Lost a battle, the war is still in our hands

By Walter Broeckx

The last person I wanted to see ruled out for this fixture was Per Mertesacker. Alas he was sick and the same happened to Rosicky. Both out with a virus. I don’t know if it affected other players also but we looked a bit flat.

Maybe there was another reason to it. European football.  Because if we look at the results from the other teams who played European football this midweek we see that Tottenham, Manchester City lost games they shouldn’t lose. Certainly if they would consider themselves as title contenders. Swansea only managed a draw against Stoke.  And yesterday Chelsea bought themselves a point when Marinner gave them a ridiculous penalty for a last second dive from Ramires.

The same Marinner who didn’t allow any Fergie time at Old Trafford by the way. Strange that he had a word in the outcome of 3 ‘title contenders’ their game this weekend.

A little word about the ref. He didn’t have to do big things. But I noticed on at least 3 occasions that he was very quick to give phantom fouls against Arsenal players when United came under heavy pressure in the second half. It helped United every time to come out of the pressure we put them under.

So all the teams that lost points played in midweek in the European competitions.  We looked a bit tired was my view on things and maybe having one day less rest was vital after having had two tough fixtures in the week before this game.  But even then we managed to do all what was needed and played a decent game.

The only bad thing is that because of missing Per Mertesacker we lost the defender that covers the area from where United scored.  Apart from one other shot from Rooney in the second half the only time United came close to scoring a goal.

If we look at the stats we had 60% possession. We had 10 shots on goal and United had 5. And both teams only managed to have two shots on target.  United had 5 corners and we had 6 corners.  So we weren’t bad. We just made one error and that cost us the game.  And as the legs weren’t as fresh as usual we just missed that little something to turn the game around.

So we lost a PL for the last time since March. And as in that period after losing at Tottenham we have an international break. Just as we did after that game in March.  So now the thing we have to do is to take a rest (maybe Per and Tomas can give the virus to the other players so they have to stay home this week and have time to recover).   And then come back and do what we did after our last PL away defeat: go on a new run.

Given the other results the defeat is hurting but not as much as it might have hurt if the other ‘big’ teams would have won their game. Now the only teams that come back a bit are Liverpool and Manchester United. And of course our next opponent: Southampton.

And by then I hope we have a lot more options. We can hope that Walcott will be back by then and that would give us some extra speed to work with. Something we lacked today until we brought on Gnabry. And by then Per and Rosicky will be healed from their virus of course. And I hope some of our players will have had a good rest with not too many minutes playing for their national team. (Like I said visit Per before you go to your national team)

As things stand now after 11 games we are still top of the league.  We have played 3 top teams :MU, Liverpool and Tottenham and won 2 and lost one.  But more importantly we have shown that we are more than capable of beating the other teams in the league. And that is what we should continue doing starting on November 23 when the surprise of the season comes to visit us.

So let us take it on the chin and move on. They might have won a battle today but we are still holding the better cards in the long term war that the PL is. They are still 5 points behind us. Now is not the time to panic.

Now is the time to find new resources and new energy and maybe get some players back when the seasons starts again. This is football and you can’t win all the time even though that would be nice of course. Let us just get behind the players and give them a helping hand when they come back out of the tunnel for our next game in some 14 days time.

152 Replies to “Lost a battle, the war is still in our hands”

  1. Am not feeling sad except at the result. Am proud of our overall performance. And am not feeling down or anything negative.
    i just hope our players have the same feelings so they bounce back, and i believe they do. Maybe we didnt create that much shots on goals as we always do, but the fight is just unbelievable, we missed it in last seasons before. They dont stop running, and ohhhh Giroud, WTF, this man u can go to war with, did all his best to get back, this am proud of having in a team i love.
    Even our defense were great, except for that set piece, didnt feel Verm was nothing but world class on the bench.
    Ramsey wasnt as fresh as he used to be, but he never stopped, cazorla, kos, sagna, arteta,and all…. They are tried, just luck wasnt on our side, am not talking about the shots, am talking about subs being injured, we missed Rosicky and Podolski today, chamerlain, walcot,.. and u can go on from there.

    Maybe Arsenal should buy 40 players so that we can have a full team for once, or maybe then 25 will be injured 😀

  2. I’m on the same page with you here Walter. I was disappointed in Ozil & Cazorla’s performance and their inability to really influence the game in a manner that would have enabled us to get that crucial goal. Whilst we battled hard and gave as good as we got our X-Factor was missing. You have to earn the right to play and we didn’t do that enough today. However, the team will learn from this and the players will fully understand the task ahead if we are to maintain top spot.

  3. @RedandDread
    Although i agree with you on this, the rest of the team battled, else it may have been more. I guess they were tired, at least, more tired as when they had the full week, all in all the whole match seems scripted somehow. Wonder if the “gods” are having some fun with us?
    Could not find fault with any other players, but we did miss Mertesacker, and Rosicky, who would have allowed some more steel, they must have eaten at the same restaurant? What are they, poorly?
    Anyway, spirits up, it was predestined, but why why against Manu, ah well, revenge put back on the burner til later.
    Watch us go on a rampage now when players come back.

  4. My wishes for the future…
    1.Gibbs realises he has a right foot and in time it becomes as good as his left.
    2. Giroud becomes as good on the ground as he is in the air.
    3. Arsene buys a genuine striker in the January sales. We cannot continue with only Bendtner as our No.2 in that position.

  5. Manu were nothing special but the difference is they have RVP and we have Giroud. Selling RVP to that lot is one mistake Wenger is going to be paying for for some years it seems.

    We need to beat them at the Emirates, we have to stamp our authority on them when it matters.

    Anyway we better put Southampton to the sword to regain our momentum.

  6. Rupert
    Yes you are right, when u say they have Van persie. But would you put Giroud in it? He played his heart out have some respect for one who respect your team badge. Van persie is world class and he did win them the game, but you dont have to dig back for that story and we all know he wanted to leave, so stop it man. Be a gooner and not a winner for a while, have some pride with your team, manager and players, they deserve this.

  7. @Nicky, totally agree. It’s utterly depressing seeing the ineffectual Bendtner anywhere near our club. This is a man who admitted he wanted away and yet we have to cling onto him because we’ve got no other options. A club of our stature is made to look second rate by this stupid situation. The good players who want away we can’t keep but the dead ordinary ones who want away we can’t shift.

  8. @Yassin, I’ve already said that Giroud works hard and is a good link up player when we’re attacking so I’m not disrespecting him but he’s just not a world class striker and the team needs one. Too much is expected of Giroud and Bendtner is not proper back up. If we don’t get an effective striker in January we’ll probably slip away in the league.

    RVP should have been made to see out his contract and so what if he went on a free this year. No other top club in England sells their best player to a rival. See how Pool hung on to Suarez, that’s the attitude we need at Arsenal. The irony is that the reason RVP went to Manu was because of Fergie and Manu’s ambition and this season it’s us who showed ambition by getting Ozil and we’re top of the league. I wonder if RVP would have been so desperate to leave if we’d not sold him.

    I am a Gooner and you want me to be not a winner for a while? Well we’ve been doing that non winning thing for 8 years, I’m tired of it and I suspect Wenger is too otherwise he wouldn’t be splashing out on Ozil. This is a great season for us to steal the title from all those billionaire clubs and Manu, it would be a damn shame if we miss out because we lack one or two world class additions.

  9. Agree with the article Walter, tough loss, but we have to move and get on another good run like we have. The team still holds their destiny in their hands, all we can do is support them to hopefully reach that destiny which is the PL title!

  10. Am not saying you are wrong, Rupert, i agree with you we need a striker, and i wont mind a world class who will help Giroud, and take some pressure off his shoulders, and Ivan said it earlier. Am just saying why put his name in the same sentence with RVP, its the way you said it. Yes i agree with you RVP is world class, but have some pride man, and say we dont need him, we need one who is better than he is. And we need to show him he was wrong in belitteling our club and players.

    I know your are a gooner, or i wouldnt be arguing you, just sometimes, like today, i believe we should forget about winning and have a look at how the team fought. Yes we missed something, and in another time, we may have finished todays game with 3pts. Circumstances dictated we lose, and i agree, we didnt have the backup striker we needed today. I still wait podolskis return, when the hell is he conung back? AHA

  11. Wenger has been beaten again by the same old tactics at OT.Fergie or Moyes,doesn’t matter, Wenger clearly cannot adapt at all.
    Wenger just gave the confidence boost Moyes and ManUre needed with his complacency. This was a game Wenger should have prepared the team properly but his poor selection and tactics showed otherwise. I won’t be surprised if ManUre finish above Arsenal, especially if Wenger chooses to ignore the glaring problems the team has and doesn’t buy good players in January. Based on past seasons this will likely happen.
    Bendtner…Wenger should have brought Gnabry before that donkey. The fact the Danish striker is still playing for Arsenal just shows the level of Wenger’s mismanagement.
    The league is so winnible this season but it seems Wenger can’t capitalise on the lack of stability among Arsenal rivals.

  12. @Rupert Cook
    Three ‘contributions’ as soon as we lose. How predictable.

    Good points, Walter. Just read Arsene Wenger’s post-match press conference. He said the referee made several wrong decisions, but he wouldn’t specify further as statements cost money and he needed his money to buy Christmas presents.

    Anyway, we could easily at least have drawn and in that respect were unlucky. On to the next match!

  13. Sperez,
    you are wasting your time over here with your rants. You will not convert anyone.

    and instead of wasting your time you should contact Mr. Gazidis and give him your wisdom. And add Kroenke also of course. I think they will both be very interested in knowing what a great keyboard-manager you are.

    So offer yourself for the job to replace Wenger and to lead us to glory. And no need to come back until you got the job.

    Oh and you might check the league table if you want. How on earth are we still top with all that rubbish at our club and a clueless manager.

  14. And weren’t you the one praising Mourinho on top of the world after they won the league cup match a week ago?
    Since then they lost to Newcastle and to WBA. In my universe of fair refs they lost that game 😉

    So it that is the level of your knowledge and wisdom…

  15. Looks like I’m going to be the minority dissenter when I say it’s not the result that’s disappointing but the effort. Going to OT and not showing up in the first half is unacceptable to me.

    After a string of bad results against Man U in all competitions not the least of which was the 8-2 beating we took two years ago, this was our golden chance to get back at them.

    With the number one referee manipulator retired and Wenger having the winningest record against Moyes in the Premier League ,this was a once in a season chance to put them out of the title race.

    Wenger said he felt sorry for his players. Why ? I ask.
    There were no bad refereeing decisions to tilt the game.
    No unlucky bounces of the ball.

    Just two teams facing one another and Man U wanted it more than us.
    It couldn’t be down to fatigue . Not when we came to life and dominated the second half.

    When you go into OT , you have to be ready to play from minute one.
    Yes , some passes might’ve gone astray because of nervousness , but do you know what is a good cure for nervousness ?, hard running.

    Man United looked liked the champions in the first half and we looked like pretenders afraid to put them to the sword.

    They closed us down all over the pitch . When we played through the middle , their wide players converged on us and when we played on wings , their central midfielders helped out on the wings.

    Rooney was a beast throughout the 93 minutes and Phil Jones was for me the man of the match.

    Sagna was for me our best player with a number of telling crosses nobody had enough grit to get at the end of.
    Giroud looked tired and frustrated and Bendtner , well the less said about him the better.
    Gnabry should’ve started instead of Flamini who didn’t look match fit .

    Zonal marking defending corners is fine as long you don’t allow attackers a 15 yard run up .

    There’s a time and place for back heel flicks and cute no look passes and there’s time for the old fashion hard pressing and in your face defending.

    There are lessons to be learnt from this and I hope we learn them quickly because we’ve just let Man U back into the title race.

  16. A vital week beat Liverpool ,a jaded team lost to utd and were unlucky to do so but we beat a far superior team to utd mid week. Things have changed we were a long way off our best but utd still had to park the bus for much of the game that team is going nowhere fast. Still we are top of the league injured players to return a new striker in jan others dropped points and spurs are really really shite that’s why so many desperate spuds causing trouble on gooner forums this eve

  17. It’s time to lay off Nicklas and give younger players a chance don’t you think? Unfortunately he’s nothing but a liability and i’d rather have 10 men squad

  18. So much for knowing a thing or two about football. 3 tough games in 8 days. If you really want to know why we lost, why our players looked tired, go watch that game against Dortmund. That highly technical game took a lot out of the lads.

    Rooney can be beast for the entire 93 minutes, he didn’t have to do that mid week. They also faced Fulham last weekend. I am not making any excuses but I can understand. We still did a good job containing Man U. Only unfortunate RVP scores from a corner.

    We have players coming back from injury. I hope if we don’t have more injuries from the international break we would go on another good run.

  19. As we reflect on our players’ effort we would be wise to remember that in the last 8 days we played Liverpool, Dortmund, and United. And our players gave an astounding account of themselves despite this loss to United.

  20. Looks like the haters found a new scapegoat. It’s Nik’s fault that we lost the game, right you wHiners? Ffs, it’s easy to criticize when you’re sitting comfortably on a couch.

    I wished a victory as much as anyone, but 3 tough fixtures in a week leave traces, and it was predictable that the more rested team will have an advantage. Add to that the ref who was discreet in his bent interpretation of the rules (well, two interpretations, one for each team) and it becomes clear that it was going to be tough to get a result out of this one match. Looking at the bigger picture, this game’s significance is blown out of proportion by the rivalry between the two clubs, and the result means actually little given the others have dropped points too this weekend, as so many have already pointed out. The team fights, and that’s the biggest positive. We just need to help them by giving them all the support we can – and that applies to everybody.

  21. Florian
    Nick didn’t help us in any way, do you have any evidence of the contrary
    every pass he did was misplaced, every ball he touched was lost, every chance he had he wasted
    wtf was going on when he was stuck into Smalling after brilliant Gnabry pass, what did he think when he passed back from penalty spot in the cup game?

  22. @Osita
    I suppose if you were Wenger you would review the Dortmund game on Monday and not Man U .
    No one is saying we didn’t have a difficult 8 days but to ignore mistakes we might’ve made during the game because we were tired is no way to improve ourselves.

    Sometimes you can learn more from a defeat than a victory if we are serious about winning it all ( as I think we are).

    No one is hating on anyone here( except sperez maybe), and I think Rooney played mid week too.

  23. Basically we lost because we didn’t finish off the opportunities we worked to obtain over the 93 minutes. RVP, as hated as he is, DOES finish off opportunities as he did for us when fit. Those who lament his ¨disloyalty¨ at celebrating his winning goal are living in a delusional world where they think he still cares about the Arsenal. I hate to break it to you but he is PAID and OWNED by United and rightfully is playing to help them win….so he’s just doing his job.
    It is the same old story….if we lose, it is because of one or two players or the manager being clueless or tactically naive, yet we were neck and neck with them all game and had we started the first half with the same confidence and vigour we showed in the 2nd half, we’d have surely taken at least a point. Mertesacker and Rosicky were two key players for us all week and their absence unbalanced the team seriously. As well, Ozil, Cazorla and Flamini had average games….something on any other day against any lesser opposition, would have gone relatively unpunished and maybe unnoticed.
    You armchair generals, who know a pittance about Football in general and management in particular should consider trying to keep a balanced view rather than Sperezing out like some spastic morons.


    that was a wonderful football game today, IMO. arsenal got worked on two setpieces (the second of which was in the 2nd half, a wonderful ball in from rooney i believe set the table perfectly) otherwise when you consider that mertesacker wasn’t out there i think you have to give high marks to the defense for not really allowing united that many proper chances in open play.

    with the exception of the city/fulham games, united has played up/down to its competition for better or worse this year. today they stepped up and played some spirited defense that allowed arsenal to have a proper kickabout that more often than not resulted in an overzealous pass going back to united. it wasn’t as drastic as it was for the first ~60′ against dortmund (where whenever arsenal got the ball in dortmund’s half the players seemed to literally shit themselves all “OMFG I HAVE THE BALL WHAT DO I DO?!?! I KNOW MAKE A CLEVER PASS”) and once again arsenal picked up the pace in the 2nd half and had some much better chances (i seem to remember a couple’a wonderful balls in from sagna alongside a couple of good opportunities from open play) although in the end arsenal couldn’t finish, which means an 0-1 result is about as good as you can expect the team to do, especially when RvP goes out and has a wonderful header like that (it’s on ramsey for not properly marking him and then gibbs whiffed on the last line of defense gig because i dont think he could fathom a header coming in from that wide angle)

    so yeah, if there’s any silver lining to be had tonight it’s that city/spurs/chelsea all dropped points (and chelsea should have dropped all 3) which means that the scousers are 2pts back and everyone else is at least 4/+ points back, which you can live with going into the international break. it’s nigh time for everyone to offer proper sacrifices to the football/injury gods to ensure that arsenal doesn’t lose another 2-3 players on this international break (as i don’t think we’ve had one where we didn’t lose SOMEBODY for at least a game or two right after the break)

    and, no doubt, it’s also time to regroup and find some offensive touch because i don’t think arsenal was outclassed off of the field. they didn’t look as listless as they did against dortmund til rooney’s breakthrough @ 63’…. they just got their collective offensive asses handed to them by a united squad that, as the punditry no doubt pointed out afterwards, played with enough urgency to hold on for a gritty 1-0 victory. my hat’s off to them, as they deserved the points today because both teams played to a veritable standstill and if not for that fabulous header by RvP there’s a very real chance we’d have seen a 0-0 draw today.

    tl;dr = the offense still has plenty of room to develop, otherwise this wasn’t exactly the most disheartening of losses to suffer. if arsenal can get healthy down the stretch and improve their finishing alongside the kind of effort they put out today, i reckon they’ll be able to hang around the top of the EPL for awhile… and that’s gonna be a key thing to do cuz it certainly looks like the scousers are into bumslaying this year (another ho-hum 4-0 game this wknd) which means one of the usual suspects would be out of the CL next year, and holy shit i don’t wanna watch football on thursdays =(

    hey now one more silver lining for the road…. arsenal got a combined 7pts against the top-6 teams last year. this year they’ve gotten 6/9 points. in the immortal words of walter sobchak “all is not fk’d here dude”

  25. oh yeah, i also wanna toss out some props for jack coming on and playing like a man possessed today. down the stretch he was out there busting his arse trying to do something/ANYTHING to get arsenal on the scoreboard, albeit to no avail.

    this is the first time all season where arsenal’s injuries/lack-of-depth really caught up with them. missing theo/rosicky/poldi/ox/any-non-bendtner-striker was potentially the difference between scoring and not, cuz if you’re gonna hold united to one goal on a fabulous(ly correctable) header, shoot, if you had a goal or two in you i reckon you’re leaving with points today. moyes wasn’t gonna try and put on massive pressure for a 2nd goal in the 2nd half, he was gonna look to park the bus

  26. Oleg,

    Nik was inches away from nicking the ball into the net from Sagna’s cross. He was unlucky not to score. He is certainly not the sharpest striker in the squad, but he had limited playing time in the last months, and it shows. Do you think he isn’t doing his best to raise his game? If he didn’t, I think Arsene would have dropped him from the squad by now.

  27. Oh, and spare us your read-only programming language skills, that demonstrate only arrogance since what you attempt to do is show off your knowledge in a domain that has nothing to do with football.

  28. So we failed in our big big big big big test…..Let the doomsday scaremongers have a field day. Only “-ve” thing that we can take from this defeat is, we’ll have to digest Sperezs tosh for 2 full weeks…….hell this is going to be hard.

    May be we showed them wee bit more respect than they deserved in the first half, but this is a defeat in which we came back victorious. If Moyes and his camp had any high hopes about their quality and chances, well they should revise it now.

    AWAY GOONERS wonderful again…..

  29. What does the average fan know about football?
    Only what he thinks he sees at the game and what he is told to believe by others more ignorant than himself.

    With no real football for nearly two weeks its time to put out the lights and go to sleep.

    Good night everyone.

    PS Don’t forget to set the alarm to be ready for 3pm Saturday 23rd.


  30. Good performance by the team,unlucky not to get something out of this game. Perhaps our first half performance,particularly the first 20 minutes where we seemed to give them the ball, were distorted by the errors the ref made. I posted during the game that it was only 3 minutes into the game but I’d already seen 3 errors from the ref. One of them was an incorrect corner (he later awarded them another one incorrectly) so that created an impression utd were putting us under pressure when that necessarily might not have been the case. Yes, that would have put us under pressure, but was not utd’s pressure, rather brought about by the ref’s wrong calls. Pressure is everything, like Walter pointed out, the ref also incorrectly blew for fouls that gave utd some breathing space when we put them under sone sustained pressure. I do suspect though he’d have made some big calls against us had utd not been leading. But overall, I think Moyes has more to worry about than us after that match.

  31. Actually, to be honest, no harm done. We lost game at OT and that’s all. I see nothing bad in losing from ManU. In a fact this defeat only harmed our ego, but not chances of wining league. Same as wining this game would not improve our chances and would only retain our ego flying high.
    It happens now and than team to lose game, it just has to happen, it is football and that’s why we love it. After 49 games came 50th, but that is sport. Is this proof that Arsenal cant win big games? Maybe, if we consider Liverpool, Dortmund and Tottenham as less big ones.
    Lads were tired and, we have to admit, covered very good at first half. Second half we were better, but too tired to make anything from it. Our defensive unit performed well, even without Per, almost we didn’t even notice his absence, and only problem was our motor, which was obviously left out of fuel after two very hard weeks.

    I am glad RvP was celebrating after scoring goal. To me his “not celebrating” goals against us means nothing. Crap which stink less is still crap, so I really don’t care, still prefer to flush it.

  32. Also I don’t quite understand why we have to be critical all the time. I have seen Santi & Ozil mentioned as disappointing, lets not forget these the same guys that gave us fabulous wins against pool and dortmund. To be honest, imo noone was really going to shine for Arsenal as we didn’t have any space to run into. Even Theo would not have been as effective with his pace simply because we were camped in the utd half for pretty much all of the second half. Chances to get behind the defence of a team that is parking the bus are always at a premium.

    It is disappointing actually as you’d expect games between top teams to be more open with a lot of attacking intent, like the Liverpool game. Chelsea play like that as well(park the bus & hit you on the break) so playing them will always be a little difficult. Think City-Arsenal will be a cracking match though.

  33. A team with spirit but more like the “old arsenal” than the one we used to see recently.

    They work hard but could not get their acts together. The midfield aren’t creating and dominating. Putting Ozil and Carzola to the two flanks has problems at times. We need Walcott and Poldi back quickly so the team has one creative on a flank while a direct player on the other.

    The back does not perform well without the big German even with Flamini and Arteta offering extra cover from the middle. We certainly like to get another striker but I would rather buy a top CB. Sell Vermaelen if he wants to go and a club pays a descent a mount of money but deep down I prefer to keep him for a while longer. He fails to work with Koz as usual. I don’t understand the reason but that’s just the way. He is not young anymore so the potential to develop is more limited. He cannot pick up his form a year from his injury.

    Anyway, I haven’t find a good reason to explain why Vermaelen has this issue but then its a fact that he is not up to the level and his potential.

  34. I just wish that N.B would have 3 straight starts in order for him to regain his confidence. We can always bring on Giroud if required. We just cannot continue with only 1 fit CF.Squad rotation is an art by itself.

  35. A sad day that the so called mighty utd are reduced to Sam allardyce tactics that’s pretty much what they did. Certainly not Nike fault but if interview anything to go by his attitude has been disappointing. Best for nick to get on I am sure we are in advanced talks for at least a loan striker or utility forward in jan. We really need wide players back for busparkers like Chelsea and utd

  36. Just three minutes of added time ?????
    Scezny injury stop I give it at least 2 min.
    Vidic injury stop I give it at least two minutes.

    Five minutes should be correct.

  37. I agree we maybe need forward, or better, we needed one last night to help Giroud. But do we have to buy one with Poldi on bench? Once fit he will strugle to find place in squad, we will have Santi, TheO, Aaron, Jack, Poldi, Ox, Sanogo, all strugling to find place in squad. So we will have another “Vermaeln case” maybe. Hardly you can buy player much better than Poldi without to promise him to be first choice, and than you have to decide what to do with Giroud and Podloski (and Sanogo).

    And about rotation, well yes rotation is important, but hardly anyone would rotate anything in 3 games in row which are Liverpool, Dortmund, ManU. There is no space for gamble in such games.

  38. I was disappointed with Ozils performance , especialy in the opening minutes when utd put us under pressure he frequently lost the ball when we got possession , also there was a knock down from giroud inside 15 mins and it basically hit ozil in the face, ozil was not even ready to receive it. You should be ready for a knock down especialy the way giroud plays… just look at ramsey in the last match. If only we had taken the lead at tht time we wouldve atleast stuck out for a 1-0 .And Flamteta doesnt work without rosicky, he was badly missed . After replacing flamini , our passing was so much better.

  39. …its sad that Arsenal fans always have to find a scapegoat, the amount of players who go through this at one time or another is amazing. Arsenal supporters? Arsenal critics!
    I recall Theo scoring against Spurs, and at that time had been the latest in a series of scapegoats, and you could see that his celebration was more “up yours” than anything else.Many fans of other teams seem to stand by their players much more than we do.Lets face it even if we lost, its been a long time that we even statistically were better than Manure at the Old Toilet.
    If think in Bendtners case he hasnt really had much of a chance to get things going and his confidence is low, so if you play with that frame of mind, then youre too conscious of every ball you play or go for- its tough. Its not easy to prove yourself when you come into a game at the end, especially when we were starting to feel a little desperate and at Old Toilet where its an intense atmosphere.
    All Bendtners newspaper headlines are just a bluff as anyone with half a mind knows, hes just trying to bully himself up. TV5 was also really under-confident yesterday and look as shaky as the first games when Per came into play. Remember it wasnt long ago that he was the defender that everyone loved…with sky-high confidence, but he will grow again with every game he plays.
    Luckily Wengers pretty good at working with humans rather than believing that hes watching some daft computer game version of football!-even if they are paid a load of cash.I personally thought Wengers summary of the game was spot on.
    Its all very well bemoaning VP being sold to a rival, but we didnt moan when Pat Jennings or Sol Campbell came to us!I thought Visible Panty was in fact a bit quiet most of the game.His post goal celebrations showed he isnt an Arsenal man anymore, and that its over and done with, in the same way that Manures version of “Viera etc” as a song is way out of date, even if Giggs is clinging onto his career by the finger nails.
    I think that Mandy got it right when she wrote that we looked jaded-we did,it was a tough week- although for much of the second half we looked like we in control. I still think that we suffer psychologically in a way that other teams dont at OT, but we will learn.
    Its funny that Nicky wrote about Gibbs and his left foot, yesterday as he was attacking in the second half, he cut a lovely ball inside with his right foot, so he must have been listening to your previous comments! I think that Gibbs is also really missing the link up with Poldi, those two made for a very strong left hand side-the same with Theo on the right and Sagna, but the Ozzler has made up for that.
    Finally even if its speculation, I still think that if we would have squeezed a goal in the last ten minutes Manure would have fallen apart, and we could have pipped them. They were very vary of us as the first half showed but couldnt sustain in the second. But in the end we lost, but we’re still top of the league.And we have a great team that bond really well, and a great manager.

  40. ala Spurez (or is is Sperez?) I heard ‘fans’ ringing 606 to condemn AW for his selection. Do these people actually follow the game? Wilshere is recovering form an injury and clearly does not have 90 mins in him (esp not in a big game); Rosicky and Per were sick, Gnabry likewise. Ox, Theo, Pod, Sanago, Diaby all injured. Just who WOULD they have selected? The other options on the bench were Hayden, Fabianski, Jenks and Akpom.
    answers on a postcard Sperez, from somewhere a very long way away if you please

  41. I really don’t understand the mindset of all you posters who are coming on here giving your expert opinions on who did or didn’t do what and why. In the good old days before you amateur managers had access to computers it was just accepted that sometimes a team played a game and suffered a slight drop in form. Form and performances fluctuate for goodness sake, why do you amateur experts have to pick over the bones and find fault with all and sundry. He should have done this, why didn’t Wenger do that, it gets on my nerves. We didn’t play quite to our best for various reasons, can’t we just leave it at that.
    Oh and by the way RVP’s super header was actually off his shoulder, so a large slice of luck involved there.

  42. @AL – interesting to see a bit more detail about the ref’s performance.
    Yes, let’s not attack individuals in the team. It’s not productive or supportive, and it’s not very nice.
    When Man U has to park the bus on their own ground, it does say something.

  43. Beside, this year, after each defeat we have added new dimension and get even stronger. So, we are getting next game wiser, and I really hope with stronger squad, as I really hope at least Theo will be back in next two weeks, if not Poldi and Sanogo. And we are still on top, so, no harm done.

  44. @Pat, yes and there were plenty of contributions when we won too so don’t talk nonsense. And I was hardly scathing either. We won’t win every game and Manu have got us sussed at OT. We have to beat them at home to put them back in their place.

  45. @Yassin, I’d love us to find a better striker than RVP but that’ll be hard in January. In fact it’ll be hard whenever and to do so will probably cost us a fortune unless Wenger can find another Henry.

    There’s no doubt some of our better players were below par but you can’t expect them to be on form every game. There was a bug roaming around the team and for all we know Ozil and Cazorla may have had either the beginnings of it or be just getting over it. Still Manu got their tactics just right as Chelsea did the week before. Not fun to watch but effective against us. We need to learn how to break strong defences down, passing sideways ad infinitum is not the answer. We also seem to lack a great game changer of the stature of Rooney or RVP. I thought Ozil was that player but maybe not. Ramsey seems the best to step up for that job.

  46. @Rupert,

    Ramsey does look like that player who can grab the game by the neck. And Wilshere too. But lets give them time to develop into that role….

    People crying death over our defeat at OT are the very people who dint expect us to get more than 3 points from this 3 games.

  47. Alex – 3mins of added time – completely agree with you, especially as we were threatening towards the end. But the 4th official and injury timekeeper was Marriner, the Villa fan who stitched up West Brom against Chelsea this weekend. This ref needs watching very very closely.
    Strange – even what would be considered sites and posters that have been considered AAA are strangely philosophical about this one – I am sure the sick bug went further than reported, that was one of our poorest performances, key players were played out of position but 70% and the champions were reduced to playing like Bolton from a few years back. If this is all Moyes can do, they are one club we will certainly finish above this season, they will not always get away with performances like that against the better teams, mainly because their defence is not good enough

  48. I heard 606 too. I don’t know if it is an age thing but I always thought being a supporter meant you followed your club through good and bad times. There are some pretty vitriolic Arsenal fans out there. We beat Liverpool and Dortmund away, top the PL table and were a tad unlucky yesterday but the Wenger out crowd are in voice again. I don’t get it. Although it is galling to lose to Man Utd,there was nothing between the teams despite being clearly below our best. I thought we looked leggy. I heard fans criticising our defence, probably because they get everything from the media, but they seem ignorant of the fact that the RVP goal was the first we had conceded against the so called big tests. From Bayern away last season to Napoli, Dortmund, Spurs, Liverpool – all clean sheets.

    Our supposed superior rivals are dropping points to teams that they should really be doing better against, meanwhile we are winning those games. We have players coming back from injury. We have a great chance of doing something this season and yesterday was just a minor blip.

  49. Trouble is, phoneins like 606 often cherry pick to an agenda and get the extremists, the kneejerkers, the armchair media fed fans whose spectrum of opinion is formed by Adrian Durham , MOTD and The Sun….or other fans in disguise…

  50. True Va Cong, he has been a bit more reasonable this season, but maybe he has gone back to old ways?

  51. If bentner had scored that would have shut people instead I have to listen to Wayne chav Rooney we are amazing the worlds greatest punch face talk out of his arse or is that his face?

  52. Perspective, all about perspective.

    City lost to a relegation candidate.
    Spurs lost at home to Newcastle.
    Chelsea? Well its clear how lucky it was to get a point at home.

    We just had one of the 3-4 games in the season you do not expect to get points from, took a tired and illness-ravaged* side and still ran them close.

    I’m not exactly happy, but the wheels haven’t come off, and I can live with that.

    *Again, Perspective.

    We had the BFG missing, who if nothing else would have been covering the area the Dutchman scored from. Rosicky who would have (I think) come from the bench as first sub. (Bendtner wouldn’t have been on the pitch at all.)

    Arteta played despite being ill, Gnabry was also marked as ill before the game, which may suggest why he was a last ditch substitution.

    More, news this morning suggests that Özil is struggling to make the Germany squad with the same bug, so how well was he yesterday?

    At that point, you begin to wonder about the rest of the squad.

  53. Comparing this season points so far
    Team/ points should have according to dectech predictor/ actual points/ difference/ whole season points prediction

    MC 22,05 19 -3,05 74
    Arsenal 20,96 25 +4,04 73
    Chelsea 20,97 21 +0,03 73
    MU 20,28 20 -0,28 70
    Tottenham 21,13 20 -1,13 69
    Liverpool 19,98 23 3,02 66
    Everton 17,97 20 +2,03 63

  54. By the way, am I the only one that gets a warm feeling that United fans are celebrating that they are *only* 5 points behind us.

  55. Apparently the players had flu jabs last week, can only go on experience, but has the jab once and soon after, got the worst cold / flu I had ever had! These guys are fine tuned athletes, strangely such specimens can have less immunity to such things than others – athletes can be very delicate – just google all the virus type illness the likes of Coe, Cram and Ovett picked up during their years.
    But as we know these bugs can spread massively to those in close proximity, as the Spuds found to their cost, despite wrongly initially blaming the lasagne chef. Wenger has too much class to make such excuses, but you can be almost certain this spread further amongst the team than reported, and any stage of these ailments would seriously hinder a pro sportsman in such a game. Think Ozil had a similar thing a few weeks ago.
    Have a feeling this game was just one of those things

  56. missing rosicky was crucial,he has become a key component of our high pressing game otherwise a clinical finish from united’s striker made the difference..dare i say arsenal need a lethal striker?

  57. ProudGooner1963
    November 11, 2013 at 11:54 am
    Proud wrote:
    ‘I heard 606 too. I don’t know if it is an age thing but I always thought being a supporter meant you followed your club through good and bad times.’

    I agree with you.
    I was listening to 606 last week

    One caller came on and after bewailing his team’s defeat he informed us that Arsenal are a poor team because I quote ‘They’ve got no width.’

    If it wasn’t so sad you could laugh. For him it gets worse.

    He was making his point on a day when his team were beaten 6 – 0 In contrast Arsenal had beaten Liverpool 2-0 And he comes on the radio to inform us that Arsene doesn’t know what he’s doing!

    He continued:
    ‘I have been a supporter of Norwich 40 year, and I know what I am talking about!’ I thought in other words ‘take that Arsenal’

    Vanity has no superior than one’s opinion of one’s self.

  58. Just seen on the website of the DFB (German FA) that Mertesacker and ÖZIL have the flu and are not expected to travel to meetingpoint in Munich tomorrow.

    So that will be enough to explain the pale performance from Özil yesterday. I can imagine that players want to play even when not feeling 100% fit but certainly in games when you need to be 100% fit it shows of course and you get pale performances.

    I think the players will have been hugging each other too much after the win in Dortmund.

    I noticed at the time that Per Mertesacker when interviewed for the ZDF was coughing and looked as if he had trouble speaking like one does when one has a sore throat. But didn’t make much of it, just thought it was from being exhausted

  59. Agree completely. We lost the battle, but we can win the war. No reason to be discouraged with that. The first half was poor. Wenger blamed nervousness, and I think Sagna is saying something similar about how we didn’t play. The nerves may be to do with the occasion, the missing players, the fatigue, or all of the above. Probably the last.

    I would be a lot more disappointed if we didn’t play in the second half like we did. We made up for the poor first half showing I think. As for RVP. Yes he’s a world class striker, but how did he prove that yesterday exactly? All he did was score a lucky loopy headed/shouldered shot. The type of goal Grant Holt might score while stuffing himself full of pies. It’s a story with some human interest to make it about RVP punishing Arsenal but meh.. He didn’t really terrorise our defense or anything. He just scored from a corner.

    All in all, I think we can be encouraged by this. Just as long as we also learn from it.

    I do agree however, that Bendtner isn’t taking his chances. I’d rather Akpom or Sanogo get in ahead of him. They might get more things done simply through their excitement and having the freedom of not having to resurrect a plummeting career. Yesterday was exactly the sort of game where you thought, we could do with a striker.

    But then you also think that Podolski is on his way back. He really could have helped yesterday. His shots from range, as well as his finishing ability, both are amazing. If his link up play improves, he could be a real weapon. So, we’ll see where we are in January, as regards who to buy. FOr now, we sit on top, looking down at ManU celebrating. That in itself is progress. Let’s get all our players to give Per a hug and a kiss, rest up during the internationals, and hopefully get some of the injured players back.

  60. This game was just a blip in the master plan to continually improve. Staying on top of the league is a nice consequence.

  61. If more had flu than reported, can only praise them for doing their best and especially the second half performance, but this is a committed bunch of players. Just hope a few of them get a bit of a break over the next couple of weeks, but unfortunately not the French guys

  62. Wheres my old mate Brickfields?- wherever you are we’re missing your jokes and wisdom to perk us Untolders up!

  63. I keep getting the message ‘duplicate comment…’ so I go and edit it so the system think its a different comment, re-post and same thing happens again. And there are no links in the post…..

  64. Trying to chop it into two parts…..

    Glad that the doomers aren’t out in full force as I initially feared. I just don’t understand the concept of saying so and so had a poor game today though. Yes they may have had, we are human after all and each and every one of us has an off day. So even if there had not been a bug going around in our dressing room I still wouldn’t point out below-par performances, not very helpful as players aren’t impervious to our criticisms. And they DO read these comments. I think it’s not really coincidence that we have had players that came over to the Ems with big reputations and high expectations from everyone, but were pale shadows of their former selves by the time they left(Arshavin, Gervinho, Chamakh, Eboue to a certain extent). I certainly don’t want to see Carzola or Ozil in that bracket, but it can happen if we don’t lay off criticising, they’re human. I have noticed this is becoming a trend even in games that we win convincingly, someone still gets singled out.
    That said, I think we have become very demanding of our team; a team that is half fit (from bugs & exhaustion) & missing several key players, and goes to OT and plays utd off the park, manages double their shots, and still gets labelled as having underperformed!

  65. Kenneth,
    Brickfields lives in Malaysia (not that far from the Philippines) so maybe communication in that part of the world is not as usual for the moment?

    But sure miss him a lot for the moment

  66. Been trying to post the second part unsuccessfully for the last 15 minutes or so. And it’s even shorter than the first part – thought length may have had something to do with it. Think there’s a bug, not the one in the arsenal dressing room, but regarding posts.

  67. I give up. And Walter/Tony, if these comments have been getting through to you sorry, weren’t trying to spam you. But I was basically saying I too saw the ball come off van pansy’s shoulder, and not his head. It was a fluky goal at best, nothing brilliant about it. I dislike the guy even more after his celebration, and at the moment can’t decide who is worse; him or adebayor. But what I know is he’ll never be given the respect other arsenal players from his era who left get when they come back to the Ems(TH14, Sol, Eboue, Cesc, etc)

  68. Hi Walter, thats a terrible situation in the Philippines, sure puts everything into perspective, a game of football is really nothing.
    Hopefully Brickfields will be with us soon!

  69. Bootoomee
    Shame really, as you end up saying something else other than the actual stuff you wanted to say in the first place. I wish this bug affected sperez only and left the likes of us alone:) Later man.

  70. I did not get the three points I wanted out of the game but what I did get was the answer to the question everyone is asking. Yes we are genuine contenders and on our day we can beat anyone
    And the reaction and relief of the mancs (players) says it all they were really worried and there elation at there narrow victory speaks volumes

  71. All,
    I notice some having problems with some comments not coming online. I will try to take this up with someone from the hosting company as Tony is out this week… Hope we can fix it

  72. After having calmed down and looking at the whole picture, i agree with Al, maybe we are over demanding, or maybe we are scared, too scared, to not lose the title this year, cause of the media pressure.
    Today i was thinking, we played united, in their ground, after huge matches, bossed the game, and deserved a draw at least. What do we want else? The team fought like hell? What else do we want, they got that first goal they needed and stayed at the back, if it was the other way around, things could have been much different.
    And now after reading that it wasnt a header from a traitor, but a lucky shoulder. And that Ozil was having a bug too, i ask? What do we want more? From the team except to fight. If Ozil really had the bug, then fair play to him for not giving up and asking Wenger to subistute him.
    They are last year champions, come on lets get over this game. We are gonna lose one day, and the important thing is to bounce back, and the only way that can be, is by giving all support to the team, and keeping their confidence high. And its your job Emirates fans, we depend on your voices.

  73. Yes Van Persie is world class, and maybe better than our Giroud. But would anyone trade his own brother for an enemy just cause he is better. Stop comparing them together, I ll take Giroud, who respect, and play with all his heart for this club, than RVP, who insulted us and left us when we really needed him.

    Aftet that celebration, its a war, a fight, a challenge between us and RVP. We should put him he

  74. I won’t be at the Southampton match because all the tickets were sold out. But I will be at the Hull match, and I promise to shout my head off.

  75. Aftet that celebration, its a war, a fight, a challenge between us and RVP. We should put him where he belong, in the spot he deserves, its not about winning for Arsenal, its about raising the flag and carrying the badge.

  76. Thanks Pat for your support, its your type that can use this positive moments to change the Emirates into a fortress.

    This time am gonna remind all that its been 8 years since….bla bla bla
    But really what other fans can take all that plus media stupidity and still see the big pictures. I found this blog through the top 10 Arsenal blogs, and all are not negative and know they have to wait. What am saying is we have the best fans in the world, and the most passionate. Our fans just need to reunite back and be morw vocal and show they are literally the best fans in the world.

  77. Unfortunately yes, we lost this particular battle, but the war is not over and not lost. We are still in a good position with an excellent and still improving squad.

    In many respects we were a better team than the manures, we need to realise that and keep our confidence.

    The goal celebration by van Pursey was in very bad taste, but really in keeping with the way he manoeuvred himself out of the club. Yes, he is a good player but totally without honour and character wise is a disgrace.

    With a return of our injured, or slight squad strengthening I am confident we will stuff the despicable manures next time.

  78. Mandy
    the more other English players who pick up a bug, the better??
    I recommend the lasangna.

  79. To the people slagging of Bentner’s performance yesterday.
    FFS he was hardly match sharp, if he had a bit more confidence and game time he might just get the extra couple of inches to be on the end of those crossers.
    look at Gerv in Roma, now he is away from the dooming negativity.

    I find it amazing that people forget we have Podolski, Theo and the Ox coming back.
    If Arsenal buy another striker – where is he going to fit in?

    Mind you, I’m getting fed up watching Plodders have the life of Reiley while he is on the injury list.

  80. And he’s back !I was a bit down with the loss ,Kenneth , Walter and guys .So here goes ..

    *Bonding with Mom-In-Law*

    A group of young women decided to arrange for a camp with their mothers-in-laws to hopefully get to know and understand each other better since relations between them were very sour.

    Two buses were hired, one for the mothers-in-law and the other for the daughters-in-law. Unfortunately the bus the mothers-in-law were travelling in was involved in an accident and all the passengers died on the spot. The daughters in law (women being women) shed a few tears but they were all puzzled by one woman who wailed uncontrollably for what they perceived to be her loss.

    Her friend asked her, “Forgive me for asking but why are you crying so hard, I didn’t realize you were so close to your mother-in-law?” to which she replied,
    “No we are not close at all, she missed the bus!”

  81. Only I would have invited the AAAAs on that trip (and ‘fixed’ the brakes !) and would have been inconsolable if our personal favourites were to have missed the bus !

  82. In praise of cunning linguists …..

    King Arthur’s Dilemma

    King Arthur was about to embark on a long crusade. Before doing so he called to Merlin to devise a cunning chastity belt for Gwenivere. The belt contained a miniture guillotine.
    Upon his return, he called to his Knights of the Round Table and had them all strip from the waist down. One by one, he went to each knight and shook his head, telling all those whose members were missing to get out of his sight.
    That is until he came up to Lancelot. Seeing that Lancelot was intact, he exclaimed, ”Now I knew I could count on you to be trusted. Name anything at all and it is yours.”
    Lancelot replied ” UNGH!UH! UNGH!”’

  83. You guess is good as mine…..


    Two medical students were walking along the street when they saw an old man walking with his legs spread apart. He was stiff-legged and walking slowly.

    One student said to his friend: “I’m sure that poor old man has Peltry Syndrome. Those people walk just like that.”

    The other student says: “No, I don’t think so. The old man surely has Zovitzki Syndrome. He walks slowly and his legs are apart just as we learned in class.”

    Since they couldn’t agree they decided to ask the old man. They approached him and one of the students said to him:

    “We’re medical students and couldn’t help but notice the way you walk, but we couldn’t agree on the syndrome you might have. Could you tell us what it is?”

    The old man said, “I’ll tell you, but first you tell me what you two fine medical students think.”

    The first student said, “I think its Peltry Syndrome.”

    The old man said, “You thought……. But you are wrong.”

    The other student said, “I think you have Zovitzki Syndrome.”

    The old man said, “You thought……. But you are wrong.”

    So they asked him, “Well, old timer, what do you have?”

    The old man said, “I thought it was a Fart…….. …………. But I was wrong, too!”

  84. Lost in translation….

    A woman was in a coma following a car accident. Although her injuries had healed, she’d stayed in the coma for months, giving no response.

    The nurses were in her room giving her a sponge bath.
    One of them was washing her private area and noticed that there was a slight response on the monitor when she touched her. They tried it again and sure enough there was sizable movement.
    They went to the doctor and told him.
    The doctor went to her husband and explained what had happened, telling him, “As crazy as this sounds, maybe a little oral sex will do the trick and bring her out of the coma.”
    The husband was skeptical, but was assured that they’d close the curtains round the bed for privacy.
    The husband finally agreed and went into his wife’s room.
    After a few minutes, alarms went off – the woman’s monitor had flat lined, pulse, no heart rate.
    The nurses ran back into the room. “What happened!?” they cried.
    The husband said, “I’m not sure, I think she might have choked.

  85. Brickfields, glad youre back, and certainly made me laugh this morning!

  86. @Al, do you really think players read comments on here and if they do they are upset? I really hope we have stronger mentalities playing for us. I expect men to take criticism on board if it’s fair, if it isn’t then ignore it. The players aren’t schoolboys. If players repeatedly put in poor performances you don’t go and pat them on the back. As it is the majority of our players have not deserved any criticism with the exception of Bendtner. Yes some have been below par occasionally but they’re not robots and can’t be expected to be performing at 100% all the time.

    As for RVP’s celebration I don’t see the problem. Manu pay his wages and he hasn’t played for us for over a year. He wants to play for a trophy-grabbing team and he’s got his wish; only problem is that Fergie and the Dutchman that enticed him to Manu have now left and his team are straggling behind us. The best way to pay him back is for him to witness us finishing above Manu in May.

  87. @ Kenneth – Thanks , glad you enjoyed them; this one is a medical take on the King Arthur joke.
    A lady went to the hospital for lower abdominal surgery and during the procedure ,the doctor inadvertently left a scalpel inside.
    She came back after a month and complained to her doctor that
    four of her ‘casual ‘ friends had been circumcised and two new acquaintances had the tips of their index fingers snipped off !

  88. I’m with rupert on one thing though. The RVP celebration. He’s already proved himself an ungrateful, classless twit. Whether he celebrates or not, doesn’t really change that. If anything, this reaction is better than the mock respect that is shown by not celebrating (It’s still a celebration if you puff out your chest and then make a show off not doing anything) So I have no problem with it at all.

    But honestly. Does anyone think RVP hates Arsenal? He has no reason to. He was well supported by the club and the manager. He was given a great career and nurtured to the level where he is at now. So why then does he behave that way since he left? He’s hugged SAF in a twisted repeat of the hug he gave Wenger. He’s been hugging Arsenal players in the tunnel, but then baiting them with a shirt swap and kicking Sagna’s ankles because he didn’t hug him back. He’s celebrated wildly (even when he’s not) scoring against us. Does this seem like the antics of a man who’s at peace with himself and what he did, or of someone who’s doing all he can to justify his decision? Most of all to himself.

  89. Shard,

    I am a bit at loss at the point that you trying to make and this is very rare for you. RvP is in the past for me as a Gooner. He is dead to me, as the saying goes. I agree with you on the irrelevance of his celebration to us as Arsenal fans. What I find funny about him is his indignation when Adebayor acted in a similar manner 4 years ago in his last relevant showing for Man City.

    About him hating or not hating Arsenal (this is where you lost me), we can never tell as none of us can see into his heart. But based on how he has conducted himself (put side by side with another ex-Gunner like Fabregas), he has been classless. I can say that one for sure.

  90. Bootoomee

    My point wasn’t that RVP hasn’t been classless. I also agree that he is largely irrelevant. But it seems we are not irrelevant to him, the way he keeps on behaving. Which actually shouldn’t be the case since having ‘proven’ he made the ‘right decision’, he should be better able to move on. That he seemingly hasn’t, suggests that he’s not completely at peace with what he did. He still did it though, and that’s what makes him a so and so. It’s just interesting.

  91. I really couldn’t care less will he or will he not celebrate if score. Only thing that hurt is that he celebrated and not Giroud.
    Someone mentioned Manu is team which pays his salary so … there where his loyalty lays.
    Beside … we would still be singing “she said no, Robin” no matter how he behaved, so does it really matter?

  92. Armin

    I actually don’t like that we sing that song. Apart from the fact that rape isn’t something to be reduced to banter, it is hypocritical and probably self defeating of us to mock RVP for something that he was accused of when he was at Arsenal, who stood by him.

  93. Oh and yes… Last thing I want now is to be RvP advocate, but lets admit, we didn’t split friendly. There were some “hard words” mostly from our side.
    Yes Robin is hypocrite and unbelievable asshole for leaving club. But there is one big but, would you behave different after it when supporters sing “she said no, Robin”, and all less or more offensive.
    Again, I hate him as much as rest of us, but I also understand hi loves him self more than he loves us, so why should he respect us in way we don’t respect him. First two goals he did not celebrate, this one he does … Fair enough for me.

  94. To say it in Dutch so he can understand it: “Van Persie kan mijn rug op”

    It wouldn’t have made any difference for the league table if it would have been Rooney that scored that goal.

    In fact I find it great to know that he will be just a minor line in the Arsenal history and that he will never be considered as a legend. Not at Arsenal but the funny thing: not at United either.
    Once he stops playing he will be forgotten. Unlike real legends both at Arsenal and United. Real Legends like TA, DB, TH and for United players like Giggs (classless sister in law fucker so typical United cheating legend 🙂 )

    He will be remembered for what he is: a classless mercenary.

    And the funny thing is that for now he will not regret it, but later when he stops…then he will look at the statues outside and then he will realise: I could have been out there. You will not be there, Robin.
    Your statue is being prepared to be erected in the liars and hypocrites Museum.

  95. Yes Walter, that’s exactly what I thought first moment he left. I was thinking he exchanged Premier League champions medal for statue cast in bronze. If I would have choice, my choice would be second one. But ok, he rather chose to be Solskjaer.

  96. BTW Armin, nice to have you back as you also have gone missing a while ago if I haven’t been mistaken? But noticed you came back a few weeks ago to Untold.

  97. Walter, I cant remember exactly, but there were some really good striker he was quite good… maybe as good as… heck I forgot his name.. do you remember our player from Holland? Remember him? Had one good season with us and one with Manure? 🙂

  98. In football terms speaking, I was sidelined for almost year with my spine injury. I could only type with my nose… but it is hard to do it , so I was silent 🙂

  99. @Rupert Cook
    I’m fairly certain no Arsenal players or Wenger himself come on social media to read comments about their performances especially after a defeat and I find it amusing that any form of critique dished out by posters on this site is often met with a backlash from some who consider it a personal attack on our club.

    Some of us may know more about football than others but that doesn’t mean one man’s opinion is more valuable than the next. Exchanging of points of view between fans is what makes football fun.

    I would much rather read a specific comment pertaining to player performance or manager ‘s choice of tactics even if I may hold a diametrically opposing view, than a generic comment like “let the manager and the club do their job because they know better how to run the club” , Daaa.

    No one is saying we could do a better job ( not even sperez) running the club but surely some of as can see management making mistakes every now and then like maybe selling RVP to Man U.

    Let’s suppose Wenger knew Arsenal weren’t going to be competitive last year so gifting Man U the title ( which that’s what it was) might’ve not seem like a huge deal but surely he was planning on competing for the title this year and the next , right?

    Now , we may never know what clubs offered what for RVP and if selling him to Juventus was an option but from where I’m sitting, granted its a couple of thousand miles away, selling him to Man City would’ve been a better option for Arsenal FC.
    The competition for places at the striker position at M C would’ve limited RVP playing time and thus caused us less of a long term harm.

    Seeing RVP celebrate against us and hug Rooney and Ferguson hurts me less than hearing Wenger say to Ferguson “he’s better than you think” and calling RVP an Arsenal player for ever.

  100. Where do I start really…. Rupert(&Tom) you say players don’t read any comments on social media, really? Didn’t Arsene come out saying to a reporter there’s a site that publishes tables without referees’ mistakes only 3 or 4 days ago? Don’t you think he was referring to blogs such as this one, debatable decisions, etc? Well, I certainly believe if Arsene can read blogs, so will players who seem to be tweeting every-time they’re not on the pitch. Regarding not criticising players unnecessarily, I have noticed a tendency of picking on at least one player who is deemed as not having performed to their best of abilities after each and every game, win or lose. What kind of encouragement is that? There are days of course when certain players will underperform and cost the team, yes that can be criticised, but to single a player out from each match, even when the team played well is counter-productive. I think its the AAA doing their thing subtly. We have had players I mentioned above who lost their confidence completely, and I have no doubt most of this is down to unfair criticisms from our own boo boys. Players can ignore being criticized by rival fans, but not by their own.

    As for van pansy I say good riddance, the guy has no class. I just wish they had gouged each other’s eyes out when he last met Ade at the Etihad four years ago.

  101. I don’t think for one moment Arsene wanted to sell that revolting player to manure. The revolting player wanted to go there and then and Arsene being Arsene decided he had no choice but give him his wish.

    I agree that he will never be a legend here or in manureland – a one off player at the end of the line. He will just be a leg end.

  102. Just to clarify on the AAA bit, it is the usually the same individuals who single players out for under performing. Even if we beat southampton 4-1 in a couple of weeks’ time, the same people will be here saying I don’t think Ramsey, Theo, or Santi, etc. etc., brought their A-game on today. Why? Can’t you just be bloody happy at winning 4-1 without looking for any negatives? Like someone already said on here, if your comments mirror 99.9% those of the AAA, don’t be surprised if we put you in the same bracket with the AAA.

  103. Ok, granted AW made the mistake of selling van pansy(who wanted to go anyway, and only to utd for that matter, as coolario just reminded us), why should we keep hearing about this. IMO we have let bigger players go, but they never subjected us to any of this shyte we are taking from this prat. The only other player I can think of who did the exact same thing(agitating for a move, bamouth us and then celebrate as if they had won the jackpot after scoring against us) is that Togolese inbred, and that tells you all you need to know about that skunk. The only surprise is the dutch skunk was actually offended by Adebayor’s goal celebrations at the time.

  104. @Al
    From a former player perspective let me assure you that no player will go into a comment section of a blog to find out what some stranger might think of his performance( mine included)

    Players will glance at headlines and might read articles they can expect to be positive about their performances but they will never read anything negative. That’s what every manager would’ve told them from early on in their career .

    Stating after a game that a player X looked tired or had an off day isn’t picking on them and it’s a far cry from booing them during games.

    Saying after a game that a different formation might’ve worked better against certain opponents isn’t equal to saying Wenger doesn’t do tactics and should be fired.

    Walter and Tony know the value of dissent and that’s why they haven’t banned sperez (yet), or maybe they want the extra traffic and clicks his angry comments generate( I haven’t decided which)
    But if they ever decide to ban all others who don’t follow your idea of supporting our club( it had been suggested ) , the comment section might look something like this

    Referee baaad, ! Arsenal goood!

  105. Tom,

    You are an ex player? Now you are making stuff up 🙂 A good manager would not tell his players to only read positive news about themselves. Rather than introduce them to sycophancy, he would advise them to seek balance of information. Take encouragement from praises and learn from criticisms. I’m not an ex player but I am a grown up and a professional; that is how we reason.

    If you disagree with the slant of Untold as much as you complain, spend more time time on blogs where you can rub mind with people of similar outlook. The mission of this blog is boldly displayed. I’m here because I believe in what it’s all about. You are not going to change anybody’s mind here about how to view or support Arsenal.

    BTW, Walter and Tony only ban abusive or plaigiarising posters. Publication of comment does not imply acceptance of opinion. And it’s mighty nice of you to impugn their magnanimity by doubting if it is due to hunger for clicks.

    For a johnny come lately, your summation of what Untold would look like without your ‘dissent’ is hilarious. I have seen many ‘dissenters’ come and gone since I started following Untold in 2009.

  106. Tom
    I’m not sure from which playing era you’re from, but I think you are wrong to assume players will ignore what is in the comments section and only focus on the headline. If one reads an article, negative or positive, they will always want to know if the readers agree with what the writer of the article is saying, so naturally they take a peek at the comments section. Maybe they don’t spend as much time as you and I in that section, buy they do look. Isn’t it only recently where Rooney had an argument with a fan on Twitter & offered to arrange a fight not so long ago. That fan could well have been saying Rooney had sucked in a game against so and so. And anyway, contrary to what you state as learned from personal experiences, I could actually argue that an ex-player like yourself spending so much time on here is evidence that players past and present are keen to know what people are saying out there.

    Players pay attention to what fans say, be it what is being sung on the terraces in the heat of the game, or in the media. Besides they know that their lives are under constant scrutiny from the media, so I think you will find they’re more keen to know what people are saying about them in the media than you and I. I’m not saying a player will come on here and read one comment from me or you comment and go OMG, everyone thinks I’m rubbish. The thing is if a few people do it on this blog, the message will be carried on from here to other sites/blogs and vice-versa. Before you know it, the internet is abuzz with talk that this player is under-performing. Lets not have the I-cant-change-the-internet-alone mentality, you do your bit, and hope everyone else does their bit.

    I know debating is healthy, and I quite like that. But I’m sure those that have been called to be banned are trolls. There’s a big difference between a difference in opinion and trolling. As been pointed out already, your last line is a bit insulting, hope you said that in jest.

  107. Tom,
    I wonder if you were Ramsey and last season you would read a tweet aimed at yourself saying: ‘I hope you get killed in a bus crash’ or… ‘I hope Shawcross breaks your leg again and you will never play again’.

    Tweets aimed at the player himself in person… by own fans… (or pretenders..)

    Sure is nice for any player to read such things…

  108. Tom
    Thanks for taking the time to talk down to us.
    Really appreciated, mate.

    and won’t be forgotten.

  109. It is not nice if this negativity gets back to the player. It is not encouraging and does not make him play better. The opposite in fact. An educator encourages the positive rather than beating a person up about the negative.

    And in any case, it seems obvious that our players themselves are on a constant search to improve themselves and the team. As is the manager and the coaching team.

    There is an added dimension. It has been seen that if a particular player is criticized it spreads. From blog to blog and from person to person – people are influenced by what they read other people saying.

    Ramsey is a good example. It spread so far that it got to shouts at him while he was playing. And this negativity spread far round the ground, spoiling the atmosphere in matches. And so this affected the rest of the team as well, and their performance.

    We should be grateful that Ramsey himself was strong, and that he was supported by a loyal manager and team mates and coaching team, who saw that he was still a good player.

    But the truth is not everyone is that strong and some people fell by the wayside. And some of them could have been good players for us as well.

    So who did it help?

  110. @ Bootoomee
    “A good manager would not tell his players to only read positive news about themselves…. He would advise them to seek balance of information…. take encouragement from praises and learn from criticism ” That’s what grown ups do ,you say.
    If only you knew how naive you sound.

    For starters , pundit or fan opinion isn’t news and footballers aren’t trying to solve the problem of global warming, so they don’t need a balance of information on a subject.

    A good manager, in fact, even not so good manager would tell his players to precisely ignore any negativity from media, fans or elsewhere and focus on what he needs them to be focusing on at the time.

    Players will seek out flattering headlines but will at all cost avoid negative ones.

    I played with players who were considered top professionals and who insisted on wearing their lucky underwear inside out for important games and if they were interrupted during their pre game ritual , they thought they couldn’t perform at their best that day .

    Try and square that away with your perception of a grown up and a professional.
    I don’t suppose you have a pair of lucky underwear you need to bring to work to be at your best , do you?

  111. @Al
    Last thing first. Yes , I was joking and if you didn’t find my attempt at humor funny then I apologize . I didn’t mean to insult you Al .

    I played professionally in Poland and Greece in late 80s and early to mid 90 s, so you are absolutely correct about player exposure to social media nowadays that wasn’t there before .

    What stayed the same however is managerial approach to protecting the players from negative influence from outside of the locker room and the human nature that dictates players avoid negative publicity on their own ( most of them anyways).
    Take care .

  112. @Walter
    The example you cite is a very unfortunate one and We can only pity the individual who would go to such lengths to show what probably is his frustration with himself and not Ramsey.
    I certainly don’t condone it .

    As a matter of fact I never said anything remotely negative about any Arsenal player present or past and the most disparaging remark made by me was probably about Bendtner when I said “the less said about him the better”.

    I’m also against booing during games and shouting offensive remarks at home or away players and managers. I find them cowardly. If I have a problem with someone I say it to their face.
    Take care.

  113. @Double canister.

    It wasn’t my intention to talk down to anybody and if that’s how I came across then my apologies.
    I guess I need to work on my delivery. Take care.

  114. Tom, taking you at face value and you have played at a high level, would be very interesting to hear your thoughts as the games progress, look forward to your contributions

  115. Tom,

    Thanks for feeding us from the wisdom of your experience whether real or imagined. But as I have always told you, you are not even half as smart as you hype yourself to be. Enough with the lectures on how Untold regulars should support Arsenal.

  116. Tom,
    of course I didn’t want to suggest that you said anything of that kind about any Arsenal player.

    But it was said directly (on Twitter) against Ramsey and I can only admire the way he responded to idiots like those who said such things. But not all players can react like that. You need strong legs to overcome not just the broken bones but the abuse as well. Ramsey has showed he can but there are others who cant.

  117. @Walter, I don’t think RVP will care one bit about not having a statue outside the Emirates, he’s got a PL winners medal. RVP is no more mercenary than any other footballer. The majority will go where the pay is highest and success is most likely. People getting upset because he celebrated scoring a goal for his club are being a little disingenuous. What do they expect him to do, apologize?

    Fabregas acted up until he got his move to Barca yet we never hear a bad word about him. Of course he’s yet to score a goal against us. Well if he does in the CL and he celebrates I hope you award him the same level of vitriol you aim at RVP.

    As for comments on social media against players I don’t know what effect it has on them but this is not peculiar to footballers, anyone in the public eye has to deal with unpleasant remarks. A sensible person would ignore inane comments by idiots they don’t know.

  118. @Rupert
    Yes, you are right saying he don’t care. But point is in value. PL winners medal is something what equally share Solskjaer and Rooney, but will anyone remember in 50 years who Solskjaer was?
    And I can imagine bunch of tourists (from some country in which no one really care too much from football) outside of EMS taking picture of Henry, Tony, Denis… They will think for sure “Wow this guys must have been champions”. While RvP medal will remain at his retirement house, where he will show it to buddies who still didn’t start suffering from Dementia. Thats what Walter and I were talking about.

    On the other thing about RvP. I don’t think RvP owe us a thing anymore. Lets admit we never supported Robin van Persie, even in those famous “rape case”. No we supported Arsenal crested red shirt No 10 (or 11 at that time I think). He showed great disrespect to club who stood behind him, and we, well, who care, all we see is shirt and that’s all what matters. On pitch I would support even Satan as long as he is in our colors. So it is time to forget RvP and turn to players who score goals for us and not against us.

  119. Rupert,
    he will regret it one day. 😉 As Armin said.

    I also once won a medal for winning the youth league. But I would swap it for a statue any minute 🙂

    (I can’t even find the damn medal anymore 🙂 🙂 )

  120. @Walter and Armin, there are, sadly, plenty of great Arsenal players of yesteryear that are forgotten, you know the ones that don’t have statues. A new generation comes along and slowly the previous one is forgotten. What does the great Arsenal team of the thirties mean to anyone here, except our resident octogenarian Nicky? There aren’t many tv clips of our legendary thirties team.

    It doesn’t really matter if Solskjaer is remembered or not. He remembers what he did for Manu, that’s all that matters. When he’s dead what will he care if nobody remembers because he’ll be non existent?

    Why will RVP regret it? How do you know how he’ll feel? You’re projecting your feelings onto him. What’s the point of having a statue if all it represents is failure? If RVP had stayed there’d still be no guarantee we’d have won anything and then would he have got a statue? Probably not and no PL medal either. RVP did what most ambitious footballers do, go where he believed the grass is greener. He isn’t the first Arsenal player to do so, he won’t be the last.

    And what false economy it was, selling him. Not very smart. We’re seeing how we lack a world class striker whilst most of our rivals have at least one, if not two.

    People on here are

  121. too sentimental about Arsenal, but we’re all fans so that’s to be expected. The talented footballers usually hunt for glory, someday soon they may come to Arsenal to find it. Ozil seems to be the first.

  122. Rupert, false would be even if we did not sell him. Because this season, nor we would have “world class striker” nor money we got from selling him to Manu.

  123. rupert

    “The talented footballers usually hunt for glory, someday soon they may come to Arsenal to find it. Ozil seems to be the first.”

    Another load of blethering nonsense.

    Ever heard of Henry, Vieira etc?

    Are the present members of our squad not talented?

    Which was it rupert – another silly remark or a sly dig at our team?

  124. @Armin, and how do you know RVP would have wanted to go to Manu at the end of last season? With Ferguson retiring and us beginning to spend the money we have. To replace RVP we’ll most likely have to spend in excess of 40 million so yes it’s a false economy especially if you think what he might have done for us last season.

    People always go on about how much the club did for him and he treated us badly. Really? Maybe it’s cynical but what do you think a club does with a player of that talent? They don’t get rid of him because they know he’s a world class player so they obviously support him through injuries. He’s a huge asset. If it had been Eboue or Squillaci do you think Arsenal would have bothered being patient? Most likely they’d have been shifted out. We’re doing the same with Diaby because he’s a talented player.

    That’s why Pool fought to keep Suarez despite his traitorous nature because he’s a game-changer and you don’t give them away for less than 50 million plus. We lack a game-changer in those big games and we are still ruing the day we sold RVP.

  125. @Rupert
    I don’t think there were option for keeping RvP, as you concluded, he was searching for grass to be greener. We couldn’t offer him grass, all we could is take as much as we can, or let him go for free year after. Yes sAF would maybe retire and RvP would not prefer to play for Moyes, but he would for Ancelotti, Mourinho, Martino, who ever. He didnt say “I want to go to work with Fergie”, he said “I don’t want to stay in Arsenal”.
    Lets not again open old topics and why we left and why he would stay. We all know what is behind it and we know he would not stay no mater how many reinforcements we brought.
    Point is, he decided to leave long before he announced it, and he behaved that way. Remember game with WBA and interview after.
    We may speak hypothetically what could happen and what would happen. If he stayed, maybe, Ramsey would not develop to this level, and what do you prefere player for next ten years (Rambo) or player for next cca 2-3 (RvP). He would maybe stay if we brought Ozil than, but would Arsene brought Ozil? So all we know is that he wanted to leave club, and club decided to rather sell him than to let him go for free.

  126. Fergie wrote (actually boasting about it) that he had the deal sewn up with RvP months before the skunk went to the euros. The grey bastard just played along with the pretences for the summer.
    What galls me is that he made it particularly difficult to see him else where to anyone but united – we offered him to Juve, even City – but the f*cker wouldn’t go.
    Real and barca didn’t need him.
    It was a bit like Bentner refusing to go to Hamburg for less than £50k a week.

  127. Fregis was also more recently boasting that he lied to the skunk that he and his back room team would stay at manure for 3 more years.
    Now skunky has 4 contact years left with Moyses “thats northern football for you” and his caveman training skills.
    too bloody right do i want to see the grey haired quitter suffer.

  128. @Al, I’m well aware of all that but the fact is we didn’t have to let him go because he was on a contract and he may have wanted to stay at the end of last season. You’re talking about the season before that when we sold him. Manu would have bought another striker most likely and then RVP wouldn’t have had his dream move. Who knows how he’d felt about us at the end of last season especially when Ozil was bought. The fact is that we had a nice little pally chat with Fergie and let our star player go to our rivals. Idiotic, even if it may have cost 25 million if we didn’t sell him because keeping him may have just, only just mind you, ensured we won the league. That would be worth more than 25 million in myriad ways. But it’s all supposition anyway.

    @Armin, “we couldn’t offer him grass”, makes us sound like drug dealers, ha ha. Manu offered him heroin.
    And I don’t think keeping RVP would have hampered Ramsey, probably the opposite. Anyway now we need a world class striker, maybe we can buy RVP back if Manu finish fifth.

  129. @ Double canister – nice link .Good thing he didn’t preach fire and brimstone ! And talking of sermons , from the mouths of babes ….

    Little Susie was watching her father, a pastor, write a sermon.
    “How do you know what to say?” she asked.
    “Why, God tells me.”
    “Oh, then why do you keep crossing things out?”

  130. A preacher was completing a temperance sermon: with great expression he said, “If I had all the beer in the world, I’d take it and throw it into the river.”
    We thank you Lord , for what we about to receive….

    With even greater emphasis, he said, “And if I had all the wine in the world, I’d take it and throw it into the river.”

    And then, finally, he said, “And if I had all the whiskey in the world, I’d take it and throw it into the river.” He sat down.

    The song leader then stood very cautiously and announced with a pleasant smile, “For our closing song, let us sing Hymn #365: ‘Shall We Gather At the River.'”

  131. This brought tears to me eyes ….

    The preacher, in his Sunday sermon, used “Forgive Your Enemies” as his subject. After a long sermon, he asked how many were willing to forgive their enemies.
    About half held up their hands. Not satisfied he harangued for another twenty minutes and repeated his question. This time he received a response of about 80 percent.
    Still unsatisfied, he lectured for another 15 minutes and repeated his question. With all thoughts now on Sunday dinner, all responded except one elderly lady in the rear.

    “Mrs. Jones, are you not willing to forgive your enemies?”

    “I don’t have any.”

    “Mrs. Jones, that is very unusual. How old are you?”

    “Ninety three.”

    “Mrs. Jones, please come down in front and tell the congregation how a person can live to be ninety-three, and not have an enemy in the world.”

    The little sweetheart of a lady tottered down the aisle, very slowly turned around and said:

    “It’s easy, I just outlived the bitches.”

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