Why Le Grub should follow the lead of the Earl of Sidcup

By Emperor Tony Attwood

It’s now coming up to three years since Untold started its message of peace, joy, economic sanity and devotion to the philosophy and methodology of Arsène Wenger.

During that same time one or two people living in that dark and evil backwater of London known as Grub Street have gathered occasionally within their district to mutter meandering minutious mittle about Our Lord Wenger.  I would not personally go into such a place  for fear of catching something loathsome, but with nothing much to do except watch the growing number of FICK FUFA flags emerge in South Africa, I paused to give thought.

What these jolly little inhabitants of their local tavern (Le Grub I believe it is called) have done recently is to warn us that our club is falling apart.  Season ticket renewals are next to zero, it seems.  Relegation is staring us in the face next season.  All the best players are leaving, no one wants to join us.  The place is in a mess and about to go bankrupt.

Who, I wondered, do these rants this remind me of? What person from history has behaved in this manner before?  How do I get the measure of people like this?

It has taken me a while to realise – but of course now I see.  The leaders of the Grub Street Brigade each day look to me a little more like Lord Spode, 7th Earl of Sidcup.

Lord Spode is at one point described by his creator PG Wodehouse as being built, “as if Nature had intended to make a gorilla, and had changed its mind at the last moment”.  His chosen career is dictator, and he favours organisation and logic as the way of running things.   The current economic system is not working, he says, and so we must change it.  He suggests that potatoes should be produced only in Norfolk, leeks in Somerset, rhubarb in Shropshire, while the whole of Cornwall should be given over to the production of the motor car.

He is also concerned that his followers (the Black  Shorts – all the shirts having been sold out by the time he set up his movement) should always wear shorts to show off the British Knee, on the basis that a British knee is worth 10000 foreign knees.

Now the link between the Lord Spode, 7th Earl of Sidcup, with Grub Street can, I believe, be seen in this extract from the book, the Code of the Woosters…  Here Bertram is speaking to the said Earl…

The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you have succeeded in inducing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you’re someone. You hear them shouting “Heil, Spode!” and you imagine it is the Voice of the People. That is where you make your bloomer. What the Voice of the People is saying is: “Look at that frightful ass Spode swanking about in footer bags! Did you ever in your puff see such a perfect perisher?”

Now my point (and you will be thrilled to know there is a point) is that Spode, like the residents of Grub street, have put about the message of doom so often that they start to  see incontrovertible signs everywhere.

Those in Grub Street, you may recall, suggest that 30,000 have been removed from the season ticket waiting list this year, and that by implication getting on for 30,000 holders won’t renew this summer – so the club will go bust.  All because of Arsène Wenger.

And this is said just at the moment when my application to change my season ticket seats for this coming season has failed!  The club’s official letter told me that 4,000 applications to move seats had been received, and that only 2,000 season tickets had been given up this year, so most people could not be granted their wish.

“Ah,” scream the Grubbers, “its all lies!!!”

So I checked with the people I know around me with season tickets.  None of them is giving up – and under the Grub Street figures around 80% would be leaving.  (Of course that is a sample of around 25 – not that many – but actually 24 more than Le Grub’s total survey.

Now returning to Lord Spode, he once said, “You can’t be a successful Dictator and designer of women’s underclothing.  One or the other, not both.”  How true I hear you say, for we might also suggest of our pals from Grub Street, “you can’t be a successful critic of Arsene Wenger’s revolution, and get all your facts wrong.  One or the other, not both.”

So with £65m matchday income in the bag, and Highbury Square now debt free, it seems that Le Grub is a little amiss on this one, and that rather does rock its credibility.  One thinks perhaps of potatoes in Norfolk.

Or not, as the case may be.

But I don’t want to be uncharitable. I think Le Grub and the Grub Street Gang should show us how much they are loved and admired by following the lead not only of the 7th Earl of Sidcup but also their friends in the north – specifically the supporters of Manchester IOU.

As part of the campaign at Man IOU to get the owners out they have asked all their supporters not to buy any official Man IOU merchandise but instead buy MUST merchandise and wear it.

MUST in Manchester sell scarves etc in the supposed colours of Newton Heath FC.   The Grub Street Gang, since it follows the approach of Lord Spode (as I have shown), should, I suggest, adopt the black shorts.  If you hate the work of Wenger, and you support Le Grub, turn up to the first home match of the season wearing black shorts while shouting “Heil Grub”.   That will show us how many supporters they really have.

Meanwhile while they are busy getting their movement on the road they could also have some banners, like their pals have at MUST.  Maybe things like….

  • “Le youth system est un failure.”
  • “L’Administration est no good”
  • “Le Programme Editor est un drongo.”
  • “Les Ball Boys sont slow”
  • “Les Stewards took my flag away”
  • “L’homme qui does things we don’t even know about est un nasty homme”.
  • “Les Silly Sarcastic Buggers qui write les blogs should shut up”

Few of them should be trusted within reach of a trowel and a pile of bricks, in my opinion.

So, and meanwhile, FICK FUFA while you are at it.

The Empire of Lord Wenger

The Empire of the Past

The Empire

82 Replies to “Why Le Grub should follow the lead of the Earl of Sidcup”

  1. 😆 btw – Arsenal confirmed that by 1st of June 31,000 of the 33,000 season ticket holders had renewed.

    Another big two fingers up at the liars from grub street.

  2. sorry, i meant…

    33,000 of the 35,000 general admission season ticket holders had extended for the 2010/11 season by the June 1 club deadline.

    In addition, only a few hundred of the 6,700 Club level seats, such a huge money-spinner for the club, remain unsold.

  3. Stringfellow – I have got the impression at Club Level that there has been some non-renewal there, but there is still a waiting list, (although a much smaller one that for the ground in general). It may be that the waiting list there has declined, but I don’t think anything remains unsold.

    I’m not definitive about this one, but I am sure Lord Sidcup will tell us.

  4. I will not hold my breath waiting for Le Grub to admit they are guilty of baseless, sensationalist, idiocy. 33,000 of 35,000 renewals. That means 2,000 get the chance to get their tickets. Fantastic news for Arsenal, and I cannot wait for next season.

  5. you really should not laugh at “Le Grub”.these school boy Tiny Tot fans are doing their level best,you cannot expect someone with the intelligence of a chimpanzee to write “war and Piece”

  6. I much enjoyed reading this. The gentleman sitting next to me is looking at me knowingly, watching me laughing. I bet he knows the butt of the joke.

    Would the Le Grub cnuts admit they invented all their stories to snag traffic to their pathetic site?

    Of course not.

  7. I think you’re farting a bit too much Tony.
    There’s good also in Le Grub.
    That you don’t recognise the part of the fans who feel closer to this feeling of lack of something is just plain stupidity.
    That you write that the main editors are just there for a bit of fame is also ridiculous considering your own position.
    If you didn’t feel threatened then you wouldn’t write such crap.
    Even AW himself recognised that the team needed more experienced players, so admitting his plan didn’t work 100% as he expected.
    Now for the tickets issue, who really cares anyway?
    Are you as naive as to believe that commercial figures are given innocently untouched?
    Get real.
    And if it’s to diss on another blog site, at least use their real names and put your money where your mouth is.
    I’m not saying AW is all wrong, neither saying he’s the all-knowing “Lord Wenger”.
    He’s also human and eventually gets things wrong.
    Otherwise he’d have brought 5 titles in the last 5 seasons.

  8. Tony- Dont you think its silly to talk like this about anyone. I know the site your talkin about is like a tabloid which likes to create unusually stupid stories, but why go down to their level and fight them? I prefer to ignore such idiots. And wasting your one article on them is giving them undeserved importance. Plus I believe your a respected man of arsenal, so its kinda degrading to see a man of your stature to mock a tabloid site. They will keep on publishing such crazy stories all their lifetime. And it will be a shame to see responding to each of their stories. I guess Wenger wouldn’t do something like that, infact there have been many crazy stories written about him too, but he doesn’t come out and respond to them. Thats the arsenal way, the cool and calm way 🙂

  9. A bit pathetic really Tone. Best left…err…untold?
    It’s a shame when a blog has to resort to knit-picking at other blogs. And pathetic name calling is very immature. I’d expect you to have grown up by now.

    Maybe you could have just used the blog’s real name? Maybe then your argument wouldn;t have sounded so childish.

    I hope for better next time.

  10. ‘Le Grub’? Your showing a real lack in class digging out other sites? I regularly read Le grove and never hear them directly slag off other sites, Arsenal is the classiest club in premiership and we have genuine morals so as a fan and blogger cant you rise above it in an arsenal sense? you seem to know your facts figures and statistics but does that mean you care more??? I really dont think so. stick to your interesting fact-full blogs and debating.

  11. Le moan’n’groan from Slightly Grubby’n’Very Tacky street really doesn’t deserve this publicity. Tend to agree with C.Gander and Dark Prince.

  12. I think you wright a bit too much about Le Grub, all publicity is good publicity. Better to just ignore the doomsday bloggers.

  13. Tony,
    i admired u a lot as well as le Grub but ur article has left sour taste in my mouth.Some of ur articles are also rubbish overly positive giving diabetes to some sorry but u shouldn’t have…

  14. The Le Grub throng are here to add even more comedy to the situation.

    So to summarise the exchange, it’s gone as follows…..

    Tony Attwood: Le Grub made up stories about Arsenal’s season ticket renewals, taking its readers for fools.

    Le Grubbers: Baaa baaaa

    Me: Maybe Le Grub caters to a market need afterall. They’re useful to people who like fiction served up by half-wits.

  15. Ivory

    Your comment

    If you didn’t feel threatened then you wouldn’t write such crap.

    That is one of the strangest things I have ever read, and I have read some very strange things.

    An element of theoretical basis, a ref to a psychologist, some evidence, or at least some sort of explanation for such a statement, would, at the very least, be courteous.

    On the other hand, the CD player is currently playing Tom Petty’s “The Last DJ” so, I guess, it’s ok.

  16. I disagree with those who think we should not speak about le grub.
    Because they are a bit like cancer spreading out. Now you can ignore the cancer but it will grow. Or you can try to stop them by having a laugh with them, or by letting people know how they tell lies. Because we must not forget that they repeat their lies time after time and they state them as facts. Maybe an ignorant fan who comes there will actually start to believe them and spread the lies further and further. Just like a cancer.

    So I think that in a way it is important that someone informs the public that the truth is not what is said on le grub. I think Tony is doing this very well in fact.

    Some other examples of “facts” given on le grub has been in the last weeks/months :
    “Walcott is on 60K a week”. And this is based on a figure once mentionned in a tabloid and presented as THE truth. Only Arsenal, Theo and the taxman know exactly how much Theo gets.
    “Wenger will have all his buying done before the start of the world cup” is another lie. Wenger said he will try to bring in one player before the world cup. He never said he would bring all his players in before the world cup.

    But these things are repeated almost every day and the cancer is spreading.

    So you can do two things: put your head in the sand and hope it will go away by itself or expose their lies in the hope that people will use their own brain to realise that things might by slightly different than said on le grub.

    Also the fact that when you disagree with them your comments are changed to make you look like a fool and if you let them know that you are not happy with this, they ban you. If people could express their opinion on that site and expose their lies over there you could fight the cancer from within. This is almost impossible as I have found out myself.

  17. Brilliantly summarised, Walter.

    A Cancer indeed!

    The problem is, the ignorant amongst will never really understand the excellent points you make, and will continue to spit the medicine out and let the cancer spread to terminal status.

  18. Le Gripe gives negative blogs a bad name.

    They regularly slag off ACLF so their member who is in here lying on their behalf that they don’t do such things can kiss my A$$.
    They heavily edit and supress contradictory opinion and cannot handle direct debate other than give profane insults(because they are retarded)
    They are our nemesis in a very literal multilayered sense and making fun of their lies and their childish tantrums never gets old.
    Hehe the day they realised that their blog was one of the few that didnt recieve a new away strip to raffle off was hilarious.

    They were cryin like lil bitches for days with all their retarded chimpanzee followers banging objects off the ground to offer moral support.
    They are malcontented customers rather than supporters.
    They posture about not renewing their tickets but do so anyway.
    All talk and not very interesting talk at that.

  19. I’m an horible father!!!!!
    I juste love arsenal my computer and my tv
    nothing alse!!! =p

  20. Untold are shedding much needed light and doing us a public service about le groan/ le gripe/ le grub (none of these names by the way are more ridiculous than the posts on the actual site).

  21. I guess Tom Petty’s not much of philosopher…
    Trying to disgress Le Grove because you don’t have anything to say because there’s nothing happening and prefer to spend an article talking about some other blogger’s mistake, is like taking your pram out to compare.
    When you or some of the commentators here insult Le Grove, their readers and commentators for their grumpiness and some times wrong info, you’re insulting yourself.
    Besides, you’re just trying to kill free thinking and convert everyone to your idealised view of Arsene Wenger. Not everything is pink and beautifull in life.
    My main point is: before you attack another blog like that because they have different opinions than you, or make a mistake, look at yourself. You never made mistakes right? If you have to say something, try to actually point the blogger in question to the answer by answering his post, rather than pointing your finger at him on yours. Otherwise you’re far worse. No one is right all the time. So next time you’re better of compiling an article with all your mistakes.
    Who lives by the fire perish by the fire.

  22. I am in the process of putting together a petition to seek more transparency for our Board about its actions and their desired results for Arsenal Holdings and more importantly for Arsenal Football Club. I urge all those concerned about the club’s current direction to sign on and will provide a link as the petition is completed. If you are interested in helping to write the petition(as they are many who share the concerns I do but may not agree fully with all of my personal views)I urge you to PM me as I am anxious to make sure this petition can be read in the very best spirit by those who would read it.

    No one voice or act of passion will get the Board’s attention but clearly many voices together CAN make a difference hiopefully. Its worth a go I suspect.

  23. Ivory, I think I can say that on this site we at times have made mistakes. Well I want to speak for myself and I have made just today a terrible mistake by mixing up Pique and Busquet for som reason that is still beyond me.

    I just admitted my mistake and there is nothing wrong with that. And many people have said that I made a mistake and there comment has not been changed to cover things up, their comments did not dissapear. I think in that we are just a bit different from le grub.

    I can admit a mistake and I don’t have to make people who point at my mistake look foolish.

    And even though the mistake was completely my mistake and I am the one to blame I think the mistake was not undermining my main thought that I wanted to make in the article.

  24. Walter: Maybe time to call a cat a cat…
    At the end of the day that’s his blog. He can delete anything he wants. Same for Tony.
    He wants to be a grown up and stop crying?
    You say cover up. What tells you it wasn’t for just avoiding his readers to have wrong info?
    In any case what does it matter what he wrote or not?
    Maybe Tony hurt Le Grove’s blogger and readers feelings too?
    At least they don’t hide themselves by calling Untold by other supposedly funny names.
    When I read “libertarian, peace, joy, freedom (or maybe not always)” or something like that, and I see him calling this article his “Earl whatever piece”, rather than just calling it a pretext for attacking and insulting them every 5 sentences or using me again as a pretext in the next article written without even taking time to think, that’s just a pretentious Emperor’s reaction. Not a libertarian. A Nero.
    Creativity is one thing. Chaos is another. But hypochrisy is ridiculous. Now do us all a favor. Delete both his difamatory articles and maybe we can speak football or anything you want.
    In any case, I respect your attitude. You can call me Ivory.
    Tony: for you it’s Ivory Goonz.

  25. I think it is wrong to mention the other blogs, but in direct communication with them. Neither you nor they are right, just as in life things are not black or white. The truth is somewhere between your story and their approximately half-way. It is good that we do a good financial business, but it’s bad that the results do not follow. If we only admire the financial plusses, then instead of football club we can admire to some corporations, such as manufacturers of clothing, footwear, technique or perfume, and to monitor their financial statements and to say that this year was great, because we have achieved even greater revenue than last year.
    Football is still more than just a business, and needs also the results on the ground, but for the last 5 years, there is none, and this is unacceptable.
    So, some things in our club are good, some things are bad, such as 4 captains after Adams in 8 years, and maybe 5 if Cesc goes.
    Not everything is rosy, or black.

  26. Well, well. Can’t tell who the Grubbers are in the replies. Not at all….
    I am an Arsenal FAN. I look for the postives in the team I support. That is why I come here. That is why I read this blog. Le Grub does nothing but spew negativity and lies about the team I love. This isn’t a conjecture, this is fact.

    Yes, blogs are about opinion. The writer’s and the reader’s. I personally prefer to haunt the blogs that support the team I believe in.
    That is why I ignore Le Grub and its spawn like the Plague. The weeping, festering plague that they are. Sorry. Had to get that one in there…. 😉

  27. le grubbish is a website for nobodys.They as people cant get attention so have to make a blog to sprout crap and lies to get some!! JUST DONT go on the site simple!!

  28. all “le grove” have to do is allow us to post (uncensored)and then when they lie .it can be exposed.Simples!

  29. Walter – The problem i found in this article is not whether we should try to say what is the truth or which site is creating a false story, but its the way which the other site is being mocked. To mock someone like that only makes a mockery out of this site. If you dont give respect, you will not earn respect. And i disagree when u say they are like ‘cancer’. A tabloid site cannot do too much damage to anything bcoz people are smart enough to know what is a tabloid. And those people who believe such tabloids are just paranoid. So no use fighting with them. Its better to concentrate on your own site. Arsenal supporters are smart enough to know what is the truth.

  30. Moaning bastards. Le grub has been again exposed as liars and charlatans , and their defenders come weeping as innocents. Have any of the eloquent protesters done anything themselves to expose the falsehoods? …. Long empty silence. Says a lot doesn’t it.

  31. Tony your Highness you’ve contradicted yourself there. You want all the ‘True’ Arsenal fans a.k.a the Grovers to conduct a black Shorts protest at the opening home game. However as you’ve pointed out that they’ve pointed out, none of them have tickets for the new year having given them up. So it’s just going to be us fans over whose eyes that bloody frenchie has pulled wool over.

    And Walter, what do you mean you confused Busquets with Pique? They’re all cunts my man.

  32. Well said Tony. I rememeber reading that rubbish about the season tickets utter dross.

    That charlatan called Geoff is a bigotted son of a sl….. who full of his own self importance and feels he knows better than our great manager and disrespects him on a regular basis.

    All you effing grovers on here chatting shite why don’t you go back to the effing Grub. It is because Tony A is a man of decency that you are comments are not removed unlike at Le Grub where a kind of KGB system operates.

    Tony has the right to say what he likes about whoever he wants. Iam glad he has the balls to tell the truth about it despite knowing you Grubbers will come out of the wood work.

    If you Grubbers have given up your seasons tickets great, now we can get some real supporters who sing instead of groan and boo our own players.

    Also I think it is so effed up when Grubbers come here chat shite about Tony has no class because he has called out another blog. Yet they defend Nazi Geoff’ habit of deleting comments he don’t like and even banning the word racist because he is one.

    Maddy eff off back to Le effing grub and take you girlfriends with you.

  33. Maddy that “Frenchie” is the greatest manager we have ever had and has ushered in the greatest period inour clubs history. If you are hate him so much why don’t you go and support Spurs they have an English spine and an English managere surely they will be more fitting of your “support”.

  34. Tony Ivory said its his blog so he can do what ever he wants even del peoples comments well Ivory this is tony’s blog so he can do what ever he wants even write something that you dont agree with le grub is pure shite and tony should really put them in there place I cant stand liars and thats what they are …. but instead of you telling them off about there lies you come here Mr Ivory and insult Tony who gives us the truth and nothing but the truth. I guess not every one likes the truth thats why at le grub they have del all my posts u attack tony and say that he doesn’t like people who disagree with him so why are your negative posts still here and my positive posts been del of le groan.

  35. E4: before you diss me and put words in my mouth without even knowing me or even having read all my posts, I was actually one to comment to Geoff on Le Grove that his numbers might be wrong, and that there could be other factors to consider before reaching any conclusion.
    Now you’re just humiliating yourself.
    And I didn’t “insult” Tony. Just reminded him that he shouldn’t go that way of dissing on other blogs. Whether they are right or wrong.
    I only insult people who insult me. And you’re just at the limit of having your card ticked.
    As for my negative posts, I think your view is biased and you’re only seeing what your eyes want to see.
    As for “Mr Ivory”, who tells you I’m a Mr? Jumping to conclusion, assumptions, is the one-way ticket to failure. Have a nice journey “E4superflu”.

  36. Surely the first article on am Arsenal blog (or other any other Football blog?) to directly reference a Wodehouse character. The analogy to Lord Spode is an adroit one as well. Cracking read!

  37. Am surprised that there are some who see wrong in what Tony is doing.

    As George Bush once said “Either you are with us, or against us”, If you compare our current manager to Gollum (of Lord of the rings), call our current players (in the middle of the campaign) Denilshit allow your commentators to ‘wish AW gets a tumor’, then according to me you are not with us.

    Statistics are a powerful tool and falsehood must be fought before it starts spreading. Somewhere the truth must be told and we must not fear to call a liar a liar. AFC can’t comeout and make any statements on these things. Bloggers must correct bloggers, commentators correct commentators and pundits correct pundits.

    So Mr Tony, keep up the good work. Let the truth be told and be proud in your support of AW.

  38. Arselicked:
    it’s true that G.W. Bush is a model of integrity, truth, and wiseness…
    We are all in this together whether you licked it or not

  39. “Arselicked” You are so right , AFC and Mr.Wenger are unable to speak up for themselves,so it is up to us ,to do it for them.However,I fear the low level of intelligence of both readers and writers on “Le Lies” means they are unable to comprehend any rational arguments

  40. Ivory Goonz, that was an impassioned defence of the most vile, demented and outright malicious Arsenal blog on the net. Cant buy your arguements though. We are speaking about a blog which does not allow comments contrary to their demented official line on their blog. The very fact that you got a say on this blog is in itself a luxury that many dont have on LG. We get it – you support that blog. You cant stop Untold Arsenal exposing your favourite blog though. Till their lies continue, so will this campaign.

  41. Haha. If you can’t take the heat on le-grove, then don’t go there. Not everything is as rosy as Tony imagines it to be. Its also telling how almost half the posts on this article have been outright, nasty insults. From supposedly mature, intelligent people? Give me a break.

  42. Pat,
    If Le Grub posted debate not insults than you would be able to draw that conclusion. Unfortunately you and your minions post only what you want people to see. As a result you are here because you want to show how authentic you are… Because we wouldn’t see that because no one goes to Le Grub anymore.

  43. nice piece Tony, I love the spode reference, it reminded me of when the blues brothers drove the nazis off the bridge.

    as for the grubbers moaning about the tongue in cheek nature of this article, I should point you towards this blogs ample history of tongue in cheek articles.

    the main point is ( i believe) that le gristle went out on a limb about the lack of renewal of season tickets and found that limb to be wholly rotten. upon noticing this fact they didnt retreat and declare the branch rotten, but carried on further along it. of course they have now fallen off. if the branch is rotten, stop, retreat, take it on the chin. dont fall off, bury your head in the sand and then slag off those that have pointed out your errors.

    Ivory you seem to fit the le grim mode quite well. your arguments have no basis in fact or logic. at least tony et al try to inject a bit of humour into the day unlike the le grotties who are so supersciliously self important and serious about issues that have no basis in anyones reality bar their own.
    arse to the lot of you.

  44. pat, if you think that the untold faithful are spouting outright nasty insults, i think you should re-read all the replies again.

    we rarely use bad language (unlike le grievance) we never slag off our players, manager etc. (unlike le graceless) we tend to correct our mistakes voluntarily (unlike le graffiti).

    the simple fact is, and I’n not being rude here, that we at untold are fairly rounded individuals who are able to have a discussion without resorting to foul language , name calling and taking outrageous liberties with the truth.

    ok, so you dont like AW. you want a bit of silverware. thats fine, but the fact is that most of the articles on le grater seem to look for any excuse to bash the club with.

  45. That said, i read le grove every day. it makes me feel so much better about everything.

  46. Tony: I apologies in advance for the length of that comment and the incapacity of some to understand what I’m saying, though I think you’re not stupid, and that at least you got my point.
    If any reader just answer this comment to diss, repeat comments already made and already answered, I’ll just post a “see above”…

    @alex: trying to put words in my mouth like someone else again? See above. Who said I support Le Grove unconditionally? I don’t support Untold or Lord Wenger unconditionally either.
    I find good things and bad things in all. But I do support Arsenal whether you like it or not, and so does Geoff and Tony.

    @hartwick: you’re doing the same mistake. There are more than 500 comments in average the day an article is released on Le Grove’s articles. You’re just ignoring it.

    So that’s the last time I try to explain my position.

    I do recognize Wenger’s talent for all he brought to Arsenal. But no one is perfect, and some of his choices could have been better. Silvestre? Letting Silva and Vieira go without decent replacement? That’s just one example.

    Now as this blog is devoted to “Lord Wenger and everything he does”, it’s unlikely you’ll see people write an article about his mistakes. Le Grove balances this. And the truth is in between.

    Both make mistakes. And no one is superior.
    They both bring something interesting and despite what you think an Arsenal supporter should do, that’s not whatever you gonna say against it that’s gonna stop people thinking the same way, and having their own opinion nor make them stop loving Arsenal despite all they have to reproach.


  47. I felt obligated to make a few tangible points about your article.

    When a commenter asked you if you felt threatened by Le Grove you stated you needed a theoretical basis or a reference from a psychologist.

    May I instead, just cite an emotion? Jealousy. For a man of your ‘experience’ I find it rather sad that you’ve lowered yourself to publicly expressing ‘green eyed monster’ childishness.

    I also found it hypocritical in the extreme that you dared to ask for this reference in the first place considering the massive oversite in your article.

    Stated facts:

     Le Grove stated 30,000 season ticket holders cancelled their season tickets
     The club will go bust

    Which article were these statements made in? Surely you owe us that so we can see for ourselves? Or maybe you cite the articles because they don’t exist?

    If you want evidence that Arsenal struggled with tickets this year, look no further than the regular Evening Standard adverts pushing club level tickets. No one advertises for a waiting list Tony.

    I find it rather funny reading the comments of certain posters calling for less moderation on Le Grove, you know, trying to take a moral high ground whilst at the same time making petulant abusive comments. Contradictory on one hand, beautifully ironic on the other.

    I also thought the ManIOU reference was strange? Aren’t LG fundamentally opposed to any sort of take over or leveraged buy out?

    To conclude, I’d say the whole article was a baseless, childish attack on a mindset you don’t like. Still, I didn’t need to tell you that did I? It looks like half the posters on here have already told you that.

  48. Moderated as well?

    Oh dear, a very similar trait to the site you despise.

  49. Well, your command is my wish darth wenger. The article in question is Barca’s gone away, seems like the fans have too, or are Arsenal going to tell us more porkies?

    Moderated as well? Yes, well, if you had read back through this site, you would have seen that we have suffered a number of attacks whereby a tiny number of people have posted vast amounts of anti-Wenger articles purporting to be from lots of different people (if you see what I mean). And then there were the plagiarists who simply copied articles out of other blogs and posted them here. all a bit daft, but disruptive. So we introduced a moderation policy – first item is moderated. And we get rid of copied articles and ban people who appear to be writing under a number of different names or email addresses. (And the process is sophisticated, and we have had all the debate about this and mulitple ISPs. And there is an article about pros and cons on the pages).

    I could go on, but we are on different sides of the fence. You decide. If you think I’m a hypocrite, fair enough. You won’t be the first.

  50. hartwick, simon – see the thing is, on le-grove, when the insults get out of hand you see the blog authors step in, yet to see Tony do that, despite some people here describing one of the LG authors as a bi**t and such! That aside, there’s usually no discussion on here, its mostly posters agreeing with Tony’s pro-Wenger posts! I like Untold, its a sort of antidote to what I get on LG mostly, but these posts, humourous or not, having such a wild go at them, are leaving an increasingly bitter taste, and by the looks of things, a lot of your readers also read LG. Don’t mistake the posters on Le-Grove for the authors, you don’t see me hurling insults at the authors here simply because someone made a childish comment.

    Kudos to you though, for not moderating differing opinions. Hope it stays that way.

  51. Thanks for releasing my comment.

    So back to it, you based a whole article on this comment:

    ‘A Grover told us yesterday that he went down from 46,000th on the waiting list to 16,000th, take note Ivan, the warning signs are there, Arsene may leave you with the legacy of no fans, add that to the thousands that are renting theirs out, you might start to see a pattern emerging. BEWARE!’

    Which nicely corresponds to a comment from someone in the post from the day before:

    Stevie: June 9th

    ‘Morning all

    Just noticed I am now 16,200ish on the season ticket waiting list, when I joined the list 4 years ago I was number 45,000ish – A hell of a jump up the list in 4 years, what happened to the other 30,000.

    I also had a call in April offering me a Club level ticket, when I said I wasn’t on the waiting list the young kid (who called me mate) said that didn’t matter as they were contacting all previous Club level ticket holders….. what happen to the wait list?

    Note to Ivan – you can spend as much money as you like putting up pictures of past Arsenal stars around the stadium but fans will vote with their feet if you don’t replace these past stars on the pitch and recruit new stars for us to watch.’

    A bit different from:

     Le Grove stated 30,000 season ticket holders cancelled their season tickets
     The club will go bust

    Tony, I’m not sure if you are a season ticket holder, I’m going to assume you are. Did you not notice the gaps all over the stadium this season? Is that not a warning sign? I think that was the point of the comment you’ve completely blown out of proportion.

    The legacy of no fans isn’t in the literal sense, it’s in the sense that Brian Clough was a legend and look what happened there.

    For me, Geoff is merely pointing out that Arsenal shouldn’t get complacent with the fans as that’s a rocky road to nowhere.

  52. Darth Wenger as far as I understand English the message that Le Grove gave was bending the message from that poster. Geoff never told in his article that it was over 4 years time as you come to prove.
    It is a bit of the way they do their thing. Whenever they can tell somehting bad of the club they will do this. And they leave away the things that make the message not so bad.
    So someone new coming to the site and just looking at what this Geoff said could think that Arsenal are in deep trouble. And they are not as only some 2000 people dit not renew.

    But Geoff made it look as if it were 30.000 people not renewing this season. Or at least he did nothing to change that impression. And he knew it was not 30.000 in one year. So it could be that he accidently forgot to mention the time schedule but do you believe that yourself? Was it deliberate or an accident? I read it almost every day, don’t comment as I am banned, and I really cannot believe he accidently forgot to mention that it was over several years that he had gone down.
    And also : if 1 poster over here tells such a thing, how can you be sure he is not telling you lies? You just go on and believe it and spread the message the next day, no you change it to make it look worse, and put it in an article.

    And the people who read this message just pass it further as The Truth because Geoff said it on Le Grove.

    Noticed that he did mention the fact how much money Arsenal have received from the renewels but I didn’t see him writing in his article that only 2000 not renewed and not the 30.000 he had said in his former article.

  53. Hopefully last word on this…

    You guys from Le Grub like Le Grub…

    Us guys on Untold like Untold…

    You guys on Le Grub have ways of doing things over there which I do not fancy so I personally left.

    Untold is it for me so it is where I as many others choose to stay…I could care less about whatever is posted on that site… If you don’t like the business on this site simply remove it from your favorites list. As well, be truthful in your mission and others of us who choose to visit will say nothing but positives.

    Good bye for now.

    PS the truth will set you free while an agenda will burden you!

  54. Darth Wenger,

    Your hatred for the boss shines clear and through. If Tony has him as Lord Wenger you have him as Darth Wenger. Wenger is not Arsenal but even a low life like you would admit if he had any grey cells that Wenger has improved the club no end in the last 14 years. If you think Arsenal were a bigger club pre 1996 than post 1996 you will be as blinkered and stupid as your name suggests. No one is forcing you to read this blog. Cheerio.

  55. Hartwick:
    to give you a personal example:
    I check goonernews.com all the time to check new Arsenal articles.
    This gives me links to articles, I don’t have Le Grove or Untold in my favorites.
    Now should I avoid clicking on an article’s link just because it’s posted on one or the other?
    Should I stop reading Untold’s articles because of one or 2 I don’t agree with?
    Now i just feel pity for you that you actually suggested it. You’re just a fascist hiden behind your bunker ready to shoot on anyone not agreeing with you and generalising statements.
    As you just wrote “last word on this”, I’ll have mine. And this will be on the side note that the only reason you wrote your comment is to have the last word. I’m not fed up with Tony here, why should I boycott all Untold because of it? hartwick, you’re the reason why we stand against this. Because you can’t even see how wrong you are. Grow up.

  56. AJ: not one line he wrote was about AW.
    Why do people keep interprating stuff?
    It’s not because his nickname is DarthWenger that he doesn’t recognise what Wenger did well. Contrarily I would think.
    It’s not because we talk about what he does bad that we don’t see what he did well.
    Why do people keep putting words in people’s mouth rather than just asking?

  57. Darth, several things. After getting home last night and finding your first two emails I did release them as you note – and I also thought I would write to you explaining a little background to the issues and debates, on the grounds that I suspected you were not familiar with this site and its history.

    It might be a coincidence but I have noted this morning that my email bounced back. Of course it could be your server is down, but it could be you supplied a false address for the email. I mention this not as an accusation, but as an example of what we are having to deal with here – all sorts of methodologies being used to create disruption to our site.

    The essence of the argument between myself, and some readers of Untold, and Le Grove, is that Le Grove remove comments that don’t agree with their standpoint or argument, and then (even worse) take some comments by people who argue against them, and change them, to make the reader him/herself look silly.

    Then, as I have mentioned before, some people who are supporters of the Le Grove point of view, adopt multiple personnas to argue against us here. (I would not argue that this is done by the owners of the site – but as these people have been uncovered it is clear that they are also posters on Le Grove, in favour of their point of view).

    I am totally in favour of Le Grove existing – life would be less fun without them – and I have had perfectly amicable email exchanges with them, and indeed even offered to meet them prior to a game last season, although that came to nothing.

    But since I disagree with their way of doing “business” on the site, and their view of Wenger, I amuse my little brain by finding ways to poking fun. People sometimes call the occasional articles childish, and criticise the use of nicknames (although others do find some of the names we use for other slightly amusing) but it seems to me nothing more than a bit of fun. I am sure the owners of Le Grove are having fun too – so everyone’s getting a laugh. I don’t know if you got the literary allusion to Grub Street or not, but there is little depth to the pieces I write.

    I would have thought that the moment I start comparing someone from a web site renamed Le Grub, and start using a PG Wodehouse character who is one of the great comic characters of 20th century literature, then somehow the notion would have got through that this is meant to be amusing and is written in the spirit of being amusing.

    But even if not, if you look back through the history of Untold Arsenal you will see that we have persistently introduced humour (particular irony and satire, but with the occasional belly laugh too) in our conversations. Trying to make the story one in which I am seriously suggesting that Le Grove tell its supporters to adopt a uniform along the lines of brown shirts really is stretching the issue a little far I think.

    Of course Geoff was pointing out that Arsenal should not get complacent. But equally of course I was mucking about.

    As to the issue of numbers in the ground. Yes I have 2 season tickets and my partner and I are there at the home games. Yes I see empty seats, and yes we have discussed this before on this site – including the official Arsenal analysis of empty seats, the issues AISA have raised about it. I have also written at length about my situation, and that of my friends. I won’t repeat it, but in summary, I live in the Midlands, my parter lives in Cardiff. Getting to a home match can be a logistical nightmare, and my partner doesn’t make many mid week games. I missed a game not because it was snowing in London, but because it was snowing in the Midlands. I missed a game because of a wedding.

    And we are utterly committed. Think of the person who is well-to-do and a season ticket holder, but doesn’t mind missing some games. He misses some games so what?

    The analysis shows that our empty seat ratio is similar to other big clubs with large season ticket sales.

    All of this has been covered on the site before. That’s not to say that you have to go and read the site before commenting, but a little bit of background research will show there is some sort of method in my madness. And when there’s not, there’s always Walter and Phil to keep things on a more sensible level.

  58. That would be a bit too pedantic walter don’t you think? I mean, if you had to clarify, on your piece about Spain and Del Bosque for instance, the facts making you state that their coach only has Cesc there as Xavi’s sub, or that Cesc hates sitting on the bench as you claimed, it takes away the ‘fun’ of the article, the essence of the whole thing! I could as well use what you wrote in your article to spread the idea that Cesc is only Xavi’s sub on that Spain squad, which may or may not be true, but as far as I can tell, there hasn’t been any statement to that effect from Del Bosque or the RFEF. I hope you get what I mean, you shouldn’t be like the HSE, overzealous in protecting people from everyday incidences.

    I’m like Ivory above, I get Untold from arsenalnews.net, and as long as its published there, have every right to comment on any post I come across, whether I am in agreement with it or not. So hartwick’s comment was a bit childish, as well, if LG blocks comments that oppose their posts its also quite improper, but only if they’re comments put across in a mature way! I’ve never experienced this, and I frequently have opinions conflicting with the author’s/poster’s views.

  59. Walter, Geoff was talking about a waiting list, not about season ticket holders leaving their seats. As far as I am aware you have to pay a fee to remain on the waiting list for tickets. The article in no way intimated that 30,000 people had given up their seats.

    It is also pertinent to mention that seats were still being sold on the 10th of June, access to the exact renewal figures wasn’t out. All people knew was Arsenal were frantically trying to flog club level tickets and spare season tickets have been exchanging hands across plenty of web forums. Again, you might not know that as you’re probably not a season ticket holder.

    If you’re banned from posting over there, what does that tell me? That you’re probably the same as the childish posters above.

    AJ, I’m not sure which part of my 3 comments stated that I hate Wenger? A bit of an odd tangent to go off on. Maybe it’d make you feel better if I hated Wenger because then you could dismiss the facts I’ve laid down before you? I would probably guess that I was actually supporting Arsenal pre 1996, where as possibly you weren’t. We’ll never know, but that type of comment generally only comes from someone who has only known one regime.

    Hartwick, same to you, I read plenty of sites and I have no affiliation to anyone. Perhaps if you don’t like the business of Le Grove, you should tell your author to stop writing about them. Mind you, there wouldn’t be a thread as impressive as this one if you were just writing normal articles, would there?

    Tony won’t tell you that though.

    All I wanted to do was ascertain the facts, I’ve done that and it seems this whole article was an extreme misrepresentation of a statement made on another site, with the sole aim of defaming a ‘rival’.

    Poor show lads.

  60. My terrible crime on Le Grove was to write a sentence that said: “that if all the Arsenal fans would be like some here(=Le Grove) and I would be Cesc I would be leaving as nothing seems to be good at Arsenal”.

    Yes maybe not the most brillant of comments ever made in history but I think it is far less insulting than calling our own players something like Denilshit.

    Then people turned against me and said some insulting things and I couldn’t understand why. But then I noticed someone had changed my comment and made me look foolish.

    When I reacted to this and asked to explain this they told me to shut up because I was not suited enough to be a fan and told me to leave.

    When I wanted to tell them that I thought this was maybe the best I noticed that I was banned.

    And I have heard other people who experienced the same thing over there. At first I didn’t think it was possible that people would do such things but after my own experience I wonder how many actually have got the same treatment like I did.

  61. Darth Wenger,lot of people on Cultured left foot have been ban because they were going against the mood on Le Moan”.If you say anything too Positive you are ban.They insult player after player.
    The same blog who insult (2 season ago) Song saying he was crap (calling name)and should in the championship at best and how he could have a “special talent visas”(even so he has french nationality as he played for france youth team) and now praise him full stop.I dont mind people say one player is not good (i m not a big fan of Diaby) but insult them on daily basis make them not much better than Arsenal News Review write by the donkey Pyle Palmer

  62. Lord Gunner, no doubt banned because they were all positive right?

    I can see some of the posters from ACLF on here and I can see exactly why they wouldn’t be welcome on Le Grove.

    Ole Gunnar, Shottah Gunner and Terrence McGovern have been abusive on here and I’ve read their regular attacks on ACLF which seems to be a breeding ground for hateful people.

    I notice that QoS posts on both sites and is positive, yet for some reason, her comments are allowed to stay? Maybe because she debates like an adult? Have you ever thought about what you’re saying? People are banned for being positive, so only negative people post. So where would be the debate if everyone agreed with each other? How do they manage so many more comments than all the others if there is no debate?

    On the Song point, I only see praise from one of the authors. Geoff still doesn’t like him.

    Anyway, I feel like I’m cheer leading for a site I rarely comment on.

    Just think about how warped your perceptions are because they go totally agains the facts.

  63. Hey GOONZ,

    Yes it would be excellent if you did boycott Untold. What are you fighting against anyway? I am merely someone who believes as does a majority with a perfectly excellent manager who is running circles around the rest of the world’s football.
    I am not the editor however I have authored here before. Put your money where your mouth is and write an article about what you are fighting against… Maybe Tony will approve it? I tell you this this crowd will read it and make comments appropriately.

  64. Hartwick: for the boycott of Untold bit, where did you read this again? See above.
    What am I fighting against? Extremists and Stupidity. And I’ll always stand for Fairness and Justice. If I had to write something about it, an article wouldn’t be enough I’m afraid.
    And I’m obliged to say I have a real job, I’m not a journalist, and I wouldn’t have enough spare time on my hands to satisfy your curiosity.

  65. Darth Wenger,
    I can prove it as I have taken a few screen shots of the page after my comment was changed. Not when it was not changed off course because who could think that they would do such a thing.
    But I made the screen shots to keep them and to ask a third party by a mail, if he thought I was highly offensive towards someone and to ask what he thought of the whole thing.

    Now, I don’t know if I have it still on my computer somewhere but doubt it to be honest. It is from a few months ago.

    But I can believe you when you say you don’t believe it. Trust me, I also couldn’t believe it when it happened at first.

  66. I clearly wrote I wouldn’t stop clicking on links, whatever site they are on. Whatever reason you have for telling me I should, I don’t care. I explained my reasons for doing so. SEE ABOVE.
    Finally, this blog is not a private club and I don’t ploy under terrorism either. But if that’s how you feel I’ll just ignore you.

  67. Tony & co.- Sad to see you guys cant handle criticism properly. I’m a die hard fan of arsenal. And for me Arsenal is more important than Arsene Wenger (though i’m a big fan of Wenger as well). And I.ve been reading Untold Arsenal for many months now and i’ve respected this site for its truth and sensiblility in its article. I’ve read Le Grove also and i know they publish stupid stories and how foul mouthed they can be. But what this article has done is that it has brought this site down to their level. Today, unfortunately, i feel as if there’s no difference between this site and Le grove.

    To all- C’mon guys, you are fighting as if you all are supporting different clubs. We all support Arsenal. its a shame to see all the supporters fighting like this. Just because we have a different opinion on certain topics doesn’t mean we’re not arsenal fans.

  68. I found the print screens back, Darth Wenger. So I can prove every worth I have said if you want.

  69. Darth Wenger,

    Yes. The 2 guys who write Le Grove are retards, and for the life of me I can’t understand why anybody reads their nonsense. I don’t. Haven’t since I read my first post by them. Every now and then I’m made aware of something they write. The season ticket thing was idiotic but it was nowhere near as retarded as them ripping the club for paying off debt instead of buying players. Talk of the blind trying the lead the sighted.

    I personally have no appetite for engaging them because I think they’re worse than spuds. I can’t understand why anyone including Tony (for whom my regard is great) engages them. Just makes them feel important I can imagine. It’s quite clear that they’re self- aggrandising, one of these two actually said he knew for a fact that Wenger reads their sh1t every morning.

  70. Ole Gunner, I have a feeling you do read the site and probably every day.

    You’re complaining that people give them press, yet I always see you talking about them on ACLF and pretty much any article that is anti-Le Grove across the web.

    On the Arsene Wenger thing, tongue in cheek.

    For all their stupid stories, you all still read them, you all still comment on them.

  71. Darth Wenger,

    I should feel insulted that you have me down as a Le Grove reader but no worries I’ll allow you that fantasy.

    On ACLF I don’t stop remarking that I don’t know why people keep banging on about Le Grove.

    I’m commenting on this article because it’s funny, and very very effectively rubbishes a very stupid claim by a very stupid man. I’m commenting on the article because I’d easily comment on just about anything Tony Attwood writes.

    Tongue-in-cheek or head-in-arse. I choose the latter.

  72. Well walter, you don’t have to prove that, I’ve seen it done before, and though I have to say its quite sad and I feel sorry for you, its also a bit funny to a bystander like me. If you e-mailed Pedro he’d probably let you back on. I do agree with the ban however, a comment like that would obviously start a war on the comments, and for the sake of blog calm you would have had to be banned. I’d expect Tony to ban me here if I made comments that would have everyone here going at me. Also, in my view, one of the worst things you can possibly do is call other fans ‘non-fans’ for whatever reason. Branding youself a bigger fan is irresponsible and highly insulting to others. As Darth Wenger says, debate/argue in a responsible manner and you’ll never get banned.

  73. “And I’ll always stand for Fairness and Justice” Ivory Goonz what are you on, this is a blog, not a play.

    How can you stand for “Fairness and Justice” and defend Le Grub, the Communist website. The website that bans people for no apparent reason, and even edits comments to make people look stupid. I would not put that past Geoff, I believe what Walter said.

    And Pat, Ivory, Darth and the rest of you Grubbers you are all chatting dross. I have debated and disagreed in a reasonable manner and being banned. When he did it the first time I was shocked! I really could not understand what I did wrong.

    and Dark Prince Grubber, exposing the lies proprogated by another site is no big thing. If this site has been lowered in your estimation then don’t read it anymore stick to Le Grub. I don’t read Le Grub at all anymore and I really pass through Untold but I have nothing against Tony but an acute dislike of biggoted Geoff.

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