By Tony Attwood
All goals count. Tap ins, and lobs from inside your own half, they all just count as one goal.
Which is why it is always worth considering the total number of goals your centre forward scores.
But we also know that it takes a bit of time for newly purchased centre forwards to get themselves together with a new team – especially in a new league in a new country. They have to get used to their compatriots style of play, and the way defenders treat them – and perhaps most importantly in England, what the refs let defenders get away with.
Those of us who were there at the time will remember Thierry Henry coming to Arsenal. We’d not heard of him, and instead of playing centre forward he seemed to want to play on the wing. To say there were “doubts” about Henry at first is putting it mildly. Not only did he not score a single goal in his first eight games, his shorts were all over the place, and the joke was he was trying (but failing) to hit the clock.
The press, who had been so seriously shown up for what they were in the confrontation on the steps of Highbury on Wenger’s first day at the club (when Wenger simply dared them to mention “the rumours” and called their bluff), were still out to get him, and they chose Henry as their target.
And of course as the crowd got restless, Henry’s self-belief dipped a bit and he said he he had to “be re-taught everything about the art of striking.”
Fortunately the nay-sayers (who in those days were still to some extent at the matches, rather than just on the blogs) and their ceaseless allies in the media, did not win the battle, and Henry did start scoring.
In 2000/1, his second season at the club, Thierry Henry played in a total of 53 matches, and scored 22 goals. Not a bad return in a second year for a player who was pretty much unknown in England before Arsène Wenger signed him.
Let’s hold that in mind for a moment when thinking of Olivier Giroud who is just completing his second season. He won’t reach Henry’s total of games, for so far this season he has played only 45 games but he has scored 20, which by any statistical analysis is better than Henry. And it could mean that in season number 2 Giroud will score more than Henry in his season 2.
Of course that doesn’t mean that Giroud is a better player than Henry – in terms of what Henry became very few players in the world ever reach that standard. But less we get carried away, in Henry’s second season Arsenal lost 6-1 to Man Utd., and some games were highlighted in the eternally anti-Arsenal press as a “dull stalemate” (Villa v Arsenal – Henry was not even mentioned in reports).
The problem Giroud has is that he has had the sort of poor run that all strikers get sometimes, in the last couple of months, and as we are now used to, in blogs and the media these days, you are only as good as your last match.
But fortunately for Arsenal Wenger is not taken in by such chat. Speaking of Giround recently he said, “He has scored 20 goals. That is a great record and he is working very hard for the team. Maybe he has improved his finishing, but there is still some room for improvement.
“For example, you expect him to score more headers. He wins a lot of headers coming from deep. But the headers coming from wide areas he still has room for improvement.
“For a while, he played maybe too many games but he hasn’t been injured. He’s a strong guy, he can cope with it. Maybe we should have rested him a bit earlier and given him a breather.
“He’s not a guy who moves away from people to get the ball. He’s a guy who fights with people to get the ball. When he comes out of the game he has 50 fights behind him. That is more demanding than the guy who just runs away.”
What Arsenal have done with Giroud is what a lot of teams in Europe have done – played with the same striker throughout. Which means it is hard to keep a second striker happy if he is not going to get much time on the pitch.
The way around this is to have an upcoming player who can fill in on some games, plus a couple of others in the side who can also play centre forward. If, in addition to this you also have a midfielder who can score a lot of goals, then you have the right combination.
For Arsenal the upcoming reserve is of course Sanogo, and next season we can also take a look at Akpom and Campbell. The back ups are Podolski and Walcott, and the midfielder who scores is Ramsey.
The trouble is that if you take both Theo and Aaron out of the equation through long term injuries it looks tougher, which is why we faltered from first position. But the basic arrangements look good to me, especially when one contrasts the Giroud goal scoring with others in the past.
I can’t see why, with a player who can do as well as Henry in season II we need another proven centre forward. Of course I don’t know how well any of the players will do next season, but it looks like a fair assembly of talent to me.
If we were to bring in another goalscorer to replace Giroud next season, and if he were to come from outside the Premier League, then we would have the same problem again – two seasons of adjustment, rather than a being in Season 3 mode, which is a much stronger place to be.
Thierry Henry had first Bergkamp and then Pires as his support team. At the moment Giroud has Ramsey – and from this weekend Ozil once again. Plus let us hope, next season, Theo as well. That will make Giroud even more prolific.
- Hull v Arsenal 20 April 2014 – The Match Officials
- Podolski: winger, striker or…
- As the Independent name Ozil as one of the worst buys of the year…
- I’ve got my Arsenal back
- Instant judgement is not the best way to view football.
- I’ve got my Arsenal back
- Instant judgement is not the best way to view football: we need perspective
- Untold is down, so here’s today’s tale…
- Bob Wilson announces he has prostrate cancer
– See more at: http://www.blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/#sthash.sidGrXoN.dpuf
- I’ve got my Arsenal back
- Instant judgement is not the best way to view football: we need perspective
- Untold is down, so here’s today’s tale…
- Bob Wilson announces he has prostrate cancer
– See more at: http://www.blog.woolwicharsenal.co.uk/#sthash.sidGrXoN.dpuf
Tony, what you say makes perfect sense to me but will not appease the naysayers.
Typo by the way near the start of the article….’Not only did he not score a single goal in his first eight games, his shorts were all over the place,’. I guess you mean ‘his shots’ really don’t you!!
This team is nearly as good as the invincibles, problem is, all the other teams have inproved their play, so this team has to work much harder until it clicks, that moment where each one of them says, “I’m a top class player in a top class team, and a bad game will not dent my confidence anymore like it used to”. That is what i am. Bring on the challenges, let’s play football. If you don’t play, i will thrash you.
Striker* is kidding themselves. His game is all about having his back to goal and linking up play. He barely runs in behind because he honestly has no pace whatsoever, hence why you rarely see him 1 on 1. Not only does this mean he will never score as much as Henry, but it also nullifies Özil’s game. Özil is the best in the world at playing the final pass, but with your striker refusing to run in behind, he closes up space by not stretching the defence. He is not clinical and will never come close to Henry’s standard. It’s embarrassing if anyone thinks that. 3 goals in 22 games against the top 7 speaks for itself. Giroud isn’t a scorer of important goals and doesn’t have the ability to change a game. He scored a fantastic goal against West Ham which was a nice change but any player can do that. Crouch scored a wonder goal against City, doesn’t suddenly mean he’s a great player. Giroud would be a good number 2 but the whole world knows we need a world class striker. That will drastically improve our team and you’ll see Özil getting crazy numbers next season. If Özil was playing for Liverpool this season, he would have 10 more assists and 5 more goals, at least. It’s all well and good saying “Giroud needs Walcott and Ramsey” but any good player should not rely on other players to play well. Frankly, Giroud is the worst first choice striker we’ve had for donkeys years.
The irony is Henry fully used his demon speed to his advantage and made defenders look silly. Perhaps Giroud should just maximise his brute strength and piledriver any defenders who mess with him. Both are technically prefect and intellegent. Should see a much better and more ruthless Oliver Giroud next season as now he got Yaya Sanogo breathing down his neck. Maybe they should start swearing at each other in French and hardcore wrestle in the mud to prepare for every match day. Or maybe tag team on Bendtner to improve their understading. I wonder what Flamini would do if he sees all this.
My dear friend comparing Giroud & Henry is being mean to Henry to say the list not fare at all. One important fact you forgot to mention is.
Henry was a midfielder b4 he joined Arsenal so there was a change of position/ responsbility to start with, where as Giroud was the top scorer in league1. If he’s in that league we need goals, not clatching his head every time he fails to score an easy goal.
Your correctly pointed out at the start that ‘all goals count Tap inns & lobs’ this is clearly in an effort to discredit the hard work Henry was doing for arsenal as the lead striker compared to Giroud who is always falling whenever he comes shoulder to shoulder with a deffender.
Its know fact Giroud cannot shoot outside the box he solely rely on easy tap inns and for ti score in a time like now when the squad is depleated with injuries he cannot lift us. Look at chamberlin, Podolsky those guys can heatthat ball and that gets any defender & keeper worried when they are on the ball arround the D are, but not our man here coz either his is a Baby shot or he goes down softly orpass thd ball to a defender his assists ratio has not been spoken off any where coz it doesn’t exist.
To be fare to all even given the No. of yrs Henry spent in Arsenal Giroud cannot equall or surpass wat Henry did here or better still Wiltod.
so with all due respect Giroud isn’t the man to lead our striking force. For instance comparing him and Sonago interms of holding up play the former does a better job interms of ball posession and stermina despite his age and inexperience. So Giroud and Henry not comparable in all measures
Come on, Please don’t compare Henry with Giroud. You seem to say we should not sign an established striker, who would be ahead of giroud. Strange even wenger believes less in giroud than you. Why did we try to sign Suarez or Higuain, was it to be a deputy to 27 year old Giroud.
It’s always dangerous to say that someone is the greatest ever.
Such a statement simply invites argument.
But whenever comparison is made of Henry and any other Arsenal striker before or after him, I immediately recall the wonder goal he scored against Spurs.
Can’t remember the year, ground or final score but no matter. The execution was a perfect example of ball control, dribbling and final finish, all in breath-taking fashion.
That to me typifies our goal scoring record holder and until someone appears wearing the shirt and beats Henry’s record (not in my lifetime) Thierry is the greatest ever in Arsenal’s proud history.
I think what we need to remember is that Theo will be the next Henry and that Giroud will benefit from Theo using his pace to score AND to assist.
Last season Theo was the top goal scorer for Arsenal. And he also was topping the assist charts.
So the player that will benefit most from Özil in the first place will be Theo. And Giroud will be there to do the tap ins when Theo crosses the ball from the outside.
Alas as been mentioned before we only have seen Theo and Özil together on the pitch for less than a handful of matches in this season due to injuries or not being there.
Next season we will see the lethal combination Özil, Theo and Giroud making it.
Well, I don’t know…
I said
Of course that doesn’t mean that Giroud is a better player than Henry – in terms of what Henry became very few players in the world ever reach that standard
Which seems to me a fairly clear way of saying I am not comparing the two players.
Also, in terms of Henry, before Arsenal, he was French Young Footballer of the Year in 1996, and during 1997/98 season, he set a French record by scoring seven goals in the competition.
What I am trying to do is say that the judements that Giroud is not good enough at the end of his second season could have been made of Henry. The number of goals scored is similar, and if we applied this AAA judgement to Henry after year 2, they would have had him out.
I don’t quite know how to make it clearer – apart from spelling “shots” as “shots” and not “Shorts” of course.
Incidnetally I have not published a few comments which in essence say, “If you think Giroud is a better player than Henry then…” because a) most of them are abusive, and b) even allowing for the fact that maybe I don’t express myself well, the commentators don’t appear to have read the article.
“Both are technically prefect and intellegent.”
Michael Ram,
Perfect? Does saying this really help Giroud or AFC or fans who crave our improving to say this about Giroud? Please note that the very supportive Arsene is quoted today as saying:
“Maybe Olivier has improved his finishing but there is still some room for improvement. For example, you expect him to score more headers. He wins a lot of headers coming from deep. But the headers coming from wide areas, he still has room for improvement.” Let’s try to be balanced so we can actually think straight about our self-assessments, unless that is being disloyal(?) in your estimate.
If we were to bring in another goalscorer to replace Giroud next season, and if he were to come from outside the Premier League, then we would have the same problem again – two seasons of adjustment, rather than a being in Season 3 mode, which is a much stronger place to be.
This is what you are saying, and I can promise you that you are wrong, totally wrong.
If we had gone across the line and got in Suarez last summer then there would be virtually no adjustment period, and I want you to think about what you are saying in this article with the following added context… WE BID FOR SUAREZ.
Tony and Walter, its great to try and paint a rosy picture at Arsenal because you think you are justified by the amount of negativity, but I urge you both to be realistic with your assessments.
Right now, you both remind me of Winston Smith post his electricution torture.
SA Gunner,
Suarez would have came from within the PL and would have no adoption time to the league itself. Maybe to his new team mates? But I think that is in line with the article.
Basically: from within the PL: no real adjustment. From outside: possible 2-3 seasons adjustment required.
In fact it took Suarez also a few seasons to get his current level as he was from outside the PL.
So or you have misread what Tony said or I have missed something.
Does a possible Giroud injury not cross anyone’s mind? We have dodged a bullet on that; albeit at the cost of degraded performances, until the last second half’s great goal. Or is overuse (which Arsene has just acknowledged) your next season’s customary roll of the dice? What about the chronic, expectable, targeted, serial, non-stop combination refshite/orcshite – that you have so well (brilliantly! and jorno of the year level) documented? Is there something that now stops you from following through on your own analysis? Will pixie-dust stop this from happening to us? Is there any basis to truly believe it will stop once we are threatening to achieve a top-2 position in the League?
My point is the continued need for top-level insurance at that position. Having another top-quality (close to if not world class, a la Lukaku, for but one example) in order to complement (not replace, ffs), rotate, play with Giroud as two-striker (like the last two victories!, depending on the opponent and the in- game flow) would be great.
There is nothing that proves a quality outside striker must take 2-3 years to bed in. Or, even that such a striker cannot be highly productive whilst bedding in. That is, more highly productive than the customary list of young names – now Sanogo, Akpom, Campbell, etc., all of whom are unproven at top levels, but who are, in your belief system, better situated to produce the quality cutting edge that a champion has.
Liverpool is not a petro-club and has quality to burn up-front. Why not spend to achieve that kind of quality cutting edge? (And please, no more pleading poverty, whatever the temptations and tribalist utility anyone might find in the purity of bringing ’em up through the ranks.)
Trigger happy peoples…..
Tony is not comparing the two. But only comparing their adaptation time. He is not saying giroud will become henry next season, as he cannot. Giroud can do what he does best. With his back to the goal and bringing Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Theo, Ox…..into the equation and score from cut backs from those runners. Our rotational system needs a Giroud up front. Giroud is one of the best strikers, if not the best, with his back to the goal………
Arsenal 13
I don’t mean to be obtuse, but just in case I think you are wedded to one system that is the Arsenal: I want us to consider that “our rotational system” is not sacred gospel and can benefit from in-game modification: as proven by the sin of switching to 2 men up front – as a change of pace, tactic, pressure, call it what you will – in the last two (thank god) victories. Being able to move from Plan A to B to Z or whatever, with high quality, even within the same game does seem to suit our purposes. Imagine if Sanogo (who shows promise) actually connected on one of his near misses? Or Giroud in the first half of the last game? Why not maximize the quality at two striker positions and have more options? Can that really hurt? AW doesn’t think so: as he’s now done it twice in a row, in crunch time, with success.
@bob, i agree tactical flexibility will do us no harm. I think the absence of Walcott and Ramsey stopped us from exploring flexibility in rotational football.
I think injuries to Ramsey, Walcott and Wilshere has dine us more harm than an occasionally scoring striker.
It would appear to me that Arsene being such a forward thinking manager is building a team structure for the future.
He has Giroud in place as his typical English style centre forward, and is amassing a plethora of mid-field players with creative and scoring potential.
In the near future it is unlikely that the team play will require an English type CF as the basic offensive strategy, but if needed (eg against the likes of stoke, palace etc) then the squad will have that facility.
Check the leading European clubs and you will find most are devoid of the typical English CF too.
“Those of us who were there at the time will remember Thierry Henry coming to Arsenal. We’d not heard of him, and instead of playing centre forward he seemed to want to play on the wing.”
Where did people who hadn’t heard about Henry live? Henry had been a world-class potential even before he joined us. In fact, even Ronaldo (Luis Nazario de Lima also known as Ronaldo – you might haven’t heard about him either) himself pointed at Henry during World Cup 1998. Henry had had World Cup and Champions’ League goals before we signed him.
“To say there were “doubts” about Henry at first is putting it mildly. Not only did he not score a single goal in his first eight games, his shorts were all over the place, and the joke was he was trying (but failing) to hit the clock.”
To put it mildly, your comparison doesn’t have sense. Giroud signed for us as a newly crowned champion and a top scorer of Ligue 1. Henry had had a terrible spell at Juventus (that went through the similar season Manure have had so far) and had played for two different clubs in two different leagues during 1998-99 before he joined us in the summer 1999. I had never doubted him as I knew his qualities from AS Monaco but – truth to be told – I had never thought he’d become the best player in Arsenal history. (Still, it should be said that Henry managed to score two extremely important goals in Serie A. He scored a brace at Olimpico against Lazio in surprising 3:1 victory which enabled AC Milan to pip the Romans for the title.)
“Fortunately the nay-sayers (who in those days were still to some extent at the matches, rather than just on the blogs) and their ceaseless allies in the media, did not win the battle, and Henry did start scoring.
In 2000/1, his second season at the club…”
Why did you jump to second season? You could have mentioned his first season. 17 goals in 31 appearances in Premiership, one in Champions’ League (where he got just 63 minutes in four matches) and seven during a great run in UEFA Cup to lead us to the Final – 25 goals (which is even more impressive if you know that Šuker and Kanu had started in more than a few matches ahead of him).
Now, we can jump to his second season at the club:
“In 2000/1, his second season at the club, Thierry Henry played in a total of 53 matches, and scored 22 goals. Not a bad return in a second year for a player who was pretty much unknown in England before Arsène Wenger signed him.
Let’s hold that in mind for a moment when thinking of Olivier Giroud who is just completing his second season. He won’t reach Henry’s total of games, for so far this season he has played only 45 games but he has scored 20, which by any statistical analysis is better than Henry. And it could mean that in season number 2 Giroud will score more than Henry in his season 2.”
Unfortunately, this is where your piece of article becomes a piers-morgan-lism (a short-sighted lazy journalism based on raw numbers).
Henry’s second season at Arsenal coincided with a major change in our team. (I’m surprised that a man that has done so much positive and hard work on Arsenal history hasn’t learned to analyze things in the context.) We sold Petit and Overmars to Barcelona and we signed Pires, Sylvinho, Wiltord and Lauren while our defence was also going through massive changes as their age became bigger burden than their experience offered on the other hand. It took some time for new players to gel (especially Bobby Pires) but we all know what happened when all of them found their place.
“But less we get carried away, in Henry’s second season Arsenal lost 6-1 to Man Utd.”
Of course. Arsenal lost 6:1 to Manchester United but 1) won the reverse fixture 1:0 (Henry scored), 2) Henry scored an equalizer in our defeat and 3) we had won more points against United in that season than we have this season (or, more than we have won against Chavs and Shitty combined).
“The trouble is that if you take both Theo and Aaron out of the equation through long term injuries it looks tougher, which is why we faltered from first position. But the basic arrangements look good to me, especially when one contrasts the Giroud goal scoring with others in the past.”
If I remember well, there is a thing called Odin’s coin that has only one side visible. Quoted part is Odin’s coin of the truth. It’s true that we faltered from first position (but, as every writer with hidden or non-hidden agenda, you “forgot” to mention that we faltered from first to fourth place) but you forgot to mention a few more details. Like, how we didn’t bolster our squad with at least two more players in January to spare Giroud from fatigue and our attack from being so pace-less and predictable. You see, we all knew after Champions’ League draw that we would have a ruthless fixture list in February and March. As you might have known before (I should have put this at the beginning of every my sentence, Mr Attwood, given that you hadn’t known about Henry before he joined Arsenal), February and March are months that come after January and January is the last month in the football season during which you can sign new players. And, just to get things straight – I have always been against signing of Luis Suarez (I don’t want anyone connected with racism at Arsenal even if that means we will never win the title again). I had called for Miroslav Klose’s signing since November – an experienced striker and extremely intelligent player that wouldn’t have cost us much.
“If we were to bring in another goalscorer to replace Giroud next season, and if he were to come from outside the Premier League, then we would have the same problem again – two seasons of adjustment, rather than a being in Season 3 mode, which is a much stronger place to be.”
If that is your only concern – no problem. Let’s sign a new striker from Premiership. Loic Remy has done well for Newcastle, Javier Hernandez might be on his way out of Manure and Chelsea are apparently ready to sell young and talented Romelu Lukaku.
Of course, there is no scientific evidence that a striker outside the Premiership would need two seasons of adjustment. Michu and Papiss Cisse had had brilliant first season in their respective clubs before they faded in the second. Wilfried Bony has kept Swansea above the relegation zone. Luis Suarez has been impressive for Liverpool ever since he had joined Liverpool (and they had signed him in January transfer window in 2011). Aforementioned Hernandez propelled Manure to the title in his first season.
The thing is, Giroud does add physical quality to our game. His lay-offs and link-up play have been really good. His defending at corners as well. But, to compare him with Henry is an insult to him, Henry and Arsenal. Giroud might have been as good as Kanu had been for Arsenal. The thing is, Kanu had had Bergkamp, Anelka and Overmars in (half-)Season 1, Henry, Bergkamp, Overmars and Šuker in Season 2, Henry, Bergkamp and Wiltord in season 3. He was never our main striker.
After all, Arsene Wenger himself has said that he was looking for a striker who can play “with and without Giroud”. Suarez, Rooney and Agüero are three players in the Premiership that fit the bill but neither of them is going to be available in the summer.
@Walter
A slip on my part yes, apologies to both Tony and you for that one.
The greater point to me however is that what Tony speaks about does not have to be the modus operandi when it comes to Arsenal dealings. We are now in a financial position where we can bring in players of tremendous quality who can make the immediate adjustment.
Just looking at Ozil alone and his ability to hit the ground running as he did is testament to this. I expect Arsene to follow the same logic, and bring in a player who can do the same in this key position.
Mind you, however, it is not an argument on expenditure, it is one on quality, unfortunately the two are directly proportional.
These players operate very differently, so comparing is out of the question. We have a great squad, we need a plan B squad, whereby several injured players can be covered by adequate players.
Off topic, but surely it will be forgiven:
Defeated by a dodgy call against Sunderland, the hated Maureen has just stolen and used Walter’s research in sardonically denouncing The Dean’s theft today of the title for Liverpool. Behold:
“Third point, I want to congratulate again Mike Dean. I think his performance was unbelievable and I think when referees have unbelievable performances, I think it’s fair that as managers we give them praise. So, fantastic performance. He came here with one objective. To make a fantastic performance. And he did that. And, fourth, congratulations also to Mike Riley, the referees’ boss. What they are doing through the whole season is fantastic, especially in the last couple of months, and in teams involved in the title race. Absolutely fantastic. I also congratulate Mr Riley.”
Amazing. Maureen is a scoundrel, but the truth does make strange bedfellows.
sorry, to clarify (meant to write): “Defeated by a dodgy call in today’s match against Sunderland….”
Can I get copyright for that? 😉
Ray from Norfolk,
While I second your emotion, Adequate cover will not not enough when everyone in the top 7 will be re-tooling for top honors next season. And given our targeting by refshite and orcshite when we approach actual competitive stature, methinks we will need high-quality cover for the inevitable injuries that will recur. This was evident in the summer and in the last two January windows (as Josif indicates regarding this past January). Now that mega-money from TV revenues will kick in, plus PUMA, plus (likely) top 4/CL finishing, there is no further pleading poverty to stand in the way of paying the necessary for high quality at key positions. I feel you may mean this, but Adequate (if you mean it literally) won’t do against the competition (which included 7 sides, plus the Rileyites and their stringpullers).
Walter,
I will swear in a court of law that you said it first (and if not first, foremost). The man ought to pay you openly and willingly and ceremonially (if only to deflect the drip-drip of snide comments that you are actually in the pay of AFC) 🙂
@bob:
did Cuntinho give a late congratulation to Mike Dean for his performance last December against us? You know, the one in which his Mikel made an assault on our Mikel and didn’t get a red card? 😉 Or to Mike Riley for Howard Webb’s failure to send Samuel Eto’o off in the very beginning of the match against Liverpool for an assault on Henderson? 😉 Or for that late penalty against West Brom that had kept his record alive until today? 😉
Oh, and the fourth official today, one Phil Dowd.
(The Dastardly D’s Done Did Maureen.)
Perhaps Maureen ought to feel obliged to contribute to WB Research. Even Chlesea, it seems, might have something to gain from a level playing field. (Then again, it is most satisfying that the person who scored the dodgy penalty kick against Dean is a former Chelsea player who is now on loan to Sunderland from – have you guessed it? – Liverpool. Maureen is done in by the same tactic – loaning out players to damage his competitors – that he/Chelsea so effectively have used to their advantage. You can’t invent it better. So foul a sky clears not without a storm, said the Bard, and WB Research is that perfect storm. I’m outta here.
Josif,
You’re right, there! And Cuntinho, the Chosen One, has now had to (re?)learn the true meaning of English Steal. (Ouch! 🙂 ) Maybe there’s some on high who couldn’t just nowadays abide by having their sacred (read poisoned) chalice being held aloft in victory by a Ruski Owner. Ah, the Beautiful Game.
really sorry, getting late: at 10:45 above, I meant “….the dodgy penalty kick against Maureen…”
Giroud is a good player but we need another striker. Walcott is injury prone. It would be negligent to not add to our strikers. City can make room for three great strikers, Pool have two, it would be silly to think we can go through a season with so many games and not get a first class striker. What is the point of having vast funds and not using them?
Sorry to bring this up again.
We now the pig-mole is out to get us in two ways: the dodgy calls is one; the other is, by extension, the injuries; to make sure we suffer less from this standpoint, we could:
-Get a few “enforcers” but how many enforcers are as good as Patrick Vieira? Plus, that would not be the Arsenal way.
-Buy good back-ups; I like AW’s preference for players who can play multiple roles, as large squads are not ideal; this is why players like Sagna are perfect, playing all defensive positions.
-Put Usmanov in charge of the pig-mole. I am only half serious.
Chapman’s Ghost,
Yep, seems common sense, but there’s something deemed impure about advocating it hereabouts – a betrayal of the religion of frugality, a betrayal of the academy, a betrayal of the david beats goliath syndrome, etc. etc. There’s a tribalism that turns this into “splash the cash” for its own sake. And a tribalism that refuses to see the recklessness – health wise – of its purity. Advocate this ongoingly and you’re a “doom and gloomer” who direly wishes an injury on Giroud. Or, mostly, it’s immediately twisted into “replacing” Giroud when it’s meant as adding another quality striker for the many good reasons that most people can at least see, even when not agreeing with.
@bob, true. If we have money I can’t see the point of hoarding it. I think a better investment would be two or three quality players, surely a striker is a necessity. I think Wenger wants one too and he has said he played Giroud too much so I make the deduction that he must be interested in a striker.
Who said to splash the cash?
Just get rid of Bendtner, and of loaned players who will never make the grade. As to Giroud, his overall play is really good. Our midfield, though great/superb quality-wise, and more than decent numbers-wise, had multiple injuries, and we did not cope very well with that situation. We also look like we do not have enough attackers with movement, though we have one of the best in Walcott; hence, the popularity of the idea of a player like Draxler or Griezmann. I do believe that AW knows best, and as we know best about the pig-mole, we need to plan accordingly.
Ray from Norfolk,
For months over the last two seasons that I can recall, the advocacy of shoring up with quality at several positions (CF, DMF, FB) has been negatively labeled as being part of a splash the cash/spend-spend brigade (if not the dread AAA). You may or may not have equated these two, but that’s what I’ve referred to in using the phrase.
Don’t really know what a pig-mole is, so I guess I don’t know best about that either. Cultural think, I guess. Being an earnest fan can have something to do with trying to offer a thoughtful analysis and engage in debate. It could be stimulating and maybe educational at times. Otherwise we’re left with a royal wankfest of self-applause for being us rather than being them.
Chapman’s Ghost,
Yes, Arsene has acknowledged overplaying Giroud. He also said this last season about Jack (in the previous season). Under the pressures to win, with less than enough quality in numbers, the need to overplay must be irresistible. He knows what he’s up against in ways we can only scratch at. Alas,
Bob,
Arsene was clearly talking about physical improvements in Giroud, so please dont doubt my word cause I dont doubt the players. Perhaps thats the reason why he keep playing Giroud in the beginning without break. To prepare him for following season. I still remember Henry, Pires and Vieira will play almost every game without breaks. They were struggling at first with injuries but look how they turned out to be. And the reason I will never doubt Arsene is because he is with the squad almost everyday and he sees their potential at training. If we fans get our heads together and remove this thought of greed for glory, we might actually see these players fulfill their potential.
Michael Ram,
It’s not clearly physical like a machine; but skills like an art form. “Nous” as in game-wisdom. We interpret it differently, but, clearly, both love our team. Cheers.
@bob, Pig mole, I think he means the PGMOL.
@Michael Ram, I don’t think it’s just fans who have a greed for glory, it’s players too. When we miss out on this glory the players go elsewhere to seek it. This is normal in football world. You can’t wait forever for players to come good, we’ve done that quite a lot recently and some do, some don’t. Do you think we shouldn’t buy players when we are cash rich? Don’t need to plunder our resources recklessly but we need a few very good players to push forward.
Mourinho is a funny man. He seems to think the PGMOL dislike his team. If so it’s quite an oversight to leave Ramires on the field after he clouted a Sunderland player in the face. Also Sunderland penalty was justified. I can’t say there was too much bias against Chelsea yesterday.
Mourhino’s right. There is a PGMOL agenda to scupper a certain teams chances in the PL.
He’s just got the wrong team !!!!
Did anyone notice how SKY (at least the commentators as I didn’t watch the post match analysis) where falling over themselves to show it wasn’t a penalty despite all the evidence to the contrary.
This is the same SKY that where still, even yesterday, banging on about the ‘non’ penalty award against West Ham.
I’d like to blame the PGMOL for everything but I don’t know, that is, how did we lose 6-0 to Chelsea when Sunderland and Crystal Palace can beat them. Does that tell us more about those two teams or more about us?
Sorry Tony, I agree with most of what you say but Thierry Henry was well known. Maybe not to you but we knew Arsene had been trying to sign both him and Youri Djorkaeff since arriving at the club.
Another thing to compare is Henry’s 26 goals in his first season and 22 goals in his second. Subsequent seasons he was ending with regular tallys in the 30’s, plus he was 21 when he joined whereas Giroud was 26, more experienced and scored less in his first two seasons. I cannot see Giroud scoring 8 goals in these last games to equal the lowest tally of Thierry barring his last season when he was missed a lot with injury.
I consider you a hardcore Arsenal Supporter and cannot understand how you can compare any player with Thierry Henry, especially Giroud. What is the purpose? Are you trying to convince us Giroud will be banging in 30+ goals from next season?
True, the man works hard but so did Chamakh. As big as the man is and as strong as the man is, he sure goes down very easily with the slightest of touches. Not Thierry, no way. Thierry also never tried desperately to be a David Beckham media clown like Giroud does.
I used to liken Giroud with Alan Smith but I know now this is an insult too and have since stopped. Giroud would do well back in the French league but I don’t think he is suited for the Premiership with any team. He has tons of service and even has the best assister in World Football in the same team, but even Özil gave up wasting balls on him in some games.
I wish him all the luck but I believe we need a finished product with Premiership experience like Suarez or who I’ve wanted for ages now, Dzeko. Other positions we can afford to have players adapting and breaking in, but as a main goal provider, I disagree this is true of Giroud, especially with the amount of money we have for investing. Against some teams we get perhaps 3 clear chances and if they fall to Giroud, he just cannot be relied on to bury them at the back of the goal.
@ Arsenal1Again..could not agree more.. The comparison I think was to encourage discussion which it has. Henry at his best in this current team where would we be?
“The comparison I think was to encourage discussion which it has. Henry at his best in this current team where would we be?”
It’s hard to say what would have happened if we had had Henry but with his pace and ability to create a goal out of nothing…
Speaking of comparisons…
Szczesny has been in a poor form since that blunder against Sunderland but I think he is going to be much better goalkeeper than Jens Lehmann was.
Sagna is the most complete right full-back in the world when he is fit and in form. Better than Lauren was.
Gibbs would have reached Cashley’s level if there wasn’t for all those injuries that keep attacking him.
Mertesacker and Koscielny vs Campbell and Keown… I think our current central defenders (pretty much like our whole team) are too nice for their own good. Can you imagine BFG or Kos yelling at Ruud van Horse-face (or van Prick)? Neither do I. Quality-wise, Campbell was a world-class while both Koscielny and Mertesacker are better than Keown.
Ramsey is the closest thing to Ljungberg in terms of intelligence and that is arguably the biggest compliment to give someone, except Ramsey has more qualities than Freddie had.
Cazorla and Özil are closest things to Pires and Bergkamp.
This year Rosicky is like an upgraded version of Ray Parlour.
Basically, two remaining issues are places of Vieira and Henry.
There are hardly players in the world that can emulate either of them. Perhaps turning Wilshere into DM would be a good idea – he is full of pace, energy and aggression. He needs to add sense for defensive balance to his game and he will be a perfect midfielder.
Henry is a one-in-hundred-years-player. I have an idea about Oxlade-Chamberlain as a central striker – he is pacey, aggressive, energetic, has a good technique and his intelligence and off-the-ball-movement are intriguing (one of two players that I’ve seen doing a dummy – second one is Ramsey). He needs to improve his shooting technique and he’ll be a perfect player. I have a feeling that his self-confidence has been in decline since that miss against Spuds but he has a spirit of the champion in himself (he reminds me of Wayne Rooney except far less ugly and less diving).
Personally, I think the article is in part, if not in it’s entirety, an attempt to counteract what Tony sees as all the unfair criticism aimed at Giroud.
I knew when I read it Tony would be in for a bit of a rough ride because lets be honest, making direct comparisons to Henry, perhaps the greatest striker in our history, was always going to attract derision from some.
But the fundamental point Tony is making stands up to scrutiny. Giroud’s bare statistics do compare well to Henrys.
And I think that’s all he’s trying to say.
Henry was a genius, and he would be top of my list of Arsenal strikers, as he would be most peoples, including Tony’s I would suggest.
But Giroud is good, he is VERY good, and a lot of the criticism he gets, especial the type along the lines of ‘he’s not fit to wear an Arsenal shirt’ are way way wide of the mark, and quite honestly ridiculous.
So Tony, I 100% get and agree with the point, that at least I believe you are trying to make. Sorry if I haven’t read you right.
andy bishop wrote:
“Henry at his best in this current team where would we be?”
And it is this type of statements that makes polite debates difficult. Was Henry at his best in his second year with us? Was Henry playing with players of similar ability and calibre as the current team? Doesn’t the quality of your team mates affect your output especially as a striker? Did Henry played in his second year with most of the key creative players injured most of the time?
Tony went to a great length to clarify that he is in no way equating Giroud with Henry but I don’t see why like for like comparison of their 2nd seasons is causing so much blowback.
I chuckle everytime I see over-glorification of Thierry Henry. Some people write about the guy like he played for us in the 1930s (I’m talking about you now Arsenal1Again). Henry is being written about like some super-human striking machine. Check this out:
“As big as the man (Giroud) is and as strong as the man is, he sure goes down very easily with the slightest of touches. Not Thierry, no way.”
This is so ridiculous, I don’t even know where to start. Please remember that Titi left less than 7 years ago and some of us still have full recordings of his games and not just Youtube collections of his goals. If Henry is the infallible striker that we are been forced to believe, why didn’t he score those couple of chances against Barcelona in the 2006 UCL final?
I love Thierry Henry as much as any Gooner and I don’t think that he is one of our greatest strikers. I firmly believe that he is the GREATEST striker in the history of Arsenal FC.
At the same time, I don’t consider it sacrilegious or blasphemous to compare like-for-like parts of his history with that of our current strikers.
It is sad that this further clarification would be necessary after all the effort that Tony had made in the article to prevent such. I guess we all need to read and understand articles before posting comments disagreeing with them.
Does anyone know why Chuba has not been given more of a chance this season….in the way Sanogo has? Guess we do not see what goes on in training but would like to see more of CA….as the article says. maybe next season….
“This is so ridiculous, I don’t even know where to start. Please remember that Titi left less than 7 years ago and some of us still have full recordings of his games and not just Youtube collections of his goals. If Henry is the infallible striker that we are been forced to believe, why didn’t he score those couple of chances against Barcelona in the 2006 UCL final?”
There is no such thing as an infallible striker but Henry was the closest thing to one. Let’s start with the fact that he had scored that incredible tie-breaker against Real Madrid at Bernabeu and helped Fabregas to knock Juventus down before the final.
I actually don’t want to go any further because I’d have to pick one of million Henry’s incredible goals for Arsenal. His hat-trick against Liverpool in 2004 scored during very difficult streak of matches, for example. His clever goals against Manure in 2001-02 and Chavs in 2003-04. The way he had broken great Javier Zanetti before he fired that low shot against Inter. His bullet-header to complete our double over Manure (who went on to win the league) in 2006-07. Etc, etc.
@ Josef. No point in responding to certain AKB’s. You are of course right. The purpose of this article was to prompt discussion which it clearly has. No one in their right mind could compare the two.
andy bishop,
I take it that you are not in your right mind as you have been comparing the two. Concluding that Henry is better is still comparing. But to be fair, logic is not your strong suit.
You and josif are moronic in your repeated responses. The author compared 2 players at equivalent seasons (2nd) with Arsenal and rather than counter his opinion with facts from Henry’s 2nd season, you keep going on about how great Henry was without any reference to what he did in his second season. You kept quoting 2000s which no one is asking you about.
Pathetic.
I guess you are both too young to remember the late 90s. You need to calm down when adults are talking though. Especially Josif who also lack reading comprehension. Tony’s first sentence in the article states clearly that he is not comparing quality of strikes but number of goals which makes your tirade on Henry’s great goals from the 2000s silly. We all have access to Youtube.
Also, on this site, the term AKB is not an insult. Most of us are AKBs. You need to look for other terms to denigrate us with.
“You and josif are moronic in your repeated responses.”
You should have given yourself a nickname Bottom. It would have suited you more. But I like your tone because it proves that lack of class and some virtues that good parents teach their children cannot be learned. 😉 If I hadn’t known better, I’d have said that you are sent among the Gooners by Chavs. But then again, weirder things have turned out to be true. 😉
“…you keep going on about how great Henry was without any reference to what he did in his second season…”
Now, take a deep breath between two barks, call someone with better reading abilities (if there is anyone near your container that is) and read this one again:
“Henry’s second season at Arsenal coincided with a major change in our team. (I’m surprised that a man that has done so much positive and hard work on Arsenal history hasn’t learned to analyze things in the context.) We sold Petit and Overmars to Barcelona and we signed Pires, Sylvinho, Wiltord and Lauren while our defence was also going through massive changes as their age became bigger burden than their experience offered on the other hand.”
“I guess you are both too young to remember the late 90s. You need to calm down when adults are talking though. Especially Josif who also lack reading comprehension.”
Well, if you mean late 1890s, then I’m too young to remember those. If you ask me about late 90s, I recall them (more or less) perfectly. One of those things I will always recall is my excitement when I saw Henry entering the pitch in Arsenal shirt for the first time. 😉
Anyway, this Mr Attwood’s text is simply poor analysis – facts were taken out of context and when you don’t have all factors taken into account, you get a poor result. Pretty much like your whole contribution.
Bootoome
I like your last line.
We are AKB’s and proud of it !!
I know ‘AAA’ is a generalization, but the Josifs and Andy Bishops of this World know exactly what type of ‘fan’ it alludes to, but for some reason they get all uppity when you use it to describe them.
I wish they’d just have some balls and come out of the closet.
Own it lads. Be proud to be AAA’s. Just be ready to take some shit. I mean this is an AKB site after all !!!
@jambug – that division among Arsenal fans is arguably the most stupid thing that has ever happened among the Gooners but then again, I can’t forbid anyone to be stupid. Neither you nor Bottom are exceptions.
And, a real Gooner should never fear of the away venue – remember, we have won it at Old Toilet, Shite Fart Lame and at Scousers’ home in the last 25 years. 😉
Josif,
I can’t argue with you on stupidity. You are a clear expert.
You are a moron who cannot even comprehend simple English sentences. Don’t cry when you are beaten on logic, just suck it up.
When you are ready to provide counter arguments to Tony’s points by using Henry’s second season record, then we can have a proper debate.
For now, carry on wallowing in your stupidity.
jambug,
Just ignore the non-existent AAAs and their senseless overuse of smileys (insert lame face emoticon). The quickest way to know infantile posters is through their overuse of LOLs, emoticons and their retarded belief that twisting the Internet username of those with whom they disagree is witty on their part and painful to opponents.
Sad and pathetic.
@josif
I’m stupid. You’re a moron. Hmmm, yep I’ll take that. 🙂
Boo,
I love a ‘smiley’ day. Especially on days such as these !! 🙂
“You are a moron who cannot even comprehend simple English sentences. Don’t cry when you are beaten on logic, just suck it up.”
Logic? Son, where did you see logic in your posts? Your posts are to logic what Jose Mourinho is to football – an utter class-less disgrace.
“When you are ready to provide counter arguments to Tony’s points by using Henry’s second season record, then we can have a proper debate.”
I actually used data that influenced at Henry’s second season record. Of course, it’s the biggest problem with all thick cretins of the world – they see only what they want to see. Unfortunately, I know people like you – you are war-meat, you live to be led, you live to serve, you live to switch off your brain if your master asks you to do that. Of course, in your case, no switching off is needed.
“Just ignore the non-existent AAAs and their senseless overuse of smileys (insert lame face emoticon).”
No emoticons were used in my first reply to Mr Attwood’s text. I use them when replying to your insults because, truth to be told, I don’t recognize you as a person that possesses even average intelligence. If Wayne Rooney had performed lobotomy, he would have written with more sense than you.
“The quickest way to know infantile posters is through their overuse of LOLs, emoticons and their retarded belief that twisting the Internet username of those with whom they disagree is witty on their part and painful to opponents.”
Of course, the best way to show maturity is to use words like “pathetic”, “moron”, “infantile” (are you sure that you know what each of those words means without Google?). You can use a famous: “Let’s give a hand-job to each other so it looks like we do have a sex-life with another person!”-tactic in internet-discussions with jambug – it’s fine by me – but every person with an IQ higher than 70 will sweep the floor with you and your statements.
“Sad and pathetic.”
Indeed you are.
“I’m stupid.”
Congratulations, jambug. That was the first correct sentence you have written and some coming out of closet! 🙂 Now you can send your brain-cell on loan to Bootoomee so we can get his confession here.
josif.
When you only have one brain cell you don’t lend it out to anyone !
Could explain why you haven’t got yours yet !!
Not very scientific I know, but I think we’ve inadvertently stumbled on something profound ! The biological difference between a Moron, and someone who’s just plain stupid.
ONE BRAIN CELL, and I have it !!!!!
@jambug – shhhhhhhh, I think you can get a lot of money from Bootoomee for your brain-cell (after all, it is yet to be used and he has none) but I’m afraid I’ll have to make a special instruction book how to use it for two of you.
I just need someone who can translate a human language to yours and I don’t have Tony Pulis’ phone number. :/
jambug,
You have clearly struck a nerve. You need to tell Josif he has won. I think he needs it. Besides, you are beginning to look like a bully for picking on this Special Needs commenter. Credit where it is due, he has stopped writing Bottom. Interesting!
@josif.
Boos got his own brain cell.
I can tell that by the way his made you look such a twat.
Shit, I must get myself another one that can spell !!!
@Bootoomee, I think we should put this one down and write more constructive things on other topics. Harvey Keitel’s character from “From Dusk Till Dawn” would have probably told us: “Are you so much fucking losers, you can’t tell when you’ve won?”
And we (Arsenal) won today and have three more steps until fourth place is secured.
Cheers from Bosnia to both. 😉
Someone has pointed this out already. When Henry arrived he was 21, when Giroud arrived he was 26. For me that’s the main difference. Strikers are at their peak roughly from 26 to 29, at a stretch from 24 to 30/31.
Yes Giroud is not appreciated enough, but I don’t think a comparison with King Henry should have been made to point this out.
Quincy,
Now, that is an intelligent rebuttal. I have also seen the comment that made the point earlier. It is better than blabbing on about issues that the writer had gone to great lengths to tell us he wasn’t making.
I disagree with your idea (one that is also being held by many) that “King” Henry shouldn’t be compared with Giroud on the account of the greatness of the latter. This just plain sounds like a religious reasoning to me and I absolutely reject it. I have no qualms with comparisons between Jeffers and Henry or between my grandma and Lionel Messi. All you have to say is that you believe (or don’t believe) that my granny is better. Simples!
I think that comparison of stats of 2 players in similar positions at similar periods in the club is legitimate, their relative ages notwithstanding, and I see no reason why such comparisons should be shouted down by using the decade long record of one against the less that 2 year record of the other.
Finally, I have no doubt that Henry is the greatest striker in the history of Arsenal FC but Giroud’s 2nd season stats is better than Henry’s.
Henry vs Giroud, the comparison is inherent in the title. And if that isn’t enough much of the piece then compares Henry to Giroud. Why does it matter anyway? Comparing players is a little bit pointless as conditions are different in each era. David Jack may well have been the best striker we ever had but seeing as he hasn’t played in every season since we were formed who knows?
It would be more interesting to compare Giroud to Suarez. And we know who wins that face off.
Giroud just isn’t as talented as Henry, you don’t have to have worked years in football to know that. But if the team is geared towards suiting Giroud’s style then he might score 30 goals a season.
Moyes sacked. Official.
Had to happen.
The following season Henry scored 24 goals In the Prem, from 31 starts. Does anyone think Giroud will do the same?
There is big difference between Henry & Girhoud.
No one can catch the the Henry he is the only player in the world.
& no one like him he is bigger player then Messi & Ronaldo.
Arsenal should sign him again.