Why it’s not the same for Jack despite the claims

By Walter Broeckx

So Jack Wilshere has been included in the -21 squad that will represent England on the European Championship this summer. I wish England and Jack all the best.

As we all know Wenger is against Jack being called up for this tournament. Because it would mean that Wilshere will have no real summer vacation and this could be very harmful for the next season not just for Arsenal but also for Wilshere.

Wenger points at Walcott who had to deal with the same thing in the summer of 2009. And at the start of the 2010 season he went from injury to injury and had a rather poor season. The final result was that he even missed out on the world cup for England. So when you look at this example you would say: Don’t do it Jack.

But as we know the other people in England know more than Wenger. Or think they know more.  Wenger is a moaner and  Stuart Pearce knows more about football than Wenger. This is the message that has been passed to the media. All sorts of old names in football come along to support Stuart Pearce.

Like Sir Trevor Brooking. He defended the inclusion of Wilshere. And he pointed at Spain and Germany as a perfect example on how to win tournaments and later get the benefit to win or come close to winning in the senior tournaments.

And yes we all know that Germany won the -21 European championship in 2009 and that one year later a lot of those players where in South Africa where Germany reached the semi finals. So at first sight one could say: yeah lets include Wilshere and England will benefit from him the year after.

But can one compare Germany then and England now? Can one compare the likes of Ozil and Wilshere?  No and what people like Brooking forget to say is that when Ozil was one of the best players for Germany in the -21 European championship he was not a full German international for the seniors.

Oh, well let us take Spain. You know they won all European championships with their youth teams in the years from 2000 and at the end of the decade those players went on to win the European championship2008, the world cup 2010. See we should include Wilshere and England will become world Champion. If it would be that simple.

Because when we look at those youth teams that won those titles for Spain it had players like Iniesta, Pique, Pedro, Fabregas included in their line up. So at first sight again you might say: include Jack for god’s sake.

But what all those people like Pearce and Brooking ignore is the fact that when those players played in those tournaments they were not full internationals for the senior team.

Ozil only went to play for the senior Germany side after having won the -21 European championship.

Pique only started playing for Spain in 2009. Iniesta only became a full international in 2006 and that is many years after having played for the youth teams. Pedro only became a full international since 2010 and before just played in the youth teams. Busquets only played for the Spanish team since 2008 and not for the youth teams.

And also our own Cesc Fabregas never played at the same time for the Spanish youth teams and the senior teams.

And this is where all those people are wrong. Because Wilshere is already a full international player for the senior English team. In the last 2 games he has started and didn’t even get much rest compared to players from other teams.

But the main point is that or he is a senior English international player and the youth teams should leave him alone or they say: no he is a youth team player and then Capello should leave him alone.

But making it look as if it is a natural thing to do is not the truth. As far as I could see the countries they refer to have never played their players at the same time in both the youth team and the senior team.

In fact come to think of it. The only team that has done this before is…. England with Theo Walcott. And we all know what a great success story that has been for him and for Arsenal.

I can understand Wilshere. When you are young you think you cannot get tired or get overexposed. But people more experienced than him know the danger better. So I will not blame Wilshere for going to the -21 European Championship.  After all any football player would like to go to such a tournament.

But when Jack will be burned out next season I think it will be time to remember Stuart Pearce and Capello what they  have done this summer. Next year will be a very tough year for Wilshere. Because now at the start no one expected him to shine like he did. There was no real pressure on his shoulders. But from now on he will be seen as someone we can build on. And then the pressure will be bigger. And the critics will be harder when he has a bad game. And when in such a season you start with a disadvantage and are more tired you will have more bad games.

The best thing for Arsenal would be that Wilshere is picked where he belongs: in the senior squad and then gets a good rest in the summer. It will do him a lot of good for next season. Not just for him personally but also for Arsenal. And at the end of the day Arsenal is who is paying his wages and are the most important team he should keep in mind.

But if you go to the European championship, good luck Jack.

The story of when Arsenal went bust

Arsenal today, tomorrow, next week, and some scandal too

Remember Bruce Rioch?  The History site looks at Arsenal’s last manager

Arsenal on Twitter @Untold Arsenal

34 Replies to “Why it’s not the same for Jack despite the claims”

  1. totally agree with you Walter. It’s clearly foolish the way it’d rule him out of England Qualifiers early next season, and it’d mean he hasn’t had a break before the Euros.

  2. Jack does not have to face burn out, Wenger could rest him at the beginning of the season. I just dont get why clubs think they should prevent players playing for their country. Winning this tournament would be a fantastic achievement for JW and if you look at the squad, there is every chance of that. I just wish a few more Arsenal players could have made the cut, but when you look at the quality of the 40 you can understand why. Remember Bentley choosing to miss this tournament a few years back, that completely back fired on him. Whereas James Milner and Ashley Young have really pushed on. For me the international issue should be why are we playing friendlies when the season ends and before it has started? Tournaments and qualifiers yes, friendlies NO! There needs to be a universal international season and shorter domestic seasons. The EPL needs to be smaller (16 or 18 teams max) and we should only have one domestic cup competition like most of the other countries, the Football League Cup should be optional or exactly just for the Football League, then there would not be all this whingeing.

  3. Pearce is an idiot. The Germans have a winter break so Ozil and the others were fresh for the World Cup.

    The U21s are there to create full international players. Once you become a full international there’s no need to go back.

  4. As an Arsenal fan, i dont want Wilshere to overwork. But i can understand his sentiments. I think Wenger, eventually, will have to give him a month’s break when the next season begins. The problem is that this will happen till he’s not 21yrs old, which means for another 2yrs.

  5. The sad thing is that the biggest loser on this matter would be Jack. Yes Arsenal will miss him for about a quarter of the season. However, the midfield is so crowded right now that Jack might struggle to make the 1st eleven (especially since he will be a bit jaded)when he does return with the likes of Lansbury, Diaby, Ramsey and Denilson’s replacement (Frimpong, Couqelin or a new signing).

    Really sad for a player making great progress at the moment.

  6. Wayne Rooney never played U21 football for England. He played for the senior national team since 2003 when he was 17. Now that’s 4 years of U21 football that her could’ve played, why was he never called up to gain “experience”? Did England just fail to qualify for any competition between 2003 and 2007?

  7. wenger should not have to rest a player whos wages are payed by arsenal because they are selected to play for both senior and u21 national team and come back burnt out against his will

    and its disgusting how arsenal pay the wages but they dont have a say in how there own players are used, we just get them back injured and left to deal with it (V.persie ring a bell)

    and no matter what u idiots think and comparing players to jack, the only other player that has been in his position is theo and we all know that story

    not a.young not milner or any other player has been a fisrt team player for there club and for country in the senior and u21s

  8. Go on Jack, play for Pearce – he was a loser and has never really won anything special.

    What will happen is the same thing that happens to most English players. They think they are better than they are, know more than their elders and can drink more than they can stand.

    Jack, you will end up being worthless and will be sold by Arsenal – ask Bentley. He is a prime example.

  9. im not completely happy with him going but as wonka said resting him at the start of the season may benefit ramsey as he’l get more games surely. hence catching up on the yr he missed. think i’l be pissed off for the rest of my life about that. if i ever see whorecross ima pique him like im on a bus.

  10. What Jack wants is irrelevant, of course he wants to play. Every player wants to play in every game. But it’s not up to him, he doesn’t pick the team.

    The comparisons to the German U21s are complete hogwash for a number of reasons. First of all, like Walter has pointed out, none of those German U21 players were established in the senior German team. Not Ozil or anybody else was pulled BACK into the U21 side to help them win that trophy as they are doing with Wilshere.

    Secondly, and Wenger has said this today, the German players had not played as much football as Wilshere has in the season prior to the U21 Championships, who has now reached 50 matches against Man Utd.

    And finally, there is also the winter break in Germany which has a huge impact on player fitness and fatigue at the end of the season.

    So in short, the biggest talent this country has produced in years, a regular for club and country in his debut season, is going to be forced to play in a youth tournament of little meaning because Stuart Pearce wants to look like a big boy who makes his own decisions, even if it means putting the future of a world class player in danger.

  11. The whole issue isn’t even about Wilshere, it’s about Pearce wanting to get one over on Wenger, that’s it. Wilshere wasn’t even particularly successful during his time for the U21s as Pearce’s brand of physical and direct football largely bypassed Jack’s creative talents. Pearce doesn’t need Wilshere and he’s very unlikely to build the U21 side around him.

    If Wilshere doesn’t get a proper rest this summer, then he won’t be getting one for another 2 years. He will have played three full club seasons with two international tournaments in between by the age of 21.

  12. From Wikipedia:

    He (Mezut Ozil) made his debut for the Germany national football team during a friendly match against Norway on 11 February 2009.

    So what you said about him not being a full international is lies, Walter.

    Will you please check your facts in future?

    You are writing to order and you distort the facts to fit your agenda.

    Change your ways, faux referee………..

  13. Manuel Neuer did what Arsene Wenger thinks is unacceptable and played for the senior squad prior to the 2009 U21 tournament.

    From Wikipedia:
    ‘After progressing through the youth teams, Neuer made his U-21 debut on 15 August 2006 against the Netherlands. He won the 2009 UEFA European Under-21 Football Championship with the Germany national under-21 football team in Sweden and kept a clean sheet in the final against England.[6]

    Neuer was called-up on 19 May 2009 to the senior Germany squad for a tour of Asia.[7] He made his debut on this tour in a match against United Arab Emirates on 2 June.’

    So clearly the Germans do exactly what Arsene Wenger says induces injuries.

    Except there is no evidence that with them that it did……

  14. @Rhys Jaggar
    There was just ONE match in 2009 when Ozil did play for the senior team. He is used as substitute on 78 min. So there is no difference if we talk about tiredness. There is no difference absolutely.

  15. @Rhys Jaggar
    About Neuer:
    I think this is absolutely incorrect to compare tiredness GK and MF.

  16. If England really want to learn from Germany, they would kick out the likes of Terry, Lampard, Gerrard etc, and build a side based on youth. Germany did that after the 2002 World Cup where they reached the final. The essentially played a youth team in the senior set up, and accelerated their growth. Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Mertesacker, Podolski were all very young when they were playing for the senior team, and Germany’s recent success has come with these same players as the core.

  17. Anyone who thinks that Pearce is thinking about anyone except Pearce is living in cloud cuckoo land.

  18. Rhys,
    He had played 12 minutes in the first team. He came on as a substitute.

    And this was partially done to make sure that after he had given his word and had said he would play nor Germany and not for Turkey (which he could have done still) and by putting him on the field (even for just one second) they made sure he could never change his mind and decide otherwise and still prefer Turkey above Germany.

    And like someone else said about Neurer: a keeper can play 100 games in a season I think. They are a totaly different player compared to a midfielder

    Other players like Kedhira and Boateng also made their debut for the senior manschafft after the U21 championship.

  19. This does not require rocket science. Why must Stuart Pearce select Wiltshere again? There are so many other players out there that need the exposure. Jack has already made the cut so he should be left out of it.
    I’m surprised the way folks here have come up with comparison with some other players and even with a GK. To other countries, England would have become a laughing stock. This explains exactly why nothing has been won in the past how many years now? If they know to count for Arsenal then the counting should go round.

  20. Walter – good article, only if we can tweet this or send it to Pearce so he can make the best decision for Wilshere and England! Sadly, don’t think he cares about the future of either!

    @Rhys Jagger – Manuel Neuer played for only the under-21 teams until 2009. After that time he only played for the senior team since he was no longer eligible for the under 21s! He only played for 1 country team! And when he called up in 2009 to the senior team, he was 3rd choice keeper until Robert Enke’s death (Nov 09) and 2nd until Adler’s injury (from your wikipedia)

    Maybe you should as you said “stop writing to order and distort the facts to fit your agenda”

    Why should Arsenal have to rest one of their full time players when they pay the wages? We did that this year with Van Persie and Fabregas due to the World Cup (understandable). If Wilshere is to play in the under 21 tournament, fine, don’t call him up in the summer for the senior team also!

    And those going against Wenger and supporting England on this, better not be the same ones complaining if we lose points while resting Jack at the beginning or end of next year! (for instance if Cesc and RVP played the first game against Liverpool and we won, we could potentially have been only 1 point back on Sunday if Chelsea wins) Points in the beginning of the year are just as important as points at the end!

  21. @Walter, Phil: On Wilshere’s impending burn-out, I think there’s an additional – no so selfless – factor at work here that you ought to mention: which is the probability of an extended pre-season. That is, the recent business decision by the club to extend the Brand (Walter) and up the revenues by playing in Asia, perhaps America. And Wilshere is now a major part of the Brand (Walter). I’m not sure, yet, but it seems set in motion. Now these revenues would also mean we’d stay in the Championship League (right Phil?, along with the ticket rise) or else, if I get your drift, become less than a true world football power. I love this team as you do. But I think you are both moving into a danger zone in starting to speak of it in terms of The Brand unto which all sacrifice can be justified – reasonable prices and, now, let’s be honest, a different use for Wilshere (for the Brand) which can be as much a part of the impending burnout as the machinations of Pearce-Capello. I’d be delighted to be wrong here, but whereas I am 1,000 per cent on side with UA on the Bent-Ref Probability, I cannot go with Brandism that is starting to creep into your position on ticket prices and, I fear, may be ducking the question of Arsenal’s own forthcoming over-exposure of Wilcox in order to build our appeal overseas as a World Class Brand. I think there is a thin but very real line – even in this world, the “realism” that people prattle on about – between loving a team and being seduced by a Brand. Please consider as this is being offered with admiration and support for all of UA’s other missions.

  22. p.s. sorry, in the first sentence above, I meant: an additional “not-so-selfless” factor.

  23. Shard, Walter,
    Sorry for the off-topic discussion; I have given the details about the seven games in the comments at that article page.I see that you people have not seen it.

  24. Arsene Wenger is 100% right on this issue. Pearce is a bullying idiot who knows very little about coaching players. If Wenger says the player has hit a wall and needs a rest-why does this idiot not listen? Pearce’s self-interest will undermine England’s progress in the qualifiers. However it is Arsenal and Arsenal fans who will suffer the most when Wilshere does not have a proper pre-season.

  25. @Rhys Jagger,
    I can’t believe you completely missed the point! The U-21 tournament is fine for players who MAY have played once or twice for the senior team, but aren’t regular players, so they could use some more playing time to impress the bosses and break into the senior team.

    Wilshere is not only a regular but one of the most important players. He shouldn’t be playing in a meaningless youth tournament.

  26. I just can’t believe that people are saying “it’s ok, we’ll just rest him for the first few months of the season” as if that makes everything ok. Why the hell should Arsenal who pay his wages be forced to cope without him for a few months when he’s a key member of the team. Good point about Rooney, there would’ve been an outcry if he’d been called up for U-21 internationals when he was already a key member of the full England squad at 18. People would’ve said what’s the point so why is this any different. The difference is that Pearce wouldn’t dare insult Ferguson like he’s insulted AW. Ferguson would get a few more of his senior England players to retire from international football, Rio for example.

  27. @Naren

    Thanks. I saw it. It was a big help. I still think that the club is doing good by its fans in that regard. As do you I think.

  28. With regards to the U21s, you’ve got to frame the question to what benefits the U21s team. Is it better for Pearce to run Wilshere into the ground and have a chance of winning the tournament? Or is it better to rest him and lose the tournament? Think it’s pretty easy to see which way Pearce is going to favour.

    The other question is why are WE running Wilshere into the ground? Wenger’s said that Wilshere’s hit the wall already. So why are we still playing him in matches when the Premier League title is effectively out of our hands? Why not give him a couple of week off to protect him against injuries in close-of-season? We could always play Denilson in that position to give him more experience.

  29. I think it would be great for Jack to go to the under 21’s. Being also an England supporter and taking a long term view, he should play for the under 21’s and develop with the under 21’s then when he is no longer under 21, he should then progress to the senior level. This should be the case anyway.

    A major benefit to Jack and England are at under 21 level he would gain years of experience competing against Internationals whom he will be playing against for the rest of his career and his bond with the other England players of his generation will be much better. England senior side should have to wait, sorry!!

    This also benefits Arsenal as he is only playing in one National team this way.

  30. @stuart

    If he weren’t being picked by the senior team then there wouldn’t be a problem. But the fact is he is being picked and played by the senior England team. To put him back to under 21s makes no sense, neither for him, nor for some other young midfielder who’s spot Jack will take in the U21s. Both will lose out, and through them so will England. And if you are only talking about his age guiding selections then he’s still eligible for the U19s I think. So why should even the U21s select him?

  31. @ Shard

    I fully understand, I just feel that England are shooting themselves in the foot here by playing him out of his age group.

  32. @Stuart, Do you really think that going from playing alongside the likes of Fabregas, Nasri, Song, and Van Persie, against the likes of Messi, Xavi, Drogba, Essien to being relegated to playing alongside the likes of Marc Albrighton, Jordan Henderson, Conor Wickham against a bunch of nobodies?

    Seriously, Jack has cemented his place in Arsenal’s midfield, one of the top teams in the world – a team that always qualifies and does well in the Champions League.

    And it’s not just Wilshere, Andy Carroll could have easily been the top goalscorer in the league this season had he not got injured. I wonder what the Liverpool fans will think if Carroll gets injured playing for the under 21’s in a useless tournament.

  33. As I am a engalnd fan as well, I don’t think there should be particular problem with Wilshere playing for under 21. Even if he has been selected for senior squad, he still has time to become first team regular. At most he has played 200 mins totally for seniors and should be under 1000 national min for the national team (u21+snrs). Thats not much if you look at other players playing for their countries(I rem RVP clocking 1200 some time back this season and he looks anything than burnt out). Its just that he is playing for different teams.

    I donot agree with the time of the tournament though. Summer break is very crucial for the players. Hopefully Jack deals with this successfully.

  34. I actually dont think he is ready to be a full international and the decision to try and put him in the core of the England setup is still pre-mature. I hope that he learns a lot while in the tournament and i feel that he should work on his shooting if he wants to become a better player. This tournament will be good for him and his development but he could definitely use the rest. The only thing i fear is an early England exit in the tournament could put undue pressure on him, but like walter said, best of luck to u Jack

Comments are closed.