By Tony Attwood
If you run a business and spend quite a bit of time dealing with other businesses, there is every chance that at some time or another you will have found yourself in an argument with an individual or a company that behaves utterly and totally unreasonably. They make a claim that is utterly preposterous, make absolute demands, refuse to negotiate, and spend a lot of time saying “we’ll see what the courts have to say about that,” and invent all sorts of ideas as to what should (in their eyes) have been going on.
The first time it happened to me I was utterly unprepared for the inventions, the lies, the arrogance, the complete disregard for honesty and common courtesy. Not knowing what was coming I uses a local solicitor but fortunately in this first case I sacked my lawyer half way through (even though it cost me a lot as he refused to hand over the papers to a new lawyer until I had paid his bills in full, despite his utter cock up) and we started again.
By the end of the case, which drifted on for months, I had got a hang of what was going on. Ultimately my adversary left the country suddenly, and there was the wonderful sight of his barrister standing up in court saying to the judge, “Sir, I have no instructions.” It took a moment for it all to sink in. He’d run, we’d won.
I was still shaken when I found myself embroiled in a second such case some ten years later, but at least this time I was able to use my past experience, and approach it with the understanding that the person I was dealing with was an utter liar, while the legal team and “expert” accountants were just happy to take the money. The key to it all is to know that there are people around who are actually not very bright, but who are used to bullshitting and getting away with it.
Of course I don’t have a clue what really went on in the Chelsea and Mourinho vs Dr Carneiro case which ended suddenly today, but I have to say I always took it that one side was creating all sorts of monumental tales (that is tall tales only bigger) in the hope the other party would ultimately give in. So I was doubtful that we would go the whole way – either one side would back down and settle to the other’s outrageous demands, or the bullshitter would recognise that he/she was going to be made to look a total idiot in court and would back out at the last minute.
So my guess is that all sides knew how it would turn out, each was waiting for the other party to blink.
But let me stress again, I have no inside knowledge on this case, however I can take a few guesses which you might or might not agree with.
First Dr Carneiro agreed the settlement with the Chelsea over the claim of constructive dismissal just before she was going to give testimony that the Guardian and other papers suggested “was expected to be highly damaging” to Chelsea, their manager and the club owner.
In cases of this nature, all parties exchange evidence before hand – it is not a case of suddenly someone springing a “surprise witness” like they used to do on American TV. Everyone knows what’s being presented to the employment tribunal, so that everyone can prepare themselves properly. This is why, as the rather dull and disjointed “legal expert” that Radio 5 employed this afternoon made the point that huge numbers of Employment Tribunals get settled in the corridors rather than in the courtroom.
So it looks to me as if Chelsea and Mourinho who blinked and backed down – or were ordered to back down – a suggestion that is given evidence by the fact that Chelsea apologised “unreservedly” to Dr Carneiro over the events that led to her departure, last August.
Chelsea went even further, so much further that “eating humble pie” hardly seems to capture the essence of events. For Chelsea’s statement said it now accepted that Dr Carneiro had done nothing wrong. That was of course self-evident, but it needed to be said so that it was on record. They added that that the doctor was a “highly competent and professional sports doctor”.
Now we also know that Dr Carneiro had been offered £1.2m to settle, and she had rejected it. That offer would have been “without prejudice” meaning that it did not affect Chelsea’s claims or position – it could not be seen as an admission of guilt. Without Prejudice offers can be made simply to get the case out of the way, because it is distracting from other matters.
But the fact that Dr Carneiro rejected the offer shows how confident she was in her case – another pointer to the fact that she was not on the bullshitting side, although of course that is only a conclusion of mine. I haven’t seen any of the papers.
Now the agreement means that we won’t have the court case, which would have made everything public. Indeed this is rather what I predicted when I wrote in March, “Maybe they are just taking it to the edge so that the good doctor will back off. I suspect she won’t.”
What we did get out of the case was Chelsea saying that, “Just 10 days prior to the hearing, [Dr Carneiro] … made a series of scandalous, irrelevant and untrue allegations for the very first time in her witness statement which she never complained about during her employment.”
Perhaps Chelsea realised that this too was not quite true. They also alleged that Dr Carneiro’s attitude to work had raised concerns. They said she was “increasingly pre-occupied with developing her profile”, and “secretly briefed against Chelsea to the media”. It was hard hitting stuff, and although most of us might feel that we could stand up to such aggression, day after day of it in court is a different matter.
“We wish to place on record that in running onto the pitch Dr Carneiro was following both the rules of the game and fulfilling her responsibility to the players as a doctor, putting their safety first.
“Dr Carneiro has always put the interests of the club’s players first. Dr Carneiro is a highly competent and professional sports doctors. She was a valued member of the club’s medical team and we wish her every success in her future career.
“Jose Mourinho also thanks Dr Carneiro for the excellent and dedicated support she provided as first team doctor and he wishes her a successful career.”
So there was a bit of give and take. Dr Carneiro pulled back from her demand for a personal apology from Mourinho, but she probably felt the rest of what she got was enough for everyone to read between the lines. Mourinho walks away not guilty of anything.
The question arises of course as to whether Man U regret offering a long term contract to a man who walked out of Chelsea the first time he was there, was sacked after taking Chelsea towards the relegation zone, and who has created a scene (which of course continued after the match via the Doctor’s demotion) and which finally led to an apology that I suspect many people who are not Chelsea fans will see as somewhat humiliating for Mourinho, Chelsea FC and its owner.
The FA also come out of this very badly in that they failed to interview Dr Carneiro even when they were investigating the affair. How can you investigate something like this, without interviewing the witnesses?
As Dr Carneiro said, “I was at no stage requested by the FA to make a statement. I wonder whether this might be the only formal investigation in this country where the evidence of the individuals involved in the incident was not considered relevant. Choosing to ignore some of the evidence will surely influence the outcome of the findings.
“Last season I had a similar experience at a game at West Ham FC, where I was subject to verbal abuse. Following complaints by the public, the FA produced a communication to the press saying there had been no sexist chanting during this game.
“At no time was I approached for a statement despite the fact that vile, unacceptable, sexually explicit abuse was clearly heard. It is incidents such as these and the lack of support from the football authorities that make it so difficult for women in the game.”
That accusation still weighs heavily against the FA. The tragedy is that they, I rather suspect like Mourinho, feel they have done nothing wrong.
- Does having top league scorer help you win the league? Here’s the stats…
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Chelsea, the cultural terrorist & the FA all got
away with murder.
But at least there was some degree of justice
for the Doctor.
Tony, perhaps the “Special One” was at the court, to give a personal apology to the good doctor?
An initial offer of over £1 million, spoke volumes for the Chelsea case.
As for the FA, surely Greg Dyke can also apologise? We now know, the FA will make statements without due diligence! Rather like a referee and obvious errors of judgement.
Peas from the same pod!
Hmmm, I think Dr Caneiro too cannot not be totally absolved of any wrong doings in her professional career at Chelsea under the managership of Mr Jose Mourinho.
Her action at rushing to the pitch to treat the injured Aden Hazard had infuriated Jose Mourinho who thinks she can’t read the tactics of the game at that late time in the game. And she was not the only medical staff that drew the rage of the manager at that moment. Her 2nd, a Doctor too who went along with her to do that inappropriate treatment in the eyes of Mourinho got reprimanded by Mourinho too. And Chelsea have suspected her of anti Chelsea activities which maybe true.
But why hasn’t the the 2nd Doctor who also got the rage from Mourinho taken any action against Chelsea and Mourinho at the tribunal save Dr Caneiro?
I think this was a clear case of strong headedness and act of insubordination by Dr Caneiro who felt too big to apologize to her boss immediately after the match had ended for causing him to be angry with her action during the match. This would have settled the matter amicably between the duo.. But the negative actions she adopted later must have even contributed to some Blues revolting against Jose.
But instead, Dr Caneiro has used whatever bottom power and influences she has around to extort money and apologies from Chelsea and Mourinho at the tribunal, in which Chelsea and Mourinho have conceded to her wishes to allow them concentrate on the businesses at their hands.
Just imagine the shit storm if this had been Wenger.
The fallout doesn’t bare thinking about.
With regards to the odious one and the incompetent and disreputable FA I’m sure it will all be allowed to disappear conveniently into the Ether.
Our Jack will get more abuse from the Media than they will, next time he stands outside a nightclub.
SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin
I cant quite make out if you’re being sarcastic or not. I hope you are.
Samuel
The doctor ‘rushed’ onto the pitch because when asked by the ref Hazard indicated that he required attention from the medical staff. The ref was then duty bound to summon the Chelsea medics on to attend to Hazard.
That is how it works, she did not run onto the pitch of her own accord which is what you seem to be implying.
@
Nice write up Tony.
Damage limitation comes to mind.
Looks like the odious one, Chelski FC and the FA have partially got away with their misdemeanours and while having to pay considerable compensation for unfair dismissal/loss of office they have not been damaged to the extent that that they are fatally compromised. The odious one et al live to pollute football another day.
Our “wonderful and fair minded media” appear to be a major part of the damage limitation process!
Sam.
Are you serious with your statement!.I do hope not.Off topic a little, how many times will the Tv media say”Vardy must not let his pending transfer get in the way of his performance.If he plays poorly, it will be AW fault.Do me a favour.
Samuel, I really don’t understand you. Are really thinking that the good doctor has guilt in this case? You can’t be serious.
Trying to find blame on this lady doctor doesn’t make sense. For any doctor the health and safety of a person always comes first. The Chelsea player was tackled, he fell to the ground as if shot, THE REF WENT TO SEE THE “DAMAGE” TO THE PLAYER, AND THE REF SIGNALLED THAT THE CHELSEA MEDICS SHOULD RUSH ONTO THE PITCH TO ATTEND TO THE INJURY.
What should the doctor do? Say no.
When Peter Cech was injured a few years back, Mourinho complained bitterly because there was a delay in calling medical staff to attend to the injury on the pitch.
The calling of medical staff to attend to an injured player who is lying on the ground in pain is the responsibility of the referee and not Mourinho (or any other manager).
From what I have read in the past few months, this doctor is 100% innocent.
And the unreserved apology from Chelsea fc seems to confirm her 100% innocence.
Arsenal fans shouldn’t be apologists for Mourinho especially when he and Chelsea appear to be so wrong and unjust.
@Jambug and Mick. In respect to Hazard signalling for medical attention and the ref asking Chelsea medical to come on, what can one say other than she has an alibi to bail her out Jose’s wrath. In this regard, I concur. But she was apparently not working in tandem with her boss which should have been the case.
Thanks.
It was a massive climb down on Chelsea’s part. As Tony points out, Chelsea realised how damaging this was going to be and did whatever they could to limit the damage. Remember the doctor is also said to have submitted texts from Roman’s wife/partner telling Eva she had done nothing wrong, so I think her other evidence was potentially damaging to all concerned bar her. As team doctor she might also have known other malpractices that, if divulged to the public, would have resulted in severe consequencesfor Chelsea as a club.
That Chelsea are prepared to come out of all this looking silly shows what was at stake was much more serious than the humiliation they suffered today. I’m dying to know how much she was paid today, for her to accept, and it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s millions in double digits.
Samuel, Jose Mourinho is NOTa doctor.
A doctor doesn’t have to consult a layman when she is called to attend to an injured played that is languishing in pain.
It’s the responsibility of the referee to call the medical team onto the pitch.
Mourinho has no say, and he shouldn’t.
SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin
It’s nothing to do with working ‘in tandem’ with the odius one.
It is her ethical duty as club doctor to attend a player if it has been indicated that he is in need of medical attention.
I am no expert on this but I am sure she would of been in some way in contravention of her Hippocratic oath had she refused to attend, no matter what anyone else on the touch line said.
I’m sorry Samuel but you seem to have somehow got this very wrong.
Bjt/Jambug,
True. Any competent media would be scenting blood here, and going all out and leaving no stone unturned, to try and get to the bottom of what really went on. But instead, we will have more coverage of how so and so should not sign for Arsenal and stay with Leicester.
And mourinho admitted having said ‘son of a whore’ but claims this wasn’t directed at Dr Eva, as he’d been using this expression throughout the whole match! At who then should we assume this was this directed at (the ref? ?).
Zuruvi, should a manager of a top football club like say for instance, Liverpool FC be described as a layman medically, even in the case of treating his own injured player on the field during a match?
I should think the managers of the Premier League football clubs should be
very conversant with the rudimentary of medical treatment for their injured players during playing matches despite the fact that they are not professional medical Doctors.
The issue in the case of Dr Caneiro and Jose Mourinho as I see it was, Dr Caneiro wasn’t ready to succumb to the authority and command of the manager of Chelsea, Jose Mourinho. Not to the extend to tell the frustrated Mourinho at that time, she was sorry but please don’t address me again the way you did. I am a respected married woman, and am not a slur.
Behind closed doors in the office of the manager, wouldn’t that case have been settled and she wouldn’t have been demoted if she had apologised to her manager and not to instead have the matter later escalated beyond proportion?
Sam,
The thing here is Jose was looking to cheat, as he always does, by instructing his players to fake injury so they waste time. So when hazard went down, again, and the ref summoned the bench, mourinho’s tactic had backfired on him as hazard would have had to leave the field before coming back on, leaving his team with 9 men.
So this is nothing to do with whether the manager has any idea of whats good or bad for his players’ health, I’m sure most decisions, such as when and what kind of treatment an injured player should have, will have the manager’s blessing. But in this case, it was an attempt to cheat by an unscrupulous man. The doctor went about executing her duties professionally, even though in the process it inadvertently exposed mourinho’s dirty antics, she cannot be condemned for that. It’s like someone blaming their doctor for prescribing/administering certain medication on them after they had feigned sickness in order not to turn up at work the next day.
By “such as when and what kind of treatment an injured player should have, will have the manager’s blessing” I mean an injury such as a leg break, hamstring,etc., the coaching and medical departments work hand in hand.
Very well put, @Al.
@SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin – unfortunately you have this completely wrong – the RULES are (note rules, NOT some made up notion that a football manager knows everything and controls everything):
If a player on the pitch indicates to the referee that he is in need of medical attention and the referee signals to the bench that the medical team should attend to the player, the medical team HAS to attend to the player and there is ABSOLUTELY NO PART OF THIS PROCESS that a club manager can get involved in.
The reason why both Mourinho and Chelsea have settled out-of-course AND publicly apologised, is because Eva’s case is air-tight, and she is totally in the right, and Chelsea + Mourinho were in the wrong.
Dr Caneiro had no choice BUT to go onto the pitch, because the REFEREE had summoned her – end of.
“According to the Premier League Doctors’ Group, Carneiro and Fearn had no option but to enter the pitch and treat Hazard – and would have been in breach of their duty of care if they had failed to do so. Under existing guidelines, a player can request treatment, or the referee can decide to call for it if he believes the player needs it. Referee Michael Oliver signalled for the doctors to come on as Hazard remained down, which would seem to make it an open-and-shut case – the doctors did everything right.”
http://www.bit.ly/1U6r3Fx
If you don’t understand this SIMPLE RULE, no-one on here will be able to help you.
Samuel
The doctor has done nothing wrong at all. The rules clearly states that if a player is injured and needs medical attention the ref calls for the Doctor to attend to the player, what do you not get about this?
To be very honest Samuel I have been reading your posts of late and scratching my head wondering about some of the content. Do not believe what the press have to say about Arsenal,or her manager as in most if not all cases both are loathe by them. Just because they print it does not mean it is all true. You seem to be under the impression that Vardy should or is coming to the Emirates, please wait for Arsenal to announce any deal as we don’t know what is going nor should we as the Board work behind the scenes to secure any deals that may be going on. Arsene Wenger knows who he wants but there are a lot of important factors to get any deal,over the line. Until the facts are known about any transfer people should not be second guessing because if it does not happen then AW and Arsenal take the blame and bullshit as usual, I leave it all to the people who know best because I trust them as they only want what is best for this wonderful beautiful club.
I would really love Wenger to invite Dr Caneiro to the dugout when we play Man U. It would be so mind blowingly hillarious. I’m sure she would be an asset to the psychology of the club.
Samuel,
When the referee calls the doctor on, it overrides any managerial concern. Further, to suggest that someone with 5-7 years of medical training should defer on medical matters to a football manager is so far beyond reasonable as to be a worrying. Take some time to have a think. No need to respond immediately.
Linda, first of all, this Dr Caneiro’s case with Jose Mourinho has no any analytical caparison with the Arsenal effort at signing Vardy. The two are not comparable but are separate issues.
What have I commented in my past comments postings in the case of Vardy’s bid by Arsenal that could be tantamount to be anti Arsenal in nature when if you weren’t aware, I have been a die hard Arsenal supporter for years and I am still one till today.
Nevertheless, I take to the advice of the people provided their advising me will not be injurious to me.. This Arsenal Untold forum is like the peoples court where comments and opinions by the commenters can either be thumbed up or down. On this subject, I’ve been thumbed down by many and I have accepted the thumbing me down in good faith.
Samuel
I know that the case of the Doctor and Chelsea are not the same as Vardy but you have continually in your posts call for Arsene Wenger to get the deal done.
Firstly many on here have said the same thing about your comments on the Doctor and tried to tell you the rules for her coming onto the pitch but you don’t seem to get it and you continue to attribute her the blame when clearly she was doing her job. As for Vardy I was just trying to tell you to not believe the press and IF the transfer takes place then Arsenal will announce it. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings Samuel I really am but what I have said I stand by . God bless.
i wonder why it’s the club getting all the blame and penalty, and not Mourinho
are they too ashamed of him to even mention it?
Disagreeing to being disagreeing – He said /it said !
http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/eaten_something.jpg
This is an old joke that always makes me smile -even the thousandth time !
There has been a bad accident and a passing lady doctor stops her car and rushes forward to assist . She is suddenly and rudely pushed aside by a rough looking man who shouts at her , ” Get out of the way, lady , I know first aid ! I was a boy scout .”
He then goes on to stare blankly and stands dumbfounded as the severity of the scene hits him . All his so called ‘medical’ knowledge amounts to zilch .
The lady doctor see this and tells him , ” Please do call me if you feel the need of the help of a doctor !”
Sometimes this is how I too feel when certain smart alecks come on here to teach us and advice us as to how the club ought to be run .
OUCH !!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-U6xD0oWOEjw/T1M5wKAd2hI/AAAAAAAAAoI/1mlp8rkK7uE/s1600/bad-jokes-are-painful.jpg
In the meantime I do hope that Dr. Eva has not signed any confidentiality clauses that would stop her from divulging some explosive information . Or an exclusive expose , or to write a book , or to be on talk shows that show up the moaning one’s true shitty colours .
Or she could do a detailed psychological study on the moron and present it as a research paper to the British Medical Journal .How about titling it , ‘The Imbecile’s deranged approach to professional football management ‘ ?
Good summary Tony. I know from experience that legal troubles are a complete pain in the ass so I sympathise with you, as well as Dr. Carneiro, who I think was compelled to take a stand as the first woman in her position at a Premier League club.
Allowing Mourinho and Chelsea to get away with publicly humiliating her DURING A LIVE TELEVISED MATCH was never an option for someone who already had to deal with sexist abuse and taunting nearly every time she walked out to do her job in a hostile sports arenas. It’s one thing to hear it from opposing fans, but from your own people? Unacceptable.
As Tony foresaw, she didn’t back down, and today she has a public apology that wouldn’t have come had she taken the first settlement offer. Chelsea’s lame attempts to defame her as attention-seeking told us that they had no case. To think that Chelsea were being lauded for empowering the cause of women in football when she was appointed. The damage they, and Mourinho, eventually did to that cause will take years to undo.
Finally, it is reprehensible to read an Arsenal fan on here stick up for the same Mourinho who disrespects our club, our fans and our manager every chance he gets. So much so that even Chelsea fans with no love for Arsenal were glad to see the back of him. The suggestion that Carneiro’s “anti-Chelsea activities” were somehow responsible for Chelsea fans revolting against Mourinho is idiotic considering the weight of other factors against Jose; a team of champions refused to play for him, he risked the health of his star player Eden Hazard over this Carneiro incident, his increasingly unhinged public statements constantly dragged Chelsea’s name through the mud, and he almost relegated a team that had spent nearly a billion on transfers in the last 10 yrs. Oh, and as AI pointed out above, this incident came about because Mourinho is also a CHEAT.
Anyone repeating the same lame accusations as Chelsea on the very day Chelsea apologised and effectively withdraw all those accusations deserves to have their own character called into question, which the other commenters on this excellent blog wasted no time in doing.
Samuel
Don’t worry about it.
I know you’re Arsenal at heart, but the Dr Eva case is done & dusted, she made her reported £5 million (and best of luck to her) and Jose gets to leave with a smirk.
Hopefully Arsene will tell Vardy to eff off, and Mother Theresa will let you go with a blessing.
The fact is that any notion of “public interest” has been denied by this “out of court” settlement, so we will NEVER know everything that went on that day. Part of the settlement will be that Dr Carneiro keeps her mouth shut in return for a bit extra cash. (Maybe PGMOB negotiated on Chelsea’s behalf as they are very experienced in that sort of thing).
Through their actions, it’s now apparent that Chelsea, its owner and former Manager, have got away with facing the type of questioning and exposure, that Mike Ashley was subjected to in The Commons yesterday.
It just goes to show that if you are a foreigner, doing business or working in a high profile job in this country, you are looked after a lot better than if you were born here.
Samuel – condolences on Stephen Keshi’s passing.
@ Samuel.
Ure nt just wrong with the whole issue but incredibly wrong. Please have a chat with doctor around you ane you will find out that a doc 1st call of duty is the life of the patience. Base on ur argument if the tatics of chealse is to cheat by faking injury then blame harzad for over acting,when the ref walk up to him nd also check the distance that the ref walked to get to him and he still stay down,the ref had a chat with him before calling the doc. Also do you know how many players we have lost on the field due to been late to be treated when they collasped onfield. So please dont blame the doc for doing her job
@SamuelAkinsolaAdebosin
June 7, 2016 at 7:07 pm,
I am sorry but this post came across as chauvinistic to me. And I feel strongly against the final words in that post.
We should sign the Dr as out Asst asst manager. Then Jose will have to talk rubbish about 2 people in press conferences, making a fool out of himself. hahaha
sorry – rider to my previous post:
Unless you are Arsene Wenger or in any way connected with Arsenal Football Club of course 😉
@Samuel
I don’t think from the outside looking in that she did anything wrong and I don’t see how you arrive at those opinions but you are of course entitled to them.
I’ve long felt that Eden Hazard, wonderful footballer that he is, should be seeing an ENT specialist as he clearly has problems with his balance and is frequently falling over.
Interesting reading, Tony and I’m glad it has been finally resolved for Eva. She thoroughly deserves all the apologies and I would also, like a lot of others here, be glad to see her working for Arsenal. Wouldn’t you just love to see the expression on Mourinho’s face!
I hope she gets another job soon. But I think we shouldn’t underestimate how much the past 300 days will have taken out of her. It takes a lot of guts and strength of character to stand up to a powerful organization like Chelsea Football Club.
Even 24 hours before their total and humiliating climb down they were trying to destroy her reputation in public. The whole thing has been an absolute disgrace. And it started with the man who has landed the top and very lucrative job at Manchester United. There is certainly no justice in that respect.