as others can check the facts under “matches” on com for themselves.
Well done. LoL and peace my fellow gooner.
Daveg.
I said you were obsessed.
Is that really “personal…….. cringing, baiting or belittling” Honestly man, get some back bone.
“You never mentioned the teams he scored a total of 3 against, which is convenient”
I made a direct comparison between the top 6 teams, the parameter that YOU used to criticise Havertz.
In case you have forgotten this is what you said:
“I got my STATs from examining the individual matches against the top 4 to 6 teams”
So I made my comparison between their performances against the top 6.
Just to remind you, this is what I said:
“So, to begin with, and because Havertz indeed did only play as centre forward for the second half of the season, I would like to point out that that means he only actually played up front against top 6 sides 5 times. At home to Liverpool. Away to Spurs. At home to Chelsea. At home to Villa. Away to Man City.
In those 5 matches that Havertz did play up front he scored 3 goals. For comparison, and substituting Arsenal for Man City, in the corresponding 5 matches Haarland also scored 3 goals.
But now you want it down to the actual teams. Fine:
Havertz.
Chelsea 2
Spurs 1
Haarland
Liverpool 1
Chelsea 1
Spurs 1
So, almost identical. But the thing is, Havertz only played as a striker 5 times for his 3 goals, where as Haarland played as a striker 10 times for his 3 goals.
I know who I think is the ‘No Show’ against top opponents.
So now, because your figures on the PL are so wrong you throw in the CL.
Okay, but again Havertz played in midfield up until Christmas, meaning he only played as a striker in the round of 16 and quarter final, in which he failed to score.
But again for context and comparison Haarlaad scored just one goal over the round of 16 and quarter final. Yep ONE.
Anyway, I shall address all your points:
“Less of the made up facts”
Find me ONE fact or stat I have made up. ONE.
“strange excuses”
Please point out what you mean by ‘strange’ excuse?
“more factual details”
The facts are, who scored and who against. Not sure what other facts you need? Please explain.
“provided source please”
Why on earth do you need sources? The details of every match, who scored and when are everywhere. On Wiki, on Arsenals web site, on Man Cities, on the PL’s, on SKY, on the BBC. I mean how many sources do you need?
“so others can check his European no show games”
As I said above, Havertz only played up front in 2 rounds, and okay he didn’t score, but Haarland only scored 1 in the same 2 rounds, and that was against the mighty Copenhagen. He failed to score against Real Madrid. Another no show from him against a superior opponent..
“poor premier performances against tougher opponents”
Answered above, but again:
Havertz played just FIVE matches as a striker against TOP 6 (your parameters) opponents (Man City, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Spurs and Chelsea) and scored 3 times. Haarland played TEN times against TOP 6 opponents (Arsenal, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Spurs, and Chelsea) and scored 3 times.
I know who I think is the ‘No Show’ against quality opposition and it aint Havertz.
Honestly mate. Stop digging!!!!!
Nitram,
You do know that other posts can see these facts for themselves on sofascore.com under stats uafa champions league 2023. Your not kidding anyone.
Warped facts again for Havertz. He really is poor in Europe no matter how you cut it.
Others will see what the true facts are. His European record last season is a joke.
No matter how you change it to try and suit your argument.
1 goal in 10 games. Drop the mike, one nil.
Everyone, please check these true facts on sofascore.com. It will tell you about Havertz no show with just 1 Champions League goal in 10 champion league games.
Plus the Top 4 team records is almost just as appalling. Warped facts again trying to justify 1 goal in 10 games. Unbelievably funny.
Whilst not wishing to enter this particular dialogue, I am happy to state that I would not wish to swap Havertz for Haaland,
daveg
“1 Champions League goal in 10 champion league games”.
But he only played up front in 4!! He was a midfield player prior to that. He was also still trying to find his feet in a new team. If you don’t want to cut him some slack for that that’s up to you. I do, and I will.
“Plus the Top 4 team records is almost just as appalling. Warped facts again trying to justify 1 goal in 10 games. Unbelievably funny.”
But you are not making sense. How can you play 10 games against 3 other top 4 opponents?
Outside of ourselves, both Arsenal and Man City only play 6 games against other top 4 teams. 2 against each other. 2 against Liverpool. 2 against Aston Villa. They are the top 4 teams. So where on earth do you get 1 goal in 10 matches? It doesn’t make sense.
So, okay, lets look at those 6 matches against the other top 4 teams, and if we do, in fact we see Havertz didn’t actually score even one goal in any of those 6 games against Man City, Liverpool, and Aston Villa.
But what about Haarland over the equivalent 6 games against Arsenal, Liverpool and Aston Villa. Well, if we do we see that he scored just the 1 goal at home to Liverpool.
So, Haarland scored one goal in comparison to Havertz nil. Wow. If you can claim Havertz is an appalling ‘No Show’ what about Haarland?
But lets say you meant against more ‘top’ teams. What:
If you expand that to 5th placed Spurs:
Havertz 1
Haarland 2
If you expand that to 6th placed Chelsea:
Havertz 3
Haarland 3
So, both Havertz and Haarland scored 3 goals each against the top 6 teams over 10 games, Home and Away
If you expand that to 7th placed Newcastle:
Havertz 4
Haarland 3
If you expand that to 8th placed Man Utd:
Havertz 4
Haarland 5
Havertz didn’t score against Man City, Liverpool and Aston Villa.
Haarland didn’t score against Arsenal, Aston villa and Newcastle.
So, I have reproduced, not asked people to go searching themselves, I have reproduced the exact number of goals both Havertz and Haarland have scored against teams in the top 4 and then all the way down to 8th placed Man Utd, and they almost match each other goal for goal.
I haven’t even had to split the season in half which would take in to account the fact Havertz was in midfield until January.
Over the entire Premier league season they are almost identical returns from both players. If Havertz is an ‘Appalling No Show’ in big matches, then so is Haarland?
Every one of those figures is accurate. They are not made up. If you think they are point them out.
Honestly, I don’t know what else I can do.
Your posts are getting longer and longer and I can see you are very passionate in what you believe, so you deserve credit for that.
Let’s end it with, we have different opinions on this one subject and it is speculation from here on, in how Havertz will perform and whether it will remain so for the vast majority of 50 or so games to come.
Nitram, I pray that you are right and prove me wrong and hope that Havertz is enough to tackle all competitions, Europe and Domestic without another competitive Center Forward to help him. Let’s both wait and see, hopefully you are correct in your prediction. Truly No argument there, we both want Arsenal and Havertz to improve and succeed.
LoL and peace fellow gooner.
daveg
“Your posts are getting longer and longer”
Not really, just more gaps😊🤦♂️
Fair enough. At the end of the day we do both want the same thing.
The truth is, as a retired miserable old git I sometimes have too much time on my hands (I hope Mrs N doesn’t see this) and often fill it by rambling on and on and on……
I too hope I am right because I don’t think we will buy a forward, but if we do I will welcome him with open arms and will then be hoping you are correct, and he does indeed take us to the next level, whoever he is.
Time will tell.
Peace has indeed broken out 🍻🤣